Not Known 15's Mini Normal Review, June (barely) 2020

[implosion]

It's technically past midnight here!

8 Vanilla Townies

Vanilla Townie

You are a Vanilla Townie.

You have no active abilities.

You win if all threats to the town are eliminated and at least one town-aligned player is alive.

Confirm by replying to this PM with a summary of your role.

1 Town Combined(Tracker/Follower/Watcher/Voyeur)

Town Combined(Tracker/Follower/Watcher/Voyeur)

You are a Town Combined(Tracker/Follower/Watcher/Voyeur)

Abilities:

Every night, you may target a player. Assuming no interference with your action, you will learn where the player went, what type of action they performed, who targeted the player and what type(s) of action targeted the player

Win condition:

You win if all threats to the town are eliminated and at least one town-aligned player is alive.

1 Town Universal Backup

Town Universal Backup

You are a Town Universal Backup

You will replace the first power role with the same alignment as yours that dies(any role other than Vanilla).

You win if all threats to the town are eliminated and at least one town-aligned player is alive.

Confirm by replying to this PM with a summary of your role.

1 Mafia Encryptor

Mafia Encryptor

You are a Mafia Encryptor
Your team-mates are

name

and

name

. You may talk to them

here

during night phases and confirmations only.

You, and anyone else present, may talk in Private Topics containing you even during the Day.

Each night, if no other member of your faction is performing this action, you may target a player. Assuming no interference with your action, that player will die.

You win if at least one mafia member is alive and all other players are dead (or if nothing can prevent the same).

Confirm by replying to this PM with a summary of your role.

1 Mafia Odd-Night (Ninja Rolecop)

Mafia Odd-Night (Ninja Rolecop)

You are a Mafia Odd-Night (Ninja Rolecop)

Your team-mates are

name

and

name

. You may talk to them

here

during night phases and confirmations only.

Each night, if no other member of your faction is performing this action, you may target a player. Assuming no interference with your action, that player will die.
Each odd-numbered night, you may target a player. Assuming no interference with your action, you will learn that player's role (but not their alignment). This action is not visible to Tracker-like and Watcher-like roles.

You win if at least one mafia member is alive and all other players are dead (or if nothing can prevent the same).

Confirm by replying to this PM with a summary of your role.

1 Mafia Universal Backup

Mafia Universal Backup

You are a Mafia Universal Backup

Your team-mates are

name

and

name

. You may talk to them

here

during night phases and confirmations only.

You will replace the first power role with the same alignment as yours that dies(any role other than Vanilla).

Each night, if no other member of your faction is performing this action, you may target a player. Assuming no interference with your action, that player will die.

You win if at least one mafia member is alive and all other players are dead (or if nothing can prevent the same).

Confirm by replying to this PM with a summary of your role.

Welcome to my Mini Normal.

Rules:
1.Follow the Site Rules. This includes not talking about ongoing games.
2.You may have access to private threads (e.g. Mafia factional chat); you can talk about this game there, but you may not quote anything from them outside of the PT. You may not quote any game-related PMs without express permission by your game mod.
3.Play to win this game.
4.Lurking: You will be prodded after 2 days of no substantial contribution(no prod dodging). After 24 hours of an unanswered prod I will search for a replacement(unless V/LA). Four prods in total, or two prods in one day will result in an instant replacement. ASK FOR REPLACEMENT IN A PM.
5.Vacation/Limited Access: Tell me when you are going to have limited access. If you have limited access, you will still count as having a prod after 3 days, and you will be instantly replaced after 5 days in total.
6.Weekend: For the purposes of prods and nights, Sunday and Saturday count as 12 hours each.
7.CHEATING:Cheating(breaking site rules, posting while dead, quoting Role PM's without explicit permission, encrypting posts without explicit permission, editing/deleting posts without explicit permission, doing anything obviously against the spirit of the rules) is forbidden. Don't do it.
Setup information:

8.Length of day phases:7 days. More if replacements force me to extend the phase.
9.Length of nights: 2 days. Will usually not end before all replacements are finished.

10. Lynching:A lynch necessiates more than 50% of all possible votes. You may vote for No Lynch. A No Lynch needs 50% of all possible votes.

11:Hammer:As soon as the required number of people for a Lynch or NoLynch is reached, the game descends into Twilight.
12:Twilight:Alive people, including the hammered lynch target, may continue to post until the flip.
13:Flip: After the flip the game descends into Night.
14:Daychat: No evil faction has daychat by default.
15:Natural Action Resolution applies. Same priority cycles are resolved by making all actions of the same priority fail(e.g.Roleblocker vs Roleblocker, only both roleblocks fail).
16:Color, Backup Mod color and Vanilla Role PM:

Vanilla Townie

You are a Vanilla Townie.

You have no active abilities.

You win if all threats to the town are eliminated and at least one town-aligned player is alive.

Confirm by replying to this PM with a summary of your role.

At least one person recieved this Role PM.

This is my color

#BF8080). Do not use it.
17:Breaking rules can result in any kind of punishment. Do not break the rules.
18:I may add additional rules at my discretion. I will tell everyone via PM if this happens.

Results:
You saw X visiting [your target].
You saw no-one visiting [your target].
You saw [your target] being targeted by the following type(s) of actions: Kill
You didn`t see [your target] being targeted by any type of action.
You saw [your target] visiting X.
You didn`t see [your target] visiting anyone.
You saw [your target] performing the following type(s) of actions: Kill
You didn`t see [your target] performing any type of action.

Your target is Vanilla.
Your target is a Universal Backup.
Your target is a Combined(Follower/Tracker/Watcher/Voyeur).
Your target is an Encryptor.

[implosion]

Primary: Something_Smart
Secondary: schadd_

[Not Known 15]

ego

[Something_Smart]

Ego. Looks scumsided at first glance.

[Something_Smart]

Looks scumsided at second glance too, and pretty swingy since town's entire power is in getting guilties, so town has a pretty decent chance of just having no power for the entire game.

On the other side of the coin, watcher is really feel-bad for scum, and getting nailed by two watchers would feel awful.

[Not Known 15]

Looks scumsided at second glance too, and pretty swingy since town's entire power is in getting guilties, so town has a pretty decent chance of just having no power for the entire game.

On the other side of the coin, watcher is really feel-bad for scum, and getting nailed by two watchers would feel awful.

Can you elaborate a bit more? It is obviously swingy but why do you think it is scumsided?

[schadd_]

2nding that this is scumsided and also does not feel good for the roles

we have run a 13p with watcher + backup watcher + 2-shot vig vs. goons before, whose power level i'm pretty content with : https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=77859 (the game was a town stomp. lol. just including the link for the setup)

it's hard to get a sense of how strong the addition of the tracker to the watcher is (follower/voyeur don't really change anything). i'd think you prioritize the watcher action, which means that the tracker results are a small body of work on people that were already likely town (expected NK targets). it could maybe be argued to equal the power of a 2-shot vig though it's a very sketchy equivalence; the ninja rolecop (plus backup) makes that no longer true

the setup without a ninja rolecop i would pass. adding town roles here is obviously a bit tricky since it would also slightly weaken the backup and proctectives make the setup go wild; something like an even-night gunsmith would probably work

[Not Known 15]

2nding that this is scumsided and also does not feel good for the roles

we have run a 13p with watcher + backup watcher + 2-shot vig vs. goons before, whose power level i'm pretty content with : https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=77859 (the game was a town stomp. lol. just including the link for the setup)

it's hard to get a sense of how strong the addition of the tracker to the watcher is (follower/voyeur don't really change anything). i'd think you prioritize the watcher action, which means that the tracker results are a small body of work on people that were already likely town (expected NK targets). it could maybe be argued to equal the power of a 2-shot vig though it's a very sketchy equivalence; the ninja rolecop (plus backup) makes that no longer true

the setup without a ninja rolecop i would pass. adding town roles here is obviously a bit tricky since it would also slightly weaken the backup and proctectives make the setup go wild; something like an even-night gunsmith would probably work

First: Follower/Voyeur change it a great deal, caught Mafia cannot try to get out of that by claims, or by claiming that there is a ninja.
Second: Did you take into account that the Ninja modifier in this case(and yes that`s normal according to https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Ninja)

only applies to the role

?

[Something_Smart]

Follower/Voyeur change it a great deal, caught Mafia cannot try to get out of that by claims, or by claiming that there is a ninja.

That's not really much of a change; I've never seen a watcher-guiltied player get out of it with any claim.

[Something_Smart]

The reason I think it's scumsided is that if town doesn't get a watcher guilty, they have pretty much nothing. Tracker innos are possible but require two scum to die without scum finding out the town PR's, and as a general rule PR's tend to get outed quicker than you'd think they would.

[schadd_]

2nding SS that watcher/tracker guilties are rarely escaped from

yes i understand how the ninja rolecop is parsed here

[Not Known 15]

The reason I think it's scumsided is that if town doesn't get a watcher guilty, they have pretty much nothing.

Then either:
1. the Watcher plays bad; sometimes power roles(e.g. Vigilante) make the game a lot more difficult for town if they are applied badly.
or:
2. the Mafia makes suboptimal kills and is more likely to be caught.

[Not Known 15]

8 Vanilla Townies

Vanilla Townie

You are a Vanilla Townie.

You have no active abilities.

You win if all threats to the town are eliminated and at least one town-aligned player is alive.

Confirm by replying to this PM with a summary of your role.

1 Town Combined(Tracker/Follower/Watcher/Voyeur)

Town Combined(Tracker/Follower/Watcher/Voyeur)

You are a Town Combined(Tracker/Follower/Watcher/Voyeur)

Abilities:

Every night, you may target a player. Assuming no interference with your action, you will learn where the player went, what type of action they performed, who targeted the player and what type(s) of action targeted the player

Win condition:

You win if all threats to the town are eliminated and at least one town-aligned player is alive.

1 Town Universal Backup

Town Universal Backup

You are a Town Universal Backup

You will replace the first power role with the same alignment as yours that dies(any role other than Vanilla).

You win if all threats to the town are eliminated and at least one town-aligned player is alive.

Confirm by replying to this PM with a summary of your role.

1 Mafia Encryptor

Mafia Encryptor

You are a Mafia Encryptor
Your team-mates are

name

and

name

. You may talk to them

here

during night phases and confirmations only.

You, and anyone else present, may talk in Private Topics containing you even during the Day.

Each night, if no other member of your faction is performing this action, you may target a player. Assuming no interference with your action, that player will die.

You win if at least one mafia member is alive and all other players are dead (or if nothing can prevent the same).

Confirm by replying to this PM with a summary of your role.

1 Mafia Night 3 (Ninja Rolecop)

Mafia Night 3 (Ninja Rolecop)

You are a Mafia Night 3 (Ninja Rolecop)

Your team-mates are

name

and

name

. You may talk to them

here

during night phases and confirmations only.

Each night, if no other member of your faction is performing this action, you may target a player. Assuming no interference with your action, that player will die.
On Night 3, you may target a player. Assuming no interference with your action, you will learn that player's role (but not their alignment). This action is not visible to Tracker-like and Watcher-like roles.

You win if at least one mafia member is alive and all other players are dead (or if nothing can prevent the same).

Confirm by replying to this PM with a summary of your role.

1 Mafia Universal Backup

Mafia Universal Backup

You are a Mafia Universal Backup

Your team-mates are

name

and

name

. You may talk to them

here

during night phases and confirmations only.

You will replace the first power role with the same alignment as yours that dies(any role other than Vanilla).

Each night, if no other member of your faction is performing this action, you may target a player. Assuming no interference with your action, that player will die.

You win if at least one mafia member is alive and all other players are dead (or if nothing can prevent the same).

Confirm by replying to this PM with a summary of your role.

Welcome to my Mini Normal.

Rules:
1.Follow the Site Rules. This includes not talking about ongoing games.
2.You may have access to private threads (e.g. Mafia factional chat); you can talk about this game there, but you may not quote anything from them outside of the PT. You may not quote any game-related PMs without express permission by your game mod.
3.Play to win this game.
4.Lurking: You will be prodded after 2 days of no substantial contribution(no prod dodging). After 24 hours of an unanswered prod I will search for a replacement(unless V/LA). Four prods in total, or two prods in one day will result in an instant replacement. ASK FOR REPLACEMENT IN A PM.
5.Vacation/Limited Access: Tell me when you are going to have limited access. If you have limited access, you will still count as having a prod after 3 days, and you will be instantly replaced after 5 days in total.
6.Weekend: For the purposes of prods and nights, Sunday and Saturday count as 12 hours each.
7.CHEATING:Cheating(breaking site rules, posting while dead, quoting Role PM's without explicit permission, encrypting posts without explicit permission, editing/deleting posts without explicit permission, doing anything obviously against the spirit of the rules) is forbidden. Don't do it.
Setup information:

8.Length of day phases:7 days. More if replacements force me to extend the phase.
9.Length of nights: 2 days. Will usually not end before all replacements are finished.

10. Lynching:A lynch necessiates more than 50% of all possible votes. You may vote for No Lynch. A No Lynch needs 50% of all possible votes.

11:Hammer:As soon as the required number of people for a Lynch or NoLynch is reached, the game descends into Twilight.
12:Twilight:Alive people, including the hammered lynch target, may continue to post until the flip.
13:Flip: After the flip the game descends into Night.
14:Daychat: No evil faction has daychat by default.
15:Natural Action Resolution applies. Same priority cycles are resolved by making all actions of the same priority fail(e.g.Roleblocker vs Roleblocker, only both roleblocks fail).
16:Color, Backup Mod color and Vanilla Role PM:

Vanilla Townie

You are a Vanilla Townie.

You have no active abilities.

You win if all threats to the town are eliminated and at least one town-aligned player is alive.

Confirm by replying to this PM with a summary of your role.

At least one person recieved this Role PM.

This is my color

#BF8080). Do not use it.
17:Breaking rules can result in any kind of punishment. Do not break the rules.
18:I may add additional rules at my discretion. I will tell everyone via PM if this happens.

Results:
You saw X visiting [your target].
You saw no-one visiting [your target].
You saw [your target] being targeted by the following type(s) of actions: Kill
You didn`t see [your target] being targeted by any type of action.
You saw [your target] visiting X.
You didn`t see [your target] visiting anyone.
You saw [your target] performing the following type(s) of actions: Kill
You didn`t see [your target] performing any type of action.

Your target is Vanilla.
Your target is a Universal Backup.
Your target is a Combined(Follower/Tracker/Watcher/Voyeur).
Your target is an Encryptor.

[Not Known 15]

Can I get some more feedback now?

[Something_Smart]

Sorry

I don't think a setup where the actions of one townie makes or breaks it will feel fun for the other nine (or the one, if they screw up and town completely tanks as a result).

[Something_Smart]

I think you should weaken the impact of that role either by removing some of its powers, gating it, or giving scum a counter, and you should add some more town power.

[Not Known 15]

In this case I`d rather do something else right now and come back with a better idea next time.
Thanks for reviewing.