Mini Normal 2143 (Game over)

[Sakura Hana]

RVS brings out the worst in us.

VOTE: NorwegianboyEE

Indeed it does.
VOTE: Firebringer

[Sakura Hana]

That's such a weird way of looking at it: I am proposing we lynch him in case we have no other reads, I'd rather mislynch a Jester than deal with a headache claiming to be a Jester the entire game, especially if we have no better leads. But I am not adverse to lynching someone else if we have to, I guess.

Is this where I say I am not ACTUALLY jester? I am pretty sure that should be obvious at this point.

That was obvious from the moment this was a Normal game.

[Sakura Hana]

Pancakes don't have agendas in case you didn't know.

But they are tasty tho.

[Sakura Hana]

Pancakes don't have agendas in case you didn't know.

That's just what you think. Sooner or later that delicious pancake you left behind on your desk will turn out to have been buddying you all along, and stab you in your sleep.

Well I wont feel bad about eating them then.

[Sakura Hana]

Hey Mohab im town leaning you too what are you going to do about that huh?!

[Sakura Hana]

Quick already said he was lying

LaL... QUICK!!!

But you're quick...

[Sakura Hana]

And a non-normal roll cannot be in a normal game by definition

You are allowed one non-normal role in a Normal game. That is what I remember, but YMMV.

That was back during graylist shenanigans, which was removed.

[Sakura Hana]

-town equity on Mohab for taking advantage of a page 1 joke jester claim and egging a lynch on Quick. (They thought the claim was actually serious.)

So you wouldnt lynch a Jester claim to get it out of the way?
I havent played with any Jesters like ever, so I dont even know how to play around them, but one thing that's for sure is that a Jester existing would mean insta loss on LyLo.

[Sakura Hana]

It's also instaloss coz no one would lynch the Jester and the Jester wouldnt lynch scum.

[Sakura Hana]

If Jester win doesnt end the game, the Jester HAS to be lynched before LyLo because scum wont kill him.
If Jester win end the game, then Jester claiming Jester is stupid coz then scum kills them.

So ergo, if there's a Jester claim the correct action is to lynch them and let them win, however not skip the day.
This is why I believe that there's no scum incentive in wanting to lynch a Jester claim that Mohab believed to be true, nor is there anything wrong with the reads he got in the early game.

[Sakura Hana]

Lynching negative utility is low-hanging fruit in my opinion

Problem with that is that, Jester isnt exactly negative utility it's literally a different win condition, sure they can help town... if they want to, but their win condition encourages them to do things like acting scummy on purpose, spam posting, active lurking or who knows what else to encourage people to lynch them.

Of course a claimed Jester means a Jester willing to work with the town in exchange for being lynched so they can win, so in the end they have to be lynched too anyway and scum gets a free NK at some point.

So no, they arent town.

[Sakura Hana]

not that this shit matters, this is a normal

Normally I'd agree, but there were some people that believed Jester to be able to be included in a Normal and have done behaviour that can be analysed on that context.

[Sakura Hana]

Well now Mohab is getting LAMISTy

[Sakura Hana]

A little bit with the whole Jester thing although NPOM also gave me the same vibes so I dismissed it as something caused by the entire argument, but 106 Really hit it hard for me.

[Sakura Hana]

Granted if that was your angle you snap voting me when i town leaned you doesnt make sense, so I doubt a single LAMISTy post makes you scum.

[Sakura Hana]

Well that's one of the most awkwards claims I've ever seen.

[Sakura Hana]

IF he's scum, this would be the first time i'd see scum claim VT as the first claim of the game on super early D1 to make people follow him.

[Sakura Hana]

NPOM had only 2 votes and Mohab was already voting him, you guys are terrible at reaction testing.

[Sakura Hana]

Actually 3 votes, but still way far from a lynch.

[Sakura Hana]

Did you really have to end it that quickly? The fun was just beginning.

Your fault for making me think you quick lynched someone within 6 pages.

[Sakura Hana]

Also I doubt any scum would've fallen for that, specially if at least one of their teammates is paying attention.

[Sakura Hana]

NPOM looks like LHF to me right now.

[Sakura Hana]

NPOM looks like LHF to me right now.

What is LHF?

Low Hanging Fruit.

[Sakura Hana]

If you believe his claim why does that not qualify as LHF for you.

[Sakura Hana]

If you believe his claim why does that not qualify as LHF for you.

See above

Hmm I see, I guess that does make some sense, but I dont see him trying at all to convince anyone.

[Sakura Hana]

From my PoV, he does look scummy in a town way, that makes people just want to lynch him, but he's not even trying to accomplish any goal, and seems to believe he's found scum in Mohab and isnt convincing anyone either, plus it's weird to claim VT right then and there if he was scum, which makes him look like LHF for me. Because people want to lynch him for it.

[Sakura Hana]

Mohabs quasi hammer was scummy and his jester position was scummy.

Do you think Mohab was fake reaction testing?

[Sakura Hana]

Well I dont know his meta.

[Sakura Hana]

That's because quick keeps on discussing ongoing games

Wait what?

[Sakura Hana]

My hot take is that Sakura, despite being second highest in activity, has not scumhunted at all.

How very observant of you.

[Sakura Hana]

Oh hey, that's 2 soft shades already, any more takers?

[Sakura Hana]

Quite defensive, still not scumhunting.

I'm not gonna play how you want me to.

[Sakura Hana]

Scum hunting should be optional?

I am not getting into the whole townhunting vs scumhunting argument again.
But that's the gist of it.

[Sakura Hana]

Cool

Scumminess noted.

So I ask you, if I were scum why wouldnt I at least pretend to scumhunt?

[Sakura Hana]

Wifom much?

There's WIFOM and there's things that make no sense.
So either I'm scum imitating my town game of townhunting over scumhunting, or I'm town.
No matter how much you ask me to hunt for scum in the "normal" way, That's not how I like to play, if you think that's scummy of me then sure go ahead and lynch me, that wont change how I play because I dont have fun playing that way.

[Sakura Hana]

What I'm trying to say is that me not scumhunting is NAI.
(And even then people have told me that townhunting is still scumhunting, which i disagree with, but whatever)

[Sakura Hana]

If you know that you not scum hunting is in NAI then maybe it is scummy.

If you think that then vote me instead of skirting around the issue.

[Sakura Hana]

These don’t jive. First you imply that you would pretend to scumhunt as scum. Then you claim you’d imitate your tow game by town hunting. Why did you make these contradicting statements?

Because if I were scumhunting that'd mean i'd be scum.
Not scumhunting is NAI for me.

[Sakura Hana]

But the point is, that, it's easier to pretend to scumhunt like a "normal" person, than not scumhunt and take heat for... not scumhunting.

[Sakura Hana]

This is just straight up bad wifom.

Well if i'm scum im clearly making shit up here, so, tell me, where am i making shit up in my play this game.

[Sakura Hana]

Otherwise you're liteally throwing the buzzword "Wifom" for no reason.

[Sakura Hana]

Where you said there was only two options of your play style

What other options do you think there would be then?
I would not scumhunt over townhunt, if that's what you think.

[Sakura Hana]

It's not for no reason wifom is generally scummy

First of all, I'm not doing any WIFOM, im just self-metaing to help you read me if you're town.
Second of all, There's WIFOM done by town to WIFOM scum.

[Sakura Hana]

If people generalize and group things as things only town do and things only scum do, there's bound to be many mislynches in games.
Town never plays how town "should " play and Scum doesnt always do scummy things, playstyle is a big thing, and that's how I play, I identify town first to corner scum.

I do not have any will to cooperate with anyone that cant understand something as basic as that.

[Sakura Hana]

How about townhunting and scumhunting at the same time?

Sure i do that sometimes, when something scummy pops up at me.

[Sakura Hana]

I currently dont have any confidence on anyone to flip scum so I continue to townhunt.

[Sakura Hana]

I've gotten townreads on you and Mohab, i'd say that's far from fencesitting.

[Sakura Hana]

Who are the three scummiest players, regardless of if you think they are scum or not.

If i ignore who im townreading i'd say you, as I explained before you look scummy in a towny way and that's why I think you're Low Hanging Fruit, outside of that I'm not sure I have a read on Quick despite how much he has posted, but gun to the head i'd say town, and no one else that's posted leans one way or the other. Porkens for example could very easily be jumping onto an easy ML just coz i refuse to scumhunt like normal people do, but I can also see why he'd be annoyed by that as town, which makes it annoying to read.

No one else has made enough of an impression for me to have a read.

[Sakura Hana]

Town should not be afraid to make enemies and it sounds like you're afraid to make enemies.

That is not wrong, but that's more part of my personality than anything.

[Sakura Hana]

And as a bonus, everything i've said about my meta and my personality is something you can research yourself, this isnt the first time I've been pushed for "not scumhunting" and i bet it wont be the last.

[Sakura Hana]

Ooh! Spicy

[Sakura Hana]

i probably should have subbed out when porkens joined.
I really don't want to play with him.

w/e i can lynch him i guess. This is not reads based but i think i will continue voting this as long as i am here.

VOTE: Porkens

I mean it was a pretty jerkish post if you dont like playing with him, but he quoted your in and then in'd himself after i invited you to play here.

[Sakura Hana]

eh you can remove the "but" from that post, that makes it seem like it was a good thing.

[Sakura Hana]

Sakura not gonna take a guess who i am townreading?

Wild guess based on our last game together it's probably me.

[Sakura Hana]

Although I guess it's probably coz i'd be dissapointed if you of all people werent townreading me yet.

P-edit:

[Sakura Hana]

i can pretend to townread u if it makes u feel better

Sure, i suppose.

[Sakura Hana]

Norwe I feel like he's playing differently from 2138, but also he's done basically nothing so I'm conflicted.

[Sakura Hana]

You know im just gonna OMGUS this.
VOTE: Porken
Seems more fun that anything that's happening right now and if Porkens being gone will make FB actually play the game then all the better.

[Sakura Hana]

You know im just gonna OMGUS this.
VOTE: Porken
Seems more fun that anything that's happening right now and if Porkens being gone will make FB actually play the game then all the better.

I’m not voting for you and haven’t called you scummy, so I’m not sure if what you are omgusing

You were shading me for not scumhunting, am i wrong in that assumption?

[Sakura Hana]

You also said this based off a reply norwegian did to a post Quick made towards me:

Deflection. (Partner?)

Partner here seems to imply you think im scum and norwegian is my partner.
Am i wrong in that assumption?

[Sakura Hana]

It's not for no reason wifom is generally scummy

First of all, I'm not doing any WIFOM, im just self-metaing to help you read me if you're town.
Second of all, There's WIFOM done by town to WIFOM scum.

Now you are just trolling

Then you also call this post of mine. Why would you make such a claim if you didnt have some suspicion on me at least.
Am i wrong in making that assumption?

[Sakura Hana]

"call this post of mine trolling"

[Sakura Hana]

So with all that, you certainly havent voted me, and you also havent called me scummy, but the sum of your posts makes me think the contrary and what you just said doesnt match your previous actions.

[Sakura Hana]

the trolling post was in reference to your hilarious Wifom wifom.

Oh.
I guess in hindsight that is indeed pretty funny

[Sakura Hana]

Im pretty sure I already mentioned my only 2 townreads, with a maybe 3rd that im not sure of.

[Sakura Hana]

That looks more like a cold take to me.

[Sakura Hana]

Don’t have strong reads yet, but gut says Mohab for posturing all the time. Sakura Hana’s "low hanging fruit" shit also came out of nowhere. And i could see it as scum trying to look good by TR a popular scumread at the time.

And i could see it as scum trying to look good by TR a popular scumread at the time.

TR a popular scumread at the time.

HA! See Quick!, he IS LHF.

[Sakura Hana]

Are the people that were scumreading the one you refer to as LHF scum?

There might be!
But considering he only had 3 votes at the time I can't say for certain.

[Sakura Hana]

im gonna play this game regardless. i am just never gonna have a legitimate read on porkens.

So im assuming if you get a scumread that's not Porkens you will stop voting him? Or are you planning on policy lynching him.

[Sakura Hana]

Last time I saw Porkens, which was years ago he got himself mislynched after replacing in, I had the impression of him being kind of Lynchbaity. I am not having that kind of impression in this game.

[Sakura Hana]

So are you planning on ever telling us why you dislike Porkens? I mean it's clear Porkens in'd due to your in:

/in mini

/in mini

[Sakura Hana]

Ok I'll let that go by if you promise to play the game normally with everyone else and just ignore Porkens. It'll be impossible to read you otherwise.

[Sakura Hana]

Scum team -- Porkens, firebringer, Sakura Hana, NPOM, Norwegian something, Fredrick, all set.

wow how rude of u to put me with sakura. I am obviously going to kill sakura N1 as revenge.

But your beef is with Luna not with me

[Sakura Hana]

Why do you just believe Norwegian is the bigger question here...

So you're saying he wasnt a popular scumread at the time?
I dont think there's any incentive to lie about him being a popular scumread regardless, you even said he had scum equity or was someone else? I had the same feeling at the time which is why I called him LHF.
Whether Norwe's motives are to scumhunt me or shade me is another question to which i dont know the answer of.

[Sakura Hana]

@Firebringer - Couldn't hyper voting also be scum trying to get a mislynch?

it would have to be newb scum or scum who isn't thinking about how their actions will get their attention. Ur going to have to argue that scum!mohab is not trying to hide his pursuit of just mislynching anyone.

Or maybe scum!mohab knows that if he hyper votes people will get town reads on him. That's just more WIFOM.

Not everything in a game of mafia is WIFOM.

[Sakura Hana]

So, Looking at the mod's confirmation post, there's 1 player that hasn't confirmed yet.
Persivul is V/LA according to his profile so that could easily be the cause of him not posting. (Although an ego search turns out he's at least posting on his other games, V/LA supposed to end today so I hope we hear from him)
CD hasn't been on site for 2 days, could be the person that hasnt confirmed.
Looking at Blurry's site activity seems to be someone that posts once every blue moon.
Same with Drew.

Looks like we just got some people that just arent active in general. I don't think we can discern alignment from activity alone.

[Sakura Hana]

You don't even have a townread Drew?

You know, this is a good point.

[Sakura Hana]

You don't even have a townread Drew?

You know, this is a good point.

R U GOING TO HIDE FROM MY ACCUSATION UR AVATAR CHANGE IS WIFOM!

Your face is wifom.
And so is the fact that you claimed scum and call yourself an honest man, but you dont see me complaining.

[Sakura Hana]

You don't even have a townread Drew?

You know, this is a good point.

That’s shade, btw. You apply that to me but not the other three?

You mean the 2 ppl who havent posted and the person who posted in RVS and has vanished since?

[Sakura Hana]

"i thought we are out of RVS"
"no i have no reads"

how are we out of RVS if u have 0 reads buddy

I said the game is, not me.

Touchy, aren’t we.

If you're gonna get into semantics you used the word "we" implying that you are part of the group that is "out of RVS".
This is a bad response to an equally bad question.

You don't even have a townread Drew?

You know, this is a good point.

That’s shade, btw. You apply that to me but not the other three?

You mean the 2 ppl who havent posted and the person who posted in RVS and has vanished since?

You miss the point. You’re happy to throw shade my way as I begin to post but not the others, regardless of whether they’ve posted.

Because you are posting and are apparently reading or skimming.
The others havent posted and may or may not have reads when they do post.

[Sakura Hana]

You’re pressing this point. I’ve explained myself. I’m not required to have town reads yet and I’m not required to justify that either.

True, but you could have just said THAT instead of attacking me. And when I made that post you hadnt said that you didnt like townreading people early.

You guys have collectively spewed 13 odd pages of shit. Suggesting I can get an accurate read in all that mess is optimistic at the least.

Several people here have gotten reads, and even if you're slow at getting reads or think that nothing can be gained from such, that doesnt mean you cant be asked if you have any TRs.

The other guys not posting is also what I’m waiting for. I’d like to see how they engage. They’re kind of critical to the game too.

This is also something that you could've said. Instead of attacking me.

[Sakura Hana]

@sakura u alright? ur in such serious mode right now.

Well that's the big difference between me and my alt, and you already knew I wasnt gonna hold back this game when I talked to you to invite you.

[Sakura Hana]

sakura, quick, mohab.

3 townreads. Where my scum at?

I had those 2 as townreads pages ago, stop being slow

[Sakura Hana]

Answer me this - why the scrutiny on me

Because you are posting and are apparently reading or skimming.

and will you do the same to the other late posters?

That depends on their entrances/posts/reads.

[Sakura Hana]

sakura, r u townreading norwee? should i be?

I am not townreading norwe as of right now.

[Sakura Hana]

anyone i don't have a read on that u think i should?

NPOM.
I think it's easy to tell he's just lynchbait.

[Sakura Hana]

I've played with Town Persivul recently and scum Persivul some months ago, I wish I could remember if there were any differences in post frequency, but I do know town persivul can be quite the spam poster.

[Sakura Hana]

I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt right now due to the V/LA.

[Sakura Hana]

i don't think activity is a good measure for persivul. He isn't affraid to post as scum. He is pretty good scum player from my experience with him

Yeah that's what I couldnt remember, but thanks for confirming it.

[Sakura Hana]

i have legitimate strong townread on sakura now.

I'm curious when and why did u get this strong townread of me, I thought you'd have been able to get this way earlier than when you expressed it, but only now u get a legitimate one.

[Sakura Hana]

Ok I like that explanation you can be town too.

[Sakura Hana]

Ok I like that explanation you can be town too.

Since when does FB explain stuff? Not sure that is enough for a TR tbh...

It looks genuine and legit.

[Sakura Hana]

Btw Quick when did u go from believing NPOM's claim to scumreading them?

[Sakura Hana]

K maybe i jumped the gun townreading you and i retract it.

[Sakura Hana]

K maybe i jumped the gun townreading you and i retract it.

Let's talk about that process? For me, the only thing saving NPOM rn is their claim.

So? A person is either town or scum.
If there's scum motive behind their actions then they are scum regardless of what they claimed.
If what they claimed and how is towny then there's no scum motive behind their actions.

[Sakura Hana]

What is the Scum motive for claiming VT? After ~reasons~ which I won't mention?

Exactly my point, so why, are you scumreading the slot.

[Sakura Hana]

Out of the active posters, I would say both FB and NPOM have the best shot at being Scum.

I'll do whatever Fire does.

VOTE: Persivul

This makes me want you to eat lunch.

When you had previously said:

I take back my TR on you. I can see what you are saying, but that's not the impression I get from NPOM's play here. He either genuinely doesn't want a NK on him (which I have been guilty of before, honestly) or he is makes a WEIRD ASS PLAY here as Scum.

For now, I believe his claim.

Of course I don't want to be killed how am I supposed to help the town win?

That's the thing... You are low key saying, "No need to kill me because I am VT, look elsewhere" and that implies you think you are good at this game and can solve without being a PR.

Which looks like you forgot you had a townread on your slot, specially considering i called the slot LHF/Lynchbait and you fought me on it.

[Sakura Hana]

*had a townread on his slot.

[Sakura Hana]

oops, I forgot my read on someone as Scum. I am probably borderline at this point.

What is this supposed to mean.

[Sakura Hana]

oops, I forgot my read on someone as Scum. I am probably borderline at this point.

What is this supposed to mean.

It means I have more in my head then forgetting what my reads are.

I...
Still dont understan what you meant to say here.

[Sakura Hana]

your ISO doesnt explain much either.

[Sakura Hana]

VOTE: Quick
k

[Sakura Hana]

k

[Sakura Hana]

k

Are you feeling okay? You seem stressed. How about a nice hot bath?

No and No.

[Sakura Hana]

BTW...

FB is just Scum here for thinking I was riled up. Because he tried to instill that in me so he could use it later.

Okay, GLHF

lolwhat, are we even reading the same game?

[Sakura Hana]

From doing a Double ISO on Quick and FB it seems that the one trying to rile up someone is you to him, and he even has you as a townread so I dont see any evidence of what you're saying.

[Sakura Hana]

UNVOTE:
Ok quick might be town, but even if he is im not taking his posts seriously...

[Sakura Hana]

so u were abrasive and hostile for that joke?

I'm not interested in this rn... Just die because you are Scum...

dude if ur mad about something just come out and say "hey firebringer i don't like that post and it makes me mad." u firing back with the whole "well i think ur brain dead" was weird and i thought it was just bad banter.

And I 100% agree with this.

[Sakura Hana]

Also i'd like Sakura/Quick to actually explain why they tr FB, because that shit makes little sense to me right now.

Firebringer is an old friend and knows all my weaknesses and It hasnt felt like he's trying to exploit them, a scum!FB would have

probably

TR me much earlier considering I got into the game from the get go and would've been pretty easy to call me TR due to meta and I would be none the wiser. His explanation on his TR of me matches his play around me and so I figured he's probably town.

You're too fluffy and pockety compared to our last game FB. There's a pretty big difference.

Our last game he was pretty obsessed with me, but, I feel he was MORE fluffy on fungi mafia.

[Sakura Hana]

Basically my feeling also comes from the fact that Firebringer is a pretty strong player, he is perfectly capable of playing normally,

but where's the fun in that

, and getting himself townread in the process. Considering he's just being fluffy he's just having fun, and being in an environment of people that arent very familiar with him

to my knowledge

he'd have a much easier time just playing normally and getting townread as scum, than whatever he's doing right now, it feels kind of anti-scum, if you know what i mean.

There's a non zero chance he's playing this way in order to pocket specific people

including me

, and you're free to point and laugh at me if he flips scum, but at this point I don't think he's doing anything to advance any specific agenda.

[Sakura Hana]

Oh and talking reads, I do agree that now this is more similar to the town norwegian than the scum norwegian i've seen. So norwegian can go into the town bin too.

[Sakura Hana]

Oh and talking reads, I do agree that now this is more similar to the town norwegian than the scum norwegian i've seen. So norwegian can go into the town bin too.

What are you basing this on? Observing Fungi Mafia? I haven’t played with you before right?

You really are forgetful huh.
Subject: Mini Normal 2124 [Endgame]

So to make things easy.

Hi, I'm Luna Fox.
Most of you know me as Sakura Hana.
Others may know me as Kaede Akamatsu.

[Sakura Hana]

I mean, that game Ali kept calling me Sakura despite me being on my alt.

[Sakura Hana]

Huh, and all this time i thought you joined here coz you knew i was Luna Fox.
In the dead pt of fungi i also said I would play on my main next.

[Sakura Hana]

Anyway.
Luna Fox is my "nice" alt (even tho sometimes i end up being not nice as Luna, old habits die hard and everything).
And that's pretty much the only difference.

[Sakura Hana]

Cooldog, the answer to that is no, you can find that in the normal game page, the only reason the jester discussion went on it's because it was clear some people believed it was possible and their reactions needed to be examined in that light.

[Sakura Hana]

Town hunting hurts town in the early days because scum will be inclined to kill the stronger town reads.

Huh, i actually never looked at it that way.

[Sakura Hana]

ANNNNND this is why meta is shit. Scum play around their town meta and then town play around their town meta. It means nothing. Meta defense on page 10 is also ridiculous. You are essentially claiming, "hay, at the start of the game I always do this. I did this, ergo I am town". If you ever draw scum you are going to do the exact same thing and make this defense. God, I wish I were a double voter.

I'm pretty sure I never said it made me town but that it was NAI for me.

[Sakura Hana]

Cooldog, the answer to that is no, you can find that in the normal game page, the only reason the jester discussion went on it's because it was clear some people believed it was possible and their reactions needed to be examined in that light.

But why are you entertaining such a degenerate discussion then?

As I said, I was figuring out Mohab's (and others) motives on the light of them believing a Jester to be possible.

[Sakura Hana]

Why does it feel like all the old players hate meta? I get it, a bunch of people do meta wrong, but still it's SOME basis to start your reads.

[Sakura Hana]

ANNNNND this is why meta is shit. Scum play around their town meta and then town play around their town meta. It means nothing. Meta defense on page 10 is also ridiculous. You are essentially claiming, "hay, at the start of the game I always do this. I did this, ergo I am town". If you ever draw scum you are going to do the exact same thing and make this defense. God, I wish I were a double voter.

I'm pretty sure I never said it made me town but that it was NAI for me.

looking back this is fair. But it is odd that you are defending yourself based off of meta and not your actual in-game actions in themselves.

I guess I can see how you'd look at it that way, but these people arent familiar with me and I'm a person that's stubborn and in no interest to change my views based on a scumread, the purpose of my posting was to say "Me not scumhunting is something I've done as town, and ergo i could also do it as scum to fake my townplay" To help them read me rather than to defend myself, in a way where I find it fair if there's something ASIDE from just "not scumhunting" as a reason to scumread me.

[Sakura Hana]

Considering your catch up brought quite a bit of information that i haven't finished parsing yet, you're forgiven.

[Sakura Hana]

Ah yes, i do remember before in other games playing with people that would refuse to out their townreads, I guess that explains it, I always thought they had something to hide.

[Sakura Hana]

So what i get from this is that Cooldog thinks it's odd for Norwegian to scumread firebringer for not townreading me?
When norwegian scumreads firebringer for townreading me?

[Sakura Hana]

It'd be a pretty odd thing to lie about considering it's easily verifiable, dont think Cooldog's intent is to misconstruct events and it's more likely, he read it incorrectly.

[Sakura Hana]

Holy shit it's Farkran, I like.

[Sakura Hana]

So norweigan votes for a guy who agrees with his town read and is on the same wagon with someone he scum reads.

I probably messed this up in previous posts.

Yes, now u got it correct.
I don't see this as inherently scummy tho, I used to, and that turned to be wrong more often than not.

[Sakura Hana]

man where is his majesty?

Yeah, I was half excited to play with him again.
Speaking of where people are, is it just me or NPOM's activity seems to have diminished when the pressure on him faded.

[Sakura Hana]

man where is his majesty?

Yeah, I was half excited to play with him again.
Speaking of where people are, is it just me or NPOM's activity seems to have diminished when the pressure on him faded.

He is probably all like, "WTH, why are there so many pages? Do I really want to play this?" If he's Town here.

If that's how he was like he'd have replaced out instead of not saying anything.

[Sakura Hana]

man where is his majesty?

Yeah, I was half excited to play with him again.
Speaking of where people are, is it just me or NPOM's activity seems to have diminished when the pressure on him faded.

There's someone else who's activity has been fading.

I can't recall, maybe Mohab?

[Sakura Hana]

Holy shit it's Farkran, I like.

I remember your name and i am sure you are the alt (or main) of someone i have played with but i am not... recalling

Luna maybe?

Yeah Luna Fox is my alt.

[Sakura Hana]

More about? or More from.

[Sakura Hana]

@drew:
Seems like we have different definitions of Low Hanging Fruit.
My definition of Low Hanging Fruit is synomim of Lynchbait, what's yours?

These two posts in tandem appear to be attempts to get attention off currently posting players and into the dark.

How is my post, exactly, doing that when it's doing the complete opposite?

Also you seem to have missed these posts:

How about townhunting and scumhunting at the same time?

Sure i do that sometimes, when something scummy pops up at me.

ANNNNND this is why meta is shit. Scum play around their town meta and then town play around their town meta. It means nothing. Meta defense on page 10 is also ridiculous. You are essentially claiming, "hay, at the start of the game I always do this. I did this, ergo I am town". If you ever draw scum you are going to do the exact same thing and make this defense. God, I wish I were a double voter.

I'm pretty sure I never said it made me town but that it was NAI for me.

Becuase you're also assuming that I brought my meta to be townread, when my intention was to tell people that me not scumhunting is NAI for me.

[Sakura Hana]

I'm also not assuming here - you're making that claim yourself. Claiming it makes you NAI is also unreasonable in one sense. You wanting us to read you as null assumes that reading you as null is not reading you as scum, ergo you're more likely town.

To be read as null has no basis. Why would you not want to have it point to you as town? If you are town, after all, aren't you trying to show your innocence? Why would you want to leave any room to doubt your position?

I mean, I'm fine with getting scumread for stuff, but im helping people read me by telling them that those things arent "scumtells" and just "nulltells" in my specific case. It's not that I dont want to "show my innocence", but if you're gonna scumread me for something i do in all my games then your chance of hitting scum with me is no better than random.

However tho:

The first quote is a bit of a cop out. You basically say 'I only town read, I don't scum read, until I actually do then that's fine, but otherwise I don't do that so trust me I'm town.' You can't make a claim, point to meta then contradict that claim and then wonder why you're being picked up on it.

The only answer I have for this it's, just it's a hard habit to break, I could give you a long explanation on it but

You have played wtih me before

, and back when I was a more scumhunting kind of player even tho that was several years ago. You may not remember that game tho.
When i made an alt called Luna Fox I decided to try townhunting instead and I ended up liking it, so I adopted that to my main, and that's how that happened.
Anyway the thing is that, I decided to not hold back on anything this game because I felt that sometimes I was letting myself be held back by my own fears of expressing my own opinions on things, and I guess as a result part of my playstyle that is scumhunting has resurfaced without me even realizing it. I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing tho.

[Sakura Hana]

Becuase you're also assuming that I brought my meta to be townread, when my intention was to tell people that me not scumhunting is NAI for me.

Don't you think that town SHOULD scumhunt though? And if so why don't you want to help town? Is it lack of confidence?

Technically I do tho?
Townhunting is basically find town, and then PoE scum.

But yeah, I mean i found that my scum hit ratio was larger when I townhunt and my getting mislynched ratio was lower.

[Sakura Hana]

Anyway.

One thing i do not understand is why people think that I self-meta with the purpose of getting townread.
If there I was using self-meta for the purpose of getting townread It would mean that I'm purposefully and knowingly using a towntell that I know I only use as town and that would be a trust tell.

I self meta to avoid getting scumread for things that are NAI in my case.
Anything else is fair game.

If there are things that I only do as town and know them, I'll do them in my scum games.
If there are things that I only do as town and dont know them then they are a viable way to meta read me via towntells. But then I wouldnt self-meta about them since I'm unaware of them.

Now that you know, can we please drop this self-meta from talk from like pages ago, and read me on the rest of my play.
Thanks.

Any further inquiries or scumreads based on me "not scumhunting" (even tho i ended up doing it) will be ignored and idc anymore at this point to correct people coz it's getting tiring to repeat it.

[Sakura Hana]

Sakura - strong metaread

Be careful, the

boomers

or whatever firebringer's been calling them are gonna come eat you alive xD
Now on a more serious note imma check what you mean about Quick.

[Sakura Hana]

@Farkran: You mean these posts?

UNVOTE: NPOM

In case it matters.

That was the hammer.

Christ.

[Sakura Hana]

Yes

And a lot of his followups and takes. 363 is an astrologist comment, the 1v1 vs frederick is terrible on his side and i don't understand his read of popopo.

pedit: you've not proven anything though

I had a scumread on them at some point, but after the Firebringer thing happened it felt like they were scumreading firebringer out of anger than anything else, and that's what made me think the slot was probably town at that point. What's your take on that?

[Sakura Hana]

Porkens - this wagon had no reason to exist except pressure and i think the verdict is town

What?

Persivul - bad slot due to interactions around him more than his participation (= none)

What?

Those arent the only awkward things in that readslist.

[Sakura Hana]

He thinks, therefore he exists.

[Sakura Hana]

As another example this:

NPOM - the vehicle towards out of RVS

I dont understand how that's the "vehicle towards out of RVS" if he means he was wagoned, 3 vote wagon on a 13 player game isnt much of anything. And there was also Quick's Jester fake claim and all the discussion around it which also served as an exit of RVS.

[Sakura Hana]

So will be nice if Farkran enlightens us!

[Sakura Hana]

He thinks, therefore he exists.

EXCUSE ME SAKURA

BUT WE HAVE YET TO SCIENTIFICALLY PROVE THAT I HAVE THE ABILITY TO THINK

Then we'll just have to analyze it... scientifically:

i think

I think

i think

I think

i think

I think

i think

i think

I think

i think

And done.

[Sakura Hana]

Yes

And a lot of his followups and takes. 363 is an astrologist comment, the 1v1 vs frederick is terrible on his side and i don't understand his read of popopo.

pedit: you've not proven anything though

I had a scumread on them at some point, but after the Firebringer thing happened it felt like they were scumreading firebringer out of anger than anything else, and that's what made me think the slot was probably town at that point. What's your take on that?

[Sakura Hana]

You didn't even talk about Norwegian in this "wall"

He did, Frederick even made a cut version that only showed his talk about Norwegian.

[Sakura Hana]

That was a case? I thought that was a catchup

[Sakura Hana]

I'm tempted to vote Porkens just to form 2 dueling wagons, but I wanna vote drew more and that's mainly coz i dont TR him and he SRs me and seems to not understand anything of what im doing at all.

[Sakura Hana]

That is L-2 btw

[Sakura Hana]

Also it's good to know that popo can do scumhunting without being at L-1

[Sakura Hana]

Actually?

VOTE: Farkran

This is a good vote.

[Sakura Hana]

Despite everything else, Drew has shown the willingness to work with people that engage him on his different points in his case, 821 is a good example of that:

2. I misread that. Apologies. That actually does change things a little for me with you.

[Sakura Hana]

Wasnt that CD?, I may be mixing up who wrote what about who.

[Sakura Hana]

I checked fungi, they were town. So what are you actually trying to say here?!

Ah no, you're right, it was drew.

[Sakura Hana]

There's something about Farkran that feels different about his last game with me but I can't put my finger on what.

[Sakura Hana]

Until I can figure out how I feel about Farkran i dont feel confident in lynching Drew or Farkran.

[Sakura Hana]

He's at L-3 actually, Quick switched vote.

P-Edit x10000000: Can i post yet.

[Sakura Hana]

Actually, yeah fuck it, porkens it is.
VOTE: Porkens

[Sakura Hana]

FINALLY!

[Sakura Hana]

VOTE: mohab

[Sakura Hana]

I literally cant be arsed to disentangle all the WIFOM on Mohab's latests posts, so im just gonna assume they are just trying to disrupt whatever's happening.

[Sakura Hana]

UNVOTE:
Those emotions dont sound fake to me.

[Sakura Hana]

Also

Could we please avoid lynching to give Persivul enough time to catch up.

With the way wagons and votes are going right now we might end up with another Fungi mafia and that's no good.

[Sakura Hana]

I absolutely hate this, I want to become better at mafia but I don't know what to do.

I suggest you hydra with someone willing to teach you.

[Sakura Hana]

UNVOTE:
Those emotions dont sound fake to me.

I think you're being naive.

Maybe, but, they have been pretty absent lately and those feelings match up with their latest activity. I feel they are being pretty honest and that sound very townie to me.

[Sakura Hana]

I have not been using any of their posts to read them because all the posts they have made that I am aware of does not seem to determine their alignment.

What reads do you ACTUALLY have then.

[Sakura Hana]

I have not been using any of their posts to read them because all the posts they have made that I am aware of does not seem to determine their alignment.

What reads do you ACTUALLY have then.

Right now, I have yet to find a single real read. I'm still asking questions in a bid to get a read.

Surprised you dont have a read of me in either direction considering how much I've posted. What are you doing to find those reads then if you've been asking questions and gaining nothing.

[Sakura Hana]

.
.
.

[Sakura Hana]

VOTE: Fred

[Sakura Hana]

I never understood why sometimes people quote things they arent meant to, never happened to me asides from misclicking. Does it have to do with multiquote? coz i never use that.

[Sakura Hana]

That quote really doesnt like you.

[Sakura Hana]

sakura do u really think a scum player would sit here and tell us they have no reads.

That is mind blowing baffling to me to think of as a scum strategy.

Avoiding Associations.
If he's actually town tho, he can take my vote as an incentive to generate reads.

[Sakura Hana]

Ok that's much better than just "I have no reads"

[Sakura Hana]

Super Town:

Firebringer
Mohab500

Towny:

Fredrick A Campbell
Drew-Sta
Quick
CooLDoG
popopopopopopo
NorwegianboyEE
NoPowerOverMe

Leftovers:

Farkran
Persivul
Porkens

You know, it's kinda funny how everything falls into place.
VOTE: Farkran

[Sakura Hana]

I just now realized i townread everyone except 3 people lol.

[Sakura Hana]

how is drew town again? I don't remember u stating why u townread him

I mentioned earlier I thought his questioning me was in good faith and willing to reconsider after said questions.

[Sakura Hana]

The one time I considered voting him was before I noticed that and also partially OMGUS.

[Sakura Hana]

How can you even be this certain about Firebringer and Mohab500?

I've mentioning my reasoning for both previously already.
I felt FB's read progression on me matched his play and it makes sense from a town FB.
I felt Mohad's confused post felt like a lost townie (well probably not exactly with those words, but you can see the respective post).

No one else has done anything i dont consider fakeable but their posting seems town motivated (Towny tier).

[Sakura Hana]

What you read as town I read as null because I could imagine scum doing these exact things.

I've yet to see a post like what Mohad did made by scum, much less with such emotion, I know scum COULD do those things, but is that what's happening here? In theory a perfect scum player is capable of faking anything, I can tell that at the very least the emotion isnt faked, and considering Mohab's drop in activity and then his complaints about how confusing the game seems looks more like a towny that's struggling to scumhunt than scum that's trying to pretend being confused. Probably because i've had moments like those way back when i was a beginner I can imagine how Mohab's confusion came to be.

As for Firebringer is more of the fact that we know each other well, and while i usually have a hard time getting a definite read on FB, he's perfectly capable of abusing my weaknesses in order to pocket me, if he was scum, he'd have resorted to that much sooner than when he did.

[Sakura Hana]

Honestly tho, in future games i might take a hint from CD and avoid mentioning my townreads and see how that works out.

[Sakura Hana]

Seems like something interesting to try out.

[Sakura Hana]

730 - brilliant post. Disects behaviour. Might not be all correct, but insightful and has a stance.

????

[Sakura Hana]

Man I didnt know that quoting something and re-stating what it's in said quote was doing a "BRILLIANT POST"

[Sakura Hana]

730 - brilliant post. Disects behaviour. Might not be all correct, but insightful and has a stance.

????

I laid down the objective fact pattern of the interactions in that post.

Well yes.
I dunno why just stating facts stated in said quotes is something worth so much praise, that's the thing.
You did do some analysis and you arrived to some read, but neither 730 nor 731 show the read, just the facts, and im confused as to why this is Brilliant.
Maybe im being nitpicky but i found it really weird.

[Sakura Hana]

I mean, I OMGUS'd him and then he said he never even scumread me, despite his posts showing suspicion of me.

[Sakura Hana]

Which is still bothering me and that's why he's left in Leftovers.

[Sakura Hana]

I like how Persivul felt the same as me thing about Mohab's reaction and explained it better, Persivul becomes a townread, also Drew goes back to leftovers.

[Sakura Hana]

Drew's wall wrt Nor, specially the part about where Nor attacks FB for his townread of me is a complete misrepresentation of events, this has been explained at length before, still calling it a chainsaw and when Norway explains it in detail to Drew he also misrepresents that.
IF there's people saying that Nor is chainsawing FB in that post, it's clearly not, unless you think attacking someone for townreading someone else is a chainsaw. And then adding aditional scum motive to the explanation so you can understand it, in the form of "WHY DO YOU NEED TO CLARIFY?"

I felt it odd that you now chose to clarify these posts. Like what you posted in the first place was somehow not what you meant. The other point is - we weren't dissecting what you meant, as that was clear. We were dissecting the intent behind it.

Like i dont get this, he made that post precisely because you were misreading his post (Same with CD, who, after a 2nd pass, he actually got it right then).

[Sakura Hana]

I've got TR's on both of the leading wagons, but i scumread Drew-Sta more.

?

[Sakura Hana]

But you TR both?

[Sakura Hana]

i think he was saying he had townreads who were on both wagons

Ohhh ok.

[Sakura Hana]

At this point im not sure if Drew-sta is misrepresenting things on purpose or just flat out stubborn, which actually means i made a mistake in my previous assesment of what made me townread him.

[Sakura Hana]

Well his "consistent narrative" has been him saying that Norway chainsaw FB, when FB was townreading me.

[Sakura Hana]

CD also made the same mistake, but after I told him, he re-read that part and noticed the mistake. Drew-sta, hasn't actually tried to fix his mistake on that matter, and Nor's attempts at clarification are viewed as an "odd timing". Idk something feels like he's just looking for reasons to scumread Norway than scumhunting him.

[Sakura Hana]

CD also made the same mistake, but after I told him, he re-read that part and noticed the mistake. Drew-sta, hasn't actually tried to fix his mistake on that matter, and Nor's attempts at clarification are viewed as an "odd timing". Idk something feels like he's just looking for reasons to scumread Norway than scumhunting him.

Sure, but tell me how you expect Drew to play based on how they have played so far? Do you expect Drew to come in late to the thread, make a huge wall, play around a bit more, then make a case on someone if he is Scum here?

I would expect him to at least correct his mistake first and foremost.

[Sakura Hana]

The main reason im not voting Drew right now it's coz I got a gut scumread on Fark and the way he joined the Drew wagon and has stayed there doesnt look like busing.

[Sakura Hana]

Although in that case it means im probably wrong on a TR?.

[Sakura Hana]

It was just a catch up post

What.

[Sakura Hana]

His catch up had misrepresentation of events, his consistent stubborness to fix said mistake could be personality but still, What i disliked the most was this misrepresentation despite Norwe's attempts at telling him what the mistake he was making was, and then attacking Norwe for that too.

[Sakura Hana]

It was just a catch up post

What.

You are acting like I am speaking another language. Do you understand the idea of a catch up post or not? It's kinda like a formality that is sometimes done to get your feet wet before you take a dive. Is this a foreign concept to you or what? Maybe it's because you can hardly bother yourself to quote people let alone actually dissect things post by post.

What part of "Town until proven otherwise" don't you get here? Pressure for pressure's sake is a dumb ass fucking way to play...

Because you're acting like Scum can't be caught on a catch up (For reference the person Ali said in the post that had a scummy catch up Flipped scum)