Newbie 2004: Trash Panada Hour. Redux! GAME OVER

[Tuxedo Mask]

Hello everyone, catching up as fast as my little mind can read. I like Votato so far (on page 2) for sounding natural and relaxed. Also pushing an Elmo lynch seems to be a recurring theme in their newbie games that I happen to agree with.

[Tuxedo Mask]

Yeah, it's a newbie game modded by Elmo. It's one of those games.

Newbie 1996 we can talk about thay since it's over.

Anyways on Page 9, I still like Votato and like Feathers too.

Think Lady, Gibus, and Ironcat are pretty dang scummy.

The rest I've placed in a tiny box labeled "Eh."

[Tuxedo Mask]

I'll steal this page top and

challange Ironcat

to a duel. You can pick weaopons and we shall fight at noon on the 6th day of the first phase.

Do you accept, you must bold yes or no.

Hey, was this a serious attempt at a Thunderdome?

And sorry, once the "eh" pool is done I'll move you there to have lots of space.

[Tuxedo Mask]

Hey, was this a serious attempt at a Thunderdome?

Last time you checked was gladiating a thing that could be done in newbie games?

When you find the answer to that question, take it an apply it to your own and you will have your answer.

Right, I still want to know what you were trying to accomplish with that.

[Tuxedo Mask]

Hey, was this a serious attempt at a Thunderdome?

Last time you checked was gladiating a thing that could be done in newbie games?

When you find the answer to that question, take it an apply it to your own and you will have your answer.

Right, I still want to know what you were trying to accomplish with that.

I was poking a scum read and trying to inject a little levity to my posts because multiple people were reading my words as super fucking serious ones and had been placing me in a certain box because of how they were misreading my words, so that was supposed to be more of a joke, which people still took serious.

Its a way for me to judge how people take me as well. I think scum would latch on to that more than town.

Fair enough. There does seem to be a playstyle barrier between you and other players. Is there anything you've seen as scum latching on this game? Sorry if it's been addressed already.

[Tuxedo Mask]

Sorry, my catch up is getting cut short tonight. On page twenty.

My FoS is on Freddiethelady and Ironcat.

Votato and Feathers are still town, and I'm tossing FF in there as well.

The rest I'm hoping to sort in the remaining pages.

[Tuxedo Mask]

Tuxedo "caught up" but contributed only the most cursory surface reads.

I expressly haven't caught up. I'm ten pages behind, and have only been giving my surfaces reads because I don't know what has and hasn't been discussed, for example, I have the quote of Ironcat's originally read list up because I was going to comment on how large their scum pool was. Only for them to clarify it was a range, and the ones at the bottom (or top?) were town.

Also

@Elmo I'm at L-2 I believe

Can we slow down the votes on me, so I can at least have time to give my thoughts?

[Tuxedo Mask]

VOTE: CopyKat (Tuxedo Mask)
Back at L-2

Why the pressure on the newbie? Kinda of a dick move to let him get his toe in the pool before beaning him in the nuts with the ball.

This post does not come from town

You’re either trying to pocket tuxedo or trying to defend a scum partner

alright nerds please don't lynch anyone before I have a chance to catch up here

UNVOTE:

Is Formerfish not coming from the same place as you when you replaced? Why is it okay for you to ask the game to slow down to catch up, but scummy for him to let me catch up?

[Tuxedo Mask]

Spoiler: things the caught my eye

Wow, okay, not lurking. This feels like the landmines I was talking about, I was just putting out guesses. I voted you earlier because you asked me what pbf meant, it's a silly reason since someone explained rvs voting is usually non serious at first. I stuck with it because you're on my sus list, and I heard mafia are more likely to switch votes easily so I didn't want to be seen that way. Seems like in this game people get suspected either way though..

This feels very genuine newbie town. To me, newbie towns seem petrified of two things, being wrong and being lynched. So the fact they are so open about their fear of doing something wrong with their guesses reads genuine to me.

So unless someone gets lynched Day 1, we’d have to wait 10 whole irl days for Day 1 to end? That sounds.. bad for town honestly. Stirs up unnecessary arguments and wagons, probably mislynch someone in the end instead of waiting the time out.

I kind of agree, but I don't have a clear idea. Can someone tell me how D1 lynch is not a purely probabilistic kill?
What qualities can you find in someone's posts that give them a TR? And why can't a good mafia player not replicate said qualities?

If townreads are necessary to find connections between people if they flip scum, how can it not be a case of WIFOM? If it is, won't a lynch always be a purely probabilistic kill?

I don't know if there is a separate thread for this post, so I'm posting it here.

The bolded feels awkward, like going out of their to show they don't know about scum PT.

VOTE: gibus when will RVS end?

Didn't like what Gibus was doing here, but that's well-trodded ground. This is not a method for ending RVS.

Hola, also had some mafia history in other places. Have never played a mafia game which lasted this long tho. I don't get the vote for Votato so VOTE:

gibus

this is known as the RVS, or Random Vote Stage, where people vote for silly reasons to get the game started, and then we gradually progress to more serious posting as we get a few bandwagons going.

Fine, VOTE: votato

you shouldn't flipflop like that makes you look flaky

VOTE: imironcat

This is pretty misrepresentative. Very clearly they aren't flip-flopping but had a misunderstanding, and corrected themselves when it was explained.

It's funny how freddie is saying that filiiping is a mafia move - like that's the last thing they would do.
That being said, if I get killed tonight, investigate Lilith. I have a FOS on them.
It might be possible they would put the blame on Freddie.

The assumption they would NK'd is strange, and ir pinged me as LAMIST.

Regardless of experience, I find ironcat's interest in finding scum in contrast to your disinterest (#223). You've provided nothing useful to town in your ISO other than a three player scumread (#212) with no stance on it immediately after criticising my three player scumread.

VOTE: Formerfish

I don't agree with this vote. I'm unsure how FF had not demonstrated scumhunting here.

I mean I really hope you're a townsperson, and I'm sorry for voting you for so long if you are, but I just want to be sure.

Why are you sorry?!
I wouldn't be surprised if the mafia kept you till LyLo because of your trust.

This is either very astute and forward-thinking or a slip from ideas in scum thread. I know that's not super helpful, but I keep fliping on what way I feel about it.

Hola TOWN FOLKS! o/

Who's the biggest suspect if copykat flips out town?
If they're indeed mafia, who would you suspect next?

This seems like a really strange question at the time it was asked, super unprovoked. Something can certainly wait till day 2.

fish, i had no read on you other than noting how explosive you were. i subconsciously decided i would trying to avoid saying something that might get that reaction out of you because the noise is useless. i joined the game for fun, but your posts and your arrogance makes me wonder if you did the same. i am not sure how to read you and further at the moment - so at the very least its distracting and frustrating to have to read through it.

This reads really scummy to me. FF is definitely the type of player scum would like to avoid, and then to just attack their playstyle as well seems to discredit them more than anything. I really don't like it.

Anyhow, this analysis got me sure of my scum reads. Lilith and Fish.

Lilith cheaply jumps on any "leads" she can find. Such as the copykat slip and how I'm "bussing" fishyfriend. It's clear that her playstyle is scum.

Fish has shown themselves as town but thanks Lilith, it's clear that their interaction shows he's in her chat as well.

That being said, copy kat is town and so are the rest apart from these two that I've mentioned.

Too bad I can't question them but, what Lilith is listed as doing is called scum hunting. This accusation seems super basless. I don't know what the thing about Fish means, and the certainness in my slot being town with no explanation seems really sus.

Okay now that's a level of rudeness which is both totally unwarranted and completely inappropriate for thew Newbie Games section. Inb4 the entire game derails over this kind of thing or we get 4 replacements. The irony of someone saying J"flooding the thread with your vitriol" or "Why the fuck do i want to talk to you if this is how you react to a miscommunication." after accusing them of cunting up a thread is

If you're worried about stuff like this derailing the game why bring it up again? Like lilith didn't seem to pay it any mind and ended things nicely. Then to just drag it up all these pages later seems off. I don't trust the intention behind this.

Overall reads:

Town

Formerfish:Asking questions, advancing the game, and trying to solve. Say what you will about their playstyle, they have made genuine attempts throughout to make things more accommodating and palatable to town. In a few games when a player comes in with a polarizing playstyle, scum seem to be those who harp on it most.
Lilith: They also seems really focused on solving, and their thought process is easy to follow. Very open to the town and trying to progress the game. They seemed to have dropped off the map though.
Votato: Had a strong read at the start, but she's fallen off. She keeps saying she wants more information from my slot, but she's still slaked in other areas of the game. Hopefully, this can help push them forward. (in the first draft of this I kept calling you they, sorry. And Sorry if I slip up and don't catch it.)

Outside Town

Feahters/[line]The Nazi[/line]Nausi: Feathers was painted head to toe in the town colors, and had them as a solid read throughout the game. Nausi has diminished it slightly with moves I don't agree with.
Gibus: Gibus had a scummy start to the day, with the masons and the spam voting. All really derailed and added chaos to the game. Over the course of the day, their posting has improved, and I've gotten some good town pings from them. However, tinfoil hatty, that progression doesn't always feel super genuine and get paranoia they're just being heavily coached in scum PT.

Somewhere Else

IamIronCat/Osuka: Ironcat was a weird slot, scum read them pretty heavily, but Osuka hasn't done anything objectionable. And since I can't question Ironcat about their posts, I'm okay waiting on this one to get more content from. Besides I have better reads for now...

Scum Bums

Brass/Waversac: Started off okay then completely fell off and then seemed pretty frustrated at being questioned. Any number of things could explain it, but them sitting on my slot from daybreak tonight doesn't sit well with me. Neither does their response to Former Fish. The replacement hasn't done anything, hoping to hear from them soon.
Freddiethelady: Has just been active lurking this entire game, letting town just steer itself around and get tied in knots. Something is keeping this slot from playing, and I have a feeling it's because they're scum that doesn't know what to do.

I'd vote Freddie here, but I have a poor grasp of where the vote count is at.

@Gibus and Osuka: I know Gibus said they put me at L-2, but by my count it was L-1. I do agree that progressing the votes on my slot to either of those is very different levels of pressure.

[Tuxedo Mask]

Okay, I gotta go, be back to address anything in a few hours.

[Tuxedo Mask]

@tuxedo: does your reads list rearrange at all once you factor in the things you maybe misinterpreted?

Are these misinterpretations in reference to what you said and Freddie being afraid of FF?

For you, I do see your side of things. I'm still not sure what you did is the best course of action, like what happened was over half the game ago. But you have different experiences than I. So I understand where you're coming from there.

As for Freddie, I'm reading their ISO now.

If I missed something else let me know.

[Tuxedo Mask]

Spoiler: Freddie ISO

Gibus seems too sloppy to be suspicious but it could be an act.

I’m suspicious that Lilith is a little more experienced then she’s letting on. I’m not sure why she jumped on the gibus wagon either. I’d love to hear an explanation since it could be AI.

I still don't think this has been answered. It seems like the start of Freddie's Lilith read, which is pretty rocky ground.

I’m trying to learn the distinction also. its like throwing darts at a wall. I think the simple answer is that scum will try to be as inconspicuous as possible. Paying close attention to what a person says and how they say can Give you subtle hints. I’m not good at this yet but a healthy dose of skepticism will help you start to weed out leading clues vs gibberish. It’s not rocket surgery but it does take some practice.

Applying your thought process here, have you uncovered subtle hints in what people are saying? And would agree that applying this logic to your own posts would read them as scummy?

Gibus you’re like a ping pong ball with your votes. It’s looking sloppy and thoughtless. At some point I’m going to ask you to justify that. Are you prepared to do that?

This is a weird question. Why not ask him to justify them now? This feels like you have clocked an easy push and are just holding back for an opportune moment.

Lilith hasn’t posted much lately, has she? I wonder why. Ive been suspicious of her without being able to collect my thoughts or any evidence (if in fact there is any) against her yet.

This happened 7 irl days ago, and over HALF the game ago. Yet they have still done nothing with this. Where is the evidence Freddie? Where are the reads?

So reading Freddie I don't find scum hunting, it is mostly excuses and questions about site stuff. There is very little pushes or curiosity. I also read through their ISO of Newbie 1997 and they feel very different there. For one, they replaced into that game and have nearly as many posts there as they do here. And in that game, they don't seem nearly as lost and unsure, constantly pursuing things and asking questions. This really feels like scum that doesn't know what to say.

VOTE: Freddiethelady

[Tuxedo Mask]

@Votato you played in 1997, how do you feel Freddie's play here compares to there?

[Tuxedo Mask]

freddie's play is pretty similar here. i chalk it up to being new rather than being scum. if shes scum it will become clear later on. theres no need for a day 1 lynch either way, but im thinking its a town slot.

I don't see it, but I didn't live that game. Only going by what they said in their iso, which seemed more probing and present. Can you explain the similarities here?

@everyone that is townreading votato: why?

VOTE: votato btw

They seem at ease and comfortable, making jokes, having fun, but pushing reads and going after things that grab their interest. They also haven't done anything I find objectionable.

[Tuxedo Mask]

maybe it's confbias but I feel like this was going for low hanging fruit

Can you go more in-depth on your town read of Freddie?

Freddiethelady - Just feels like newbtown to me; I think there would be much more detectable anxiety if newbscum

I do pick up on anxiety in their slot, their reason for ignoring Fish being a big one. I think they're getting an easy pass and taking it, there has been lots of stuff going on that they aren't engaging with and have actively put off developing their own reads for most of the game.

[Tuxedo Mask]

hahahah I was thinking to myself, ironcat reads as town before I realized that's my fucking slot

what a day

Can you explain what you town reading about Ironcat's posts?

gibus does not read mafia right now but I'd love to hear your reasons as to why freddie is town

What do you think of the defenses for Freddie raised? Also can you explain your scum read of Freddie? I see the vote on a post you call scummy, but that was a super early post. Anything else?

[Tuxedo Mask]

Hey Freddie, wanna answer the questions I addressed do you?

[Tuxedo Mask]

I agree that I've been inconsistent on copy's slot. On reading his ISO again (copy's newer posts included) I moved him away from blue and voted for him. The initial townread on him may have been influenced by his townread on me, and that was a naive mistake from my part.

Would you like to elaborate on that read? Why it changed, and what posts stick out?

[Tuxedo Mask]

Yes, those are quotes, but can you explain what makes them scummy?

So Frieddie was was just Prodging.

[Tuxedo Mask]

"Do you think that Formerfish would have hopped off of the wagon to attack the person who left the wagon just before him whether it was your or Lilith interchangeably?"

@nauci that was what I was trying to figure out. I explained why i unvoted ironcat and fishy immediately abandoned his suspicions of ironcat to vote me. i really didn't know what to make of that, except that he wasn't committed to his vote, or he and his scumbuddy were just trying to lynch anyone...i suspect a sloppy move like that it would be a newbie thing to do, but fishy is obviously not newbie so it leaves the alternative. am i missing something?

I think this is a pretty simplistic view of the game. Town is ignorant and paranoid, shifting focus, and constantly pursuing new leads is part of why I town read FF. Do you really think it is that simple to catch scum? That ScumFF would immediately abandon a lynch he wants because you moved off? Or is it more likely that Town!FF who has a lot less info, and don't actually know Cat's alignment, but only has suspicions would suddenly be MORE suspicious of your sudden abandonment of the wagon?

[Tuxedo Mask]

Freddie. There. Are. Questions. In. There.
Nice dodge though.

[Tuxedo Mask]

@Votato I'm Copy Cat.

[Tuxedo Mask]

i know im sus, its okay. its easy to pick on low hanging fruit isn't it especially when you subbed into the slot you did? copycat was pretty anxious

What's with this shade? You're also parroting what others have said, again. Do you scum read my slot? I don't see it in your ISO.

[Tuxedo Mask]

Freddie. There. Are. Questions. In. There.
Nice dodge though.

yes, i can see that. did you see my #888? i formatted it wrong. i thought you could reply in between the block quotes (from me)...if you open the spoiler, i do have some comments. i will be reposting it.

No, that's my bad. I apologize, it turns out I was the lazy one. I didn't think your answers would be in there.

[Tuxedo Mask]

and no, i definitely don't think finding scum is that easy. you seem to think it is though - youre picking on the new kid saying im clever enough to be scum....while i appreciate the comment, i think lots of people here can see youre just wrong on this one.

Hey, look at our join dates. I'm as new around these parts as you are. I'm taking other's thoughts into consideration, it's why I'm asking them to give me a more in-depth explanation into your slot. But I also want to be better and standing with my reads, so I'm not ready to drop this yet. Though the antagonism between us is something I'm not enjoying, so I'd rather that get dropped as we continue discussing.

I still don't think this has been answered. It seems like the start of Freddie's Lilith read, which is pretty rocky ground.


here are the comments i made when i messed up (sorry again!)
i was trying to sound clever. it was a really stupid comment that was sparked because of a misunderstanding of who was new. i honestly thought there mods would put one or two SE's with a bunch of newbies and i thought she might be one of them...boy was a wrong about the newbie to SE proportions. yes, it was a rocky start! i was trying to take the advice of a form that said (im paraphrasing) 'share your thoughts and don't be afraid of being wrong occasionally. it helps the game if you try to be genuine and explore your thoughts and observations.'

i've been trying to. i think confirmation bias is easily applied here because clearly youre less than impressed. ill get better at the rocket surgery asap!

justify now? as in this moment?

i don't know yet. i do like her. i like her questions and observations and i loved how she ate fried fish during her arguments with him. what say you @lilith? how can i engage you or anyone better?

1: Thanks for the honesty, the amount of SEs seems like a weird assumption to make. It's public knowledge. Why did it take you so long to say this?

2: I meant at that moment? Why not just as Gibus to justify his votes as he was making them, not saying you will later.

3: Well it sounds like you do know. Do you think that lilith being better at arguing than Fish is town indictive? Or just playstyle?

i know im sus, its okay. its easy to pick on low hanging fruit isn't it especially when you subbed into the slot you did? copycat was pretty anxious

What's with this shade? You're also parroting what others have said, again. Do you scum read my slot? I don't see it in your ISO.

was i shading myself? lol

im parroting people i think are right and faster to get to the point than i am.

No, you're shading me. Being "low hanging fruit" is not a defense of your actions. You're essentially scum reading me for scum reading you. Then you also throw Copy Cat under the bus, when it didn't even seem like you were scum reading them before. Who are you scum reading?

@Votato & CsGO guy I forget your name can you answer my questions about Freedie's slot?

I have more, but I gotta sleep because my SO is mad at me for playing in bed. Sorry.

[Tuxedo Mask]

Since you were reading it as part of catch up, Tuxedo, it should be particularly obvious that what Freddie said to Gibus was in the context of a very long RVS during which Gibus was hopping around a lot. Other players have even later commented that this was a good move to discourage the vote hopping so that the game could start doing serious votes and play instead and was one of the reasons that players were giving town reads of Freddie early on. Do you disagree with the timing context and the others' assessmentsor were you scanning back for quotes to cast as suspicious?

I do know the context. Gibus continued to RVS (shortly after) and, Votato in jumping with an actual explanation of why he should stop and Lilith's vote also helped cut those things out.

However, my main point was that saying "I'll ask later" and not just asking then felt weird. I don't see the town motivation for it, and asking him to justify it then would have been just as effective. Do you agree?

[Tuxedo Mask]

the rest of the post read: I didn't think my explanation was a 'sudden abandonment'...it took me days to come to that, i said that, and i didn't vote someone else...where as FF did. he just said 'freddie, youre sus cause you changed your mind'. is that how we role? that points to a lot of scummy people here - im newbie, he isn't. im being thoughtful. he shouldn't be given a get out of jail free card for that one, in my opinion.
and no, i definitely don't think finding scum is that easy. you seem to think it is though - youre picking on the new kid saying im clever enough to be scum....while i appreciate the comment, i think lots of people here can see youre just wrong on this one.

Okay, this was the last thing I wanted to address last night. Freddie when I say your unvote was sudden, it is because it was. Read the game and your progression on Ironcat, it isn't in this game. Maybe it took you IRL days to reach that conclusion, but we can't see or prove that. All we have to go on is what you posted. So to us, it is sudden. Very earlier on Votato said the best way for us to town read people is for them to play the game. When you're keeping everything back because you're scared of how it'll make you look well then it makes you look bad. Bad = scummy not bad = you suck.

Also, do stop using the newbie card on me. We joined at around the same time, and both only have one completed game. Something we replaced into late.

[Tuxedo Mask]

So essentially this just became about Freddie and Tux, because if freddies vote is on the bench when someone is voting him I see where this is going.

Don't mean to shit on your parade, but what do you think of Freddie's recent posts?

I'm torn because they're really leaning into the newbie pass other players are giving them, and their sudden verbosity is a hell of a 180 from their previous postings. Some of their answers don't sit well with me like suddenly hinting they've been scum reading Copy Cat.

However, many of their answers to my questions feel genuine. It's unfortunate it took so long to get them, but they aren't stretching to make things make sense. Just admitting cleanly to mistakes.

[Tuxedo Mask]

hahahah I was thinking to myself, ironcat reads as town before I realized that's my fucking slot

what a day

Can you explain what you town reading about Ironcat's posts?

gibus does not read mafia right now but I'd love to hear your reasons as to why freddie is town

What do you think of the defenses for Freddie raised? Also can you explain your scum read of Freddie? I see the vote on a post you call scummy, but that was a super early post. Anything else?

[Tuxedo Mask]

Okay.

VOTE: Osuka

[Tuxedo Mask]

Okay.

VOTE: Osuka

hi there.
we noticed some unusual activity coming from your account, and wanted to confirm that the quoted post came from you. if this post came from you, please log into your account to confirm. if not, please provide the last four digits of your social security number.
thanks

Hello,

a pleasure to hear from you. If you look into my recent activity you'll see this a natural progression of my reads. As I've interviewed other players, I've found many vocal supporters of Town!Freddie, but all those in favor of scum!Freddie have been silent. As for Freddie themselves, they've answered my questions and I've come away liking most of them. Now I am switching pressure to second scum read who has been dodging my questions. There isn't much time left you see.

P.S.
1234
I can also provide a credit card number and the three digits on the back, as well as my mother's maiden name.

[Tuxedo Mask]

Reality doesn't make sense anymore. Time is passing around me like a stream passes rocks at it's bed. And much like those rocks imma go lay down and sleep now. Nighty night.

Hey, seriously what do you think of Freddie's recent posts?

@Freddie, we do need scum reads from your slot. Time is running out.

[Tuxedo Mask]

Spoiler: how do I look?

[Tuxedo Mask]

I find it so weird that people can't follow the very simple evolution of voting and questioning my top scum read. Then after getting answers voting my other scum read who still hasn't answered my questions.

[Tuxedo Mask]

hahahah I was thinking to myself, ironcat reads as town before I realized that's my fucking slot

what a day

Can you explain what you town reading about Ironcat's posts?

gibus does not read mafia right now but I'd love to hear your reasons as to why freddie is town

What do you think of the defenses for Freddie raised? Also can you explain your scum read of Freddie? I see the vote on a post you call scummy, but that was a super early post. Anything else?

[Tuxedo Mask]

if you mean someone else's defense of freddie, you'll have to point out which one you mean because i might honestly have missed it

Votato and Nauci are the ones most prominently defending the slot.

i originally felt like ironcat had a natural progression of reads and a townie-ish tone. you realize i'm in ironcat's slot, right?

I do realize, which is why I thought the initial comment was odd. I came off kind of forced, especially since how far off from my read of Ironcat. So I asked you to justify that read, because if you did come to it naturally and not because of your role PM you should be able to do that. What posts did you find have a townish tone?

I find it so weird that people can't follow the very simple evolution of voting and questioning my top scum read. Then after getting answers voting my other scum read who still hasn't answered my questions.

What happened to your scumread on wave/brass slot?

It mostly came from Brass' departure and drop in effort. At the time of the initial read, Wave hadn't done anything, so I was waiting on them. Wave's recent posts have positively impacted my read of the slot. Their questioning of Votato seems town motivated.

[Tuxedo Mask]

I have to agree, I don't like the look of 993. It's pretty handwavy of justified critique.

@Osuka 1: can you link those posts you town read of Iron Kat? I'm going ISO dive them tonight. 2: Besides Freddie who do you scum read and why? Have any town reads?

@Wave & Lilith: Are you both pushing for a Votato lynch today? We're running out of time and I'm not close to sold on it. Failing that who else would you two vote? Seems likely it's coming down to Freddie, Osuka, and me.

@Freddie: Seriously, what are your scum reads? Who do you want lynched today? It seems when people criticize you your first instinct is to imply they're scummy for it and move on.

[Tuxedo Mask]

@FormerFish can you explain your scum read of Freddie? We're almost out of time, and I'd rather have someone at L-1 today so we can have time to deal with a claim and stuff, and still have time to move to another wagon if something happens.

[Tuxedo Mask]

My shitty vote count

Osuka (1) - Tuxedo Mask
Tuxedo Mask (Copykat) (2) - votato, Nauci,
Freddiethelady (2) - osuka, Former Fish
Wavesarc (Brassherald) (1) - gibus
Votato (2) - Wavesarc, Lilith13

Not Voting (1) - Freddiethelady,

With 9 players alive it takes 5 votes to lynch.

If this is right, sorry if it isn't. Things are pretty spread around right now. We need to get a real push going.

VOTE: Freddie

[Tuxedo Mask]

@Nauci lilili was replaced by Copy Cat who was replaced by me. Ironcat was here from the start then replaced by Osuka. Also, can you explain your Brass/Wave read, I do know you've gone over it, but how does their new content fit in? Also, I dislike you hopping off my wagon. I think consolidating things with this little time left is best.

@Freddie why aren't you voting FF? And what about FF do you find scummy?
Do you scum read Copycat/Me? But I'm most interested in your read of Copycat's posts. And do you scum read Osuka/Ironcat? I'm more interested in your thoughts on Osuka's posts though.

[Tuxedo Mask]

Also, I dislike you hopping off my wagon. I think consolidating things with this little time left is best.

Why? There's WAY more content from your slot now than there was when I really really really wanted to lynch there, enough so that your interactions with Freddie make me want to re-evaluate when I can, so I am pushing a different slot that I scum read, especially since it has a replacement who hasn't contributed AI content or enough content to go into day 2 with. Besides, I said that while I'm de-prioritizing this game, I'd be checking it before time runs out and can move if town really needs to consolidate.

This is just me being dumb. I really misjudged where people's reads were at, that's why I thought the wagons we should focus on are myself, Osuka, and Freddie. As those seemed to be the most consistent names coming up when people said where they'd be happy to lynch. So you're hop off me onto Wave felt like taking momentum out of the game. But I was wrong, so good job there.

How many games have you played with Brass? I wanna know since you're read seems pretty meta based. Votato has the same for Freddie but I don't understand how the unicorn is so sure from a half game.

[Tuxedo Mask]

@Lilith where you at? You said Votato hasn't been seriously pushing, but I'm not seeing a major push on him from Wave or you, and you guys have a lot more work cut out for you on that slot.

[Tuxedo Mask]

@Lilith where you at? You said Votato hasn't been seriously pushing, but I'm not seeing a major push on him from Wave or you, and you guys have a lot more work cut out for you on that slot.

What I’ve been doing doesn’t count as a hard push...? Anyway I agree, votato wagon is not gaining any traction. I need to reread the thread tonight and I’ll figure out who out of the viable wagons I would be okay with lynching. I haven’t formed a really strong read on either freddie or waves, so I’ll ISO them and see how I feel

I feel like you two aren't doing enough to try and sell people that Votato is scum, which would take a lot of work. Votato "not pushing" isn't something I really agree with, and if that's everything there are certainly way more lynches that I prefer. But I think you're doing a better job than Wave who's most recent post seems more like a backdown than anything.

[Tuxedo Mask]

@Freddie why aren't you voting FF? And what about FF do you find scummy?
Do you scum read Copycat/Me? But I'm most interested in your read of Copycat's posts. And do you scum read Osuka/Ironcat? I'm more interested in your thoughts on Osuka's posts though.

Freddie, can you answer this?

[Tuxedo Mask]

What the hell was that? Why did you hammer Freddie, seriously?

[Tuxedo Mask]

What the hell was that? Why did you hammer Freddie, seriously?

Why are you upset? You're on the wagon too? You should want Freddie to hang...

I don't want him flash lynched without a claim. Also, I'm not sure what's optimal but it isn't best to just lynch the person who claimed VT, instead of potentially risking out Freddie as PR. Though it's all moot. You didn't hammer. Well played.

[Tuxedo Mask]

@lilith you gave hammer intent, what do you think of Wave's claim?

[Tuxedo Mask]

Right. I'm questioning why you're saying that to freddie when he clearly intends to claim, even though he wasn't actually hammered

Hes a newbie and i hammer tested him, i expected him to crack a little.

What would a town reaction be versus a scum reaction?

[Tuxedo Mask]

Well...day 2 is going to be interesting.

@Votato what do you think about all this mess?

[Tuxedo Mask]

I just don't know how to believe the idea that Freddie successfully read that the fakehammer was fake but then failed to pick up on 2 pages of discussion that they should NOT claim immediately after

I don't know, Freddie seems to miss stuff often. It makes sense for Scum to be less careful like that or in this case lie. But if not

Freddie, if you're town you have to pay closer attention. Not only does it impact your ability to scum hunt, but it's impacting towns' ability to interact with you.

[Tuxedo Mask]

You guys are just talking in circles, can we cool it before you fill up another two pages with nothing. Wave was probably getting lynched, if Lilith wasn't going to I think she would have said something after FF hammered. As Freddie we'll deal with them tomorrow.

[Tuxedo Mask]

ELMO END THIS

[Tuxedo Mask]

Imagine if I didn't hammer, like someone unvoted or a vote didn't get counted correctly and Elmo has nothing to do...

That would be hilfuckingarious

If we were that dumb (I say nervously hoping we aren't that stupid) Elmo couldn't help but make fun of us.

[Tuxedo Mask]

Everyone should click my link and post a comment on it in here. Kthxbai

That's So FFucking Cute!

[Tuxedo Mask]

Besides Freddie, where are everyone's heads at? I just wanna talk about something else for a bit. We're getting nowhere.

[Tuxedo Mask]

Besides Freddie, where are everyone's heads at? I just wanna talk about something else for a bit. We're getting nowhere.

why dont you start?

Cause I'm hella lost and the last few pages of WIFOM and petty arguments didn't help.

I need to reread your and Ironcat's iso. Formerfish and Votato I still think are town, but them arguing over Freddie isn't helping anything.

I think lilith is fine, but I'd like them to talk more.

Being wrong is NAI, but Nausi being so wrong feels weird. So I wanna reread there to.

And I don't know what to think about Freddie anymore. There that probably didn't help anyone with anything. So that's why I wanna hear other player's thoughts.

Spoiler:

[Tuxedo Mask]

I forgot Gibus was even in this game.

[Tuxedo Mask]

votato.solve = {Formerfish, osuka}

Why?

[Tuxedo Mask]

I think lilith is fine, but I'd like them to talk more.

Nope. C'mon.

[Tuxedo Mask]

@Tuxedo: I don't like the way you're trying to shade my D1 read on Brass/waves. I was extremely transparent on just how unlike Brass's meta. Or the way you shut down discussion of Freddie when A: there hadn't even been enough pages to go anywhere, B: Freddie had not showed up to respond yet, and C: it was clearly the biggest point of discussion from yesterday and still needs sorting today. What was your motivation there?

It's so weird that you were so convinced for Brass to be scum based on meta, yet in this same post back peddle on the lynch by saying your vote was for pressure.

FF and CS:GO want Freddie dead, Votato thinks Freddie is confirmed town. All this talk and nothing is changed, but the thread is certainly longer and filled with more insults. Some ableist stuff too, classy. At this point, I'd rather sort Freddie by PoE. Which means talking about how we feel about all the other players. That way at least the game and reads are progressing in a meaningful way. Or do you think the Freddie discussion has helped anything at this point?

[Tuxedo Mask]

Your push-on Wave coming that late into the end of day one comes off like a push for a lynch, but I'll believe you.

I've already said where I am in this game. I really have no idea what is going on. I think seeing where everyone else is at would help me get back into this game. I don't think that's unreasonable.

Do you think Votato, FF, and Osuka continuing their dispute would have resulted in anything meaningful? I don't think it would have, just made this game even more of a drag to read.

[Tuxedo Mask]

And what exactly is expected of me right now, Tux?

Waves had a decent shot of being scum, and wasn't. Freddie was my next choice and his play in twilight only served to further that read and his play today is very much scum play.

So I'm going to push the read I have and see him lynched. What are you doing?

I'd just like to hear you talk about NOT Freddie, you're my strongest town read. So I think your reads of the players could help. Obviously you don't have to, but I think it would be good for the game state.

I'm going to reread when I have time, I said that.

What do you think of Osuka? You guys are double-teaming Votato and Freddie but I don't get the same town vibe from them as I do for you.

and fish the bar is higher for you. you said your gambit would give us a solve by today. where is the solve? or were you just scrambling because we caught you being scummy?

I think this is bad faith, FF said multiple times that he was dropping his normal schtick and playing day 2 style in day 1.

[Tuxedo Mask]

tux may have brought it up a few times since his attempt to change the subject was largely ignored. just a thought.

I don't really know how to contribute at this point - the discussion has only been revolving around how shitty my posts are, which is just noise. lilith isn't around nor is gibus. i think tux and nauci are doing a nice job of looking for other things to discuss, but aren't being engaged. fish and osuka aren't doing much except critique my posts. votato is quiet for now but not like lilith or gibus who have been virtually silent for a long time now.

so nauci, what happened? you had me convinced his slot was scum. i was really surprised by the result; bass' game/behavior may have been an anomaly.

osuka, you're a loud and obnoxious dick. you're unlike fish who (comes across as abrasive also) at least has the decency of explaining why he abhors my reads/personality/contributions. i will improve my game...will you?

question: is it common to suspect someone is lying who confirms themselves as town like i did? i guess i answered my own question by observing that im still under scrutiny even though i confirmed my role.

Line by line:
1: I can handle myself, and I think you've been trying to pocket me for a while.

2: Lilith restated her read of Votato and voted, what do you think of that? What separates Votato's quiet from Lilith's?

3: @Nauci, is this how I came off when I criticized your meta read? If so I'm sorry.

4: Let's not stoop to their level with the insults. Do you town read fish and scum read Osuka? If so, why?

5: What you did is easily faked, it means nothing. I don't think it a common occurrence, but that doesn't make it town.

[Tuxedo Mask]

I don't like how I worded question 4.

@Freddie, is Fish a town read because they explain why they scum read you? Is Okusa a scum read because they don't? Do you think Okusa is sheeping or pocketing Fish? Besides Okusa who do you think is scum and why?

[Tuxedo Mask]

I'm just going to hop in a say, whatever alignment you guys are making it easy to take it personally. Either way you keep making disparaging remarks about their intelligence. Which I get is apart of the whole bravado scum hunting talk saying your bad = your scum, don't take it outside of the context of the game blah blah blah. But you're dealing with a new player, they are trying to defend themselves as scum or town, you're still calling them the player stupid for their attempts. If this was how I was treated in my first game, I would quit. People are here to have fun not to be insulted.

[Tuxedo Mask]

Well I understand the logic, I'd rather lynch Votato for being scummy and not to sort Freddie. If Votato flips town I really don't like where that would leave us.

Even if Freddie flips town I think it would leave us in a better game state, then if we lynch Votato and they flip town.

[Tuxedo Mask]

that seems like a bad plan.

But seriously bedsides wanting to lynch Freddie, which I feel since you only consider them town for knowing them personally, you should find reasonable. Why is Fish and Osuka scum?

Also @Fish, maybe you don't want to use the scene about a man pitching a terrible idea and being utterly rejected for this moment.

[Tuxedo Mask]

if freddie flips town, however remote that possibility, votato should be powerlynched the following day barring only the literal apocalypse

i can understand poor decision making in light of judgment day

What if Freddie flips scum?

[Tuxedo Mask]

if freddie flips town, however remote that possibility, votato should be powerlynched the following day

Is there a typo in this or are you saying that only scum Vota would be able to have that sure of a read on town Freddie?

thats exactly what im saying

Wouldn't that mean Votato is scum regardless of Freddie's alignment?

[Tuxedo Mask]

if freddie flips town, however remote that possibility, votato should be powerlynched the following day

Is there a typo in this or are you saying that only scum Vota would be able to have that sure of a read on town Freddie?

thats exactly what im saying

Wouldn't that mean Votato is scum regardless of Freddie's alignment?

please explain how you got to this point in your reasoning

Fish already got to this but, if your reason against Votato being scum is their %100 sure town read of them, that would make them scum regardless of flips. Because its the sureness coming from scum you're saying you find suspicious.

@Fish, don't you think that Osuka not following the conclusion of his own suspicions is a little weird? Like if he really thought Votato was scum for their sure town read in Freddie shouldn't they be one step ahead of us and not behind?

[Tuxedo Mask]

VOTE: Osuka

[Tuxedo Mask]

You said to Fish with your words, that "only scum Votato" would be that sure of a read on Freddie. Does that not make them scum regardless of Freddie's alignment? Why would Freddie being scum make Vota assuredness town?

[Tuxedo Mask]

Yes, I can, what's your point? You agreed to what Fish laid out. And still haven't said why Freddie flipping scum wouldn't STILL make Vota scum.

[Tuxedo Mask]

Fish why are you just coaching his play right now?

[Tuxedo Mask]

Fish why are you just coaching his play right now?

I'm not.

And if I were scum with him why would I be doing it here and not in the scum PT?

It really sounds like you are. You're carefully laying out how Osuka can conduct themselves in a better more productive way. I don't think you've talked to any of the new players like this, so it's really weird that you're doing it for an experienced one. Like, I'm not sure what you're trying to accomplish here? As for scum PT, I don't know, it's all Wifom.

[Tuxedo Mask]

Votato any reason you're not voting now?

[Tuxedo Mask]

Excuse me, do what now?!

Aren't there like a dozen posts from you town reading votato?

Yes, that's my point. That was in response to Fish saying we should lynch Votato to see if he's telling the truth about Freddie.

So what I was saying to Fish is "If you want me to lynch Votato, make a case that they're scum. Not a case for how it would make Freddi easier to read."

[Tuxedo Mask]

i want to lynch osuka. There is only one thing that would make me change my mind

i hope you're not softing that you want me to claim

@votato in case it wasnt clear enough, please stop ignoring this post

I'm interested in this as well, since Vota has been accusing me of role fishing Freddie when i fake hammered and then explained claiming.

Haven't the two of you made that same statement multiple times about Freedie and Votato? Saying "there's one thing that would convince me you're town, and you haven't said it yet."

Are you role fishing there? If not, how is Votato role fishing when they do it?

[Tuxedo Mask]

Freddie can be town here being propped up by Scum!Vota who is white knighting the shit out of Freddie. Freddie hasnt done anything that is going to shed light on Votas alignment.

I don't think this is true. I don't think scum Votato would double down so hard on Town!Freddie. I think this behavior would make more sense if they were scum together. But I don't think he would actively tarnish a fairly good standing in the eyes of most players to stop a mislynch.

[Tuxedo Mask]

Excuse me, do what now?!

Aren't there like a dozen posts from you town reading votato?

Yes, that's my point. That was in response to Fish saying we should lynch Votato to see if he's telling the truth about Freddie.

So what I was saying to Fish is "If you want me to lynch Votato, make a case that they're scum. Not a case for how it would make Freddi easier to read."

The case is that town!vota has only 1 way to be so sure of town!freddie on day 1, and that is if they are masons together. Freddie has claimed VT, and Vota stays vigilant on the wall defending Freddie against any and all attacks at the expense of his own game.

So, either Freddie is lying about thier role, or they really are vt and scum!vota knows that they are town and are white knighting so that if Freddie dies Vota reaps towncred.

So we can figure out what freddie proibably is from what Vota is, but we can never figure out what vota is based off what Freddie is.

And Tux, ive made my cases on Vota and Freddie, and none of it involves the read alone.

Yeah, I'm not asking for a case now it's been laid out clear. That was one statement I made in response to when you first switched gears for wanting Votato dead before Freddie. I understand the situation now. Nauci just clipped me out of context and I had to explain what I was saying and why at the time.

[Tuxedo Mask]

Freddie can be town here being propped up by Scum!Vota who is white knighting the shit out of Freddie. Freddie hasnt done anything that is going to shed light on Votas alignment.

I don't think this is true. I don't think scum Votato would double down so hard on Town!Freddie. I think this behavior would make more sense if they were scum together. But I don't think he would actively tarnish a fairly good standing in the eyes of most players to stop a mislynch.

You think it makes more sense for scumvota to double down on defending scumfreddie, while scumvota wouldnt defend townfreddie as much?

I understand that if they're both scum Votato has kind of thrown the game by being so dedicated. But I can also see the progression making more sense if they are scum then if Freddie was town.

Why would scum white knight? To win an ally and/or to look good when that person flips town. No offense but Freddie doesn't seem to be that helpful of an ally, and multiple players are calling for Votato's head now even BEFORE Freddie flips. So either way it seems like it would be much easier and better for Scum!Votato to let the mislynch happen rather than stick his neck out in the first place. To me Votato starting down this road and finding it difficult to give up is if they're scum together.

[Tuxedo Mask]

Right, but he's been refused that town cred for the majority of the time he's been Freddie. Like it has gotten to the point you want Votato dead BEFORE Freddie. To me this desperation makes more sense in BOTH being scum because he knows that if either of them flips at this point its game over. While I think a white-knighting Vota would have an easier time (and has been given multiple opportunities) walking away.

P-edit: Hey Fish, why you being a dick? Why does being questioned piss you off so much? I'm trying to learn here. Learn how you, and why you think what you do. So I can 1: get insight into your motives and alignment and 2: fucking learn how to play, which is why I am here. Like fuck, dude it's a game, and talking to you an Osuka for more than five seconds makes me miserable. Is it part of the fun for you two to make other players feel stupid and shitty?

[Tuxedo Mask]

@Lilith between Freddie and Votato who would you want flipped first? And if one flipped town would you still want the other lynched?

[Tuxedo Mask]

Fish, just be an adult, please. Let it go. You say you're only like this when you play, so I'd really like to IRL Fish for a bit. Clearly things are stressed. Elmo has just given us all a warning. If someone breaks those rules, ignore it and let Elmo deal with it. So I don't want to hear you clapping back with "they started it" "they called me x" I don't care. End it. Just stop. You've said your piece on Vota being scum. This isn't playing the game, this is just getting in a fight. Go to sleep, and try to enjoy yourself.

[Tuxedo Mask]

Welcome one and all! Gibus and I will be your guides.

[Tuxedo Mask]

Nope.

[Tuxedo Mask]

Spoiler:

I am currently past page 8.

Spoiler: wall of notes

- 53: Freddie votes ironcat/osuka with what looks to be a “serious” reason, but the reason itself is not valid. Says ironcat/osuka is flipflopping but the two quotes she posted are from the first and then second game roll, so not a valid serious reason. It feels like she was trying to fit in with RVS but tried too hard to come up with a real reason for voting ironcat/osuka. Was this an actually serious vote? ( =/+ Freddie depending on answer)
- 81 to 84: Gibus asks feathers/nausi if they are scum. Feathers/nausi claims VT and then gibus “claims” VT and votes feathers/nausi in the same post. Gibus’ vote seems like simultaneously “noobtownslipping” but voting feathers/nausi for doing the same thing. ( + gibus; - gibus & feathers/nausi team)
- 93 to 95: Gibus votes Freddie, says he’s trying to get us out of RVS, then votes brass/wavesarc. The reasoning behind switching the votes around isn’t really valid but I don’t think it’s AI.
- 110: Votato asks me why I voted gibus, but doesn’t explain why he voted gibus. Could be trying to soft defend a scumbuddy here ( + votato; possibly + votato & gibus team)
- 111: Feathers/nausi is townreading votato and maybe Freddie (but doesn’t give reasons for townreading Freddie); scumreading gibus but doesn’t vote gibus; and scumreading people who are “lurking” but actually weren’t lurking, including me, who he is voting. Reads on Freddie and gibus are probably the weirdest here. ( + feathers; + feathers/nausi & Freddie team; + feathers/nausi & gibus team; - feathers/nausi & votato team)
- 115: votato seems to be either strongly townreading feathers or TMIing (“since you’re town” seems like votato knows feathers is town here when town!votato wouldn’t know feathers’ alignment for sure). Will need to watch out for future posts implying one or the other. Also some soft defense of me. ( + votato)
- 116: Freddie is fencesitting on gibus (“Gibus seems too sloppy to be suspicious but it could be an act”) then questions why I voted gibus right after votato asks the same question, even though I just explained it. Further shades me for “being more experienced than I’m letting on” even though that like… isn’t possible, since I’m not trying to hide experience.. Could be noobscum following in scumpartner votato’s footsteps in questioning me and defending gibus, resulting in trying to shade my slot without actually hard pushing; or possibly scum!freddie getting overly concerned with my vote on scumpartner gibus ( + Freddie; + Freddie & votato team; + Freddie & gibus team)
- 119: Freddie calls me out for defending ironcat/osuka when all I said was that he wasn’t lurking, but also says it might not be AI but is “interesting.” More fencesitting. Probably wouldn’t call someone out who was siding with their scumpartner, so less likely to be scum with ironcat/osuka slot. ( + Freddie; - Freddie & ironcat/osuka team)
- 120: a bit more soft defense of my slot from votato.
- 122: feathers/nausi says vote is on gibus because switching votes a lot and wanting RVS to end are scum indicative, which is actually wrong. Ironcat/osuka later uses this reasoning to scumread me. Not sure if this is AI in either case, as the logic is just bad but not necessarily scummy.
- 124: Freddie shades me for “not posting much, casting votes and defending someone. Not trying to sort out the rules, clarify things or understand people better” being suspicious. Immediately backs off after my response. Could go either way on this one.
- 129: more soft defense of my slot from votato. I think could be trying to buddy me. ( + votato)
- 137 and 140: Ironcat/osuka votes Freddie for questioning gibus’ ping ponging votes, and says Freddie is trying to “buddy him with Lilith.” What does this even mean? Also Freddie isn’t the one who called ironcat/osuka out for lurking, it was gibus; and Freddie didn’t push ironcat/osuka at all. This seems like an overly focused post to Freddie when Freddie isn’t even scumreading or pushing ironcat/osuka. Likely not SvS. ( + ironcat/osuka; - ironcat/osuka & Freddie team)
- 144: gibus says at least one of me/Freddie is town. Votato immediately pops into thread to ask why. Gibus responds that freddie’s and my argument about whether I was defending ironcat looks like “something we would have gone through in a PT if they both were scum.” Then says “little chance for [distancing] since Lilith planned on leaving RVS by voting for me, and shifting the spotlight to both of them would look bad as scum.” This looks like town reasoning, although I disagree that this kind of disagreement couldn’t be manufactured by scumpartners. ( - gibus)
- 148: Ironcat/osuka says “it’s funny how Freddie is saying that flipping is a mafia move,” again incorrectly ascribing someone else’s post (feathers) to Freddie in order to build a read on them. Then ironcat/osuka FOSes me for reasons unclear, says I would “put the blame on Freddie.” Suddenly switches to townread on Freddie and scumread on me with no explanation and no additional posts from either Freddie or myself to inform that change in read. A weird interaction, I think it’s more likely to be scum flipping read on town than two scumpartners. ( + ironcat/osuka; - ironcat/osuka & Freddie team)
- 151: Feathers/nausi questions ironcat/osuka – why is ironcat/osuka voting Freddie but also worried Freddie would be blamed for a kill?
- 155 to 159: Ironcat/osuka responds with “don’t worry, I’m suspicious of you as well. Who said that Freddie would be blamed?” when…. that’s exactly what he said about Freddie. In 157, he’s still supposedly scumreading Freddie though, and in 159 says that if I’m scum, that I could kill people who suspect me and blame Freddie since ironcat/osuka suspected Freddie too. Once again, this implies townreading Freddie even though reads list says Freddie is a scumread. Could be inadvertent TMI (knows Freddie is town). Also I’m the highest scumread even though ironcat/osuka only suspects me by association with Freddie.. This is a cagey way to start scumreading me and pushing original Freddie read to the side. ( + ironcat/osuka; + ironcat/osuka & Freddie team)
- 160 and 161: votato votes ironcat/osuka for misunderstanding ironcat/osuka’s list as being “all the scumreads” rather than “list of scummiest to towniest.” Not sure if AI, but could be trying to soft defend me or Freddie here since those are ironcat/osuka’s two top scumreads. ( + votato & Freddie team)
- In 153, gibus says “quicksolve: brass, Lilith, formerfish” but doesn’t vote brass until several hours later in 166, as if he forgot that he should be voting who he scumreads most and had to be reminded. ( + gibus)
- 189: ironcat/osuka and votato misunderstanding over the “suspicion list” doesn’t seem like SvS. Ironcat/osuka’s explanation for why he is scumreading Freddie doesn’t actually mention Freddie at all. ( + ironcat/osuka; - ironcat/osuka & votato team)
- 190 and 192: Ironcat/osuka suddenly votes me based on associatives, horrible reason to vote. He hasn’t found anything that I’ve actually done up to this point that is scummy, but is voting me based on association with Freddie. Freddie suddenly becomes his strongest townread, so they could be scumpartners intending to both end up pushing me all along. ( + ironcat/osuka; + ironcat/osuka & Freddie team)

Spoiler: conclusions thus far

scumpool of {freddie, ironcat/osuka, votato}
- votato seemed to be soft defending me from freddie as well as soft defending me & freddie from ironcat/osuka, which comes across as WKing or chainsaw if freddie is also scum; also has a very strong townread on feathers/nausi which could be TMIing on that slot.
- freddie was fencesitting on gibus yet in the same post soft defending him; and was fencesitty on me when I said ironcat wasn't lurking. Also shaded me/others for things that weren't AI (including the "lurking", "being more experienced than I'm letting on" and not being friendly/helpful enough).
- ironcat seems to focus overly much on pushing freddie slot and calling them scum. He called me scum by association with Freddie, then after being questioned, suddenly flipped his read on Freddie without flipping the read on me that was formed by association with a scum!Freddie. He didn't provide any other reason for scumreading me.

Questions up to this point:

@Freddie, was 53 actually a serious vote?
@votato, why did you vote gibus in 78?

For freddie to be town here, there are so many exact pieces that have to not line up in her thought process for her to claim after a hammer on someone else.

Here's the sequence of events:
1) she put wave to L-1 and knew to announce it
2) I declared intent to hammer and asked wave to claim
3) wave claimed
4) wave voted freddie to L-1
5) fish fakehammered
6) votato said in 1088 that wasn't a hammer, he was already on the wagon
7) literally no one has asked freddie to claim thus far. votato even says no need to claim since no one has declared intent to hammer.
8) fish hammers wave and it's clear they are discussing wave having already been lynched.
9) freddie claims VT.

so freddie claimed:
- after freddie herself was the one who declared waves at L-1
- after she sees someone hammering waves
- after no one told her to claim or declared intent to hammer her
- after votato specifically said not to claim
- after multiple people are clearly discussing waves already being dead

She has to have not seen

all of these things

in order for town!freddie to think she needs to claim, which makes literally no sense because she was the one who put waves at L-1 in the first place. If she was confused about the gamestate, she could have even asked, "am I supposed to claim?" to make sure. There's literally no need for her to claim. at all.

so why claim then?

for towncred. like, look at me being so noobtown that I claim even when I'm not the lynch. I can't even tell when someone else's wagon was hammered! That can't be real.

I think these posts are awesome so I'm calling attention to them

Gibus & Tuxedo Mask, do you guys agree or disagree with the contents of these posts?

I think it's a well written and accurate depiction of events, Lilith was my strongest town read before everything went sideways, but I'm still torn on the conclusion.

I think Votato and Freddie's play are both extremely weird, but with just how emotional things got I feel really torn. I really feel it is either S/S or T/T and I'm leaning T at the moment with Freddie and Vota being genuine.

Welcome one and all! Gibus and I will be your guides.

???

I'm so sorry, I honestly didn't realize you didn't replace as well. Thanks for staying though! I'm just planning on letting al 5(?!) new players become settled before weighing in on much. I'm pretty lost at the moment.

Actually UNVOTE: BBMola.

[Tuxedo Mask]

Greetings!

I was promised panadas.

88% of living players in this game are replacements. This presents a unique challenge! I'll review the thread over the next 24 hours.

Gibus, as the sole remainder of the original playlist, can I trouble you for a tl;dr?

Wavesarc, Fred and CopyKat were the main wagons of D1.
Votato was scumread by lilith and waves for not pushing his scumreads.
Fred claimed even though someone else got hammered. FF, osuka, lilith speculated that this was scummy. Votato was very confident that it came from a town mindset, which made others think that votato could flip scum if Fred flipped town/Fred could flip scum if votato flipped scum.

I'm actually still not sure what Tuxedo thought of it

I know that I didn't think much of the original claim post, but many subsequent posts such as the one trying to distance from any blame for the wavesarc lunch struck me as scummy

I didn't know what to make of it, I was there watching the whole thing unfold. I think the speed at which it all happened, and the general confusion from that is important to think about that a recap and reread doesn't do justice. My inability to really attribute scum or town to it, and how toxic the conversation was why I asked people to talk about something else at the start of Day 2.

[Tuxedo Mask]

this game got heated

okay boys where we at, I'm pretty confident in that Lillith/Dunn slot being scum, unsure of the other

theres 1 scum in Nauci-Gibus. I'm not too sure which - who do you like and I'll go with ya?

Why do you say that? I've had gut pings on Gibus, but feathers seemed pretty obv town.

[Tuxedo Mask]

this game got heated

okay boys where we at, I'm pretty confident in that Lillith/Dunn slot being scum, unsure of the other

theres 1 scum in Nauci-Gibus. I'm not too sure which - who do you like and I'll go with ya?

Why do you say that? I've had gut pings on Gibus, but feathers seemed pretty obv town.

Day 1 wagon bound to have 1 scum on it I reckon, those are the only 2 on there who aren't obvtown to me anyway.

Gibus is probably my preferred - only guy who didn't replace out, scum?

I mean if you wanna really put on a tinfoil hat, last game Elmo modded that I replaced into, Newbie 1996. It had a similar thing where lots of player tension resulted in most of the players replacing out. All except three, two of which were the scum team.

The important thing to note is that Elmo is cursed.

[Tuxedo Mask]

If everyone is caught up, could I get a read list from the replacements? Sorry, everything is a bit up in the air at the moment. So I'd appreciate being able to pin down where people stand specifically, and not just how they feel about certain major moments.

[Tuxedo Mask]

What does Bloody Marying/Beetlejuicing mean? Like you say their name and they appear, but how does that relate to game theory?

[Tuxedo Mask]

Stay safe.

[Tuxedo Mask]

I need to look at this Tuxedo/copykat thing a little closer but that seemed to be more early game. I'm not so much for a Blair/Freddie hook today.

Did you come to a conclusion on this?

Also, I'm liking Blair, and still like the Lilith slot. I think a lynch of Gibus or Osuka slot is what I most support.

[Tuxedo Mask]

@Gibus if you won't vote Blair for being new why aren't you voting me? The only not new player in your lynch pool.

Sorry I haven't commented much. I was expecting more of concrete catch up posts from the replacements, but it seems they've all pricked pretty specific moments from all over the game they feel like talking about. Not to disparage their play, they're all experienced players. Just really giving me difficulty reading any of them and engaging. Also part of my town read for Blair as they stepped out of their playstyle to give a read list I asked for.

[Tuxedo Mask]

@Nauci, I think it's just a long game with pages and pages of pretty toxic fighting that isn't even solving related. Just a bit of a slog to read.

[Tuxedo Mask]

If it's between Gibus and Lilith I'd take Gibus. But I'd still rather get the Osuka slot.

VOTE: Gibus

[Tuxedo Mask]

@Tuxedo
If I'm not wrong, you said I had a scummy start but pinged town as the game progressed.
Where is the scumread coming from?

Well, I didn't like how you started day 1, and my town read of you at the end of day 1 was me also saying that the improvement in your play felt weird. As for day 2, I feel more and more with the emotions and hurt feelings from Fish, Votato, and Freddie that it was TvTvT (Osuka's contributions and emotions still feel inauthentic though) and I feel suspicious of the players who sat back while that situation grew out of control. Since that whole thing is very advantageous to scum. Also, you and Nacui flailing over the last pages didn't look great.

So I feel good about this vote.

Also, Dunnstral pointing out the Osuka slot seemed pretty clearly in response to me saying they'd be my top pick. So I town read that, and have a weird ping against those who FOS'd it. But yeah, Dunnstral you should join the Gibus wagon instead.

[Tuxedo Mask]

A post full of wisdom.

I'm already in Blair's deep pockets with Nauci, I'm sorry.

[Tuxedo Mask]

Should I claim?

Once someone announces intent to hammer they will ask you to, then claim and provide final thoughts.

[Tuxedo Mask]

Also, you and Nacui flailing over the last pages didn't look great.

What do you mean by flailing here?

1945 to 1958 feel really off tonally. Like you're both arguing with Blair, but you're realizing Gibus isn't doing well. So you're doing a very nonserious scum read on them. Like it feels really covered in banter to leave things open in case you need to lynch him, and don't need to follow up if you don't. But could be wrong since you haven't announced hammer intent.

P-edit. The heck was that.

[Tuxedo Mask]

Man, do I not know what is going on in this game.

[Tuxedo Mask]

I'll do whatever town decides is best. Nauci you should unvote. You might be right but it's an unnecessary risk in Lylo. I don't think I trust BM's push.

[Tuxedo Mask]

I'll do whatever town decides is best. Nauci you should unvote. You might be right but it's an unnecessary risk in Lylo. I don't think I trust BM's push.

This is pretty weak. "I'll do whatever town decides is best", in a game where you'd assume 2/5 other players would be scum, sounds a bit more like "I'll claim first if you absolutely force me to".

You are definitely top of my lynchpile at the moment, but a good claim might spare you.

If I'm scum and not taking place in the mass claim discussion, because guess what, I actually don't know the best course of action. Do you think my partner arguing with 4 townies is going to reach make them reach the wrong choice? Really? You think it's better for me as town to just roll over and do what you say because you're threatening me?

Not to mention yesterday you though I had good points for scum reading Gibus. Then BB shades me without even explaining why and that's enough to completely flip on me? Yeah, you made an agreement to lynch Dunstral or me if Gibus got lynched, but since I know my alignment I know that agreement is just lining up mislynches.

[Tuxedo Mask]

Or BM, and think with me here for a second, my stance is based on the fact I am the only new player left in an, as it was put, a newbie game full of experienced players before. I have not been in this situation before so I'm not going to argue with you being right or wrong, because I don't know. I will instead wait to see what all the experienced players have to say.

Also looking at the NK from my side, all it does is make me look really bad going into MYLO, which since I'm town is definitely something scum want.

[Tuxedo Mask]

It's bair

[Tuxedo Mask]

Wait. Don't lynch Dunrstal. I'm certain it's Blair. Unvote Durnstral

[Tuxedo Mask]

I'm a fucking idiot.
It's Dunnstral. Who's their partner?

[Tuxedo Mask]

I'm off to bed, can we not lynch before I've had time to pull my big dumb head from my big dumb ass. Thanks.

[Tuxedo Mask]

Scum pair is Dunnstral and Battle Mage, they came into MYLO with an agenda they are pushing hard. Do not lynch Blair. If isn't Battle Mage it's Alortom.

[Tuxedo Mask]

Scum pair is Dunnstral and Battle Mage, they came into MYLO with an agenda they are pushing hard. Do not lynch Blair. If isn't Battle Mage it's Alortom.

Take a moment to think this through. Look at blair's arguments.

Yeah that's why I need to sleep and think. I feel the only thing my last few posts about you and Blair scum has mad clear is that I'm dumb. I plan to clear those other two things up tomorrow.

[Tuxedo Mask]

@Blair, I'm of the opinion the mass clam was the plan, and Nauci derailed it. The fake claim is an attempt to redirect things to that plan, but I am not close minded to Nauci scum. I'd just rather it wasn't.

[Tuxedo Mask]

I also think the NK is to set me up. BBMolla wanted Me and Dunnstral killed. So why did BM come hard targeting just me and ignoring Durnn? Because the play was for mass claim, I claim VT and Drunn fake claims and they power lynch me for the win.

[Tuxedo Mask]

I SPELLED HIS NAME THREE DIFFERENT WAYS!

I gotta sleep. Sorry, goodnight.

[Tuxedo Mask]

My slot targeted Formerfish night 1 - Received no result

Important note: Dunnstral is claiming he was jailed N1.

Formerfish was probably his kill target. He carried out the kill, so he knows either himself or his target were jailed. He only has a 50% chance of getting this aspect of his claim confirmed by the Jailkeeper, however, because if Formerfish was jailed a Tracker would have still received a result on him.

Or Fish tried to preform the kill, and shared the no result with their partner. Who is that again?

[Tuxedo Mask]

My slot targeted Formerfish night 1 - Received no result

Important note: Dunnstral is claiming he was jailed N1.

Formerfish was probably his kill target. He carried out the kill, so he knows either himself or his target were jailed. He only has a 50% chance of getting this aspect of his claim confirmed by the Jailkeeper, however, because if Formerfish was jailed a Tracker would have still received a result on him.

Or Fish tried to preform the kill, and shared the no result with their partner. Who is that again?

If the Jailkeeper jailed Fish N1, then Dunnstral is caught in a lie, since he is claiming his investigation of Formerfish failed that night.

Wouldn't it?

[Tuxedo Mask]

OKAY!
(Please correct where I am wrong)
If I believe Dunnstral, he is a tracker and believes Votato is the Jailkeep. This is what he says went down this game.
So night 1, Lilith tracked Fish and Votato Jailkept them. Resulting with no night kill, and Lilith getting no result. So either fish was stopped from killing or was the target.

Night 2 Dunn tracked Blair who visited Alortom. Meaning that since Alortom isn't dead Blair must be the Jailkeeper (which they would have claimed) or must be the rolestopper.

Dunn if this is your claim, just say yes. If not correct me.

[Tuxedo Mask]

If JK and Tracke target the same person they get no result.

[Tuxedo Mask]

Well now I'm just confused, sorry about that. Luckily it isn't really relevant to the answer I'm seeking. So I'm still waiting for Dunnstral to weigh if I'm right about what he did.

[Tuxedo Mask]

@Tuxedo: Dunnstral claimed that he received No Result on Night 1. This means that he was either jailed or roleblocked.

He then claims that he saw Blair visit Aloratom, who was not the night kill. This means Blair must either he the jailer or the Mafia Roleblocker.

Except he's speculating that Aloratom is the jailer, and that he jailed Blair on Night 1, so she could not have blocked him, and neither could Aloratom. This scenario is impossible if he saw Blair visit Aloratom last night OR if he received No Result on Night 1, so why would he be speculating about that at all if his claim was real?

That's what I thought, but I'd like to hear Dunn confirm it.

[Tuxedo Mask]

That isn't my question. My question for you, Dunnstral is this. Are you claiming that you tracked Blair to Alortrom last night so they must be the roleblocker?

[Tuxedo Mask]

Are you claiming that you tracked Blair to Alortrom last night so they must be the roleblocker?

YES

Lets end this battle.

VOTE: Dunnstral

[Tuxedo Mask]

Please repeat without using pronouns.

Dunnstral is a liar.

[Tuxedo Mask]

First person to hammer Dunnstral is town cleared. This offer also extends to Dunnstral.

[Tuxedo Mask]

ostensibly

Spoiler: Hope this doesn't come off as mean

[Tuxedo Mask]

Elmo's here! Quick lynch Dunnstral so the day can end.

[Tuxedo Mask]

Cause the game feels pretty locked in at the moment, so why waste our time?

[Tuxedo Mask]

We should probably no lynch, right?

[Tuxedo Mask]

If I get to nominate, I want Tux claiming before Nauci.

Thought we were waiting on Nauci to make the call?

[Tuxedo Mask]

If I get to nominate, I want Tux claiming before Nauci.

Thought we were waiting on Nauci to make the call?

Erm no, I get to choose the next claimer.

Nauci is in charge of strategy for the remainder of the day.

Okay, I'm...

Town Jailkeeper

I Jailed FF N1. Softed here.

Everyone should click my link and post a comment on it in here. Kthxbai

That's So FFucking Cute!

Jailed Blair N2, which I didn't soft but it's how I knew Dunn was lying.

Then I jailed Battlemage N3 (probably a mistake in retrospect but I was really certain of that team), so he's conf town. Softed here.

Are you claiming that you tracked Blair to Alortrom last night so they must be the roleblocker?

YES

Lets end this battle.

VOTE: Dunnstral

[Tuxedo Mask]

Yeah, I thought they would, but was paranoid he'd be most likely to carry out the NK (especially if it was someone like Freddie) so I probably wasted N3 by double-checking you. This is my first time playing a PR, and Jailkeeper is a confusing one.

[Tuxedo Mask]

Was the NK just to narrow the POE on BM, or was the scum team (based on Dunn's actions) that convinced Votato's slot was a PR. Maybe we could find similar assumptions in Nauci and Blair's ISOs?

[Tuxedo Mask]

Wait town just wins? Scum don't have a Roleblocker. So we lynch Blair or Nauci and JK the other at night and lynch them tomorrow.

[Tuxedo Mask]

Just thought of something. Nauci if you're the Tracker claim VT, if you claim Tracker we're lynching you first.

[Tuxedo Mask]

Just to be absolutely clear we are conformed that it is two mafia goons, me as cleared JK and BM as cleared Townie. So it is irrelevant who we lynch today, either town wins Day 4 or Day 5?

[Tuxedo Mask]

VOTE: Blair but I'll call my shot now and say I think it's Nauci. Also no 4d chess on my end. With no Roleblocker this game is locked and loaded.

[Tuxedo Mask]

Awww dang.

[Tuxedo Mask]

Yeah, so we just lynch Nauci right? Nauci are you self voting or are you going to fight this?

[Tuxedo Mask]

VOTE: Nauci oops my hand slipped.

Also it's 4 am where I'm at. Only up cause of my cat shoved his stinky butt in my face. Night y'all.

Thanks for the game Elmo

Dedicated to Freddie.

[Tuxedo Mask]

TWICE IN A ROW I MISS THE HAMMER!
(And on Dunn too cause I didn't realize we needed 4.)

[Tuxedo Mask]

Good Game everyone, thanks to the big wave of replacements. It really felt like a different game after that. I was actually having fun.

Also @Feathers, I don't have many games here but I will say this was very far outside what I've experienced. The vast majority of people I've played with have been really fun and friendly.

[Tuxedo Mask]

@Nauci I'm not an experienced alt, that picture was just something I found googling "Sexy Tuxedo Mask" for the joke with Votato. Enjoyed reading that thread, scum played really well the entire game.