Open 781: JK9++ Game Over!

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Awwwww

Yissssssss

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That feel when you’re in a PL like this and you haven’t rolled scum for once

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Obligatory VOTE: datisi

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Wayyyyy, too slow turkey, but also hi!

Hi skitt, hi fb, hi S_S!

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I wonder if skitter and firebringer are scum together

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.

PP will be so disappointed in us all

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I wonder if skitter and firebringer are scum together

No, i am teamed with u

I’m ignoring my role PM and playing blind, I haven’t even looked in the private forums of the site in weeks

Guess we’ll just have to bus each other

Also, hi chem!

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Mena, Datisi is a threat to our scum win.
Please help me kill her. With votes.

I’m already voting her!

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So I just checked my role PM and it turns out I am in fact scum with firebringer

But tbf that was obvious anyway because he’d never be this excited if he were town plus he’s clearly fake claiming cop to try and draw a CC

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Menas charming good looks

Well, consider me pocketed

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I thought the bussing would look more authentic this way?

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Hi pure boi, Blake, Maria!

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Shall I self vote and we can see if scum have the balls to try and quickhammer me?

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Let’s get spicy VOTE: menalque

L-2 scum, i dare you

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Oh wait, did I not say hi to PP yet? Hi pingüino!

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I do actually believe that and I don’t wanna die so I will take that back

Scum called my bluff, damn it

UNVOTE:

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Okay everyone, here are my reads so far:

Locktown
Turkey — idk, I just think this is consistent with his standard level of effort at this point of the game and it’s a big meta towntell
skitter30 — town until proven otherwise is the standard approach, and it’s a good one

Prob town
Bingleboi — i think scum!bingle would be more excited and have already posted by now
MariaR — i always seem to townread Maria when she’s scum and scumread her when she’s town. This game I don’t have strong vibes from her yet, which is making me think she’s more likely town. Plus she has to eventually be town again in a game I’m in
Something_Smart — a tricksy one, kind of similar to Maria. Him being reasonable doesn’t indicate anything that strongly yet, but I’d say this okay is more in line with his town meta. Plus I doubt I catch scum him on D1, so he gets a pass

Null
lilith2013 — no experience with her, she stays here
Pure Boi — someone i always struggle to read because our never ending story tends to prevent me from ever thinking he’s scum. Trying to be objective about him this game because if I lockscum him from the start I’ll feel guilty and move him to town within 24 hrs even if he’s really scum
PP — king of GIFs and pagetops, but otherwise an unknown quantity. Nothing AI from him at this point

Scumlean
Chemist1422 — idk, I don’t think chem is tryharding yet and that’s a strong towntell for him. Should maybe be in null but I feel better about the other people there and he’s in the region
Firebringer — I think starting off scumreading him is the best approach. He has a towntell he hasn’t done yet

Scum
Blake Belladonna — playing it smart so far, doesn’t feel natural to me. She’s hard to catch but if I’m right she might be a good lynch today before she gets more dangerous later on
Datisi — lockscum, nothing in her posting says town!dats so far and I have 100% accurate history of reading her if we exempt the games where I was wrong

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I don’t see any benefit to scumreading skitter before she gives you good reasons to think she’s scum

You’re just making her less effective as town and you’re not likely to catch her anyway if she is scum (on D1 at least)

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Hi Lilith! You get a townpoint for figuring out the readslist first!

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Hi Lilith! You get a townpoint for figuring out the readslist first!

what? I said the same thing too. Dude

But you didn’t specify that it was ordered by the player names in post 0

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You get those anyway

VOTE: bingle

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Also hi bingle!

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I think the turkey might be scum, datisi might be scum, Lilith might be scum, and bingle might be scum

Choose in those 4 names

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I really want MariaR to be town so I’m not voting for her today, just putting that out there

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Oh, I forgot that I’m also townreading PB

I may be drinking a lil bit

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Feeling really surprisingly good about bingle!scum

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All my attempts to formulate a logic system for reads have failed miserably, including some alt experiments, so I’m reverting to my old “scumhunting”’ process

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I need to check something but I’m not sure town!bingle enters with a joke but then immediately diverted into mech talk

Just doesn’t seem to jam for me:

Either (1) we have chill bingle who wants to hang out and shitpost and joke or

(2) we have serious bingle who wants to mechtalk and optimise for a win

I do wanna check something though

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Wow deadlines are really long this game

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I say we give bingle a few days of being alive despite his red role PM

Also,

if we get unanimous agreement could we theoretically maybe lower the deadline to 10 days?

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When this game starts to get serious so will I

I need to check something but I’m not sure town!bingle enters with a joke but then immediately diverted into mech talk

Just doesn’t seem to jam for me:

Either (1) we have chill bingle who wants to hang out and shitpost and joke or

(2) we have serious bingle who wants to mechtalk and optimise for a win

I do wanna check something though

i don't think that the two things are incompatible?
i think that town!bingle would be sure to share the mech-talk cuz he'd think it's important, and that scum!bingle would do the same because town!bingle would

i don't view the joke as being relevant to this or anything

I think it’s a tonal clash but I’ll reconsider it once sober and once I check *things*

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I'm kinda hard townreading datisi now and I'm not sure how I feel about it.

Why?

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Have a good weekend skitt

@bingle if datisi is ever liable to be a cheeky scumfuck it’s probably this game

She’s also conspicuously absent rn

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She’s also conspicuously absent rn

yes? and that tells you what?

Well you’re apparently not super hyped which is kinda what I’d expect given the PL, but also I know that being conspicuously ~*breezy*~ can be hard for you as scum and not posting means you don’t have to try to replicate that

Plus I didn’t say you were scum I said you could be scum, there’s an important difference. You’re kinda too early to call yet

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Pure boi are you really scumreading fb and if so why?

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what....

this playerlist is like allstars. what u talking willis

Wait me? I don’t understand the question

Have I drunk too much? Maybe

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Oh I meant as in like

I would expect her to be hyped

I expressed it wrong

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@dats I did but I wanna do more and let it settle

And idk if I totally believe that on this occasion because while the PL is stacked there’s also a bunch of people here who you know and who I’d expect you to be fine being shitposty with. Plus idk why town you would be worried when you know that I’d end up hard townreading you if you started posting a lot and then I’d be able to hard defend you as town

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Pure boi are you really scumreading fb and if so why?

Are you not?

Not really, why would I be?

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This game feels weirdly similar to https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=52&t=81049 in a lot of ways.

How? I don’t feel it but maybe that’s because I’m not scum this time

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This game feels weirdly similar to https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=52&t=81049 in a lot of ways.

skitter

when you get back from the weekend can you say if you agree here or not

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You get those anyway

VOTE: bingle

I think the turkey might be scum, datisi might be scum, Lilith might be scum, and bingle might be scum

Choose in those 4 names

Where did these come from

Gut. Turkey isn’t being town yet in a way that I would expect from him, datisi is dubious but not obvtowning which means she may be scum, I didn’t really like your entrance, bingle I already explained but there was kind of a tonal clash between his opening and his immediate move onto mechanics

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can we get more votes on penguin please

Why?

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Have you had a towngame since you got back on site Lilith?

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I thought you were also friendly with skitter/alyssa/turkey? But okay yeah point taken I don’t know how friendly you are with everyone else, but I guess I thought it was a fairly high level due to your site presence.

I don’t know what’s you’re saying about my read rate on you tbh, I think my readrate on your

when you obvtown

is very good. My only problems with reading you have been times when you haven’t done that. Would you say that you’ve been towny this game to a point where I should be reading you with confidence?

Yeah, fair point that it might have been a little rude, sorry. I didn’t mean it as a specific me-defending-you thing so much as that you wouldn’t need to worry so much about people misreading you because at least if you were being v towny there would be SOMEONE who was on your side.

Whereas one of my concerns is that you /not/ being obvtowny or hyperposty is that you know I can read that well (I don’t think you’d disagree with that?) and so you not doing that is weird to me because why wouldn’t you make it obvious you’re town when you can do so? Whereas I basically can’t make people think I’m obvtown anymore and I miss that

Yeah, I don’t think there’s any reason to townread me yet beyond pure mathematical chance. Although I’m not sure if scum!me would have bothered to give you an answer this thought out so *shrug*

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Good choice for counter wagon Menalque. Bingle still scum

Hmm? Why do you think bingle is scum btw?

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Only I don’t think that’s totally true because I think we can all think back to games like autumnal where in lylo there was a fair amount of doubt on everyone while I was calling you town from the dead PT and saying that I was being modtrolled rather than accept scum!you. When you’re hyperposting I don’t think I’ve ever been wrong on you, but if I have then you can point me to the game because I might have forgotten. I think the problem is I have caught you as scum but I’ve also had false positives on catching you as scum (also yes obviously when I’m scum I act like I’m not sure you’re town or you’re not being townie even when you are) but I just want you to be obvtown (even if it’s just to me) so that I can not have to think about your slot more + not be paranoid about you

Okay but by your own admission you weren’t roosting in a towny way in 1992 so that’s not really a fair benchmark for comparison. I feel like your hyperposting is a mix honestly, I know a lot is interacting with stuff but some of it is also shitposting

Err probably because I sometimes ignore shit as scum to avoid having to make up bullshit answers. And here I’d probably just be avoiding stuff that was hard to do in favour of posting a lot and just having presence

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@lilith oh I got the order of events mixed up in my head then, I thought I’d only voted him after the second post

I can’t remember exactly what I was thinking but it may have just been that his entrance was a reference to something in the game but not to anything beyond that

Also kinda seems like the sort of cheeky shit that scumgle would say after rolling scum

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Were you actually in the mini normal where you said you clocked S_S as scum after 5 posts?

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Yeah I won’t really bother with partition then. Why do you think PP is scum, Lilith?

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I don’t really feel like fighting and honestly it feels like that’s sort of what you’re spoiling for @dats

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I find it really weird when you’ve made comments about PoEing me on my read on you that there’s now like 2(?) games in a row where you’re arguing that I don’t have better reads on you than anyone else

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Yeah I meant to say BoP

In that mini normal wasn’t that an important part of your SR on me?

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Oh you mean the 2 games in a row?

This one + furret’s pt2

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I can’t remember if you shit on my ability to read you in 1992 but I think possibly there as well

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@mena how do you feel about your one scumread gobbles joining you on the wagon of your other scumread bingle

Not sure yet, I kinda wanna see more from gobbles before I commit on him

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Finally, one for Menalque.

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Ffs

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If you’re posting from a computer then that’s cheating

Also doesn’t count if you set yourself up, everyone knows those are the rules

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Lilith is scum.

Are you disappointed in yourself for not managing to flashlynch me within 5 pages despite me trying to help?

Also, why?

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@fb

can we get more votes on penguin please

Why?

he shaded chemist and you in a way that pinged me, like it looked more like trying to blend in than actually scumreading you. he said “chemist is scum” but didn’t follow that up with any push or vote. i’d say same goes for his post on you but he was already on your wagon from rvs. idk, just the whole thing doesn’t feel right to me

i guess also @mena, do you have any thoughts on what i said here

Nah, not really, at least not that I wanna share yet

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I rly wish skitt and S_S were around

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Unless I’m mistaken, datisi isn’t actually scumreading me rn just objecting to my claim that I can read her well

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Why ya scumreading me binglefinglebingleboi?

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Were you actually in the mini normal where you said you clocked S_S as scum after 5 posts?

i wasn’t in the game, no. i was poking around his games and reading some of his posts after i came back on site

hey mena just curious where this question was going?

Just cause it was another full length game where you were town, meaning your meta would be semi-checkable. One game worth of meta isn’t that useful.

That said I’m trying to move away from second hand meta in a “hard” sense and more to just get an impression

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I mean I highly doubt skitter would be scumreading me now (although now I’ve said that she might have The Paranoia kicking in)

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Re: 341 okay, what pinged about those 3 posts?

Where did I dismiss dats and call her scum, bingle? The closest thing I can think of was me saying that I didn’t want to fight and then her saying she also didn’t want to do that but other than that I can’t see how I was dismissing her. And she’s not in a clear read point for me atm, but I also didn’t call her scum beyond saying she was very mild scum much earlier

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This game feels weirdly similar to https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=52&t=81049 in a lot of ways.

How? I don’t feel it but maybe that’s because I’m not scum this time

I don't mean that the play of individuals seems the same but rather that the progression D1 has taken feels a lot like that game. I think it's likely that scum is in the more active side of the playerlist and tacitly supporting one another.

In this case, if my theory is right, you'd be the skitter of that game and gobbles would be the you of that game.

It's pretty tinfoil-y, but that is my impression atm.



Also, I wanted to link the game to see who would actually take the time to look at it and what their responses would be.

So why are you voting me and arguing I’m scum if I’m the skitter of that game and not gobbles?

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I read some of detective penguin when I was in c9++ I think, but I haven’t been scum with bingle, no

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Spoiler: Dismissive and not engage-y

I think the turkey might be scum, datisi might be scum, Lilith might be scum, and bingle might be scum

Choose in those 4 names

Have a good weekend skitt

@bingle if datisi is ever liable to be a cheeky scumfuck it’s probably this game

She’s also conspicuously absent rn

She’s also conspicuously absent rn

yes? and that tells you what?

Well you’re apparently not super hyped which is kinda what I’d expect given the PL, but also I know that being conspicuously ~*breezy*~ can be hard for you as scum and not posting means you don’t have to try to replicate that

Plus I didn’t say you were scum I said you could be scum, there’s an important difference. You’re kinda too early to call yet

Post 87 was very political, not in the order of people addressed but in what you said about them. Particularly Skitts/Dats/Turkey feels like there's an agenda to what was said.

98 continues said agenda on skitts.

140 feels like a completely made up reason to suspect me, and not one I'd expect to come from town you.

And voting the person I legitimately scumread over the person that could maybe be scum based on a tinfoil feeling about the similarity of this game and another, particularly when said scumread already has a wagon should be fairly self explanatory.

Bingle i literally wrote that post before the game started as a joke. I think I altered your entry because you hadn’t posted but otherwise I literally came up with the whole thing in advance.

What agenda are you talking about lmao, you mean the same approach I’ve taken with skitter in literally every game since our first!?

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If it helps, Dats, in this playerlist I think Maria, Gobbles and BB are the only people who I know have played with scum me and BB is the only person who I expect to have any real reads accuracy wrt my slot.

Wow, convenient

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Oh wait you mean ank, I thought you meant molla lol

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I thought you were saying that only 3 people on site had played scum with you and that BB is the only one who could read you of those three and conveniently wasn’t in the game

Then realised that the math didn’t add up at all on the first bit and reread the post

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I wouldn’t say I’m rattled, I’m just starting to come round to the idea that I actually have caught scum!you D1 and it tickles me

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Anyone who knows skitt knows that hard townreading her for no good reason is not how you buddy her

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Re: 341 okay, what pinged about those 3 posts?

Where did I dismiss dats and call her scum, bingle? The closest thing I can think of was me saying that I didn’t want to fight and then her saying she also didn’t want to do that but other than that I can’t see how I was dismissing her. And she’s not in a clear read point for me atm, but I also didn’t call her scum beyond saying she was very mild scum much earlier

I take it 347 was responding to the first bit of this, but what about the second part re: datisi?

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Pure boi and fb what are your reads on bingle again?

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Anyone who knows skitt knows that hard townreading her for no good reason is not how you buddy her

But that's not what you're doing. You're saying you're going to ignore her alignment and treat her as town which will therefore let her do her thing.

We've already collectively addressed that the order of your readslist is meaningless.

(1) ehhh, no, not exactly. I said I’m going to treat her as town pending evidence that she’s not. If I come to have concerns about skitt later, I’ll air and explain them. But the easiest way to do that is treating her as town and trying to solve with her

(2) I don’t... see how this is relevant to what I asked?

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Fb do you think bingle’s take on my interaction with datisi (341) are good faith?

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Re: 341 okay, what pinged about those 3 posts?

Where did I dismiss dats and call her scum, bingle? The closest thing I can think of was me saying that I didn’t want to fight and then her saying she also didn’t want to do that but other than that I can’t see how I was dismissing her. And she’s not in a clear read point for me atm, but I also didn’t call her scum beyond saying she was very mild scum much earlier

I take it 347 was responding to the first bit of this, but what about the second part re: datisi?

Those posts in the helpfully labeled spoiler are the ones that struck me as calling datisi scum and not trying to engage with her to determine her alignment followed by a walkback of the read when she pushed back.

Anyone who knows skitt knows that hard townreading her for no good reason is not how you buddy her

But that's not what you're doing. You're saying you're going to ignore her alignment and treat her as town which will therefore let her do her thing.

We've already collectively addressed that the order of your readslist is meaningless.

(2) I don’t... see how this is relevant to what I asked?

I said you sounded like you were buddying skitter, you said hard townreading skitter is not the way to buddy skitter. I pointed out that that is not what you're doing, because the only point where you 'hard townread' skitter is by putting her at the top of that list. I'm not sure where the confusion about why I would point that out comes from.

(1) but like... that was all from before dats elaborated on her process for getting engaged? And so after it did (plus her engaging with me) I eased back a little bit. How is that scummy to you?

(2) I was confused as I thought that bit was also in relation to dats not to skitt

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yeah i vibe with that
you don't think this game feels similar?

I do not, at all really

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emember that newbie we played a few months back?
wherein you were a mason and we both thought dats was scum for playing like this and i mislynched him and he turned out to be town?

yeah that's why i'm not scumreading him for how he's playing rn

and i'm lowkey confused why you think this behavior is scum-indicative for him

Because posting reticence definitely used to be a scumtell and maybe I’m pushing it a little early/maybe it’s become less of a tell as dats has become more burned out due to not taking a break, but it still kinda pings me when dats doesn’t enter the game as one of the highest posters /of her own volition/ instead of needing to be poked into it

But I think the explanation makes sense and I feel a bit better since talking to her so I’m leaving it alone

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idk it does kinda feel similar to me

How so?

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Firepup I'm not in the mood of being scumread could you not do it please?

this is a weird post

I don’t really see this either, how is this weird?

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What did you think of bingle’s read on me skitt? Refer to 341

I assume you read my back and forth with dats. Does this seem to you like a good faith interpretation?

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i feel like i've seen dats post this way a few times as town so i think it's nai

wrt to the game:
- similar Awesomeness of pl's
- player overlap
- similar setiup

Oh right, I guess the game just doesn’t actually feel like it’s unfolding similarly which is what I thought bingle was implying, as further evidenced by his “you’re skitter from that game, gobbles is you”

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Firepup I'm not in the mood of being scumread could you not do it please?

this is a weird post

I don’t really see this either, how is this weird?

it's a weird thing to say

I don’t see it. I think it’s a pretty normal thing for Pb to say (and that’s part of why I <3 him)

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Nb: the never ending story can continue just as soon as I reach full confidence you aren’t scum, pure boi

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I’m not sure I like your Maria take very much either skitt, can you talk me through it a bit more

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Like, god knows, I’m not the person who should be sheeped on Maria, but I don’t see scum her yet and I think fb is calling her town and I’m willing to sheep that for now

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Btw why is datisi lowkey townie as of 174?

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Can I suggest reading bingle’s posting so far?

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reaction post to your meme readslist

Yeah, okay, I jive with this, that did give me good pings

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I’m getting slightly bad vibes from Blake repeating that her reads are low confidence

Chem what did you think of bingle’s take on dats and me?

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Maria, when you get back can you give me your read on the turkey pls?

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Why did you vote pingüino > turkey in 423?

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@blake I’m happy for you to sit back if it helps you to get a better grasp on the game but I’d like you have offered hard takes on as many slots as possible when we’re halfway - 70% of the way to deadline

Would that work for you?

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I pay lots of attention to you. What’s your tske on bingle? Specifically the thing that I’m asking lots of people to comment on, his portrayal of what happened between me and dats?

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Can I suggest reading bingle’s posting so far?

yeah i had good feels before i left for the weekend but reading the stuff he posted since i'm not as certain about, i need to talk to him i think

Hmm

Okay

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Okay I’m going to sleep now though so we’ll have to continue this tomorrow

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Let the penguin pick

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Pure boi u should at 496 and 498

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Ooooooh that's fun we should all play 2 trues 1 lie!!

Okay you start

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mena what are you hoping to achieve with asking everyone how they're reading our interaction and bingle's interpretation

I want to check whether my own perception of bingle’s take on our interaction as bad faith is accurate, and then to get people to vote him if they agree it was a bad faith representation of what happened between us because I don’t have memories of town!bingoe acting in bad faith (which re: your other point — I’ve played with town!bingle in at least 3 games and this feels sort of different. Then again, that might be bc I was scum in all those other games, which is why I want to check the accuracy of my perception)

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i'm not sure that scum!gobble starts by picking a fight with jingle

But I don’t think he is picking a fight with bingle?

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I don’t really think that pingüino has done anything AI yet

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@lilith my thing on skitt in that post is one of the (maybe the) only things that was serious

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reaction post to your meme readslist

Yeah, okay, I jive with this, that did give me good pings

okay but right after that reaction post was when you said datisi might be scum? how does that compute

That post was mild townping but not out of what dats might do as scum. The thing I was giving them the “maybe scum” read for was about overall engagement up to that point

@mena you didn’t ask me my take on the bingle thing (thingle?) but ftr i think he’s taken that approach to more than just your posts

as in, i don’t think it’s necessarily bad faith (although it could be), i could see a world where town!bingle is misreading everyone’s signals because he’s off on his own wavelength

Yeah, I’ve been working through people to hear what they think. Would you say I was dismissive of datisi in those posts then? Because I feel like in your posts afterwards you give the impression that you don’t think I was like that. How do you think bingle, if town, got mixed up there?

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i think his mena read makes sense and comes from a townie perspective,

Go on

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I don’t really feel like fighting and honestly it feels like that’s sort of what you’re spoiling for @dats

rereading, did you really think i was picking a fight (assuming that's what that means)? and what does that tell you?

I felt like you were being abrasive rather than trying to work with me. In terms of what it means idk but it felt similar to how you were interacting with me in furret’s pt2 which makes me not really want to get into it further

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Is there a world where scum you intentionally fights with me because you know I don’t enjoy that to make me disengage and specifically not want to engage with you so that I don’t get to a read on you? Yes, sure. I just don’t think that’s that likely vs you actually believing that i can’t read you for shit and deciding to take issue with that/maybe being in a bad mood I guess

It just has the same end result of me it really wanting to interact if I feel like you’re just going to shit on my play, which is what it feels like when you say I can’t read you despite there being multiple games where I have done so correctly, and it only starting to become a problem since you started interacting with me in a more paranoid manner/being more aggressive from the start rather than trying to solve with me or shitpost with me

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Will you ever reach that confidence, Dustybun?? We did a great job in that newbie we repped in, I'd love to reach that

I’d settle for the level I got to in furret’s, although yeah, that newbie was great Re:that

Did we win there? I don’t remember

I think you’re town this game so far btw

[Menalque]

I’m about as good at reading Blake as I am at reading you, which is to say terrible, but so far I’d agree with her self-assessment that’s she’s done nothing AI so far.

[Menalque]

Who, out of interest? Yeah, I’ll try but I try that with pb and he still ends up pocketing me every time so *shrug*

I can’t read most people with a particularly high degree of accuracy anyway, I’m just trying to make my peace with that.

Back to the game: you’ve been scum with Lilith, what’s your tske on her here?

[Menalque]

Did you play before she took her break? I feel uneasy about her although I can’t put my finger on exactly why. I think it might be that she seems hedgey and I’m not sure if she’s like that as town but she definitely can be as scum

[Menalque]

Hi S_S, i take it that you’re now caught up, what was your impression of bingle’s take on me and datisi arguing?

[Menalque]

not dismiss her and call her scum

Did you think this was a fair/good faith portrayal of my interaction with datisi?

[Menalque]

Where are you thinking scum is likely to be then S_S? Or alternatively, what do you think scum is likely to be doing?

[Menalque]

Spoiler:

She’s also conspicuously absent rn

yes? and that tells you what?

Well you’re apparently not super hyped which is kinda what I’d expect given the PL, but also I know that being conspicuously ~*breezy*~ can be hard for you as scum and not posting means you don’t have to try to replicate that

Plus I didn’t say you were scum I said you could be scum, there’s an important difference. You’re kinda too early to call yet

@dats I did but I wanna do more and let it settle

And idk if I totally believe that on this occasion because while the PL is stacked there’s also a bunch of people here who you know and who I’d expect you to be fine being shitposty with. Plus idk why town you would be worried when you know that I’d end up hard townreading you if you started posting a lot and then I’d be able to hard defend you as town

I thought you were also friendly with skitter/alyssa/turkey? But okay yeah point taken I don’t know how friendly you are with everyone else, but I guess I thought it was a fairly high level due to your site presence.

I don’t know what’s you’re saying about my read rate on you tbh, I think my readrate on your

when you obvtown

is very good. My only problems with reading you have been times when you haven’t done that. Would you say that you’ve been towny this game to a point where I should be reading you with confidence?

Yeah, fair point that it might have been a little rude, sorry. I didn’t mean it as a specific me-defending-you thing so much as that you wouldn’t need to worry so much about people misreading you because at least if you were being v towny there would be SOMEONE who was on your side.

Whereas one of my concerns is that you /not/ being obvtowny or hyperposty is that you know I can read that well (I don’t think you’d disagree with that?) and so you not doing that is weird to me because why wouldn’t you make it obvious you’re town when you can do so? Whereas I basically can’t make people think I’m obvtown anymore and I miss that

Yeah, I don’t think there’s any reason to townread me yet beyond pure mathematical chance. Although I’m not sure if scum!me would have bothered to give you an answer this thought out so *shrug*

Only I don’t think that’s totally true because I think we can all think back to games like autumnal where in lylo there was a fair amount of doubt on everyone while I was calling you town from the dead PT and saying that I was being modtrolled rather than accept scum!you. When you’re hyperposting I don’t think I’ve ever been wrong on you, but if I have then you can point me to the game because I might have forgotten. I think the problem is I have caught you as scum but I’ve also had false positives on catching you as scum (also yes obviously when I’m scum I act like I’m not sure you’re town or you’re not being townie even when you are) but I just want you to be obvtown (even if it’s just to me) so that I can not have to think about your slot more + not be paranoid about you

Okay but by your own admission you weren’t roosting in a towny way in 1992 so that’s not really a fair benchmark for comparison. I feel like your hyperposting is a mix honestly, I know a lot is interacting with stuff but some of it is also shitposting

Err probably because I sometimes ignore shit as scum to avoid having to make up bullshit answers. And here I’d probably just be avoiding stuff that was hard to do in favour of posting a lot and just having presence

@bingle I don’t remember if I’d made the final 2 posts by the time you called me dismissive of datisi but even with only the first two in this spoiler I’m struggling to see how you see this pretty straight up engagement with her as “dismissive”

[Menalque]

It’s also pretty clearly not me calling her scum: see the first post “you’re kind too early to call yet”

[Menalque]

VOTE: turkey

[Menalque]

L-2

[Menalque]

@blake is there anyone in the PL you’re historically good at reading well?

[Menalque]

they don't exactly give me the vibe of wanting to work together? especially when you know my first instinct when i feel like i'm unfairly attacked is to bite back? like, you're also starting off with a "paranoid"/aggressive outlook of "datisi is absent from the thread", "not posting in order not to have to fake it" etc which like am i supposed to react positively to that?

This is fair. I went back and reread them and while they weren’t actually me being aggressive I can see how you could see them that way. It was more me airing concerns about your opening (or lack thereof) without considering how you might see them.

[Menalque]

It sounds like you're saying that my thoughts don't divide everyone neatly into a "town" or "scum" box, and that's bad.

S_S, think about what you’re saying here and tell me you seriously think skitt does this

[Menalque]

Menalque is town.
MariaR is town.
Firebringer is town.
Bingle is town.

Something_Smart and Datisi are the slots that I need more time on to be certain I lose all interest in lynching them today.

Huh

Do you disagree with any of this?

[Menalque]

@chem what are your reads?

[Menalque]

@blake would you vote turkey?

[Menalque]

@PP what are your reads?

[Menalque]

that's kind of a weird vote to make, skitt

[Menalque]

y

seems weird that you're ducking out onto chem right after I asked him for reads

just like, kind of pre-emptive and given what I know of chemist if he's town then him feeling pressured on re-entry is going to make him feel less like playing and make him more Lynch baity

basically, I think chem could be scum here and that's why I wanted him to give some reads and to try to engage him. and I feel like you voting him right as I'm trying to get his engagement up is liable to make it harder for him if he's not scum to get into the game

[Menalque]

Menalque, you are serious about your vote on me?

yis

[Menalque]

seems weird that you're ducking out onto chem right after I asked him for reads

just like, kind of pre-emptive and given what I know of chemist if he's town then him feeling pressured on re-entry is going to make him feel less like playing and make him more Lynch baity

basically, I think chem could be scum here and that's why I wanted him to give some reads and to try to engage him. and I feel like you voting him right as I'm trying to get his engagement up is liable to make it harder for him if he's not scum to get into the game

Does Chemist usually feel pressured after getting just one vote?

I have a model of how chemist plays that has traditionally been fairly accurate and I think in this situation him coming back to votes would do that potentially, yes

[Menalque]

basically, I think chem could be scum here and that's why I wanted him to give some reads and to try to engage him. and I feel like you voting him right as I'm trying to get his engagement up is liable to make it harder for him if he's not scum to get into the game

i feel like i should have something to say about this but i don't know what

fwiw I have a very different model of you than of chem but maybe it needs updating

[Menalque]

how many of my mislynches would it take for you to update it

I mean I think I'll already be updating it based on this game so long as you are actually town

[Menalque]

I will be providing a full readslist

soon

which should clear things up

[Menalque]

who was the unvote there, by the way?

[Menalque]

This game now feels really different to how it did like 24-48 hours ago

[Menalque]

Yes... miscounted...

Okay, PP was the name I was looking for.

[Menalque]

MariaR did you know what the real VC was there?

[Menalque]

Maybe I did, maybe I didn’t

[Menalque]

@PP what are your reads?

Mostly nothing, but I don't think I want to lynch my birdfriend anymore.

Why is that?

[Menalque]

What’s your position on bingle again?

[Menalque]

Oh, I meant more: have you got a read on him thus far this game based on how he’s actually playing?

I know he gets a special tier

[Menalque]

MariaR did you know what the real VC was there?

Hmm, okay.
No. Not that it would've mattered if he was at l-5 or l-1 I would've voted regardless.

@mena so about chemist ...

Lol, i take your point but still bear with me a minute?

[Menalque]

While I appreciate the lols, could you also let me know where you’re up to and maybe some reads?

[Menalque]

@blake, could you give explanations for the 4 reads you have earlier?

[Menalque]

I am willing to bet actual, real life money that it's not (skitt, chem, bingleboi)

[Menalque]

I mean, I wouldn't because that's against the rules, but in a hypothetical world where we were able to then I would.

[Menalque]

How do you think scum would approach this game, skitter?

As in, lots of fairly/very strong players, a couple of people known for being a bit more chilled out and just fun to play with as opposed to highly game-solving motivated.

[Menalque]

I am willing to bet actual, real life money that it's not (skitt, chem, bingleboi)

This isnt the exact scumteam or you're townreading all of these people?

Deferring answering this to when I post my readslist

[Menalque]

Oh when I say mixed feelings I don't mean that's the solve, they're indenendent mixed feelings. There are other slots I haven't looked that could be part of those mixed or better yet, become scumreads. Like lillith and Something Smart. And gobble and Datisi.

Talk to me about lilith and Datisi? Where's your head at on those 2 slots.

[Menalque]

I apologise for the reticence but I don't think it benefits town for me to be totally honest about how I'm reading (or, if not honest, maybe transparent) people until it comes time to out those reads and I feel more confident in some of them.

[Menalque]

How do you think scum would approach this game, skitter?

As in, lots of fairly/very strong players, a couple of people known for being a bit more chilled out and just fun to play with as opposed to highly game-solving motivated.

Worm into a townbloc
Try to have some say in how the mechanics are going to go down
Be one of the chill players

Are these individual scum team goals? And why the last one?

[Menalque]

Oh when I say mixed feelings I don't mean that's the solve, they're indenendent mixed feelings. There are other slots I haven't looked that could be part of those mixed or better yet, become scumreads. Like lillith and Something Smart. And gobble and Datisi.

Talk to me about lilith and Datisi? Where's your head at on those 2 slots.

Nowhere, that's my point. I haven't held back anything about them. That's not odd about Datisi so I'm fine with that, and I don't know much about lilith so I'm fine with it too.

Oh, I kinda meant could you take a look now and then let me know what you're thinking.

[Menalque]

or what your impressions are @pb

[Menalque]

only 2 ISOs! and one of them is only like 40 posts!

[Menalque]

datisi, what are your reads?

[Menalque]

bingle town
lil/PB/blake probtown
i remember at one point saying to myself "townpoints to maria" for something

can you try to explain these ones to me pls?

[Menalque]

skitt, if you think those are the things that scum would be trying to do, who do you think is trying to do them?

[Menalque]

you feel weirdly "tryhard" in an odd way and i'm not sure what to make of it

hi, menalque, have we met?

[Menalque]

why is it so important if it was a pressure vote or not?

[Menalque]

bingle town
lil/PB/blake probtown
i remember at one point saying to myself "townpoints to maria" for something

can you try to explain these ones to me pls?

bingle is partly explained in 603, and partly while i am often a very good pocket, scum usually isn't this blatantly blatant about it

all the others are Gut(tm)

you feel weirdly "tryhard" in an odd way and i'm not sure what to make of it

hi, menalque, have we met?

hi, yeah, you keep giving me 892 vibes for whatever reason. also like in 856 i asked you something and that's got ignored (though others have ignored my question from that post too so maybe it's not you who knows) but 10 posts later you're spamming questions and it kinda feels like busyowrk and i don't like it.

okay, but what about those 3 gives you gut reads on them and not on others? like what in their posting has given you those gut reads?

yeah, I saw, I just didn't feel like answering because I wanted to talk to other people at that point. the answer is: not sure. sorry. I imagine that when I do my readslist it will help me clarify where exactly bingle is for me atm

[Menalque]

why is it so important if it was a pressure vote or not?

It helps me understand skitter’s point of view on Chemist

why do you think you're struggling to get a grasp on the gamestate, skitt?

[Menalque]

okay, but what about those 3 gives you gut reads on them and not on others? like what in their posting has given you those gut reads?

would it still be gut reads if i were able to explain it with logic and whatnot?

also, your readslist better be damn good how much you're hyping it up.

I don't want it explained with logic, but like if I'm giving a gut read I can normally still point to which posts helped contribute to it and give an idea of what it was that was in them that hit me one way or another, so I'm just looking for that basically

[Menalque]

okay, but what about those 3 gives you gut reads on them and not on others? like what in their posting has given you those gut reads?

would it still be gut reads if i were able to explain it with logic and whatnot?

also, your readslist better be damn good how much you're hyping it up.

ignore the last period now it looks more aggressive than intended and i don't like it

Regarding the last line, you’d be surprised how much that happens.

[Menalque]

also, regarding my readslist:

would you guys prefer a few medium sized posts or one monster sized post

NB: may not, in fact, reach true monster size should that option be selected

[Menalque]

why do you think you're struggling to get a grasp on the gamestate, skitt?

i don't know
i feel oddly disengaged from it
like a lot of things feel fluffy and i haven't really felt like i found something to like ~latch~ on to
i'm working on it but i don't have super many super great reads and i'm aware of that
like i just feel like a lot of people have posted a lot of stuff but that a lot of it isn't ai

can you think of any other town games you struggled to get into in a similar way?

I find it a little weird that you have ideas of what your think scum would like to do in a game like this but can't find people you think are doing those things, tbh

[Menalque]

Menalque what’s your lean on Datisi right now

you're not gonna like this, but again, prefer not to say

[Menalque]

Ok... do you think Datisi is being passive right now

yes

[Menalque]

but are there other people doing them too or just those two?

[Menalque]

no those were just an example, i could fit like at least half the pl into some of those categories

would you mind doing so, and also finding that game for me as a relative priority because I just looked through the newbies you were in in last September and I can't find any where I would describe you as "struggling to get into the gamestate"

[Menalque]

thanks datisi

I'm legit sad you feel that way (as in that I was going to push you for that if you didn't respond)

ftr I had no idea that you were recently online and hadn't had that thought at all, regardless of what my read on you is

[Menalque]

thanks, skitt

I'm nearly done, I promise, who do you think I'm trying to pocket is the only thing that occurs to me based on that?

[Menalque]

interesting, that's the first one I looked at and thought you came across as much more into that game than this one

pedit: sorry, bad phrasing. I just wanna know who you think I'm trying to pocket? that's the last question I think I have for you

[Menalque]

i felt it was gonna turn into that regardless of his alignment

up to you if you believe me or not but I wouldn't do that as scum unless I felt I had to

[Menalque]

i felt it was gonna turn into that regardless of his alignment

up to you if you believe me or not but I wouldn't do that as scum unless I felt I had to

would you do that as town?

I would if I thought it was scum!indicative for you, but I'd rather try to catch scum you differently

[Menalque]

like I feel like you've got the idea that scum!me likes picking fights with you (or maybe that I in general do) and that just makes me really sad

[Menalque]

i don't think so
i'm basically basing it off of pyp and city
and i was scum in both so that might be warping my perception
but you feel a lot more like city than pyp

What specifically feels more like City than PYP?

I'm sorry, just to clarify: the recently ended PYP or another one?

[Menalque]

Grazie. I'll be honest S_S, I'm not really going to try to sort you because I'm horrendous at doing so. Instead, I'm probably going to sheep someone who claims proficiency in reading you.

[Menalque]

Okay, I'm gonna lay my cards on the table before I go to sleep

Town:

Bingle

-- I am still a little iffy, quite frankly, about how he characterised my interaction with Datisi, but it didn't feel like a shitpush looking back at it. There's still some elements in his ISO that make me uneasy, like his hard townread on dats as of 148. I don't really care about/understand any of the mechanics so I haven't really read any of those posts. I'm hoping some town who's better than me at processing it can double check it, but I also kind of trust him that scum!him doesn't lie about mechanics anyway. He's not wrong that I kind of made up 140 (or at least made up the reasons even if the gut feel was really there). I agree with his take that in a world where he's town, the turkey could be sheeping along with my push. Reading back I'm still personally bugged by the way he seemed at times to be interacting with me in bad faith (see: 354 but after checking that with datisi, S_S) I think it's more likely me being over sensitive because he was calling me scum. If he is scum tho, and his partners aren't exactly (datisi, S_S) then I get to point out that he was, in fact, engaging me in bad faith and you guys should have backed me up. Ahem, I digress. I think the way he's clashing with me makes sense if he has a genuine scumread on me at the time he says he does, I like his shift onto gobbles because it came at a time I was thinking about doing the same thing but he pre-empted me, and honestly I don't think scum!him pushes

me

(knowing how much I hate being shitpushed and how tunnely and hyperposty I can be) for reasons as bad as the ones he gave when he was scumreading me. This may be a little arrogant: I don't care.

Datisi

-- I just feel like she's being honest in her interactions with me. Could she be faking being pissed off (or genuinely pissed off but bc she feels caught for the wrong reasons) at the beginning? Sure. Could she just be overall emotionally manipulating me to make me feel guilty for being uneasy on her? Also very possible. But fuck if this doesn't just feel like town!datisi. I think skitter is right too that her being sort of passive may actually be a towntell, with her not trying too hard to get into the towncore.

Maria

-- called out both gobbles and skitter at times when I was thinking similar things about them being weird and/or scummy. if gobbles and skitter were to flip town then would be worth revisiting as possible pushing things that look optically scummy without being so. But mostly I jam with those reads at the times when they came.

slightly weaker town:

fb

-- I would feel better about this if he actually produced his analyses of 3 players including a faked one. As I'm writing this I'm kind of realising that I don't have as clear reasons for townreading him as I thought and so I've moved him into this weak town category instead of letting him sit with the other three. There's, to an extent, the same thing happening with pure boi -- he's townier than the people at the bottom and there can only be so many scum. If there were a couple of town flips there, he'd definitely be someone to revisit. Overall, I feel this level of presence reminds me of him being town. I am cautious about that too though, as I've never seen scum!him, I don't think. There are bits of solving in ISO that look genuine to me too (see: 283, 294, 296, 516, 636). So, in conclusion: remembered him as town, couldn't put my finger on why, looked at his ISO as part of making this readslist and now feel better about this read again. He'll probably be horrendously offended to be my 4th highest towered.

Townlean:

Blake

-- she really hasn't done enough for me to feel good about her being town but I liked her readslist a lot and it seemed to line up very well with mine. I think her seeing the game that similarly to me is probably enough for me to just leave her here for now. I wouldn't say this is locked in, but I'd feel better if she lynches scum today.

Pure boi

-- idk, he doesn't feel manipulative to me here (not that he ever does so *shrug*). he's mostly in town lean because I do feel positively about him even if it's not for good reasons, and because there are a bunch of slots I feel worse about (and there's only 3 scum). A good place to revisit if 2/3 of my bottom 3 turn up town.

True null:

S_S

-- honestly he felt fine right at the beginning, but I didn't love his re-entry and what he seemed to focus on with his comments. He's someone I read as town when he's not (I've never successfully identified scum!S_S) but also someone liable to being pushed by scum when he's town because of his fairly idiosyncratic style. I'd err town here, honestly, if it weren't for me not liking his reads on the game. On the flip side, is the CW to my favourite take for scum who's being pushed by my top take for scum and another slot I feel uneasy about. Leaving him here for now, not interested in lynching today. Hoping to sheep someone good at reading him.

Scumlean:

skitter30

-- I really don't jam with skitter this game, and that's weird because in the past when we've both been town, we normally do. That being said, I think that mislynching skitter on D1 is basically a wet dream for scum, and so I'm not really interested in lynching here. I find it strange that she can't get to more solid reads given that she has got a conception of what she thinks scum would be doing, and that she won't narrow it down further.

chem

-- I haven't really seen him do anything in line with what I expect from town him. I think dodging and promising content later while being funny is much more in line with scum!chem then town!chem who I think does always try to provide reads even when he's strapped for time or not around or whatever. But being lurky on D1 is not necessarily a scumtell for chem and he often gets mislynched to it. Plausibly scum, but not really an ideal D1, I don't think.

Scum:

lilith2013

-- my weakest scumread of the three, but also I think playing an under-the-radar game while not being actually lurky. I've been intentionally ignoring her at points, and she doesn't really seem bothered by it which is lowkey something I'd expect from someone intersested in solving the game. There's quite a lot of her describing what's happened rather than analysing it imo (see: 376, 383). She's pushing bingle with cover from my push earlier, I think, which also twigs me as off. I think I could be wrong here because I have less experience with her, and I do tend a little towards scumreading those I have less experience with in PLs like this (there's like a brief golden period after 1-2 games played with someone where I feel good about it before I start getting really paranoid about being wrong on them in the future -- see: datisi, Iconeum, ducky). I overall get a strong vibe of her wanting to look like she's doing stuff without really doing stuff. It also pings me mildly that she felt the need to make 858 as I think town that's busy typically just is busy and tends to drop content in when they can rather than excuse their not being able to do so. It's not lockscumable imo, but it is a tell that I've used and had used against me in the past and that in conjunction with the other stuff is enough for her to be in my solve.

PP

-- seems to be flying under the radar and avoiding committing to things, even when directly asked. (see: me asking about bingle) Generally, he reminds me more of when I modded for scum!pinguino, and the overall approach there (do little proactive, be funny and sassy, respond when needed) than times when we've been town together (see: turret's bizarre adventure pt2 where I also think he was more pro-active). Notable that he was the first one to hop off when the turkey got to fake L-1.

turkey

-- when me and gobbles were fighting, he seemed happy to get onboard. His presence has generally been very weak, and he really reminds me here of how he approached his Team Mafia game. He's good enough as scum to fake it to an extent, but not to be excited. I agree with Maria that he lacks the intense conviction in what he's doing that he has when town.

[Menalque]

pureboi, Blake, firebringer, S_S, I would encourage some combination of you to help vote gobbles up to L-1 so we can get a claim, if you agree with my analysis

if not, please clarify why you don't

[Menalque]

He'll probably be horrendously offended to be my 4th highest towered.

i am horribly offended im not scum.

called it

[Menalque]

hey fb help me get a pagetop

[Menalque]

Okay, I'm gonna lay my cards on the table before I go to sleep

Town:

Bingle

-- I am still a little iffy, quite frankly, about how he characterised my interaction with Datisi, but it didn't feel like a shitpush looking back at it. There's still some elements in his ISO that make me uneasy, like his hard townread on dats as of 148. I don't really care about/understand any of the mechanics so I haven't really read any of those posts. I'm hoping some town who's better than me at processing it can double check it, but I also kind of trust him that scum!him doesn't lie about mechanics anyway. He's not wrong that I kind of made up 140 (or at least made up the reasons even if the gut feel was really there). I agree with his take that in a world where he's town, the turkey could be sheeping along with my push. Reading back I'm still personally bugged by the way he seemed at times to be interacting with me in bad faith (see: 354 but after checking that with datisi, S_S) I think it's more likely me being over sensitive because he was calling me scum. If he is scum tho, and his partners aren't exactly (datisi, S_S) then I get to point out that he was, in fact, engaging me in bad faith and you guys should have backed me up. Ahem, I digress. I think the way he's clashing with me makes sense if he has a genuine scumread on me at the time he says he does, I like his shift onto gobbles because it came at a time I was thinking about doing the same thing but he pre-empted me, and honestly I don't think scum!him pushes

me

(knowing how much I hate being shitpushed and how tunnely and hyperposty I can be) for reasons as bad as the ones he gave when he was scumreading me. This may be a little arrogant: I don't care.

Datisi

-- I just feel like she's being honest in her interactions with me. Could she be faking being pissed off (or genuinely pissed off but bc she feels caught for the wrong reasons) at the beginning? Sure. Could she just be overall emotionally manipulating me to make me feel guilty for being uneasy on her? Also very possible. But fuck if this doesn't just feel like town!datisi. I think skitter is right too that her being sort of passive may actually be a towntell, with her not trying too hard to get into the towncore.

Maria

-- called out both gobbles and skitter at times when I was thinking similar things about them being weird and/or scummy. if gobbles and skitter were to flip town then would be worth revisiting as possible pushing things that look optically scummy without being so. But mostly I jam with those reads at the times when they came.

slightly weaker town:

fb

-- I would feel better about this if he actually produced his analyses of 3 players including a faked one. As I'm writing this I'm kind of realising that I don't have as clear reasons for townreading him as I thought and so I've moved him into this weak town category instead of letting him sit with the other three. There's, to an extent, the same thing happening with pure boi -- he's townier than the people at the bottom and there can only be so many scum. If there were a couple of town flips there, he'd definitely be someone to revisit. Overall, I feel this level of presence reminds me of him being town. I am cautious about that too though, as I've never seen scum!him, I don't think. There are bits of solving in ISO that look genuine to me too (see: 283, 294, 296, 516, 636). So, in conclusion: remembered him as town, couldn't put my finger on why, looked at his ISO as part of making this readslist and now feel better about this read again. He'll probably be horrendously offended to be my 4th highest towered.

Townlean:

Blake

-- she really hasn't done enough for me to feel good about her being town but I liked her readslist a lot and it seemed to line up very well with mine. I think her seeing the game that similarly to me is probably enough for me to just leave her here for now. I wouldn't say this is locked in, but I'd feel better if she lynches scum today.

Pure boi

-- idk, he doesn't feel manipulative to me here (not that he ever does so *shrug*). he's mostly in town lean because I do feel positively about him even if it's not for good reasons, and because there are a bunch of slots I feel worse about (and there's only 3 scum). A good place to revisit if 2/3 of my bottom 3 turn up town.

True null:

S_S

-- honestly he felt fine right at the beginning, but I didn't love his re-entry and what he seemed to focus on with his comments. He's someone I read as town when he's not (I've never successfully identified scum!S_S) but also someone liable to being pushed by scum when he's town because of his fairly idiosyncratic style. I'd err town here, honestly, if it weren't for me not liking his reads on the game. On the flip side, is the CW to my favourite take for scum who's being pushed by my top take for scum and another slot I feel uneasy about. Leaving him here for now, not interested in lynching today. Hoping to sheep someone good at reading him.

Scumlean:

skitter30

-- I really don't jam with skitter this game, and that's weird because in the past when we've both been town, we normally do. That being said, I think that mislynching skitter on D1 is basically a wet dream for scum, and so I'm not really interested in lynching here. I find it strange that she can't get to more solid reads given that she has got a conception of what she thinks scum would be doing, and that she won't narrow it down further.

chem

-- I haven't really seen him do anything in line with what I expect from town him. I think dodging and promising content later while being funny is much more in line with scum!chem then town!chem who I think does always try to provide reads even when he's strapped for time or not around or whatever. But being lurky on D1 is not necessarily a scumtell for chem and he often gets mislynched to it. Plausibly scum, but not really an ideal D1, I don't think.

Scum:

lilith2013

-- my weakest scumread of the three, but also I think playing an under-the-radar game while not being actually lurky. I've been intentionally ignoring her at points, and she doesn't really seem bothered by it which is lowkey something I'd expect from someone intersested in solving the game. There's quite a lot of her describing what's happened rather than analysing it imo (see: 376, 383). She's pushing bingle with cover from my push earlier, I think, which also twigs me as off. I think I could be wrong here because I have less experience with her, and I do tend a little towards scumreading those I have less experience with in PLs like this (there's like a brief golden period after 1-2 games played with someone where I feel good about it before I start getting really paranoid about being wrong on them in the future -- see: datisi, Iconeum, ducky). I overall get a strong vibe of her wanting to look like she's doing stuff without really doing stuff. It also pings me mildly that she felt the need to make 858 as I think town that's busy typically just is busy and tends to drop content in when they can rather than excuse their not being able to do so. It's not lockscumable imo, but it is a tell that I've used and had used against me in the past and that in conjunction with the other stuff is enough for her to be in my solve.

PP

-- seems to be flying under the radar and avoiding committing to things, even when directly asked. (see: me asking about bingle) Generally, he reminds me more of when I modded for scum!pinguino, and the overall approach there (do little proactive, be funny and sassy, respond when needed) than times when we've been town together (see: turret's bizarre adventure pt2 where I also think he was more pro-active). Notable that he was the first one to hop off when the turkey got to fake L-1.

turkey

-- when me and gobbles were fighting, he seemed happy to get onboard. His presence has generally been very weak, and he really reminds me here of how he approached his Team Mafia game. He's good enough as scum to fake it to an extent, but not to be excited. I agree with Maria that he lacks the intense conviction in what he's doing that he has when town.

[Menalque]

Flat out lying about modding me dude.

with how you were or that I modded you?

[Menalque]

I genuinely can't tell if you're joking rn

[Menalque]

With how I was. Kinda stupid for me to argue about something that actually occurred

I thought you were joking, tbh.

[Menalque]

That was my impression of you there. I had another look at the game before I posted too, and I'd say it fits. I also think your aggression level here and desire to immediately call me scum is telling, but I'm willing to listen if you want to go into how you think I'm misrepresenting your play.

[Menalque]

With how I was. Kinda stupid for me to argue about something that actually occurred

I thought you were joking, tbh.

No. Like that game was one of the only scum games where I actually tried and made a big brained fake claim to try and see my team through. For you to describe me in this game as the same as that game is a flat out lie.

Serious.

I strongly disagree. I think behaviourally the two are incredibly similar, and I think you used the fakeclaim that you were (if memory serves forced into) as a shield to explain why you were behaving that way.

[Menalque]

It also pings me mildly that she felt the need to make 858 as I think town that's busy typically just is busy and tends to drop content in when they can rather than excuse their not being able to do so. It's not lockscumable imo, but it is a tell that I've used and had used against me in the past and that in conjunction with the other stuff is enough for her to be in my solve.

the thing is that i think that scum!her just doesn't bother popping in, which is why i think it's low-key townie

i dont' agree with much of your readslist and that's a bit troubling

I disagree. I think Lilith is a slightly insecure scum player (as can be seen in her approach in GnR:IV and her scum thread posting there) and I think it's exactly the sort of thing she might feel like she needs to justify to the thread, especially if she knows she may end up having some pop-ins but not be able to fully engage with people. I don't doubt that she's busy with work -- I doubt that town!her feels the need to preface her commentary with that.

What else do you disagree with and why?

[Menalque]

If you’re telling me you actually reviewed it and aren’t going off memory then yeah, you’re scum.

I'm going mostly off memory but I had a glance at your ISO there to double check, plus your ISO in furret's where I correctly TR you, and yeah, I think there's a significant difference. Fwiw, I also don't believe that town!you decides to instantly escalate like this with me either rather than try to show me how I'm wrong. I think that hard OMGUSing me is much easier for you as scum, and also would make sense if my scumreads are at least broadly correct because you'd need to discredit me.

[Menalque]

I'd like to let the thread to both react to my readslist and breathe a little (plus it's close to bedtime) so I'm going to step out for now and I'll be back tomorrow for some more spicy content.

[Menalque]

for reference:

scum!pinguino that I think feels similar to here https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... er_sort=Go

town!pinguino who I think doesn't https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... er_sort=Go

[Menalque]

What did you think were doc crumbs, skitt?

I went back through his ISO to look for the crumbs and thought he was crumbing vengeful based on the princess bride references

[Menalque]

I think that leashing killing roles is close to impossible the first night since there might be a bus driver

It might be better just to lynch him actually

+1, we still lynch gobbles today

I respect him trying to make a deal, but fundamentally he doesn’t have a town wincon and right now he’s in the weakest negotiating position. The more scum that die, the stronger the town position becomes and the weaker gobbles’ position becomes because we need him less and less to help. So there’s actually very little incentive for him as SK to help eliminate his top SRs. Equally, if we mislynch then his position becomes stronger because there’ll be a worry that we need to lynch scum and to try and deal with the SK later which is more likely to lead to some sort of weird kingmaker scenario in late game.

Scumhunting outside gobbles is fine now but we need to be willing to rewagon him to death by end of day. Talking of: VOTE: PP

[Menalque]

I am shocked they are not town reads!! Do you think we need to call their doctors?

@pb i thought he was softing doc, which is why i immediately protested the wagon like 3 posts later

No no, i saw this — which posts made you think he was softing doc?

[Menalque]

Oh wow I’m blind ignore me

[Menalque]

Skitt, what did you think of PP’s reaction to me calling him scum?

[Menalque]

Okay why, because pure boi and Maria said the same thing but I thought it was a really +scum reaction to have