Mini Normal 2146: Cute Pets Game Over, Town wins

[UnaBombaH]

WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo.
I'm really not THAT excited.
VOTE: Morgan le Fay - because they made me think of "Fata Morgana".

[UnaBombaH]

Una hiding that they like the idea of a Futa Morgana?

If we are really talking about the "complex form of superior mirage" which was named after the beautiful Morgan le Fay from the Arthurian legends - love it.
Such an intriguing form of a natural optical illusion.

[UnaBombaH]

Also - did Espeonage turn to Eeveelutions simply because they are awesome, or because Sneasel just can't cut it?

[UnaBombaH]

it's been many moons since i've dipped my toes in the mafia waters. perhaps even years. i don't remember which game(s) we've played together.

Many moons, but not that many years.
For you and I have played a game together.

[UnaBombaH]

There's this weird dance forming within Hoopla-gobbledygook-AGar.
notscience and Espeonage are still reconsidering their invites.

My gut has been building in the past few years, and I do have feelings, hence:
VOTE: notscience

[UnaBombaH]

I'm not saying both of you are scum, but I feel like your early posting fits the bill of circling the most intense focus while still appearing to take part in it.
So far it's just a hunch, but I think Espeonage isn't far off from that same spot.

[UnaBombaH]

AFAIK - Hoopla is a good enough scumplayer, and most of all, a teamplayer.
We got caught as scum together for being too tightly knit of a group in an open game (I think it was? Too lazy to fact-check now), and they gracefully accepted defeat and fought to the end.
That's all the meta that comes to mind.

[UnaBombaH]

So for my clarification- talking about espe but not voting him?

What do you mean by this? I can't vote for you both?

I think town!Hoopla could/would try building a towncore like that.
I don't think that's alignment indicative as a move.
If anything, you'd both be more likely to flip scum if one of you does now!

[UnaBombaH]

also question, are mafia traitors common in mini normals?

Mind sharing WHY you'd consider this a valid question?

A simple solution suggests that you KNOW there is a Traitor, and this was a signal.
Why else would one ever come to think of this?

[UnaBombaH]

I just don’t get how a newbie pulls traitor spec out of their ass like that tbh

Exactly.
My questions might seem like a silly repeat on the surface level, but there was more to it than that.
The real questions is still "WHY".
I get it, their answer was sufficient enough for why they became suspicious and all, but WHY did they just drop that questions in the thread as it was?

[UnaBombaH]

the traitor stuff is really dumb and just proves the Gypyx is probably a newbie after all who read the wiki to make himself smarter

Exactly the opposite IMO!

Had he read about traitors, he wouldn't just ask "how common they are". He would know the roles normal guidelines and that's all that matters.

[UnaBombaH]

current members:

hoopla (president)
gobbledygook
notscience
renaissance
gypyx

Awfully, Awfully built.
I think you might be town here, but there's still 1-2 scum there.
Also,is gypyx only there because of the Traitor-talk, or did I miss something towny?

[UnaBombaH]

Who are the the 1-2 scum in here?

If I had to start somewhere, I guess I'd be looking first in notscience /renaissance/gypyx.
I have a feeling Hoopla might be town, but is just overeager to townbin people right now.
And these are the three I'm most interested in myself.

[UnaBombaH]

fishing for meta reasons to dismiss the traitor wierdness as being scummy. THis is basically offering up a softball for him to hit out of the park. THis is the opposite of scum hunting.

This x10.
CooLDoG is my favorite townlean so far anyway.

[UnaBombaH]

Strange that you assume that if he's read about traitors, he'd know about normal guidelines or how common traitors are, which are two entirely different topics.

That is how the Mafiascum-wiki is built.
Every role has a very visible and obvious section for "Normal guidelines".
So yea, I think it would be a fair assumption if someone goes to the wiki to learn something for a Normal game, that they'd also check the "normal guidelines" for it.

The rarity of it all is a different thing - hence why I asked him why he thought it was a valid question to ask how common they are.
He could've just as well moved straight to his actual post in:

are y'all just the scum team.? ..you can tell me if you are

well then, this post looks really weird to me, might be another one of Flippy's joke posts, but it really stands out in his ISO

The first post to mention a Traitor is always the one that starts the discussion and sort of "allows" everyone else to use the word with a non-scummy context.

[UnaBombaH]

@Umbreon: You're right about the wiki layout, but why do you think knowing traitors are normal is the same thing as knowing "how common they are"? Something might be normal, but that doesn't tell you how often they're included by mods.

I'm not sure what more I can say on this, and I honestly do not feel like doing it anymore either. But.
WHY did he feel the need to ask how common they are?
He can see it from the Normal Guidelines that they EXIST, that is all the relevant information.
If they are ultra-rare - so what?
If they are in almost any game - so what?
Instead of immediately coming out with their "theory" on scum!Espe (it was Espe right?) based on an assumption of a Traitor, they felt the need to ask how common they are first.
So, why?

They felt like making a post with the sole purpose of mentioning a "traitor"?
Or they DIDN'T check the wiki at all - which raises the question why so many already assumed they had checked the role there and therefore mentioning it isn't scummy at all...

[UnaBombaH]

I can feel my townlean on CoolDog waning with each post.
Over-exaggerated selfconfidence and the attitude in their latest posts make me sad.

[UnaBombaH]

Also.
I'm gonna drop the topic now, but I heavily disagree with two separate assessments made regarding the Traitor-talk.
First of all, if someone thinks they have spotted a tell for a traitor, it does not matter how "common" they are. If they are allowed in Normals, they can be in any and every game.
I just finished a game with two Millers, Innocent Child, a Town Ascetic Encryptor with no hoods and two scum in it. (11:2)

I do not EXPECT to run into a setup like this ever again, but that wasn't the first time on site with two Millers in the game.
So assuming something based on how common it is?
I think it has some similarities with how Gamblers fallacy works.

[UnaBombaH]

..and second of all..

gypyx is likely only scum if there is a traitor. his alignment could sort itself out without us guessing, if one were to flip at some point.

But we do not know whether he'd be the traitor himself. Meaning that unless he's ever flipped himself, we might not get the confirmation that a Traitor exists.

There, now I'm done with the subject, and will look for scummy posts with a different perspective.

[UnaBombaH]

Once more people are driving a wagon for a D1-lynch that I simply do not understand.
I mean, out of all the slots in this game right now, you really think Espeonage is the one that'll yield a scum flip?
Or in the case of a mislynch, the most associations possible?
I honestly think the best lynch option comes from Hooplas so called townblock.

[UnaBombaH]

Una could be scum. Talking an awful lot about things without using his vote

Talking an awful lot?
Objectively false - check the postcounts.
Not using my vote?
Objectively false - I have cast my vote, and so far think it is in a reasonable slot.

[UnaBombaH]

That reads to me like a scum reaction.

How on earth did you get a read like that?
I'm starting to think you are the type of player who decide outcomes and reads first, and then make everything new fit that decision.
There was absolutely nothing about my latest post that wasn't dedicated to

correcting

false statements about my own play so far.
If you find that scummy, slap a vote on me.
I can't do much to help you.

Most of your posts are talking about Gypyx. Ergo talking a lot but not doing anything with your vote

Ah, but then you took an opportune time to scold me.
I have already said my piece regarding Gypyx, and I thought I made it rather clear as well, hmm?

Moving on, as should you.

[UnaBombaH]

Well, wasting your votes and energy on me is still even less profitable for us than it was when voting for Espeonage.

Let me ask you this - do you believe Hoopla has managed to create an all-town group, with their masterful craft so far?

[UnaBombaH]

Since I have your permission.

If that's what it takes, I guess you are playing this game sort of wrong?

[UnaBombaH]

All I can say to anyone watching on the sidelines: I've voted for one slot in the Hooplas so called townies, stirred discussion around the one slot who I think got a townread on a silly reasoning based on Traitor-talk, AND am apparently at odds with two others who have decided to start a wagon on me.

All in Hooplas list.
I think our D1-lynch MOST DEFINITELY should be amongst that group, and considering the latest pages I'm starting to think notscience might be the least scummy for now after all.

UNVOTE:

[UnaBombaH]

Oh, and Flippynips doing that whole vote-unvote act above feels absolutely uncharacteristic of him.
Based on the (admittedly limited) experience I have of him, that is.

[UnaBombaH]

I already explained that Espeonage is the ammo I need to get you lynched. I think you distanced from Espeonage. I have been perfectly clear why I am not voting you. Now I am trying to find your other buddy. I am stuck between notscience and Una as the last one.

This quote has pretty much all the reasons why I'm not taking this turkey seriously as of now.
Not only are you saying here that you are already looking for teammates for the scum you have already "found"(??), but you also admit to having not voted for someone because you don't think they are likely to get lynched as of now, even if you think they are scum (AGar?)
So preflip associations and scumreading others for actions you take yourself?

Una on the other hand has done nothing to ask anyone about notscience or to get anyone to vote notscience or really do anything in relation to notscience. That is why I called out his vote.

Well, I sort of DID get sidetracked by Gypyx, and I think I made it rather clear?
AND I also realized that myself, hence I also made it clear I was done talking about him for now, AND unvoted notscience since nothing was happening there at this time.
My vote is likely more valuable somewhere else today, as they do not seem like a likely lynch for today, no matter what I do.
AND their posting has at least been more sound to me, than yours or renaissances, so there's that too.

Interesting that he unvotes notscience when called out on it despite notscience still being on his short list of people to lynch don't you think.

Don't flatter yourself.
You've been a goof in your last couple of posts, and you think I'd get scared from you calling me out in posts like these?
Get one of your scumreads flipped and then explain away how your masterful "solve" collapsed on the first one.

[UnaBombaH]

My CoolDog read still has conditions on it, but he has done enough now that I can town read him independent of any conditions. Thank goodness. I did not want to reveal my conditions.

Also - THIS is antitown if anything.
I get constantly called out for my vague and "mysterious" reads, but it's almost always something related with PRs or silly meta-tells I do not feel like outing.
But instead of continuosly repeating them for funsies, I state them and move on.
Dwelling on them like this, only makes them stick out more for scum, and everyone who ever has trouble trusting you/CoolDog.

[UnaBombaH]

that's right i did ask una why he's sring NS. i feel like im getting called out left & right for only memeing but i've asked plenty of questions that are just getting pushed aside as of rn by una since you've responded gobble

I guess I've missed that question then?
Sorry about that.

My initial scumread on notscience came about from their earliest interactions with/around Hoopla.
Hoopla was awkwardly(?) trying to build the first bridge, and I think notscience reacted in a suspicious manner.
My take on it was something a scum would likely do - not jumping at the thought and immediately hopping onboard the townbin, but trying to come across suspecting and hard to get.
Somehow I got the read that a scummie had to fake suspicions and paranoia towards Hoopla, because in reality they KNOW their alignment.

That feeling has somewhat passed, especially since I feel like there are better lynchoptions in the same "towngroup" from Hoopla now.
But whenever I reread those first interactions, I have a feeling notscience was putting on an act.

[UnaBombaH]

not getting what you're putting down here, i have una as a townie tbh

Because unlike gobbledygook here, you are reading the game and understand things.
I feel like it has to be a playstyle-thing, because I HAVE heard of gobbledy before.
I've heard begrudging admittals of a somewhat decent towngame..

Mate... day one the only lynch I'm adamantly against is my own.

I honestly dislike it when people seem to say "lynch whoever D1 and we get flips and the game starts", but I can also really understand this PoV.
Often it ends up being very hard to feel good about any one lynch over the rest D1, but we all know we need to make one too.
I'd still argue that the best thing anyone and everyone CAN do is just start raising discussion about anyone and everyone.
At least that way we have the most to analyze later.

[UnaBombaH]

I feel like someone asked for my reads at some point as well, and even if no one did..

I guess my only townleans so far are AGar and Hiraki.
I like their individual mindsets, and they seem to pay attention to details in these masses of nothingness we sometimes refer to as posts.

My swaying reads are currently quite a bunch, unfortunately.
On the upper side of them though, I have CoolDog and Flippynips.
I got some towny vibes from their earlier posts, but I feel both of them took some steps in their later posts that turned me a little sour towards them. I think I've already pointed those individual posts out already.

On the other hand, Prana is looking like a hedgehog again.
And I'm having trouble deciding where to place them as of now.
Espeonage and Lickety both land on the same slot as Prana.
Somewhere slightly below the null-line, but mainly because it's been harder to cipher a read out of them, than it has been from CoolDog and Flippy.

My lynchpool for today, and the scumleans I have gathered so far, shamefully include too many people as of now.
But I'd like to repeat my earlier statement - the list made by Hoopla

hoopla (president)
gobbledygook
notscience
renaissance
gypyx

I feel like I'd be willing to lynch anyone on this list D1, and truly believe there has to be at least one scum within it. Potentially more.
notscience was the first one to ping my radar, and gypyx the second. (although the discussion ended up being more mechanical to others, which is why I dropped it)
Now gobbledy and renaissance both felt, at the same time mind you, that I was the most scummy player in the game?
I could understand people protecting the townblock and their position in it later on in the game, but D1?

I think out of the 2 of them, renaissance is currently the more suspicious one, but I'm looking out for all of them.
VOTE: renaissance

[UnaBombaH]

How do you vote someone only to immediatly unvote them the next post? especially considering that you also had different scum leans at the time of that post

My thoughts exactly.
Lends thought to the idea that Flippy felt like he needed a reason to unvote Hoopla, but didn't want to "just unvote".

I immediately disliked that particular vote-unvote because of it, and it made me reconsider my read on Flippy and Hoopla both.

[UnaBombaH]

So NS isn’t pinging you as much anymore? Or are you trying to wagon someone you think it could stick on?

Something like that, but I'd nuance it by saying others ping more.
AND the fact that I do not see NotScience being the wagon today.

[UnaBombaH]

So, guess I'll have to unvote renaissance for that replacement.
UNVOTE:
What gives me hope is that both replacements so far have had multiple points that matched with some of my earlier reads.
What's a bit worse is that I really thought renaissance was scum, and therefore farside is scum AND THEREFORE my early reads would've matched those of a scumplayer faking.. Oh well.
VOTE: gobbledygook
I was trying to decide between the two of them anyway, so I guess it sort of solve itself in the end.
I also love it that AGar called gobbledy out for the exact same shit that they originally started "scumreading" me for.
And even then, a lazy wagon is formed.

[UnaBombaH]

I have always been taught to respect my elders, but an early join date in itself clearly brings no wisdom.
Hoopla voting me based on intuition at this point is silly, and mind you - my take on his "towngroup" so far has been that Hoopla is just misguided town, and the scumsters are the ones enjoying the free buffet.

[UnaBombaH]

If farside and BM make good catchups, there may still be hope for a solid D1-lynch.

[UnaBombaH]

I'm going to be around fairly little in the next ~24h, because tuesday is always a D&D-day, and it's also been busy at work.
Meaning that I can't prep for my session at work AND read MafiaScum both.
That's a busy day on todays standards..

[UnaBombaH]

It's a shame farside had to replace out.
I was feeling decently good about their reads so far.

[UnaBombaH]

I woke up and was greeted to this post which summarizes my thoughts

So perhaps you'll join us on this slow cooking process of the turkey?

[UnaBombaH]

I read, I approved of what I saw.

[UnaBombaH]

i have a prana/unabombah scumteam, by the way.

You should be above this..

So Hoopla, are you just scum here after all?
I vaguely remember the game we were scum together, and I thought you were able to fake rational reads back then.
I actually thought it would've been nice to be town together in another game because I really thought you'd actually make accurate reads as town.

Why have you paired me and prana?
And furthermore - what makes you so sure that gobbledy is town?

[UnaBombaH]

i have a prana/unabombah scumteam, by the way.

not sure who the third is yet, but it isn't the turkey. i'm quietly confident he is town, and am hoping the non-voters, replacements and vanity vote-parkers select una ahead of him.

i'd be voting prana way ahead of una. and keepin' it real - the unabombah wagon ain't shit right now. Momentum says we lynch Gypyx.

Wait wait, but why Gypyx over Gobbledy?

[UnaBombaH]

I think he was playing it too safe, got called on it and Overcorrected himself.

You know, I questioned and pressured Gypyx to the best of my abilities after that susssssss talk about a Traitor.
But this course of action here -

FoS instead of vote -> get called out for it -> vote

- seems like something that can be called scummy in the very same manner.
So he is either one of the worst scumplayers I have seen, or he is just a shaky townplayer. And I'm starting to lean towards the latter.
Over-explaining, over-analyzing, over-cautious.

[UnaBombaH]

As of now, anyone pushing for gypyx based on these actions might just be scum pushing for an "easy" lynch, or to misguide town away from the first good wagon we got going.
Interestingly enough, that wagon for Gypyx re-emerged as a response to the Gobbledy-wagon gaining critical mass.

Now, as I'm not arrogant enough to say that I'm 100% on it, I'm willing to accept an alternate scenario where Gypyx is indeed scum and in that case Gobbledy is likely town.
But for now, I'm not even considering moving my vote since Gypyx seems like a suboptimal choice today.

[UnaBombaH]

Agar- the way gypdanced around it gave me the heebie jeebies. Like regardless of the flip I could see soft bus or distancing from a mid Lynch.

Even more reason to lynch Gobbledy today, and analyze those actions based on the flip..?

[UnaBombaH]

Hoopla what made him go from “I sense people aren’t townreading him” to “he’s on a scum team with prana”

process-of-elimination and some advanced wagon composition analytics from my patented H.A.H.A system of advanced tells for advanced players.

believe me, i have these guys pinned.

This is wrong, lazy and not even that funny.
OK, sort of funny.

Maybe just play normally for a moment and help people get a reliable read on you as well?
I'm sure you can post "normally" too, and this has just all been a gameplay-decision by you.

[UnaBombaH]

if you think i'm able to fake rational reads as scum, wouldn't my hypothetically irrational reads now be a town tell?

No, it does not work like that!
C'mon help me out here.

[UnaBombaH]

Does that mean you don't consider my posting normal?

[UnaBombaH]

i do get behavioural reads on D1, but they are more intuitive and based on how players interact with/perceive me, since that is the only alignment i currently know.

This makes sense to me, and reflects very much how I used to play D1s and 2s.
The thing here, is that it's misguided as hell to assume "I am town, therefore everyone should always know I'm town, or they are scum".

AND I'M NOT SAYING YOU DO ( )

, but that is often the problem.
People tend to get caught in the emotional side when no one trusts them or understands them.
And we can rarely see the flaws in ourselves - something we do or say might seem scummy to someone else but the fault is always in them.
Like how Gobbledy already said.

See ya nerds. This is probably a town loss with how bad the town is

= Salty/arrogant/selfcentered or whatever. I hate that post, and I've seen it from many players on this site.
The rest of us are all bad, because "we can't see how clearly he is town and everyone he votes is scum" - or something to that extent.
How about sometimes, if the majority is against you, the flaw might be in..you?

And while this could be interpreted in many ways, it's always just AtE and venting.
He could be scum faking it, or trying to vent his frustration.
But it does NOTHING to help town.
It's a team game.
If you get wagoned and lynched D1, no matter your alignment, use all the ammo you have left in favor of your surviving teammates.
And thus, I'm not moving my vote from Gobbledy, and consider their reactions on being wagoned very scummy indeed.
Ugh.

[UnaBombaH]

Now moving onto the actual subject at hand.

una, i could fake confidence in reads or scumhunt in the traditional way on D1 if i wanted to, but i don't. if an observation comes to mind, i offer those, but i prefer putting my energy into motivating the town to actually make decisions and organise a lynch wagon.

But don't you think we are already seeing wagons?
I believe Gobbledy is a very reasonable lynch.
I believe there's an equally high chance for the rest of the town to rally up on Gypyx.
Meaning that we are going to get a lynch today, and I already feel like we are closing in on the actual consensus forming.

I can't speak for you or anyone else, but I feel like there are multiple associations to be read here already.
I feel like my early nitpicking on the Traitor-thing achieved something quite useful as well.
I already moved on from it myself, but seeing how people come back to it from time to time, and now that this wagon has formed on Gypyx, it gives me lots of ideas on how and why scum might be playing this.

Obviously it's all theoretical until we get some flips, but I have a good feeling about this D1.

[UnaBombaH]

I'd like to repeat and reiterate one of my earliest reads - I still believe Hoopla is town here.
I feel like their current misreads are me (as scum) and Gobbledy (as town).

And in case it wasn't clear from my latest posts - I'm currently leaning "noob-townie" on Gypyx rather than scum.

[UnaBombaH]

Klick had a few clear mistakes regarding me in their catchup. But since it has been declared scummy to "defend yourself", I'll just have to see how much bullshitting can sway the votes.
Hoopla is misreading my tone/intentions completely. Especially if she really thinks there's something similar here to my scumgame.

I think flippynips is the type of player who could whip out a claim like that as either alignment.
My honest read is that their claim is NOT alignment-indicative.
Other than that, I still think they are on the towny side off null.
They just have consistency issues.

[UnaBombaH]

If it wasn't for the detriment of the current wagons, I'd be happy enough to move my vote back to the renaissance-slot.
I still think Gobbledy flips red though, so once we are done with that flip, we can continue on to klick.

The one who called them a revolving door, and obv.town or whatever, has also earned some scummy-points.
Can't check it out now, but I believe that might be a teammate giving their support to a slot that just doesn't like playing scum.

[UnaBombaH]

I can't recall what Una thinks about anything that isn't the Traitor Problem.

Then you haven't tried. I said plenty.
Futhermore, one of the reasons I wanted to harp on Gypyx so much, was to try and create discussion around the slot in general.
I believe it should've helped all of us. If not today, then maybe tomorrow.

Una's 519 goes back to giving me bad vibes. Una's scumreads line up exactly with Hoopla's townbloc, with everyone else going 'just below the null line' at worst. That's not natural town thought. He also has much more concrete reasons for suspecting all of notscience/Gypyx/gobble, but votes renaissance for elusive reasons.

Klick assumes my lynchpool is Hooplas townblock BECAUSE they are in there.
I thought I said it from the start, but I think Hoopla is town, and the group just happens to include most all of the slots I found to be suspicious at the time.
Hence - I wanted wagons in that group and wasn't going to be too picky about who.
Mainly to get some reactions - mostly because I felt like we'd be more likely to get an actual red flip.
At the time, gobbledy/renaissance/gypyx were the ones who felt reasonable, but I didn't want Gypyx wagoned because I knew the discussion would devolve back into Traitor-talk etc.
And I felt like renaissance had just recently made the worst posts out of the two remaining.

I'm getting the vibe that if Una is scum, at least one of his partners is actually in Hoopla's townbloc.

His vote has danced around enough in that group

that there's something whack going on there.

Like said, that group is poorly formed, and just happens to include most all of my scumreads.
I bolded this part from your quote because it made me chuckle.
I had literally voted in a RvS-manner with a completely random vote for funsies, before making my first serious vote on notscience.
After that wagon didn't feel like it could be the one for today, AND I had stirred the discussion around Gypyx, I felt like Gobbledy and Renaissance were the two slots worthy of my vote.
Chose renaissance -> they replaced out.
So I move my vote to Gobbledy with the hopes that we might actually get a lynch going.

So in fact three votes, and one of the switches was "forced" by a replacement.
Talk about a misrep with that quote.

So you've reasserted this a few times now. Why do you believe it? Hoopla herself has said she plays very similarly to this as either alignment. Yet you've fairly consistently held her as 'misguided town'. Why do you townread Hoopla?
Actually looking back now,

you don't list your read on Hoopla at all in 519

...

I believe their posting has been genuine.
I believe scum!Hoopla, while able and willing to keep their allies close, wouldn't outright declare a townblock in a game where it has been specifically outed that they like to play with a close-knit group as scum.
I think their reads have some level of truth to them, even if the final assessment of alignment is wrong.
And again bolded the part with a clear mistake.
Hoopla isn't separately mentioned, but they are included just as much as everyone else in that townblock.
They included themselves in that list, and therefore they included themselves in my lynchpool for D1.

[UnaBombaH]

The site doesn't allow me to post, but whenever it will again - here we go.

^^There, and not even spoiler-tagged.
Think of that what you will.
And if you can't read that part about Hoopla being in their own list, then I guess you will find that scummy as well.

I believe Klick is either riding a wave of conf.bias throughout their catchup, or they are just scum.

One of my theories about that townbloc and how the scum in it might act, is the fact that they'd want to all "townread" Hoopla in return, and protect their own position in the group.
Even though that slot has been replaced twice already, Renaissance and Klick both fit that bill.
What I find interesting, is that there's this weird thing going on between Klicks slot, Gobbledy and notscience.

Earlier, Renaissance voted for Gobble just to vote there for a moment.

Eh, I'm out of time actually. I liked notscience's recent interactions with me a little.

VOTE: gobbled

I'm just gonna park here with some townreads for now.

Pedit: I'll be back later!

..and literally a MINUTE later..

Oh wait, this is better.
VOTE: CoolDog

Notice how in the same post where they vote for Gobble, they jam in the comment about notscience not being so scummy after all.
Then a vote, followed by an immediate change to somewhere else.
I would've loved to return to that later after some time had passed and renaissance would've probably made some other mistakes with their positioning, but didn't have a change before they had already replaced out.

Now, Klick has the opposite trajectory, where notscience ends up on the scummier side, and Gobble ends up in the townpile.
If my earlier suspicions on renaissance were correct, then Klick is more aware of where the wagons currently are, and piling on Gobbledy would legitimately risk them getting lynched today.
Meanwhile notscience doesn't have a solid wagon on them, and might also be a less likely lynch for D1 anyway.

I'm not HONESTLY thinking I have the full scumteam on lock as early as this, but I feel like there's a vibe in gobbledy-klick-notscience.
I feel like Gypyx is supposed to be dragged on for the ride, because they are more easily mislynched later.
I could be slotted in a position like that as well, but since I am very vocally questioning the townblock and specifically these few slots, I am a choice for a lynch D1.

[UnaBombaH]

Oh and @una I’m the one who said they’re town because I have townread every iteration of the slot

But of course you did.
This is gonna be a conf.biased tunnel that's hard to shake for me.

[UnaBombaH]

weak ass attacks on hoopla from una. Basically just trying to attack his way out of her scum read on him and then backing off of the attack.

Isn't this flawed from your perspective?
You just said Hoopla is scum, and even voted there.
Yet here you already slip from that narrative, since to you this scenario would be two scumbuddies acting, not me trying to "attack his way out of her scum read on him"..?

[UnaBombaH]

I mean, the chances of that being a fake claim are zero. Who the hell would think to fake claim that? Ridiculous.

I do not know how long you have been inactive, but that is not even the wildest claim I've seen and some of them turn out to be fake.
People use their imaginations and the Normal guidelines permit a lot nowadays.
Furthermore, speculating roles existance could be dangerous for town in these situations because you might end up giving the scum fakeclaim ideas..
And even more, don't be disappointed if none of those roles you specified end up being in the game.
That's just how unpredictable Normal games are now.

[UnaBombaH]

una's posting is lazy.

I'm honestly annoyed by this.
Either you do not even try reading me, or your interpretation of lazy is way different from mine.

[UnaBombaH]

Anyone else think we were closing in on scum earlier, considering there are now FOUR wagons on pretty much equal footing?
Again.
Flippynips-wagon fell apart due to the claim, obviously, but what about Gobbledy?
No claims, AND NOT MANY POSTS TO MAKE PEOPLE RECONSIDER, yet somehow it wasn't pushed through.

[UnaBombaH]

Gimme ~24h and I'll try and clear some of my reads before you hammer.
I think I might be at L-1?
And even if I'm at L-2, a combination of scummy/stubborn players have put their feet down, so I do not see myself living through this if we want a lynch.

[UnaBombaH]

Point being in less than 24 we see that prama has went from doing basically a soft chainsaw on una to going along with the wagon and downplaying the scumminess of the wagon that he mentioned previously. Very strange behavior. IF una flips scum, I think pressuring prama wouldn't be the worst idea for this post.

To be fair, AFTER I FLIP TOWN, I would suggest Prana as the emerging scum-candidate for that post.
I think they have had me as townread throughout the game(?) more or less, but that specific type of post makes me think more along the line of "knows I'm going to flip town".

[UnaBombaH]

My reads so far have been dismissed more or less, and I guess I've deserved that with my own posting then.
Like I said earlier this game, and I've said many many times in other situations as well - I think that if enough people vote to lynch me, there's something wrong with MY play as well.
That being said, I'm disappointed for not having a votecount of my wagon at it's latest peak.

I am very confident there were 1-2 scum on me at the time CoolDog joined as well.

My top guesses for scum would have to be amongst

gobbledygook, Klick, CoolDog

ON

the wagon (1-2 there), and

Prana

off the wagon with that latest post.
These are my top4 scumreads, and while I'm not saying there's literally the full team in there, I wouldn't be surprised to find 2.
Guess I gotta misread someone as town..

I truly believe

Gypyx

is noobtown, and

EmperorFlippynips

is doing Flippynips-things.
Not feeling as confident about them because some of their posts still rub me the wrong way, but wouldn't consider them too scummy either.

AGar

and

Hiraki

are likely my top townreads, and I do not see either of them being scum this game.

Bob

and

Battlemage

are both slots that have had replacements, right?
Neither has taken a solid stance on me or Gobbledy as far as I know?
I think both of them should, and if they have, I apologise for missing it.
These slots are both in the middle for me simply because I haven't got an idea on which way to lean on them yet.

Hoopla

and

notscience

are the hardest slots for me to sort right now.
I have this unnatural gutfeel and read on Hoopla being town here, and yet I do not feel my usual paranoia whenever I get one of these as early as D1.
notscience isn't "null" in the sense that I can't find anything alignment indicative about them, but more so because they have managed to come across scummy to me in the start, and yet look more towny as the game progressed. And still, I do not like the position they have amongst my scumreads, which keeps them from getting that green color in my eyes..

I guess these are as far as I can push myself slotting people D1.

[UnaBombaH]

Wait, you are actually trying to get a push on prana now?

[UnaBombaH]

I guess it was Hoopla who said it the best this game?
VOTE: PranaDevil

[UnaBombaH]

L-2 apparently

- be aware about this potentially being false since official votecount hasn't been given in a while.

[UnaBombaH]

My top guesses for scum would have to be amongst gobbledygook, Klick, CoolDog ON the wagon (1-2 there), and Prana off the wagon with that latest post.
These are my top4 scumreads, and while I'm not saying there's literally the full team in there, I wouldn't be surprised to find 2.

What happened to the townbloc being your scumpool/where you wanted to lynch today?

Gobbledy and you are both in there.
But like I said earlier, which you have fantastically misinterpreted - intentional or not - that townblock wasn't my lynchpool because it was a townblock.
Just everyone I was either scumreading or interested in resolving was in that group.
Hoopla was my least wanted lynch from that group because I believe they are town, but even them flipping D1 would've been just as fine in comparison to a lynch like gypyx in the end.
And yes, I believe gypyx was in that townblock as well, but them being the lynch would've at least removed a lynchbait from the game D1 while we are still very low on information all around.

[UnaBombaH]

i feel like for prana to be scum, he is being bussed by both members, or i have some crucial reads wrong.

HOW ABOUT THAT BEING ME. OK?

[UnaBombaH]

in a una-town universe, i think there must be something pretty wrong with my reads.

why derail a safe mislynch in una to bus prana?

What the actual cuck?
"Safe mislynch"?

[UnaBombaH]

Oh, nevermind, I get it now.
You are implicating a world where I'm town, Prana is scum, and for whatever reason scum would try to derail from me to a bus?
Yea, of course that's not what is happening.

That is exactly why I now want Prana lynched.
If they do flip town, I'd definitely agree there was scum on the wagon during that brief L-1.

[UnaBombaH]

If I'm correct here - Prana is now back to L-1.

[UnaBombaH]

Yea, I got caught in the moment instead of processing it through.
But I get your PoV.

The actual problem we have here, is that I still disagree with your reads.
You seem to think the wagon is scum-driven, while I'm starting to think the only potential busser on the wagon might've been CoolDog.
Why though?
Well, they've started to ping me more and more as scum as the day has gone forward, but furthermore - check Pranas latest post.
Their "retaliation" towards CoolDog might just as well be scum trying to fork over some distance.

Meaning that I feel quite good about lynching Prana today, and IF they flip town, at least we can both agree that there's almost certainly scum on the wagon, right?

[UnaBombaH]

Bob, BM, flippy, Una, and Prana, it's time to consolidate and join one of the two leading wagons. You haven't gotten enough going to get one of the other three wagons moving enough (and one's claiming PR), so it's time to pick your preference. Hopefully it's not Una because that wagon blows.

I was on gobbledy until I was sold the idea of a Prana-wagon.
I have absolutely no trouble seeing even both of them as scum, so I'm willing to lynch either still.
Yes, even the one claiming Watcher, since I do not think that was a particularly good claim/crumb -situation.

I'm currently doing a catchup, and all of Gobbledy, Hoopla and CoolDog just voting/unvoting left and right makes me sick.
Why would you ever try and mix up the wagons like this?
Stick to the wagon you consider the best/likeliest/scummiest, until it is driven down, or a more likely option springs up.
Don't vote anything and everything.

[UnaBombaH]

Fuck it. Who cares. Better no lynch than to lynch an investigation power roke

Like..is this even true?
From what I've come to understand, no lynching benefits scum all the way until there's no kill..?

Something about odds and evens, can't remember exactly how it was told to me back in the day.
But apparently it plays a big enough role for people to advocate against no lynching until it's evens in lategame or something.

[UnaBombaH]

VOTE: gobbledygook

This town is the prime example of too many chefs in the kitchen and that is why it will lose.

I am town, but as Day 1 honor party thanksgiving dinner, I claim no part in the ensuing chaos.
But I will claim that win if we get one.

Well, after seeing this I do not need much more to move back on to you..
Self-voting is not cool and towny.

[UnaBombaH]

Town
Hoops
Agar
Cooldog
Gyp
Nippyflips
Klick
Bob

I don’t wanna Lynch any of these people

Wow.
So close to being 7/7, I think.

[UnaBombaH]

I’d rather not Lynch una or gobbles either.

I don’t think a hiraki prana bm team makes sense does it?

You're gonna have to lynch "Gobbles" if you're not lynching me.
Or at least that's what it looks like now.

Hiraki-Prana-BM makes sense to me as much as CoolDogs recent crazytrain-voting.

[UnaBombaH]

OK, I'm caught up.
Apparently we are now committing to Una vs Gobbledy, and one of us is selfvoting..?`
Good job anyone who doesn't vote Gobbledy after that.
/s

VOTE: GobbledyGook - I really think Prana would've flipped scum, and we gave up way too easily based on a claim that didn't feel natural.

[UnaBombaH]

VOTE: Una


I think ill go with gamblers fallacy today

Have you explained your "gamblers fallacy" regarding me?
I feel like you must be using it incorrectly here..

[UnaBombaH]

By my count gobble's at L-1.

This really doesn't feel like it y'all. Last chance to flip it around to Una. No one has any reason to townread him, and I tend to be right when I feel this confident about scum early on.

Well, what might make you feel even more sad, is that you might not only be wrong about me, but also about gobble.

I still think gobble and prana both make a lot of sense as scum, and NOT taking any preflip-assumptions into consideration.

Also dislike your not so subtle way to tell a narrative here -

"no one has any reason to townread him"

.
Does that mean you are devaluing everyones tone- / context-reads on me, or are you literally saying there shouldn't objectively be a reason for anyone to townread me?

[UnaBombaH]

Towns way more likely to self vote than scum barring investigative wsults

It's still anti-town.
It's either giving up, or scum pulling AtE.
Either way, it doesn't help town at all.

[UnaBombaH]

It Gobble flips town, I'm gonna reread their D1 with the thought they are town, and potentially only misread me.
That's how the game evolves after we get flips.

[UnaBombaH]

Got a fruit.

[UnaBombaH]

Also guys, I'm not sure but I think you just misread Pranas post.

[UnaBombaH]

Before anyone goes "What did Prana do?"

I watched Flippy in case his claim was true, and somebody tried to off him

, nobody else visited him last night.

That one comma probably threw everyone off, because it did me too when I read it quickly..

[UnaBombaH]

Btw guys - I assume Flippy will arrive to the thread while I'm away and guarantee to everyone that I have 0% weapon in me.
Meaning I'm an inno for today

Finnish midsummer (Juhannus ) is a national holiday for mandatory alcohol abuse, so

I will be more or less completely away for friday-saturday-sunday.

I'll be checking the thread once I'm completely certain I'm still alive and not drunk anymore.

Peace and Love - UnaB

[UnaBombaH]

Btw guys - I assume Flippy will arrive to the thread while I'm away and guarantee to everyone that I have 0% weapon in me.
Meaning I'm an inno for today

Finnish midsummer (Juhannus ) is a national holiday for mandatory alcohol abuse, so

I will be more or less completely away for friday-saturday-sunday.

I'll be checking the thread once I'm completely certain I'm still alive and not drunk anymore.

Peace and Love - UnaB

So you're confirming Flippy's claim? Excellent

Well, obviously there could be other fruit-vending action in the works as well, but I did receive a fruit.
No flavor or anything.
Just that I received a fruit.

[UnaBombaH]

So we're ignoring the bit where he explicitly claimed that 'somebody tried to off him'?

Somebody explain this interpretation to me reeeeally slowly because I'm not seeing it at all

PLEASE, read before posting.

Before anyone goes "What did Prana do?"

I watched Flippy in case his claim was true, and somebody tried to off him

, nobody else visited him last night.

That one comma probably threw everyone off, because it did me too when I read it quickly..

That first bolded part is meant to be one thought. The combination of that comma+"and" alters the meaning.
Maybe it's easier for me to see since english isn't my native language at all, but that's the way I saw it after blinking twice.
I initially read it the same as you.

[UnaBombaH]

Im a bit put off from caring about this atm when I try to read the game and interpret things to the best ofy ability and get condescending bullshit from Una+Prana in response

I'm sorry if you misread that as condescending.
I was just a bit annoyed, because it really seemed to me like you were pulling a stupid reason to scumread Prana out of you know where.

Also - I'm not sold on town!Prana yet.
Their "result"/result is one thing, but my read on them so far doesn't change at all from that.

I'm considering a few options because of that no-kill.
IF we have a roleblocker, I'd even consider outing that to get a soft guilty? No?
It would've meant that we got extremely lucky, but that's what happens sometimes, I guess.

[UnaBombaH]

If I was a doc, I was protecting Prana last night. If Prana was town, she could obviously watch Nips, and so scum couldnt kill him anyway. Therefore scum would have to target Prana. Additionally, if Prana was scum, she couldnt kill Nips anyway because she would be lynched today unless she faked a guilty.

This is correct.

[UnaBombaH]

But now - to every-fking-one of you here.
I'm off to start preparing for my "getting blasted" extravaganza.
I'm normally a social butterfly, and all this social distancing has been a pain in the ass, so meeting my closest friends (responsible setup, trust me )for the first time in a long time makes me giddy already.

See you later!

[UnaBombaH]

I would have watched Agar, but because notscience so kindly made a thing about it in thread, it turned the whole fucking thing into a WIFOM deal. And he fucking knows it.

You're either scum or just objectively WRONG here.
If the scum leave the roleblocker alive, they risk missing another nightkill.
And since they are more or less forced to kill there, you'd get a result.
Deciding not to target AGar is 100% the wrong choice, and obv. especially now that we have seen the end result there's no "if"s about it.

My point might as well be on Prana right now, but I intend to read/write something before.

[UnaBombaH]

if flippy is town then its likely una and bm are town.

No, IF flippy is town, we are all town. (barring scum!Doc but that is pointless to talk today)

AND IF FLIPPY IS SCUM, EVEN THEN ONE OF ME/BM IS TOWN, so that discussion is also pointless today.

We lynch Prana to push the PoE forward, and you can all ISO me if they flip scum.
So far it seems at least some of my earlier reads were correct.

[UnaBombaH]

AGar was more or less conf!town the second Klick flipped Red.
Plus they were our protective AND had shown good instinct with their N1 result. Versus Prana being unconfirmed and even with a claimed guilty today could be counterlynched.. Scum were already in a bad spot, and they didn't want to do either, but had to pick one.
Also, I'd argue Occams suggests scum didn't have to fear a Watcher, because Prana is scum.

[UnaBombaH]

I fail to see how lynching Prana progresses any PoE - it's about the least informative lynch we could muster. Just a hope and prayer it flips red.

Absolutely not true.
If Prana flip town, there's scum on the wagon as of now, guaranteed.
And you have a conf.town in me and BM.
And I had a scumread on Prana anyway.
I see no reason why they shouldn't be the lynch today.

[UnaBombaH]

I still think there's no need to rush the lynch though.
Let's all compare notes while we're here.

[UnaBombaH]

It's a little beyond midnight here though, so I'm off to bed first.

[UnaBombaH]

Una, you should know better, you're doing the same shit that you did with me last game, and it's fucking stupid. Join me in lynching obv-scum in Hoopla.

No Prana, YOU should know better.
You made a poor choice with your nightactions, and everything you say here only further shows your twisted PoV on the matter.

Do not consider what anyone else says for a moment, and tell me two things.

1. Why did scum kill AGar last night?
2. Who was their only other reasonable kill last night, and why?

[UnaBombaH]

Why is BattleMage being rude and obnoxioud to people?

[UnaBombaH]

1 - Because they WIFOM'd well.

No. You are trying to give WIFOM way too much priority here.
They killed AGar because there was a real risk of missing a second nightkill in a row.
Assuming you are town, their only risk was you targeting AGar, WHICH YOU SHOULD'VE DONE.
Which leads to my second question, and your poor answer to it.

2 - You. Because you are confirmed town.

Why am I confirmed town?
What about a scenario where Flippy is a scum!fruit-vendor and the Gunsmith-talk is either nonsense or makes no difference?
Scumteam of Flippy-Una-Klick was theoretically still possible, until we heard today that Flippy now has a second result as well, and that makes at least one of us certainly town.
But you didn't KNOW that before today, did you?
In fact, we had only ONE conf.town before this day-phase, and that was AGar FROM THE MOMENT Klick flipped red.

AND I WANT EVERYONE TO PAY ATTENTION HERE.

Scum might've missed another nightkill tonight no matter what.
Unless I'm mistaken, AGar could've technically saved themself with a well-targeted block last night anyway?
AND there was the added CERTAINTY that Prana will catch whoever does the kill, because they'd be watching.
So unless scum had a roleblocker on Prana AND AGar, we would've possibly survived another night without a kill and/or gotten a guilty.

SO WHAT MAKES MATTERS EVEN WORSE FOR PRANA?

Prana claims to have gotten a result. No one visited me last night.
Meaning that scum didn't roleblock Prana.
Meaning that scum risked missing a kill + GETTING GUILTIED in the process.

Prana is not a town!Watcher because their perspective is totally flawed in this matter.
And even if they are, refusing to be leashed on the only target that mattered last night gives enough room for doubt for the rest of the game.
And THAT is the WIFOM-part of it all - leaving Prana alive based on their claim.

[UnaBombaH]

And I think it is interesting that scum would be bold enough to try and kill agar over you. If you are town then I would have run into serious risk of getting guiltied.


The highest risk role to scum last night was you. And if you were not scum. Then scum would know that. Thus they would know 2.5 of the town roles. And I really don't think they would take the greater risk of guitied by known pr over there kill failing trying to kill you.

When a combo of roleblocker, doc, and watcher would be highly unlikely.

Yes, this is the townie PoV.

[UnaBombaH]

No - why doesn't he target Agar, then say that Hoopla is on Agar.

Because then it's a fakeclaim that gets Prana 100% killed.
Now there's this 5% window that even you are considering.

I'm starting to believe that Prana is just VI and not scum because the scum motivations for this move are becoming ever increasingly small. At the same time, the town motivations for this move are also very small.

Think of it like this - if scum!Prana claims to have targeted AGar, and seen someone - they would get killed 100% of the time after the guilty is proven false.
If Prana claims to have been blocked, it's pretty much the same as it is now, but it raises the questions of why Flippy wasn't blocked N1, why AGar would'nt have been blocked N2 to be sure, etc etc.
It also awakens the thought process of "we should just make sure and lynch Prana today because we won't be getting a result from them anymore".
So they decided to take cover behind the talk of WIFOM, and having an obv.town in me.

But read what I posted earlier.
I was objectively less of a conf.town last night than AGar was, AND AGar had a powerful role for scum to want neutralized.
What Prana is saying might come across as a "stubborn VI" sure, but that is also the only reasonable escape-path for scum!Prana at this point.

[UnaBombaH]

Do you think we should consider mass claiming?

Not at this point, no.

[UnaBombaH]

I sometimes wonder...is it possible I COULD be helpful every game?

[UnaBombaH]

Also...there might come a time when I might be the only one not wanting you dead Hoopla.

[UnaBombaH]

BTW, where the hell is CoolDoG?
I definitely want their stance on things before we end the day.

[UnaBombaH]

Once Prana flips red, the last scum is in notscience / CoolDoG / Battle Mage / Hoopla.
Roughly in that order - Battle Mage potentially being a scum!Doc has been in my mind ever since Flippy claimed. (but like said, not a discussion for today)
That's still a pool of four, so I need to do better, but there's still the off-chance that Prana flips green, so I'm holding my breath until I see the results.

UnaB, Hiraki, Flippy, bob are my lock-towns.
Kudos to any and all of them for their performance if they end up being scum!

Gypyx is the remaining slot, and I do not like the fact that they went from looking like scum, to looking like a VI, to being non-existent in this game.
They are the flippy-flop that scum want in LyLo if they ever get there - it's been written on the wall ever since D1.

[UnaBombaH]

Erm..

Who said scum had a roleblocker to begin with? I have not seen that mentioned anywhere...

That's the only thing you found worth commenting on from what I said? Really?
The speculation about a potential scum!Roleblocker is there in my post only to show you, that EVEN IF scum would have a roleblocker, it would've been best for the town!Watcher to watch AGar.
The more you keep arguing against that point, or try to redirect my points to something else, the more I feel like you are just scum and made an error with your fakeclaim.

Fucking hell Una...

BM was confirmed safe by Flippy.

Nope, not for 100% certain to me.
I believe in "soft" guilties and innos with roles like Flippys.
And my read on Battle Mage, unfortunately, is still wavering a little.
Same way you can all still call me +90% town if you want to - I am not absolutely and undeniably conf.town yet.
But one of Una/Flippy/BM is, and from there we can draw some conclusions, so splitting hairs isn't absolutely necessary today either.

Hoopla and notscience and are the scummiest here. Hoopla for trying to out PRs all game, and notscience for deliberately setting it up to WIFOM my slot.

If you flip green, I promise these are the two slots I am going after as well.
And if you flip red, I feel like my read on Hoopla was correct all along, and I'll continue my PoE from there.

[UnaBombaH]

Scum!Watcher is not impossible.

[UnaBombaH]

Man, you really are trying to paint a picture, rather than talk about things the way they are.
You were "forced" to claim, truthful or fake, when you were close to being lynched.

[UnaBombaH]

I'm cop-confirmed town dude.

You've been confirmed not to have a gun.
Mafia!Doctor doesn't have a gun for gunsmith to see.
So no, neither of us is "cop confirmed".

[UnaBombaH]

we need a scum flip to restore some faith that we're on the right track, rather than deal with a low percentage conspiracy.

So uhh.. You sort of keep saying these things that sometimes lowkey seem like they come from a scum-perspective..
I'd argue that the scum need a townflip to restore some faith, considering how we lynched one scum yesterday..?

[UnaBombaH]

I know, I know.
It just seems weird saying that we need a scumflip to restore faith, considering that we have avoided one nightkill, and lynched correctly 1/2.
I'd call that a good start.

[UnaBombaH]

I really, REALLY want Prana lynched today.
Because if they do end up flipping town, I want notscience and rope to start hanging around more..

[UnaBombaH]

me and unabombah are the inno-investigations of EmpFlippynips

Empreror Flippynips has claimed Combined Fruit Vendor Gunsmith (not with those words exactly maybe?), where he sends his target a fruit, and also sees if they have a gun or not.
I got fruit N1, and immediately claimed it.
Flippy confirmed I do not have a gun.
Battle Mage got the fruit N2, and Flippy confirmed they do not have a gun either.

PranaDevil has claimed Watcher, and claims to have watched Flippy N1 - didn't see anyone.
Claims to have watched me N2 - didn't see anyone.

AGar claimed to have roleblocked Klick N1, and since there was no kill, we lynched Klick.
Got a red flip. At this point it was openly said that our claimed Watcher should watch AGar N2 as to make sure scum couldn't freely kill our roleblocker.
This was obviously before the redflip, but with the assumption that once we get a redflip, AGar is the most valuable target for scum to neutralize and an actual conf.town to us.

Hence why I for one don't want to not lynch Prana today.
Last night was their chance to more or less prove their role and potentially get a guilty for us, but they didn't.
They called it WIFOM by notscience who openly tried to leash Prana onto AGar.
They still insist they didn't make a mistake, and act as if their play wasn't supremely sub-optimal for town.

[UnaBombaH]

No. No it isn't. The case on me is "That's a claimed Watcher, lynch them". That's the entirety of it.

notscience turned my role into a WIFOM hellhole that allowed him to push my lynch regardless.

Prana, I absolutely do not want this to be a heated argument, but you are objectively WRONG here.
AGar was the only thing that mattered.
NO MATTER WHO SAID WHAT FOR "WIFOM".
AGar had soft-guiltied a scum that we lynched, and who indeed flipped red.
AT THAT POINT YOU WATCH THEM. NO IFS OR BUTS.

If they had killed me?
Fine, you'd likely see no one visiting AGar, and I'm dead. SO WHAT?
AGar would've still gotten one more chance to roleblock a killer.
Not a likely shot to land, I know, but still a higher real estate than me being soft-inno'd at that point.
And the same goes for every single one of the rest of us.
Had scum shot Flippy, or...hmmmm...YOU(??) as the claimed Watcher, the end result would've still been the same.
And to make matters worse, scum DID do the one thing they were obviously gonna do, and you weren't there to see it.
So do not try and defend your actions here.

[UnaBombaH]

I DID, however, state the scum would likely assume I would be on Agar, and so went for the next most confirmed town, Una. Because they weren't killing me while they feel they can make me be an easy mislynch.

Again, this already is false thinking.
If you are really town, you'd KNOW that scum KNOW you are town, and therefore could even accidentally provide town with a guilty.
Especially since their next few targets are more or less spelled out for us anyway.
You talking about how they'd keep you around for a mislynch is flawed, since they'd keep you around and risk being guiltied the next night anyway.

And therefore I was never their 2nd-best target after AGar.
It was you.
I know, you can't watch yourself and even less report about it, but that should've made you NOT target the 3rd target in me/Flippy, but instead AGAIN, went with the obvious #1 in AGar.

End of discussion.

[UnaBombaH]

theres also an argument for giving them both another night to see what happens. its not like tomorrow is lylo if we mislynch.

Then the only lynch I'd "accept" for today is on notscience.
But since Prana is on them, I'm not even seriously considering it.

And assume we mislynch today.
Tomorrow you'll wake up to me being dead, and Prana with another non-result.
Or in the unlikely scenario where Prana is town, you'd wake up to Battle Mage dead, and Prana with another non-result.
So you'd end up lynching them tomorrow anyway.
Scum seem to have a peculiar skill in targeting someone other than who Prana watches.....

There you'd still have the off-chance of Flippy+BattleMage or Flippy+Una depending on which of them is still alive.
The only unconfirmed but almost obvious townie is Hiraki at that point.
Hoopla is considered lynch-worthy by quite a few (I still think they are silly, but town)
Micc is the new Gypyx who I deemed would be the LyLo-mislynch target for scum to use (although I do think having Micc there now should help us a lot)
I think notscience is easily still on the scummier side of null, and should definitely be the lynch tomorrow if Prana ends up flipping town.

So if we do not lynch Prana today, the pressure and risk are going to be way higher for tomorrow, with the assumed town-cohesion being quite low as well.

[UnaBombaH]

You are pushing to lynch a fucking claimed PR, with no counter claim, despite evidence I AM what I claim to be, and the fact we have people like Hoopla who spent D1 trying to out PRs.

You have to non-results.
No evidence whatsoever.

[UnaBombaH]

Really? "I" am their next best target? With at least 2 town clearly willing to piss the game up the wall by lynching me, possibly three by the looks of it?

At this position, if I catch scum, you numpties would tell me I'm clearly lying and lynch me first anyway. Scum also know this.

BUT WE WOULD CATCH SCUM.
If you end up being town here, I am very disappointed in how you view this matter.

[UnaBombaH]

That is not a confirmed town slot, not the way they are twisting and lying about shit, that's one of the three scummy slots. You are just giving them a free pass because they are focused on me. Step back, assume I'm town (because.. y'know, I fucking am), and re-read their posts today... that's not town posting.

No, you go check my ISO.
I've had them as town for a lot longer than I've had you as scum.
And if that wasn't apparent before, at least now I have said it.

[UnaBombaH]

And when you do lynch me today, you piss a PR up the wall, deliberately and knowingly, and so when we fail as town, we know where to point the finger. The tunnelling town who allowed themselves to be steered by scum.

I'm not steered by scum, so unless you call me scum...? Town isn't "steered" by scum into lynching you.
Your own actions are leading us down this path.

Had you targeted AGar as you obviously should've, and had you even claimed a "no result" (=blocked), even then I wouldn't have been all over you today.
Because at least then, your actions would've been reasonable.
As things are now, your actions fit way too well into what scum would do with your role.

[UnaBombaH]

And ffs.
Even if you weren't a Watcher, but still scum.
Your actions aren't as impressive as you make them sound.

N1 - you claimed no one targeted Flippy.
What role could've/would've targeted Flippy at that point?
He was a claimed PR, so no town-blockers obv.
Potentially a Watcher - but you already knew there was no counterclaim to yours - so not that either.
I could've only been a town!protective, or a straight-up Cop - EITHER OF WHICH you would've been happy to out if you had shitty luck.
Furthermore - scum would've known that there had been no protective on Flippy N1 if they tried to kill someone else, and wake up to a no-kill.

Your N1 action-claim would've been almost a freebie to scum anyway.

And your N2 action?
Scum now had the information where the protective was in AGar, and they already knew I had gotten a fruit.
Therefore targeting me became the "freebie" action to claim. Why would anyone target me N2?

[UnaBombaH]

If Prana flips scum, I honestly think the CoolDoG-slot is our last one remaining.
If Prana flips green, I want notscience powerlynched tomorrow, and I might've been wrong about my Hoopla-read.
Or it's still just the CoolDog-slot.

[UnaBombaH]

You are town, being steered by scum.

Hiraki, Hoopla, and notscience. One of those, at a bare minimum, is scum. You are following them. You are being steered by scum.

I. Am. Not. Being. Steered.
If none of them were on you today, I'd still be on you for your claimed actions, and the fact that I had you pegged as scum D1.
Go check if you don't remember.

[UnaBombaH]

So, tell me why scum-Prana announces they protected you. I'll wait.

Well, I'm not sure where you suddenly got the "protect" from..?

Any and either way - I'm done having this discussion with you.
You haven't budged at all, or tried to make an actually reasonable argument for why you are town here.
Your only shield is your claim, and it's full of holes and made of paper.

[UnaBombaH]

The only reason I'm not voting Prana yet is because I don't want them to selfvote for the hammer before we habe a replacement for CoolDoG.
But I am done replying to them now.

[UnaBombaH]

Ah, we're finally back.
Can't press enough how happy I am with these last two red flips.
Not sure how I feel about that Backup-Roleblocker - claim, but I guess they'd have no reason to lie either.

[UnaBombaH]

Thanks to everyone for the game!
Special Thanks to brassherald for solid modding and stellar flavor!

This was an important game for me personally as I feel like I've gotten shafted in all of my games ever since I had my winning streak end and I took my hiatus.
Whatever the setups and reasonings, at least my reads were good.

Special mention to Prana who almost AtE'd me into submission.
Had their PoV and agenda been different last day, I likely wouldn't have tunneled them the way I did.

I had a similar read on Hoopla as I do on few other players on this site as well. I'm curious whether I've found a player I actually understand, but I look forward to playing with them in the future. Guess I'll see it then.

Town got lucky this game.
AGaR hitting scum N1 was not luck, it was an amazing insight.
And the snowball it create is the reason we ended up winning.
But Town got lucky because we had such a wide variety of good players who were able towntell and communicate together to put it all together.

[UnaBombaH]

Okay then, AGar played like shit and I'm done being nice.

[UnaBombaH]

No, seriously though, I think you played very well, and whether you admit it or not, I'm certain you had an gutfeel that you followed.

[UnaBombaH]

Also, as to flavor, this started at a heavy time, so I wanted it to be light.

You're one of the players that I remember by name from my earlier games, and I rarely remember anyone by anything other than their avatars.

You've also shown to be a class-act with good consideration and taste with your modding-decisions this game.
Good job!

[UnaBombaH]

You should of killed flippy night 2

Scum shouldn't have killed Flippy because that would've confirmed me.
They should've killed me, and kept Flippy alive for WIFOM. (scum-fruit vendor)
Prana could've claimed a watch on AGaR = the likeliest target to die, and they'd have a different game.

I mean, unless AGaR would've landed another Block.

[UnaBombaH]

I read Bob as locktown and a potential PR btw, but I'm not sure what I would've thought about a Backup-RB - claim.
I think I really liked this setup.

[UnaBombaH]

They are the flippy-flop that scum want in LyLo if they ever get there - it's been written on the wall ever since D1.

Funnily enough, this was indeed what scum would've wanted for LyLo.
Reading the scumthread, I think they had a bit too much focus on roles - claims and actions - instead of building a consistent gameplan.
I'm thinking this was going to be a Town win even with no kills being blocked..

[UnaBombaH]

This flippy character - he has brains.

[UnaBombaH]

Btw peeps, we should totally fill out the next Mini Normal asap..