Micro 941 | Brass and Shrapnel | Game Over!

[clidd]

Hello all, I'm late, reading soon.

[clidd]

Votecount 1.4

Night 3 Roses(2)

~ Kilgamayan(11), ceejayvinoya(10)

ceejayvinoya(2)

~ Tuxedo Mask(18), Hoctac(24)

Tuxedo Mask(1)

~ HoldenGolden(34)

Kilgamayan(1)

~ enomis(3)

HoldenGolden(1)

~ DkKoba(36)

clidd(1)

~ Night 3 Roses(28)


Not Voting (1): clidd(0)

With 9 alive it takes 5 to lynch.

Day 1 deadline is in (expired on 2020-05-29 05:21:12)

Is there an RVS vote above ?

[clidd]

hardclaim Night 3 Bulletproof

VOTE: clidd



-D

It is a hemorrhagic pleasure to see you again, Mr Datisi. I hope we can win in the same alignment this time.

[clidd]

Heya. See a few familiar faces.

VOTE: Kilgamayan

YEE HAW

VOTE: Holden

Pew pew

VOTE: Holden The donkey knows what they did.

Hello!

Good playerlist. I think that the only person I don't remember playing with is Kilgamayan.

[clidd]

Hardclaiming insane novice macho cop/doc watcher btw

I remember you making some jokes in the initial stage of our past game, but nothing related to claims.

[clidd]

What's your thought behind this vote?

is this @ me?

and it's pretty normal for clidd. there's probably 5-page essay coming by him any second now.

-D

I am fatigued recently by the number of games I am currently playing, so I’ll probably be more passive here. No essay this time.

[clidd]

I mean, everyone that's not scum is going to flip PR :V

@clidd: I played two games here back in 2015 and this marks #3, so odds are p good we haven't played before together

Can you show me a town game and a scum game of yours ? I would like to take a quick look.

[clidd]

hi clidd im going to hardtunnel you again as you flip PR again

You should try to be less aggressive in this game to avoid eating the NK. If I were scum, you would already be sentenced to death because of the last few pages.

[clidd]

Ok, im done reading. Kilgamayan and Dkkoba are likely town, I have a TL on them (maybe I'll change my mind If see something on Kilga's meta)

I would like to know Ceejay's opinion about the pushs on his wagon and why his focus is still on Night 3 Roses, and not on the accusers.

[clidd]

Both of my games here were Town games. This one was played to completion; this one was aborted.

Scum games are a little harder to sensibly and relevantly come by. My most recent scum game is here, which is also from 2015, but the mechanics of that game were a bit wacky. If you want something other than that, there were a couple of Anon games whose accounts have since been repurposed several times, and then a game from 2009.

I was not able to absorb much of your scum game, but I intend to keep the TL based on the resolutive similarity between your towns games and here.

[clidd]

I need Ceejay to answer post 193.

[clidd]

Spoiler:

Datisi, is there a reason you unvote before placing your vote on ceejay? If the reason is to show us you were voting for someone prior, I do not understand the logic as you did not include the person's name with the unvote. Strange.

my previous post was talking about RVS votes, in which i said my vote was one of them, and it got clidd to respond to me with a Sherlock gif? s'there a point to this?

-D

Ah, I did not realise clidd had responded with a Sherlock gif. Is there a reason you unvote before voting in the same post?

because i said "

it

has served its purpose now" referring to my current vote? if you're expecting a profound thought behind it, i'm gonna have to disappoint you.

~

Man, my mind short-circuited for a moment there because I completely forgot that Holmes and Moriarty are actual characters that have appeared in many different mediums and not just a hot dude and a foxy grandpa from everyone's favorite cell phone game.

from the what

@Night 3 Roses: I think the post volume difference does matter in that a higher post volume comes across as an active attempt to look good whereas the lower post volume does not. To be sure, not contributing is generally a scummy thing, but I am more wary of someone that's actively trying to look good without actually contributing than someone's that not trying to look good while also not actually contributing.

I will admit I assumed you (or your slot, or whatever term is appropriate) didn't like ceejay or myself not because of any scumhunting justification, but simply because we're voting for you. Aside from Hoctac being unhappy with ceejay for not being original, no one else has seemed to have a problem with the nature of the pressure being applied to you, so I figured it was a safe assumption. I've seen so many players over the years do it, so.

you're assuming i'm trying to look good. i'm well aware of what "active lurking" is. i was posting because i felt like posting, and at the time what i felt like "actually contributing" either a thing that could've been ai was already dismissed as non-ai, or my question got ignored.

i can tell (or at least i like to believe i can...) the difference between good votes and bad votes on my slot, simply disliking/scumreading someone because they dare vote against me would be silly. i think your arguments are bad but they seem to be genuine. (un)fortunately ico is currently having some sorta holiday so i can't exactly bug him right now to ask what he thinks.

(particularly since my question about your potential alt-account-ness wasn't addressed)

are you saying it wasn't addressed by hoctac or did you miss the second part of 165?

-D

I like the

"your reasons for suspecting me look bad, but I think you're town"

mentality. It's the kind of thing that I find myself applying in every game as town.

I feel that a scum mentality is more inclined to apply omgus in this situation on the pretext that the accuser is acting in bad faith.

[clidd]

@N3R (can I call you this?): Flat-out lurking is certainly physically easier, but I think it's also much more likely to get noticed and called out, which is why I personally prioritize looking for minimal effort ahead of no effort.

@Holden: I think DkKoba's frustration reads as genuine. I used to be the same way philosophically about ED1 scumclaiming, and I know people that still are, so I can sympathize with the throwing up of the e-hands at the realization that no one else in the game was buying what they were selling when they thought they had something substantial.

There is a sense of genuineness coming from him, but that came afterwards where he admitted to doing soft pushes that were worth nothing.

As someone who used to be that way, did you escalate that quickly to assumptions like over defensiveness in who responded to your pushes? That's my main gripe with his posts is I feel the quickness of his escalation of frustration is off along with the AI charged language.

I don't believe I really ever escalated that way, but that may be largely because, whenever I pursued someone for scumclaiming as a "joke", I made no secret about that being the reason I was pursuing them. :V

Maybe it was

{REDACTED} Fake Edit: nvm I realized I don't actually want to publicly mention possible justifications for the escalated aggression. That's DkKoba's explanation to provide and I'd rather not list things and have them later point at one and go "yeah that's the one". I did think of a couple, though (including the possibility of it simply being scum BSing), and going back and rereading the argument I couldn't really make a case to myself as to which was the most likely reason.

@clidd: Sorry for not having anything more immediately helpful/relevant wrt scum games Anonymafia is fun but it's a nightmare rereading it after the fact even if one is involved.

Don't worry, I think it's even better for me to analyze you without established prejudices of your scumgame.

By the way, how is your current read on Ceejay?

[clidd]

Hoctac, is DkKoba's aggressive/provocative playstyle influencing your read about him ? Or should I consider this indifferent to your argument on post 214 ?

[clidd]

Spoiler:

Datisi, is there a reason you unvote before placing your vote on ceejay? If the reason is to show us you were voting for someone prior, I do not understand the logic as you did not include the person's name with the unvote. Strange.

my previous post was talking about RVS votes, in which i said my vote was one of them, and it got clidd to respond to me with a Sherlock gif? s'there a point to this?

-D

Ah, I did not realise clidd had responded with a Sherlock gif. Is there a reason you unvote before voting in the same post?

because i said "

it

has served its purpose now" referring to my current vote? if you're expecting a profound thought behind it, i'm gonna have to disappoint you.

~

Man, my mind short-circuited for a moment there because I completely forgot that Holmes and Moriarty are actual characters that have appeared in many different mediums and not just a hot dude and a foxy grandpa from everyone's favorite cell phone game.

from the what

@Night 3 Roses: I think the post volume difference does matter in that a higher post volume comes across as an active attempt to look good whereas the lower post volume does not. To be sure, not contributing is generally a scummy thing, but I am more wary of someone that's actively trying to look good without actually contributing than someone's that not trying to look good while also not actually contributing.

I will admit I assumed you (or your slot, or whatever term is appropriate) didn't like ceejay or myself not because of any scumhunting justification, but simply because we're voting for you. Aside from Hoctac being unhappy with ceejay for not being original, no one else has seemed to have a problem with the nature of the pressure being applied to you, so I figured it was a safe assumption. I've seen so many players over the years do it, so.

you're assuming i'm trying to look good. i'm well aware of what "active lurking" is. i was posting because i felt like posting, and at the time what i felt like "actually contributing" either a thing that could've been ai was already dismissed as non-ai, or my question got ignored.

i can tell (or at least i like to believe i can...) the difference between good votes and bad votes on my slot, simply disliking/scumreading someone because they dare vote against me would be silly. i think your arguments are bad but they seem to be genuine. (un)fortunately ico is currently having some sorta holiday so i can't exactly bug him right now to ask what he thinks.

(particularly since my question about your potential alt-account-ness wasn't addressed)

are you saying it wasn't addressed by hoctac or did you miss the second part of 165?

-D

I like the

"your reasons for suspecting me look bad, but I think you're town"

mentality. It's the kind of thing that I find myself applying in every game as town.

I feel that a scum mentality is more inclined to apply omgus in this situation on the pretext that the accuser is acting in bad faith

.

Where is your town lean on Phoneix Human Rights coming from? Although it requires flipping the roles accuser and defendent, he expressed among his posts I was acting in bad faith to why he asked. Is the logic invaildied when reversed in your PoV?

Was the eariler remark about him toning down his aggression to avoid being NK by scum a reference to a previous game?

If you're talking about Kilgamayan, It comes from my subjective impressions of him, nothing analytical that I can measure at the moment. I didn't notice, in what post did he express that ?

If you are referring to post 192, it is basically a warning for him to decrease the intensity of his aggression (DkKoba).

[clidd]

Spoiler:

Datisi, is there a reason you unvote before placing your vote on ceejay? If the reason is to show us you were voting for someone prior, I do not understand the logic as you did not include the person's name with the unvote. Strange.

my previous post was talking about RVS votes, in which i said my vote was one of them, and it got clidd to respond to me with a Sherlock gif? s'there a point to this?

-D

Ah, I did not realise clidd had responded with a Sherlock gif. Is there a reason you unvote before voting in the same post?

because i said "

it

has served its purpose now" referring to my current vote? if you're expecting a profound thought behind it, i'm gonna have to disappoint you.

~

Man, my mind short-circuited for a moment there because I completely forgot that Holmes and Moriarty are actual characters that have appeared in many different mediums and not just a hot dude and a foxy grandpa from everyone's favorite cell phone game.

from the what

@Night 3 Roses: I think the post volume difference does matter in that a higher post volume comes across as an active attempt to look good whereas the lower post volume does not. To be sure, not contributing is generally a scummy thing, but I am more wary of someone that's actively trying to look good without actually contributing than someone's that not trying to look good while also not actually contributing.

I will admit I assumed you (or your slot, or whatever term is appropriate) didn't like ceejay or myself not because of any scumhunting justification, but simply because we're voting for you. Aside from Hoctac being unhappy with ceejay for not being original, no one else has seemed to have a problem with the nature of the pressure being applied to you, so I figured it was a safe assumption. I've seen so many players over the years do it, so.

you're assuming i'm trying to look good. i'm well aware of what "active lurking" is. i was posting because i felt like posting, and at the time what i felt like "actually contributing" either a thing that could've been ai was already dismissed as non-ai, or my question got ignored.

i can tell (or at least i like to believe i can...) the difference between good votes and bad votes on my slot, simply disliking/scumreading someone because they dare vote against me would be silly. i think your arguments are bad but they seem to be genuine. (un)fortunately ico is currently having some sorta holiday so i can't exactly bug him right now to ask what he thinks.

(particularly since my question about your potential alt-account-ness wasn't addressed)

are you saying it wasn't addressed by hoctac or did you miss the second part of 165?

-D

I like the

"your reasons for suspecting me look bad, but I think you're town"

mentality. It's the kind of thing that I find myself applying in every game as town.

I feel that a scum mentality is more inclined to apply omgus in this situation on the pretext that the accuser is acting in bad faith.

I disagree with this, clidd. Anti-OMGUS is actually a slight scumtell, though context is king of course. However, I am pleased to hear that you refrain from exhibiting OMGUS as town.

Yes, context always speaks louder. I believe that my comment is generally comparable to my experience in both alignments and the way I portray the omgus.

[clidd]

Hum, so the logic I announced on post 248, theoretically, should be applicable to the interaction between you and DkKoba and influence the read I have on him, correct ? if so, I'm afraid I can't apply to him what I said on post 248, because the context of my read on his behavior is different from the assessment I have of Datisi, for example. The contextualization (as Hoctac commented) is a great read changer and creates different segments between slots. Does that make sense to you ?

[clidd]

But I would say that the main reason for my TL on him is because of our experience in a past game, which made me assimilate with his behavior here. So far I haven't seen anything that gives me a scummy impression of him.

This game: https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=82731

[clidd]

I need Ceejay to answer post 193.

I need Ceejay to read post 234.

[clidd]

there. its clidd

*Trying to understand the reasoning of the drawings*

[clidd]

I would like to know Ceejay's opinion about the pushs on his wagon and why his focus is still on Night 3 Roses, and not on the accusers.

Hoctac is likely town, I'm not voting him.

Want to see more from tuxedo.

This is a weird thought but why were you assuming I would scum read my accusers?

I am assuming that you would pay more attention to the accusers, in order to clarify the reasons why they are voting for you, so you can assess who has plausible and non-plausible motivations, and to persuade about the withdrawal of votes. From your perspective, they are in a 100% town wagon, so it is interesting to redirect these votes to another place, with more chances to hit scum.

[clidd]

Ok, im done reading. Kilgamayan and Dkkoba are likely town, I have a TL on them (maybe I'll change my mind If see something on Kilga's meta)

I would like to know Ceejay's opinion about the pushs on his wagon and why his focus is still on Night 3 Roses, and not on the accusers.

where's the Kilgamayan townread coming from?

It's a impression. I skipped the text I would normally do in this case and went straight to the conclusion.

[clidd]

I asked for a scumgame to have a basis on how his scum behavior manifested itself and see whether there was any deviation in conduct compared to the current game. Considering that I was not able to absorb the content of these games very well to profile Scum!Kilgamayan, and also the fact that I do not have a previous experience with this player, I concluded that the real-time evaluation would be more accurate.

[clidd]

[clidd]

And Ceejay, I remember doing a metaread on you, I'll take a look to find the game.

[clidd]

And Ceejay, I remember doing a metaread on you, I'll take a look to find the game.

I found the game: https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=82235.

(post 148, page 6 ~ stretch)

I had a hard time finding any scum games from him, given the favorable statistical chance for the green line-up. Therefore, I drew a comparison with 5 games of his past games (town). His pattern is based on a structure of simple intuitive phrases and vague actions, with more than one interpretation. I noticed that he is usually lynched a lot in games as town, due to the lynch policy. The style is identical to what he is following in this game (as in any game, regardless of alignment). It is strongly probable that, if he is not eliminated by lynch, he will last until the end of the game, precisely because he is not an expressive vocal antagonist, therefore, he is not a threat to the scum side. Particularly, I am indifferent to his position now, considering the lack of accuracy in my read about players who share that kind of trait.

I remember that you have a significant mislynch rate as town, and you are usually quite vague in terms of spontaneous scumread reasons. One difference that I noticed at the beginning of that game (that you were scum), is that your behavior was more evasive at the beginning of the game, opting for some TLs and only later advancing to bad impressions that would justify voting. Here, however, you started the game by announcing a impression about Holden, which was basically a slight initial push, but which did not feature any serious read. In that sense, I imagine that the initiative suggests an approximation of your meta as Town!Ceejay than necessarily the avoidance of Scum!Ceejay, but nothing SO glaring that influences your displacement from the null zone. I don't feel comfortable having you as SL or TL yet.

[clidd]

@Clidd

I was not able to absorb much of your scum game, but I intend to keep the TL based on the resolutive similarity between your towns games and here.

Was there no similarity between his scum game and his game here? Why TL based just similarity between town games. Maybe he play the same way as scum?

I asked for a scumgame to have a basis on how his scum behavior manifested itself and see whether there was any deviation in conduct compared to the current game. Considering that I was not able to absorb the content of these games very well to profile Scum!Kilgamayan, and also the fact that I do not have a previous experience with this player, I concluded that the real-time evaluation would be more accurate.

Saw this post. But my previous question is still valid. Do you think similarity between one meta town game and the game here gives you more townread on Kilga.

Perhaps there is a more linear proximity between the scumgame and his towngame that I was unable to identify with meta, but I intend to find out as the game progresses. I'm not sure if my TL is correct, but I intend to keep it until I have a better position on the slot.

[clidd]

stop reading meta. unless someone ahs played this setup multiple times b4 ur not gonna be able to striclty meta read them based on that. people act different based on role rolled

Meta is an auxiliary material that I have been using since my first game on the forum, it is not now that I will get rid of it.

[clidd]

no

Do you feel their reads or scum hunting has been flawed? If so what posts?

Yes, I understand you disagree with their meta based style, however do you believe they have reached incorrect conclusions using it?

i wouldt know yet! but i refuse to read previous games that are not the same setup.

Yes, this is the *context* that I had commented on earlier. I just need to find an applicable medium here.

[clidd]

I'm back.

[clidd]

Spoiler:

i answerd ur dumb questions nerd nerd and ur pivot is not logically consistent. ur tone towards me suggested u thought i was town. so ur sudden pivot is not genuine.

i answerd ur dumb questions nerd nerd and ur pivot is not logically consistent. ur tone towards me suggested u thought i was town. so ur sudden pivot is not genuine.

Let's keep it civil.

I know you answered my dumb questions, that's why I voted you. I disliked the answer. You still don't have anything to point to that shows Clidd's methods are wrong. What posts do you believe make me voting you now disingenuous?

Also, if you really think I'm so full of shit, why aren't you voting me?

because I don't need to vote you to be right

ur pivot is fake and if you try to keep it up its probably a scum pivot.

because I don't need to vote you to be right

Like, I guess you're right? You're still not refuting any of my greater points. I feel like you're just testing how serious I am.

I am serious, I'm still waiting for you to show hypocrisy in my train of thought, and to show a substantive reason to change their entire playstyle on your account. As you're not, and not even engaging with that point, I am scum reading you.

no youre not

if i am still voted by the time i finish the next 2 drinks the votes going on u

This has been a rather poor interaction. I'm going to chalk it up to you being drunk/testing me. Tomorrow you can address my points, or push your read on me. Until then, enjoy yourself and have a goodnight.

your push is still fake.

[clidd]

DkKoba, you need to take the questioning a little more seriously. The forum is more judicious compared to Epicmafia in the sense of questions and answers. Tuxedo will have a valid point to have a scumread on you if there is negligence in collaboration.

[clidd]

[clidd]

To be honest, I'm having a hard time finding scum on this game. Hoctac is the closer to being scum on my PoE. My read on Ceejay has changed due to a change in perspective and I think he is town.

[clidd]

Ceejay, who do you FoS ?

[clidd]

[clidd]

I'll do a rank of impressions.