Newbie 2004: Trash Panada Hour. Redux! GAME OVER

[votato]

damn, i was really looking forward to playing scum

[votato]

VOTE: elmo for ruining that opportunity

[votato]

Hola, also had some mafia history in other places. Have never played a mafia game which lasted this long tho. I don't get the vote for Votato so VOTE:

gibus

this is known as the RVS, or Random Vote Stage, where people vote for silly reasons to get the game started, and then we gradually progress to more serious posting as we get a few bandwagons going.

hi gibus! good to see that youre unscathed.

pedit: im on to you, brass.

[votato]

haha i scum, suq it!

[votato]

pbf=play by forum

[votato]

VOTE: feathers for being overly cautious, and for not having a profile picture. a picture is important for name recognition and associating you with your posts!

@elmo, i haven't forgotten about you. once RVS ends im gonna get you lynched. mark my words.

[votato]

PBF should stand for Play by Face.

Protip!

what does that even mean?

You play by typing into a face.

anyone willing to bet that brass is not a boomer? Ill give odds on this. Definitely a boomer empty-nester.

[votato]

and if you need id be more than happy to provide you with pictures. for your profile, of myself, of whatever you want.

[votato]

haha theyre already starting to trust me. this should be easy.

[votato]

shit wrong thread, please ignore

[votato]

elmo is trying to get me killed now that im voting for her. what a trash panda!

[votato]

elmo is trying to get me killed now that im voting for her. what a trash panda!

elmo is a nickname for brass right?

nope, elmo teh azn is the mod of the game. she threatened me earlier, and now shes falsely placing votes on me. shes out to get me. its because im on to her and know shes scum.

[votato]

whats worse than what?

[votato]

No, the day ends when a majority is reached or at the deadline. Random voting ends whenever serious votes start, usually after a couple wagons develop. VOTE: gibus

[votato]

Gibus is correct

[votato]

You shouldn't claim your role unless you have to to save your life or catch scum. Sometimes to save someone you know is innocent. Don't give the mafia information. If they can figure out who the town power rules are and kill them, they'll be in a really strong position

[votato]

gibus moving your vote that much without letting people respond is just spamming the thread.

[votato]

mafia is a game of probabilities. everything is probabilistic. The reason you get a bunch of wagons and posts and arguments going during the day-phase is so you have content and interactions to evaluate. You look at people's thought progressions and interactions with other players, and how they move their votes. All of that gives you clues. And yes, its unlikely to find scum on the first day. But its important to get people to express their thoughts so that on day 2 you can evaluate their thoughts in combination with the "flips" - the people who died. An SE might be able to be more helpful. The point is though, its important for town that everyone contributes, posts, votes, shares their thoughts, and interacts with other players.

Also, apparently lynching scum on day 1 actually lowers the win percentage for town. That might not be true in newbie lobbies though.

[votato]

we are already closing in on 3 days. have you figured out who is scum yet?

[votato]

well ideally you progress towards finding out who. My point though is that since we have no content so far, it would be really bad to have a deadline in 36 hours. you should share your thoughts and vote based on them. its ok to be wrong, but sharing your thoughts is good to get the game moving, and is a way to help convince others that youre town. if you decide youre wrong, you can always change your mind later.

@lilith, why hop on the gibus wagon?

[votato]

Wow, okay, not lurking. This feels like the landmines I was talking about, I was just putting out guesses. I voted you earlier because you asked me what pbf meant, it's a silly reason since someone explained rvs voting is usually non serious at first. I stuck with it because you're on my sus list, and I heard mafia are more likely to switch votes easily so I didn't want to be seen that way. Seems like in this game people get suspected either way though..

but why is she on your suspect list? mafia do change their votes more often, but this early in the game its more ok to. its ok to change away from an RVS vote, since it wasnt serious to begin with. Also, its ok to change your vote so long as you have reasoning for the change. Don't worry about stepping on landmines. Some people might think you're scum for doing it, but you'll learn, and stepping on one or two probably wont get you killed. Don't worry - I think you're town. But as a townie, you dont need to try to look like town. Just act naturally and go scumhunting. Scum have trouble blending in because they cant naturally be towny. You can, since you're town. By artificially trying to look towny youll look artificial. And thats actually scummy. Dont worry about trying to "look like town". Just try to find the scum and people will realize that youre town.

[votato]

Okay, thanks, that makes sense. She was just on my 'sus list' because she haven't posted as much content. I don't really know that many ways to tell who the mafia are, just some tips I read. Anyhow I was just sharing thoughts and don't have a lot of solid ideas rn, but I guess I suspect lilith a bit less now. I'll change my vote to

VOTE: Gibus

then, he's my most sus for now. I think the paranoia is getting to me already heh.

if you're voting someone, its expected that you generally scum-read them. The question is why exactly you scumread them. what did gibus say that set you off?
and its a little bit too early to really tell how active people are. Lilith has posted more than ironcat, formerfish, and lilililili (who hasnt posted at all). Why single her out for being inactive?

Again, don't be too discouraged or nervous: im prodding you to try and get you to think through and process, not because I think you're that scummy.

and lilith is an SE. I dont think that shes trying to tell us that shes inexperienced.

[votato]

we are already closing in on 3 days. have you figured out who is scum yet?

How are we on day three? Are you being sarcastic?

the game started thursday night/friday morning. The end of three real life days (the proposed deadline) would therefore fall sunday night/monday morning. i guess we restarted so maybe monday midday. still, thats very close.

who is lilith defending? what isnt fair? i guess i could see why you might see that lilith is not being very patient with the newbies, but i dont think she's being unfair. i might have missed something.

[votato]

haha im super dyslexic or something. i read that as "I do. That's not fair." or something. anyway i dont see lilith as defending anyone. Just seeing something she didnt like and asking questions to clarify.

[votato]

I'm convinced that at least one of lilith/Freddiethelady is town.

why?

[votato]

Suspicion list:
1. Lilith
2. Freddie
3. Feathers
4. Gimbus
5. Votato

No strong reasons atm, mostly based on them feels

This is simply a list of people who are active. Not a good list

[votato]

VOTE: Iamironcat

[votato]

Looking for a replacement for lillili

I'll do it

Spoiler: My Response

Elmo.

[votato]

Paranoia, poor logic, a scum list that's too long, no reasoning. You can scumread me for that if you want

[votato]

let's hear it

[votato]

wait no! bring back the mp4!

[votato]

so if everyone posted youd suspect everyone? i disagree. I dont have any very strong scum reads yet. I cant yet tell if ironcat is very noob or scummy. But i get noobtown vibes from feather, gibus, and freddie.

[votato]

mod said that scum were revealed in a PT. that suggests to me that there were masons in the prior iteration. if they are still the same mason pair, then theyd figure out pretty quick that the scumpair were the same and that they knew who it was already.

[votato]

hence my town reads on gibus and feathers lol

[votato]

Do you disagree?

I think you're posting on the wrong account. Please quote all this into your iso

[votato]

also the things you guys town read me for are very easy to fake as scum

[votato]

oh nevermind. Op just doesn't reflect that you repped and i forgot. My bad

[votato]

Well you're scum, why not start there?

[votato]

thats not a waste of a night kill. thats a super useful role for late-game. as town generally you dont want anyone claimed because it helps scum PoE who town PRs are.

[votato]

if mafia know who the masons are they arent shooting VTs.

[votato]

yeah but stop publicly guessing who the PRs are. its against your wincon as town.

also, gibus is noobslipping, not scumslipping. could be scum, but i think based on my experience with gibus in another game that noobtown is more likely.

[votato]

and i still think copykat is scum

[votato]

I think Votato is a townsperson as well since pretty early on. They've (what pronoun do you use btw, votato?) been very active, giving pro-town advice (personally they really helped me know how rvs/voting should be done and to form my thought processes), not afraid to make clear stances, and I don't really feel like they're pushing any kind of agenda - they've mostly been helping clarify stances/thought processes or resolve disagreements.

btw: you can use he, she, or it for me. just please never use they.

[votato]

VOTE: copykat. i agree with brass. its mostly gut, but copykat seems pretty opportunistic hopping on the major wagon, putting it to L-1 without saying anything. I also see nothing in copykats case about scumslippng. Not a strong case against copykat, ill concede, but worth pressuring. I still dont like ironcat, but that might just be due to language barrier.

[votato]

gibus, just accept that outing town PRs is bad for town and move on. this discussion is not productive at all.

[votato]

scum

[votato]

town: gibus, feathers, votato
likely town: brass, freddie, formerfish
null: lilith
possible scum: iamironcat
scum:copykat

its very unlikely that the felines are the scumpair and that i've solved this early, but as a dog person it would bring me great pleasure. i would totally buy brass distancing or bussing here.

[votato]

no, hes saying that since you have no one pocketed you have no one you want kept alive. youre willing to kill anyone.

[votato]

i wouldnt say paranoia is alignment indicative (AI). seeing scum everywhere means youre doing a bad job scumhunting, which either means youre doing a bad job of being town or youre scum. ideally scumlists are similar in length to the actual scumteam. so in this setup, ideally you have ~2 scumreads. this is still early in the game, so its ok to have too many or too few, so long as you have reasons behind your thinking, and you explain your reasons. gibus, you havent explained any of your thinking yet. most people really havent explained much tho

feathers, those bullet points are helpful, but for vote changing they dont mean multiple times in a row. they just mean over the course of the game the person will change their minds and their though progression will seem inorganic.

[votato]

VOTE: copykat
you missed that one at least.

[votato]

VOTE: copykat. i agree with brass. its mostly gut, but copykat seems pretty opportunistic hopping on the major wagon, putting it to L-1 without saying anything. I also see nothing in copykats case about scumslippng. Not a strong case against copykat, ill concede, but worth pressuring. I still dont like ironcat, but that might just be due to language barrier.

i meant that i dont see any merit in your case about gibus scumslipping, to clarify

[votato]

i dont think people will think youre scum for using words wrong. in elmo's first posts there are some helpful links to the wiki that should help explain some jargon. L-1 = 1 vote away from a lynch. hammer = the vote that causes a majority and hence a lynch.

[votato]

just adding a blank line between paragraphs should do the trick. we are spoiled by modern word processors.

[votato]

@votato, can you explain why you think gibus is newbtown based on this other game? I read some of his posts there and he comes across as .... surprisingly un-newb there.

oh i missed this. im not sure if i can, since its ongoing. i agree that he comes off as newbie-er here, so could be playing it up to get brownie points.

i agree that ironcat is being really strange. but some of it is definitely due to language barrier. i also really dislike people who are so formally logical, so it could be a personal bias thing on my end.

[votato]

ironcat is clearly non-native in english. fluent, but idioms, etc. dont seem to come naturally. i just think some of the subtlety from tone, etc. that most people can generally pick up on might be lost.

and my english is trash.

[votato]

in the last game i was in with lilith, she staged a big day 1 fight with her scumbuddy to distance. It read a lot like her fight with fish here. A silly reason to argue, a way overdone fight, and then a really sudden resolution.

[votato]

in the last game i was in with lilith, she staged a big day 1 fight with her scumbuddy to distance. It read a lot like her fight with fish here. A silly reason to argue, a way overdone fight, and then a really sudden resolution.

And you think this would be a strategy I’d repeat after it failed pretty definitively in G&R?

yes. What makes you say it failed? The vigs all hitting town say it worked.

[votato]

copykat seems to have done a 180 here

[votato]

You've reversed on gibus and now you're sheeping my reads. Please elaborate reasoning on your reads

[votato]

in the last game i was in with lilith, she staged a big day 1 fight with her scumbuddy to distance. It read a lot like her fight with fish here. A silly reason to argue, a way overdone fight, and then a really sudden resolution.

And you think this would be a strategy I’d repeat after it failed pretty definitively in G&R?

yes. What makes you say it failed? The vigs all hitting town say it worked.

I mean it wasn’t a good long-term strategy because on D2 people noticed that we basically never interacted again.

My resolution to this argument was “I thought formerfish was being a huge asshole to me for no reason so I was an asshole back, turns out it wasn’t meant for me so he wasn’t being as big of an asshole as I thought, but I still think he’s needlessly being an asshole.”

a) the playerbase is weaker. B) you can say "i wouldn't do that again" c) I'm the only person who was there to see that fight, and maybe you assumed i wouldn't notice

[votato]

ironcat kinda depends on fish. does scum!ironcat pick an early fight with fish?
If fish is scum, I could see an ironcat/fish scum pair

Why? Whoever has an early fight with someone somehow increases the chances that they are scum partners if one of them is scum? Also ironcat has a strong vote on fish, which won't be optimal if they were scum partners. What if a wagon started against fish? Ironcat can't unvote without suspicion and if fish does get hammered, mafia would be losing.

"bussing" (throwing your scumbuddy under the bus) is a pretty common tactic. an early vote on a scumbuddy can help to distance you.

[votato]

There are a couple of people attacking each other. Say if one of them turns out scum, wouldn't we immediately suspect the attacker?

If someone leads a lynch on scum, I think it's natural to assume that the people who lynched scum are town because they wouldn't want to lynch their own teammate and would instead try to defend their teammate from being lynched.. Bussing subverts the natural assumption so we can no longer assume that scum would always protect their teammate from being lynched.

There's various ways to look at the wagons. Generally Scum do bus on this site, however, in a newbie game there are only 2 so bussing day 1 is not generally a good idea especially early in day 1.

well yeah bussing is unlikely, but there could easily be a staged fight

[votato]

hopefully fish starts contributing more soon. Would like to try and sort them out

Have you not been able to get a grasp on me yet? You could, hell I don't know, talk to me? Ask a question of me? Break down my reads and why I've sorted people the way I did.

You say that you need more from me but I don't feel like you've engaged the content Ive posted so far.

id love to get a grasp on you

[votato]

Fish you think im too sure of my copykat read? What makes you say that I'm sure?

[votato]

I think 295 best represents my thoughts

[votato]

You've addressed some posts I've made, but never 295

[votato]

except the language barrier thing. And that wasn't even about you

[votato]

You've addressed some posts I've made, but never 295

do you only read my posts if I address/quote you specifically?

i read through the entire ISO. you stated some reasons but thats different than explaining a thought process. its gonna take more to convince me, but maybe you can just convince me going forward by being more towny.

[votato]

VOTE: copykat. i agree with brass. its mostly gut, but copykat seems pretty opportunistic hopping on the major wagon, putting it to L-1 without saying anything. I also see nothing in copykats case about scumslippng. Not a strong case against copykat, ill concede, but worth pressuring. I still dont like ironcat, but that might just be due to language barrier.

the reason i voted you is not because you pressured gibus or unvoted. its because you didnt state reasoning for your vote which made it seem very opportunistic. and then i didnt like your ex post reasoning for the vote. you liking gibus' answer seems like you're just backtracking after getting called out. from the beginning it was clearly not a scumslip.

maybe you honestly just saw something that wasnt there, which is why im saying just go on playing and maybe youll do something to convince me you arent scum. your narrative around your voting patterns seems less likely to me than the alternative that i present. you havent addressed my thinking at all. your narrative is parallel and mutually exclusive, but you havent explained why i should reject my narrative and accept yours.

[votato]

lilith could you link me to some of your town games?

[votato]

I don’t have any completed towngames in the past 4 years. Do you want some of my towngames from when I played before?

sure. i guess you just dont roll town since returning?

copy: thats not a good attitude. in this game, people are gonna suspect you and vote you. most of the time theyll be wrong to do so. but giving up doesnt solve anything.

[votato]

You keep saying you scumread me and you don’t offer any reasons related to actual content that I have posted. You don’t ask me questions about my thoughts or try to engage - it feels like you’re trying to keep your distance and not directly interact with me even though I’m one of your strongest scumreads. Town strongly scumreading someone wouldn’t do that.

you arent one of my strongest scumreads. its just gut. its probably just bias from GNR.

[votato]

I'm cool with where my vote is. I feel like there's lots of noise from Kat but not much else. Feeling good about it.

Ok, you care to comment on anything else, or are you good with that being your contribution given everything else that has been going on?

I feel like people might have been a little too fast to trust Feathers. Still not sure about you.

Ironcat and Lilli is my best guess at a TvT argument if there is one.

Votato I'm comfortable saying he's either town or got me pocketed hard.

I don't know about Freddie at all legitimately forgot he was in the game

dont worry, im definitely town babe, im not trying to manipulate you at all. are we still on for later tonight?

[votato]

the horn is 100% real

[votato]

My girlfriend does have Aunt Flo so, yeah, for sure

BS. this is the internet. there are no girls, and no one has a girlfriend.

[votato]

it isnt string, its just that my horn is bedazzled. and its a horn, not a carrot. dont listen to the fake news media telling you its a carrot.

[votato]

UNVOTE:

I think I let myself get emotional. We will need to sort votato prior to lylo though.

pretty sure we need to sort everyone. I feel like you are backtracking again. What are your current reads?

[votato]

so you had a townread on me when you were voting me but now you're not sure so you unvoted me?

[votato]

so you had a townread on me when you were voting me but now you're not sure so you unvoted me?

I had a town read on you.

There were a series of posts where I explained my vote on gibus and I didn't think you were making a good faith attempt to understand my side of things. I thought you could be scum.

After I calmed down I realized that my "scum" read on you was likely an emotional response so I unvoted.

Looking back at your ISO I still see some townie things but I have lingering doubts now

wishy. washy. why would you vote someone you townread? and now youre saying that your vote was pure OMGUS? you arent exactly making a great case for yourself here.

[votato]

hmm. this isnt good. where are the people? what do they think about formerfish and lilith?

[votato]

VOTE: copykat. i agree with brass. its mostly gut, but copykat seems pretty opportunistic hopping on the major wagon, putting it to L-1 without saying anything. I also see nothing in copykats case about scumslippng. Not a strong case against copykat, ill concede, but worth pressuring. I still dont like ironcat, but that might just be due to language barrier.

VOTE: copykat. i agree with brass. its mostly gut, but copykat seems pretty opportunistic hopping on the major wagon, putting it to L-1 without saying anything. I also see nothing in copykats case about scumslippng. Not a strong case against copykat, ill concede, but worth pressuring. I still dont like ironcat, but that might just be due to language barrier.

the reason i voted you is not because you pressured gibus or unvoted. its because you didnt state reasoning for your vote which made it seem very opportunistic. and then i didnt like your ex post reasoning for the vote. you liking gibus' answer seems like you're just backtracking after getting called out. from the beginning it was clearly not a scumslip.

maybe you honestly just saw something that wasnt there, which is why im saying just go on playing and maybe youll do something to convince me you arent scum. your narrative around your voting patterns seems less likely to me than the alternative that i present. you havent addressed my thinking at all. your narrative is parallel and mutually exclusive, but you havent explained why i should reject my narrative and accept yours.

so you had a townread on me when you were voting me but now you're not sure so you unvoted me?

I had a town read on you.

There were a series of posts where I explained my vote on gibus and I didn't think you were making a good faith attempt to understand my side of things. I thought you could be scum.

After I calmed down I realized that my "scum" read on you was likely an emotional response so I unvoted.

Looking back at your ISO I still see some townie things but I have lingering doubts now

wishy. washy. why would you vote someone you townread? and now youre saying that your vote was pure OMGUS? you arent exactly making a great case for yourself here.

In all honesty, i cant decide if copykat is just noobtown 9r scum though. I need more content from that slot to properly evaluate. Interesting that of all the reads of all the people you chose that one, fish. Im continuing further and further down the road to fish and lilith being the scumpair. Or at least one of them.

[votato]

Why Lilith? PoE?

poe is part of it. Theres near zero content here, so its a bit hard to judge. Copykat is independently scummy. Lilith and fish are scummy together. Fish is doing some gambit allegedly, so probably shouldnt lynch there today

[votato]

i am NOT a donkey!

[votato]

I have a horn. None of the donkeys in that video have horns

[votato]

that puts copykat on L-2. Nauci how do you reconcile your top 2 scum reads scum reading each other? Are we just bussing hard? Pretty meh catchup, speaking of iioa

[votato]

that puts copykat on L-2. Nauci how do you reconcile your top 2 scum reads scum reading each other? Are we just bussing hard? Pretty meh catchup, speaking of iioa

Did that start as of page 14?

I don't count anything as bussing unless there was a viable lynch wagon on it—did they successfully get each other to -2?

did what start?

as i said in the post you quoted, it put copykat to L-2. yes.

[votato]

that puts copykat on L-2. Nauci how do you reconcile your top 2 scum reads scum reading each other? Are we just bussing hard? Pretty meh catchup, speaking of iioa

Did that start as of page 14?

I don't count anything as bussing unless there was a viable lynch wagon on it—did they successfully get each other to -2?

did what start?

as i said in the post you quoted, it put copykat to L-2. yes.

I don't think y'a were scum reading want other by page 14 which is as far as I've caught up on this thread

could someone do me a favor and translate this to english?

[votato]

here is the game i was referencing with lilith: https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=82849

[votato]

Isn't tuxedo mask copykat? Also there's two votes listed on tuxedo

[votato]

Welp, skimmed through the thread last night and realized at the end I thought I had replaced into a different slot. This sounds dumb and is and my excuse is that I thought I was replacing into the newbie slot. I work during ET 9-5 more or less—will do a more detailed read tonight.

I'll take the blame for that one....My bad....I can move people around in the role order if it makes you feel better....

Lol it’s my fault for not reading carefully and no one’s fault that this game has had so many replacements.

Yeah I’m in brassherald’s slot.

isnt it elmo's fault that there are so many replacements? she isnt cracking the whip hard enough.

[votato]

that doesnt address the question raised, which was fair. it does seem to be a double-standard

[votato]

@mod: are you opposed to giving us an extra day or two on d1 since we're still missing one replacement (I think) and I need to read through 25 pages?

Right now we need no replacement and I'll give you an extra day. I'm not giving more due to the game stalling out and having to prod half the player list.


If you need to send a pm saying V/LA I won't prod you then as an official one.

[votato]

i dont follow, fishy

[votato]

Hey guys I super care about everyone being caught up and knowing what's going on in the game. lets work together and lynch those evil scum. i really hope town wins this! dang gone it those scum are baddies. i hate them.

[votato]

freddie's play is pretty similar here. i chalk it up to being new rather than being scum. if shes scum it will become clear later on. theres no need for a day 1 lynch either way, but im thinking its a town slot.

[votato]

eggs, plain.

[votato]

hmm i havent gone back to re-read the ISO on gibus. but my memory doesnt ping me. If people are really serious about that wagon ill go reread, but I think its not an optimal lynch for today. If gibus is scum i fully anticipate being able to figure it out with a high degree of confidence well before lylo. i think my lynchpool atm is copykat/tuxedo or ironcat/osuka. I could maybe be persuaded about lilith (maybe), or formerfish (probably not today though).

[votato]

hmm i havent gone back to re-read the ISO on gibus. but my memory doesnt ping me. If people are really serious about that wagon ill go reread, but I think its not an optimal lynch for today. If gibus is scum i fully anticipate being able to figure it out with a high degree of confidence well before lylo. i think my lynchpool atm is copykat/tuxedo or ironcat/osuka. I could maybe be persuaded about lilith (maybe), or formerfish (probably not today though).

Uhh... Maybe look back, his iso isn't deep, and why not actually participate in the discussion instead of punting having to read him?

im very lazy. fine. ugh.

[votato]

im very lazy. fine. ugh.

I mean we're only calmly discussing who among us deserves to die today, nothing super serious.

exactly. and you want me to put in effort for something so trivial? this is really unfair, mom! I always do the dishes, and you never appreciate it.

[votato]

Spoiler:

I mean I really hope you're a townsperson, and I'm sorry for voting you for so long if you are, but I just want to be sure.

Why are you sorry?!
I wouldn't be surprised if the mafia kept you till LyLo because of your trust.

a bit odd.

Spoiler:

My read list right now from town to scum

[gibus, votato, feathers]

[CopyKat, ironcat]

[brassherald, Freddie]

[Formerfish, lilith2013]

I'm colourblind and I had to look up hex codes for the colours lol

noted.

Spoiler:

My read list right now from town to scum

[gibus, votato, feathers]

[CopyKat, ironcat]

[brassherald, Freddie]

[Formerfish, lilith2013]

CopyKat -> His initial townread on votato made sense. I like how he hopped on to my wagon when I made an unclear post which could've been seen as a scum slip without hesitation. He hasn't been anti-town in any of his posts. He hasn't been here for long so with the current information I put him in blue.

ironcat -> His paranoia in RVS strikes me as town. I don't agree with his recent list (#368) but his ISO seems to me like he is trying to help as town (apart from his fights). I didn't know about "bussing", and since I scumread fish, I townread ironcat a little bit more.

brassherald -> I'm neutral because he hasn't posted much and I don't like how he voted copykat for hopping on the wagon (I found copykat's reason sensible) while he hopped onto my wagon because my posts seem "off".

Freddie -> I have't seen much of him. Hence neutral.

Formerfish -> #227 for scumread.

lilith2013 -> I didn't like your interaction with fish. You didn't mention any of his posts in your recap (#351) and you accuse him of first throwing shade on your slot and then WhiteKnighting you, neither of which I think he did (I didn't see #412 when I posted this, I take this back. I now put you in yellow.). I also disagree with #372, where you hop on the copykat wagon because he hopped on my wagon (sensible reason).

i dont particularly like the reasoning behind the copykat TR

Spoiler:

Fish, what do you think about copykat?

could easily be testing the wind to see if he needs to bus.

Spoiler:

VOTE: CopyKat (Tuxedo Mask)
Back at L-2

decides it is time to bus

Spoiler:

I don't feel good about where my vote is now because -REDACTED-

really odd. and then he does actually unvote.

i dunno, i could definitely see a gibus/copykat scumpair (i forget who is in the copykat slot now), but gibus' posts are somewhat better now. when they arent just fluff. a lot of them are fluff. or just a series of references to other posts with insufficient context. like his most recent post. i had to go look up those posts manually to find out they were referring to copykat. Gibus: what is your current read on the copykat slot and why?

[votato]

freddie is confscum by the way

what makes you say that?

Is this close enough to "Why me" for us to fry him?

I bet you're hoping it is.

Shit like this is precisely why you’re confscum

how is that remotely AI?

[votato]

you should use the "preview post" function to see what your posts will look like before posting.

[votato]

freddie's play is pretty similar here. i chalk it up to being new rather than being scum. if shes scum it will become clear later on. theres no need for a day 1 lynch either way, but im thinking its a town slot.

I don't see it, but I didn't live that game. Only going by what they said in their iso, which seemed more probing and present. Can you explain the similarities here?

@everyone that is townreading votato: why?

VOTE: votato btw

They seem at ease and comfortable, making jokes, having fun, but pushing reads and going after things that grab their interest. They also haven't done anything I find objectionable.

i see freddie progressing and becoming a better contributor than in 1997. she is doing more to have reads, press people, etc. i think inexperience is clearly showing, but i dont think its scummy.

[votato]

I tried that once and I lost the post. Is there a special way to preview the post?

you just hit the preview button. the post will be displayed above, with the editing box below.

[votato]

[votato]

I won't be lynching Freddie today. Yes there have been some bad posts. Freddie needs to do a better job explaining her thoughts. But i know her well enough that i think i can read her pretty well. Anyone on that wagon when it flips town gets major scum points for not listening to me and backing off. It sucks that brass replaced out. I trusted him and felt like i could work with him. Wave seems off in his own little world. If tuxedo isnt happening today i can compromise on osuka

[votato]

interesting. you dont think ive "gone after" copykat?

[votato]

VOTE: copykat. i agree with brass. its mostly gut, but copykat seems pretty opportunistic hopping on the major wagon, putting it to L-1 without saying anything. I also see nothing in copykats case about scumslippng. Not a strong case against copykat, ill concede, but worth pressuring. I still dont like ironcat, but that might just be due to language barrier.

VOTE: copykat. i agree with brass. its mostly gut, but copykat seems pretty opportunistic hopping on the major wagon, putting it to L-1 without saying anything. I also see nothing in copykats case about scumslippng. Not a strong case against copykat, ill concede, but worth pressuring. I still dont like ironcat, but that might just be due to language barrier.

the reason i voted you is not because you pressured gibus or unvoted. its because you didnt state reasoning for your vote which made it seem very opportunistic. and then i didnt like your ex post reasoning for the vote. you liking gibus' answer seems like you're just backtracking after getting called out. from the beginning it was clearly not a scumslip.

maybe you honestly just saw something that wasnt there, which is why im saying just go on playing and maybe youll do something to convince me you arent scum. your narrative around your voting patterns seems less likely to me than the alternative that i present. you havent addressed my thinking at all. your narrative is parallel and mutually exclusive, but you havent explained why i should reject my narrative and accept yours.

so you had a townread on me when you were voting me but now you're not sure so you unvoted me?

I had a town read on you.

There were a series of posts where I explained my vote on gibus and I didn't think you were making a good faith attempt to understand my side of things. I thought you could be scum.

After I calmed down I realized that my "scum" read on you was likely an emotional response so I unvoted.

Looking back at your ISO I still see some townie things but I have lingering doubts now

wishy. washy. why would you vote someone you townread? and now youre saying that your vote was pure OMGUS? you arent exactly making a great case for yourself here.

In all honesty, i cant decide if copykat is just noobtown 9r scum though. I need more content from that slot to properly evaluate. Interesting that of all the reads of all the people you chose that one, fish. Im continuing further and further down the road to fish and lilith being the scumpair. Or at least one of them.

oh really? heres a post quoting several other posts all of which were interactions with copykat. i tried to engage with that slot on several other occasions too.

[votato]

Spoiler:

VOTE: copykat. i agree with brass. its mostly gut, but copykat seems pretty opportunistic hopping on the major wagon, putting it to L-1 without saying anything. I also see nothing in copykats case about scumslippng. Not a strong case against copykat, ill concede, but worth pressuring. I still dont like ironcat, but that might just be due to language barrier.

VOTE: copykat. i agree with brass. its mostly gut, but copykat seems pretty opportunistic hopping on the major wagon, putting it to L-1 without saying anything. I also see nothing in copykats case about scumslippng. Not a strong case against copykat, ill concede, but worth pressuring. I still dont like ironcat, but that might just be due to language barrier.

i meant that i dont see any merit in your case about gibus scumslipping, to clarify

copykat seems to have done a 180 here

You've addressed some posts I've made, but never 295

do you only read my posts if I address/quote you specifically?

i read through the entire ISO. you stated some reasons but thats different than explaining a thought process. its gonna take more to convince me, but maybe you can just convince me going forward by being more towny.

VOTE: copykat. i agree with brass. its mostly gut, but copykat seems pretty opportunistic hopping on the major wagon, putting it to L-1 without saying anything. I also see nothing in copykats case about scumslippng. Not a strong case against copykat, ill concede, but worth pressuring. I still dont like ironcat, but that might just be due to language barrier.

the reason i voted you is not because you pressured gibus or unvoted. its because you didnt state reasoning for your vote which made it seem very opportunistic. and then i didnt like your ex post reasoning for the vote. you liking gibus' answer seems like you're just backtracking after getting called out. from the beginning it was clearly not a scumslip.

maybe you honestly just saw something that wasnt there, which is why im saying just go on playing and maybe youll do something to convince me you arent scum. your narrative around your voting patterns seems less likely to me than the alternative that i present. you havent addressed my thinking at all. your narrative is parallel and mutually exclusive, but you havent explained why i should reject my narrative and accept yours.

UNVOTE:

I think I let myself get emotional. We will need to sort votato prior to lylo though.

pretty sure we need to sort everyone. I feel like you are backtracking again. What are your current reads?

so you had a townread on me when you were voting me but now you're not sure so you unvoted me?

I had a town read on you.

There were a series of posts where I explained my vote on gibus and I didn't think you were making a good faith attempt to understand my side of things. I thought you could be scum.

After I calmed down I realized that my "scum" read on you was likely an emotional response so I unvoted.

Looking back at your ISO I still see some townie things but I have lingering doubts now

wishy. washy. why would you vote someone you townread? and now youre saying that your vote was pure OMGUS? you arent exactly making a great case for yourself here.

VOTE: copykat. i agree with brass. its mostly gut, but copykat seems pretty opportunistic hopping on the major wagon, putting it to L-1 without saying anything. I also see nothing in copykats case about scumslippng. Not a strong case against copykat, ill concede, but worth pressuring. I still dont like ironcat, but that might just be due to language barrier.

VOTE: copykat. i agree with brass. its mostly gut, but copykat seems pretty opportunistic hopping on the major wagon, putting it to L-1 without saying anything. I also see nothing in copykats case about scumslippng. Not a strong case against copykat, ill concede, but worth pressuring. I still dont like ironcat, but that might just be due to language barrier.

the reason i voted you is not because you pressured gibus or unvoted. its because you didnt state reasoning for your vote which made it seem very opportunistic. and then i didnt like your ex post reasoning for the vote. you liking gibus' answer seems like you're just backtracking after getting called out. from the beginning it was clearly not a scumslip.

maybe you honestly just saw something that wasnt there, which is why im saying just go on playing and maybe youll do something to convince me you arent scum. your narrative around your voting patterns seems less likely to me than the alternative that i present. you havent addressed my thinking at all. your narrative is parallel and mutually exclusive, but you havent explained why i should reject my narrative and accept yours.

so you had a townread on me when you were voting me but now you're not sure so you unvoted me?

I had a town read on you.

There were a series of posts where I explained my vote on gibus and I didn't think you were making a good faith attempt to understand my side of things. I thought you could be scum.

After I calmed down I realized that my "scum" read on you was likely an emotional response so I unvoted.

Looking back at your ISO I still see some townie things but I have lingering doubts now

wishy. washy. why would you vote someone you townread? and now youre saying that your vote was pure OMGUS? you arent exactly making a great case for yourself here.

In all honesty, i cant decide if copykat is just noobtown 9r scum though. I need more content from that slot to properly evaluate. Interesting that of all the reads of all the people you chose that one, fish. Im continuing further and further down the road to fish and lilith being the scumpair. Or at least one of them.

[votato]

almost 1% of the thread is me engaging with copykat. There are more posts where I continue to engage with the replacement.

[votato]

i guess there really arent any. maybe you're right. tbh i do feel pretty disengaged from this game. maybe i should do more to hard push the slot. but i dont feel like anyone else is really hardpushing anywhere either.

[votato]

The scumreads on me and fish didn’t really go anywhere though, like he didn’t actively engage with either one of us or even copykat really to further develop the reads, and he didn’t really “go after” anyone in terms of hard pushes, so it seems he is playing the game at arm’s length. I think wavesarc made some good points - I don’t see a lot of pushing or gamesolving in votato’s posts.

This is the summary.

votato says he is scumreading people but makes no attempt to engage with them directly to develop his reads, he even says he needs more content from copykat to develop a read but then doesn’t try to get more content. So he’s not even trying to develop his reads. I don’t think this requires a particularly high skill level to do. If he was scumreading me and fish, why didn’t he question us about things he found scummy? If he says he needs more content from copykat, why doesn’t he interact with that slot further to try to understand copykat’s perspective and develop a read there? These are all things that town!votato would be actively doing in order to develop his reads and progress through the game.

wrong. those are things that motivated!votato would do regardless of alignment. as you say, theyre easy to do. easy to do as either alignment. the fact that im not doing them speaks to motivation, not to alignment. and lots of other people arent doing those things either. why only call me out lilith? and if this was a problem for a while, why only call me out after wave votes me?

[votato]

well you're making two separate claims here. 1) i havent hard pushed anyone. 2) im not engaging with my scumreads.

1) no one is doing this one. it cant be that everyone not doing this is scum. it would be fine to make this argument by itself, but its getting conflated with 2.
2) i havent done much to engage any particular scum read. but i have made attempts to engage with quite a few different people. let's not take the "im not doing this at all" from point 1 and apply it to point 2. i have tried to engage a few people, but ill freely admit that my efforts have been somewhat limited compared to some other towngames. this isnt what my scum game looks like though. compare my posts here to my posts from GNR day 1 after my exchange with farside. its probably similar content.

[votato]

Why Lilith? PoE?

Lilith and fish are scummy together

Why are they scummy together?

that was wayyyy too long ago for that question to be super relevant. but it was their interactions. I didnt buy their fight as TvT. They seemed to be agreeing about a lot of reads, and I didn't particularly like their reads. that suggests orchestration. Fish has since said that his posts were somewhat intentionally scummy as a gambit. If anything that makes lilith even more scummy since her posts agreed with someone who was being scummy on purpose.

[votato]

Okay.

VOTE: Osuka

hi there.
we noticed some unusual activity coming from your account, and wanted to confirm that the quoted post came from you. if this post came from you, please log into your account to confirm. if not, please provide the last four digits of your social security number.
thanks

[votato]

and nude photos. please send nudes too.

[votato]

Standing to the side of an argument and announcing scumreads on players without directly engaging with them is exactly the scumtell I’m looking for

i guess i must be scum in most of my day 1s then.

[votato]

My SO is trying out to be on Jeopardy this week, which is like the most exciting thing ever for a trivia addict, so I'm going to prioritize helping him prepare for that over MS through Thursday

My buckets are as follows:

Town - Formerfish (most scum hunting in the game, IMO, even if I don't agree with their conclusions sometimes), gibus

Prob town - votato (Past the IIOA phase of their posts and before all of the replacements, the 2nd most scumhunting participant here)

WIFOM Hell - Osuka/Ironcat/lililili (I will explain this on Day 2), Lilith (as many posts that ping me as town as ones which ping me as scum and I've resigned to just sorting on Day 2)

Need to Reinvestigate based on FF/votato's reads plus new content - Freddie, CopyKat/Tuxedo (rn I still think this is scum, and also that it would be the most informative lynch we could do)

and lastly, the strong scum read where there hasn't been much in the way of new data to convince me otherwise -

VOTE: Wavesarc/Brassherald

I'll check back around midnight if I've time to re-investigate as remarked above or if it's absolutely necessary that we consolidate on someone other than the Brass slot

P.S. We are just NOT lynching votato today kthxbai

this is a good list. i strongly believe freddie to be town. I have far more knowledge of freddie than anyone else (no, not what you're thinking), so I hope that, at least for today, we can put more weight on my read. I was townreading brass pretty confidently, but wave im much less sure about. I'd be very happy with an osuka lynch, that slot has not gotten better with age. Tuxedo is still pretty scummy too. I could compromise on a wave lynch, but its second best.

when i say theres no hardpushing, i mean there's no one doing big wallposts with post-by-post analysis, no one is really hard tunneling (except a few people getting in spats, but those hardly count, it isnt game-related substance thats upsetting people).

speaking of, lets keep it civil and try to work together here, shall we?

[votato]

from those options the only one im really down to lynch is wave. im a bit concerned over lack of associations for day 2, but its an OK compromise as long as i can blame fish if it flips green. VOTE: wave

[votato]

@fish, yeah sure, it does. and gibus could be intentionally playing up the noob play to buy sympathy. but i've seen similar from gibus in other games.
@nauci. ok, i buy it. my vote is already there.

[votato]

osuka sinks further into the scumpile. calling people's posts shit is neither a way to win them over nor to prove a case. seems like some AtE bullshit, except it isnt remotely appealing. what are your thoughts on brass/wave here osuka?

[votato]

im not very convinced that tuxedo flips scum though. i think thats not a bad lynch because of information gained (there are a lot of meaningful interactions around that slot), but i dont know if its worth the chances of a mislynch there. that slot currently resides solidly in nullread limbo for me

that isnt the slot i asked about tho

[votato]

i think a proper committed read from you would be helpful in sorting you osuka

[votato]

lilith, lets compromise on this brass/wavesarc lynch? you can lynch me some more tomorrow. itll be hot.

[votato]

I dont feel that I've been hard pushed by lilith. Except last night

[votato]

actually i think this will flip town. theres no reason to continue a weak push on a player known to be town as scum. although i also am not convinced of the merits of the slot. im down to speedwagon osuka or tuxedo. any takers?

[votato]

wait wtf is this hammer. no opportunity to claim or for people to discuss?

[votato]

are you fucking?

[votato]

wait no its not a hammer, he was already on the wagon

[votato]

im not on the freddie wagon. i dont want freddie to hang. freddie is town. i want osuka or tuxedo to hang

[votato]

do NOT send a screenshot. you cant quote or anything like that. you dont need to claim since no one has stated intent to hammer. a vanity wagon is one that doesnt have momentum, so basically wasting your vote on a non-wagon. also, are you feeling FF to know how foul he feels?

[votato]

well fish you did go fishing for claims pretty hard

[votato]

yeah osuka has continued to impress with his ability to be scummy.

freddie still isnt scum. yeah, its ideally not a slot we have around for lylo, but could not be more obvtown. we'd better fucking not lynch there tomorrow. we blew our free lynch. theres for sure scum in {osuka, fish} and honestly they could both be scum. but fish is probably still town even after those antics around the hammer. that was pretty clearly fishing for claims and info in a noob lobby where anything could happen. as town, really fucking bad play. like moron level bad. as scum, more reasonable, but still fuck you for taking advantage of new players.

[votato]

was a stupid hammer. i should have unvoted. if we lynch freddie tomorrow itll be even stupider. i wish you'd said you were gonna hammer. this was dumb. theres still a chance that wave flips scum i guess. but im pessimistic at this point.

[votato]

i hardclaim not scum. we will see who has worse reads wont we

[votato]

UNVOTE: just in case

[votato]

ive been saying that hammer was stupid for like 5 pages and all it takes is fucking votato of all people to say "was a stupid hammer", and THAT sways you? this is one of the great mysteries of the universe

he was being sarcastic

[votato]

read the second line of the post

[votato]

We aren't lynching Freddie. That was so clearly not scum play.

[votato]

Freddie's play clearly came from noobtown. The timing of the claim does not come from scum. She was obviously confused after your role fishing.
Also, what have you learned from your gambit? You said you'd have the game solved, but here you are going for blood on an obvtown slot.
Doc/jk should probably breadcrumb their target from last night in case they die.

There could be a jailkeeper who locked up either the target or the mafia executing the kill

[votato]

Wait a minute... that wasn't a cat!

[votato]

votato.solve = {Formerfish, osuka}

[votato]

votato.solve = {Formerfish, osuka}

We are past the point where posts like this are going to fly. If you want to try and progress the game naked solves and scum reads aren't going to do it.

Take a stance Vota, build a case. Your vapid play is becoming more and more apparent, you need to start showing substance soon.

oh unlike your fucking legwork here, which consists of "tell me why freddie shouldnt die"
thats neither a case nor a good lynch. ill make a case later. i already made a case against osuka iirc

[votato]

and fish the bar is higher for you. you said your gambit would give us a solve by today. where is the solve? or were you just scrambling because we caught you being scummy?

[votato]

my dick is pretty much always showing. and like i said ill make the case later. dont really have time rn.

[votato]

osuka, you are clearly being a dick and making it personal. stop being a dick. and yes, i mean that you as a person are being a dick, outside the context of this game.

also, at this point freddie is 100% town. i know her well enough to know that she's being honest here. she hasnt quite grasped this game, but shes trying. maybe constructive criticism or feedback would be better for both your emotional wellbeing, hers, and the game. i guess you're entitled to be a dick if you want though.

i guess ill effort tomorrow and say some things.

[votato]

i know her well enough to know that she's being honest here.

You'll forgive me if I'm currently shook over the accuracy of meta reads

its not merely a metaread based on one game though. i know freddie personally, and i think i can tell the difference between honest!lady and lying!lady here.

[votato]

that seems like a bad plan.

[votato]

Who wins at the end of that movie? Jerry Maguire.

Who had the correct idea, but was misunderstood and maligned by the masses? Jerry Maguire.

Who stuck to his guns through thick and thin finding not only true friendship, happiness, love and a family to see himself come out on top and silence all the haters? Jerry Mafuckinguire.

I think that clip is perfect for what I'm trying to do here. You guys keep being busy body sheep.

except people are sheeping you. if anything im jerry macguire, the only person defending freddie.

[votato]

Fish why are you just coaching his play right now?

I'm not.

And if I were scum with him why would I be doing it here and not in the scum PT?

because youre distancing because you are seeing the writing on the wall for osuka. which is also why you pointed that out looking for towncred

[votato]

@Formerfish: Do you still believe in your theory that Freddie was coached to claim VT? What did you think of Gibus's take on that? If you do still believe that, who do you think would have told Freddie to do that?

Yes. I have no reason to believe his beliefs over my own without evidence to say otherwise. Anyone. Literally anyone would have told him to claim in that time. It's the only thing that makes sense in the way that it happened.

Freddie for sure would have seen the numerous posts expounding on the multiple reasons not to claim, most of which was SOMEONE WAS ALREADY LYNCHED.

I refuse to believe a townie who very much wants to do good as a newbie is going to miss events that huge to create a situation that baffles the mind.

Additional shout out to Vota for trying to say I was role fishing in that whole thing and attempting to give Freddie a reasonable out by blaming me for their shit play. Koudos for that one. Must be your crazy previously unmentioned past and possible irl relationship with Freddie, that is an odd thing to hide, especially when we've talked about meta a butt load in this thread so far.

i prefer to separate my real life from the internet for the most part. thats why i was heavily implying a read that was stronger than just from our limited interactions on here. but you wouldnt drop it, so here we are. this is going to sound a bit harsh, so let me preface by saying freddie is intelligent. she just isnt cunning or strategic in the way that being scum in mafia requires. shes a terrible liar. she also doesnt really reside on the internet, preferring to live in the meatbag world, so a lot of subtlety the rest of us can pick up on from years of shitposting and being trolled by each other, she just cant grasp. her posts come from a place of being totally lost in this game. i guess some of that really isnt very harsh - it makes her a good person irl, but perhaps mafia isnt the place for innocent souls like hers

[votato]

effort incoming. please stand by

[votato]

ugh i kinda hate myself for doing this. sorry, long wallpost. theres a ton of fluffposting and shitposting in the iso, but here are some highlights.

Spoiler:

Hola, also had some mafia history in other places. Have never played a mafia game which lasted this long tho. I don't get the vote for Votato so VOTE:

gibus

this is known as the RVS, or Random Vote Stage, where people vote for silly reasons to get the game started, and then we gradually progress to more serious posting as we get a few bandwagons going.

Fine, VOTE: votato

you shouldn't flipflop like that makes you look flaky

VOTE: imironcat

that's very scummy
VOTE: freddiethelady

osuka's initial post unvoted and said "lemme get caught up." shortly thereafter, without being caught up, he drops another vote. this scumread developed really fast, and hasnt been remotely re-evaluated. in fact, anyone who defends freddie or questions osuka is scum in osuka's mind.

Replacement is a good suspect due to the whole issue of newbies replacing out of scum rolls in their first games.

ouch

this is disgusting

no it isnt. thats statistically true. interesting that FF and osu start shading each other. throughout the game they shade each other, but never vote or want pressure. seems like scum theater. more on this story at 11!

hahahah I was thinking to myself, ironcat reads as town before I realized that's my fucking slot

what a day

hmmm

Here you talk about yourself being killed tonight based off a random read from RVS within the first 10 pages.

Thats a lot of whatfuckingifs to check off to hit on the head. Hence why I mentioned that the idea that you would be the night kill as a puzzler.

Youre the person who thinks everyone is scum at first and we have to prove to you somehow that we arent, right?

Wasn't just talking about self but anyways.
It's easy to kill anyone who's town and I might be one of them. Mafia might either NK those who they might consider having a good lead or those who were accused by another town to set them up.
In this case, I used myself as an example for easy talking.

Not asking anyone to prove me personally that I'm not scum. Just talking about my process of elimination.

Also, you seem to be taking a lot of things personally - hence projecting them onto me.

fucking christ, I'd vote this if I weren't on this slot

wait what happened to that townread? (spoiler, the self-townread comes back later...)

I think ironcat was actively trying to get himself killed

again, i townread myself, but please ignore all the scummy stuff i see coming from my slot

My read list right now from town to scum

[gibus, votato, feathers]

[CopyKat, ironcat]

[brassherald, Freddie]

[Formerfish, lilith2013]

I'm colourblind and I had to look up hex codes for the colours lol

this is a pretty weird tierlist

IIoA

Fish has done and said some very questionable things over the last 3 or 4 pages but I struggle to see some of his posts as coming from scum

more shade, but doesnt press the issue

I maintain that the wave lynch was bad. Good chance it’ll flip town

at no point did you defend wave, and in fact there were a few posts where you called wave out. you said you needed to evaluate the slot and sort it, but never did. this post is as a result really bad. trying to get towncred post-flip when you never defended the slot prior to this.

Lilith could be scum but that’s a quick thought without anything concrete behind it. I’ll have to iso

this never happened either. you keep promising work, but haven't done anything to sort any slots except freddie (and me by association, and now apparently tuxedo for having the audacity not to sheep you).

you were a very solid townread of mine but the way you handled the lynch and what youve said since you hammered is very very offputting

again, FF is scummy, but am i going to pressure the slot? no. im gonna keep calling FF out but then maintain a solid townread.

scumteam is { freddie, 1{ lil, nausi, gibus } }

ive solved the game and youre all welcome

so basically your solve involves everyone except you and FF. and this was pre-flip, yet youre acting like wave already flipped town.

if freddie flips town, however remote that possibility, votato should be powerlynched the following day barring only the literal apocalypse

i can understand poor decision making in light of judgment day

yes, i should be lynched for being right. makes sense. also, for the record, your solve at this point is me and freddie. you think we are scum partners. so if freddie flips scum, you want to lynch me for being scum. but now if freddie flips town you still want to lynch me. thats what tuxedo is saying. and tuxedo is right.

that's a scum slip if ive ever seen one. in fact, I will bet that scum team is { tuxedo, { freddie, votato } } - the second member of which depends on the votato-freddie dynamic i explained earlier

this solve is based on freddie!scum, which is a bad read. then theres me!scum for townreading freddie. and now tuxedo is even more scum for the crime of questioning you.

tl;dr: osuka decided in post four of the iso that freddie was scum. since then theres been no effort to sort anyone else, other than me and now tuxedo for defending freddie, and FF as town for attacking freddie, despite pointing out a lot of scummy posts from FF. interestingly, despite saying theres a lot of scummy posts from FF, osuka never pushes at FF. looks like distancing.

[votato]

lol, FF and osuka complain for days that i dont make a case. i finally do, and they completely ignore it.

[votato]

78 was more or less RVS. as i recall it was either because gibus was voting all over or because gibus self-voted. it wasnt a serious scumread. it was about 40 pages too early for that. and yes i can definitely see osu and FF's interactions as scum theater. they keep shading each other, but when did either of them actually put any pressure on the other? they haven't voted each other, and every time they interact they fight and then immediately mutally townread again.

[votato]

Yup, you’re right. I’ll do better next time! Good luck everyone!

How is pressure voting sus? We need content from everyone before we lynch.

I'm curious about her thoughts on Fred after he claimed, people other than votato and FF, wave's flip, no NK.
I don't like #1308 because it looks like confbias at that point (he was scumreading FF & osuka for a while).

No, votato wasn't scumreading fish before the whole D1 lynch fiasco. Fish wasn't in his lynchpool for D1 at all. Votato only started putting fish into his scumpile after fish called freddie scum.

that's not true, i said ff and yourself could be scum

[votato]

Yup, you’re right. I’ll do better next time! Good luck everyone!

I forgot to talk about this one, just more "cluelessness" from freddie that I don't buy. Once again, multiple people straight up told her that waves was dead, they told her why it was bad to claim after the lynch happened, and then she keeps acting like she will be lynched.

Theres no scum motivation either. It's a fuck up. I don't see why it's ai. I'm pretty sure she thought she'd be night killed for claiming town, because she figured everyone believed her, and now her secret was out.

[votato]

Is this more of your super secret rl relationship that you know telepathically what they are thinking?

Haha that's honestly not very far off

[votato]

because she doesn't get the basic fundamentals of the game. This is a newbie game. Freddie played two games irl prior to this and repped into 1997 and is struggling to catch on

[votato]

i mostly started suspecting ff later. The gambit reeked to me

[votato]

And I'm not even sure how you consider yourself to be pocketed. You keep shading me while agreeing with everything I say, are you trying to gaslight me?

@votato: This doesn't seem like SvS to me, I don't think scum!fish would call out scum!osuka for inconsistency in his read on fish. Like there's no reason for him to call attention to his scumpartner like that.

Also @votato I'm trying to engage with you on your fish/osuka case, I'm interested in hearing your response to this.

except notice that no pressure was actually applied. Where were the votes?

[votato]

ff the chain of events is accurate. But there's a really simple explanation for why Freddie claimed. She fucked up. As scum there's no reason for her to claim there. It's a bad play and has no upside regardless of alignment. Occams razor

[votato]

And I'm not even sure how you consider yourself to be pocketed. You keep shading me while agreeing with everything I say, are you trying to gaslight me?

@votato: This doesn't seem like SvS to me, I don't think scum!fish would call out scum!osuka for inconsistency in his read on fish. Like there's no reason for him to call attention to his scumpartner like that.

Also @votato I'm trying to engage with you on your fish/osuka case, I'm interested in hearing your response to this.

except notice that no pressure was actually applied. Where were the votes?

I'm not saying that pressure was applied, I'm saying why would fish bring anyone's attention to osuka's inconsistent read on him if he didn't have to?

distancing? There was little risk involved given the focus was elsewhere. Why did you fight Maria in gnr?

[votato]

ff the chain of events is accurate. But there's a really simple explanation for why Freddie claimed. She fucked up. As scum there's no reason for her to claim there. It's a bad play and has no upside regardless of alignment. Occams razor

Just replace the word "scum" with "town", and get "As town there's no reason for her to claim there."

Exactly. Nai

[votato]

i want to lynch osuka. There is only one thing that would make me change my mind

[votato]

hmm i thought i was voting. see theres an easy fix though. VOTE: osuka.

your move

[votato]

fish. assume for a minute that im right about freddie. game out for me what town!me's solve should be, if not you and osuka.

[votato]

it seems that lilith and tuxedo are willing to work with me. it doesnt seem that youre interested in working with anyone.

[votato]

Freddie can be town here being propped up by Scum!Vota who is white knighting the shit out of Freddie. Freddie hasnt done anything that is going to shed light on Votas alignment.

I don't think this is true. I don't think scum Votato would double down so hard on Town!Freddie. I think this behavior would make more sense if they were scum together. But I don't think he would actively tarnish a fairly good standing in the eyes of most players to stop a mislynch.

why would i not tarnish a reputation to stop a mislynch? we get 3 mislynches. if im 95% sure that someone is town, ill do whatever i can to stop that lynch. town SHOULD do that. how about we try something here? why dont we listen to me, just for today. if we hit scum, then im right and myself and freddie are cleared. if im wrong we lynch me tomorrow and at that point it doesnt matter that we lose because you all are about to powerlynch me and freddie and lose anyway.

[votato]

I'm sure that Vota can provide for her whereabouts for the last 2 and a half days, just let him decode his notebook and he can go minute by minute.

i actually can. you're a cunt.

[votato]

i'm done with this slot, this HAS to be scum or i dont fucking know shit about shit

remember that you said this. you dont know shit about shit.

[votato]

i honestly dont believe that there are humans out there that are this fucking dense

[votato]

well i believe thats a hammer right? you guys are fucking yourselves by not taking a second to think throught what town!me might be thinking here

[votato]

I know, where do you hail from so i know to avoid it?

your mom's house

[votato]

well town fucked yourselves here. good luck surviving lylo tomorrow lol

[votato]

Fish and osuka, you should honestly be ashamed of yourselves. This is a newbie lobby and you have ruined the experience for at least three people (myself, Freddie, and tuxedo, plus maybe the others who replaced out... didn't brass say you were awful too?)

Seriously, you're a piece of shit.

[votato]

Please note lilith hopping on my wagon the way she did. And gibus conveniently disappearing. Probably still town though. I don't see any possible world where there isn't at least one scum in ff and osuka. I dont quite know how to convey my read of freddie because its based on a lot of irl knowledge. But look at her 1997 iso and you will see that its basically the same as here. And why didnt we mention our irl friendship? Because its none of your business. It has no game relevance other than giving us unique insights into reading each other.

Ff you really cant help yourself can you? You need to either stop being so condescending and rude, or stop joining newbie lobbies. Or ideally, both. Brass and feathers replaced out because of you. Tuxedo myself and freddie have all told you and osuka that youve made this game unenjoyable. I could say a hell of a lot more to you, but instead ill just say two things: you really belong in pittsburgh, and your mother was a hamster and your father smelt of elderberries.

My slot is town

[votato]

gg, thanks to all the replacements for making the game healthier and better than it was while i was there. sorry to everyone for my part in the early shitshow.