Micro 940: A Normal Blitz II - Game Over

[Madoka]

Oh six pages! Blitzmas has come early. It is nice to see you all again!

[Madoka]

I think Hiraki is currently a good place for pressure. I do not have any strong reads yet.

[Madoka]

Why Datisi, Hoctac?

[Madoka]

I think that's probably not alignment indicative. It seems to depend on his motivation. During a round of Conspiracy, he was similar in tone. From what I've observed, I think town!Datasi comes alive when he feels he has good insight. That being said, perhaps you may be onto something with the Umlaut vote. What did you not like about it. I presume he was voting Umlaut for the sake of making the wagons even?

[Madoka]

Madoka, how do you read Hiraki?

I have a slight town impression of him from his last post, but when I say slight, I mean slight. What I liked was him reconsidering you based on the post he quoted of yours asking why your vote wasn't scummy but Datisi's was. I also have a town impression of that post. It indicates that you are playing objectively and are not so much concerned with how you are perceived. If that is what Hiraki is picking up on, then I think it's a positive indicator of his alignment. Regarding his naked vote and leaving, I don't think that is alignment indicative. I think a fair amount of pressure is good on Hiraki, though, because lurking is disadvantageous to the town.

madoka, any reads or feels so far?

♡ I have a slight town impression of Hiraki based on the reasoning above.
♡ I have a town impression of HEM based on the reasoning above.
♡ I am currently scum reading you for this last post of yours. In particular, asking me about my reads a few posts after I stated that I did not have any reads (157) suggests to me that you are not solving me. I also think your justification for you Umlaut vote is overdefensive.
♡ I have a slight associative town impression of Hoctac with regard to his relation to you. If you are scum, then I think your overdefensiveness is probably indicative of town Hoctac.

[Madoka]

Umlaut, could you confirm if you are indeed Masons? I'd rather not waste mental energy attempting to sort you if you are. And being deceptive and having us think you are when you are not, causes confusion and is unfair to your allies if you're town.

[Madoka]

♡ I am currently scum reading you for this last post of yours. In particular, asking me about my reads a few posts after I stated that I did not have any reads (157) suggests to me that you are not solving me. I also think your justification for you Umlaut vote is overdefensive.

except not really, you stated you didn't have

strong

reads. which, while reasonable at this stage of the game, doesn't help in reading you or anyone else.

hoctac's suspicion of me was arising from (i guess) his misunderstanding of my umlaut vote. i'm going to explain myself.

I do not think there is anything wrong with explaining yourself. It is how exhaustively you did that I am reading as over defensiveness. Stating that you were just making the wagons even would have been sufficient. I think your point about me asking for strong reads properly annuls my other point.

[Madoka]

It indicates the opposite.

In what way?

This is scummy.

In what way?

meta garbage pfffffffffffffffffffffffffffrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrttttttttttttttttt

What is this?

[Madoka]

I

think that's probably not alignment indicative. It seems to depend on his motivation.

During a round of Conspiracy, he was similar in tone.

From what I've observed, I think town!Datasi comes alive when he feels he has good insight.

That being said,

perhaps you may be onto something with the Umlaut vot

e.

What did you not like about it.

I presume he was voting Umlaut for the sake of making the wagons even?

?

Was this a way to gague Hoctac's read?

Not what you bolded, no. The line I underlined above, yes.

[Madoka]

Stating that you were just making the wagons even would have been sufficient.

it would've been

sufficient

, but it wouldn't have been

true

. i wanted it known that i'm also slightly suspecting umlaut. which might or might not be a moot point now if they reaffirm the mason claims or not.

Yes, but I'm referring to the degree/lengths of your explanation. For example, you quoted the entire series of posts surrounding your umlaut vote. And then you explained your entire thought process on the Mason claim in long-winded way.

[Madoka]

Datisi, do you agree then that it was overdefensive?

[Madoka]

Also, rude!

[Madoka]

This bulbasaur one is way too cute.

[Madoka]

Datisi, do you agree then that it was overdefensive?

it was more defensive than it needed to be, sure. i'm perfectly aware i could've "gotten away" with only "lol wagon make even".

And do you think you've ever been over-explanatory as town before? If so, would you mind providing an example? The reason why I think overdefensiveness is scummy is that it indicates a sense of self-consciousness which scum are more inclined to have. However, I do think there are situations where town feel that way as well. Do you think you are able to determine what caused you to react that way? Also for the record, I am using 'overdefensiveness' to mean a response that has greater intensity than what would be expected from what is being reacted to. So it is not the case that I am looking for examples of you simply posting at length, I am looking for an example of you reacting as such when it was not warranted. Why do you not think overdefensiveness is scum indicative?

[Madoka]

Stating that you were just making the wagons even would have been sufficient.

it would've been

sufficient

, but it wouldn't have been

true

. i wanted it known that i'm also slightly suspecting umlaut. which might or might not be a moot point now if they reaffirm the mason claims or not.

Yes, but I'm referring to the degree/lengths of your explanation. For example, you quoted the entire series of posts surrounding your umlaut vote. And then you explained your entire thought process on the Mason claim in long-winded way.

Holden, why did you ask me about this and why have you not followed up?

[Madoka]

Oh yes, sorry, I missed your response above.

[Madoka]

Datisi, do you agree then that it was overdefensive?

it was more defensive than it needed to be, sure. i'm perfectly aware i could've "gotten away" with only "lol wagon make even".

And do you think you've ever been over-explanatory as town before? If so, would you mind providing an example? The reason why I think overdefensiveness is scummy is that it indicates a sense of self-consciousness which scum are more inclined to have. However, I do think there are situations where town feel that way as well. Do you think you are able to determine what caused you to react that way? Also for the record, I am using 'overdefensiveness' to mean a response that has greater intensity than what would be expected from what is being reacted to. So it is not the case that I am looking for examples of you simply posting at length, I am looking for an example of you reacting as such when it was not warranted. Why do you not think overdefensiveness is scum indicative?

probably have. dunno if i remember specific examples. i remember in the last blitz i was bugging hiraki about why didn't he like my posts. i don't like people scumreading me for stupid reasons and am gonna act defensive about it. ye sure overdefensiveness *can* be scum indicative but i think it depends on person to person. some try to sweep the suspicion on them under the carpet and pretend it doesn't exist. some react defensively.

if i bothered to find meta examples, would it even make a difference? last time i did it, you still read me wrong

Yes, it would help me. My read on you is no where near strong enough to warrant tunneling.

[Madoka]

I am leaning Hiraki as the best choice currently.

[Madoka]

That is my thinking as well HEM. His push on you does not look sincere to me.

[Madoka]

Umlaut, I do not vote until I am ready to lynch.

[Madoka]

You are implying that this is objective based rather than perception based. I think we may just be thinking of the same idea with different terms. I am saying that he is objectifying his perception in order to look townie. You are saying that his perception is an object to use to look townie. In which case, we would be agreeing rather than what I stated.

I was referring to this:

I'll introduce a third party and interject a question of my own:
Why are you squeamish about Datisi's naked vote and not mine? Why are you squeamish about wagons forming on people you have no reads on?

Unless you have a read on Umlaut?

Wow, maybe I am wrong.

[Madoka]

I have been skimming, but I am no longer V/LA and will be able to put more time into this. Also Micc, you didn't read this. If you did, I wasn't V/LA, I'm lying.

I am up to page 5 on in-depth reading:

Spoiler: Look at me I am so Town

5 nai
6 nai
8 nai
9 nai
10 nai
11 hu: town, non-lamisty as compared to previous game
12 nai
13 nai
14 nai and also i dont know what this means
15 nai
18 nai and funny
25 ge: town, only town role fish and role phish and roll fish
27 ge: town flex posting
28 da: scum joke
29 hu: scum vote
30 ge: town reaction
31 hu: town perspective
32 ge: town reaction
33 sh: town involvement
34 nai
36 da: hedgey = scummy
37 hu: town, is ok with people being town read / not arguing against it
38 nai
39 nai
41 nai
42 ge: town, guiltless
44 nai
45 nai
46 hu: nvm he is arguing against it
47 nai
53 hu: no, faking that requires premeditation. george was clearly reacting in the moment. you dont need meta for this
54 nai bugspray/umlaut line funny
56 hu: i believe
58 nai
59 ge: do the town reads really come from meta? i dont think so. this read on hem is iffy
60 hu: weird post. really weird post
61 nai
62 da: hedge again
65 nai shiki #2
66 nai
67 nai
68 nai
69 nai shiki #3
70 nai
71 hu: yes i agree
73 hu: good accepting it
74 nai but man this is a completely different guy from last game it's making me feel weird
75 da: is reading as unnaturaly conversive to me. is this bias??? my experience with him is limited so let's make this nai
76 nai
77 da: good tone
80 nai
81 nai
82 nai and scaring me
83 nai and i thought i knew fear before
84 nai
85 nai
86 nai
87 nai lol whyyy
88 ho: good eval
89 nai
90 hu: alright point
91 nai
93 hu: highly town indicative. hu in previous game was very forceful with his positions
94 nai
97 sh: good eval
98 nai
99 nai
100 nai
101 hu: no good, it wasnt suspicious at all
103 nai also don't know why he said this
104 hu: good
105 nai
106 nai
109 nai
110 nai
111 nai
113 nai
114 ho: hmmm
115 nai
117 nai
118 nai
122 nai
123 nai

From the content up to that point,

♡ I am town reading HEM. He is playing in an easy going way and does not seem to care too much about players being town read. In the previous game he pushed for players pretty hard so as to avoid being PoEd. He was also very LAMISTy and he does not appear to be making an effort to appear town here. My negatives are that his friendliness and jovial character is making me feel weird because of the stark contrast with his previous play. It does make me wonder if he is trying to be so different from the last game, that he is town read by meta.

@Holden

, did scum HEM in your last game play similarly to Blitz I? Or did he change up his style? Do you think his play here is within the realm of being deliberately different? Another thing that is weirding me out is how he keeps addressing Shiki. But I think the most suspicious part of HEM's play was his read on the George situation. George simply was not scummy there, and HEM portrayed everyone else's read of the situation as coming from meta, but I do not think that was the case except for Shiki. I suppose this, along with the way HEM has been addressing Shiki, could be explained if they are in a neighborhood and Shiki expressed her meta view of George privately.

♡ I have a town impression of George. His reaction to the masons claim appeared natural and fluid. My only negative is that his play is different than the previous Blitz. That does not provide enough data, however, for this to greatly impact my read. Oh, I also was not fond of his HEM read. George agreed that everyone's view of him came from meta, but again, I do not think that was true. He just looked townie from the situation.

♡ I have a town impression of Shiki. I agreed with her analysis of HEM.

♡ I have a slight town impression of Holden. I liked his perspective on George.

♡ I have a slight scum impression of Datasi. He seems off, but I am not sure how much of that is bias from future pages. Datisi once told me that he is great at being town read from town as tone, so it is concerning that I am getting a scum impression. The hedgeyness of his pan cakes is what pinged me. Is it really a pot bake if it comes with an asterisk? That is a warm make not a hot sake. The timing of his HEM pot cake also did not seem natural.

---

If Shiki and HEM are neighbors, the setup is looking similar to this game. It may be then, that the neighbors are both town, and mafia consists of a traffic analyst and a goon.

[Madoka]

Ok, looking through that last page, I think it is safe to lock HEM as town.

[Madoka]

I think my reads are about the same but with Datisi in place of Madoka. Shiki, George, and Holden are also on the same level.

[Madoka]

Datisi, who is the character in your avatar?

[Madoka]

Datisi, I will read it tonight

[Madoka]

How is George's play different here?

He is more involved. In the previous, he was quite lurky.

[Madoka]

Datisi, I looked through your interaction with Bingle and it does not have the same essence to me. Your response seemed pretty normal? And you were responding to someone actively questioning to you. Perhaps that is not the section you meant to quote?

[Madoka]

can you substantiate this a bit more?

How so?

[Madoka]

Up to Page 10

Spoiler: LIT

125 hu: town, objective
126 nai
127 nai
134 nai
138 nai
140 hu: super town -- I am actually going to stop including HEM's posts since he's locked.
141 cont.
142 sh: her analysis seems to be particularly on point this game -- sharp or dark? If anyone can think of a better opposite to "dumb or scum" that rhymes please help
144 ho: ngl why is he continuing this after Hoctac hard claimed?
146 ge: this doesn't make sense, why null rather than datisi? What is town about datisi?
148 nai
152 Ho: why are you still questioning him?
153 nai townish
167 da: this response is disproportional to the accusation. Coming across it a second time, I dont think this is town. I also don't care for the shiki vote. holden is the scummiest up to this point.
170 da: good response
174 sh: the idea that i asked umlaut to vote doesnt seem like the though scum!Shiki would have
145 da: good response
178 nai
179 nai
183 nai
184 nai
185 ge: townie thought, very townie
186 nai
187 ho: what is the purpose of this
188 ho: ok this is pretty townie looks ignorant
189 nai
190 ho: i think it is bad that holden is focusing so much on this. I know he tends to get caught up on stuff though so im not sure what to make of it
191 nai
192 nai
193 ho: the answer is pretty straight forward
195 nai
197 nai
199 ho: slightly town indicative
206 ho: good good
207 nai
208 nai
211 nai
212 nai
213 and dont know what hes saying
215 nai
218 ho: good eval
219 nai
220 nai but good
225 ho: intersting
226 nai
235 ge: entering tmi territory
236 nai
236 ge: good tone
242 da:good tone
243 sh: i like the hg read
244 ge: so tmi-y
245 nai

♡ I still read Datisi's reaction as coming from self-conscious scum. Some of his responses afterward had a towny tone, however, I do not think they are enough to override the read. Still, this read is not that strong.

♡ Holden's treatment of the masons was strange. He focused on it way too long and he questioned umlaut way too long. It did not produce anything fruitful. I really cannot wrap my head around why he discussed the Madoka vote thing with him so long. I think there is a good chance Holden is scum.

♡ Shiki has made solid post after solid post. Her reasoning is consistent and her points do not come off to me as having come from scum. In particular, her paranoia that I asked umlaut to vote her and her read on Holden.

♡ Hiraki's post up to this point have also left a slight town impression on me. They looked worse when I was skimming, but his points are not bad.

♡ George has made some really innocent seeming posts, but he also seems to be making a lot of posts that read as TMI. In particular, his read of shiki and his read of Holden. He made a post saying that he thinks the reason holden is playing differently here is because of the pace. I think this is a strange opinion to have considering the last game they played together was also a blitz game... I think George is currently my strongest suspect.

[Madoka]

This represents the current strength of my reads

GeorgeBailey
<<<<

<

<<<<<o>>>>>>>>>>

Datisi
<<<<<

<

<<<<o>>>>>>>>>>

HoldenGolden
<<<<<<

<

<<<o>>>>>>>>>>

Hiraki
<<<<<<<<<<o>>

>

>>>>>>>

shiki
<<<<<<<<<<o>>>>>>

>

>>>

humaneatingmonkey
<<<<<<<<<<o>>>>>>>>

>

>

[Madoka]

I am working on it HEM! My niece is asleep in my arm right now so hard to type hoc.

[Madoka]

Madoka, why do you put so much stock into people doubting our masons claims to as being towny - especially with regards to the monkey? Is in not possible scum would transparently question us if they actually had doubts of a gambit, since they want to kill more optimally in the night?

I do not believe I am. I think George had the the towniest reaction to your claim. My reasoning for town reading HEM is independent of what he thought about your claim. I think the way Holden treated it, however, was scummy because of how long he spent theorizing about your motivations. It was a waste of time for something that would be cleared up on its own.

[Madoka]

Can you point to what GeorgeBailey has said or done that led you to consider him actively engaged in the game?

He is just more active than he was in the previous Blitz. I do not think this is particularly alignment indicative. I simply mentioned it in the process of sorting my feelings.

[Madoka]

Specifically, why is this "super town" from monkey?

Oh! I had forgotten I even town read that. It was town because of how forward he was with it. There is no advantage to doubting the mason claim so hard as scum because it pins two players that know each other are town against you. I also like how immediate his reaction was to your claim. I can see from his perspective why he thought it was fake.

The reason why I find Holden's approach scummy, on the other hand, is because of how indirectly he is going about it. He is actively spending his time questioning the two of you when you are going to be sorted out eventually.

[Madoka]

Your town read on Holden is unwarranted by the way. He types his intro posts before the game. It is NAI. I recommend reading some of his scum meta.

[Madoka]

How is directly questioning them and trying to figure out the motivation behind the stunt they pulled if scum (the neighbor theorizing posts) indirect doubting especially since I haven't made a post directed at them for awhile?

I am speaking from a page 10 standpoint.

[Madoka]

I'll give the agreement that I was focused on Ulmat while most were not, especially given his reaction and his further posts pinging me.

➳ I am confused though on why my continued discussion about the Mason's stands out to you when others were actively discussing alternatives to the claims around the same time I brought up the neighbor's logic (from memory alone, Datisi, George, Shiki, and HEM). Not only was it a focus on the thread the time, but I also stopped after the reaffirmation by Ulmant in a later post like everyone else. Why does my discussion stand out to you?

➳ Further, Whats this "Holden doesn't let things go" you mention in the spoiled PbP analysis? You are giving yourself a reason to doubt your read logic which I find hard to believe actually exists (as I don't think letting things go = pressure)?

➳ Particularly in the HEM George reaction over my playstyle, how is it TMI? George was asked to compared by ISO from the newbie me and HEM played versus this game. It had nothing to do with the blitz game prior to this, and due to the differences in the length of day phases, I don't see how that is anymore TMI than a reasonable conclusion based on the comparison presented by HEM. The only way it makes sense is if george is scum, and he slipped that I am town since he knows I am town. But that sounds flimsy.

➳ Now onto the spoiled PBP analysis, whats the point in including words like "weird/interesting/hmm" etc. for an analysis and then not explain why they are such interesting bits? None of that actually explains anything AI, and only serves as fluff if you arent going to actually use those posts for anything AI.

➳

It is how much time you spent on it. In particular 187 - 189. Digging into their motivations seemed completely unnecessary at this point. It is possible, however, that my interpretation is biased by the fact that I am reading with the knowledge that they are hard claiming.

➳

In Blitz one you went in circles for days regarding the Night action plan and why it was best to lynch you. You were so fixated on it and I had to skim past it because of how unnecessary it was.

➳

Regarding the TMI, in 235 he is assigning intent behind your posts. There is a difference between saying:

"He's literally just been asking questions" and
"He's literally just been asking questions to get people to be more transparent with their reads."

Having insight into your intent is what is TMI. Similarly, in 244 he is presuming to know the reason why you are playing differently. This is especially weird because you already stated why you are playing differently, and that was not it. It is also weird because, while yes HEM brought up that newbie game as an

example

, his larger point was that you were playing different

in general

. George played with you in the previous Blitz, so the logic that your playstyle difference is due to the pacing does not hold up. He is focusing on the inconsequential difference between this and the newbie game, rather than the bigger point that HEM was trying to make. This indicates to me that he is not genuinely sorting you.

➳

I would not call the spoiled bit an analysis. My analysis is the non-spoiled bit. The spoiler is just for the sake of transparency, it is not there to communicate my thoughts. However, I am providing them so that you can see where my train of thought is at a given time and as a reference to the points I make in my evaluation.

I'm even more confused. You also in your catch up called plenty of my posts good/townie, so why do you assume that Hoctac's locktown post from earlier is the only reason someone could be townreading me?

Because I have not seen an indication that he has still been attempting to sort you since that post.

How is directly questioning them and trying to figure out the motivation behind the stunt they pulled if scum (the neighbor theorizing posts) indirect doubting

Because you were puzzling it out, whereas Monkey just said he did not believe it.

I get a feeling your read on me is stronger based on how you reconfirmed it without being asked to Hoctac here

Your feeling is incorrect. As you pointed out, I have gotten a number of town impressions from your posts as well, and they are stronger than those I have gotten from George.

So why not vote and pressure me directly?

I do not vote until I am ready to lynch. See Blitz I, Totally Real Food, and Hard Boiled Eggs.

[Madoka]

Madoka, is there a reason why you're not skimming the thread as you normally would and instead only methodically catching up over time? Is this a playstyle choice?

I make altercations to my playstyle from game to game. Partly so that I can mask tonal differences when I am scum and partly because I enjoy experimenting. For example, in this game I am making an effort to not use contractions (e.g. "I'm," "it's") outside of my pbp, though I keep slipping up. However, the methodical style is my preferred way of playing and I made this account specifically for using it.

[Madoka]

They're only gonna progressively get better since your submission

Not if I can help it

[Madoka]

Ok, I am all caught up!

[Madoka]

Less than 14 hours. I am quite sleepy and so not up to doing a thorough summary, but here are my notes:

Spoiler:

252 nai makes sense
253 nai
256 nai
257 nai
260 nai
261 da: not good
262 nai
264 nai maybe townish
267 nai
268 nai
270 ho: why are you still scumhunting masonssss
272 nai
273 da: i honestly cant buy that you dont believe the claim at this point. I also dont buy that you believe I am pushing in bad faith. You referenced me pushing you similarly before and you keep addressing me as if i am town
274 nai
277 da: this is example, you are drawing a comparison between this situation and when I pushed you similarly as confirmed town. This doesn't seem like the type of perspective a person who thinks I am pushing in bad faith would have
278 nai
279 da: town impression
301 nai
312 nai
319 hi: i agree with his point on hem on second read
321 nai
332 nai
335 nai
346 hi: hiraki's points are fair
349 nai
351 nai
355 nai
360 nai consistent
364 hi: thoughts are uncharacteristically clear and agreeable.
370 sh: not a lot said here
375 nai
382 i am going to miss shiki ]:
384 nai
387 hi: good tone, first point is indeed a stretch though, and he seems to be much more level headed and articulate than usual.
404 da: woah this gave me butterflies. not in a warmfuzzies sort of way, but in an omg its scum! sort of way. datisi's joke_annoyance with hoctac's shenanigans reads really fake to me, like he is trying to hold onto the perspective that the mason claim could still be untrue. It's scum faking ignorance. + for using the god-tier symbol though: the tilde. reading further, the whoa mindmeld looks fake too. reading further, datasi has now done what i believe to be a guranteed scum tell. i thought he did it earlier too but he had a reasonable explanation for it
409 nai but also bussy/oportunistic
413 ho: i dont see how town george would be lazy, but the rest of this post is good especially the last two lines
414 hi: ping -- hiraki has spoken positively about both me and shiki
415 ge: good tone
425 nai
428 nai
429 nervous
430 nai
434 da: no it isnt
435 hi: i didnt pick up that hiraki spoke positivly of umlaut as well. this is very much out of character from what ive seen of hiraki. albeit ive only been in two games.
436 da: i have reach confirmation bias point and can no longer read any of datisi's post without scumreading, so i am going to stop including them unless they are particularly notable.
444 nai
450 ge: iioa
451 nai
452 nvm ill still include them, nai
453 nai and good question
457 ge: WHAT?! This gave me goosebumps. Not the ooo that's nice kind. The woah this is pretty suspect kind. Why can't it by T v T?
459 cont.
456 cont..
462 ho: townie
463 wait literal goats?
464 nai
466 ge: what happened to preferring hem and feeling weary about the hiraki wagon?? (457)
467 hi: town indicative -- the counting bit
468 nai
472 ge: ok fair explanation to 466
475 nai
483 sh: im not sure what shiki means here
487 nai
489 nai
492 nai
494 nai
496 nai
497 nai
583 naiisuppose
516 nai
517 nai
523 nai
525 good
528 ho: seems very fair
530 nai
532 nai
534 good
536 nai
537 really like tone of this interaction

I guess I will lay out the essential stuff:

♡ I feel fairly confident datisi is scum (see note 404).
♡ I feel more positively about holden from our interaction.
♡ I still think HEM is town. I do not think the points on Hiraki are AI though.
♡ I think Hiraki may be image managing this game. He tends to be quite mean, but he has complimented me, shiki, and umlaut in some form. He also seems to be playing less assertively. This is not substantial enough to lynch him though. I think most of his content is reasonable. He misinterpreted HEM it seems, but I don't see that as AI. Not really having a solid scum read other than HEM is the biggest negative.
♡ George making HEM vs Hiraki as only T v S is really scummy.

I think lynching Datisi, George, and Hiraki in that order wins it.

VOTE: Datisi

[Madoka]

I had completely forgotten about Avenged Sevenfold

[Madoka]

I believe Umlaut. The reasoning that Umlaut is scum for lying is not valid because Hoctac also lied and he was town. I would like to run up Datisi.

VOTE: Datisi

[Madoka]

So who are you Masons with Datisi?

[Madoka]

Then why did you believe their claim here?

then hoctac kept pushing me for it and i still thought it was just a meme because if you're suspicious of someone pushing you to claim, why oh why would you claim immediately? plus i know hoctac is a joker so

but umlaut keeping at it is a different story i guess so UNVOTE:

[Madoka]

Ok.

[Madoka]

VOTE: Hiraki

[Madoka]

I linked a game with that setup

[Madoka]

HEM are you neighbors with Shiki?

[Madoka]

Are you partners with Shiki then? Because the way you have interacted with her reminds me of the way you interacted with bugspray.

I am also a VT.

[Madoka]

No, why would that be helpful.

[Madoka]

We have a mislynch, correct? I say we just lynch Hiraki and if he flips green it is HEM + Shiki.

[Madoka]

I am speaking from his perspective. Why on earth would he desire to waste time on something he knows not to be true.

[Madoka]

Uh huh.

[Madoka]

No, I am not going to spend time trying to explain vibe. The way he talks about Shiki reminds me of the way he talked about bugspray. Read it yourself or lynch me.

@datisi, I have no idea if it is Shiki + HEM until I see Hiraki's flip. This conversation is fruitless because it is speculation based on no evidence other than PoE.

[Madoka]

PoE which we do not yet have.

[Madoka]

I do not know.

[Madoka]

I am not changing my vote and I do not think there is anything more to discuss unless there is another PR claim, so I am leaving now.

[Madoka]

I’m sorry Holden, I misinterpreted your tone earlier.

[Madoka]

shiki, is Madoka scum?

Shiki, did you have an answer for this?

[Madoka]

But can you still explain why you believe Umlaut? IMO there's a lot of reasons not to believe him.
Also, how confident are you in that monkey-bugs were similar to monkey-shiki?

I will reconsider Umlaut, and I will look through the bugs stuff now.

[Madoka]

was waiting to see if either of you would point this out.

For what purpose?

[Madoka]

If it has not influenced your read, what was the use?

[Madoka]

I honestly do not know how everyone else (shiki) knew the mason claim was not legitimate. Her IQ is too high (or it is a knowledge slip from being Umlaut's partner).

[Madoka]

My vibe on the similarity between your interaction with Bugs in Blitz I and Shiki here comes from how often you mentioned them. Despite bugs being a town lean, you mentioned their name more than any player in Blitz I.

B1

Holden - 6 = 4%
Luca - 8 = 5%
George - 9 = 6%
Shiki - 9 = 6%
Madoka - 10 = 7%
Datisi - 29 = 19%
Hiraki - 30 = 20%
Bugs - 48 = 32%

B2

HoldenGolden - 2 = 1%
GeorgeBailey 10 = 6%
Datisi - 9 = 6%
Madoka -17 = 11%
Hoctac -19 = 11%
Umlaut - 23 = 14%
shiki - 30 = 18%
Hiraki -50 = 31%

(Approximate)

Additionally, both the way you've called out shiki's name here and the way you spoke of bugs felt unnatural to me, as if you were trying to keep in good light. That being said, it would be funny if Hiraki was actually your partner here and this is a legitimate partner tell.

[Madoka]

Also how is this factoring in the fact that bugs was the day 1 lynch which would force more interaction out of HEM versus here where Shiki hasn't had a serious bandwagon?

It does not matter. This is simply an attempt to communicate where my vibe was coming from in language other than 'vibe.' I do not at all think it is evidence that he is scum.

[Madoka]

Shiki, who would you have voted to lynch yesterday?

[Madoka]

The more that I think about it, the more I think gambit comes from town Umlaut. I think mafia would have been resistant to Hectic's plan, considering the backlash.

[Madoka]

HEM, in Blitz I you reacted to Hiraki scumreading you by scumreading him. You reacted the same here. And reacted the same to me when I asked if you and shiki were partners. Do you tend to do this as either alignment? And if so, would you be able to be able to provide an example of doing so as town?

[Madoka]

Also HEM why did you stop pursuing Hiraki as strongly as you were? Also do you think you may be pushing Umlaut more out of principle than legitimately finding his intentions scummy?

[Madoka]

I think the first line is incorrect. If you don't agree to the gambit, your partner thinks nothing or town reads you. If you agree to the gambit and kill your partner, you do not get town cred. The only thing the gambit was useful was the possibility of line two. Had they not died, we would know one or the other was scum. But one of them dying does not provide insight one way or the other.

As to why mafia would be resistant to the plan, because of how bad it makes them look among the town. We gave umlaut multiple chances to come clean and he could have used any of those as a way out of the gambit. You made it clear that if he was lying we would lynch him. The fact that he continued it any way I think is indicative that he was less concerned about self-preservation and more concerned about reading Hoc.

[Madoka]

We have two mislynches?

[Madoka]

Yes. All the more reason to lynch Hiraki!

[Madoka]

Oh nevermind, we only have one more free.

[Madoka]

I mean is 700 a perspective slip?

If we mislynch Umlaut and mislynch you, how would we lynch Hiraki after that?

[Madoka]

lol ok, I did the same thing too at first so yea

[Madoka]

I think Umlaut was more excited about the fact that Hectic was killed than he was about being clear. I do not think he thought he would be clear.

[Madoka]

I would be happy about it. Their goal was to draw the night kill and it worked.

[Madoka]

Hoc is not the easiest person to read. From Umlaut's perspective he got mafia to kill a difficult slot that had a good chance of being scum mechanically.

[Madoka]

The elimination of a difficult to read slot by mafia's hands as opposed to the town's.

[Madoka]

The elimination of a difficult to read slot by mafia's hands as opposed to the town's.

[Madoka]

Good night!

[Madoka]

I think I'm good with Umlaut + Hiraki as my scumteam.

Then you should vote for Hiraki who you were certain of being scum.

[Madoka]

i would have agreed to the gambit regardless of my alignment and i find it very likely you would have as well. if your argument is specifically that town!umlaut would have participated in the gambit and that scum!umlaut would not have, i would like to know what that is based on.

I would have initially, and then outed once Madoka requested that I tell the truth. That would have been optimal as it would have likely given me town points from both the town and my neighbor. Also, do you not think scum would be weary of continuing the claim after town stated they would lynch them if it came out later that they were lying?

[Madoka]

ENHANCE

[Madoka]

Regarding the argument, there was no lie. The post you quoted where I responded to Holden was not of me updating my read of Holden, it was elaborating on the read I had already stated (in response to Holden's inquiry). That interaction itself is what led to a town lean on Holden. As for you, if I recall, I believe I stated that I did not believe my suspicion was enough to justify lynching you (that day). Considering Datisi and George are town, I think it is more likely that you are scum.

[Madoka]

11 hours guys.

[Madoka]

No worries, thank you for taking over Clidd <3<3<3! I am completely burnt out of mafia and just did not have it in me to finish this.

Well done scum team! If it wasn't for PoE you both would have had me pocketed.

Shiki you are on a plane beyond. Have you ever thought about joining Mensa?

HEM cut down on mentioning your scumbuddy!

Well done Hiraki as well!