Micro 941 | Brass and Shrapnel | Mafia PT

[Tuxedo Mask]

Hello Roses, I'm looking forward to playing with you. Fair warning I have minimal Mafia alignment experience, so I may rely on guidance here.

[Tuxedo Mask]

I have only have brief familiarity with HG, Clidd, Enomis, and DKKoba.

[Tuxedo Mask]

GMT -4 So it's nearly 6 PM. That all sounds good, I leave most of that role stuff to you. Just think I'm a bit ignorant of that stuff at the moment, but I'll do more reading.

[Tuxedo Mask]

I did read this set up before signing up. Sorry, I implied otherwise, I mean this is the most complicated setup I've played in my forum mafia career. That's what I mean by some of this going over my head for now, but I will be reading mafia strategy and stuff on PR theory.

Also, I've only played once with HG and Enomis. The rest I know a bit just by reading.

[Tuxedo Mask]

That all sounds good. I love talking in-game or about the game, so I look forward to discussing things here. My only worry is that planning to heavy here will make me look inorganic in the thread. But that's probably just a newbie assumption.

Also just read a game of this set up being played, it looks like chaos. But us having the advantage of a doctor seems pretty good. Do you think there is ever a reason we would use the role block over the doctor?

[Tuxedo Mask]

The only one in the wiki. https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?t=21530 I'm not sure it's the best example, seemed a bit chaotic for reasons outside the set-up.

Looking forward to working things out. I'm just going to hit up Holden at the start. The route of just blaming them for Newbie 1996 seems the most organic.

[Tuxedo Mask]

I'll read that as soon as I can.

[Tuxedo Mask]

Don't worry, I got it. Also, I make errors like that too often, but I'm just barely literate not tired.

Phew, glad I can put that game away. I'm a bit busy at the moment.

Also is your profile picture from anything? It's cute.

[Tuxedo Mask]

Oh boy, now I might read it.

Also Your Turn To Die looks awesome. How'd you find it? I'm going to check this out once I finish playing Lisa: The Painful.

If you correctly guess my character's name you win a prize.

Also hope that Iconeum doesn't mind we're already 24 posts into this and the game hasn't started. Oof just remembered this goes public post-game.

[Tuxedo Mask]

Kilgamayan and DKKoba right into the theory talk. Maybe we could trap them with that day 2? Is there some way to encourage them to stay focused on that sort of talk? I could ask lots of questions maybe?

[Tuxedo Mask]

which is good and well for us, but we need to be careful not to fall into the trap of talking only about the setup and not scumhunting, that's gonna get us in trouble eventually.

I meant this trap. If I get them focused on discussing the setup a lot. Maybe day 2 you can say they aren't scum hunting and only trying to look busy by talking about the set up a lot.

[Tuxedo Mask]

Yeah, I get that. I'm overthinking like five posts and the plan was a stretch. Thanks for being a realist.

As for what Icon (is that okay?) said, if you two do get scum read earlier how'd you like me to handle it? Also keep the gifs coming.

[Tuxedo Mask]

I don't know if I should ask before interacting with you like that? But it was a question I legitimately had for you and thought it'd be better ask there than here. I won't push theory stuff much further, but there doesn't seem to be much else to do at the moment.

[Tuxedo Mask]

Gotta work with what you got.

[Tuxedo Mask]

I love clidd, I replaced them into their slot for Newbie 1996 specifically because I loved their style.

[Tuxedo Mask]

them into their slot? I'm dumb. I replaced into their slot.

[Tuxedo Mask]

I'm caught, I'm sorry. Time to bus.

[Tuxedo Mask]

Obviously he's gotta die. But seriously, nice job. Future Holden, congrats.

[Tuxedo Mask]

Obviously he's gotta die.

[Tuxedo Mask]

How tragic.

[Tuxedo Mask]

Seriously though, I wanna defend Kilga from DKkoba, saying that their stance seemed a reasonable evolution of the discussion. Would that be okay?

[Tuxedo Mask]

It's cool, I think Holden stole my chance anyway.

[Tuxedo Mask]

I try to be precise with my words, to be clear and understood. I think I'm just uptight and might loosen up with experience. But you might wanna check my previous two town games Newbie 1996 and Newbie 2001, and let me know if I sound off.

[Tuxedo Mask]

I'm also pretentious.

[Tuxedo Mask]

Oh, I apologize. I won't mention it anymore.

[Tuxedo Mask]

That looks awesome, I love it. But seriously, I don't know what he's getting at. I totally thought it was a more serious vote.

[Tuxedo Mask]

Can I put quotes from completed games in here?

[Tuxedo Mask]

Thanks for the correction, I too easily get swayed by people's avatars when gendering them and miss posted pronouns. I need to be better at that.

Anyways, I stumbled across this funny thing.

I reserve the right to roll scum with Datisi in the next game

[Tuxedo Mask]

VOTE: George Bailey

[Tuxedo Mask]

Woah that was a burst of activity. Two thoughts, one I think I'm going to publically bow out of PR talk and just go with the consensus. And I'm going to vote Ceejay. I dislike their vote of Holden. Also at this point, I think I'm just fully in on making Tux/Holden a thing.

If you think either is a bad move let me know.

[Tuxedo Mask]

Do you know what Holden is hinting at with #103?

[Tuxedo Mask]

Well this Dokkoba/Holden is turning out well.

[Tuxedo Mask]

Yeah sounds good, you're rebuff of the two vote on yo looked good. I might do a read list next.
Holden = Town for how they handled Dkkoba
Dkkoba = town, just cause I can't see scum doing that
Clidd = null no posts (I'll ask if it's a meta thing)
Enomis = slight scum for vanishing
CJ = for going from Holden Wagon to yours both for weak reasons.
Not sure about the other one voting (I don't want us to have th exact same thoughts.)
And not sure what to say about your slot.

[Tuxedo Mask]

I think I would have scum read your initial reaction then liked your follow up explanation. So I think I'd have a slight town read in both you and the person pushing you, but dislike CJ for taking advantage of it.

[Tuxedo Mask]

You're right, might be forced. I'll just question Ceejay. But writing that list down helped solidify my 'reads' so I can work from there.

[Tuxedo Mask]

Yeah, my only completed town is a replacement. So don't have a 'town early game' yet. I have that in case someone asks though, and I'll post it at some point. Like if things slow down. How are you doing? It was good you commented on my post, we do need to interact. But something substantial an constant. I think a read we both disagree on would help.

[Tuxedo Mask]

Fair, that sounds like a good place for friction. I think that little miscommunication of the hoctac vote looks good.

I can explain my thoughts on Kobba more if you'd like? Or would that preplan the argument too much?

[Tuxedo Mask]

[GeorgeBailey]

[Tuxedo Mask]

That Bravado is a good point. Would you be scum reading them for it, or just disagreeing with a town read?

[Tuxedo Mask]

Is it okay to press you on what you just said? I'm going to ask what you were going to say before they answered.

[Tuxedo Mask]

Okay, I think we're on a good track. I don't have specific plans at the moment, not sure where many players stand, unfortunately. I might press, but not demand you answer.

[Tuxedo Mask]

Actually I'm fine, your statement is reserved enough that I get the hint. If other people question it I'll defend it.

[Tuxedo Mask]

Well, we'll see how things pick up. I think a CJ wagon is likely to catch steam.

Question for this setup, would 'rushing' a vote in lylo be good for either alignment? Because either side hammering a super saint there would result in them not winning.

[Tuxedo Mask]

About Lylo stuff, I'd appreciate it, but I hope that's not necessary.

About CJ whether it goes anywhere I think it'll help take the heat off you.

[Tuxedo Mask]

Insomnia is rough and Clidd is a Gem.

[Tuxedo Mask]

Kirari just admitted Yoooh was town.

This post cracks me up every time I think about it. For context, Kirari and Clidd were having a pretty serious game solvey back and forth when Scum!3Bounty jumped in the middle of it.

[Tuxedo Mask]

That might be a bit on the nose, but I feel the same with Tuxedo Mask gifs. Any time I use one I'm trying to emulate Clidd, fortunately not nearly close to the amount of Sherlock gifs.

P-edit: Hope you feel better. Also, feel bad I'm never addressing Ico because of that stuff. Hey Ico, how are you? Thoughts on the game?

Sidenote, I keep hearing people hitting their limit, I think it's because of quarantine.

[Tuxedo Mask]

it's not really quarantine, i'm just having trouble with my uni. probably gonna go to a different one, but keeps me up at night sometimes.

School troubles, understandable. I wasn't lying when I said I did a clowning semester, so believe me, I know the feeling.

[Tuxedo Mask]

Do you think Koba saying he'd hate to be vigged is a soft bomb claim?

[Tuxedo Mask]

Yeah, jumped a little when I saw it too.

[Tuxedo Mask]

Woo you did it. Also in a bad way, was like 'are we that obvious?' Then realized I was over thinking it.

[Tuxedo Mask]

Well his last one got town me lynched in Lylo.

[Tuxedo Mask]

It was quite an impressive breakdown and analysis, just wrong. He's a very strong player.

Also the scum player was a universal town read so they would have always been an unlikely lynch anyway.

[Tuxedo Mask]

Congratulations. I need to do a reread to reengage somewhat. Feel like I'm just coasting and not scum hunting.

[Tuxedo Mask]

I think now might be a good time to argue over Koba. If you still think that's a good idea. Once they answer me I'll give the read of their slot. Including what we discussed before.

[Tuxedo Mask]

Absolutely not annoying at all. It's a game if you're not having fun then take a break. Do hope you feel better. It's also been fun playing and discussing with you, so don't worry about me.

I'll just do my own thing for a bit then, if you have suggestions feel free to leave them here.

[Tuxedo Mask]

Yep yep. Sounds good.

[Tuxedo Mask]

Few, I was getting sweaty for a second. Thank god CJ came back, it sucks that the two people I decided to engage with one went MIA and the other just doesn't want to talk to me.

I am having the issue of town reading too many people though. At the moment if asked I'll just lean into, and be honest. "I'm having trouble engaging the game as most people appear town to me at the moment." But if either of you has tips on something to pursue, or a general scum gameplay tip let me know.

[Tuxedo Mask]

I think you guys need to chillax a bit, it's probably in your nature to be anxious and paranoid

Can confirm.

[Tuxedo Mask]

Don't know I missed the gif, bungled my joke.

[Tuxedo Mask]

[GeorgeBailey]

[Tuxedo Mask]

[GeorgeBailey]

[Tuxedo Mask]

[GeorgeBailey]

[Tuxedo Mask]

[GeorgeBailey]

[Tuxedo Mask]

[GeorgeBailey]

[Tuxedo Mask]

[GeorgeBailey]

[Tuxedo Mask]

He has not, I've only gotten reads from like 1 or 2 players, makes me nervous.

[Tuxedo Mask]

Yeah, just being in the grey zone of such a slow game feels weird. Every time I log in and see there has suddenly been a whole new page, I think that the shoe has dropped, and I'll suddenly be at L-1.

[Tuxedo Mask]

Hell, live and learn, I'm bored of waiting for CJ. Going to do that vote on Dokkoba. I'll post here first, just to give you guys the final veto if you'd like.

[Tuxedo Mask]

Well, here it is anyway.

[Tuxedo Mask]

no

Do you feel their reads or scum hunting has been flawed? If so what posts?

Yes, I understand you disagree with their meta based style, however do you believe they have reached incorrect conclusions using it?

i wouldt know yet! but i refuse to read previous games that are not the same setup.

This post really doesn't sit right with me. It feels super disingenuous and misrepresentative. If you refuse to read previous games then don't, I have no clue how that applies to Clidd doing it.

Making this strange accusation, and then not being able to back it up is also weird. If you can't point to one read you disagree with, why would you have a problem with their methods of getting acclimated to the game. Clidd hasn't even pushed anything yet. And yes, I know you can't know for sure if Clidd is right or wrong, but if I saw someone using logic I disagree with to reach a conclusion I disagree with I'd be able to point that out. Your attack of their playstyle feels more like paranoia than anything.

Vote goes here.

[Tuxedo Mask]

We'll see what happens, live and learn, gotta make a play.

[Tuxedo Mask]

I just have to come out of this looking better than someone who's drunk and angry. How hard could this be?

Sorry ahead of time if I get myself lynched.

[Tuxedo Mask]

Something that I'm trying to do based on some off-site stuff I've played, is that there are always one or two players that are "hard to interact with" and I noticed scum tend to just set them aside for a NK. So as town I try and engage them, because what makes them difficult is often what makes them useful, and as scum I'm trying to engage DKkoba, because it looks town. But that's from my limited experience and we'll see what happens, I also don't think it would be too hard to slink back onto CJ. But obviously make it look like I'm not doing that.

[Tuxedo Mask]

Hmm, any tips on the rebuttal. I guess I could ask for proof. But they're probably just doing their schtick they haven't even voted me, should I point that out?

[Tuxedo Mask]

i answerd ur dumb questions nerd nerd and ur pivot is not logically consistent. ur tone towards me suggested u thought i was town. so ur sudden pivot is not genuine.

Let's keep it civil.

I know you answered my dumb questions, that's why I voted you. I disliked the answer. You still don't have anything to point to that shows Clidd's methods are wrong. What posts do you believe make me voting you now disingenuous?

[Tuxedo Mask]

This is what I'm thinking. I should stop overthinking and bothering you, sorry.

[Tuxedo Mask]

Naw, getting townread is pulling your weight. You're both doing a good job being engaged and making things happen. As you said this game is just a bit slow. Me getting antsy and picking a fight out of boredom is probably more against my alignment than anything.

I think the one that that may be town is where I say "I think I know what you mean and I think I agree." But I ended being wrong about they meant, so any town read from that would be revoked. Cause I was about to call them town there.

[Tuxedo Mask]

Yeah it's a reaction test
IT MAKES ME TOWN READ THEM THOUGH! UGH, WHY IS MY HEAD LIKE!

Why am I like fake OMGUS, that's town as fuck! I'm just biased, I have to be.

[Tuxedo Mask]

I think I know what happened. He thinks I'm reaction testing him. Because he asked for a fight, and I said I'd give him one and then gave a BS vote.

[Tuxedo Mask]

Ugh, sorry, thank you. THEY.

@GB would it be too much to ask you to edit out me misgendering Dokkoba. I know that's just busy work for you, but I'd rather make them reading this later more pleasant.

[Tuxedo Mask]

There, that's my final answer. I don't think it's a bad one. Prepared to go head to head over this tomorrow. Either by then he'll admit it was a test and scum or town read me for it, or admit he was drunk and back off. Either way, taking the high road at this moment I think is the best look I can have.

[Tuxedo Mask]

THEY'LL

[Tuxedo Mask]

God damn it, proofread. I usually refer to people are gender-neutral anyway, why can't I do it for the one person who requests it! I'm going to blame it on an ongoing game with Votato because they specifically asked to be called anything but 'They'. I know that's cheap, but I feel like an ass at this point and what a scapegoat (scapedonkey).

[Tuxedo Mask]

I think to react however comes naturally to you. You think it's best for us to town read each other, due to set up, but if that feels hard don't force yourself.

Also, have a goodnight. I can't wait for Ico to come in here like "WHAT DID YOU DO!"

[Tuxedo Mask]

Oh excellent, plenty of time to really make this unsalvageable.

[Tuxedo Mask]

DkKoba, you need to take the questioning a little more seriously. The forum is more judicious compared to Epicmafia in the sense of questions and answers. Tuxedo will have a valid point to have a scumread on you if there is negligence in collaboration.

This reads as I'm wrong, but not scummy for it. So that's kind of all I could hope for.

[Tuxedo Mask]

But Dokkoba did vote me and sees right through me. So that's bad.

[Tuxedo Mask]

Sounds good.

[Tuxedo Mask]

Koba makes it easy when they lie.

[Tuxedo Mask]

That would make sense. But I'll see how this push pans out first.

[Tuxedo Mask]

Dkkoba is they.

The way they express their opinion on the effectiveness of meta doesn't sit right with me. They complain about how they don't want to do it when they're trying to do is make another player who heavily uses meta stop. They also frame it as all Clidd does is use meta, and take no other factors into consideration, ignoring the 'context' that multiple players including Clidd have already discussed.

You take that for my original vote, and then add how they refuse to engage with me. They ignore the points I raised, and kill me disingenuous, while not demonstrating my town read of them when asked. Then they pivot to saying, I think TMI? They were drunk it's hard to tell what they meant, so I won't hold it against them that much. So I hope they elaborate today.

Either way my great point, unless it's to Clidd or to me DKkoba isn't helping us better understand or furthering discussion on their part or in the game as whole. They are shutting down discussion which is not a town trait.

[Tuxedo Mask]

That's my response to CJ

[Tuxedo Mask]

Sounds good.

[Tuxedo Mask]

Well, I've convinced zero people, but I'm not getting lynched for it. So that's something. I'll probably switch to CJ soon, that's where the momentum is headed. What's your plan?

[Tuxedo Mask]

I'll just be like, I questioned Dkkoba, finally got some answers (maybe) and everyone seems to disagree with me. So I'm probably wrong. Still, scum reading CJ though, let's get em. I could justify it with some big posts. I don't know. I don't think going back to a scum read after a failed push is that bad. I do it as town, it's about trying to come to a consensus.

[Tuxedo Mask]

ah yeah, the "everything you and your scumpartner do seems 100x scummier to you" thing, i forget sometimes. i think that's fine. sorry it's my turn on drinking lmao i'm not thinking clearly, also will be going out soon so uhhh

lmao am i supposed to be coaching here i'm useless aaaaaaa

ok

we good

You're helping a lot! Yeah, we're good. If you head out, have a nice day/night whatever it is for you.

[Tuxedo Mask]

If you, Hoctac, and Kobba form some kind of locktown block I have zero problems with that. Something tells me it isn't something Kobba would appreciate though.

[Tuxedo Mask]

My condolences. You do you, I'm sure you'll find something to have fun with. Maybe you and Holden can drunk post this whole game away.

[Tuxedo Mask]

Cool if I ask your read of Dkkoba in the thread?

[Tuxedo Mask]

I got something

[Tuxedo Mask]

I just directed it Ico, mostly. Gives you the out there if you don't feel like dealing with it. I think it also shows we're not on the same page.

[Tuxedo Mask]

Damn, Holden scum reads me. Confirmed. I probably feel off somehow. It's just a vibe though, hopefully I can shake it.

[Tuxedo Mask]

Yep, it came off good, I just really wanted to interact with you in the thread. But I'll follow up when Ico gets back.

[Tuxedo Mask]

Oh yeah, there was a hoctac thing you said you'd explain later. Can I bring that up at some point?

[Tuxedo Mask]

now i'm just confused. was that a tuxedo townread, ceejay scumread, both, or neither?

-D

But what were you going to say before Hoctac answered? When you thought the question was addressed as you.

It probably isn't worth bringing up.

[Tuxedo Mask]

I'm just going to keep banging my head on this Koba wall till I die. Sorry about potentially throwing the game.

[Tuxedo Mask]

I'm glad we're agreed on the Holden kill.

[Tuxedo Mask]

Ico decided to town read them. They made their bed, they can sleep in it.

[Tuxedo Mask]

The backdown starts now. I may die.

[Tuxedo Mask]

Yeah enjoy yourself. It's a chaos set up anyways. Hell I could get lynched, then everyone just shoots each other/bombs anyways and you still win. Though I'll try my best to not have that happen.

[Tuxedo Mask]

The doc is a good advantage. Honestly, what might be a good strategy would be for one of us (me at this point) to be scummier than the other. So it's easy to judge where the vigs will go. Like it's good to be town read, and assume no one will shoot us. But that might make deciding who does what harder. If we think one is more likely to attract shots, that makes the one using the doc power safer.

[Tuxedo Mask]

Okay, I didn't know that. Earlier you said something about using the doc to protect against vig and bomb, and I interrupted that as stoping both in one go. Sorry, that's a very bad idea then.

[Tuxedo Mask]

Should I say that?

[Tuxedo Mask]

Fair play. I already decided not to respond. Though I do feel I'm making a dang mess of things.

[Tuxedo Mask]

That is true. Honestly how would you read the interaction between Koba and me?

[Tuxedo Mask]

That's fair, I'd rather come off annoying than scum 10 outta 10 times. Especially if it discredits Koba.

[Tuxedo Mask]

Yeah you do that. Though this weird game state is pretty good of Enomis to just come out and admit it.

I'm still waiting for a serious Holden Push to come. I'm feeling it. He just has vote parked on me. I feel he can just choose to make die at any moment.

[Tuxedo Mask]

Bye, I hope you feel better.

Are you calling my avatar fat?

P.S that was very funny, but if you need anything let me know.

[Tuxedo Mask]

Feeling alright? That's good to hear, and no need to worry about drunk posting. It's not like you said anything bad.

[Tuxedo Mask]

The source is actually a much bigger image. That I just plugged into a free image resizer and did the max measurements for profile on this site. It's not elegant or good, but it was fast.

[Tuxedo Mask]

Yeah, go ahead.

[Tuxedo Mask]

Make Prince Darien pretty again.

[Tuxedo Mask]

Do I look better?

[Tuxedo Mask]

Excellent! Is the current plan to let the town exhaust themselves? Because the game state is pretty weird, and I don't think anyone knows how to proceed. Maybe I should just do something wild to jump kick discussion.

[Tuxedo Mask]

Any idea how we should handle the mass claim tomorrow?

[Tuxedo Mask]

Sounds good. I hope you enjoy yourself and feel better. Sleep well, I'm still looking forward to Ico being disappointed in us.

P-edit: I was just tinking to vote Holden and see how people react from there.

[Tuxedo Mask]

Yeah in my head I vote Holden, and everyone loses their minds, and I'm like Holden is obv town I just wanted content. Then ?????? Profit?

It's not a fleshed-out plan.

[Tuxedo Mask]

Yeah, I'll keep it to one risky chaos play while Ico is on V/la. So this vote Holden thing will be in my back pocket for a bit. Though I'm certain this plan would never occur to scum me, so I think that highlights how bad it is.

[Tuxedo Mask]

It's what I knew would happen, but whatever. His hinted reason doesn't make sense. He got town me lynched in Lylo because he made a huge post against Clidd (who I replaced) and I didn't know how to respond to.

I asked what I could do as town, but he spent most of the explanation saying what to do as scum. So I guess he's saying I'm scum because I'm using that advice here, but I'm not because I haven't even responded to accusations like the one on Clidd. I really am not enjoying getting called vaguely in drunk posts.

[Tuxedo Mask]

Nothing to clap back on, it's too incomprehensible, no point fighting drunk arguments I don't fully understand. I think it's just gut at this point.

[Tuxedo Mask]

Yeah, I mean I'm having trouble approaching the game but that's not from being FOS. Clidd, Enomis, CJ, and Hoctac are all also "Frozen." I'll do a reread tonight though, sorry for my play.

[Tuxedo Mask]

Probably CJ, I think everyone is okay with CJ dying off.
I am sorry for being so lackluster. An ongoing game has really drained my ability to engage.

[Tuxedo Mask]

We might be able to do something with that Enomis vote on Koba. But I think it would be easier to turn it into an Enomis lynch than a Koba one.

[Tuxedo Mask]

So doing a super slow reread, and I don't think it's going well. I've got three pages of IRL notes.

#7 N3R fake claims, this is relevant later. #15 Kilga washes their hands of theory talk, then in subsequent posts exclusively discusses theory. Also in #26 They create an out for scum refusing to hammer. #36 Holden's intro, he fake claims. Feels natural and fun. #42, is the RVS? I still can't tell. Was this a serious vote? What were you hoping to accomplish with it? #55 Also implies the vote was serious. #57 I joke about being scum. #58 Still sounds serious. #59-61 I think we have a fundamental difference in how we use votes. I vote things I see having scum equity, they seem to use votes as a form of engagement. I also say that I think Koba's vote was probably a joke, and get no response of confirmation. #62 Holden also claims scum. #67 Koba starts role analysis. #66 and #69 (Nice) are both pretty weak, the joke feels forced as well as the vote, he also ignores the posts Koba is putting out. #73 Koba shades Holden but keeps vote on Kilga, I guess this confirms it was a more serious vote. #85 Good explanation. #93 Feels genuine about trying to solve, putting lots of thought and effort into crafting a mathematical trap for scum, feels town motivated. #98 on the other hand pings me hard, Kilga hasn't been in the thread to respond to vote on them. What changed between 73 and 98? I also disagree with the reason for the vote, Roses fake claimed a PR first, and I fake claimed a pr and fake claimed scum before Holden. Was the push on Holden simply because they had more votes on them at that moment? #108 I like. #(ABC)123 Is a weird conclusion, it feels like a pretty shallow reaction test. #135 What about the interact reads as TVT? How was Holden talk passed, Koba? I feel they were actively trying to engage. #150 I like. #176 @N3R can you answer this now? #203 I like. #207 ??? #208 I like. #213 I like. $213 I like. #217 I like.

Clidd and Holden's discussion about Koba looks very town. It feels like a genuine and open effort to sort a confusion player.

#253 I like. #263 What about that makes Hoctac town? #269 is weird in retrospect. #299 Did this become anything?

Anyways these are my notes about halfway through the game. They're really bad, I'm sorry. I've got a crazy headache, so I'm taking a break. If you've got a way to improve this let me know.

[Tuxedo Mask]

I'll do the rest after a break.

[Tuxedo Mask]

Right, thanks. I'll cut down on this, and really go for what jumps out at me as I go.

[Tuxedo Mask]

Yeah, the formatting will be fixed. Thanks for the tip about links. I'm sorry you had to struggle the bad formatting here. But I was planning on cleaning up the look once I was set on the content. I just copied my hand written notes directly here.

[Tuxedo Mask]

You're not coming off cranky. Just an insane newbie game has really killed my mood to play Mafia, and doesn't make me excited to engage with Koba because their playstyle (not nearly as bad) is just reminiscent of that game.

[Tuxedo Mask]

#42, is the RVS? I still can't tell. Was this a serious vote? What were you hoping to accomplish with it?
#66 and #69 (Nice) are both pretty weak, the joke feels forced as well as the vote, he also ignores the posts Koba is putting out. #135 What about the interact reads as TVT? How was Holden talk passed, Koba? I feel they were actively trying to engage.#176 @N3R can you answer this now?
Clidd and Holden's discussion about Koba looks very town. It feels like a genuine and open effort to sort a confusion player.
#263 What about that makes Hoctac town?
#299 Did this become anything?
# 472 is referring to the end game of Newbie 1996, and I'd like Holden to elaborate on what he means here. From what I'm reading I disagree with his assessment, as my question was about how it's best for town me to respond to long-form accusations. Which isn't something that has come up this game.
#536 Why are you voting Koba? What has changed to make you okay semi engaging them? Were you hoping for a reaction with a naked vote?

Read list:

Town
HoldenGolden: Has a natural and easy-going way about their posts, that feel good tonally. They're also engaged, asking lots of questions and getting lots of content out there. I wish they push my slot more (and not drunk) that could at least generate content, but as such what they have said about me hasn't garnered any reaction.
Roses: Much the same, but not nearly as active. It's also a bit hard to pin them down to being a hydra, for example they don't seem to agree on a read for DKKoba. What is your read on Koba? It seems town, but your response to #364 seems to be against that.
Hoctac: It also feels natural, and their strange questions and more focus on humor seem to be playstyle indictive rather than anything else. Their recent burst of activity looks good too, though I disagree with their take on Roses.
Clidd: I'd like to see more from them, but what I have I like. They're always a very open player, and I follow the logic that they are laying out. There discussion about Koba with Holden specifically looks very town motivated from both of them.
Kilga: I've not seen anything I dislike from them, but they've been pretty passive. They get a nulltown lean. Who's your top scum read at the moment?
CJ & Enomis: I think there is a good chance of scum here, it would explain the weird purgatory game state. With scum being very passive and under the radar. However, having just completed Newbie 2001 I'm willing to wait on Enomis here. Cj on the other hand has been much active, but not saying anything.
@CJ You say you have sheep playstyle, but there have been multiple pushes from players, what about them hasn't appealed to you? Why would you go for Enomis over anyone else?

I feel like this whole game has just a conga-line of players waiting for other players to respond. Dkkoba retrospective comes next.

[Tuxedo Mask]

I'll make that pretty with links, and maybe splash some colours, but how does my reread post look?

[Tuxedo Mask]

So I started this reread to figure out where I had gone so off track with my read of Dkkoba.
After reading the game over, I have found these posts.

I think #59 - 61 shows a fundamental disagreement of how to use votes.
#73 Koba shades Holden's slot while keeping a vote Kilga.
#93 Feels like a genuine attempt to solve and win the game outright for town. I understand that effort is NAI, but effort in this way, especially after their first high effort attempt was proven faulty shows a very protown motive.
#98 Pings me, Koba hasn't even Kilga time to respond their vote on them. Instead, jumping onto Holden wagon, even though the reason applies more to Roses and me. What changed between post 73 and 98?
#303 What are the other things that pinged you about Kilga?
#315 really helps put them into perspective, though it really isn't something I agree with. I feel getting emotional and making others emotional really ruins the fun.

I think taking time away and pulling out the frustration I'm feeling for mafia as a whole, I think I have a good town read of Koba. Right below Roses. They are active and solvey, not just in pushes but in theory analysis as well. I also have a better understanding of where they coming from over the Clidd thing, though I still disagree with their initial reaction, or how they reacted to me.

[Tuxedo Mask]

This is my very honest takeaway from the reread, but it'll probably just get scoffed at.

[Tuxedo Mask]

I can remove that line, but my point was the game is weirdly stalled out and I've apparently been Holden's only scum read all day. Yet he only does something with when he "gets drunk" and gives a half-hearted explanation, that is nearly incomprehensible and mostly boils down to gut. So if actually bothered with a real push on me we might be in a better game state.

[Tuxedo Mask]

Yes, I was. Yeah, it is negative, I could cut it or put them lower on my town list, what do you think is better?

[Tuxedo Mask]

Sure thing, my goal is really to just not get lynched today.

[Tuxedo Mask]

Okay, not dying Day 1 (baring some cruel twist of fate.) Mission accomplished.

[Tuxedo Mask]

I'm sorry, I think the townier people want Hoctac dead though, so I think that's more likely.

[Tuxedo Mask]

No problem! Sleep well, I look forward to discussing how we act in the night. I also will refrain from defending Hoctac, probably just dip as well and see how the chips fall.

[Tuxedo Mask]

Okay, not dying Day 1 (baring some cruel twist of fate.) Mission accomplished.

A CRUEL TWIST OF FATE!

[Tuxedo Mask]

I'm not sure I trust Holden and Koba's unvotes on me. I feel like they don't see me getting lynched to day, and instead hope I lower my guard to shoot me. Maybe I'm just being paranoid.

[Tuxedo Mask]

Are you guys going to jump on Koba's dumb tell? I can't.

[Tuxedo Mask]

This end of day is shaking out really nice for us.

[Tuxedo Mask]

also lowkey thinking that i should just straight up ask him about that mechanical stuff that won him the scumgame last time.
you know, so us good tOwnIeS can coUnTer it

Lucky you, Koba just did.

[Tuxedo Mask]

You're not an asshole, sometimes you feel like playing and sometimes you don't. That is the benefit and curse of long for mafia.

[Tuxedo Mask]

Good luck!

[Tuxedo Mask]

Who would have guessed it would come down to a coin toss between Koba and Hoctac? Lucky us.

[Tuxedo Mask]

Unfortunately probably won't happen if Koba gets lynched.

[Tuxedo Mask]

Also, I know I should work my way onto a Koba or Hoctac wagon but I don't think I can get there organically. Sorry. I'm just hoping at this point that if I ever flip, my actions here make them both look bad.

[Tuxedo Mask]

I'm not sure that would be great. I do agree that a Hoctac lynch is best for our team at the moment. I don't think an Enomis lynch really helps, I don't know. Why would you like to sheep to it?

[Tuxedo Mask]

That would be sick. Your good, your apathy has been in the thread in a NAI way I feel. So if you were to just vamoos I don't think much would come of it.

[Tuxedo Mask]

I also serious don't get Kilga's push on Hoctac.

[Tuxedo Mask]

[GeorgeBailey]

[Tuxedo Mask]

I also serious don't get Kilga's push on Hoctac.

i already forgot what it was tbh

They keep saying it isn't about Hoctac voting Koba, but anytime someone asks that's all they site.

[Tuxedo Mask]

Hate to see it, never makes the game fun. Even if it is good for our win con.

[Tuxedo Mask]

Though the current events are pretty ironic.

[Tuxedo Mask]

I think this end of day went very VERY well for us. I have two ideas on how to capitalize depending on night results. If Penguin is killed by Koba, I think we could easily get them lynched, and if not I think we could make the argument that their interactions are scum theater.

[Tuxedo Mask]

As for who protects who and targets I am all ears. Also, I understand that Koba being so obvious that they want to shoot Penguin is probably reason enough to assume they wont/are the bomb.

[Tuxedo Mask]

Holden I think is the best target, and I'd rather protect you guys. However, Holden and Koba suddenly dropping their push on me still feels disingenuous, and makes me nervous about a shot. Though I'd still rather you shoot and I protect because you guys living is better for the team than me living.

[Tuxedo Mask]

Yeah, so basically no matter what 1 vig and 1nonvig is optimal. I think your slot is most likely to be one of the two of us to last claim. But I wouldn't aim for it. Would you like to claim vig or no vig?

[Tuxedo Mask]

is blank vig versus real vig randomized as roll handouts or randomized on shot? I assume on the handout. Would it make sense to claim a shot on a living player we find suspicious, whoever of us wants to claim vig?

[Tuxedo Mask]

I actually don't know who town me would shoot? Might be a bit gun shy with my current reads. Maybe Koba for the hammer and threat? It seems LAMIST, but would scum really gamble a Saint that hard? I'm speculating when I already know the answer.

Who would you guys shoot?

[Tuxedo Mask]

Fair enough.

[Tuxedo Mask]

Okay, I'll take the shot. I'm good with any of those targets.

[Tuxedo Mask]

Sounds good. Inb4 I get vigged, and shoot a bomb, and you get vigged too. Just ending the game immediately.

[Tuxedo Mask]

So besides night actions, do you guys have a gamean for tomorrow after catching up?

[Tuxedo Mask]

Oh boy, okay. Jeez. If it's Lylo, I think you guys should try and push my lynch and go for the win with that. Maybe.

[Tuxedo Mask]

Okay, I just don't know how I'm getting out of this. Should I post or wait on you guys?

[Tuxedo Mask]

I think I'll claim nonvig if that's okay. Also, I really think we should push each other today. I do think its our best option. Idk, maybe we could mislynch on Kilga with Penguin but that seems unlikely.

[Tuxedo Mask]

That's fair, I'm just thinking about the way things shook out yesterday. Hoctac + Kilga doesn't work...and fuck. Okay, I gotta reread and think things over. Man, this set up is stressful. I think I'll claim nonvig. I know its scummy, but it's easier and I don't know if I wanna deal with who I shot.

[Tuxedo Mask]

Okay, but it looks like Penguin is sus of Kilga. I think we could make something work there.

[Tuxedo Mask]

Right. Ugh, I'm stressed. Really didn't expect those shots. Maybe we could get Penguin to hammer? Seems hella unlikely though.

[Tuxedo Mask]

Do you think PP is vig?

[Tuxedo Mask]

I'm also dumb. What are we claiming? Is it still okay if I nonvig?

[Tuxedo Mask]

Sounds good.

[Tuxedo Mask]

Hoctac is probably the target for today.

[Tuxedo Mask]

So those claims went very well.

[Tuxedo Mask]

Blugh, I"m going to die.

[Tuxedo Mask]

I think what I can say is a few things, in my experience, 7 hours really hasn't been enough time. I don't see why I should try to pivot from one pretty similar scum read to another at the last moment, I was happy with either of those lynches not ANY lynch. Also trying to pivot could run the risk of half the wagon going back to their Hoctac votes, someone I was town reading. As well, there was barely any time between CJ joining and Koba unexpectedly hammering. I think I can make a case for myself, but I'll wait to hear your input first.

[Tuxedo Mask]

Wouldn't quick lynching Hoctac be best? Then neither of us gets shot, and one can doc the other in case they shoot a bomb. Then we win.

[Tuxedo Mask]

I think what I can say is a few things, in my experience, 7 hours really hasn't been enough time. I don't see why I should try to pivot from one pretty similar scum read to another at the last moment, I was happy with either of those lynches not ANY lynch. Also trying to pivot could run the risk of half the wagon going back to their Hoctac votes, someone I was town reading. As well, there was barely any time between CJ joining and Koba unexpectedly hammering. I think I can make a case for myself, but I'll wait to hear your input first.

Are some of these counter-arguments okay?

[Tuxedo Mask]

WHAT HAPPENED TO YOUR FACE

[Tuxedo Mask]

Oh, I'm sorry, that's very sweet.

[Tuxedo Mask]

Your avatar looked neat, I'm sorry. Just used to glitched-out character faces being evil. I think it was cool, sorry for the joke.

[Tuxedo Mask]

Also, I think we're in a good spot.

If we have it as Kilga + Hoctac or PP + me, either the two of us convince PP to mislynch one of those two he already dislikes or you get Kilga and Hoctac to lynch PP first.

[Tuxedo Mask]

Tux, what's your reads at right now? I reread your readslist from a while back, would like an update

I'm not sure at the moment, Kilga's pinging me the most. I don't like the logic of their push on me at all, it seems like a very dishonest representation of where I stood at the end of day one. Also, their now town read of Hoctac seems weird but I don't know if its scum motivated. Would scum!Kilga come into day 2, and say they reevaluated their read of Hoctac now that instead of having to convince three people, they and Roses only have to convince one? You could explain that with them potentially being Scum!Hoctac and Scum!Kilga, but I think that's really unlikely since it's a huge risk on their part to have Kiga spend all of day 1 bussing their partner.

PP and you would make the most sense as Scum!Kilga's partner, but that would mean me being wrong about my two strongest town reads. I think your interaction with Kilga could be theater, and maybe an attempt at pocketing me. PP just doesn't strike me as scum, because of their very hard push of Koba at EOD, seems very risky for scum to do especially replacing in so late into a widely town read slot. It seems much more town motivated.

As for Hoctac I liked their playstyle day 1, and their explosion of effort in the latter half of that day felt very good. None of their posts today have pinged me one way or the other though.

That's just from memory though, I've been putting off my reread, sorry. Been a lot busier than I thought I would be.

[Tuxedo Mask]

This an okay answer to you guys?

[Tuxedo Mask]

Yep, I understand not wanting to appear fake.

[Tuxedo Mask]

I think we're in a really good place to win this. I'm sorry if I somehow blow this. But I think we can take it home.

[Tuxedo Mask]

How should we approach hammering?