Micro 944: A Normal Blitz III - Game Over

[HoldenGolden]

Spoiler: MSPAINT COMICS NUMBER II: THE ANGESTY SNATCHING

Deus Vult!

The Last Cursade ended with the tragic defeat at the hands of the most villianous

HumaneatingMonkey

who was found to be faking his converting to the holy side. His accompice, who due to an ongoing legal battle we cannot name, has already been slain in the name of the lord. Sadly, the vast amount of the holy see's forces were wiped out in this deadly conflict. Hence, welcome fresh bags of meat. You are no longer in a simple, "Mafia game", like a bunch of child flocking around a schoolyard. No, you are in the middle of a large scale war. And trust me, nothing bad ever happened in the third installment of things.

Now onto the business known as RANDOM SMITING STAGE (RSS). This is quite a simple part of our cursade to be honest. As we gather supplies, we vote to smite one of our flock on grounds of unfounded blasphemy! Now, I have seen a pattern emerge in these games, and I don't want to be pointing any fingers, but the heretical monkey keeps rolling scum. Surely if he won't convert in this life, he can do so in the heavenly dead thread.

VOTE: HumaneatingMonkey

[HoldenGolden]

Anyone who says Nay will get executed on grounds of treason.

[HoldenGolden]

OH NO THE EVILY CONCENTRATED BOTTLE OF BUGSPRAY IS BACK AS WELL!

[HoldenGolden]

I mean I already know who you are regardless based on the bugsprayyyy post so

[HoldenGolden]

I mean I already know who you are regardless based on the bugsprayyyy post so

wait do you know that i know?
VOTE: holdengolden for not telling me

No, I don't need to know your mind to understand the engima which is inutile.

Bugs are you scum with HEM this game? Honesty is the best policy.

[HoldenGolden]

guys this is random question stage supposely by you, not "combined prodding into the leader of the crusade" stage.

If you know who Intuile is, as claimed in your posts, then why do you need my help Bugspray? Or did you lie about knowing about who Intuile was?

@inutile I hate to inform you, but I am the one who is controlling your internet right now. This allows me to always post one step ahead. I suggest installing anti-donkeyware to prevent such a backdoor in your internet programs.

[HoldenGolden]

inutile is datisi probably?
im not surprised if some of the players here are actually mains of the alts that we played with.

HG, I'm town again. But you'll discover that soon enough.

Town again like the last three games we've played where you been scum?

[HoldenGolden]

also HG, how would you feel if I tell you not you're not a donkey — but a pony?

and pony rhymes with phony.

VOTE: HoldenGolden

No I am a mini-donkey. At least I self indenify as one.

[HoldenGolden]

looks like nonsense to me, tbh

i posted and then one minute later holdengolden posted and then neither of us posted for fifteen minutes and then i posted and one minute later holdengolden posted and then neither of us posted for half an hour and then i posted and one minute later holdengolden posted.

are you madoka?

i am a vanilla town.

What would be my motivation then as either alignment to do so?

This does feel very Madoka esk posts I will admit

[HoldenGolden]

What would be my motivation then as either alignment to do so?

as mafia your motivation would likely be to associate yourself with me, in much the same way that shiki's posts in blitz ii mirrored hiraki's posts. as town your motivation would likely be to see if i would notice you doing so? or to see if others would notice you doing so? this one is hazier.

how?

it means our posts are not coordinated. it is solely on holdengolden's end, that is why his posts followed mine each time. like he was waiting for me to post.

Why would I adopt scum!shiki's posting style supposely as scum? Why would I choose to start assoicating myself with you 15~ posts in when you could turn out to be a great mislynch candicate?

Why do you assume I am puposely doing this as a form of reaction test lol? Especially considering the reaction test wouldn't actually yeild any AI infomation.

[HoldenGolden]

Ok someone explain what I’m missing I was not in 1 or 2

Not much. HEM was scum both games. I lead cursades in both. Madoka was a player who, in blitz 1, had a tinfoil esk theory on me early into RVS.

[HoldenGolden]

Oopies sorry I was eating inutile. Can you post again so my assoication-town-intor can keep running?

Jokes aside, I don't think your supposed scum motivation for me to do so makes much sense. You would have to imply that I went into this game and made a concious effort to pull that type of play off given how quickly supposed scum!me did it.

Also you are not Shiki. I doubt Shiki would refer to herself in third person at the very end of that post towards me if she would claim who she is.

PEDIT: Monkey don't buy the alt claim. Something is wrong I can feel it.

[HoldenGolden]

Why is everyone flooding the thread with posts? Scum trying to make it harder for me to catch up?

Boy this is a blitz game.

Be fast or be square.

[HoldenGolden]

you come into games with prewritten posts and artwork to bless us with. also coming into the game planning to associate yourself with me, or deciding to do so with someone and choosing me once i began posting, does not seem out of the realm of possibility.

Funfact, the post's text this time was written after the game started.

Also Hi Datisi did you make an alt to get around the town PR curse?

======================
But why you?

If we are going around this as some sort of premediated plan, why would I target you instead of HEM for example? A player that I have mutiple games with that I could used further to buddy him as well?

I don't really buy this theory nor the alt claim.

pedit: Ahh, I can see your theory now. Still dont buy the alt claim

[HoldenGolden]

Who the guy who started posting in character but then dropped it and whined about being scumread for it? That’s scum

Who?

I don't think anyone has whined about being scum read?

[HoldenGolden]

Fishing for PRs now, are we, Holden?

Nah. Its public info that Datisi rolls PR everytime he plays with me.

I wouldn't be surprised if he made an alt just to get around his PR curse.

Do you normally shotgun style into everybody day 1?

[HoldenGolden]

Crusaders cannot fish expect with holy metal hooks. I decree so

FOS: EXEMPLAR
Already voting: HEM

[HoldenGolden]

Do you normally shotgun style into everybody day 1? [exemplar]

[HoldenGolden]

COMMIT TO YOUR SCUMREAD OF MEEEEE

Dude I am voting you brah.

Dayvig HEM

[HoldenGolden]

okay so are you

100% sure that I'm scum and there's no need to sort me otherwise?

because you haven't been trying to sort me while indicating here that you've been seriously voting me all this time.

hahaha i think you rolled scum this time, HG

Totally dude. My threat and real action of day vigging you clearly is me saying there is no room for town!monkey and thus you can be erased from reality with my strongarm day vig powers. It clearly cannot be taken as a joke.

Once Micc wakes up, BLAH. You will die. Better tell your scum partner to concede right now.

[HoldenGolden]

Why am I FoSed, HoldenGolden?

As a joke over the fishing with holy metal ticket.

Would you like to answer the question though I asked. Do you normally shotgun style into people day one? I can quote and explain what I mean if "shotgun style" is not obvious

[HoldenGolden]

His point is that your vote on him isn't RVS but you're making no attempts to solve him.

How is it not RVS?

So you don't scumread me?

No

pedit: ah my mistake then

[HoldenGolden]

how do you read me, HG?

Pretty neutral.

I thought we were jesting to figure out eachothers alignments. did you get the memo?

[HoldenGolden]

i'm one of your biggest threats here if I'm scum. why are you not interested in grilling me?

Wouldn't that imply there is something you posted that warrants grilling you?

What do you make of the inutile situation btw?

pedit:
How do I seem weird this game?

And you said that you did?

[HoldenGolden]

I mean I already know who you are regardless based on the bugsprayyyy post so

wait do you know that i know?

VOTE: holdengolden for not telling me

Which implies that you know who they are

[HoldenGolden]

•inutile feels like a hoopla alt to me.

•If monkey and Holden are both scum, I expect them to dominate discussion for the next few pages.

Why would you say the bottom half then? If you are predicting SvS situations, why not see if they come true instead?

[HoldenGolden]

Your setup in the precious page is perfect if you're both scum. Spend a few pages bickering about it without incriminating each other and distance in the process.

No no, I get the point. But what stops scum!me and Scum!monkey from now not doing just that? Or doing it now on purpose if it wasn't our plan?

Like I get thinking outloud, but now the point is covered in WIFOM.

[HoldenGolden]

Like I get thinking outloud, but now the point is covered in WIFOM.

why is it in your interest that an SvS read on you is WIFOM'd?

Because it becomes fluff that sounds like analysis.

His point means nothing since in that situation scum!us could choose to react to it or not.

Wouldn't that imply there is something you posted that warrants grilling you?

any post can be grilled if you're paranoid town.

Why do you think I am forced to just be paranoid towards you over your two victories as scum? Considering you forget who won blitz 1

[HoldenGolden]

Why do you think I am forced to just be paranoid towards you over your two victories as scum?

you're not paranoid town?

No? Did you read my posts?

Monkey, I am starting to think you are suffering from dreams of gambler's fallacies.

[HoldenGolden]

I’m just glancing at posts but Holden talking about TVs this late is p scum

How so? I would say outside of instuide (god that name) theory on me, we are just now getting out of RVS.

Town is always paranoid.

Wagon this phony.

Lol I remember when the scum team was annoyed because of how chill I was in a lylo while casing them.

[HoldenGolden]

inutile, put your vote where your impersonating mouth is.

is this an actual read based off tone?

I have a reason behind your mindset over this which points to town!hem depending on your answer

[HoldenGolden]

exemplar is obv scum

Feel free to expand the point

[HoldenGolden]

TVs is the start of the game where you just randomly or pretend randomly vote [votr]holdengolden[/vote]

I know.

HEM thought I was seriously scum reading him
I said no

I want you to explain how me clarifying my stance on a player realtes to what you said about me talking about RVS. You still haven't talked about who you thought broke character and "whined" about being scumread.

[HoldenGolden]

inutile, put your vote where your impersonating mouth is.

is this an actual read based off tone?

I have a reason behind your mindset over this which points to town!hem depending on your answer

[HoldenGolden]

Monkey its 2:36 am. I want to sleep, but if I get hammered overnight, I would like for a possible read of mine to actually be considered

Answer the question rather than ignoring it

[HoldenGolden]

i am scumreading you based on the things you've posted, and I'm still finding the reasons why. meanwhile this wagon should get strated.

Holden, are you always this apologetic/understanding? You see no scum intention behind what monkey is doing here?

No I do. I also saw town intention as well.

My thought was this was an reaction test for both me and people like inutile who expressed I was scummy, which I could see town motivation for doing so. It would let him get a better read on me while also testing those scum leans into me. It bothered me how quickly it happened, but I could of bought it (since I know he is trying more reaction test in his playstyle).

The fact this seems based on "townies are always paranoid" and is an actual read is bullshit however.

[HoldenGolden]

i am scumreading you based on the things you've posted, and I'm still finding the reasons why. meanwhile this wagon should get strated.

Holden, are you always this apologetic/understanding? You see no scum intention behind what monkey is doing here?

No I do. I also saw town intention as well.

My thought was this was an reaction test for both me and people like inutile who expressed I was scummy, which I could see town motivation for doing so. It would let him get a better read on me while also testing those scum leans into me. It bothered me how quickly it happened, but I could of bought it (since I know he is trying more reaction test in his playstyle).

The fact this seems based on "townies are always paranoid" and is an actual read is bullshit however.

Anyways this is what I wanted to spurt out incase of an lolhammer.

I have some smaller pings such as the popo minivs. examplar posts and porkins, but I need sleep first.

[HoldenGolden]

Spoiler:

Town is always paranoid.

Wagon this phony.

this wagon is now a lynch [HEM, gobbledygook, Porkens, inutile, bugspray] based on intention to vote. if the people who were saying stuff about HG being possible scum aren't here and still in their RVS mode, scum is in this wagon.

i currently have a scumread on holdengolden. it is the strongest read i have so far. if that is what you are interpreting as intention to vote, then yes, i have 'intention to vote'. if you are saying that i should do so now and we should immediately lynch holdengolden otherwise i am mafia i have a hard time believing that is a town thought process.

who said i wanted to immediately lynch him? i said wagon.

no i simply want to wagon him. which your vote should be contributing in.

go vote HG.

so you want me to vote holdengolden to L-1 in order to simply say there was a wagon? but you don't want him to claim at that point?

Claims only happen when there's intent to hammer. I want a wagon to force spotlight on two candidates and watch how people interact with it.

WHY are you still not voting HG?

i am scumreading you based on the things you've posted, and I'm still finding the reasons why. meanwhile this wagon should get strated.

he is at L-2. my vote would put him to L-1, at which point it would not be unreasonable for him to claim and it is also possible he would be lynched. i am 'soft' on my scumread to the extent that my putting additional pressure on him in the form of my vote seems more a net negative than a net positive at this point in the game. why is my vote necessary? what purpose does it serve for you?

okay. this makes sense. although claims only happen at intent to hammer, not at L-1 automatically. I've seen countless of L-1s where a claim wasn't necessary because it's understood that a hammer is bad for both town and scum. But whatever. i haven't been paying attention in the VCs. i want a wagon to form and your vote is necessary. it serves me the purpose of putting a fire in HG's ass and seeing who among those who scumread HG means it. your absent of voting when you should have been the first one to vote give me a story that you don't have real reads.

So it's an actual read -> a read plus one your building -> lighting a fire under my ass/reaction test AFTER I bring it up as a possibility to why you are doing this? That's frabicated to hell.

Why do i need a fire under my ass 3 hours in when you started your Holden wagon?

Why arent you looking into those who hopped on the wagon as well if it's a reaction test? Nothing changed for your test when I asked if this was a legit read as inutile already refused to vote me. Bugs voted me for being "werid", and porkin had to be asked by you to actually follow through on his RVS thing. I get scum isn't committal, but why dont you think scum wouldnt jump also at your offering to wagon me in this context? If you are town, it's a perfect scapegoat situation for them.

Let me guess, you rolled scum and decided to do your usual death tunnel strategy on me.

[HoldenGolden]

Either it's a reaction test where you are artificially causing wagons to form which makes gauging the reactions harder since townies can call bullshit, or its an actual read that your pushing.

You cant have both monkey.

[HoldenGolden]

I liked poopoo's intial case, but dislike both examplars and poopoo's reactions to each other afterwards for different reasons.

Farside, how did poopoo sound werid to you? What do you make of the two after their interaction

[HoldenGolden]

VOTE: exemplar. Who’s scummy now haha

You still havent answered my question

On a scale to 1-10 how juicy would you say you are?

[HoldenGolden]

Townlean on inutile. I find the handling of Monkeys posts townie in addtion of their offering to vote me in order to gague HEM intentions further

[HoldenGolden]

inutile is town.
monkey is scummy, interrogation feels a little forced.
popo is VI.
Holden is a who knows. Maybe town.
gobble is scummy if that's all they have to say after coming back to several 1v1s/arguments.
farside might be town. I can understand her takes.
Porkens is scummy. The vote and previous double explanation without going back and checking.
bugspray is null.

VOTE: Porkens L-2

So gobble is scummy for coming back multiple times yet bugspray who is pretty similar (imo) is a null?

[HoldenGolden]

what the fuck I keep looking away for a few minutes to like 5 more pages

VOTE: holdengolden
idk man u seeem pretty weird this game
and i never said i know who inutile is

I mean I already know who you are regardless based on the bugsprayyyy post so

wait do you know that i know?
VOTE: holdengolden for not telling me

No, I don't need to know your mind to understand the engima which is inutile.

Bugs are you scum with HEM this game? Honesty is the best policy.

Honesty is the best policy? Then tell me who inutile is.

I mean I already know who you are regardless based on the bugsprayyyy post so

wait do you know that i know?
VOTE: holdengolden for not telling me

I could perhaps understand it if all bugs has done since RvS was say the game is moving too fast if that's all they did, but they confirmed their vote on me was no longer RVS.

[HoldenGolden]

Oops those weren't suppose to be posted.

@Farside I like the way they went about their counter interrogation on monkey. More importantly though, I think their proposal to vote me if monkey unvotes is town driven given how it seems to be used in order to gague HEM intentions (if he actually going about creating the wagons purely for reactions) while also not giving him control over my wagon.

Clearer? I'm half awake rn

[HoldenGolden]

HG rolled scum this game guys. Trust me.

Why?

If it's a meta read then explain it
If it's a content read then explain it.

So you are choosing that it's an actual read and not you doing a reaction test/lighting a fire under my ass like you claimed to inutile?

@exemplar let me find a gobbles game I guess then

[HoldenGolden]

I can do both, HG. I'm scumreading you and you're reacting, aren't you?

Not given how you phrased it to inutile.

Now answer my question. What is your scumread on me based on.

[HoldenGolden]

You are obligated by question laws to answer my question now straight forward with no rebuttal question.

[HoldenGolden]

It's mostly intuition that I'm still trying to articulate.

Articulate faster then.

[HoldenGolden]

At least try to explain it beyond gut feeling since you are projecting it as a slam dunk read.

[HoldenGolden]

I'm not under pressure and I like Exemplary's wagon and we already have the Porkens counterwagon. So maybe later. Meanwhile, I have my eye on you because I don't think a 1-on-1 is productive right now.

Hold up.

You want to see my reaction. Here's my reaction. You havent responded about the looking into bugs/pork votes either point I raised. Pork is now a viable wagon. What do you make of his vote onto my wagon?

I think our 1v1 is very productive on my end. Why dont you think so?

Yes you have fallen to a scumlean.
No I do not town read either of them.

[HoldenGolden]

I don't really care whether you are very productive on your end. I don't think I'm going to be productive just picking what say apart. I'm probably gonna have a lot of false positives. Meanwhile, I like watching you interact with everything else. I don't want to take attention away from Exemplar and Porkens.

I'm saying that the 1v1 would be productive for me to determine your alignment.

I'll gladly let you go, once you vocalize what your intuition is so there is some form of progression that can be followed besides "Holden is scum guys".

Can you answer the pork question since you want to focus on the wagons.

[HoldenGolden]

Part of the answer on why I have an intuition that you are scum this time is that you seem different, but not on a playstyle basis, but on a personality/mood basis. You seem to be grilling me now not because of your scumread on me, but because I'm scumreading you. This is not what I remember you do. I don't believe you really find me scummy, since now you want to let me go, and you have scumreads on both Exemplar and Porkens.

Maybe.

I'm really not sure what my intuition is of you, but this is what I can tell you now.

Porkens is making himself very hard to read and I appreciate the wagon on him.

Sorta of.

I don't believe your scumread into me is genuine and feels frabicated which leads me to scum!hem and your tendency to death tunnel as scum.

You're the one who is choosing to not engage here. I'm not going to shove my foot through my phone to get you discuss back at me. I need info like the reason behind scum reading to actually gague if your bullshitting me

I was more referring to his vote into me

I'll read Exemplers iso post lunch. I already have an opinion though on the slot

[HoldenGolden]

Oh he left. Sad.

death tunnel

do i really look like I'm deathtunneling right now?

I take phases like "He is scum guys come on!" As indicative of your death tunnel style yes. It very much reminds me of your treatment of LL day 1 of newbie 1996.

It be a bit. I'm currently celebrating losing a game so

[HoldenGolden]

inutile is town.
monkey is scummy, interrogation feels a little forced.
popo is VI.
Holden is a who knows. Maybe town.
gobble is scummy if that's all they have to say after coming back to several 1v1s/arguments.
farside might be town. I can understand her takes.
Porkens is scummy. The vote and previous double explanation without going back and checking.
bugspray is null.

VOTE: Porkens L-2

Annoyingly I cant ask him now for him to explain the meta different between town and scum popo, but I can dig a exemplar lynch after rereading his post case interactions with popo and the tonal shift that came from it.

[HoldenGolden]

UNVOTE:

I would prefer to see the replacement though regardless.

[HoldenGolden]

I feel like Holden is scumanhis partners derailed his wagon but exemplar replacing out is hella scummy

So you think intuite is my scum partner?

Derail as in stop it or derail as in pushing a counterwagon?

[HoldenGolden]

honestly the best possible play exemplar could make there as scum is to replace out. why dont we save the mod and his replacement a lot of trouble

Why are trying to entice me to vote when I already said I prefer to wait?

Pedit: which I'm fine with. But your painting the replacement situation as only scummy in 326.

what spurred you to give this read at that moment?

I was commenting on the other non HEM stuff in the pages I was alseep for

[HoldenGolden]

Only in a perfect world would a town not need to fake anything.

Amen

[HoldenGolden]

u know for a BLITZ game this is moving about the pace of a mini normal

Why are trying to entice me to vote when I already said I prefer to wait?

Pedit (after your posts with intuite where you give the soft reset comment) which I'm fine with. But your painting the replacement situation as only scummy in 326.

[HoldenGolden]

Curious. You votes examplar, was fine with him at l-1 ,but feel gun shy when he replaces out........why?

I never voted him and said clearly I was fine with the L1 but prefer to see the replace in back to back.

[HoldenGolden]

Popo engage with me

[HoldenGolden]

Popo engage with me

helo

Since we are waiting on the replacement to fully catch up, do you have any other reads?

[HoldenGolden]

bro i am actively engaging i caught scum already

if you caught scum why are anxious about the post frequency?

I'm kinda surprised he didnt scum lean me for not wanting to hammer tbh.

[HoldenGolden]

Popo engage with me

helo

Since we are waiting on the replacement to fully catch up, do you have any other reads?

farside is town
holden town lean
gobble is kinda scummy

Care to at least briefly explain them?

[HoldenGolden]

Oh cool another unnecessary claim in a blitz mafia game. One more for the bingo card.

So you are claiming weak 1 shot hider which becomes basically a 1 shot suicide cop check

[HoldenGolden]

@HG: Why the unvote?

Pressure mostly on the replace in. Trying not to have sticky hand votes like I normally do as town. My scum read on monkey hasn't changed; I just feel having my vote hovering over the exemplar slot will be useful rn.

Currently thinking about the claim and waiting to see porkins new post.

[HoldenGolden]

Oh cool another unnecessary claim in a blitz mafia game. One more for the bingo card.

So you are claiming weak 1 shot hider which becomes basically a 1 shot suicide cop check

micc did not say not to claim unnecessarily. he simply said not to fake claim. i'm not sure claiming weak hider and calling your shot instead of crumbing your target in case of death in the night is the approach i would take, but i don't know if gobble would trust us with the latter.

I was referring to both the mason fake claims and the tendency for unprovoked VT claims that was present in both games (IE I'm also talking about your eariler claim)

[HoldenGolden]

maybe scum gobble thought hiders were weak by default and did not know he had to fake claim the weak moderator, he thought it was inherent in the role. so he thought he did not have to claim weak in order for us to know this. could be a scumslip.

Hider is you hide behind somebody as like a reverse BG basically?

Wouldnt that imply his plan is to kamikaze himself then as scum?
=================
Also as a side note, assuming the two claims are legit so far, can we not just give scum free set up info? Kthxs.

[HoldenGolden]

I'd let this go. See what happens. I think if gg is what he claimed it is a benefit for town. I see no reason to lynch him based on how he claimed.

a benefit to the town how? we lose a lynch if he finds scum, we lose a lynch if he dies with a town, or he doesn't give information. maybe i'm misunderstanding.

If he finds scum and declares who he is hiding behind, then we conversely know who scum is. Him being weak turns him into a kamikaze check.

If he checks town, either nothing happens or we lose a lynch as two townies die.

That's how I understand it. I believe he is immune to rbs when hiding at least according to the wiki

[HoldenGolden]

If he finds scum and declares who he is hiding behind, then we conversely know who scum is.

yes but is 7 alive we do not know a confirmed mafia better than 6 alive we know the identity of one mafia?

Hmm

6 v 2 assuming town mislynches
4 v 2 town!hider is successful in targeting scum. Mafia nks
3v1 we lynch hider target
2v1 lylo

6v2
5v2 no hide
4v2 mislynch
3v2 mlyo

Or 5v1 successful lynch on wcum
4v1 after nk day 3
Etc.

Really depends on if town can get scum day 2 (or day 1) if you look at it like that.

There is more I want to say, but I rather not openly spec talk rn.

[HoldenGolden]

Did you catch up gobble. What are your reads?

VOTE: Ame
L1 pressure train lets go

[HoldenGolden]

Currently scumreading Porkens and bugspray.

Town reading inutile, pox7, Holden, and HEM

You are neutral on exemplar slot?

Can you explain the HEM read?

[HoldenGolden]

UNVOTE:

I will eat my dinner in peace

[HoldenGolden]

Oh there was a claim.

I was voting to hold ame accountable to actually actively catching up instead of hiding behind other interactions

[HoldenGolden]

Oh there was a claim.

I was voting to hold ame accountable to actually actively catching up instead of hiding behind other interactions

What gave you the impression I was hiding?

Less of I thought you were hiding and more preemptively not allowing scum!you to wait and post a catch up post after the conversation moved away.

It makes sense in my head, but it may not be coming out clearly

[HoldenGolden]

Oh there was a claim.

I was voting to hold ame accountable to actually actively catching up instead of hiding behind other interactions

What gave you the impression I was hiding?

Less of I thought you were hiding and more preemptively not allowing scum!you to wait and post a catch up post after the conversation moved away.

It makes sense in my head, but it may not be coming out clearly

So what was the reason you unvoted HEM earlier?

To give a possibilty an intent of hammer could come from me like I've said.

[HoldenGolden]

Oh there was a claim.

I was voting to hold ame accountable to actually actively catching up instead of hiding behind other interactions

What gave you the impression I was hiding?

Less of I thought you were hiding and more preemptively not allowing scum!you to wait and post a catch up post after the conversation moved away.

It makes sense in my head, but it may not be coming out clearly

So what was the reason you unvoted HEM earlier?

To give a possibilty an intent of hammer could come from me like I've said.

OK but you said you unvoted to "pressure" me so why did you vote if you were already "pressuring" me? What changed between those two posts?

Your wagon dropped to L2. I voted to get it back to L1 to maintain the notion.

My intentions with the unvote was to voice that I was waiting only on the catch up post. That was to try and stress that point by unvoting HEM and hovering over the wagon.

[HoldenGolden]

Oh there was a claim.

I was voting to hold ame accountable to actually actively catching up instead of hiding behind other interactions

What gave you the impression I was hiding?

Less of I thought you were hiding and more preemptively not allowing scum!you to wait and post a catch up post after the conversation moved away.

It makes sense in my head, but it may not be coming out clearly

So what was the reason you unvoted HEM earlier?

To give a possibilty an intent of hammer could come from me like I've said.

OK but you said you unvoted to "pressure" me so why did you vote if you were already "pressuring" me? What changed between those two posts?

Your wagon dropped to L2. I voted to get it back to L1 to maintain the notion.

My intentions with the unvote was to voice that I was waiting only on the catch up post. That was to try and stress that point by unvoting HEM and hovering over the wagon.

Honestly I don't see how unvoting someone really causes any player to believe you are going to vote them.
Unvotes just read awkward to me typically.

Prehaps it's just the way I see it.

It makes sense to me, but then again I know why I did it.

What do you make of the tracker claim?

[HoldenGolden]

I think it's possible, but not to the degree as you and po. He seems to prefer to keep his partners around and town read them rather than bus. And Holden's side of the interaction looks particularly non-partnery. In particular, 297, 272, 271 (bottom), and 179. With regard to 179, if they were going for theatre strategy, I don't think holden would have town read him there and up to that point.

*To clarify I wasnt town reading him in 179, but expressing how his posts could have town motivation

I'm taking the night off to regroup. I think I'm just surface level reading/thinking instead of actually being focused like I should be.

[HoldenGolden]

Happy scum day humaneatingmonkey!

Gonna catch up in a bit

[HoldenGolden]

Some unforeseen events arise today, and I've gotten busy as a result. I do see there has been talked about the claim
The only way with the tracker claim scum!gg can report a false positive with his claim is A) if Ame is also scum, B) Ame is nked and they risk shooting there without knowing if the protection or C) the other obvious avenue that I wont mention on the off chance this is some major gambit and they dont think about it. If Ame is town, scum!GG is basically fucked if they follow through with the safety check on him. His claim even before the tracker was reveal had its issues as a fakeclaim.

I think the scummest person in the thread after the lynch candidate should be the target of GG to alleivte the concerns from the off chance of a GG/pork gambit.

There was something else I wanted to talk about after hurry-catch up

[HoldenGolden]

Oh yeah, pork beat me too it, but I agree bugs readlist is noncommittal I'm several places. More importantly, it's where its non committal I have issues.

the

ame/exmplar slot is just tonnally fucked

i

think HG was probably only being weird because of the way HEM is prodding him which defintiely gives me a similar vibe to hwo he was as my scum partner in the last blitz but tbh

porky gives me weird low key scum vibes. almost like he has info about scum prs that would make him think hider is a weird claim
popopopopo for some reason gives me high key town vibes that i dont know how to explain what the numbers spinning in my brain mean
VOTE: porky
farside trying to get this mechanical knowledge in the game thread seems townish to me

inutile are you shiki?

double pedit:
I WANNA POST DAMMIT

From top to bottom bolded (note this is just what stands out to me rather than all the places its noncommittal):

-the ame/exemplar is tonally werid yet not described in a way relating to alignment. I kinda find hard to believe given the ample amount of other content points that could be said about the slot (scummy replace out, Exemplars vs pop interaction, etc.). Further, it doesnt really explain how the slot is fucked and who fucked it to all hell, preventing any sort of real counterpoint by anybody.

-the reads on me and HEM on it's own is fine. However, bugs commitment to it is apparently centered around pork being scum. To me,

the read strength in their HG/HEM read is much stronger than the reasonings given for the porks read (where they admit its "werid low key scum vibes")

. Therefore, it strikes out to me that bugs went what appears to be the weaker of the two reads and not commit to what they see as scum!hem repeating his behavior.

-intuile is here because it's not actually a read. However, I think there should be one here given the express feelings over me and HEM. In a world where you think me and him is doing theater, then I expect a person to also townlean the player that called it out regardless of their identity. This introduces what seems to be an inconsistent thought process which leads me to think that Bugs was not genuine with the catch up and consequently frabicated the read list.

Needless to say, I am fine with a bugs lynch so far

[HoldenGolden]

I do have questions though I would like to ask at bugs

-explain the tonally fuck point about ame/exemplar. How is it tonally fuck and in what ways? What is your actual read on them factoring in both the claim and other aspects of that slot like the replace out?

-I am taking it that you are scumreading both me and HEM for similar actions from blitz I. Am I correct? If so, why did you vote porky if you feel this is true rather than me or HEM? What do you make of HEM recent posts which seems to talk about the hider claim like you claim pork did?

-what is your actual read on intuite? If null, explain why.

[HoldenGolden]

I also need to actually read read farsides posts. I'm having Datisi syndrome with her for some old reason.

Pedit: I can look back and reread that section.

I will confess I only have first hand knowledge of his scum game.

[HoldenGolden]

Spoiler:

he is at L-2. my vote would put him to L-1, at which point it would not be unreasonable for him to claim and it is also possible he would be lynched. i am 'soft' on my scumread to the extent that my putting additional pressure on him in the form of my vote seems more a net negative than a net positive at this point in the game. why is my vote necessary? what purpose does it serve for you?

okay. this makes sense. although claims only happen at intent to hammer, not at L-1 automatically. I've seen countless of L-1s where a claim wasn't necessary because it's understood that a hammer is bad for both town and scum. But whatever. i haven't been paying attention in the VCs. i want a wagon to form and your vote is necessary. it serves me the purpose of putting a fire in HG's ass and seeing who among those who scumread HG means it. your absent of voting when you should have been the first one to vote give me a story that you don't have real reads.

? there were two votes on holdengolden while i was actively interacting with him to further my read. your approach here still feels off to me.

off as in scum? commit to your reads.

off as in scum? commit to your reads.

off as in a bad angle. like it doesn't make sense to me and could come from scum but it doesn't necessarily make sense for scum to be pushing me to vote like this either.

do you think HG is scum?

my read of holdengolden has not changed since the last time i gave it in anyway except for in its relation to you.

so if you think HG is scum, and I'm 'off' why isn't it still in your best interest to lynch scum?

so if you think HG is scum, and I'm 'off' why isn't it still in your best interest to lynch scum?

is your attempt to encourage me to put holdengolden to L-1 goalless and endless? simply a quest you must complete for experience? how about you unvote, and then i will place my vote, and then if you replace your vote before i would do so we lynch you instead?

if i unvote, and you vote HG, I will vote Exemplar, and HG will be in quasi-L-1 while putting pressure on Exemplar as well. This sounds like a good deal.

UNVOTE:

you say i will orchestrate a hammer, but that involves someone else putting HG at L-1 and you think nothing of that person?

why are your stances standing out to me as somewhat fake?

[...]

Pedit: only as in I've only rolled up against scum!hem. I've read town games by him, but i recall and am more knowledgeable about his scum game. Likewise, he has only ever gone up against town!hg.

Disregarding the content issues I have with HEM posts, I find the interaction aligning with what I've seen in his scum game. The interaction feels reminiscent of his approach to Hiraki from blitz II, where they got into a long circular arguement where they kept scum reading each other. There HEM would agree, then turn around and keep pushing despite what was going on. That is also what I'm using as a reference here. It's not perfect by any means contextually, but blah

One point of interest is at the very beginning of the spoiler where HEM agrees that Intuiles logic makes sense in 228, but come 235 repressures Intuile for not committing. This sticks out as it hints that HEM motivation for the questioning is more to point out the scumminess in intuile rather then his expressed reasoning in 228. I could buy the possibility that this is genuine as the follow up where he divert focus back to my wagon. The town games of his I have read matches this behavior of poking into someone while attempting to push whatever agenda town!HEM believes in.

What I dont like, and the reason why i think the interaction points to scum!hem, is post quasi-L1 plan. I feel HEM'a return to shading/investigating into inutile the way he did post the agreement weakens the notion of the agenda he pushed in 227. Its using HEM own supposed agenda to fuel the suspension rather than a natural progression after achieving at least part of his plan. I feel town!hem would of not made 246 which serves more to crunch up his new pressure on intuile while throwing shade at the slot. This was what he did during the Hiraki interaction in my eyes.

Tldr: I think there are moments where you can see town!hem, but his supposed agenda doesnt seem to match up to what he actually pushed or did which I find more indicative of how scum!hem operates.

[HoldenGolden]

I can I just say how hard it is to type on mobile, boil tea, finalize plans, and look devilishly sexy all at the same time?

I'm lying about one of those

[HoldenGolden]

After thinking it over, I actually doubt Gobbles is town here. His play is too scummy. Gobbles, you should 100% target Pork tonight. I'll track elsewhere.

Hmm. Wheels are turning.

(Also I'll read those bugs games tomorrow)

Pedit: I see it as your tracking check vaildies that Gobber is actually a hider and didnt fake claim as scum. So if you think he is scum, do you also think he is legit 1 shot weak hider?

[HoldenGolden]

I can I just say how hard it is to type on mobile, boil tea, finalize plans, and look devilishly sexy all at the same time?

I'm lying about one of those

it can't be the last one it's impossible, and

you're a coffee drinker

so the tea is a lie

I vomited a bit

[HoldenGolden]

Legit acum 1 shot hider*

I guess he could be a role that visits too

[HoldenGolden]

I can't read this slot because I'm too biased that it's scum. I defer to farside for this one.

Do you have more behind my scum read now, or is it still just instinct?

[HoldenGolden]

i also think that you've been using my meta maliciously against me

How so? Be specific.

[HoldenGolden]

Mostly because you're saying how you paint a picture of scum-HEM based on past behavior whereas I'm town,

and I've done some of the things you've said as town.

I told you to read Nightless and Winter Wonderland. Did you read them?

So my read on you should depend on me knowing you are town, and thus I am scummy because of using meta? What? Your logic makes no sense. I asked how is malicious, not how is it supposedly wrong.

Like "painting a picture of scum!me based on past games" is literally the point of meta.

What do you hope to achieve when you say stuff like that to people? You did it to ame where you say they are wrong and that you are town, without really trying to disprove them.
============
I did. It's why I'm not pushing the death tunnel point anymore

[HoldenGolden]

okay fine maybe it's not you

Based off what?

[HoldenGolden]

based on my read on you being mostly instinct but i really have nothing yet that points towards scum you.

What happen to the malicious meta and the mood/personality points?

Pedit: i was actually planning on voting HEM before heading to bed. I'm reading bugs games that ame linked rn to see if I see what he is saying first

[HoldenGolden]

Bugs I made a conscious effort this time to remember pronouns so If I fucked up I'm sorry.

Also Hg is my father's name (Holden Mercury). Its HG

*cries with my chemistry credits*

[HoldenGolden]

You know I thought it was gonna be a much longer sit down to read, but those iso were nice and short. Also lol at worst edit in the mini normal.

I do sorta see what Ame is talking about comparing mini normal vs Food and the usage of phases like "brainworm" as I do see it being used in conjunction with pushing a scumread as scum and I agree with the assessment. However, I'm on a hiccup of the "low key werid scum vibes" usage in the pork read, as I feel it used in a similar context when factoring in the projected read strength different between HEM and Pork. The real question would be why would scum!bugs have that difference around HEM, and I dont have a soild answer besides either protecting scumbuddy!hem or pushing pork to get lynch over the hider check.

Activity wise, I dont think there is much of a difference since it's harder to compare blitz I to the food game in that contextual lenses. Probably will search later for a longer town game as "Mr pink" didnt give me the answers I wanted.

I am leaning though more back to the monkey, especially after the mini interaction we had.
VOTE: Humaneatingmonkey
=====
Ame what do you make of Bugs pork read tonally?

[HoldenGolden]

holden and hem right now feels like tvs. they are both way too smart to actually misunderstand each other like that so i feel like there is some serious intentional misrepping going on

Was your thought when you made your readlist that it was also TvS?

Also lol at the two of us being so smart we couldn't possibly be wrong with each other. Can you explain that more actually? It's a fallacy rich point.

[HoldenGolden]

GG well play!

Wait so who did gg target night 1?

Me, which is why I was wondering why fruit dealer didnt claim day 2 admiss the mass claiming. I had thought you were the dealer which made me rage in dead chat lol

[HoldenGolden]

It was nice retrospectively to play with town!hem instead of constantly being stabbed in the back

[HoldenGolden]

In hind site ahould have blocked gg and killed ame

True, but it wasn't that bad knowing bugs to be scum. GG made some reasons why, but:

What you would of gained by keeping me alive was a possible mislynch on me. However, Bug's hammer was not executed greatly, and their flip probably would of made me look townie to a degree after day 1 interactions. Therefore it's not a terrible trade losing that mislynch especially since it would of allowed you to push Intuile theoretically.

PR kill is still much better