Micro 941 | Brass and Shrapnel | Mafia PT

[Datisi]

also /cofirm mafia goon yadda yadda

[Datisi]

okay, i can probably type some stuff up. i'm far from a pro though. have you played with anyone on the list before?

[Datisi]

okay. i've played with holden and clidd from out of those. clidd and i always kinda end up scumreading each other lmao. i've played a bit with hoctac, and neither of us is able to accurately read the other. i've played with ceejay, also have a hard time reading him, he can be lurky. i have seen DKKoba and enomis through modding, but haven't played with them.

i have a lot of experience with iconeum, but he's in my slot, so

[Datisi]

okay, so mechanics wise. i have played this setup once before (with clidd and hoctac, haha), and here's the jist: i would heavily encourage non-bussing, since if we're both alive come night, we can use a factional heal on the person doing the kill - that was that person is protected from both a vigi shot and a potential bomb.

it's in town's best interest not to ever claim which roles they are (until massclaim), and to make the scummiest players hammer (in case of supersaint), so i'm probably gonna open with a mechanic post like that.

also, i'm currently a tad bit overgamed, so Ico will probably be mostly playing in our slot for a bit.

[Datisi]

if it weren't already obvious, i talk a lot in scumchat, and my general startegy when playing scum is to constantly talk in here and plan ahead - now obviously we won't be able to plan perfectly because this is a role madness setup and whatnot, but eh.

regarding roleclaims, my first instinc is for one of us to claim vigilante, and one of us to claim bomb/supersaint, however if we're in one of the 25% chance setups there migh be merit in both os uf claiming the same "group". dunno yet, would have to think about it.

what timezone are you btw? both Ico and I are european, CET, and it's around 11:30pm right now.

[Datisi]

the setup is a bit complicated and i recommend reading the wiki page about it. there will probably be discussion about it tomorrow. which is good and well for us, but we need to be careful not to fall into the trap of talking only about the setup and not scumhunting, that's gonna get us in trouble eventually.

[Datisi]

if you need anything sorted out setup-wise, lemme know. this is pretty mechanics-heavy.

mafia strategy is a different story. i guess my best advice would be that you're generally never as "caught" as you well. town is dumb, they don't know. you yourself know you're scum so everything you do automatically feels scummy to you, if that makes sense. as for the rest, my general idea is always "plan stuff out with my partner(s)", which is why i rely on daytalk a lot. And why my last game had a scum PT that was longer than the main game.

i'm probably gonna try to interact with you in thread a lot, one mistake scum sometimes makes is ignoring their partners.

[Datisi]

awesome, awesome, i love when my partners are chatty. i remember my first scumgame, my partner (an SE, i was still a newbie) had that fear too, but we ended up planning the majority of the stuff out anyway, and it turned out fine. my theory is that discussing the game makes us more "aware" of it in a sense, and gives us the ability to better know what we can or can't (or should or shouldn't) post. maybe this doesn't go for anyone, but i like the approach. planning out the endgame even right after gamestart.

ooh, which game did you read? and no, if we are both alive, i think we always use the doc on whichever one is performing the kill. however, if one of us is dead, the other one cannot self-heal, so then our best bet is trying to roleblock a vigilante if we think they will shoot us. which is why i said, it would really help us if we both stayed alive as long as possible.

[Datisi]

Ah, I was hoping you'd read Micro 915, all of me, hoctac, and clidd played there.

knowing holden and hoctac, they're both probably gonna have another gimmick this game... gonna try to take it easy myself, this setup is pretty swingy anyway.

[Datisi]

i don't think you'll get anything useful from it, honestly, it really wasn't an interesting game.

[Datisi]

i just meant that, since you said you've read *a* game of this setup, that it'd be funny if it was that one. i don't think it's actually *useful* though.

[Datisi]

i guess my best advice would be that you're generally never as "caught" as you well

reskimming, what the hell. as caught as you think, not as well. lmao i need to start fixing my sleep schedule.

[Datisi]

i am both barely literate AND tired. beat that.

yeah, i definitely wouldn't want you to read one of my worst town performances to date

thank you! it's the asshole sou hiyori from your turn to die. and i think i can guess what your pfp's character is called

[Datisi]

a person i was Masons with in one game a while back told me about it. now i'm passing it along in a scum PT. fun stuff.

dragon won't mind, he talks a lot too. though i'm not sure how often will the two of you be online at the same time, considering his sleep schedule is actually decent, unlike mine...

also my prediction is that i'll have to explain mechanics to him anyway, he's not The Best with them.

[Datisi]

Ico if you get our slot lynched i swear to god

Also do you get the mechanics

[Datisi]

oh yeah, some "basic advice" in play - take stances, aviod being "wishy-washy" - a lot of time scum is caught when it becomes obvious they're not scumhunting, not taking stances, that they don't really ~care~ what happens (tho don't go in the other extreme and make it obvious you're making stuff up)

and you should probably avoid nullreading us if possible, scum often does that to their partner if they don't know how to interact

[Datisi]

as expected, there will be discussion about should we massclaim vs should we play normally. if you want to chime in, play the "newbie card" and ask about the setup you can, though (1) make sure you get there naturally (like don't just jump in now when you didn't earlier) and (2) make sure it's not the *only* thing you're talking about. what do you mean about trapping them with it btw?

as what would be better for us... i honestly am not sure. i think i'd rather play this "normally" at least until Day 2 because we gotta decide what we're gonna fakeclaim, but i don't think one stratery is generally "better" for any team than the other. at least i haven't worked it out.

[Datisi]

that'd be fun. i'm kinda ~eh on it working though, since i think it's natural for Town to scumhunt in addition of mechanic talk, plus for that you'd also have to constantly be pushing for mech talk as well. i think if opportunity presents (i.e., if someone in the Town does talk a lot about the setup on their own) we could use that for a push, but i'm not sure we can naturally "lead" them to only talking about the setup without us also being guilty of it.

[Datisi]

i like that you're already planning ahead though it's a good plan, but i'm not sure i know how to perform it without also becoming one of the "only-mech-talk" folk.

[Datisi]

hey, keep the ideas coming.

(pretty sure dragon boi won't mind) i'm not quite sure. icon and i have pretty different playstyles, and while he usually gets scumread early, i'm usually townread early, so i'm also looking forward to seeing how this hydra is gonna work lol. i'm hoping the two of us will (meaning, your and our slot) will have some interaction in thread, and to see where your read on us "develops" from there. now, ideally you will be townreading us, (as i said before, we're much stronger if there's 2 of us due to doc heal), but if bussing is needed to win i'm not gonna complain.

[Datisi]

actually reading again, i think DkKoba is a mechanic oriented player, they might fall into the "trap" themself. can't plan for it really, but i think it's something to keep in mind.

[Datisi]

Oh it's fine, this is pretty "low intensity" theatre, since it's stuff that's pretty mechanic-y and dealing with past games. It's good, no worries.

Maybe if it's something more "heavy" or "difficult" (i hope you get what i mean lmao) then give me a heads up, but these basic interactions are chill.

I mean, if town decides to be stupud and spend most of the time discussing mechanics, we won't stop them

[Datisi]

me in scumchat: we shouldn't push useless banter about mechanics
me in thread:

pushes useless banter about mechanics

[Datisi]

i can't wait for clidd to barge in some page 5-6 with a 10k word essay on how and why he's got the game solved.

[Datisi]

yeah, same. was scumbuddies with him once. that was fun.

pedit: until you said i didn0t even notice, my brain automatically corrected that.

[Datisi]

holden 2 for 2 on voting scum lmao

[Datisi]

goddammit dkkoba ruined perfectly good shitposting stage.

[Datisi]

They all gotta die.

[Datisi]

hmm. i'm generally paranoid of being seen as white-knight-y (when scum disproportionately defends a townie being scumread), so don't "overdo" it, but probing in that direction wouldn't be a bad thing i think.

[Datisi]

damn, fear of being seen as white-knighting by defending too hard vs fear of being seen as wishy-washy not caring scum... lmao i overthink a lot

[Datisi]

by the way, do you usually have such a "formal" tone?

i think i have a tendency to more often scumread "formal" tone vs townread "informal" tone, but that might be just projecting.

[Datisi]

i might, i generally don't really look up meta on players i haven't played with before, as i just tend to conf-bias myself into whatever read i already had.

by the way, newbie 2001 is ongoing, you're not allowed to talk about it, even though you're dead.

[Datisi]

i find it amusing how yours and dkkoba's avatars seem to be looking at each other.

[Datisi]

me too, generally calling something "word salad" carries the implication of "you're scum pretending to be more active than you really are". might comment on that later.

(also, dkkoba's a they)

pedit: if they're completed, yeah.

[Datisi]

haha, i forgot about that post! and it's the same moderator too...

[Datisi]

we know what you did george

[Datisi]

VOTE: georgebailey

gg i was scum

[Datisi]

oh boy, koba's MS paint setup spec. can't wait.

[Datisi]

well, at least we're not massclaiming today i guess.

[Datisi]

Yay, 4 new pages while i was asleep

[Datisi]

Oh shit ico is on and had the exact same reply i was gonna make to klig lel

Also i think? he's hinting that scum can fakeclaim vig that shot the supersaint but I'm not sure as I'm still half asleep

[Datisi]

i think i'm gonna townread you in thread. should we flip, it will probably be seen as buddying. generally it's thought scum doesn't have the guts to hard townread their partner lmao

[Datisi]

ye, i'm probably gonna play to my "omgus no u shut the fuck up" persona, plus dragon told me over discord this morning that's kinda what he thought too... how would you be reading us if town?

[Datisi]

you can do that, sure. though i have a feeling my "explanation" may still not be over, but it's chill. do you usually do reaslist early btw?

[Datisi]

it's more a sense of "style" maybe, but i obviously don't know of your town game so it's a bit hard for me to say.

aight, i think it's useful as scum to always have your "reads" in mind, helps if make "progressions" or if you need to call back to them later.

[Datisi]

i was planning on maybe "arguing" with you about your Koba's read, depending what was the "that" in "i can't see scum doing that", but if you're not posting a readslist yet then obviously not. we'll find something, i don't want us to sound forced.

[Datisi]

do you believe me when i say i'm enjoying this game more than the majority of my recent town games?

[Datisi]

sometimes i keep two different browsers open, with one account logged in on each one, but for this instance i've been logging in and out.

i think my argument would be that "bravado" like that can be faked, and that i didn't see him solve that much (though i'd have to relook at his iso to see if i really wanna bring up that second point).

glad to hear! usually i'm pretty stressed as scum, but surprisingly this game i'm pretty chill so far, despite getting under fire early. maybe it's the result of my last few town games being annoying as all hell.

[Datisi]

as i've never played with koba, probably just disagreeing with a townread.

[Datisi]

eh, sure

[Datisi]

my idea is that i want hoctac to clarify whether that vote was serious or not before i "reveal" my stance, as he can easily backtrack if my stance is negative due to his jokey-ness so far. if you wanna press a bit further, you can.

[Datisi]

btw, i'm probably crashing a bit early tonight, so if ya want me to do anyhing specific tomorrow, leave me a note here

[Datisi]

ye, that's one of the downsides of the jokey atmosphere, i've no clue about most of the people here.

as for long term plans, i'm not sure how much we can plan considering a lot of this game is gonna be decided by how the night phase goes, and how the massclaim tomorrow goes. i think a good plan for now would be to try to be as towny as possible to most importantly avoid being lynched, and additionally avoid having to be the hammer.

lategame gets a bit dicey, as either a supersaint or a bomb in the endgame could force us into a draw or a loss, but right now there's too much variation as we basically know nothing about the setup.

pedit: aight, yeah, that'd be how i'd answer as town usually.

[Datisi]

not necessarily. say it's 3v2 lylo, and we hammer a supersaint, meaning both them and one of us flip - if the remaining two town players were a vig and a different supersaint, the last scum could force a win by blocking the vig and shooting whoever. now, this is also risky, as town *could* be lying about their roles (SS claiming bomb and vice versa), but there are edge cases like these where a quickhammer in lylo would be in our favour.

but that's what i mean, it's a bit difficult for me to plan out lylo/mylo as there's so many different variations. if you want, i can write up a mech post on mylo/lylo before the end of day if necessary, if it seems like our slot's going to die (either by lynch or by hammer).

[Datisi]

also, agreed on CJ wagon probably catching steam, but in my experience the "first" non-RVS wagon of the day is not that commonly the lynch, which is why i said, keep on looking townie, as townies often change quickly.

[Datisi]

Hey, we're pretty much required to successfully perform lylo if we wanna win, i HOPE it's necessary.

And sure, just don't go straight up chainsaw defense. Probably.

[Datisi]

hardclaim Night 3 Bulletproof

VOTE: clidd



-D

It is a hemorrhagic pleasure to see you again, Mr Datisi. I hope we can win in the same alignment this time.

i am currently suffering from insomnia also have i ever said how much i love clidd?

[Datisi]

fucken mood tbh. also why no good moriarty gifs i can reply with ugh

[Datisi]

i love how the agreement of this hydra was "ico does heavy lifting i skate by because I'm already overgamed and overmodded" but due to timezones and darn holidays i'm doing the most playing

[Datisi]

it's not really quarantine, i'm just having trouble with my uni. probably gonna go to a different one, but keeps me up at night sometimes.

[Datisi]

thank you for the kind wishes by the way. i genuinely appreciate it.

[Datisi]

Hard to tell. This setup was *made* for people to throw softclaims around.

[Datisi]

ceejayvinoya(2) ~ Tuxedo Mask(19), Night 3 Roses(34)

this is a fucking lol.

[Datisi]

jumped in a positive or negative way?

[Datisi]

okay the wagon is dissolving yay good job me gold star i might even not get lynched day 1 kekw

[Datisi]

i mean, people often think scum is "afraid" of voting along their partners, and few people can do VCA, even fewer people do effective VCA

I know holden likes doing it but i don't know how accurately he does it

[Datisi]

me:

sees clidd say he likes one (1) of my posts

me: the game is over, for i have just won.

[Datisi]

yee, i'm getting that feeling a bit too. i'm trying to think what the best course of action with koba would be, but still not sure.

[Datisi]

i'm feeling kinda low-energy, was hoping to go to sleep and let (read make) ico actually goddamn post for once.

[Datisi]

uhh i'll decide after koba answers but i was planning to maybe let the thread breathe a bit from my side (which might or might not be connected to me being lazy and at the moment hating mafia as a whole)

[Datisi]

hmm i feel myself acting annoying, sorry about that

[Datisi]

meh, my mind is scrambled, often happens when i don't sleep well.

i'm thinking we don't necessarily both have to be online to do theatre, like i (or dragon ahem) could respond to your koba post later/tomorrow and take an argument from there.

[Datisi]

I think you guys need to chillax a bit, it's probably in your nature to be anxious and paranoid especially as scum :p

this is true can confirm

[Datisi]

a note for later because i will most probably forget

@ico, this is your post in question, should probably reply to it when you get back

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p11838981

[Datisi]

[GeorgeBailey]

[Datisi]

[GeorgeBailey]

[Datisi]

[GeorgeBailey]

[Datisi]

[GeorgeBailey]

[Datisi]

i don't know, i feel like a lot of this game is currently going over my head. did holden say what his read on you is? i don't think he has?

[Datisi]

to be fair, i think this is a pretty slow moving game so far.

[Datisi]

meh, it'll make the game spicy at the very least.

[Datisi]

have you expressed a townread/lean on koba earlier? if not, i think this is fine, at least to ~start discussion~ or whatever

also i have a feeling drunk!koba won't like it but lol

[Datisi]

i don't think you're in a bad position right now, and from what I've seen from you so far i think you're gonna do fine. Koba isn't low hanging fruit either i think. i'll have to think about how i want to react to whatever happens now tomorrow. we'll see

[Datisi]

hmm. You know your own posts better than i do, did your own tone suggest that? And yeah, i also get the feeling they're pushing back for the sake of seeing your reaction

[Datisi]

i think that's fine to keep them going.

and don't worry about it. I don't know how ~long~ I'll still be here, but you're not bothering me in the slightest! I feel like I'm currently the lazy teammate out of the two of us haha

[Datisi]

i think an argument can be made somewhere that the way you spoke to koba is how you usually speak and isn't reflecting a read you have on a person, but that depends on which exactly posts are they referring to

I skimmed your iso and i didn't see it exactly but

[Datisi]

either they're drunk out of their mind or they're reaction testing imo, that last post refusing to vote you is really weird.

[Datisi]

hnnnggg, gut tells me that's a reaction test and if you do back down it's gonna be seen as a scum backpedal, but i'm never quite sure with players like koba

pedit: ehh not sure what you mean

[Datisi]

frankly i feel you currently have a better ~grasp~ on the gamestate than i do so i'd bote towards you listening to yourself rather than me

(also they)

[Datisi]

ok i have no idea at this point tbh i'm bad at reaction tests from all angles

[Datisi]

shhh dude you're not doing it out of malice don't be hard on yourself

Also do you have any wishes/ideas for how you want me to react to this spat?

[Datisi]

also i sleep now probably it's already 4:30 yay

[Datisi]

he's coming back on monday due to weekend v/la, so there's plenty more we can cook up in the meantime

[Datisi]

i would argue he didn't really vote you

[Datisi]

ceejay unvoted me. boring.

[Datisi]

this might be galaxy brain idea that is probably wrong, but something makes me think that koba is a bomb. if we end up lynching someone else today, perhaps there's merit in letting them get shot by a couple of vigis... though i'm not 100% in them being a bomb so i'm not sure. throwing out ideas so far.

[Datisi]

i think that's okay, except maybe for the part saying "they were drunk so i won't hold it against them", imo it feels condescending in a scummy way?

[Datisi]

i'm not sure if you should, since it might be seen as opportunistic, but you were already voting there before... i'm not quite sure.

[Datisi]

ah yeah, the "everything you and your scumpartner do seems 100x scummier to you" thing, i forget sometimes. i think that's fine. sorry it's my turn on drinking lmao i'm not thinking clearly, also will be going out soon so uhhh

lmao am i supposed to be coaching here i'm useless aaaaaaa

ok

we good

[Datisi]

if i get legit drunk i might post in the main thread because there is a running joke between me and hoctac that drunkposting = locktown (thinking back idk how that will fare for our koba push but oops)

[Datisi]

mhm.

also i used that trick when i was scum against hoctac in micro 919 so dunno if it's gonna work again

[Datisi]

aaand my plans got cancelled. seriously considering getting drunk anyway.

[Datisi]

what is it that you got

[Datisi]

what i said is not a lie btw, i have a super hard time reading people that are Yelling All The Time, and that's lost me at least 2 games so far, with almost losing me one game too, because my first instinct is to go "ok ur town stop yelling at me"

[Datisi]

which one?

[Datisi]

aww shit i don't remember kekw

it was probably connected with a read on them or something, but considering hoctac isn't really doing anything right now idk if i would reply to that as town either

[Datisi]

my last "real" scumgame was basically won by openwolfing with my partner. you'd be surprised how blind can town be sometimes.

also with at least one person seeing you as TvT we shall see what happens

also i think we kill holden tonight lmao

[Datisi]

i feel like such an ass going "idk how to read koba ico you do it" but lol

[Datisi]

i mean, if you get him to CoNvInCiNgLy TaLk yOu oUt Of iT

at this point i'm just finding this whole game amusing and tryin to have a good time you feel

[Datisi]

at least 85% of my plan in this game is "lol vigs are prolly gonna have bad aim right".

[Datisi]

that's all fine and dandy except (1) the doc heal saves from just one shot, not all of them, (2) the doc is there to protect us from a possible bomb too, not only vig shots, and (3) even if multiple blanks shoot you, they will claim it tomorrow, and at some point town will go "ok that's too many vigs you probably got healed"

[Datisi]

well, my idea is that there's a "somewhat" chance of shooting a bomb, and a "somewhat" chance of getting shot by a live vig, but a relatively low chance of both happening, so it is kinda "use it against both in one go", yeah i should've made myself clearer.

[Datisi]

hmm, i was about to comment something about being careful about pushing someone for "anti-town" things, because once my partner almost got lynched over doing that, but judging by koba's reply it might not be too bad... i dunno anymore ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Datisi]

ehh, because people often play to their alignments, not roles? i think ceejay said that earlier too.

lmao i'm replying to koba here kekw

[Datisi]

i don't know. that's my devil's advocate voice. i think it's something that can be added to a reply. "especially as we agreed to play this day 1 normally". like if you already had an idea for a reply, this can be an "addition" i guess.

[Datisi]

before you ask, my next response would probably be something along the lines of "ok dokkoba"

[Datisi]

is that not our job description?

[Datisi]

honestly, i don't know. that's one of my ~problems~ when playing scum, i have a hard time figuring out what my uninformed stance would be for a lot of events (granted, my philosophy is "who gives a damn what town!datisi would think, town!datisi isn't here", so eh). i wanna say "annoying TvT spat", but i can't tell with certainty.

[Datisi]

also as said, my read on koba would be "???" due to their aggression anyway, so.

[Datisi]

I think this is the first time i as scum have felt a desire to outright start shit

Let's see what happens

[Datisi]

i think we've created this weird gamestate where we're not that scummy but most others aren't that scummy either so everyone is kinda confused and feeling around (except for holden holden has to die)

depending on my motivation to

~powerwolf burn the City to the ground~

i might play town leader for a bit, we'll see

[Datisi]

Fuck i drunkposted

[Datisi]

I'm so sorry

[Datisi]

This is scum pt yes

Im scum in this game

Im scum irl

[Datisi]

Tuxedo yes

Why is your avatar stretchdd out my dude

[Datisi]

Friend brough me water yay

[Datisi]

Ok gotra go

[Datisi]

hi i'm sober-er than before

oh no did i drunkpost in the scumchat again

[Datisi]

lmao it's third scumgame in a row that i drunkpost in scumchat

one might argue it's the fact i happen to play scum when i'm drinking but shhh

i'm okay no worries, i'm tired as hell tho will hopefully sleep soon

also glad you found some part of that funny

also also genuinely why is your avatar stretched like that

like

this is 100x100 (which eyeballing it i still think is stretched out a bit by the sides, but i just took your avi and squished it) (not to mention is still a bit blurry but meh this is a quick fix)


this is your avi at 120x100


this is the source no?


so just why? ?? ???? ?

[Datisi]

do you want me to edit it

legends say i can use picture editing software with non-catastrophic results

[Datisi]

i made three versions

are any of these good

[Datisi]

(it's ok if it's a no)

[Datisi]

Prince Darien is pretty again!

[Datisi]

Idk no idea my plan was to sleep and see what ico does when he comes back from vla tomorrow morning lmao

Pedit not yet no, prob either both claim vig or 1 vig 1 nonvig, but much easier to say once i see some flips

[Datisi]

I vaguely had an idea of having some string of posts that are like "someone do something" but no concrete ideas right now sorrey

[Datisi]

lols we're doing well i think, besides not like he's that good scum player either (love you ico)

Also damn straight for the "universal" townread? meant as a "reaction test" or?

[Datisi]

I will admit that made me laugh, but i have not a slightest idea of how anyone would react to that, so. Like, are they gonna call you opportunistic when holden obviously was never getting lynched? Town for trying something? Scum for pretending to try something? Idk. It'd maybe be funny tho. If you wanna spice it up, feel free. Tho you're on your own as I'm about to pass out for real so

[Datisi]

ehy the FUCK is ico not playing this

I yelled at him on discord earlier today

If i wake up tomorrow and i don't see two pages of dragon spam there will be hell to pay

also uhh things are happening i guess

[Datisi]

I mean you can still clap back you know

Also idk how much i am around today but ye

[Datisi]

lol @ koba thinking their arguments are good enough to """freeze""" lmao

[Datisi]

i dunno about killing koba, so far not many people are listening to them, and i have a gut feeling they're a bomb and trying to eat a scumkill while not attracting vigilantes

also i kinda kinda hope they eat a vig anyway but they're not exactly scumread that much and in conclusion i don't know

[Datisi]

uuugh i saw this and forgot about this

i was planning on taking a break from this game for a bit and let ico take the wheel but yay timezones

now i have recently in a game seen a townie do something like this "post-by-post analysis" and i heavily scumread them for it to the point of half losing the game because of that
it's kinda wired in me that it's "information istead of analysis" which is a scumtell
realistically it's more of a playstyle clash but

in my opinion you're better off commenting on just the things that are relevant to the reads you're presenting than forcing comments on ~half the game's posts

idk how you usually play as town tho so hard to say

[Datisi]

like also the thing is i saw the big block of text and had no clue what you're trying to tell me, so formatting is kinda bad (which isn't scummy in itself but people generally have a harder time reading big blocks of text so they're more likely to skim/ignore it)

also make sure to link the posts with the post tags, but for the love of god don't post it here with he post tags added and *then* copy the code into the main thread because it'll link to this thread

[Datisi]

don't worry bout it my dude

also sorry if i'm acting cranky

[Datisi]

i'm fairly certain i know which game you're referring to but i obviously cannot comment further than that.

[Datisi]

what do you plan to make of your koba read?

[Datisi]

i'm thinking
ico said we should not push koba and tbh i'm willing to sheep him on that front for the time being

i'm sorry i'm having a hard time getting into this game rn, do you think your koba read here will be able to be explained even through your last push of them? like do you think your trajectory/progression is Good there to post that

i think? it's fine? like i wanna say "consensus reads" but this whole game is nothing but some sorta weird weak consensus

i don't get the line about "wish holden pushed me more"?

[Datisi]

i'm just a bit confused because you have them as your strongest townread but what you wrote of him there sounds kinda negative? or i guess just weird to read "i wish they pushed me more"

who were you planning to vote, ceejay?

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part of me wants to say "put them lower on your town list" because i just think it'd be funny if my slot was your strongest townread here
which tbf strategically probably wouldn't even be bad right now? like seems more like pocketing a UTR than townreading a buddy

i think i'd want you to remove it but the thing is i can't tell if that is "scummy weird" or "just weird but i know you're scum so it's scummy weird"
and i'm tired af at this point and i can't think
so uhh if you think you can Back Up your readslist well then your call?

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Hmm hoctac is the only person that scumreads our slot and i was really hoping they get lynched so i don't actually have to think about which one of us gets healed

But you said you townread him so yay can't push there

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Fingers crossed

Also this is the part where i sleep until past deadline like the useless mf i am and leave it to you and ico
I'll effort again on day 2 probably

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Are you fucking kidding me PP replaced in

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Bingle townlocked him for some BS reason and the rest of us townies ripped each other apart

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Seems like it, yeah.

Kinda hate how I'm doing ~nothing~, but my plan was to return to the game Day 2, so whatever.

[Datisi]

they're trying to kill each other, that's fun.

i feel like it's really bad if we continue lurking here but i really really don't feel like actually playing right now... lmao i always feel like an asshole when that happens while i'm scum

maybe i'll start posting later maybe not

[Datisi]

lol you just pasted as i say that

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welp i posted and i haven't read shit in the past few days

time to

i m p r o v i s e

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ceejay is still in the running i think... and that's all fair and good, but that's only part 1.

lmao i hope my cluelessness sounds genuine because i really did not thoroughly read the last who knows how many pages

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if town gets another extention i stg

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i know its probably stupid but I wanna tr 3 roses for pointing out hte logical flaw in my spec

because I honestly didn't think of what they said but im also disappointed because I thought i had figured out something cool strategywise.

this is pretty much exactly how town lost the last round of brass and sharpnel. heh.

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i don't think i would mind a Koba lynch too much? they remind me of those players that i can never tell exactly what they're thinking, and that unnerves me a bit.

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i'm deadass thinking about sheeping you and kilga as my townreads onto enomis and what happens happens kekw but idk aaaaaaa

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becasue i'm tired and i want to go to bed

i agree enomis is maybe better for later (especially if ceejay is alive too) but like i just wanna be Not Here but i kinda feel like i have to do Something to earn the priviledge of being able to Leave but i just don't care about their dumbass deadline lynch but i can't say that you feel

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hmm maybe i was wrong and koba is a supersaint

like his "i want PP to hammer me" is giving me pause

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fuck me i'm bad

their*

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[GeorgeBailey]

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I also serious don't get Kilga's push on Hoctac.

i already forgot what it was tbh

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[GeorgeBailey]

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Oh look, it's blowing up into a shitfight.

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good morning sunshine

I need to reread game

I will do that later

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i lowkey want to kill PP for really really dumbass reasons (he Fuccing Scares me and as a newbie mod this just feels Awkward) even tho i know we shouldn't (even tho his reads outside koba might be not bad which is also a problem)

also thinking back i think i heavily misplayed EoD1 since if we flip now my apathy may be seen as "the second scum wasn't in danger" which is bad but oops

kilga is a decent "universally townread" shot

tho i'm not sure which one of us should be doing the kill, since hoctac is alive and scum paranoia is a thing

i need to reread hmmm

[Datisi]

ok this is what my scumbuddy did in my first scumgame so let's do Process of Elimination

HoldenGolden
Tuxedo Mask
PenguinPower
enomis
ceejayvinoya
Kilgamayan
Hoctac
DkKoba
Night 3 Roses

scum - {N3R, Tux Tux}
ded - {enomis}
ico's no no - {koba, PP}

leftovers - {hoctac, ceejay, holden, kilga}

i think hoctac and ceejay are somewhat likely to eat a vig
holden and kilga are unlikely to eat a vig imo

i think we either yolo lolkill in hoctac/ceejay and risk doublekilling with a vig
or we kill the UTRs in kilga and holden
ye i think one of kilga/holden
i'll reread tho
sometime
soon(tm)

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i'm lazy and i just lost another town game why is mafia so difficult

anyway what're your thoughts on our shot tux?

also i still deadass think koba is ss/bomb

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this post is probably me talking about mechanics because i'm too fucking lazy to reread the game right now and also i want ico to come in here and tell me what to do

setup (a) - 25% chance of 3 Vigs (50% Blank Vig) and 4 town roles (50/50% Bomb or Supersaint)
setup (b) - 50% chance of 4 Vigs (50% Blank Vig) and 3 town roles (50/50% Bomb or Supersaint)
setup (c) - 25% chance of 5 Vigs (50% Blank Vig) and 2 town roles (50/50% Bomb or Supersaint)

so one town vig has flipped, assuming tomorrow is massclaim time

there's 6 town alive currently
(a) 25% - 2vig 4bss
(b) 50% - 3vig 3bss
(c) 25% - 4vig 2bss

hmm this is pretty difficult without seeing what has flipped at daybreak - without the flipped vigi a "safer" claim is vigilante but considering one town vig has flipped then claiming vig or non-vig is kinda symmetric right now

problem being of course we have no bloody clue in which setup we are, so at the "current" state our probably best bet is claiming 1vig 1 nonvig
but the state changes in the morning yay

ok i'm gonna write out a "cheatsheet" hopefully it's gonna be understandable - there's three possible scenarios:
note: once someone flips (like enomis flipped vig), add them to the "claimed" - like currently we have 1 "claimed" vig (because ye they're ded)

scenario 1

(total claims 5vig 4nonvig)
> we nail the fakeclaims completely. that meaning, if we're in (a), we both claim vig, in (b) we claim 1vig 1nonvig, in (c) we both claim nonvig (so that the total amount of claims is always 5vig 4nonvig). town wouldn't be able to conclude jack shit (there's gonna be a certain percentage of us more likely being in this or that setup but not good enough for town to actually be able to confidently draw conclusions)

scenario 2

(total claims either 6vig 3nonvig or 4vig 5nonvig)
> we're ~average~. in (a) we claim 1vig 1nonvig, in (b) we claim the same group (either both vig or both nonvig), in (c) we claim 1vig 1nonvig - then one group has 1-2 scum in it, and the other has 0-1 scum in it. this is not too bad, the only problem is IF we're in (a) or (c) and we're split 1-1, then if the one scum that's in the "smaller" group flips, it would conftown whoever else is in the same claimed group. now not likely, since then it's optimal for town to lynch in the bigger claimed group, but it's something to keep in mind.

scenario 3

(total claims either 7vig 2nonvig or 3vig 6nonvig)
> we fuck up. in (a) we both claim nonvig, in (c) we both claim vig. (note that it's not possible to completely fuck up if we're in (b)). it would instantly conftown everyone in the smaller group.

of course this is all assuming we both live through the night, if there's only one scum alive then they fuck up by claming nonvig in (a) or vig in (c). (meaning they should aim to claim vig in (a) and nonvig in (c) (either in (b)) but obviously that's a bit harder to do when we don't know the setup)

hmmm claim table?

	both claim vig	claim 1vig / 1nonvig	both claim nonvig
setup (a)	nailed the fakeclaims (1)	average (2)	fuck up (3)
setup (b)	average (2)	nailed the fakeclaims (1)	average (2)
setup (c)	fuck up (3)	average (2)	nailed the fakeclaims (1)

by this the "optimal" strategy would be to claim 1vig/1nonvig, however, if we can get one of our slots to go last in masclaim that would be ideal lmao - tho i doubt it

[Datisi]

yeah, unless we're going last and we can deduce the whole setuo, vig/nonvig is probably optimal. for now. if i'm not missing anything. i don't think i am but i am p tired right now so.

i remember a few day ago thinking of "the scum more likely to endgame (the one in the better position) should claim nonvig", for reasons i'm not too sure myself... i think something to do with bombs being maybe less likely to get lynched? i don't really remember what i was going for right now... i'll sleep on it again.

arguably it's more important that our claims are believeable though. since we're shooting in holden/kilga, i don't think it makes sense for either of us to claim that as our "vig kill". however, i don't think anyone is scumreading those slots, which means nobody will shoot them, which means nobody will claim those shots (so they'll be obvious scumshots). and let's say there is one more kill (say idk ceejay), and only one vig claims to have shot ceejay... then we're in trouble because that vig is now confirmed town full vigilante. i think it would be advantageous to *also* claim a vig shot on ceejay then, since then whoever is the real vig isn't actually confirmed town

so i'm not married to the idea which one of us should claim vig or not, like depending on who's dead it might be a good idea for the one who'll be claiming vig to claim that kill - then we could however run into the opposite problem, if too many people claim the shot on the same person, town could conclude someone there is likely scum, but the question is will they...

havng typed this out, it's not 100% given the sole vig claim with an additional death is confirmed town if our kill is a vigilante, since the dead vigilante also could've shot the other kill

that's the joy of this setup holy hell

oh, additional thing, if we're forced to claim between bomb and supersaint, i think we always claim bomb. a problem with claiing supersain if we're the only one claim left is the supersaint claim is the last scum alive, at one point the optimal startegy is to have the "superaint" self-vote and force someone ele to hammer them, which would obviously be Not Good

[Datisi]

blank vs full is randomized on handout, yeah. it would make sense, since in that scenario you wouldn't "know" if they're alive becaue you're blank or because they're scum that got healed. who do you think you'd try to vig here as a town vigilante?

i'm just worried if there's a death that's obviously a vig shot and only one vigilante claims it, then they're confirmed town which is kinda problematic you feel

also my "s" key wasn't working so i ripped it out and i wasn't able to put it back until i realised i was trying to put it upside down oops

[Datisi]

"ico i didn't read shit you're in charge of our shot my dude".

uhhh i know i'm supposed to be efforting here and stuff but it's been a long day that i've woken up to surprisingly early so i will go pass out soon and reread game tomorrow and hopefully get some insight from our favorite dragon by that time (read: i will probably deadass sheep him on whatever he decides because nightkill decisions have always been a weak point of my scumgame (implying there's a strong point haha good one dats))

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ok ico we got a bit time, i'll try to reread in the meantime

PP back on the list?

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can confirm this conversation did just happen

writing it out (so i can laugh at myself if it turns out to be the case) the only person i can really see vigging us is hoctac, while you were slightly scummier throughout day 1 and we gotta make a call so

i will reread the game at some point before sod2 i swear

pedit: if that happens then town deserves to win so kekw

[Datisi]

No daystart yet?

And afaik, ico wants to push hoctac, told me to leave that to him
I might do a "catchup" or something in the meantime, we'll see

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BOIIIIIIIII

MY DUDEEEEEEEE

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Fuck i need to do math brb

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enomis - vig
koba - vig
ceejay - vig
holden - bomb

setup (a) - 25% chance of 3 Vigs (50% Blank Vig) and 4 town roles (50/50% Bomb or Supersaint)
setup (b) - 50% chance of 4 Vigs (50% Blank Vig) and 3 town roles (50/50% Bomb or Supersaint)
setup (c) - 25% chance of 5 Vigs (50% Blank Vig) and 2 town roles (50/50% Bomb or Supersaint)

3 town alive
(a) - 3 nonvig
(b) - 1 vig 2nonvig
(c) - 2 vig 1 nonvig

ok first of all holden is an obvious scum kill DO NOT CLAIM THAT

depending on who did koba/ceejay shoot there could be conftowns today
maybe not yeah not okay
uhhhhh
holy hell

now what

if there is a bomb in town we need to lynch them lmao

also i see kilga is voting for you fuck

[Datisi]

nahh, we're not pushing anything until ico's over
also i'd prefer to not bus because this isn't basic lylo

if there's another bomb then we *have* to get them lynched otherwise we draw at best

if there's one vig and 2 supersaints we can win even if we hammer one ss my blocking the vig and killing him the next night

[Datisi]

you can post if you want, there probably won't be that much action that soon anyway

i'm gonna hold off from posting for now, if i do it's gonna be a prodge since i never reread during the night as town anyway

[Datisi]

hmmm hoctac either shot us and is blank or he's a non-vig

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this is still gonna be pretty hairy i think

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actually claiming to have shot holden would be a meme since you'd be claiming blank vig

not saying you should do that just saying it would be funney

[Datisi]

considering there's 3 flipped vigilantes we can actually claim any combination other than vig+vig without conftowning anyone

we either claim vig+nonvig or nonvig+nonvig

i'm not sure if any if more advantageous tbh

pedit: we were tring each other last phase, that would have to be convincing with trajectories and whatnot
and i'm not sure if we can turn as easily as you think, town often expects bussing

deadass thinking to claim nonvig too for the memes

[Datisi]

I mean last round both scum claimed vig so lol

Our plan is i think always to try to mislynch some of the nonvig claims

[Datisi]

We could, yeah. I'm just talking from a mech standpoint. If there's a bomb, even if we achieve parity, it's still a draw.

[Datisi]

I think our odds are still pretty decent even if we quickhammer a supersaint today... Block a vig, shoot elsewhere and pray no bombs lmao

Alternatively hope vig shoots a bomb but that might be unlikely idk hard to tell for now

[Datisi]

tl;dr mech post for ico:

we cannot claim vig+vig.

we can claim anything else and town won't have any clears.
since tuxedo will be claiming nonvig, our slot can claim either vig or nonvig

actually i just noticed the table in 380 still applies lemme work this out real quick

so if tux is claiming nonvig right:

in (a) we can claim either freely without doing The Split
in (b) if we claim nonvig we do The Split (i.e. we confirm at least one of the nonvig claims is scum, but i don't think that matters actually since 4 out of 5 alive people are in that pool, yeah)
in (c) if we claim vig we do The Split (i.e. we confirm that at least one of nonvig claims is town, that conftowns the nonvig if tux flips, actually that is bad)

ok logically we should be also claiming nonvig

ico if you have to claim

not vig

ok thank you

[Datisi]

the only problem is if town realizes that it is mechanically optimal for scum to both claim nonvig here but i don't have that much faith in the mech knowledge of the town tbh?

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and even if they did realize that, the "ok but why are you sure scum would be able to work that out" is enough to fill them with paranoia. hopefully.

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the hell is PP getting at i wonder

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i thought he was a bomb confident he won't get shot or something but it seems like he just miscounted the number of people alive lmao

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Yes that is mechanically optimal we both claim nomvig I'm pretty sure

The reasons why it would be a fuckup in setup (a) and a slight fuckup in setup (b) are no longer valid

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Oh fuck hoctac is the vig are you shitting me i was right on that...

This is a big ass fuckin problem now because
Uhhh lemme think
If there's a bomb in town we need to lynch them or outright fuckin lose/draw
If 2 bombs we lost/draw already
If 2 ss then we're fine as long as someone that's not us is lynched lmao
Yeah this is fucken great lol

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my dudes i just googled alte, the character kilga said he wanted to rp as

https://100orangejuice.gamepedia.com/Alte