Mini Normal 2146: Cute Pets Game Over, Town wins

[bob3141]

so can the main proponents of the leading wagons explain the case

And can the leading opponents explain the case against the wagons

[bob3141]

so can the main proponents of the leading wagons explain the case

And can the leading opponents explain the case against the wagons

Perhaps you can start by going one better than your predecessor, and explaining your vote on me?

How can i explain someone elses vote Im not a mind reader.


UNVOTE:

[bob3141]

so can the main proponents of the leading wagons explain the case

And can the leading opponents explain the case against the wagons

Perhaps you can start by going one better than your predecessor, and explaining your vote on me?

How can i explain someone elses vote Im not a mind reader.


UNVOTE:

don't ask me, ask Notscience - he gave me that treatment when I replaced in too.

Do i have to hold a card to my head.


Your card is the jack of spades

[bob3141]

@notscience

Why'd you unvote? Do you suddenly think Turkey McScumfuck is town now? Is it based off of Gypyx's hesitance than vote? Why do you think that makes that S/T and not possibly S/S? What is your read on Una? Because if you think Turkey is town, and gypyx is scum, I want to know your read on the 3rd critical party to this whole mess.

So far from reading back from my last posts, up to the last post. Still to read the thread before then, wil do this weekend when i have time. Until then it just current affairs

But what is your read of him based on this. My gut feeling is that this post is more pressure to keep the gooble lynch going rather than you trying to sort notscience.


So do you town read or scum read science.


If you town read him then why attack him for unvotign rather than instead trying to push your case on gooble.

If scum then why do you appear to be more asking his opinion then pushign him to as why he unvoted.

[bob3141]

I'm assuming:

Emperor Flippynips
Unabombah
Gobbledygook
Hoopla
Klick

are all town.

easy game so far.

This is bad posting.

All three of my scum reads are on this list.

Who are your other sr’s besides me?

I'm still happy with Flippy, Hoopla or the Turkey at this stage.

Not the hardest reads to find considering I've deliberately not been pumping my post count through the roof by posting utter garbage posts like some people have been, nor splitting my responses to a handful of posts up into multiple responses when it could go into one post for easier ISO'ing later.

how about we all attempt a flippy speedlynch instead of dancing around the topic? seems like it's on everyone's mind.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: flippy nips

This is interesting too...

Hoopla says she wants a lynch decided by halfway through the day.... and now shifts where there is an actual wagon away to someone who is no longer being wagoned... that does not add up either.

I think I'm confident on my Hoopla Scum feeling and the fact she's trying to pull attention away from the turkey makes me happier there. I'm less certain about Flippy though considering that's where she's pushing now, but that could be a double bluff, and that gets into WIFOM territory right now, so I won't think much beyond it. I'm even happier about the roast dinner now than I was before though.

The premise of this posts makes no sense. Feels to much liek its been run through the wrangler to get desired position rather than an organic conclusion.


First bit looks like a indirect attempt to shade a persons posts and posts in the thread in general that differ from his projected view point. Feels like an attempt to marginalise players of different view points without even emphasizing rather than directly challenging them.




The second is just plain illogical. Making the fact a player might want another lynch to the one going a scummy thing feels liek a reach. Quite often a player will want another lynched simply because they feel better about the lynch. Its seems the player is trying to form a connection based on two unkowns.

Now if gooble had already flipped scum. Then maybe a push way would be suspect. But at the moment it just looks liek scum trying to push a scum case by trying to throw possible scum teams out there. Somethign ive seen done sveral times when town was on teh verge of mislynching. Or even about to lynch scum and they use the partner case. to guess what move teh lynch to the accused partner.


I will have to look at the gooble case but im not liking this ropping in of other players during such an early phase when we have no flips.

Why are you so sure this is s/s with no potential to be s/t. Ive pleanty of times town push against the the scum lynch.

[bob3141]

will be doing my catchup starting after the last day of my working week tomorrow.

[bob3141]

The Una wagon looks to me to be built by all town. In Una wagon I trust

I have asthma and was having an allergic attack apparently

So why do you trust it based on the fact you think its all town? Although you claim to town read those players why do you trust their reads.

As it seems your more trying to use your claims of town reads to further push the counter wagon to you.

As i have often town manage to stack up 5 votes on another town slot.



You have pushed a scum case against una. But what do you think of NS and hoopla read on una.

[bob3141]

And kilck

to be clear this isnt a question on if you think their read leads to town or scum lean but what you think on solidity of the reads it self.


Which bits do you agree with. And the bist athat although youagree on the conclusion you think is wrong

[bob3141]

after doing outside work cleaning up construction materials.

fuck it

VOTE: una

If una is town then this is rather scummy vote.

[bob3141]

after doing outside work cleaning up construction materials.

fuck it

VOTE: una

If una is town then this is rather scummy vote.

X

no.

sorry, not allowed.

i'm revoking your shade-throwing privileges until you actually take a stance on these wagons and make a vote.

what shade? Simply pointing out if una is town. Now i will admit ive not caught up to properly read una yet. But cso far i dont think cool/una is t/t. Nor likely s/s


besides i already have taken stances. Mostly on town reads.


prety sure your town and got slight town read on agar. klict sounds towny

but i do think there is one scum in gooble and pan. so thats another realtionship i think is t/s. Leaning on prana

[bob3141]

prana interesting that you would pick that out. Only after two other playesr but ignor my posts for you entirely

VOTE: Prana

[bob3141]

Alternatively is there is a bus vote on it and prana is scum it’s likely late on the wagon.

i can see a bob/prana scumteam actually. the zeitgeist at the time of bob's prana vote was a turkey/una dichotomy. if they're both town, vanity voting on your buddy and not getting your hands dirty on a town mislynch when you assume either could go through, is easily within the scum playbook.

If it comes between a tie break between una and gobble i'm not sure who i would pick as im simply not caught up well enough. I could certainly see una and pran being a scum team. But that was based on a few posts that felt to me that prana was more pushing against una scum read for position purposes. Than a genuine townie reasoning. At the time it did feel like a buddy trying to take the pressure of their scum buddy and keep the google lynch going.

Combined with the fact that prana only really reacted to my questioning of him after I had voted for him.

[bob3141]

i feel like for prana to be scum, he is being bussed by both members, or i have some crucial reads wrong.

Who do you think that is?
Do you believe Flippy’s claim?

also, if I die tonight, please lynch gypyx tomorrow!

1. Why Gypyx?
2. Why do you think you’re going to die?
3. This post is mega ew

——

Oddly enough, I think I am coming around to Agar town. I think I mistook his aggression and pushy nature to be scum posturing, but I think that’s just his nature and he just pushing bad takes.

I liked agar response to my questioning of him over your wagon. What did you feel about his answer there?


p.s. if your wondering where all my typos have gone. Ive started using google docs to spell check again

[bob3141]

UNVOTE:

I do not see the benefit of lynching prana today in light of the claim.

Either he is town and we lose a pr or he is scum and we will have better info to determine that in later days.

If he is scum it also prevents another scum from easily fake claiming as well.

So at best a pran lynch is neutral today. At worst we kill town pr.

[bob3141]

I would want to leave prana till tommorrow and see what he claims his results are.

More flips will leave us better informed of how likely his role is


If he is scum i would rather pick out for today someone who could be his partner

[bob3141]

also watcher claim, i think that's a powerful role, is it common for scum to claim high power roles like that?

how about a flash wagon on gyp


VOTE: Gyp


His interactions with the prana claim makes me feel he knows if it is true or not

[bob3141]

I don't have time right now for a big writeup. But there isn't much lost by leaving him alive for now if he's scum, whereas if he's town lynching him would obviously be bad because we'd be losing a strong PR.

Bob is very invested in looking for any possible wagon that isn't Una/gobble.

dont get me wrong. today out of gooble, una and prana count my vote una today.


I feel like its time for gambler fallacy.


But first want to tease wagons got get as much info as possible

[bob3141]

I would want to leave prana till tommorrow and see what he claims his results are.

More flips will leave us better informed of how likely his role is


If he is scum i would rather pick out for today someone who could be his partner

hypothetical situation:

- we don't lynch prana, and mislynch elsewhere
- random townie dies N1 (say me, for example)
- on D2, prana-scum claims he watched some other townie visit me N1
- mislynch townie D2

all of a sudden, you've let scum dodge two mislynches, because the town didn't have the cajones to make a tough choice on D1

~~

the primary utility of an investigation role is that its hidden and can collect results. its been exposed - if it is town, it has little to no value now.

another possibility: what if he's town and scum has a RB and prana claims no results? that would look awfully suspicious on D2 and we end up mislynching then in an ill-fated game of wifom, when we should be dealing with it today.

but if its town then scum will resolve the slot for us. Scum cant afford not to kill a watcher.

And if its scum it will give us associations

[bob3141]

prana out of gooble and una. who would you vote for.

AS clearly if you are town then you wouldnt want to get lynched. As you would be confirmed to yourself.

And a vanity vote on hoopla woudl only end in your lynch. So if you were town wouldnt you join a viable wagon

[bob3141]

no bob gyps newbtown hes been doing stuff like that all game hes obsessed with game theory

ok then if he is newb then i migth have overread him. To often i read into playesr trying to do gambits

[bob3141]

Ive seen one a few games ago.

Now the question is. Is prana realy a watcher and is he town.

Now i would bet we likely only have one investigative. So if anythign like tracker, rolecop ect. flips then he is prob lying

But one thing is for sure i dont think we shouldnt risk it today as I doubt if he is town watcher. That there is a backup to that role.

[bob3141]

VOTE: Una


I think ill go with gamblers fallacy today

[bob3141]

Prana why do you think teh watcher role is useless.

As the only difference to beign outed and not beign outed is in relation to the nk.


AS you seem to be setting an out for yourself. Let me guess tommorrow you will be claiming you were rb?

[bob3141]

If the kill was blocked then thats a good indication that the blocked player was scum.

If some claims roleblocker then ill back up their vote with mine.

[bob3141]

Ive seen several scum watchers before.

For scum to have a watcher it would mean we have full roster of visiting roles. and we have 2 confirmed

flipys role. And a role that blocks a kill.

My gut says its a roleblocker as if we had a doc/rolestopper this game it would prob of been on flippy

[bob3141]

Ive seen several scum watchers before.

For scum to have a watcher it would mean we have full roster of visiting roles. and we have 2 confirmed

flipys role. And a role that blocks a kill.

My gut says its a roleblocker as if we had a doc/rolestopper this game it would prob of been on flippy

Prana's role is more powerful than Flippy's. If they're both town, I guess maybe scum gambled? A doctor is WAY more likely than a roleblocker, given the roleblocker would have a slimmer chance of success, Doc would be 50-50 at worst given lack of big brains on red team.

This is teh thing the odds of a doc/rolestopper protecting prana is very low.

Prana was heavily scum read and only saved by his claim.

zippy is one shot cop with good odds of making a clear. A player who after his role claim was widely town read.


While prana still was.

[bob3141]

9/10 the doc always protects zippy.

And as klict said. scum would need something to balance. And most options end with a town watcher being killed. As the most likely one is strongman

[bob3141]

So battle are you saying that your claiming doc?

[bob3141]

Battle if your not a doc. Then why are you keep trying to claim that a doc would protect prana. When most players infact scum read prana. Thus most docs woudlnt protect prana as they would simply think it woudl be waste.

Thus scum would know this. So a doc never stops the kill unless prana is scum.

looks to me your just trying to shade the meaning of any roleblockers action.



The roleblocker has certainly found a guilty.


And even if prana is a town watcher. Its still best play for the roleblocker to claim who they blocked and we lynch them.

If prana is town. scum have to kill the watcher to get at the rb.


If prana is scum then he has to fake a guilty. 2 scum down for 1 mislynch. and the usual nightkills

leavign us with one mislynch left and still have the chance a rb stops a second night kill

[bob3141]

Bob, I've explained logically why you're wrong. I'm not claiming doc, and I don't care to speculate about a potential roleblocker. dont know what your game is here.

Explain no kill then if your not a doc then?

Who did scum try to kill and why would the doc protect them.


In this game a doc means a a scum prana.

And the nigth kill was almsot certainly stopped by a roleblocker.

rb also has higher odds of stopping a kill than doc.



Explain why prana wouldnt of been killed. When the odds are almost no player in this game would protect him

[bob3141]

If a game had watcher and doc. Prana woudl still of died as to balance scum would need a strongman

[bob3141]

dude, ive explained this already. if there's a doc, they would have protected prana. that is obvious. doc has higher odds of stopping an NK than rb when the target is highly predictable.

I don't know how you've managed to get this so wrong.

Explain who trys to protect prana. When most think he is scum and thus wouldnt protect him.


A doc does not keep someone who they think is scum alive.

12 players alive and one is prana

11 players

3-4 called for his lynch regardless of his claim.
3-4 only didnt vote because of his claim.

[bob3141]

VOTE: prana devil

Why choose to watch the one play sure to get nightkilled

[bob3141]

Gut instinct is that flippy is town.

klick comments towards flippy dont read as s/s

if flippy is town then its likely una and bm are town.

As scum would need a doc to get any false clears. And that usual happens in games town has a vig

[bob3141]

VOTE: prana devil

Why choose to watch the one play sure to get nightkilled

Because if Una gets nightkilled, I get to know who it is.

I would have watched Agar, but because notscience so kindly made a thing about it in thread, it turned the whole fucking thing into a WIFOM deal. And he fucking knows it.

So let's see... Hoopla/notscience as scum? I could see that. But maybe it would be way too blatant.

So I'm positive one is scum, and the other is budding them for town cred at this stage.

Both, however, are doing their damndest to twist the facts though.

why did you think una would ever be killed

Scum are down one player.

There is watcher that can get guilties.

Why do you think they wouldnt target eitehr teh confirmed roleblocker or a claimed watcher. A role they would know is true or not.


Confirmed towny vs confirmed townie/confirmed roleblocker

Who do you think anyone in there right mind would pick

[bob3141]

Bob he’s scum he can’t target himself with the night kill

I was on about that if he was town that scum would know he was a watcher. Thus any nightkill would either be on him or agar

A town watcher would be thinking either agar dies in which case i get guilty. Or I die in which case it doesn't matter. Not thinking oh they might kill una.


9/10 scum kill the watcher anyway. Would scum really risk being guilty over killing a town pr with no risk. Especially when they are one down.

The only risk would be it fails. And since a doc is highly unlikely if prana was a town watcher. Why would scum not try

[bob3141]

Gypyx
notscience
CooLDoG
Battle Mage
Emperor flippyNips *
Hoopla
PranaDevil
UnaBombaH
Hiraki
bob3141

those are the alive players with 2 scum in them

minus flipys confirms and flippy himself

Gypyx
notscience
CooLDoG
Hoopla
PranaDevil
Hiraki
bob3141

[bob3141]

To summarize my thoughts on each player:

Gypyx: My top townread. Lynchbait supreme. The traitor stuff is legit, and he's trying to scumhunt and getting frustrated that it's not working.
CooLDoG: Probably town. I buy that he believes what he believes at key moments. Questionable at times in quick succession, but I suspect that's just CooLDoG.
gobbledygook: He feels town to me. Occasionally I sync up with where he's at pretty well. He doesn't feel like scum!gobble. Turkey is also prime lynchbait.
Hoopla: Doing good things for this game. Shouldn't be lynched today and is >rand town.
Battle Mage: Espe was towny. I reeeally liked 99. Battle Mage himself is... fine? Looking forward to developing this more.

PranaDevil: I'm not getting enough content, and what's there is surface-level. If I can catch you online at the same time as me sometime soon, I'd love to chat about the game.
AGar: Like a more aggressive, active, detailed version of Prana. Your stances feel safe even though they're stated strongly. I want to find you suspicious but I suspect a lot of what I'm seeing is personality.
bob3141: who???

Hiraki: Meh. Getting mostly nothings from him. I find myself opposed to his stances and not really understanding where he's coming from. I'm hoping to see this change soon. I'd be fine with getting some pressure here.
UnaBombaH: Feels fake. His read on Gypyx felt safe. His read on my slot felt odd in comparison to the other slots he had more solid reason to suspect. Could easily be scum.
notscience: I haven't seen a single reason to townread you, and I feel like I should have. You've been remarkably noncommittal while technically being a presence in the game. I'd lynch here happily.
Emperor flippyNips: Why isn't this dead yet? He started posting content specifically in response to being called out for not posting content. Political reads, really poor defense, all around just scum.

VOTE: Emperor flippyNips

Going to sleep for now, talk to you all tomorrow.

klicks early read list

[bob3141]

No ifs , no buts. If you are town you should have been on agar regardless of what anyone said during the last day.


And I think it is interesting that scum would be bold enough to try and kill agar over you. If you are town then I would have run into serious risk of getting guiltied.


The highest risk role to scum last night was you. And if you were not scum. Then scum would know that. Thus they would know 2.5 of the town roles. And I really don't think they would take the greater risk of guitied by known pr over there kill failing trying to kill you.

When a combo of roleblocker, doc, and watcher would be highly unlikely.

[bob3141]

will get caught up later today

[bob3141]

yeah I get the impression that is a counterwagon for the sake of a counterwagon.

can you give your thoughts on Flippy? as much as my initial take aligns with where you guys going, I'm looking at Flippy and seeing a lot of similarities to prana, just with a slightly more believable claim. Run up and claimed power D1, still getting results despite being claimed, not pushing a strong wagon today. am I wrong to be a little suspicious there?

My two cents

Also after klicks flip it doesnt look likely. I very much get the sense that it couldnt be s/s. If you look at the read list of his I posted it doesnt look like scum trying to push against his buddy. Looks liek a real try at pushing flipy

[bob3141]

Micc you go first then

[bob3141]

or agar is still with us

[bob3141]

in spirt at least. He prob had a backup

[bob3141]

VOTE: Micc

[bob3141]

i have feeling any rolecop backup would of targeted micc.

[bob3141]

look how I got no bits on the Gypyx Micc lynch day one. I only got one other on my try at flash lynching him.

with una v gobble. Scum would of loved a flasg lynch on gypyx. so that they could kick the can of unav gobble to the next lynch

[bob3141]

flippy confirms

una
battle
Hoopla

[bob3141]

and flippy himself is very unlikely to be partnered with klick

[bob3141]

names remaining

MIcc
notscience
CooLDoG
UnaBombaH
Hiraki
bob3141

with 10 alive

we have no kill

so for scum to get to lylo they need to mislynch 3 times. And they only have 3 nk.

[bob3141]

MIcc
notscience
CooLDoG
Hiraki
bob3141

correction

[bob3141]

MIcc
notscience
Dun
Hiraki

That can be reduced down to.

And im sure if anyone dies during the night. One of those will be confirmed plus one beign removed from beign lynched.

that leaves 2 names.

and 2 mislynches before mylo

[bob3141]

i was before agar died a backup town roleblocker

[bob3141]

Targeted micc last night

[bob3141]

Ill go for Hiraki

[bob3141]

Agar catching kilick was like a house of cards

[bob3141]

My role was backup roleblocker

im sure you can see the crumb

[bob3141]

Yep scum very unlucky this game. Not much you can do about being guiltied twice.

Although i do think it was mistake to kill agar. Even without watcher being a bad claim for scum (in terms longevity). You should of killed flippy night 2

the oneshot thing was clearly fake from a balance point. more likely it would be full, 2-3x shot or even/odd night


Resulted in you losing prana. If a town gunsmithy had flipped it would not have been as damaging. And one less clear

[bob3141]

Was a nice game.

[bob3141]

I think the problem you had was that you got extra power but when that happens town gets even more.

Although this more of guestimation. Town normaly gets a mid level role for each scum and each scum power role. So having an ungated pr plus a one shot pr. Added 3/4 of mid role to the town.

And the power scum gets migth actualy not end up benefiting them. As either they didnt need the role or they were unlucky with its results.