Mini Normal 2143 (Game over)

[Drew-Sta]

Morning all. RVS going mental as anything.

[Drew-Sta]

RVS is long gone. Speak reads, or hold your silence.

Ooh, attitude. I rikey.

No reads yet. Still watching.

[Drew-Sta]

Who is Porkens?

That’s a brilliant name btw.

[Drew-Sta]

Morning again.

Still reading through. I’m usually not quite this inactive but weekends mean kid time.

Tbh, nothing has triggered me. The bickering is amusing reading though, so keep going.

[Drew-Sta]

U trigger me Drew-Sta.

You don't even have a townread Drew?

I’m not going to lie. I haven’t done more than a cursory read through on the phone. No real feel and no real inconsistency.

Re town reads - I’ve mentioned this before in other games. I get really bad confbias. I don’t try to town read. If I do, I find it hard to consider their future behaviour in a critical light. I also generally go after people and the same happens.

It’s something I’m working on.

That’s a long answer to basically say ‘Not yet, and I’m trying not to laser on someone D1.’

lets kill the king.

if i kill the king, i become next in line for the throne. even though im not his son.

captain firebringer, the prince of town. Sounds good to me
VOTE: Persivul

I thought we were out of RVS?

This is an odd thing to do given the stage of game.

[Drew-Sta]

Fucks sake. Why can I never post images properly...

[Drew-Sta]

You don't even have a townread Drew?

You know, this is a good point.

That’s shade, btw. You apply that to me but not the other three?

[Drew-Sta]

"i thought we are out of RVS"
"no i have no reads"

how are we out of RVS if u have 0 reads buddy

I said the game is, not me.

Touchy, aren’t we.

[Drew-Sta]

You don't even have a townread Drew?

You know, this is a good point.

That’s shade, btw. You apply that to me but not the other three?

You mean the 2 ppl who havent posted and the person who posted in RVS and has vanished since?

You miss the point. You’re happy to throw shade my way as I begin to post but not the others, regardless of whether they’ve posted.

[Drew-Sta]

"i thought we are out of RVS"
"no i have no reads"

how are we out of RVS if u have 0 reads buddy

I said the game is, not me.

Touchy, aren’t we.

i touch everything!

but if u have no reads, u doing a random vote right now isn't out of the question. Or am i wrong?

I don’t like random voting. Just not my schtick.

i touch everything!

FB is Joe Biden confirmed.

lol.

[Drew-Sta]

"i thought we are out of RVS"
"no i have no reads"

how are we out of RVS if u have 0 reads buddy

I said the game is, not me.

Touchy, aren’t we.

If you're gonna get into semantics you used the word "we" implying that you are part of the group that is "out of RVS".
This is a bad response to an equally bad question.

You don't even have a townread Drew?

You know, this is a good point.

That’s shade, btw. You apply that to me but not the other three?

You mean the 2 ppl who havent posted and the person who posted in RVS and has vanished since?

You miss the point. You’re happy to throw shade my way as I begin to post but not the others, regardless of whether they’ve posted.

Because you are posting and are apparently reading or skimming.
The others havent posted and may or may not have reads when they do post.

You’re pressing this point. I’ve explained myself. I’m not required to have town reads yet and I’m not required to justify that either.

You guys have collectively spewed 13 odd pages of shit. Suggesting I can get an accurate read in all that mess is optimistic at the least.

The other guys not posting is also what I’m waiting for. I’d like to see how they engage. They’re kind of critical to the game too.

[Drew-Sta]

You guys have collectively spewed 13 odd pages of shit. Suggesting I can get an accurate read in all that mess is optimistic at the least.

This is exactly why i joined this game to be fair.

Tbh I enjoy the shit talk. I just don’t expect to get much out of it.

If you don't spew pages of shit... can you even say you're playing mafia?

lol

You’re pressing this point. I’ve explained myself. I’m not required to have town reads yet and I’m not required to justify that either.

True, but you could have just said THAT instead of attacking me. And when I made that post you hadnt said that you didnt like townreading people early.

You guys have collectively spewed 13 odd pages of shit. Suggesting I can get an accurate read in all that mess is optimistic at the least.

Several people here have gotten reads, and even if you're slow at getting reads or think that nothing can be gained from such, that doesnt mean you cant be asked if you have any TRs.

The other guys not posting is also what I’m waiting for. I’d like to see how they engage. They’re kind of critical to the game too.

This is also something that you could've said. Instead of attacking me.

1. I’m not attacking you. Trust me. If I’m attacking you, you’d know. I’m simply responding to your firm probing (yes, someone please make a joke at that).
2. I’ve never said that? I responded fairly clearly that it was effectively too early? I’m also wary of townreading people when the full gamut of players isn’t posting. Aren’t you?
3. I just did say that?

Fuck me dude. You got a pineapple up your arse or something?

Answer me this - why the scrutiny on me, and will you do the same to the other late posters?

[Drew-Sta]

Answer me this - why the scrutiny on me

Because you are posting and are apparently reading or skimming.

and will you do the same to the other late posters?

That depends on their entrances/posts/reads.

Ok, fair enough.

[Drew-Sta]

FB, why Persivul over any of the other lurks?

Because it’s safe. Which is why it got my attention.

[Drew-Sta]

Alright. It's Monday morning, I don't have meetings for two hours, and I have coffee.

We're at 32 pages. My reading from 23 to 32 showed Cooldog come into the scene. I think the thing he stated about meta just makes my heart sing so happy about that. Nevertheless there's a few things I am keen to go back and read through so in the process of going 1-32 now.

I will be more active from here on in.

[Drew-Sta]

This website shits me. I went through and +'d all the posts I wanted to quote and none of it worked...

I have to fucking do it again now...

[Drew-Sta]

It's a big fat wall. Trump wishes he could build what I built.

Spoiler:

If someone does something scummy on the first page, it's still scummy. Wanting to lynch a claimed jester because we may not find other scum is scummy. Why not just find scum?

I agree with this.

That's such a weird way of looking at it: I am proposing we lynch him in case we have no other reads, I'd rather mislynch a Jester than deal with a headache claiming to be a Jester the entire game, especially if we have no better leads. But I am not adverse to lynching someone else if we have to, I guess.

It's also instaloss coz no one would lynch the Jester and the Jester wouldnt lynch scum.

I disagree jester is still town

Lynching negative utility is low-hanging fruit in my opinion

They are a voting member of the town.

I know it's early but entertaining the Jester discussion is bizarre. 87 is the most strange I've seen in a while too.

Norwegian, thoughts on this Jester talk? What do you think should be done if there is a Jester?

I think jester talk is fine because it can be used to see who's got a scummy mindset or not. But i'm pretty sure it's just a fake claim so i don't personally care much about it. I don't believe this game actually has a jester.

How..? It's the definition of WIFOM.

I am Town reading quick.

I am scum reading Mohab. Scummy is as scummy does.

The views without justification get my attention here.

I claim vanilla town let's get on with Mohab.

This is oddball. VI or something...

Because there are other fish to fry.

And this is actually very silly.

Also I doubt any scum would've fallen for that, specially if at least one of their teammates is paying attention.

Speculating on scum's reaction to a reaction test is WIFOM.

What does it matter anyway? You're giving scum the opportunity to hide from you by describing how they would or wouldn't act? Or you're explaining away what is scum behaviour vs town behaviour? This comment is fishy.

NPOM looks like LHF to me right now.

Why?

If you believe his claim why does that not qualify as LHF for you.

Lynching a claimed townie is not LHF. It's easy NK, but not LHF.

There's WIFOM on what happens if he survives to D2 as well. Maybe then they become LHF, but not D1.

From my PoV, he does look scummy in a town way, that makes people just want to lynch him, but he's not even trying to accomplish any goal, and seems to believe he's found scum in Mohab and isnt convincing anyone either, plus it's weird to claim VT right then and there if he was scum, which makes him look like LHF for me. Because people want to lynch him for it.

You can't look scummy in a town way. You're either town acting suspiciously or not. Secondly, your emphasis on him being LHF is odd. Why are you guarding him?

My hot take is that Sakura, despite being second highest in activity, has not scumhunted at all.

I agree.

Oh hey, that's 2 soft shades already, any more takers?

You're very defensive at the slightest attention on you.

My hot take is that Sakura, despite being second highest in activity, has not scumhunted at all.

How very observant of you.

This is the sort of thing I consider for SvS, FTR.

Why?

This:

Wifom much?

There's WIFOM and there's things that make no sense.
So either I'm scum imitating my town game of townhunting over scumhunting, or I'm town.
No matter how much you ask me to hunt for scum in the "normal" way, That's not how I like to play, if you think that's scummy of me then sure go ahead and lynch me, that wont change how I play because I dont have fun playing that way.

... contradicts this:

Cool

Scumminess noted.

So I ask you, if I were scum why wouldnt I at least pretend to scumhunt?

Can I ask why?

And as a bonus, everything i've said about my meta and my personality is something you can research yourself, this isnt the first time I've been pushed for "not scumhunting" and i bet it wont be the last.

You seem to be doing a very hard job of townreading yourself for others sake. The continued push for people to meta you:

And as a bonus, everything i've said about my meta and my personality is something you can research yourself, this isnt the first time I've been pushed for "not scumhunting" and i bet it wont be the last.

... feels like 'Look! Look at it all! I'm town gais - I promise'. Then you turn around and do this:

You also said this based off a reply norwegian did to a post Quick made towards me:

Deflection. (Partner?)

Partner here seems to imply you think im scum and norwegian is my partner.
Am i wrong in that assumption?

... which is scum hunting.

Past few pages have been lots of bickering between NPOM and Sakura, with firebringer and Fredrick finally joining in. firebringer throws (personal) shade at Porkens and wants us to figure out who's the one person he's townreading, while Fredrick just has a lot of inquisitive questions regarding everyone else's reads (but hasn't actually posted any of his?).

Regarding NPOM and Sakura, the chatter was mostly useless, but I did get a strong feeling it was either TvT or SvT, I think a scum-coordinated argument like that would look a lot more doctored/polished if you get me? Not much else to point out regarding those two, will look in more specifics later and try to give a better read.

Fredrick and firebringers action strike some mild scum vibes here. Regarding Fredrick, their curious nature kind of invites me to think they're scum who wants people to feel they're participating without actually doing anything. firebringer's first few posts and shading at Porkens might just be scum wanting to mislynch with an excuse, though I would probably have to look at the meta's of the players to make more accurate reads, I think.

Tell me why a scum argument would be more coordinated or polished if they don't have daytalk (normal doesn't have DT)... This is a fishy statement to make. It's like... fake scum hunting.

Ok I'll let that go by if you promise to play the game normally with everyone else and just ignore Porkens. It'll be impossible to read you otherwise.

This is a strange interaction.

vote:porkens

sakura's point about shading without voting or even FOS is good, and firebringer is probably town.

I consider this sheeping and without good cause. Sits you in a healthy place for the wagon too.

vote:porkens

sakura's point about shading without voting or even FOS is good, and firebringer is probably town.

Why is her point about shading good?

shading people without calling them scummy or voting them does nothing except increase distrust between the town members. the fact that you even said "i never called you scum" after the shading is also very bad.

... that's, not what he did? I don't even think Porkens threw shade..? He critically analysed two posts that didn't fit together, and then laughed at it after, and then you come in a chainsaw? The claim Porkens made about them being active lurking is true - they are / were. Sakura having to refer to her meta as some sort of justification for her behavior wasn't actually answering the question but deflecting the issue.

Besides, there's nothing wrong with listening to others opinions.

Well, there is. We just haven't seen whether you're doing it for the right or wrong reason yet. It's an ambiguous decision making process which allows you an easy out.

vote:porkens

sakura's point about shading without voting or even FOS is good, and firebringer is probably town.

Why is her point about shading good?

shading people without calling them scummy or voting them does nothing except increase distrust between the town members. the fact that you even said "i never called you scum" after the shading is also very bad.

I don’t buy this. My “very observant” post about Sakura was scum hunting, and it led to useful discussion Through which we could develop our reads. I factually stated that I did not call her scum. That has no bearing on whether I think she or her actions are scummy. I’m not casting about trying to make people look scummy. I am asking direct questions and stating my thoughts in an effort to further the game state.

Your argument seems disingenuous to me.

Agree, it appeared to be a chainsaw.

why me? besides the fact i am scum

Well, that obviously means we are town.

Double reaction all the way....

Yeah, I saw that too. I can't make up my mind on NPOM.

This game does have way too many inactive players right now.

@Drew-Sta
@CooLDoG
@Blurryface3189
@Persivul

So, Looking at the mod's confirmation post, there's 1 player that hasn't confirmed yet.
Persivul is V/LA according to his profile so that could easily be the cause of him not posting. (Although an ego search turns out he's at least posting on his other games, V/LA supposed to end today so I hope we hear from him)
CD hasn't been on site for 2 days, could be the person that hasnt confirmed.
Looking at Blurry's site activity seems to be someone that posts once every blue moon.
Same with Drew.

Looks like we just got some people that just arent active in general. I don't think we can discern alignment from activity alone.

These two posts in tandem appear to be attempts to get attention off currently posting players and into the dark. Which is moving from difficult to lynch players and on to unable to be defended targets.

The decision to move there when neither of these players have formed strong scum reads they've advertised, plus the fact that they seem unwilling to push a wagon, suggests they're more comfortable with moving something on a player that is not posting, as they will struggle to defend themselves and if lynched, it is easy to absolve responsibility of their actions.

But why post once and then not post for several days? You are just asking to be scumread.

You sheep and then scum read but not really form any argument for it. It's proving difficult to defend your actions.

Nor pokes me at 416, then Sakura takes up the lead in 436 and Nor doesn't prod me again. This seems odd. Especially since both were the ones pushing for non-posters as possible suspects. The fact they didn't acknowledge each others posts on that either, plus what I've just said, appears to be distancing.

450 and 452 Nor reengages but doesn't push me at all. Sakura then drops off at 470.

So they either town read me now or don't care about the non-posters? I'm not following the behaviour at all.

i have legitimate strong townread on sakura now.

I'm curious when and why did u get this strong townread of me, I thought you'd have been able to get this way earlier than when you expressed it, but only now u get a legitimate one.

its the fact that i don't think ur trying to manipulate me in anyway. i think and this is just a theory (and u might try it next time ur scum) u would more or less use me as a foundation to get ur placeholder/foot in the game by locking me in for ur read and then maneuver from there. I think ur playing this without that when the easy option of manipulating me exists and I think even if ur going for a more serious game u would still try to manipulate me in some way.

So i wanted to make sure i didn't see u trying to get me to really townlock u.

This gets my attention from both.

Explaining what would 'allow you to be captured' by someone else via meta and then manipulated, is like... some weird buddying or something. I feel like Sakura's 'not going after someone' here if they have decent understanding of their gameplay to me matches with the whole 'look at my meta, I only town hunt' schtick.

To me it's SvT interaction and I'm leaning to Sakura being scum at this point.

They're very intent on knowing where people sit with them, and then get defensive when people push at them.

K maybe i jumped the gun townreading you and i retract it.

Let's talk about that process? For me, the only thing saving NPOM rn is their claim.

So? A person is either town or scum.
If there's scum motive behind their actions then they are scum regardless of what they claimed.
If what they claimed and how is towny then there's no scum motive behind their actions.

That's WIFOM. Of course intent is important. They're either lying or not. The trick is working out which.

What is the Scum motive for claiming VT? After ~reasons~ which I won't mention?

I think this is a little naive, or defending something that can't be defended e.g. I don't think you can defend a VT claim this early in the game. It's either a tactic or the play of a VI. I think this is one of the few times meta helps - is NPOW a VI? Their previous games can be indicative of this.

Out of the active posters, I would say both FB and NPOM have the best shot at being Scum.

I'll do whatever Fire does.

VOTE: Persivul

This makes me want you to eat lunch.

When you had previously said:

I take back my TR on you. I can see what you are saying, but that's not the impression I get from NPOM's play here. He either genuinely doesn't want a NK on him (which I have been guilty of before, honestly) or he is makes a WEIRD ASS PLAY here as Scum.

For now, I believe his claim.

Of course I don't want to be killed how am I supposed to help the town win?

That's the thing... You are low key saying, "No need to kill me because I am VT, look elsewhere" and that implies you think you are good at this game and can solve without being a PR.

Which looks like you forgot you had a townread on your slot, specially considering i called the slot LHF/Lynchbait and you fought me on it.

Gee, this appears to be scumhunting. But I thought you didn't do that...

...
You guys have collectively spewed 13 odd pages of shit. Suggesting I can get an accurate read in all that mess is optimistic at the least.
...

Considering recent events, one man's shit is another man's treasure.

You can fish through my shit all day long mate.

Scumreading a townplayer(Quick)

You seem so, so certain...

For clarity: How do you know Quick is a townplayer?

He seems engaged and trying to gamesolve.

And I just checked. He never even voted for Quick.

Quick could be scum...something’s making me hesitate though so it’s not strong

To me that's a scumread without saying it's a scumread.

Yeah... no.

I'm not sure i want to trust Firebringer anymore. Because their read on Sakura makes no sense. Why are they so obvtown bruh?
VOTE: Firebringer

FB's argument was very clear, actually. Your distrust of it seems fishy. I'm not one to white knight, FB could be scum. But your argument around it seems odd.

It's like you want to get rid of them.

Also i'd like Sakura/Quick to actually explain why they tr FB, because that shit makes little sense to me right now.

quick scumreads me dude.

Not hard enough.

This appears to be a scummy, lazy tactic. You're throwing shit at someone and misrepresenting another players view to push your own.

I consider this a tell.

Also, it's a minor take considering half the game is dead. But all of the wagons seen so far have been god-awful. Can we please get a good and decent one going on FB for the sake of my sanity. Tnx.

Including your own?

I'm not sure i want to trust Firebringer anymore. Because their read on Sakura makes no sense. Why are they so obvtown bruh?
VOTE: Firebringer

its the fact that i don't think ur trying to manipulate me in anyway. i think and this is just a theory (and u might try it next time ur scum) u would more or less use me as a foundation to get ur placeholder/foot in the game by locking me in for ur read and then maneuver from there. I think ur playing this without that when the easy option of manipulating me exists and I think even if ur going for a more serious game u would still try to manipulate me in some way.

I'm considering the fact that you've TR NPOM, Quick and now Sakura. I'm not seeing how this game makes sense if all scum are in lurkers. Are you just trying to pocket most of the active players? And what's this "they would manipulate me if i was scum" BS? How do you know that would be scum!Sakura's play here?

You're too fluffy and pockety compared to our last game FB. There's a pretty big difference.

In Fungi Mafia FB was actually lightly scum hunting, also picking a couple few TR's. Not handing them out like candy. Also, even though he always jokes. It was intertwined with actual solving. Here he just doesn't seem to care. As evidenced by wagoning either for some personal BS reason that has nothing to do with the game, or encouraging a wagon a dude that hasn't even posted FFS.
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p11828723

doesn't seem like a lazy scum norwe push

This makes me second guess my view on norwe, but I also think it's a case of nor pushing to get something started on someone.

fungi mafia cliff notes of Norwee:
--> Sometimes gave some insight to players usually mild mannered. Usually only gave long cases for why he thought a player was town.
--> Doesn't try to take control of game or lead. Perfectly willing to take a back seat.
--> Passiveness

Ur scumcase on me doesn't match this.

Yeah, im comfortable with u in my townreads.

Disagree. This isn't what they're doing here IMHO.

Number 1 and 2 don't correlate with their existing behaviour in this game. I checked fungi, they were town. So what are you actually trying to say here?!

I'll come back to 622.

Also i'd like Sakura/Quick to actually explain why they tr FB, because that shit makes little sense to me right now.

Firebringer is an old friend and knows all my weaknesses and It hasnt felt like he's trying to exploit them, a scum!FB would have

probably

TR me much earlier considering I got into the game from the get go and would've been pretty easy to call me TR due to meta and I would be none the wiser. His explanation on his TR of me matches his play around me and so I figured he's probably town.

You're too fluffy and pockety compared to our last game FB. There's a pretty big difference.

Our last game he was pretty obsessed with me, but, I feel he was MORE fluffy on fungi mafia.

Basically my feeling also comes from the fact that Firebringer is a pretty strong player, he is perfectly capable of playing normally,

but where's the fun in that

, and getting himself townread in the process. Considering he's just being fluffy he's just having fun, and being in an environment of people that arent very familiar with him

to my knowledge

he'd have a much easier time just playing normally and getting townread as scum, than whatever he's doing right now, it feels kind of anti-scum, if you know what i mean.

There's a non zero chance he's playing this way in order to pocket specific people

including me

, and you're free to point and laugh at me if he flips scum, but at this point I don't think he's doing anything to advance any specific agenda.

That's buddying to get them in your pocket.

Oh and talking reads, I do agree that now this is more similar to the town norwegian than the scum norwegian i've seen. So norwegian can go into the town bin too.

You and Nor sit at opposite ends of the spectrum on FB, which IMHO is of interest given the links I've drawn to you both.

I don’t think FB flipping scum would equate Sakura scum based on FB’s play around the slot.

And that right there is an interesting post. Basically absolving Sakura from being mafia if FB flips scum. Why would you do that? How do you have any certainty that is the case?! It's a post of certainty, and I cannot understand how you can be so certain about them.

651/post], [post]653, 660, 664, 666, 683 I'll come back to later as there's a lot to analyse in there for me.

Porkens vote in 696 is odd.

Drew has been lacking too. He came, he left. And everyone forgot im.

Now you touch on me again. And not in the 'sexy Norwegian chick' kind of way.

You seem to like to shift focus at times when focus is on you.

More votes on the pig please.

Why?

Scumreading a townplayer(Quick)

For clarity: How do you know Quick is a townplayer?

He seems engaged and trying to gamesolve.

And I just checked. He never even voted for Quick.

Quick could be scum...something’s making me hesitate though so it’s not strong

To me that's a scumread without saying it's a scumread.

So, NoPowerOverMe, you want(ed) more votes on Porkens because he is/was scumreading Quick, whom you assert is a town player. Is that an accurate representation of your thoughts?

This is accurate, but I think you're floating up the wrong shit show mate.

Porkens appears to be trying to trap people but not sure if that's scum hunting or trying to get townies lynched by their own rope.

Tl:dr - I think Nor, Sakura appear to be scum at this point. I think we need to wait for Farken and Pers to contribute before we can proceed much further.

VOTE: NorwegianboyEE

Pages 28-32 are odd and I need to go review again. CoolDog's entrance changed the games dynamic a bit. I have to sift through what they've posted better as my initial thoughts are it didn't read right in placed and also read very well in others.

[Drew-Sta]

Alright. It's Monday morning, I don't have meetings for two hours, and I have coffee.

We're at 32 pages. My reading from 23 to 32 showed Cooldog come into the scene. I think the thing he stated about meta just makes my heart sing so happy about that. Nevertheless there's a few things I am keen to go back and read through so in the process of going 1-32 now.

I will be more active from here on in.

This is scum.

VOTE: drewsta

Solid gold lock

I think Drew could be scum. Still doesn't seem like they are fully caught up, so I am waiting on that. They have no mention of scum reads, and they haven't expressed that they are taking the "find townie" strategy either.

But, why is this a solid gold scum read?

So explain to me why you believe I'd be scum?

[Drew-Sta]

Alright. It's Monday morning, I don't have meetings for two hours, and I have coffee.

We're at 32 pages. My reading from 23 to 32 showed Cooldog come into the scene. I think the thing he stated about meta just makes my heart sing so happy about that. Nevertheless there's a few things I am keen to go back and read through so in the process of going 1-32 now.

I will be more active from here on in.

This is scum.

VOTE: drewsta




Solid gold lock

I think Drew could be scum. Still doesn't seem like they are fully caught up, so I am waiting on that. They have no mention of scum reads, and they haven't expressed that they are taking the "find townie" strategy either.

But, why is this a solid gold scum read?

It’s a classic noncommittal oh I better post so it doesn’t look like I’m lurking what can I say that doesn’t vomit me in any way oh I know I’ll promis more later kinda post

Given I actually came good on my word and the above wall would suggest what I claimed was true to an observer (which it is - I seriously went through this fucking game thread twice - my sanity is now in danger) - where does that leave you?

I'm genuinely curious for reasons.

[Drew-Sta]

I've numbered things as everytime I go through and try to break out quotes, I fuck it up and look like a dickhead after, so this is easier.

@drew:
1. Seems like we have different definitions of Low Hanging Fruit.
My definition of Low Hanging Fruit is synomim of Lynchbait, what's yours?

These two posts in tandem appear to be attempts to get attention off currently posting players and into the dark.

2. How is my post, exactly, doing that when it's doing the complete opposite?

3. Also you seem to have missed these posts:

How about townhunting and scumhunting at the same time?

Sure i do that sometimes, when something scummy pops up at me.

ANNNNND this is why meta is shit. Scum play around their town meta and then town play around their town meta. It means nothing. Meta defense on page 10 is also ridiculous. You are essentially claiming, "hay, at the start of the game I always do this. I did this, ergo I am town". If you ever draw scum you are going to do the exact same thing and make this defense. God, I wish I were a double voter.

I'm pretty sure I never said it made me town but that it was NAI for me.

Becuase you're also assuming that I brought my meta to be townread, when my intention was to tell people that me not scumhunting is NAI for me.

1. No, we have the same definition.

2. I misread that. Apologies. That actually does change things a little for me with you.

3. No, I didn't. The first quote is a bit of a cop out. You basically say 'I only town read, I don't scum read, until I actually do then that's fine, but otherwise I don't do that so trust me I'm town.' You can't make a claim, point to meta then contradict that claim and then wonder why you're being picked up on it.

I'm also not assuming here - you're making that claim yourself. Claiming it makes you NAI is also unreasonable in one sense. You wanting us to read you as null assumes that reading you as null is not reading you as scum, ergo you're more likely town.

To be read as null has no basis. Why would you not want to have it point to you as town? If you are town, after all, aren't you trying to show your innocence? Why would you want to leave any room to doubt your position?

You keep talking about town hunting, but you're ok with people null pocketing you?

The logic is circular and not reasonable.

[Drew-Sta]

Guess I'm irrelevant now.

What is your view on Cooldog? I have to go back and review their big posts.

[Drew-Sta]

Self meta'ing is somewhat scummy to me tbh.

Guess I'm irrelevant now.

What is your view on Cooldog? I have to go back and review their big posts.

They are making themselves useful. I'm still reading that big wall of text Trump would be proud of.

[Drew-Sta]

FFS. Now it works...

@NPOM - I agree.

@FAC - It's pronounced 'Waaaahhll'.

[Drew-Sta]

anyone up

Up all the time. The wife is exhausted...

Hawr hawr.

Reading through recent posts. Will respond soon.

[Drew-Sta]

It leaves me with the fact that you are still scum trying to look town by reading the game and telling us what you think we think you should think.

Ok, we’ll see how that goes.

[Drew-Sta]

It leaves me with the fact that you are still scum trying to look town by reading the game and telling us what you think we think you should think.

whats this mean

He thinks I’m faking, basically.

[Drew-Sta]

Idk? I already feel kinda burnt out from this game. And it's been a glorious zero flips so far.

got to pace urself my dude.

Hahahahahahahahaha.

[Drew-Sta]

It leaves me with the fact that you are still scum trying to look town by reading the game and telling us what you think we think you should think.

whats this mean

He thinks I’m faking, basically.

? Was he referring to you?

I believe so.

Just doing stuff with kids. Be back in an hour or so.

[Drew-Sta]

I'm also not assuming here - you're making that claim yourself. Claiming it makes you NAI is also unreasonable in one sense. You wanting us to read you as null assumes that reading you as null is not reading you as scum, ergo you're more likely town.

To be read as null has no basis. Why would you not want to have it point to you as town? If you are town, after all, aren't you trying to show your innocence? Why would you want to leave any room to doubt your position?

1. I mean, I'm fine with getting scumread for stuff, but im helping people read me by telling them that those things arent "scumtells" and just "nulltells" in my specific case. It's not that I dont want to "show my innocence", but if you're gonna scumread me for something i do in all my games then your chance of hitting scum with me is no better than random.

However tho:

The first quote is a bit of a cop out. You basically say 'I only town read, I don't scum read, until I actually do then that's fine, but otherwise I don't do that so trust me I'm town.' You can't make a claim, point to meta then contradict that claim and then wonder why you're being picked up on it.

2. The only answer I have for this it's, just it's a hard habit to break, I could give you a long explanation on it but

You have played wtih me before

, and back when I was a more scumhunting kind of player even tho that was several years ago. You may not remember that game tho.
When i made an alt called Luna Fox I decided to try townhunting instead and I ended up liking it, so I adopted that to my main, and that's how that happened.
Anyway the thing is that, I decided to not hold back on anything this game because I felt that sometimes I was letting myself be held back by my own fears of expressing my own opinions on things, and I guess as a result part of my playstyle that is scumhunting has resurfaced without me even realizing it. I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing tho.

1. Let me put it to you this way. Telling people how you should read them is directing them in how to make their decision on your alignment. That's inherently a move which requires we trust you on your word, and in mafia that is an unwise move. Are you seeing what I'm trying to say?

2. It's your habit. But other people are not in your head and don't know what you know. We're here to observe you and determine that for ourselves. So you can justify it in any way you want but it requires me to trust you and, frankly, in a game where misplaced trust can get egg on your face, I'm reluctant to allow that to happen without good reason. Why should I trust you on what your meta is?

I checked fungi, they were town. So what are you actually trying to say here?!

What? I was scum in Fungi mafia.

... yeah, ok, I checked it and thought I saw you as scum. My bad.

Can you just sum up why you vote me? I absolutely detest responding point by point walls of text.

How you've bounced around in the game, and how you've acted in sync with Sakura, and your chainsaw of FB.

Again, not 100% sold but the behaviour isn't right and presents at this time as scum.

Becuase you're also assuming that I brought my meta to be townread, when my intention was to tell people that me not scumhunting is NAI for me.

Don't you think that town SHOULD scumhunt though? And if so why don't you want to help town? Is it lack of confidence?

Technically I do tho?
Townhunting is basically find town, and then PoE scum.

But yeah, I mean i found that my scum hit ratio was larger when I townhunt and my getting mislynched ratio was lower.

It's not your style I have a problem with or your methods. It's the inconsistency you've applied in this game with those methods, and your suggestion that you're consistent to what you've been doing as town, when you actually haven't. Can you see my point?

It's a big fat wall. Trump wishes he could build what I built.

Spoiler:

...

Norwegian, thoughts on this Jester talk? What do you think should be done if there is a Jester?

I think jester talk is fine because it can be used to see who's got a scummy mindset or not. But i'm pretty sure it's just a fake claim so i don't personally care much about it. I don't believe this game actually has a jester.

...

This game does have way too many inactive players right now.

@Drew-Sta
@CooLDoG
@Blurryface3189
@Persivul

So, Looking at the mod's confirmation post, there's 1 player that hasn't confirmed yet.
Persivul is V/LA according to his profile so that could easily be the cause of him not posting. (Although an ego search turns out he's at least posting on his other games, V/LA supposed to end today so I hope we hear from him)
CD hasn't been on site for 2 days, could be the person that hasnt confirmed.
Looking at Blurry's site activity seems to be someone that posts once every blue moon.
Same with Drew.

Looks like we just got some people that just arent active in general. I don't think we can discern alignment from activity alone.

These two posts in tandem appear to be attempts to get attention off currently posting players and into the dark. Which is moving from difficult to lynch players and on to unable to be defended targets.

The decision to move there when neither of these players have formed strong scum reads they've advertised, plus the fact that they seem unwilling to push a wagon, suggests they're more comfortable with moving something on a player that is not posting, as they will struggle to defend themselves and if lynched, it is easy to absolve responsibility of their actions.
...

I'm not sure i want to trust Firebringer anymore. Because their read on Sakura makes no sense. Why are they so obvtown bruh?
VOTE: Firebringer

FB's argument was very clear, actually. Your distrust of it seems fishy. I'm not one to white knight, FB could be scum. But your argument around it seems odd.

It's like you want to get rid of them.

Also i'd like Sakura/Quick to actually explain why they tr FB, because that shit makes little sense to me right now.

quick scumreads me dude.

Not hard enough.

This appears to be a scummy, lazy tactic. You're throwing shit at someone and misrepresenting another players view to push your own.

I consider this a tell.

Also, it's a minor take considering half the game is dead. But all of the wagons seen so far have been god-awful. Can we please get a good and decent one going on FB for the sake of my sanity. Tnx.

Including your own?

I'm not sure i want to trust Firebringer anymore. Because their read on Sakura makes no sense. Why are they so obvtown bruh?
VOTE: Firebringer

its the fact that i don't think ur trying to manipulate me in anyway. i think and this is just a theory (and u might try it next time ur scum) u would more or less use me as a foundation to get ur placeholder/foot in the game by locking me in for ur read and then maneuver from there. I think ur playing this without that when the easy option of manipulating me exists and I think even if ur going for a more serious game u would still try to manipulate me in some way.

I'm considering the fact that you've TR NPOM, Quick and now Sakura. I'm not seeing how this game makes sense if all scum are in lurkers. Are you just trying to pocket most of the active players? And what's this "they would manipulate me if i was scum" BS? How do you know that would be scum!Sakura's play here?

You're too fluffy and pockety compared to our last game FB. There's a pretty big difference.

In Fungi Mafia FB was actually lightly scum hunting, also picking a couple few TR's. Not handing them out like candy. Also, even though he always jokes. It was intertwined with actual solving. Here he just doesn't seem to care. As evidenced by wagoning either for some personal BS reason that has nothing to do with the game, or encouraging a wagon a dude that hasn't even posted FFS.
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p11828723

doesn't seem like a lazy scum norwe push

This makes me second guess my view on norwe, but I also think it's a case of nor pushing to get something started on someone.

fungi mafia cliff notes of Norwee:
--> Sometimes gave some insight to players usually mild mannered. Usually only gave long cases for why he thought a player was town.
--> Doesn't try to take control of game or lead. Perfectly willing to take a back seat.
--> Passiveness

Ur scumcase on me doesn't match this.

Yeah, im comfortable with u in my townreads.

Disagree. This isn't what they're doing here IMHO.

Number 1 and 2 don't correlate with their existing behaviour in this game. I checked fungi, they were town. So what are you actually trying to say here?!

I'll come back to 622.

Also i'd like Sakura/Quick to actually explain why they tr FB, because that shit makes little sense to me right now.

Firebringer is an old friend and knows all my weaknesses and It hasnt felt like he's trying to exploit them, a scum!FB would have

probably

TR me much earlier considering I got into the game from the get go and would've been pretty easy to call me TR due to meta and I would be none the wiser. His explanation on his TR of me matches his play around me and so I figured he's probably town.

You're too fluffy and pockety compared to our last game FB. There's a pretty big difference.

Our last game he was pretty obsessed with me, but, I feel he was MORE fluffy on fungi mafia.

Basically my feeling also comes from the fact that Firebringer is a pretty strong player, he is perfectly capable of playing normally,

but where's the fun in that

, and getting himself townread in the process. Considering he's just being fluffy he's just having fun, and being in an environment of people that arent very familiar with him

to my knowledge

he'd have a much easier time just playing normally and getting townread as scum, than whatever he's doing right now, it feels kind of anti-scum, if you know what i mean.

There's a non zero chance he's playing this way in order to pocket specific people

including me

, and you're free to point and laugh at me if he flips scum, but at this point I don't think he's doing anything to advance any specific agenda.

That's buddying to get them in your pocket.

Oh and talking reads, I do agree that now this is more similar to the town norwegian than the scum norwegian i've seen. So norwegian can go into the town bin too.

You and Nor sit at opposite ends of the spectrum on FB, which IMHO is of interest given the links I've drawn to you both.

I don’t think FB flipping scum would equate Sakura scum based on FB’s play around the slot.

And that right there is an interesting post. Basically absolving Sakura from being mafia if FB flips scum. Why would you do that? How do you have any certainty that is the case?! It's a post of certainty, and I cannot understand how you can be so certain about them.

651/post], [post]653, 660, 664, 666, 683 I'll come back to later as there's a lot to analyse in there for me.

Porkens vote in 696 is odd.

Drew has been lacking too. He came, he left. And everyone forgot im.

Now you touch on me again. And not in the 'sexy Norwegian chick' kind of way.

You seem to like to shift focus at times when focus is on you.
...
Porkens appears to be trying to trap people but not sure if that's scum hunting or trying to get townies lynched by their own rope.

Tl:dr - I think Nor, Sakura appear to be scum at this point. I think we need to wait for Farken and Pers to contribute before we can proceed much further.

VOTE: NorwegianboyEE

Pages 28-32 are odd and I need to go review again. CoolDog's entrance changed the games dynamic a bit. I have to sift through what they've posted better as my initial thoughts are it didn't read right in placed and also read very well in others.

This is the shortest version I can compile. Not sure if Drew-Sta would approve of this.

Eh, do what you need. Just don't misrepresent me.

Anyway.

One thing i do not understand is why people think that I self-meta with the purpose of getting townread.
If there I was using self-meta for the purpose of getting townread It would mean that I'm purposefully and knowingly using a towntell that I know I only use as town and that would be a trust tell.

I self meta to avoid getting scumread for things that are NAI in my case.
Anything else is fair game.

If there are things that I only do as town and know them, I'll do them in my scum games.
If there are things that I only do as town and dont know them then they are a viable way to meta read me via towntells. But then I wouldnt self-meta about them since I'm unaware of them.

Now that you know, can we please drop this self-meta from talk from like pages ago, and read me on the rest of my play.
Thanks.

Any further inquiries or scumreads based on me "not scumhunting" (even tho i ended up doing it) will be ignored and idc anymore at this point to correct people coz it's getting tiring to repeat it.

You've just argued the use of meta against you is wrong, then clarified your meta, now asked everyone to stop using meta against you - despite you being the one who brought it into question in the first place - and are now going to ignore any use of meta mentioned with you.

Now, I don't really give a shit about meta. I think it's a useless frame of reference. But please, you're the one who brought it up. And you're also being inconsistent to what you've actually argued. Can you acknowledge now that this looks at least odd?

So from glancing, most of the arguments on me just aren’t very good...? That’s twice now i’ve gotten dumped a bunch of musings and lazy detective work regarding my usage of hyperboles.
What’s your best argument in favour of scum!me from your POV Drew?

See above.

I'm not 100% convinced but I think it's a worthwhile vote at the moment.

[Drew-Sta]

I'm not sure i want to trust Firebringer anymore. Because their read on Sakura makes no sense. Why are they so obvtown bruh?
VOTE: Firebringer

^^ That's a chainsaw. And the posts that follow. So yes, you did do it.

[Drew-Sta]

i seriously eyeroll anytime a boomer tells me "OHH META CAN BE MANIPULATED" like of course u fucking moron. the idea is to finding the nuances the player isn't aware of or has a hard time changing and using that to inform you of the player. Not this revolutionary idea. But boomers can't adjust because they tried using meta once or twice realize "ohh shit people changed I can't use this anymore" and then went "ohh well meta is trash" instead "Ohh this meta is outdated I need to readjusted".

I don't think this is a problem only boomers have.

Anyone who shouts meta is trash and talks like that is a boomer for all i am concerned.

Boomer = Anyone who doesn't know how to adapt.

Which is the same as throwing away meta because you failed at once or twice. I am not even one of those who says "meta is god", I prefer using it as a tool of understanding the fundamentals of a player to rule out things I shouldn't consider alignment indicative. Understand the baseline of a player and then when players deviate you can dig deeper.

I’m not a boomer?

I don’t use meta as a primary source to inform my read on a player. Why is that so fucking horrible? Honestly, you read like Kermit D Frog flailing because someone disagrees with your worldview.

@Firebringer
Did i chainsaw?

unless ur ally is persivul. I don't see how u could have.

The general form of this tell is "a player who defends another player by attacking the other player's attacker is very probably scum".

You defending Sakura by attacking FB is what you did. That’s why I called it a chainsaw. Whether I’ve used the correct term or not is besides the point - I was identifying your behaviour.

They're very intent on knowing where people sit with them, and then get defensive when people push at them.

None of this means anything. Plenty of people like to focus on what others reads are on them. For instance i got a read of Norwee based on his read on me.

You have no problem with someone sheeping views? That’s fine. But I do. Because following people especially if it leads to a mislynch is a way to absolve yourself of the poor lynch and then turn on the lead mislynch.

@Drew I read ur whole post and it almost seems liek ur theory on Norwee scum is directly related to Sakura being scum. You made many more points on Sakura being scum than Norwee. So why are u pushing Norwee? Is it because more people willing to lynch Norwee?

I picked one of the two. Put simply. I’m not saying I’m right but I formed a view and I’m willing to see where it goes. Doesn’t mean I won’t change. But we all begin somewhere.

Ohhh i think i finally get it.
So Drew's got it in his head that Sakura is scum, and they view my supposed "defense" of Sakura by attacking FB as a indirect defense of Sakura. Even though i was actually attacking FB because i saw their TR of Sakura as a pocketing attempt. So they either misunderstood or misrepresented my post to suit this narrative. Am i right?

Read what you said and align it with why I’m saying that’s scummy behaviour.

I’ve lost some quotes somewhere, so I’ll go find them.

[Drew-Sta]

just tell people who continue to say "meta is trash" that they are trash.

seriously all the oldies who shout meta = bad don't even understand how to use it because they are fucking boomers.

i seriously eyeroll anytime a boomer tells me "OHH META CAN BE MANIPULATED" like of course u fucking moron. the idea is to finding the nuances the player isn't aware of or has a hard time changing and using that to inform you of the player. Not this revolutionary idea. But boomers can't adjust because they tried using meta once or twice realize "ohh shit people changed I can't use this anymore" and then went "ohh well meta is trash" instead "Ohh this meta is outdated I need to readjusted".

I’m not a boomer. Don’t be a disrespectful dick.

I don’t use meta and I feel it is problematic but I don’t criticise people for using it. I simply pick apart the clear issues when they present.

[Drew-Sta]

i don't think his reads make sense with what he has posted. His posts look more like he is trying to look like he is doing something.

Some do, some don’t.

His post and vote on me is thoughtful, despite being wrong.

[Drew-Sta]

Did you kids just spend several pages arguing with Sakura regarding their self-meta defense, right after saying that meta doesn't matter and that reading through meta is not alignment indicative since everybody does it?

No, I said they weren’t consistent with their own arguments.

[Drew-Sta]

i don't think its possible me playing mafia and not being a disrespectful prick....

can such a thing be done?

I’m fine with people being arseholes. If I cared enough I’d probably be one in this game but I’m backed up at work so don’t have the energy. You just seem tetchy that people are calling you out. /shrugs

I don’t use meta as a primary source to inform my read on a player. Why is that so fucking horrible? Honestly, you read like Kermit D Frog flailing because someone disagrees with your worldview.

honestly i wasn't even talking to u buddy or fredrick.

i was talking about people calling meta trash in general sense. If u fall into that group. Then sure, take that rant at urself personally or something idc.

It sure seemed directed at me and others.

Disrespectful? Criticism isn't disrespectful. Calling people names is.

if i wanted to call people names i would direct them right at them. I think u and drew got way to defensive of my rant on meta haters and decided u belonged to the group and my rant was at u guys. Which is like ???? since both of u decided to also distance urself from the group i labelled but also felt marginalized by me.

I got defensive? You’re the one with a stick in your arse as a consequence of what I’ve said.

You’re really behaving wildly. I don’t follow you.

Why r u mad at Firebringer now Drew? I've been much more disrespectful. And i relish in it.

I’m not..? If I was mad it would be pretty clear.

[Drew-Sta]

I just read the last 8 or so pages and my brain completely died. So can someone actually summarize the whole Drew-Sta VS Norwegian or Sakura or CoolDoG or whatever is going on here? What's with the wagon on Porkens, can I find actual reasons here?

I formed an argument against Sakura and Nor, and it seems to have caused angst.

[Drew-Sta]

Nice. Three votes in quick succession. FB doesn’t like me, Nor picks up his argument (an elongated OMGUS) and straight away we’re off to a mislynch.

Nor, why do you think my argument doesn’t come from a town perspective?

[Drew-Sta]

Spoiler: Wall

It's a big fat wall. Trump wishes he could build what I built.

Spoiler:

If someone does something scummy on the first page, it's still scummy. Wanting to lynch a claimed jester because we may not find other scum is scummy. Why not just find scum?

I agree with this.

That's such a weird way of looking at it: I am proposing we lynch him in case we have no other reads, I'd rather mislynch a Jester than deal with a headache claiming to be a Jester the entire game, especially if we have no better leads. But I am not adverse to lynching someone else if we have to, I guess.

It's also instaloss coz no one would lynch the Jester and the Jester wouldnt lynch scum.

I disagree jester is still town

Lynching negative utility is low-hanging fruit in my opinion

They are a voting member of the town.

I know it's early but entertaining the Jester discussion is bizarre. 87 is the most strange I've seen in a while too.

Norwegian, thoughts on this Jester talk? What do you think should be done if there is a Jester?

I think jester talk is fine because it can be used to see who's got a scummy mindset or not. But i'm pretty sure it's just a fake claim so i don't personally care much about it. I don't believe this game actually has a jester.

How..? It's the definition of WIFOM.

I am Town reading quick.

I am scum reading Mohab. Scummy is as scummy does.

The views without justification get my attention here.

I claim vanilla town let's get on with Mohab.

This is oddball. VI or something...

Because there are other fish to fry.

And this is actually very silly.

Also I doubt any scum would've fallen for that, specially if at least one of their teammates is paying attention.

Speculating on scum's reaction to a reaction test is WIFOM.

What does it matter anyway? You're giving scum the opportunity to hide from you by describing how they would or wouldn't act? Or you're explaining away what is scum behaviour vs town behaviour? This comment is fishy.

NPOM looks like LHF to me right now.

Why?

If you believe his claim why does that not qualify as LHF for you.

Lynching a claimed townie is not LHF. It's easy NK, but not LHF.

There's WIFOM on what happens if he survives to D2 as well. Maybe then they become LHF, but not D1.

From my PoV, he does look scummy in a town way, that makes people just want to lynch him, but he's not even trying to accomplish any goal, and seems to believe he's found scum in Mohab and isnt convincing anyone either, plus it's weird to claim VT right then and there if he was scum, which makes him look like LHF for me. Because people want to lynch him for it.

You can't look scummy in a town way. You're either town acting suspiciously or not. Secondly, your emphasis on him being LHF is odd. Why are you guarding him?

My hot take is that Sakura, despite being second highest in activity, has not scumhunted at all.

I agree.

Oh hey, that's 2 soft shades already, any more takers?

You're very defensive at the slightest attention on you.

My hot take is that Sakura, despite being second highest in activity, has not scumhunted at all.

How very observant of you.

This is the sort of thing I consider for SvS, FTR.

Why?

This:

Wifom much?

There's WIFOM and there's things that make no sense.
So either I'm scum imitating my town game of townhunting over scumhunting, or I'm town.
No matter how much you ask me to hunt for scum in the "normal" way, That's not how I like to play, if you think that's scummy of me then sure go ahead and lynch me, that wont change how I play because I dont have fun playing that way.

... contradicts this:

Cool

Scumminess noted.

So I ask you, if I were scum why wouldnt I at least pretend to scumhunt?

Can I ask why?

And as a bonus, everything i've said about my meta and my personality is something you can research yourself, this isnt the first time I've been pushed for "not scumhunting" and i bet it wont be the last.

You seem to be doing a very hard job of townreading yourself for others sake. The continued push for people to meta you:

And as a bonus, everything i've said about my meta and my personality is something you can research yourself, this isnt the first time I've been pushed for "not scumhunting" and i bet it wont be the last.

... feels like 'Look! Look at it all! I'm town gais - I promise'. Then you turn around and do this:

You also said this based off a reply norwegian did to a post Quick made towards me:

Deflection. (Partner?)

Partner here seems to imply you think im scum and norwegian is my partner.
Am i wrong in that assumption?

... which is scum hunting.

Past few pages have been lots of bickering between NPOM and Sakura, with firebringer and Fredrick finally joining in. firebringer throws (personal) shade at Porkens and wants us to figure out who's the one person he's townreading, while Fredrick just has a lot of inquisitive questions regarding everyone else's reads (but hasn't actually posted any of his?).

Regarding NPOM and Sakura, the chatter was mostly useless, but I did get a strong feeling it was either TvT or SvT, I think a scum-coordinated argument like that would look a lot more doctored/polished if you get me? Not much else to point out regarding those two, will look in more specifics later and try to give a better read.

Fredrick and firebringers action strike some mild scum vibes here. Regarding Fredrick, their curious nature kind of invites me to think they're scum who wants people to feel they're participating without actually doing anything. firebringer's first few posts and shading at Porkens might just be scum wanting to mislynch with an excuse, though I would probably have to look at the meta's of the players to make more accurate reads, I think.

Tell me why a scum argument would be more coordinated or polished if they don't have daytalk (normal doesn't have DT)... This is a fishy statement to make. It's like... fake scum hunting.

Ok I'll let that go by if you promise to play the game normally with everyone else and just ignore Porkens. It'll be impossible to read you otherwise.

This is a strange interaction.

vote:porkens

sakura's point about shading without voting or even FOS is good, and firebringer is probably town.

I consider this sheeping and without good cause. Sits you in a healthy place for the wagon too.

vote:porkens

sakura's point about shading without voting or even FOS is good, and firebringer is probably town.

Why is her point about shading good?

shading people without calling them scummy or voting them does nothing except increase distrust between the town members. the fact that you even said "i never called you scum" after the shading is also very bad.

... that's, not what he did? I don't even think Porkens threw shade..? He critically analysed two posts that didn't fit together, and then laughed at it after, and then you come in a chainsaw? The claim Porkens made about them being active lurking is true - they are / were. Sakura having to refer to her meta as some sort of justification for her behavior wasn't actually answering the question but deflecting the issue.

Besides, there's nothing wrong with listening to others opinions.

Well, there is. We just haven't seen whether you're doing it for the right or wrong reason yet. It's an ambiguous decision making process which allows you an easy out.

vote:porkens

sakura's point about shading without voting or even FOS is good, and firebringer is probably town.

Why is her point about shading good?

shading people without calling them scummy or voting them does nothing except increase distrust between the town members. the fact that you even said "i never called you scum" after the shading is also very bad.

I don’t buy this. My “very observant” post about Sakura was scum hunting, and it led to useful discussion Through which we could develop our reads. I factually stated that I did not call her scum. That has no bearing on whether I think she or her actions are scummy. I’m not casting about trying to make people look scummy. I am asking direct questions and stating my thoughts in an effort to further the game state.

Your argument seems disingenuous to me.

Agree, it appeared to be a chainsaw.

why me? besides the fact i am scum

Well, that obviously means we are town.

Double reaction all the way....

Yeah, I saw that too. I can't make up my mind on NPOM.

This game does have way too many inactive players right now.

@Drew-Sta
@CooLDoG
@Blurryface3189
@Persivul

So, Looking at the mod's confirmation post, there's 1 player that hasn't confirmed yet.
Persivul is V/LA according to his profile so that could easily be the cause of him not posting. (Although an ego search turns out he's at least posting on his other games, V/LA supposed to end today so I hope we hear from him)
CD hasn't been on site for 2 days, could be the person that hasnt confirmed.
Looking at Blurry's site activity seems to be someone that posts once every blue moon.
Same with Drew.

Looks like we just got some people that just arent active in general. I don't think we can discern alignment from activity alone.

These two posts in tandem appear to be attempts to get attention off currently posting players and into the dark. Which is moving from difficult to lynch players and on to unable to be defended targets.

The decision to move there when neither of these players have formed strong scum reads they've advertised, plus the fact that they seem unwilling to push a wagon, suggests they're more comfortable with moving something on a player that is not posting, as they will struggle to defend themselves and if lynched, it is easy to absolve responsibility of their actions.

But why post once and then not post for several days? You are just asking to be scumread.

You sheep and then scum read but not really form any argument for it. It's proving difficult to defend your actions.

Nor pokes me at 416, then Sakura takes up the lead in 436 and Nor doesn't prod me again. This seems odd. Especially since both were the ones pushing for non-posters as possible suspects. The fact they didn't acknowledge each others posts on that either, plus what I've just said, appears to be distancing.

450 and 452 Nor reengages but doesn't push me at all. Sakura then drops off at 470.

So they either town read me now or don't care about the non-posters? I'm not following the behaviour at all.

i have legitimate strong townread on sakura now.

I'm curious when and why did u get this strong townread of me, I thought you'd have been able to get this way earlier than when you expressed it, but only now u get a legitimate one.

its the fact that i don't think ur trying to manipulate me in anyway. i think and this is just a theory (and u might try it next time ur scum) u would more or less use me as a foundation to get ur placeholder/foot in the game by locking me in for ur read and then maneuver from there. I think ur playing this without that when the easy option of manipulating me exists and I think even if ur going for a more serious game u would still try to manipulate me in some way.

So i wanted to make sure i didn't see u trying to get me to really townlock u.

This gets my attention from both.

Explaining what would 'allow you to be captured' by someone else via meta and then manipulated, is like... some weird buddying or something. I feel like Sakura's 'not going after someone' here if they have decent understanding of their gameplay to me matches with the whole 'look at my meta, I only town hunt' schtick.

To me it's SvT interaction and I'm leaning to Sakura being scum at this point.

They're very intent on knowing where people sit with them, and then get defensive when people push at them.

K maybe i jumped the gun townreading you and i retract it.

Let's talk about that process? For me, the only thing saving NPOM rn is their claim.

So? A person is either town or scum.
If there's scum motive behind their actions then they are scum regardless of what they claimed.
If what they claimed and how is towny then there's no scum motive behind their actions.

That's WIFOM. Of course intent is important. They're either lying or not. The trick is working out which.

What is the Scum motive for claiming VT? After ~reasons~ which I won't mention?

I think this is a little naive, or defending something that can't be defended e.g. I don't think you can defend a VT claim this early in the game. It's either a tactic or the play of a VI. I think this is one of the few times meta helps - is NPOW a VI? Their previous games can be indicative of this.

Out of the active posters, I would say both FB and NPOM have the best shot at being Scum.

I'll do whatever Fire does.

VOTE: Persivul

This makes me want you to eat lunch.

When you had previously said:

I take back my TR on you. I can see what you are saying, but that's not the impression I get from NPOM's play here. He either genuinely doesn't want a NK on him (which I have been guilty of before, honestly) or he is makes a WEIRD ASS PLAY here as Scum.

For now, I believe his claim.

Of course I don't want to be killed how am I supposed to help the town win?

That's the thing... You are low key saying, "No need to kill me because I am VT, look elsewhere" and that implies you think you are good at this game and can solve without being a PR.

Which looks like you forgot you had a townread on your slot, specially considering i called the slot LHF/Lynchbait and you fought me on it.

Gee, this appears to be scumhunting. But I thought you didn't do that...

...
You guys have collectively spewed 13 odd pages of shit. Suggesting I can get an accurate read in all that mess is optimistic at the least.
...

Considering recent events, one man's shit is another man's treasure.

You can fish through my shit all day long mate.

Scumreading a townplayer(Quick)

You seem so, so certain...

For clarity: How do you know Quick is a townplayer?

He seems engaged and trying to gamesolve.

And I just checked. He never even voted for Quick.

Quick could be scum...something’s making me hesitate though so it’s not strong

To me that's a scumread without saying it's a scumread.

Yeah... no.

I'm not sure i want to trust Firebringer anymore. Because their read on Sakura makes no sense. Why are they so obvtown bruh?
VOTE: Firebringer

FB's argument was very clear, actually. Your distrust of it seems fishy. I'm not one to white knight, FB could be scum. But your argument around it seems odd.

It's like you want to get rid of them.

Also i'd like Sakura/Quick to actually explain why they tr FB, because that shit makes little sense to me right now.

quick scumreads me dude.

Not hard enough.

This appears to be a scummy, lazy tactic. You're throwing shit at someone and misrepresenting another players view to push your own.

I consider this a tell.

Also, it's a minor take considering half the game is dead. But all of the wagons seen so far have been god-awful. Can we please get a good and decent one going on FB for the sake of my sanity. Tnx.

Including your own?

I'm not sure i want to trust Firebringer anymore. Because their read on Sakura makes no sense. Why are they so obvtown bruh?
VOTE: Firebringer

its the fact that i don't think ur trying to manipulate me in anyway. i think and this is just a theory (and u might try it next time ur scum) u would more or less use me as a foundation to get ur placeholder/foot in the game by locking me in for ur read and then maneuver from there. I think ur playing this without that when the easy option of manipulating me exists and I think even if ur going for a more serious game u would still try to manipulate me in some way.

I'm considering the fact that you've TR NPOM, Quick and now Sakura. I'm not seeing how this game makes sense if all scum are in lurkers. Are you just trying to pocket most of the active players? And what's this "they would manipulate me if i was scum" BS? How do you know that would be scum!Sakura's play here?

You're too fluffy and pockety compared to our last game FB. There's a pretty big difference.

In Fungi Mafia FB was actually lightly scum hunting, also picking a couple few TR's. Not handing them out like candy. Also, even though he always jokes. It was intertwined with actual solving. Here he just doesn't seem to care. As evidenced by wagoning either for some personal BS reason that has nothing to do with the game, or encouraging a wagon a dude that hasn't even posted FFS.
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p11828723

doesn't seem like a lazy scum norwe push

This makes me second guess my view on norwe, but I also think it's a case of nor pushing to get something started on someone.

fungi mafia cliff notes of Norwee:
--> Sometimes gave some insight to players usually mild mannered. Usually only gave long cases for why he thought a player was town.
--> Doesn't try to take control of game or lead. Perfectly willing to take a back seat.
--> Passiveness

Ur scumcase on me doesn't match this.

Yeah, im comfortable with u in my townreads.

Disagree. This isn't what they're doing here IMHO.

Number 1 and 2 don't correlate with their existing behaviour in this game. I checked fungi, they were town. So what are you actually trying to say here?!

I'll come back to 622.

Also i'd like Sakura/Quick to actually explain why they tr FB, because that shit makes little sense to me right now.

Firebringer is an old friend and knows all my weaknesses and It hasnt felt like he's trying to exploit them, a scum!FB would have

probably

TR me much earlier considering I got into the game from the get go and would've been pretty easy to call me TR due to meta and I would be none the wiser. His explanation on his TR of me matches his play around me and so I figured he's probably town.

You're too fluffy and pockety compared to our last game FB. There's a pretty big difference.

Our last game he was pretty obsessed with me, but, I feel he was MORE fluffy on fungi mafia.

Basically my feeling also comes from the fact that Firebringer is a pretty strong player, he is perfectly capable of playing normally,

but where's the fun in that

, and getting himself townread in the process. Considering he's just being fluffy he's just having fun, and being in an environment of people that arent very familiar with him

to my knowledge

he'd have a much easier time just playing normally and getting townread as scum, than whatever he's doing right now, it feels kind of anti-scum, if you know what i mean.

There's a non zero chance he's playing this way in order to pocket specific people

including me

, and you're free to point and laugh at me if he flips scum, but at this point I don't think he's doing anything to advance any specific agenda.

That's buddying to get them in your pocket.

Oh and talking reads, I do agree that now this is more similar to the town norwegian than the scum norwegian i've seen. So norwegian can go into the town bin too.

You and Nor sit at opposite ends of the spectrum on FB, which IMHO is of interest given the links I've drawn to you both.

I don’t think FB flipping scum would equate Sakura scum based on FB’s play around the slot.

And that right there is an interesting post. Basically absolving Sakura from being mafia if FB flips scum. Why would you do that? How do you have any certainty that is the case?! It's a post of certainty, and I cannot understand how you can be so certain about them.

651/post], [post]653, 660, 664, 666, 683 I'll come back to later as there's a lot to analyse in there for me.

Porkens vote in 696 is odd.

Drew has been lacking too. He came, he left. And everyone forgot im.

Now you touch on me again. And not in the 'sexy Norwegian chick' kind of way.

You seem to like to shift focus at times when focus is on you.

More votes on the pig please.

Why?

Scumreading a townplayer(Quick)

For clarity: How do you know Quick is a townplayer?

He seems engaged and trying to gamesolve.

And I just checked. He never even voted for Quick.

Quick could be scum...something’s making me hesitate though so it’s not strong

To me that's a scumread without saying it's a scumread.

So, NoPowerOverMe, you want(ed) more votes on Porkens because he is/was scumreading Quick, whom you assert is a town player. Is that an accurate representation of your thoughts?

This is accurate, but I think you're floating up the wrong shit show mate.

Porkens appears to be trying to trap people but not sure if that's scum hunting or trying to get townies lynched by their own rope.

Tl:dr - I think Nor, Sakura appear to be scum at this point. I think we need to wait for Farken and Pers to contribute before we can proceed much further.

VOTE: NorwegianboyEE

Pages 28-32 are odd and I need to go review again. CoolDog's entrance changed the games dynamic a bit. I have to sift through what they've posted better as my initial thoughts are it didn't read right in placed and also read very well in others.

You didn't even talk about Norwegian in this "wall" and it's not even like you are making a case or anything. -100 Town points.

That’s a complete misrep. Go back and reread it, because I’ve quoted and discussed Nor at least a half dozen times.

[Drew-Sta]

VOTE: Drew-sta
Does anyone townread him?

Yes, let’s fish for a consensus in a mislynch.

[Drew-Sta]

This is madness.

I'll claim at L-1 if you need.

I am literally in back to back meetings from now until 12pm my time (which is effectively four and a half hours).

You idiots haven't even formed a decent argument and half a dozen of you jumped on. Fark me...

[Drew-Sta]

u could always ask me questions

That's true. Unfortunately, I have no idea what I could possibly ask that will help me determine your alignment.

at least u didn't ask me if i was town. I would have had to say no, otherwise my honesty streak ends.

Since you've been claiming to be scum, I'll just treat you as such.

VOTE: Firebringer

L-3

this post
is a very scummy post
can't blame me
he told us to

... except he's done that all game?

You sure like saying the word "mislynch" a lot.
Like i think it's pretty obvious that my stance on your case about me and Sakura is that i think it's hot garbage, but sure. Keep framing it as OMGUS. See how far it will take you.

I use the word mislynch because it's clear that is what is happening. Secondly, there is truth in my statement of OMGUS because you have, so far, not engaged with my argument at all. Right or wrong - you haven't actually engaged. You simply keep spewing.

You kept using the word "chainsaw" like it would absolve you from any responsibility. But your main argument against me didn't even make sense. Yet you kept pushing. Just makes me believe your entire case was made in bad faith and you never intended to solve or attempt to do anything other than scumread me.

Why doesn't it make sense?! Show me why. I'm a reasonable guy. I'll change my view and adjust if proven wrong. The case wasn't made in bad faith - it was simply formed from a read of the game.

Thirdly, I used chainsaw because it described what you did. Why is that unfair? It doesn't absolve me of responsibility at all - where have I ever said that?

That’s a complete misrep. Go back and reread it, because I’ve quoted and discussed Nor at least a half dozen times.

yeah, maybe you want to talk about AI stuff instead of whatever this is about Norwegian cuz he's Town. laziness isn't a Scum tell,"Basically absolving Sakura from being mafia if FB flips scum. Why would you do that?" why NOT do that? Seems pretty Townie to point that out actually because I actually think the exact same thing irt what Norwegian is saying about Sakura/Fire. In fact, that last thing is probably one of the Towniest things said itt and you are SRing them for it???

You think he's town, that's fine. I don't. I feel like the way he's reacting to this case is amazingly hostile and defensive. Why?!

The AI stuff - isn't that what I'm doing by engaging with you guys on who I believe is mafia and why?

I re-ISOed quick in light of the recent comments. There are some bits of progress in there, i guess i don't particularly like his playstyle and approach to scumhunting. I may let him live for today.

I also reread Drewsta and i am happier with my vote there. The ISO seems to be a load of questions without conclusions, his only scumread appears to be Norwegianboy which is meh at this point in the game, even i formed some factionality in my reads by being here less than 24 hours. I am known to form reads quickly, but even then there must be some middle ground.

This is lazy reasoning, mate.

[Drew-Sta]

ok i just sat down wiht a big tub of hagen daz and reread the thing
im gonna post some reads


Quick - town
NorwegianboyEE - town
corndog- town

frederik - i hated a lot of the questions he was asking early, seemed like he wasn't going anywhere. but

u could always ask me questions

That's true. Unfortunately, I have no idea what I could possibly ask that will help me determine your alignment.

at least u didn't ask me if i was town. I would have had to say no, otherwise my honesty streak ends.

Since you've been claiming to be scum, I'll just treat you as such.

VOTE: Firebringer

L-3

this post right here was my exact reaction to firebringer claiming scum last game, so i have no choice but to TR.
farkran - i disagree with his readlist. out of CD and farkran definitely the poorer catchup.
NoPowerOverMe - null. i cant tell the difference between noob and scum will have to attempt another time.
Sakura Hana - null, play is very different from the widely townread play i know from luna fox town, cant get a handle on this
Persivul - ???? where is this dude
Porkens - null- his shading was scummy. i dont care if he tries to explain it after the fact or whatever, it was scummy behaviour. his one sentence posts are kinda unreadable, and he makes a lot of grand statements with little evidence backing them up, which is maybe NAI. there are bigger scumreads for me now, i also think the last post he made was actually quite good.

Mohab500 - scummy whole lotta nothing early, i dont like the constant faking of L-1,L-2 as if its gonna catch anyone out, felt almost like scum looking busy, or PR baiting. made one reads post that wasn't AWFUL, tho some of the reads made no sense (drew the main one), hasn't done any scumhunting before or since that readpost. she straight coasted before the big reads post, and has continued to coast afterwards with no content.
like here's mohabs reason for scumreading firebringer

I don't really like this slot, it feels like they're just distracting everyone from gamesolving rather than trying to gamesolve themselves. Their wagon attempts don't make much sense if at all. They seem like they're trying to buddy all the active players as someone else said. I think there is a probable scum here.

HOW IS THAT NOT JUST LIKE WHAT YOU YOURSELF HAD BEEN DOING UP TO THAT POINT. FUCKING AROUND, BANTERING, CERTAINLY NOT SCUMHUNTING. i think hypocrisy is a strong scumtell.

Did you kids just spend several pages arguing with Sakura regarding their self-meta defense, right after saying that meta doesn't matter and that reading through meta is not alignment indicative since everybody does it?

I just read the last 8 or so pages and my brain completely died. So can someone actually summarize the whole Drew-Sta VS Norwegian or Sakura or CoolDoG or whatever is going on here? What's with the wagon on Porkens, can I find actual reasons here?

You're all fucking weird.

porkens post on scum not enjoying reading the game is very relevant here.
Drew-Sta - scum

I don’t like random voting. Just not my schtick.

its always fun when you catch someone in a bold faced lie
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p11762230
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... 3#p6046883
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... 0#p6037760
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... 3#p5855613
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... 9#p5955059
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... 0#p5941620

it seems in other games that you DO like random voting, and it IS in fact your shtick. so whats the deal?

Answer me this - why the scrutiny on me, and will you do the same to the other late posters?

this attitude creeps up a lot in drew-sta's posts. "why focus on me for lurking, its not fair, others are lurking just as much". that is a scum mentality. lurking town at least understand when they are singled out. and chainsaw is a meaningless buzzword 90% of the time, but especially so WHEN WE DONT HAVE ANY GODDAMN FLIPS TO WORK OFF.

vote:drewsta

You spend all your time on Mohab and Fred, then turn on me?

Secondly, I said I didn't like it, not that I hadn't done it. That there is a blatant misrep.

You idiots haven't even formed a decent argument...

Pot meets kettle.

Mafia called. They want you back as MVP.

Because the porkins wagon at least has decent reasoning and the Drew wagon has none

Exactly.

[Drew-Sta]

FB doesn’t like me

i am pretty neutral on u as a person. But ur perspectives do seem more scum than town to me right now.

I think that was what I was trying to say but misstepped.

Please, let's talk about your view of my perspective. Engage with me.

This wagon is madness. Surely you can see that. L-2 in a heartbeat. You must be pinging that scum is on this.

[Drew-Sta]

this attitude creeps up a lot in drew-sta's posts. "why focus on me for lurking, its not fair, others are lurking just as much". that is a scum mentality. lurking town at least understand when they are singled out. and chainsaw is a meaningless buzzword 90% of the time, but especially so WHEN WE DONT HAVE ANY GODDAMN FLIPS TO WORK OFF.

I didn't cover this off well.

My questioning of hitting lurkers is lurkers are LHF, and easy to get lynched in comparison to high posters.

The chainsaw was me describing a behaviour and is not meaningless when we don't have flips - it's not dependent on flips AFAIK.

[Drew-Sta]

i don't really think a wagon speed equals scum pushed? Scum don't just decide to jump people unless its to win the game usually.

I think it shows most people don't agree with u right now.

Sure. So let's lynch the guy we disagree with - that makes sense.

Excuse the sarcasm but can you see how frustrating that is? Basically divergent views being scorned and pushed aside is a great way to blend scum with town core.

I tend to disagree with speed to wagon. Scum want to get to night. VC's are always scruitinised down the track.

[Drew-Sta]

i don't really think a wagon speed equals scum pushed? Scum don't just decide to jump people unless its to win the game usually.

I think it shows most people don't agree with u right now.

Sure. So let's lynch the guy we disagree with - that makes sense.

Excuse the sarcasm but can you see how frustrating that is? Basically divergent views being scorned and pushed aside is a great way to blend scum with town core.

I tend to disagree with speed to wagon. Scum want to get to night. VC's are always scruitinised down the track.

Umm yeah. I can see it being frustrating. But I don't see you actually engaging with people in way to develop ur positions. U just post ur positions and then argue how ur right. Frankly i think ur being kind of annoying to engage with as a player.

At this point I've basically been written off and effectively attacked as a 'boomer' by you, so I find your statement that I'm annoying quite ironic.

I'm happy to engage with people but what is there to engage with? People just tell me I'm wrong.

i don't really think a wagon speed equals scum pushed? Scum don't just decide to jump people unless its to win the game usually.

I think it shows most people don't agree with u right now.

Sure. So let's lynch the guy we disagree with - that makes sense.

Excuse the sarcasm but can you see how frustrating that is? Basically divergent views being scorned and pushed aside is a great way to blend scum with town core.

I tend to disagree with speed to wagon. Scum want to get to night. VC's are always scruitinised down the track.

Please scrutinize your wagon, because so far you've only been defending yourself.

Who's scum on your wagon?

Nor reads scum to me. The fact FB is hammering me but not on my vote has got me pinging.

[Drew-Sta]

Nor reads scum by how irate he was in attacking me, and the fact he seemed to get consensus for his vote. I'll quote the one I find quite telling.

[Drew-Sta]

VOTE: Drew-sta
Does anyone townread him?

This ^^

To me, why does it matter if anyone townreads me? If he declares me as scum, isn't that what matters?

[Drew-Sta]

At this point I've basically been written off and effectively attacked as a 'boomer' by you, so I find your statement that I'm annoying quite ironic.

im the most annoying player u will meet mate.

So my appeal to irony is accurate then.

IDGAF if you're annoying or not. It's what you're doing that matters.

[Drew-Sta]

Wow. Me is scum. Epic read.
And now you say FB too? The guy i was supposedly chainsawing? Are we on team now? Git outta here.

lol

i kind of think drew is town now tbh lol. As much as people say "flailing" is a scum tell. Kind of think this is

town flailing

.

I prefer ordered swinging of hands.

[Drew-Sta]

At this point I've basically been written off and effectively attacked as a 'boomer' by you, so I find your statement that I'm annoying quite ironic.

im the most annoying player u will meet mate.

So my appeal to irony is accurate then.

IDGAF if you're annoying or not. It's what you're doing that matters.

i don't understand ur point. what am i doing that matters right now? attacking u or something?

It was in reference to you being annoying. I was saying I don't care if you are - what I care about is what you're saying in the game. e.g. are you working toward towns best interests or not? That's all.

i remember drew misremembered fungi mafia of norwee being scum (he thought it was town) he agreed with my points about how norwee isn't playing like he is there, but said that made him scum since he was town there. Then when corrected of the misconception that norwee was town. Did absolutely nothing about his now inconsistency of his read on norwee.

SO DREW. WHY IS NORWEE SCUM!?!?!

Ok, I literally am in a meeting. So ISO is impossible for me, but I will do it. Give me the chance to go through him again. Like I've said, I might be wrong, but at least give me the chance to make a case.

Secondly, I said I didn't like it, not that I hadn't done it. That there is a blatant misrep.

it's not a misrep, you said

I don’t like random voting. Just not my schtick.

and i pointed out a large number of games where you random vote early. it was a throwaway phrase meant to justify you not having to take an RVS stance, except it was a total lie.

I don't know what to say. I personally don't like to RVS. The fact I have - I can't deny. If that's what you're going to lynch me over, then go ahead.

[Drew-Sta]

I checked fungi, they were town. So what are you actually trying to say here?!

Ah no, you're right, it was drew.

Yeah, I got that wrong. That was an error on my part.

I have been called Derp-Sta before on another site...

[Drew-Sta]

Farkran - I'm L-2. Why should I claim?

[Drew-Sta]

Farkran - I'm L-2. Why should I claim?

Because claiming isn't the mother of all sins. You are being wagoned, this wagon must get to somewhere useful or die so we can move on.

You may also talk to me about why norwee is scum though

I disagree. It makes NK's a done deal and doesn't provide insight to town the next day for why a player was killed.

That to me is a very bizarre thing to say and not in towns interests.

By your logic, why not have everyone claim now?

[Drew-Sta]

I feel like we've got a good townblock but the Drew wagon is scummy.

Who do you feel is scum on there?

[Drew-Sta]

You idiots haven't even formed a decent argument...

Pot meets kettle.

UNVOTE:

Actually?

VOTE: Farkran

This makes no sense.

Why Farkran over me? Why the immediate switch?

[Drew-Sta]

Farkran - I'm L-2. Why should I claim?

Because claiming isn't the mother of all sins. You are being wagoned, this wagon must get to somewhere useful or die so we can move on.

You may also talk to me about why norwee is scum though

I disagree. It makes NK's a done deal and doesn't provide insight to town the next day for why a player was killed.

That to me is a very bizarre thing to say and not in towns interests.

By your logic, why not have everyone claim now?

Tbh roughly one month ago i made a post about massclaiming early so i wouldn't be against that, but it's not -always- useful.

Secrets are scum friends, not town's. They can only kill 1 at a time.

Lock a scumread into a claim that he cannot change in later days

I don't see what's bad with that.

There's zero way to confirm it though. If the PR's actually claim, they're NK targets. If they don't, they get lynched for lying if found out.

It's WIFOM madness.

[Drew-Sta]

I didn't read anything, and as far as I was concerned I townread drew, but let's get this party rolling baby!

VOTE: drew

L-1

We're going head first into a mislynch and I sure like it. Let me read drew wagon, if he doesn't get hammered by then and I am not convinced, I'll remove my vote. Just claim first is all please.

[Drew-Sta]

I didn't read anything, and as far as I was concerned I townread drew, but let's get this party rolling baby!

VOTE: drew

L-1

We're going head first into a mislynch and I sure like it. Let me read drew wagon, if he doesn't get hammered by then and I am not convinced, I'll remove my vote. Just claim first is all please.

I feel you dog.

Here's the skinny for all you people who are not quite as sharp as others...

Drew came in acting Scummy on purpose to see who would take. Then he posts a wall which was garbage. But he knew it was garbage, that was the plan. Then he actually starts playing and he gets put at L-1, which is kinda insane IMO.

I appreciate you believing I’m that good a player to formulate such an elaborate reaction test, but the wall I posted (shit or not) was with intent to catch up / comment and also resulted in my read on Nor and Sakura.

I’m out of meetings so starting to re review Nor and Cool.

[Drew-Sta]

All this is from Cooldog at various points. Due to his quoting and my shit skills at posting, I'm just breaking it down.

Spoiler:

Town hunting hurts town in the early days because scum will be inclined to kill the stronger town reads. This leads to less info and harder later days when leads are less clear. Telling everybody essentially "I will not vote for this guy" makes it so that scum can't bandwagon on them, and signals that they should kill that strong read.

^^ commenting on 223 by Sakura

ANNNNND this is why meta is shit. Scum play around their town meta and then town play around their town meta. It means nothing. Meta defense on page 10 is also ridiculous. You are essentially claiming, "hay, at the start of the game I always do this. I did this, ergo I am town". If you ever draw scum you are going to do the exact same thing and make this defense. God, I wish I were a double voter.

^^ commenting on 228

Terrible erratic vote shifting once a wagon starts to fizzle onto the newest wagon that pops. No commitment to the reads that you claim to have.

^^ Commenting on 267 by Sakura.

what the hell is this? I'm honestly perplexed. In the same breath you say you are going to stick on the wagon, and that you want to hop off after a time. Angling for wagons and for claims. No legitmate scum hunting is going on with fire.

^^ commenting on 310 by FB

looking back this is fair. But it is odd that you are defending yourself based off of meta and not your actual in-game actions in themselves.

^^ commenting on 658 by Sakura

This is a chainsaw, correct? There were also some strange interactions earlier between norwegian and sakura and monab.

^^ commenting on the infamous 583 by Nor.

All the above I agree with.

Drew-sta's 465 Not a big fan here. It is basically only defending. No effort has yet been put on him catching scum. He has plenty of time to defend himself, but none to actually catch scum it seems.

465 - Defending takes far less time than scum hunting. At that point in the game I wasn't giving much attention to the game due to weekend.

I have expressed that I have a scum read on you. Mohab only has my vote on him. One vote will not produce as much activity in the game thread or reactions than if I went with another read which I hold to be more or less equal with another vote on them. You have a vote on you, so my voting for you will produce more activity than just leaving it to sit on mohab until other people vote for him... I don't want my vote to just sit there doing nothing.

677 This is scum hunting. I like it. Rightly or wrongly, it's an attempt to generate activity and conversation that will spur insight.

You are voting based upon a sample size of 1 with no counter factual evidence for him being scum.

683 - I agree, actually. Read all of that post. This was also my issue with Nor, but he has articulated it well. He gives a well reasoned argument. Grammar is a little skewy at times but we can't all be Rhodes Scholars.

685 - agree re Mohab

730 - brilliant post. Disects behaviour. Might not be all correct, but insightful and has a stance.

785 - reasons and gives credit to Fire despite thinking Fire is scum. Acknowledges rather than misrepresents.

There's a response to my wall in 1133:

I agree that post 122 is dumb. But you provide no read here. As our master Moazi says, "This is like throwing fire onto fire, and water onto a flood".

I don't necessarily agree that having a read is necessary off one piece of information. I think gathering information is more informative and then processing it at the end. I think in a linear manner, so don't 'read' necessarily as observe, record, then try to deduce. I get what you're saying though.

Do you get a scum read on Sakura from 148 or 165 or 170? Pick one, and only one.

I'm not sure what you're trying to achieve here, but 148 pinged me and 165 / 170 are supporting evidence. So 148 then the other two equally? 170 is presumptive, 165 is identifying something I believe could be seen as a slip - how do they know they're scummy town?! Their intent is to try to see behaviour but they're speaking of something they can't really know, thus, it's quite suspicious.

Also @drew, does Porkins 181 count as scum hunting?

No. Simple observation of their active lurking. It leans town as a behaviour but isn't scum hunting per se. Not in my personal opinion.

On quick's 148, does that make sakura v porkins Town vs Town for you?

No, again. I'd argue Quick is probably right there, but it's a possible coincidence at this stage. If Porkins and Sakura are in Lylo, then I'd argue it's indicative.

496 and 495 you think that either Fire or Sakura are scum, correct?

I think Sakura is scum, yes, although I wouldn't bet firmly yet. I think FB leans there at some point too. FB went after me but never placed a vote. Nor jumped on without hesitation. So did Sakura. I'd argue that's scum movement due to the coordination - all three were 'on me' from an argument perspective. If you think someone is scum, you vote them. The speed of the escalation to L-2 was also of interest. I am always cautious when a lynch moves at light speed like that, especially when players are ripping in but not voting in line with their argument. The bullshit between FB and Sakura early on twigged too. The whole FB reading Sakura town.

So you think Sakura is town due to scum hunting?

No, I was sarcastically highlighting an inconsistency.

Quick's 979 979. Agree. Don't like drew there. Vote from quick is natural. Farken's vote doesn't strike me as odd either.

^^ [post]1210

Err, I do? I like, quoted him nearly a dozen times...

I actually think he's town. He comes in and blasts just about everyone except Pers, who simply hasn't posted yet. If he's scum, he's better than the rest of us and I will gladly celebrate his victory with him.

I think the problem people have with him is his grammar, and also that he comes in and has knocked around a few kids who think they're too cool for school - and they don't like that.

Rock on, CoolDog, rock on.

[Drew-Sta]

A look at out little piggy-pig-pig.

Spoiler:

My hot take is that Sakura, despite being second highest in activity, has not scumhunted at all.

Any other hot takes?

Sure! Read on.

My hot take is that Sakura, despite being second highest in activity, has not scumhunted at all.

How very observant of you.

This is the sort of thing I consider for SvS, FTR.

I can definitely see that.

Oh hey, that's 2 soft shades already, any more takers?

Quite defensive, still not scumhunting.

My hot take is that Sakura, despite being second highest in activity, has not scumhunted at all.

How very observant of you.

This is the sort of thing I consider for SvS, FTR.

That’s interesting. I was classifying them using an entirely different instrument of measurement. Namely the towniness of the slots depend entirely on which one looks the least like a disgusting manpig.

Deflection. (Partner?)

Cool

Scumminess noted.

So I ask you, if I were scum why wouldnt I at least pretend to scumhunt?

Would you?

This appears to be tunnelling.

Cool

Scumminess noted.

So I ask you, if I were scum why wouldnt I at least pretend to scumhunt?

Wifom much?

There's WIFOM and there's things that make no sense.
So either I'm scum imitating my town game of townhunting over scumhunting, or I'm town.
No matter how much you ask me to hunt for scum in the "normal" way, That's not how I like to play, if you think that's scummy of me then sure go ahead and lynch me, that wont change how I play because I dont have fun playing that way.

These don’t jive. First you imply that you would pretend to scumhunt as scum. Then you claim you’d imitate your tow game by town hunting. Why did you make these contradicting statements?

I actually agree with this.

vote:porkens

sakura's point about shading without voting or even FOS is good, and firebringer is probably town.

Why is her point about shading good?

shading people without calling them scummy or voting them does nothing except increase distrust between the town members. the fact that you even said "i never called you scum" after the shading is also very bad.

I don’t buy this. My “very observant” post about Sakura was scum hunting, and it led to useful discussion Through which we could develop our reads. I factually stated that I did not call her scum. That has no bearing on whether I think she or her actions are scummy. I’m not casting about trying to make people look scummy. I am asking direct questions and stating my thoughts in an effort to further the game state.

Your argument seems disingenuous to me.

It wasn't scum hunting. You nudged someone repeatedly for not scum hunting. You gave no evidence or insight to why it might be scum behaviour. At this point, I think you lose credibility by your own standards.

The thing about Pig is he's swapped around a lot with no care for expressing why. There's a couple of different WIFOM reasons:

1. He's town, trying to look suspicious to survive to end game
2. He's not town, and he's just got his cod out swinging in the wind
3. He's town who is not paying attention

The issue I have, which makes me feel a little like 2 is possible, is he hasn't provided any scum reads but I note in 1237 he's asking for a read list, and claims my lack of it is a scum tell, but by his own standards, he'd be scum too. So he's throwing shade.

I tend to find people doing that are not doing it with good intent.

His flip flopping and lack of explanation is his worst behaviour right now.

I'd argue options 2 and 3 are possible.

[Drew-Sta]

I will also go back to do Nor at some point. Been very busy with work and the changing face of the game has meant I'm trying to keep up rather than fall behind.

[Drew-Sta]

VOTE: blurryface

RVS so we'll let it slide.

VOTE: firebringer

Alright. It's Monday morning, I don't have meetings for two hours, and I have coffee.

We're at 32 pages. My reading from 23 to 32 showed Cooldog come into the scene. I think the thing he stated about meta just makes my heart sing so happy about that. Nevertheless there's a few things I am keen to go back and read through so in the process of going 1-32 now.

I will be more active from here on in.

This is scum.

VOTE: drewsta

Solid gold lock

Keys unlock locks

VOTE: unvote

VOTE: norweeganbouee

Don’t worry too much loan. Here, let’s just take a step back to where we were

VOTE: unvote
VOTE: drew

Tsk see yeah I just can’t get on board it’s like your posts are almost town but fall critically short in some way. It’s a real pickle!

I haven’t flopped around I have not yet begun to flop this is a gross exaggeration good night

What was that again? I didn't quite hear you over your pants being on fire.

The intriguing thing on the above is they went after Sakura, as some have said, but he never voted Sakura. I consider that a very strange thing to have happened.

[Drew-Sta]

people need to start making a case and explain reads, that or wagon FB up more or start hopping to Mohab, which I would vote park till I have to change it.

cooldog what is my problem. Psychoanalyze me.

also i have no issue with anyone name calling me.

I'm not a Psycho-anal-cyst. I can tell that you simply do not understand the

truth

of

Being

which is the care structure of always being thrown into your life, falling into what other people think you are, and the projecting who you are onto the future. Wrestle your own authenticity away from what "they think" and be your self dude. Go with the flow.

I'll go have a look at Mohab. I'm not sold on FB yet but they have the capacity to be a strong scum leader.

Would you compromise on Nor if I articulate my case against them better?

[Drew-Sta]

@drew, I think the TV point might be valid. Pork makes short posts and does seem to go after targets. I guess he has flopped around alot. But keep in mind the actual wagons that happend. Look at the VCs in 301 634. There was not a real wagon that gained pressure. I will repeat my point that either scum started the wagons, or are not eager to run up a wagon at those points. Flopping around could be town because there is not the typical wagon/counter-wagon structure. And this is, and has been sustained for a while. You were the first legitmate wagon that actually materialized, and then it melted. Which I do find to be a bit strange. But who the fuck knows at this point.

@nopower, stop telling people to stop name calling and start posting content please. You and FB have the same problem. It just reads as an easy post you keep making, and that I find to be a bit of a deflection and makes me think scummy? I think the point is that you need reasons for those reads. FB has more and other problems though.

@fire omfg, that is like one step below on the bully tier from elon musk's kid's name

Yeah, I think because it was the first real wagon, that scum jumped on it to see if it could be considered. A lynch so fast would be to their advantage. I would be surprised if they didn't try to take advantage, which is why I think one or two of them are sitting on it.

[Drew-Sta]

@drew, so he hops on your wagon after the momentum starts, then it fizzles, and he goes back.

I think at that point he'd started the wagon, then jumped off it, then jumped back on.

That bit doesn't ping me. What pings me is he was happy to flop about on a few other people, but the person he was drilling early on, he never voted for.

Why wouldn't you do that?!

[Drew-Sta]

Spoiler:

Norwegian, thoughts on this Jester talk? What do you think should be done if there is a Jester?

I think jester talk is fine because it can be used to see who's got a scummy mindset or not. But i'm pretty sure it's just a fake claim so i don't personally care much about it. I don't believe this game actually has a jester.

I never understood this. This is what pinged me in the beginning. It seemed like they were fishing for insight of a player.

Lukewarm take.
VOTE: Mohab500

No reasoning. Just a hunch from Nor. I can live with that but it's something to note for further on.

Don’t have strong reads yet, but gut says Mohab for posturing all the time. Sakura Hana’s "low hanging fruit" shit also came out of nowhere. And i could see it as scum trying to look good by TR a popular scumread at the time.

Don’t have strong reads yet, but gut says Mohab for posturing all the time. Sakura Hana’s "low hanging fruit" shit also came out of nowhere. And i could see it as scum trying to look good by TR a popular scumread at the time.

What is posturing?

What is posturing?

I feel like he's been way too confident and maybe putting on a performance.

Well, to be honest. I could buy the read on Mohab. Because i've seen their play on a mini like ages ago as town, and it was pretty damn erratic. I don't know if they tend to be more calculating as scum though. Only seen their towngame.

This game does have way too many inactive players right now.

@Drew-Sta
@CooLDoG
@Blurryface3189
@Persivul

There's no progression, no development or narrowing view on Mohab. Just... the vote. This pinged me a bit. If they're scum hunting, why not form a more solid view or focus on them more?

I'm not sure i want to trust Firebringer anymore. Because their read on Sakura makes no sense. Why are they so obvtown bruh?
VOTE: Firebringer

This was my major ping. The chainsaw on FB. This, based also on FB and Sakura's weird little dance on why they're townreading each other, made me think 'this is distancing'. It appeared out of the blue, and it was consequential to what FB and Sakura did. So, I thought, this is FB and Nor distancing from each other, and the Sakura/FB thing was them establishing a towncore. It seems conspiratorial but it made sense at that time. It made me think Sakura and Nor are scum for sure, and FB was suspicious.

So this is the initial context. Then comes:

its the fact that i don't think ur trying to manipulate me in anyway. i think and this is just a theory (and u might try it next time ur scum) u would more or less use me as a foundation to get ur placeholder/foot in the game by locking me in for ur read and then maneuver from there. I think ur playing this without that when the easy option of manipulating me exists and I think even if ur going for a more serious game u would still try to manipulate me in some way.

I'm considering the fact that you've TR NPOM, Quick and now Sakura. I'm not seeing how this game makes sense if all scum are in lurkers. Are you just trying to pocket most of the active players? And what's this "they would manipulate me if i was scum" BS? How do you know that would be scum!Sakura's play here?

You're too fluffy and pockety compared to our last game FB. There's a pretty big difference.

Also your Persivul push is laughable at best, and downright scumlord-y at worst.

Also i'd like Sakura/Quick to actually explain why they tr FB, because that shit makes little sense to me right now.

Also, it's a minor take considering half the game is dead. But all of the wagons seen so far have been god-awful. Can we please get a good and decent one going on FB for the sake of my sanity. Tnx.

Tbh, i feel like that's exactly what you'd say considering your playstyle so far? Or do you think scum and town!you would react differently to my push here?

i am asking u, do u think i should be townreading u here based on ur play so far.

Here's a better question. Do you think all of the scum are in lurkers, and is Persivul seriously a good wagon in your eyes? I was under the impression it was a joke. But it seems like you were actually seriously wanting to lazily derail the game into a lurker lynch.

I don’t think FB flipping scum would equate Sakura scum based on FB’s play around the slot.

I am strongly against the Firebringer wagon, for the record.

If you could go into more detail about why you TR him that would be great.

By this stage, he's maintained his argument. Which, to be fair, is consistent, but, the following then happens as Cooldog enters:

@Cooldog
I bet you're going to townread someone extremely boring like Fredrick A Campbell. Ugh, old-fashioned snobs.

Why did you say that the two of them (sakura/monab) are scummy, but then you go onto vote on the same wagon that one of them is on?

Reads change over time. Novel concept i know.
I'm town on Mohab right now, unlike you i liked their reads list.
Sakura i believe to be town if Firebringer is scum. And that's my current belief. I'd quote my case on him, but you hate meta so whatever.

"Why are they so obvtown" is referring to me asking why FB is townreading Sakura so strongly based on very little reasoning. WHEN WILL YOU UNDERSTAND BASIC HUMAN LANGUAGE?

VOTE: Cooldog
Fuck you.

So this escalates for... basically Cooldog triggering Nor. Or something. Despite Nor saying this:

If I voted for firebringer would you think I was town?

It wouldn't make much of a difference. My read on you is still 'likely town' based on what i've seen so far. You've basically set up a premise of "fuck meta" and targeted both me and Firebringer using the same metric. So which one of us you vote doesn't really matter as far as my read is concerned atm. But it is annoying because i know i'm town and would rather see a wagon on Firebringer whom i scumread.

^^ Personally this speaks volumes. It's an AtE response by Nor. He town reads a guy, then does an immediate turn and now we're voting, and shit is hitting the fan.

So from glancing, most of the arguments on me just aren’t very good...? That’s twice now i’ve gotten dumped a bunch of musings and lazy detective work regarding my usage of hyperboles.
What’s your best argument in favour of scum!me from your POV Drew?

I think at this point, my main argument against you is you've not really scum hunted (save your read on FB, who at that point is the 'town leader' and driving the conversation), and your reactions to attention, which we'll continue to see, is touchy-nervousness. That, to me, is scum indicative because why does town ever get nervous?

I also think your chainsaw of FB stands out glaringly. It makes no sense. You literally took a massive double take on him, but no you haven't done anything about it at all.

If he's scum, why haven't you actually pressured him?

your chainsaw of FB.

So i’ve read what it means and i’ve never done this.

Wiki tells suck anyway.
I guess that’s all you can resort to when you eliminate meta and all beauty from your life?

This here is effectively an admission that 861 was not you representing things properly, and you then try to downplay it in 862. I won't say it's lying, but it is certianly twisting the truth. Again, nervousness. If you had chainsawed someone, and two people have seen it and mentioned it, why would you not admit it when it is said?

Your appeal to FB here on whether you did or not chainsaw was curious. Why ask a guy you don't town read whether you did something or not? It looked like you were trying to get other people to save your ass, so you walked in numbers.

Drew and Corndog could both either be scum or town depending on whether they are genuinely tunnely players or they are scum coming up with awful reasonings for scumreading me. Either way, they are always frustrating to deal with.

Ohhh i think i finally get it.
So Drew's got it in his head that Sakura is scum, and they view my supposed "defense" of Sakura by attacking FB as a indirect defense of Sakura. Even though i was actually attacking FB because i saw their TR of Sakura as a pocketing attempt. So they either misunderstood or misrepresented my post to suit this narrative. Am i right?

Alright boys and Drew-sta's in the crowd, let uncle Norwee explain basic shit to y'all. I'll only do this once so pay attention now! ^v^

I'm not sure i want to trust Firebringer anymore.

^This part of my post is indicating how a previous trust of Firebringer's town qualities had at this time been betrayed by the harsh and never ending passing of time, an concise explanation of this development follows in the next part of the quote. Which is as follows:

Because their read on Sakura makes no sense.

Here i am explaining how i saw Firebringer's read on Sakura as making little sense based upon further analysis. The inquiry is as follows:

Why are they so obvtown bruh?

Upon further examination, perhaps a rewrite would have been better for the purposes of clarifying my posts so that the more denser people in the crowd would be capable of correctly following the read progression in my excellent and capable mind.
To sum things up, my "why are they so obvtown bruh" sentence is asking the question to the subject: [Firebringer] why the defendant: [Sakura] is so, as he would put it. "town". When at the time i saw their little incursive explanations about Sakura's alignment leanings as quite scummy and very pockety.

VOTE: Firebringer

This needs no further explanation as it's as blunt as it comes.

Thank you~

I felt it odd that you now chose to clarify these posts. Like what you posted in the first place was somehow not what you meant. The other point is - we weren't dissecting what you meant, as that was clear. We were dissecting the intent behind it.

Why r u mad at Firebringer now Drew? I've been much more disrespectful. And i relish in it.

VOTE: Drew-sta
Does anyone townread him?

This flip here is what is interesting. You're SR'ing Mohab, then FB, then Cooldog, then me... You're flipping without making cases. At this point, and with the 'Does anyone town read him?' it seemed you were more interest in what people thought of your vote against me, than in your vote against me.

To me, that's scum behaviour.

You sure like saying the word "mislynch" a lot.
Like i think it's pretty obvious that my stance on your case about me and Sakura is that i think it's hot garbage, but sure. Keep framing it as OMGUS. See how far it will take you.

Yet you've not refuted it at all in any detail.

A wall about Nor and what has led me to believe he is scum.

I basically think it is an accumulation of things, in particular his lack of emphasis or push on any one player, particularly those who he claims he scum reads. It seems he's being opportunistic, and his jump onto my wagon identified that to me quite clearly.

Thus, I hold my vote on Nor.

[Drew-Sta]

I wake up to read this turd...

Before I put any effort in, will anything I say stop me from being lynched? I have a lot on the next two days so I’d rather not waste effort on something that won’t make a difference.

The horrible reads in me leading to this lynch are hall of fame quality.

[Drew-Sta]

I wake up to read this turd...

Before I put any effort in, will anything I say stop me from being lynched? I have a lot on the next two days so I’d rather not waste effort on something that won’t make a difference.

The horrible reads in me leading to this lynch are hall of fame quality.

Do you literally not care about anything but you not getting lynched? bruh

Of course I care. I just don’t want to put effort into something that won’t change.

I’m not switching to Mohab until I do the work to understand the reasons for myself.

[Drew-Sta]

I wake up to read this turd...

Before I put any effort in, will anything I say stop me from being lynched? I have a lot on the next two days so I’d rather not waste effort on something that won’t make a difference.

The horrible reads in me leading to this lynch are hall of fame quality.

Do you literally not care about anything but you not getting lynched? bruh

Of course I care. I just don’t want to put effort into something that won’t change.

I’m not switching to Mohab until I do the work to understand the reasons for myself.

You are not allowed to give up after I defended you so hard.

I really appreciated that tbh. And I thank you for it.

The problem with this game is I always struggle to accept white knighting due to the ability for it to be manipulated by mafia.

Anyway...

I’ll respond to some stuff. Give me time.

[Drew-Sta]

I wake up to read this turd...

Before I put any effort in, will anything I say stop me from being lynched? I have a lot on the next two days so I’d rather not waste effort on something that won’t make a difference.

The horrible reads in me leading to this lynch are hall of fame quality.

Do you literally not care about anything but you not getting lynched? bruh

Of course I care. I just don’t want to put effort into something that won’t change.

I’m not switching to Mohab until I do the work to understand the reasons for myself.

You are not allowed to give up after I defended you so hard.

I really appreciated that tbh. And I thank you for it.

The problem with this game is I always struggle to accept white knighting due to the ability for it to be manipulated by mafia.

Anyway...

I’ll respond to some stuff. Give me time.

[Drew-Sta]

I wake up to read this turd...

Before I put any effort in, will anything I say stop me from being lynched? I have a lot on the next two days so I’d rather not waste effort on something that won’t make a difference.

The horrible reads in me leading to this lynch are hall of fame quality.

Do you literally not care about anything but you not getting lynched? bruh

Of course I care. I just don’t want to put effort into something that won’t change.

I’m not switching to Mohab until I do the work to understand the reasons for myself.

You are not allowed to give up after I defended you so hard.

I really appreciated that tbh. And I thank you for it.

The problem with this game is I always struggle to accept white knighting due to the ability for it to be manipulated by mafia.

Anyway...

I’ll respond to some stuff. Give me time.

You have the second highest rating given my analysis of the game so far. Why would I just let my #2 TR get lynched?

If you’re town, then of course you won’t. If you’re scum, it’s a clever ruse to pocket me.

This is all WIFOM. I’m just expressing my tentativeness is all.

Nevertheless, what you said about me was true and that is not influenced by your alignment.

[Drew-Sta]

Told you norwee was scum. Dumbasses.

Well done everyone. That was an entertaining game to watch.

[Drew-Sta]

Hey now, no need to call people names.

I’m Australian. Calling people names is a compliment.

U were right, but for wrong reasons. U said Norwee was scum defending his ally Sakura.

Yes, true. He was pocketing instead. I learned my lesson.

Told you norwee was scum. Dumbasses.

Well done everyone. That was an entertaining game to watch.

one of the easier mislynches on this website

I actually am. I am only ever kept alive when I’m completely wrong as I tunnel like a shit head.

I enjoy these games. Any feedback on me as a player is happily accepted.