Newbie 2010: Pride Month | Game Over

[Snowblaze]

Ego

VOTE: Snowblaze
Wagons are nice.

...except when you’re the one being wagoned. VOTE: Umlaut, blatant OMGUS.

[Snowblaze]

I’m town, and there’s a 75% chance you also are from my PoV so I’ll guess you’re town.

[Snowblaze]

VOTE: gibus
Bigger wagons are nicer.

I'm curious about the newbies' past experience with Mafia here. Is this your first game? Did you play on another site first? Have you already played a game with anyone else in this one?

I’ve played several games on another site, and I have two completed games here, one town and one scum. I’ve also played with piisirrational and Homura in a game that’s still ongoing despite all three of us being dead.

[*]@Snowblaze:

• What is your process for townreading people?
  
• Is there anyone you feel town from thus far?

Well, as a result of being utterly fooled by someone I was certain was town on another site recently, I’m a bit hesitant to townread anyone at the moment... and I still feel like I don’t really have a clue what I’m doing. But just look for people who seem to be genuinely contributing and trying to solve the game. It helps if I’ve played with them before so I have a better idea how to read them.

I haven’t read the thread in as much detail as I’d like. I have no reads off the top of my head, I’ll go back and see if I can dredge something up.

Did you roll scum again, Snowblaze?

Not this time, no. Don’t worry, I am actually capable of being town. Not necessarily being

competent

town, but that’s a different matter!

[Snowblaze]

Having read through the thread, I’ve discovered that there’s a lot of inside jokes that I don’t get, and that I have precisely zero reads. Sorry about that, but trying to force myself to have reads won’t end well.

[Snowblaze]

Having read through the thread, I’ve discovered that there’s a lot of inside jokes that I don’t get, and that I have precisely zero reads. Sorry about that, but trying to force myself to have reads won’t end well.

What do you think of Gibus and the ensuing votes right on the wagon?

Well, there’s nothing wrong with RVS-voting someone who claimed scum, but it does seem a little suspicious that so many people jumped on so quickly... although I’m not sure what scum gains from RVS bandwagons so it’s probably NAI.

[Snowblaze]

I townread Snowblaze from meta. Her entrance aligns her towngame and isn't like her scumgames. She also fakes early reads as scum, sometimes confident ones even. Her not having any right now is town-indicative.

What pinged you about her just now, Elmo?

Been researching me? That’s... interesting.

[Snowblaze]

Well, I'm gonna research my scum buddy now, aren't I?

...I’m still not sure why you decided openly claiming to be scumbuddies on the grounds that no actual scumbuddies would be insane enough to do that was a good idea.

pedit: It’s either town genuinely trying to read me or scum trying to pocket me. The former is more likely, but paranoia. (Also, I really need to get better at mimicking my town meta as scum if I’m that easy to read.)

It’s called Giant in the Playground. I can link to my games there if you want, but most of them are role madness with private networking allowed so may be kind of hard to read without context.

[Snowblaze]

It means you can PM each other regarding the game. The results have been entertaining, if not always so fun when you’re the one trying to deal with the chaos.

My most recent scum game is about the only one without PRs: https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread. ... a-Werewolf

And the town game... this will be an interesting read, I can guarantee, just for the pure chaos of it all. Most of it will probably make no sense! https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread. ... r-Werewolf

[Snowblaze]

Not too many posts to read through, which unfortunately means not too much chance at generating actual reads.

@Ghost Ganster: yes, I am aware that it’s not particularly helpful to have a lack of reads, but I think it would be even less helpful to generate forced reads I don’t have any faith in and start fixing my view of the game before I have enough evidence to go on.

Pi does try to look town as town - I completely disagree with the principle of caring about appearances as town, but pi has played like this as town before.

I agree that the gibus wagon was random joke-voting, as I said earlier.

I think I can overcome my paranoia enough to throw out townleans on Ghost Ganster and to a lesser extent gibus (because I feel like scum would be less likely to draw attention to themselves and attract an early wagon). No scum leans yet, but I’m getting there.

[Snowblaze]

VOTE: Snow

Feels like you are trying really hard right now

...how does that make me scum? I’m just throwing out whatever thoughts I have at the moment.

[Snowblaze]

@Elmo: I wouldn’t say I’m getting defensive so much as not really understanding why you suspect me.

@Ghost Ganster: Homura has been relatively inactive as town in previous games.

Could you explain why you want me dead? And why you think Umlaut is town?

Pedit: I wasn’t flipping out or panicking at all.

[Snowblaze]

@Ghost Ganster:

Could you explain why you want me dead? And why you think Umlaut is town?

Can you answer this please? And why didn't you answer when responding to my point about Homura earlier?

Fixed the quote - MOD

[Snowblaze]

Welp, messed up the quotes. Oops.

[Snowblaze]

I’m not offended, I just completely disagree with the idea of wanting to lynch people because they’re not useful. IMO you should lynch based on who you feel is most likely to be scum, not who will be the least valuable if you’re wrong.

And I will be more useful than this, it’s just hard to pressure people when you don’t have anything suspicious to go on! The only thing that’s struck me as odd is Elmo’s push on me, and I’m probably too biased to judge it objectively.

But since it’s an awful lot better than a blatant OMGUS on someone who isn’t even voting for you any more: VOTE: Elmo TehAzn. Why did you interpret my response as panicking, when it was just confusion?

[Snowblaze]

...I forgot the space. VOTE: Elmo Teh Azn.

[Snowblaze]

Surely if my tone is different to previous games when I was scum it should imply that I’m

not

scum.

And I don’t really see where I took it for granted that you were town. The closest I came to it was pointing out that you’ve played like this as town before, which isn’t the same thing as assuming you’re town here.

[Snowblaze]

Oooo An OMGUS vote and a vote from a person who sees me as scum

My vote wasn’t OMGUS, it was because I still don’t see why you find me suspicious.

[Snowblaze]

Right, I probably have enough to piece together some thoughts now.

In player list order:

Null on Homura. She’s been playing similarly to how I’ve seen her play as town before, but without experience of her scum game I don’t think that’s enough for a townread.

Slight town lean on gibus, for reasons stated earlier: I don’t think scum would necessarily want to draw that much attention.

I want to townread Hectic on the grounds that I agree with a lot of his thoughts so far, but for some reason he seems to be attracting all of my paranoia this game.

I’m conflicted on Ghost Ganster. On the one hand I like that he’s questioning everyone and trying to get the game moving... on the other hand, his stance on me is basically “I want to lynch you because you’re possibly scum and even if you’re not you’re less useful than others, but I’m still not going to vote for you”, which... I am not a fan of that logic.

@Ghost Ganster: do you think my lack of reads makes me more likely than average to be scum? And if so, why aren’t you voting for me?

Leaning town on pi. As I said with Homura, they’re playing similarly to their town game, and I can see where they’re coming from even though I don’t agree with all of their points.

Slight town lean on Raya, because I don’t really see scum deciding to go after Ghost here.

Solidly null on Umlaut, I don’t think I’ve really seen anything that pings me either way.

And I’ve already made my feelings on Elmo pretty clear.

[Snowblaze]

Yup. I like his thoughts on pi here:

turtle's 75: Scummy tone but the reasoning is fair.

81: I get what turtle is saying here. He's saying the wagon was made using reasons from RVS, rather than the wagon being made with reasons that came after RVS - which would normally have more substance and require more justification for a vote.

And I also agree with his assessment of the me/Elmo interaction (despite, or perhaps because of, my bias on that matter).

[Snowblaze]

@Ghost: ...so you preferred lynching Homura to me, and yet Homura was absent from your list of preferred lynches which you made in the same post as voting for Homura?

[Snowblaze]

Homura, if you think Elmo is scum and you want Ghost to vote for her, why aren’t you voting Elmo yourself?

[Snowblaze]

Pagetop!

...wow.

Am I missing something? Did I fail at basic thread comprehension? (Probably!)

[Snowblaze]

I'd be interested to hear that town lean explained more actually.

Do you think scum would force a town read on me?

I feel like scum would be more likely to go after easy targets than someone seeming towny very early on. Not very strong, but at that stage it was better than nothing.

pedit: well, not my fault I happened to post at that time, is it?

[Snowblaze]

I’m not normally that paranoid. I think I’ve recovered and got back to my normal state of only-slightly-paranoid.

[Snowblaze]

I am

definitely not a cultist

.

Serious thoughts to follow when I'm not in the middle of half a dozen other things at once. Hopefully.

[Snowblaze]

I believe I promised some serious thoughts. Not really sure what I can do until Elmo catches up and Ghost's replacement arrives, but...

Pretty confident in my townread of the Ghost slot. Also haven't seen anything to make me question my townleans on pi and Raya. Still paranoid about Hectic for some reason.

Kind of conflicted on Homura, I don't quite know what to make of her reaction to my misinterpretation.

Elmo has barely posted since the last time I did one of these.

And gibus and Umlaut are null for now.

[Snowblaze]

Hello, M2H!

I’d also appreciate more detail on your townreads. I’ll have to go back and re-read the Raya/gibus exchange, but I think I can see where you’re coming from on that. Just need to work out whether I agree!

[Snowblaze]

UNVOTE: Nauci. At least for now.

I'm starting to lean towards a possible scum!gibus, but I'm not confident enough to vote there just yet.

@gibus: why Hectic over Homura there? Is it just because Hectic already has a vote?

[Snowblaze]

I'm starting to lean towards a possible scum!gibus

Why?

Well, other than the initial weak townlean you haven't really given me any reason to think you're town, and then what M2H and Nauci said about your read on Raya is making me suspicious. I'll need to read back through your ISO to get a solid read, though. Will do that now!

[Snowblaze]

I definitely prefer lynching gibus to Hectic at this point. I feel like there's something that can be worked out from the speed at which both of these wagons were built up, but I'm not sure what it is, at least not yet.

Anyway, it's probably close enough to deadline that I should be doing this: VOTE: gibus, L-1.

[Snowblaze]

I definitely prefer lynching gibus to Hectic at this point. I feel like there's something that can be worked out from the speed at which both of these wagons were built up, but I'm not sure what it is, at least not yet.

Anyway, it's probably close enough to deadline that I should be doing this: VOTE: gibus, L-1.

Why though?
I'm not sure why I'm being scumread right now.

I explained earlier:

I'm starting to lean towards a possible scum!gibus

Why?

Well, other than the initial weak townlean you haven't really given me any reason to think you're town, and then what M2H and Nauci said about your read on Raya is making me suspicious. I'll need to read back through your ISO to get a solid read, though. Will do that now!

Your ISO didn't give me enough to doubt that initial impression. I'm not

convinced

, but I think you're more likely to be scum than Hectic right now, and there probably wouldn't be time for an alternate wagon.

[Snowblaze]

@Nauci... I don’t really have scum reads, which makes my null reads (gibus, Homura, Umlaut) suspicious by POE. I was scumreading Elmo before you replaced her, but I don’t want to lynch you today. Partly because getting the game moving is very useful for town, partly because I’d feel too bad about lynching someone who’s only just replaced in, partly because I think I’m starting to townread you.

[Snowblaze]

I could be interested, but there's not long before deadline and I'm not going to be around for very much longer. I need to be certain the numbers are there before I switch.

[Snowblaze]

Just got time to check in and VOTE: Umlaut

[Snowblaze]

Umlaut is lying. Lynch him.

[Snowblaze]

I’m... not dead? Yeah, I am an investigative role. I’m the cop. Sorry for putting you all through the stress of trying to work out whether I was counterclaiming or not. Not sure exactly how I managed to both survive and not be roleblocked, but gibus is town. My theory is that scum thought Hectic and I were mason buddies.

Annoyingly, I don’t know whether a doctor exists or whether I’m guaranteed to die tonight.

Anyway, I guess POE leads me to VOTE: piisirrational. That’s L-2, if anyone’s counting. Although my paranoia is making me wonder whether someone was bussing Umlaut. I’ll check back through the associations with Umlaut, see what makes most sense.

[Snowblaze]

@Snowblaze You being alive means that scum is almost definitely a roleblocker or rolecop who knows that there's a high likelihood of a protective role in the game and therefore didn't bother trying to target you, so they're trying to guess the other PR at this point?

Rolecop is impossible in the same setup as a cop. Roleblocker is likely... only why didn’t they roleblock me? I’m kind of confused about how on Earth I managed to get a useful result tonight, but not complaining!

[Snowblaze]

Umlaut and pi seriously voted for each other early on day one... neither wagon really took off at the time, though, so distancing is possible there.

[Snowblaze]

Scum can’t forfeit if you just lynched them.

[Snowblaze]

I feel like we’re more likely to be in C1 than A1 - partly because if scum weren’t killing me they would have roleblocked me if they could, partly because Umlaut’s tracker claim would have been countered 100% of the time in A1 but only 67% of the time in C1 - if the setup was A1 Umlaut would have been more likely to claim Friendly Neighbour.

Which means I’m as good as dead. Yay.

[Snowblaze]

My being alive and unroleblocked (yes, I know that’s not a word) makes equally little sense whichever setup we’re in.

If we’re in A1, scum know I’m cop, tracker or mason as of night one, and they don’t kill me because they’re worried about a doctor. So they roleblock me to stop me from getting a useful result if I’m an investigative.

If we’re in C1, scum know I’m cop or mason, and they kill me because I’m a confirmed PR.

...unless it’s M2H and they pre-submitted a kill during the day, before I counterclaimed, and then haven’t been online to change their kill in light of my claim?

@mod

: would you allow scum to pre-submit a kill during the day phase?

[Snowblaze]

Hey, technically roles haven’t been revealed, so I could still be a fake-claiming cult leader.

[Snowblaze]

...yeah, pi, I highly recommend killing confirmed PRs next time. Not complaining that I survived, though!