Open 781: JK9++ Game Over!

[lilith2013]

and for my first post, a PAGETOP

hi friends! excited to play with everyone

yall, mena just copied the order of the playerlist. lol

[lilith2013]

VOTE: penguin

[lilith2013]

heh i stole it

[lilith2013]

uhhh

fear of embarrassment from poor mafia playing

also like people knowing each other better and being for the most part More Close to everyone else than me

idk it's weird

If it makes you feel any better, I took a ~4 year hiatus and just came back, so I have never played with probably 2/3 of the people in this game

[lilith2013]

Blake Belladonna

What is this for

[lilith2013]

Penguin is definitely a player in this game.

What does this mean? Are you scumreading him?

[lilith2013]

i was just scum with her and her entrance feels different than that game
(yes, i'm aware it's one post, but that's why i wrote 'maybe' and i figure sharing these pings at least generates discussion)

what feels different about it?

[lilith2013]

You get those anyway

VOTE: bingle

I think the turkey might be scum, datisi might be scum, Lilith might be scum, and bingle might be scum

Choose in those 4 names

Where did these come from

[lilith2013]

can we get more votes on penguin please

[lilith2013]

Looks like datisi is beetlejuicing so i might actually agree with maybescum!datisi

[lilith2013]

FB is neither serious nor town, PP. Keep up.

Oh? why are you scumreading fb?

[lilith2013]

Ah shit missed the pagetop

[lilith2013]

You get those anyway

VOTE: bingle

I think the turkey might be scum, datisi might be scum, Lilith might be scum, and bingle might be scum

Choose in those 4 names

Where did these come from

Gut. Turkey isn’t being town yet in a way that I would expect from him, datisi is dubious but not obvtowning which means she may be scum, I didn’t really like your entrance, bingle I already explained but there was kind of a tonal clash between his opening and his immediate move onto mechanics

You voted bingle after he only had one post (the joke) though. Was that a serious vote/if so, what was that based on?

[lilith2013]

Have you had a towngame since you got back on site Lilith?

I have one completed towngame:

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=83&t=83046

Technically I have another as a hydra but I had maybe 5 posts? and D1 ended very quickly so I wouldn’t consider that a completed game really, but lmk if you want the link to that too

[lilith2013]

Have you had a towngame since you got back on site Lilith?

I have one completed towngame:

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=83&t=83046

Technically I have another as a hydra but I had maybe 5 posts? and D1 ended very quickly so I wouldn’t consider that a completed game really, but lmk if you want the link to that too

sorry that’s not a very good explanation of the hydra game.... it was partition mafia and i was part of the group that got lynched d1, which also happened very quickly, so i have very few posts in that game

[lilith2013]

Were you actually in the mini normal where you said you clocked S_S as scum after 5 posts?

i wasn’t in the game, no. i was poking around his games and reading some of his posts after i came back on site

[lilith2013]

@lilith oh I got the order of events mixed up in my head then, I thought I’d only voted him after the second post

I can’t remember exactly what I was thinking but it may have just been that his entrance was a reference to something in the game but not to anything beyond that

Also kinda seems like the sort of cheeky shit that scumgle would say after rolling scum

Okay

[lilith2013]

can we get more votes on penguin please

Why?

he shaded chemist and you in a way that pinged me, like it looked more like trying to blend in than actually scumreading you. he said “chemist is scum” but didn’t follow that up with any push or vote. i’d say same goes for his post on you but he was already on your wagon from rvs. idk, just the whole thing doesn’t feel right to me

[lilith2013]

Yeah I won’t really bother with partition then. Why do you think PP is scum, Lilith?

sorry i was getting to this one!!! see above

[lilith2013]

hey datisi, you seem cool. wanna be friends

[lilith2013]

damn what a mod snipe

[lilith2013]

@datisi i don't really have a read on you atm

[lilith2013]

then why does this site have a friends list

[lilith2013]

@datisi i don't really have a read on you atm

ok

i townread you now anyway

why?

[lilith2013]

dont think lilith/datisi team. My hot take

why?

[lilith2013]

@mena how do you feel about your one scumread gobbles joining you on the wagon of your other scumread bingle

[lilith2013]

no

[lilith2013]

pedit: @lilith also fb u r correct

sorry what does this part mean? i got lost

[lilith2013]

dont think lilith/datisi team. My hot take

why?

last page didn't feel like scum theatre

do you mean the part where i said "let's be friends" and datisi said "yeah i wanna be friends"? how is that not fakeable as svs?

[lilith2013]

have u seen scum interactions with teammates like that Lilith?

no

anyway i'm satisfied with your answer

[lilith2013]

@mena how do you feel about your one scumread gobbles joining you on the wagon of your other scumread bingle

Not sure yet, I kinda wanna see more from gobbles before I commit on him

okay

[lilith2013]

kinda i'm feeling weird around The Penguin too

pretty sure penguin is being normal. What is weird

did you see my post?

[lilith2013]

love them pagetops

[lilith2013]

HAAAAAAAAA

[lilith2013]

i didn't set myself up, how could i do that when i'm making 3 posts in succession and at different intervals

[lilith2013]

i am on a computer but only because i had to do some modding actions for a mish mash game i'm running

[lilith2013]

@fb

can we get more votes on penguin please

Why?

he shaded chemist and you in a way that pinged me, like it looked more like trying to blend in than actually scumreading you. he said “chemist is scum” but didn’t follow that up with any push or vote. i’d say same goes for his post on you but he was already on your wagon from rvs. idk, just the whole thing doesn’t feel right to me

i guess also @mena, do you have any thoughts on what i said here

[lilith2013]

the spicy omgus

[lilith2013]

Ohh datisi wasn't asking me to let him post. But I still stand by my statement. Datisi may never post again.

you cannot stop me

fite me 1v1 in rl noob.

Also penguin is clearly in the relaxed joking kind of mood so far. I think at worst he is using that to blend in, but to say he is making moves and they are serious attempts to make stuff happen is kind of too big brain methinks.

both the posts that I mentioned seem more serious than joking to me.

[lilith2013]

damn i keep missing these pagetops, need to pay more attention to my post #s

[lilith2013]

I mean theres a general trend of posts that i think show it isn't the mood he is in to be really serious?

idk what this means. like as a person he isn’t serious?

[lilith2013]

Were you actually in the mini normal where you said you clocked S_S as scum after 5 posts?

i wasn’t in the game, no. i was poking around his games and reading some of his posts after i came back on site

hey mena just curious where this question was going?

[lilith2013]

I don’t like the idea of commuters claiming to confirm the hider exists.
I also think that Bingle scumreading FB but not voting FB is suss. Especially when he’s voting your lolwagon.

:eyebrow:

I'd expect you of all people to remember that I never argue theory I don't think is protown, regardless of my alignment. It's kind of my whole gimmick.

I also hard disagree with characterizing Mena's wagon as a lolwagon, and am in fact scumreading Mena. I assumed that was obvious when I voted him in a reads post.

isn't it a lolwagon though...? who else on mena is/was a non-rvs vote?

[lilith2013]

isn't it a lolwagon though...? who else on mena is/was a non-rvs vote?

Are you saying Dats' vote on Mena is still RVS?
Skitts' probably is, tbf, but the presence or absence of one RVS vote does not a lolwagon make.

Compared to my wagon, where PP would be voting me if the mod had outed me as town in the OP and the rest of the players are at least partially voting me for the thing I am literally known for doing in all of my games regardless of alignment...

Yeah, the Mena wagon is in no way a lolwagon.

There was an RVS wagon on mena which is mainly what i’m referring to, which consisted of gobbles, skitter, datisi, penguin, and mena. As far as i can tell none of those were serious votes at the time of the wagon - so this definitely was a lolwagon

Gobbles and penguin left the wagon to join mena’s wagoning of you. skitter is vla. I don’t wanna put words in datisi’s mouth but afaik he hasn’t actually indicated that he’s scumreading mena or that the vote is serious, so I’m assuming that his vote is still from rvs, yes. You’re the only person who has stated that your mena vote is serious. i don’t think i’d even count skitter and datisi as being part of the mena wagon unless either of them say it’s now a serious vote.

[lilith2013]

I don’t really think we have the same definition of “lolwagon”

[lilith2013]

nvm i reread and i think maybe you think datisi is scumreading mena but i don’t think he is?

[lilith2013]

I’m not really sure where else the disconnect could be coming from

[lilith2013]

No i’m talking about what datisi’s read is on mena

[lilith2013]

Bingle is saying mena’s wagon is a serious wagon but as far as i can tell, no one else’s vote on mena is backed by a serious reason - skitter’s was rvs and i can’t find anything in datisi’s iso indicating he’s scumreading mena

[lilith2013]

@datisi, why are you townreading bingle?

[lilith2013]

reaction post to your meme readslist

Yeah, okay, I jive with this, that did give me good pings

okay but right after that reaction post was when you said datisi might be scum? how does that compute

[lilith2013]

Penguin vote was mostly to see if anyone would react to me joining such a big wagon

? the wagon was a grand total of 2 people before you joined

[lilith2013]

i think i like skitter for town, her posting feels much more off-the-cuff than city

[lilith2013]

it’s possible i feel this way only because she’s posting in real time, but i don’t think i felt this way about her posts even when she was posting in real time in city

[lilith2013]

i’m not sure that made sense, brain still sleepy

[lilith2013]

@mena you didn’t ask me my take on the bingle thing (thingle?) but ftr i think he’s taken that approach to more than just your posts

[lilith2013]

as in, i don’t think it’s necessarily bad faith (although it could be), i could see a world where town!bingle is misreading everyone’s signals because he’s off on his own wavelength

[lilith2013]

that said, i don’t feel anything particularly towny from him

[lilith2013]

okay spammy spam over. i think i’m caught up

[lilith2013]

i think probably my biggest issue with bingle’s iso is that he’s using mena’s jokeposts as part of his reasoning for a serious scumread on mena when i think those posts can’t really be included in terms of content because the content was not real content. what are your thoughts on that?

[lilith2013]

2 out of the 3 non-datisi posts he referenced were either the joke readslist or directly related to it

[lilith2013]

actually i’m not even sure why mena is defending himself re: buddying skitter because i assumed that post about skitter was also not real content due to it being based on the joke readslist in the first place

[lilith2013]

i still think penguin might be scum since he literally comes to this thread just to badmouth me but i know i’m gonna be an asshole if i post my response so i deleted my post.

[lilith2013]

Lilith gets it. I don’t think town!Bingle scumreads Menalque for what Bingle is scumreading Menalque for right now.

erm that’s not really what i said?

[lilith2013]

Post 87 was very political, not in the order of people addressed but in what you said about them. Particularly Skitts/Dats/Turkey feels like there's an agenda to what was said.

98 continues said agenda on skitts.

140 feels like a completely made up reason to suspect me, and not one I'd expect to come from town you.

@datisi

[lilith2013]

i think probably my biggest issue with bingle’s iso is that he’s using mena’s jokeposts as part of his reasoning for a serious scumread on mena when i think those posts can’t really be included in terms of content because the content was not real content.

Erm?

I didn’t say that that was towny?

[lilith2013]

Post 87 was very political, not in the order of people addressed but in what you said about them. Particularly Skitts/Dats/Turkey feels like there's an agenda to what was said.

98 continues said agenda on skitts.

140 feels like a completely made up reason to suspect me, and not one I'd expect to come from town you.

@datisi

yes? i said i buy this post as legit (even tho ot might not be correct)?

okay

[lilith2013]

Lilith gets it. I don’t think town!Bingle scumreads Menalque for what Bingle is scumreading Menalque for right now.

@gobbles then what does this post mean?

[lilith2013]

i’m trying really hard not to be toxic. going to take some time off from the thread.

[lilith2013]

Work is a shitshow today, I’m in back to back meetings for most of the day. I’ll catch up tonight

[lilith2013]

mena, did you?

[lilith2013]

why are you being opaque about it?

[lilith2013]

Gobbles, where are you trying to go with this questioning? What purpose does it serve/how is it helping you sort skitter?

[lilith2013]

disclaimer, i’m still not really caught up but i’m still working so i can’t make catchup posts

[lilith2013]

Wow okay i really didn’t expect that

[lilith2013]

i still think penguin might be scum since he literally comes to this thread just to badmouth me but i know i’m gonna be an asshole if i post my response so i deleted my post.

Yes. The fact that you are scumreading me for joke posts yet attacking Bingle for doing the same thing to Mena and me pointing out the irony is me badmouthing you.

I think the word I should have used was “antagonize.” It seemed like you were deliberately coming to the thread to try and make me upset which I think is kind of a dick move and I think could come from scum trying to obfuscate my scumread. I had no way of knowing your posts were at all joke posts? Like I still don’t see any indication of joking when I read your ISO, whereas I was clear on mena’s readspost not being real and Bingle also knew that when he posted.

Lilith gets it. I don’t think town!Bingle scumreads Menalque for what Bingle is scumreading Menalque for right now.

@gobbles then what does this post mean?

I interpreted your post as scumreading Bingle for including Menalque’s Joke posts in a Real scum case against Menalque. I was agreeing with you by saying I don’t think town!Bingle makes a case like that.

yes you’re right, I horribly misread your original post

reaction post to your meme readslist

Yeah, okay, I jive with this, that did give me good pings

okay but right after that reaction post was when you said datisi might be scum? how does that compute

That post was mild townping but not out of what dats might do as scum. The thing I was giving them the “maybe scum” read for was about overall engagement up to that point

@mena you didn’t ask me my take on the bingle thing (thingle?) but ftr i think he’s taken that approach to more than just your posts

as in, i don’t think it’s necessarily bad faith (although it could be), i could see a world where town!bingle is misreading everyone’s signals because he’s off on his own wavelength

Yeah, I’ve been working through people to hear what they think. Would you say I was dismissive of datisi in those posts then? Because I feel like in your posts afterwards you give the impression that you don’t think I was like that. How do you think bingle, if town, got mixed up there?

You felt standoffish, sure, but I think if you genuinely thought datisi might be scum there then it wasn’t like really out of the blue for you to approach the interaction that way. I think town!bingle could conceivably be reading ulterior moves into everything and not take things people say at face value

[lilith2013]

Oh hey accidental pagetop

[lilith2013]

I actually do not have the energy to deal with this any further, but I do not want to replace out.

I am the serial killer. I am sorry if I offended mariar or anyone else. I will not be leashed, but I will only be shooting people I legitimately believe are scum.

If that's the case, I'd love to see how skitter gets out of her "I noticed the crumbs" post saying she didn't want to vote you

? What does this mean?

[lilith2013]

What do you think it means, lilith?

that you think it’s incongruous for skitter to have stayed off the wagon after seeing a crumb? which I’m not really getting?

[lilith2013]

oh hmmm

when I went to go check for crumbs in gobble’s ISO, I actually saw a crumb for something other than SK so I assumed that’s what skitter was referring to. you’re saying she saw the SK crumb? or are you saying she lied because she said she stayed off the wagon because she didn’t get it but really she stayed off because of the crumb? but you think she’s actually just scum, staying off the wagon? why would she stay off?

[lilith2013]

oh god now I have to reveal how shitty I am at reading crumbs

[lilith2013]

VOTE: Datisi

btw i am a cop

Gobbles do u doubt my genuineness.

Iiii do

this is the one i saw on first glance?

Good thing I’m the SK so I can kill those people who have stolen what is rightfully mine

but also you did say this so i thought maybe this was a crumb too?

[lilith2013]

ss did you get any reads but from the bits of the game you did read?

You, gobbles, and lilith are townleans.

And to be clear, I did read the whole game, but that's not to say that I remember it all.

SS, why the townlean on me? I feel like I’m playing significantly worse here than in zoey’s.

[lilith2013]

@ponk ball, what’s your read on maria?

[lilith2013]

oops, pink ball*

[lilith2013]

weird in what way?

[lilith2013]

also i think i don’t like skitter’s reaction to SS but i need to reread this part again

[lilith2013]

oh hmmm

when I went to go check for crumbs in gobble’s ISO, I actually saw a crumb for something other than SK so I assumed that’s what skitter was referring to. you’re saying she saw the SK crumb? or are you saying she lied because she said she stayed off the wagon because she didn’t get it but really she stayed off because of the crumb? but you think she’s actually just scum, staying off the wagon? why would she stay off?

I'm saying she lied about seeing a crumb

i’m asking what motivation would she have to do that?

[lilith2013]

VOTE: Datisi

btw i am a cop

Gobbles do u doubt my genuineness.

Iiii do

this is the one i saw on first glance?

I believe there are no cops in this setup?

“Iiii” -> i read as a tracker crumb

i did say i was really shitty at reading crumbs

[lilith2013]

@ponk ball, what’s your read on maria?

oops, pink ball*

Wait no, no oops, I love ponk ball

She's town

okay i will call you ponk ball from now on

[lilith2013]

damn so close to the pagetop

[lilith2013]

To justify avoiding a wagon that 1. could disolve after a claim, or 2. could go through and flip town because she knows gobble is not scum

okay gobbles did say he crumbed though?

[lilith2013]

idk what skitter saw but i’m really not picking up what you’re putting down here

[lilith2013]

gobbles said he crumbed and that it wasn’t an sk crumb so at this point are you just arguing that skitter lied about seeing a crumb that actually existed? idgi

[lilith2013]

Okay but presumably scum!skitter wouldn’t say that she saw a crumb if she didn’t actually see any posts that could have conceivably been a crumb, and she totally could have just said she didn’t see it and said she was questioning the wagon because she was townreading gobble or even just because it was so fast, which would have been consistent with what she was saying before. So I’m assuming that she’s telling the truth about seeing a crumb, regardless of her alignment.

[lilith2013]

that can be @both of you i guess

[lilith2013]

the only reason i could see for skitter lying about seeing a crumb is if gobbles isn’t SK and is just scum and skitter is also scum

[lilith2013]

like either:
1) skitter is town and did see a crumb
2) skitter is scum and did see a crumb
3) skitter is scum and didn’t see a crumb but for some reason lied about seeing it when she could have just said she was townreading gobbles
4) skitter and gobbles are both scum and skitter is covering for gobbles?

[lilith2013]

I'm not sure I agree, but that seems like a very town thought process.

BRB, I wanna check something.

what post is this in response to?

[lilith2013]

i should really sleep

[lilith2013]

@ponk ball can you explain this interaction?

I don’t like skitter randomly going after chemist. It reads to me like she’s trying to get away from the SS interaction she had by creating new talking points on an easy slot to go after

Let's DO IT

VOTE: skitter30

what was your read on gobbles at the time? how come you immediately unvoted skitter?

[lilith2013]

@ponk ball this too

C'mon, you're skitter, you should know it, one way or another you should know it.

Who's scum, skitter?

No but for real, I have some good vibes towards a solid townbloc and that's fine enough for now. Mixed feelings would be on you, Chemist and Bingle. Bingle is probably town at the end of the day, but he still has to die for all the betrayals I've suffered on his behalf

so you had what was maybe a scumlean on chemist but agreed with voting skitter because of her chemist vote? Why no push on chemist afterwards? Or further engagement with skitter?

[lilith2013]

okay fair, i added my personal interpretation. do you see where i’m coming from though?

[lilith2013]

okay, why did you vote skitter there then?

[lilith2013]

I mean, what does it mean that you “wanted to vote skitter for a while”? why?

[lilith2013]

Also why is pushing chemist useless

[lilith2013]

okay i made it up to mena’s readslist. it’s 2:30am so i’m calling it a night

[lilith2013]

okay

[lilith2013]

what’s “wim”?

[lilith2013]

how do you decide his alignment then?

[lilith2013]

that sounds like a huge free pass?

[lilith2013]

lol same here. good night ponk ball

[lilith2013]

[lilith2013]

okay last post before i go

@bingle:

Gobbles being SK does go a long way towards explaining why his wagon felt so weird though.

weird in what way?

[lilith2013]

thanks

[lilith2013]

lol okay, gtfo out of here with your trash votes

blake, how do you have a “current lead” on me you’d like to pursue if your reason for voting me is that i’m not in your townpile, and not anything that i’ve actually done

gobbles, are you literally just joining any wagon that crops up so you don’t die today?

mena, why are you voting me?

[lilith2013]

Lilith is town

explain please?

Lilith how are you reading ss?

I think he’s tentatively town. He’s done one of the things I use to townread him, but not the other yet. If he does the second thing then my read will be 99.5% confidence.

Also if ss were scum i'd expect multiple scum to be on the original gobble wagon

Who do you think would be the scum on the wagon in that scenario?

[lilith2013]

@lilith when you’re next here who do you feel is strongly town?

no one? the only people above null for me right now are skitter and SS but neither of those are strong reads

[lilith2013]

mmm maybe datisi too

[lilith2013]

SS, why the townlean on me? I feel like I’m playing significantly worse here than in zoey’s.

Admittedly I have been burned by this kind of logic but your play seems a lot less focused than in either of your scumgames and I think you'd be trying to get more done.

I didn't townread you in Zoey's, actually, because I thought it wouldn't have been too difficult for you to play the way you did as scum.

what do you mean by the part about zoey’s?

[lilith2013]

man i really think ss is scum here

because of the mechanics talk or for some other reason?

[lilith2013]

lol okay, gtfo out of here with your trash votes

blake, how do you have a “current lead” on me you’d like to pursue if your reason for voting me is that i’m not in your townpile, and not anything that i’ve actually done

gobbles, are you literally just joining any wagon that crops up so you don’t die today?

mena, why are you voting me?

The fact that you're not in my townpile is why I think you're scum.

I have the impression that I should have a townread on you by now. I do not.

okay but the words “lead that you’re currently pursuing” imply that you have some specific reason to be voting and pushing me..... and btw, where’s the push?

[lilith2013]

disclaimer, i’m still not really caught up but i’m still working so i can’t make catchup posts

Why did you feel the need to make this post Lilith?

I thought it was better to be honest and upfront about how much i had/hadn’t read of the game? and wanted to be available if anyone was interested in engaging with me in real time even though I wasn’t fully caught up?

but cool, now i’m being pushed for being honest about where i am with the game, so i know to literally never do that again

[lilith2013]

like would you rather that i lurked my way through the day? i’d rather be as available as i can with the caveat that i haven’t had time to read and digest everything in the game but still contribute as much as i can with my limited time

[lilith2013]

wrt the section of mena’s readslist pertaining to my activity, i don’t see why i would blatantly announce that i can’t be active/haven’t caught up and draw attention to myself like that as scum? like if i were trying to blend in, couldn’t i just.... not post? so how is this AI? and ftr, the reason i made that initial post is because if i don’t say something that will hold me accountable for catching up (like other people asking why i haven’t caught up when i promised to), i’ll just procrastinate until the end of time. promising other people that i’ll do something is much more likely to get me to actually do it. it has nothing to do with me trying to look towny or whatever you think my reason was.

also, pink ball did exactly the same thing as me but you made no comment on him doing it. why’s that?

i’ll respond to the rest of this later, but yeah it’s real cool that i’m getting pushed for trying to be more of a team player

[lilith2013]

okay, i think my point is still valid that if mena thinks it’s a scumtell for me to pop in and say i can’t be around for a while and you also make a post saying you won’t be around for a while, that he should also think it’s a scumtell for you?

[lilith2013]

but cool, now i’m being pushed for being honest about where i am with the game, so i know to literally never do that again

what?

what do you mean by the part about zoey’s?

I wouldn't townread you if you were playing similarly to that game.

no, i meant what about my play in zoey's did you think could come from scum?

[lilith2013]

that’s not the part that mena said pinged him

[lilith2013]

I think town that's busy typically just is busy and tends to drop content in when they can rather than excuse their not being able to do so.

this should apply to you as well

[lilith2013]

no, i meant what about my play in zoey's did you think could come from scum?

...all of it? If I didn't think all of your posts could come from scum, I'd be townreading you.

okay but

why

what?

That comment is not helpful and you know that.

i don’t really give a fuck, i feel like i’m being punished for trying to be honest and transparent and if that’s the reaction i get, then why would i do that again?

[lilith2013]

then why say you’re pursuing a lead?

[lilith2013]

@ponk ball

that’s not the part that mena said pinged him

I think town that's busy typically just is busy and tends to drop content in when they can rather than excuse their not being able to do so.

this should apply to you as well

[lilith2013]

Being able to come from scum is the default state of a player's posts, until they do something that seems unlikely to be scum. In that game, you were active and engaged, you expressed and pushed reads that had the potential to be an agenda, and you tried to work together with others. You never really did anything weird, contradictory, or unexpected. That's pretty much how your scumgames have gone as well.

What happened to your magic ability to read me?

[lilith2013]

mena, i didn’t actually think you were ignoring me before but now it seems like you are in fact blatantly ignoring me

[lilith2013]

as well as anything having to do with me

[lilith2013]

yet you’re voting me. why’s that?

[lilith2013]

man i really think ss is scum here

because of the mechanics talk or for some other reason?

he feels like how he interacted in city + i don't like his mechanics talk

I believe SS wouldn’t posit “bad” mechanics talk as either alignment unless he genuinely believed it, so that’s not really AI for me.

Have you read the zoey’s game that we were in?

[lilith2013]

I’m on board with lynching gobbles though

[lilith2013]

ooh

[lilith2013]

okay well i wanted to know whether he felt similarly distant in that game fypov because he had a similar VLA at the beginning of the game

[lilith2013]

good luck on all of your stuffs btw

[lilith2013]

where are you moving to, if you don’t mind me asking?

[lilith2013]

mena, i didn’t actually think you were ignoring me before but now it seems like you are in fact blatantly ignoring me

Sort of, but I’ll get to it once I’m at a computer

You post a lot of stuff

hi are you going to respond to anything i said?

[lilith2013]

i did specify that i was only responding to the part of your post that was about my activity since it was related to my response to gobbles

almost all of the people who have played with scum with me since my return to the site are in this game and they’ve all said that my play is or feels very different from my scumgames with them. i’m not going to argue that i’ve accomplished a lot in this game because i haven’t, but i don’t think i’ve been pretending to have accomplished anything either. i don’t feel like you’ve described anything that isn’t characteristic of my towngame or just NAI for me.

i think skitter and SS and to some extent maria have all vouched for me at one point. if you’re town, can you step back and maybe realize that they know me better than you do? unless you think the solve is all within {me, skitter, SS, maria}, then fypov at least one of these people is telling the truth about their thoughts on me.

[lilith2013]

actually it shouldn’t even matter what your solve is - max is 3 scum, so unless all of them are scum and I’m not, then at least one person is telling the truth. and in the case where the other 3 are scum, then i’m town so it doesn’t matter whether they’re telling the truth.

[lilith2013]

I'll have to rethink.

There's still a dissonance to the game that I don't think would naturally exist if the scumteam were all among the lower influence players. I don't have enough information to determine where exactly the dissonance is coming from at the current moment.

Blake, who would you consider to be higher influence players? Your readslist doesn’t really jive with this post.. I’d consider everyone in your 3-4 lowest tiers to be of lower influence, which fypov should contradict what you said above.

[lilith2013]

Like there’s a reason I fakeclaimed SK and not just purposefully scumslipped like I did in Baker’s game. I’ve had ample opportunity to self hammer. If I wanted to die I would have done it. I wanted to troll you all since clearly none of you are trying to read. I did SK soecifically to see if people would gtfo me and try to find ground scum and only like three people did that. Skitter, Blake, Bingle, and mayyyne to an extent but it came really late, Menalque.

Why didn’t you just claim a PR then?

[lilith2013]

Its a silly thing to do as either alignment but i think its significantly more likely to come from town than scum because scum dont purposefully do things that might get them pl'd

I mean he obviously claimed SK to avoid being lynched.

There's a very decent chance you get pl'd for claiming sk, if you're fake-claiming to avoid a lynch why dont you at least claim something non-pl'able, like, say, doc, jk, vig, etc

this is true for both town and scum though. In all cases, fakeclaiming SK is a suboptimal play so i don’t really think you can argue “why would gobbles claim SK as groupscum, that’s clearly a suboptimal play” when i could make (and am making) the other side of this argument - why would gobbles claim SK as town? that’s also a suboptimal play, i would say maybe even more so than if he were groupscum? on top of that, if gobbles truly wanted town to look for other groupscum then he could have agreed to be leashed, since most of the people trying to lynch him said he could live if he agreed to that. and it didn’t even have to be right away, but he saw how long-winded the arguments were getting about whether to let him live and he didn’t do anything to redirect the game back towards scumhunting at that point, when he could have agreed to be leashed or retracted his claim then. i think that’s more telling than the fakeclaim itself.

[lilith2013]

I think fb is just scum straight up. Trying to meme his way in with a fakeclaim of cop but didn’t realize there’s no cop unless he’s rolecop

? i don’t think it was a serious claim by any means. also rolecop isn’t a scumrole?

[lilith2013]

Lilith, I responded to everything you were badgering me about and now it doesn’t feel like you wanna talk anymore

I would also like to talk to María at this point in time

I responded to you? Is there a specific thing you want me to answer?

[lilith2013]

no i just haven’t really figured out who i want to lynch yet

[lilith2013]

i think almost50 is probably town

[lilith2013]

i’m writing up a thing, please hold

[lilith2013]

still town

[lilith2013]

i don’t read him by play

[lilith2013]

that’s the TLDR

[lilith2013]

yeah i basically don’t have any strong scumreads (on groupscum, that is) but i’d definitely rather lynch gobbles over SS

[lilith2013]

VOTE: gobbles

[lilith2013]

i think that’s L-2?

[lilith2013]

when reading SS, i basically don’t look at his play at all and instead look at how he interacts with people. his posts this game have come down on the side of his townself interactions in the way that he talks to people. the second thing i use to read him is whether i “vibe” with his posts (sorry i know this is a HORRIBLE explanation but i really can’t articulate it better than this), which i had only been kinda feeling in the first half of this Day and that’s why i was only townleaning him before. his recent posts as well as his posts on this page have been way more vibey for me, so he’s now in my top townreads. maybe the top townread for me.

i’d like to think that i probably know how to read him the most out of everyone in this game, i feel pretty confident in my ability to read him, and i think if he were scum, something out of the two things above would have felt off to me way earlier unless 1) he has figured out how to fake the things I use to townread him, which I think is fairly hard; and 2) he’s trying really really hard not to ping me specifically, possibly to the point of opening him up to being scumread by other people. i don’t see this being the approach that scum!SS takes with me if it means he risks being lynched, i think if he’s afraid of my reading him correctly he’d just go the NK route or try to get me lynched instead (a la the approaches that I tried to take on him in GnR), since my influence is pretty low in this game.

regarding the reasons for people being on his wagon - i have a lot of respect for SS as a player, i think he’s very intelligent and strategic, and i trust him over me completely when it comes to mechanics. i witnessed firsthand the kind of thought process that goes on when he’s scum, and i am absolutely, 100% certain that all of the things he said that seemed mechanically “off” to yall (ie the hider strategy with Bingle, and whether to leave SK!gobbles alive), he would say regardless of his alignment. scum!SS wouldn’t be saying things that he doesn’t genuinely believe is the best play. i can’t quote this verbatim but something he said to me while we were hydraing together is that he literally won’t post anything that he doesn’t think is true. on top of that, if he knew that what he was saying about hiders and keeping gobbles alive weren’t the best plays for town, i don’t think he would stick his head out and be the lone dissenter, i think his approach would be to not stand out. so feel free to think he’s wrong, but these takes being “wrong” is not scum indicative for him and i will defend this until the end of time. this is not a valid reason to scumread SS. even if my townread on SS is wrong (which i really don’t think it is), hell, even if i were scumreading SS, i would still argue that these points are not valid reasons to scumread him.

also i think SS has been pretty clearly the new counterwagon to gobbles for the last several rl days now, and if he were scum, his partners would have already been trying to divert the wagon elsewhere/there would have been at least some defending going on, but there’s basically been no opposition to the wagon. the game has stayed fairly stagnant in that time and we haven’t really seen anyone attempt to start a new counterwagon (i’ll go back and skim through to double check this but i don’t remember there being any other cw’s to gobble besides me). so that pretty much solidifies my resistance to lynching SS today.

[lilith2013]

wow and a pagetop too

TLDR: i think i know how to read SS the best out of this pl and i think he’s town; the mechanical stuff being “wrong” is never scum indicative for him; also where are his scumbuddies pushing a counterwagon?

[lilith2013]

@ponk ball did you read the skitter games you said you were going to read/what’s your conclusion?

[lilith2013]

also what’s your view on SS

[lilith2013]

weren’t you scumreading me?

[lilith2013]

I am

how does that jive with all of your SRs being on the SS wagon then? i’m pretty clearly not on that wagon

[lilith2013]

TLDR I have asthma and was having an attack. Huh

hope you’re doing okay now, and i’m glad it’s not coronavirus

[lilith2013]

what’s the difference? why does it matter if people you were previously scumreading but no longer scumreading are on the SS wagon in terms of “scum is making a counterwagon on SS” unless you still think those people are scum...?

[lilith2013]

i mean - why say that scum are pushing the wagon on SS if you’re not currently scumreading any of them?

[lilith2013]

i mean - why do you think that scum are pushing the wagon on SS if you’re not currently scumreading any of them?

ebwop

[lilith2013]

I haven't said that I'm not currently scumreading any of them

okay, which of them are you currently scumreading?

[lilith2013]

no i think SS's play this game is fairly similar to zoey's, and that his VLA at the beginning of both games had similar effects on how he played D1 there vs here (both feeling distant and not scumhunting)

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... ct[]=27021

[lilith2013]

also on what earth would scum be the sole defender against an L-1 wagon on their scumpartner?

[lilith2013]

i think you're trying to line up mislynches here

[lilith2013]

wait nvm, you said lynch me if SS flips red

[lilith2013]

also on what earth would scum be the sole defender against an L-1 wagon on their scumpartner?

...the world where they don’t want their scumpartner to be lynched lmao?

when bussing is a much more viable option?

[lilith2013]

i still think i'm right on SS

[lilith2013]

regarding the reasons for people being on his wagon - i have a lot of respect for SS as a player, i think he’s very intelligent and strategic, and i trust him over me completely when it comes to mechanics. i witnessed firsthand the kind of thought process that goes on when he’s scum, and i am absolutely, 100% certain that all of the things he said that seemed mechanically “off” to yall (ie the hider strategy with Bingle, and whether to leave SK!gobbles alive), he would say regardless of his alignment. scum!SS wouldn’t be saying things that he doesn’t genuinely believe is the best play. i can’t quote this verbatim but something he said to me while we were hydraing together is that he literally won’t post anything that he doesn’t think is true. on top of that, if he knew that what he was saying about hiders and keeping gobbles alive weren’t the best plays for town, i don’t think he would stick his head out and be the lone dissenter, i think his approach would be to not stand out. so feel free to think he’s wrong, but these takes being “wrong” is not scum indicative for him and i will defend this until the end of time. this is not a valid reason to scumread SS. even if my townread on SS is wrong (which i really don’t think it is), hell, even if i were scumreading SS, i would still argue that these points are not valid reasons to scumread him.

This so much.

These all seem like arguments for a null read. And I disagree with that.

my reasons for townreading SS are not related to this at all. i'm arguing that people who are voting SS for these reasons shouldn't be, because they should have a null read based on the above. did you read the whole post?

also on what earth would scum be the sole defender against an L-1 wagon on their scumpartner?

...the world where they don’t want their scumpartner to be lynched lmao?

when bussing is a much more viable option?

didn't u avoid bussing in guns and roses too though?

sure, but at the very least i'd say i have a history of "not townreading" my partners. i mean it's pretty clear that i'm aligning myself strongly with SS here which is just a stupid move if we're scum together.

[lilith2013]

These all seem like arguments for a null read.

...I mean, yes. It's an argument for why a thing that people are calling me scum for is not a good reason to call me scum.

^

[lilith2013]

probably? the tunneling you strategy didn't really work last time because i couldn't find things to scumread you for lol

[lilith2013]

did you read the whole post?

I skimmed it. Seemed like word salad to me when the jist was "none of these are scummy things. U guys scum reads don't have justification" and was like "ohh so none of this is why he is town just that nothing is scummy.

and then i hit the snooze button cause i just don't agree with that assesment.

yeah no the majority of my post was about why i townread him and it had nothing to do with this mechanical stuff.

[lilith2013]

u just contradicted urself.
don't make me go read through ur word salad.

where did i contradict myself?

[lilith2013]

u just contradicted urself.
don't make me go read through ur word salad.

where did i contradict myself?

ugh. don't make me get into a pointless argument.

i don't think it's a pointless argument. you said i contradicted myself. okay, where did i do that? give me a post number, it's not that hard if you actually had the thought that i contradicted myself.

[lilith2013]

i don't think it's a pointless argument. you said i contradicted myself. okay, where did i do that? give me a post number, it's not that hard if you actually had the thought that i contradicted myself.

yes it is.

if you genuinely thought i was contradicting myself, it's really not that hard to tell me where you thought that happened.

[lilith2013]

i mean it's pretty clear that i'm aligning myself strongly with SS here which is just a stupid move if we're scum together.

Is it an angle you would take if you were scum and I was town?

probably? the tunneling you strategy didn't really work last time because i couldn't find things to scumread you for lol

hey SS did you see my response to this

[lilith2013]

so you can't actually point out anywhere where i contradicted myself

[lilith2013]

you're also actively asking for other people to towncase SS but didn't read mine. is there a reason you're being an asshole to me?

[lilith2013]

VOTE: firebringer

[lilith2013]

why even point out that i contradicted myself then, if it has no impact on your reads?

the way i form reads is usually by interacting with someone and trying to figure out whether their perspective makes sense, so yes interacting with you more probably would have helped me read you.

[lilith2013]

you're also actively asking for other people to towncase SS but didn't read mine. is there a reason you're being an asshole to me?

I don't find ur town case convincing. It sounded more buddying than it did solid town points for SS.

yeah that's not at all what you said the first time

[lilith2013]

we're talking about my 2050, no? you originally said you didn't agree with my assessment that SS' mechanical suggestions were not scummy. now you say that my post sounds like buddying. how did you get from the first to the second?

[lilith2013]

what other posts are part of my towncase.......?

[lilith2013]

anyways if ur scum here i imagine ur trying to go for town points when SS flips.

doesn’t that assume town!SS? are you still scumreading him?

[lilith2013]

i don’t understand where any of your posts are coming from and that’s a huge red flag for me

[lilith2013]

is it bad that i actively don’t want to share how i do it so you can’t use it against me in future games

[lilith2013]

VOTE: gobbles

please vote gobbles instead if you intend to end the day now

[lilith2013]

that’s L-2 again i think

[lilith2013]

Who was the unvote?

i briefly voted someone else and am now back on gobbles

[lilith2013]

wow and a pagetop too

TLDR: i think i know how to read SS the best out of this pl and i think he’s town; the mechanical stuff being “wrong” is never scum indicative for him; also where are his scumbuddies pushing a counterwagon?

the mechanical stuff isn't what i'm reading him on

fair, i think at least 2 of the people on his wagon were though

he feels here like how he was engaging in city

the reason why i asked you if you’d read zoey’s is because i feel like the way he’s engaging is actually more similar to zoey’s than to city

i know i'm town and i was vocally pushing him for like 3-4 irl days with literally no traction other than fire and i feel like if he were town that would have gotten more traction give how hard i was pushing it?

wasn’t that at the same time that a juicy gobbles wagon was happening? and you thought scum were all over that wagon, right? i guess it’s a bit weird but also maybe fire is scum and the other scum were on the gobbles wagon

[lilith2013]

ok nm i still townread lilith and it makes me wonder if i ought to be townreading ss
my townread on fire is kinda evaporating

errrrr was this before or after seeing my post

[lilith2013]

waking up to an L-2 wagon on me sure is fun

I especially like how mena assumes that scum!me would kill PB, a player with fairly low influence, over anyone else in the game who was scumreading me yesterday and has/could have more influence on the game, like blake or mena. PB doesn’t really make sense as an NK for groupscum since he was pretty low influence and also not that townread, i think he’s a better candidate for an SK kill. i’ll look at who was scumreading him at the end of d1.