Mini Normal 2148 (Post Game)

[farside22]

Hi to many i haven't seen in quite some time.
VOTE: mala

[farside22]

Town or scum im enjoying hk-50 commitment for posting style.

[farside22]

Town or scum im enjoying hk-50 commitment for posting style.

I hope this wont be a thing. I get bitey after awhile if you dont form your own opinion.

Town or scum im enjoying hk-50 commitment for posting style.

He's scum with votato, but I'll let him live for being amusing

Why is votato part of this sentence?

[Irradiated Statement:]

More shameless buddying? How can I enjoy executing my assassination protocols by wrapping my durasteel vicegrips around organic's boney necks when they offer no countermeasure? I've never seen such a species who end up praising a self-proclaimed harbinger of their doom over the forced expression of said harbinger's vocalizer.

[Wearily Resignation:]

Farside and Notscience imitate the mindless pacifistic ideology of the idoitic jedi, and thus should be terminated with exterminated with extreme prejudice. Such passive behavioral tendencies and mindset tend to come from our targets, the organization known as the mafia, who prefer subtle influencing and lack the backbone to call out the rest of the ship early on.

[Confession:]

They are also preventing the very conflict I wish to experience.

Sorry. Creating a charter or pretending to post a way that isn't real isnt AI. I just found it entertaining.

[farside22]

That's what you get for being passive on page 1

Did you learn your lesson from animal mafia or do you really think NS is scummy?

[farside22]

Why is votato part of this sentence?

I vaguely saw his first post as a partner post

You can’t just tell me not to do something and then expect me not to do that thing

That's how the real world works

That's what you get for being passive on page 1

Did you learn your lesson from animal mafia or do you really think NS is scummy?

What lesson applies here?

Being passive. I called you out day 1 for putting a player at l-1 while you said nothing until then
Id call that pretty damn passive.

[farside22]

[Statement:]

Master Farside! I would advise you not to argue my existence is "made up". It accidently trips my Mark II Philosophy unit, making me ponder my programming. After all, I'm currently in a state of ethical bliss where I massacre all organics in the same, wanton style. Tempering which such a perfect wiring will only lead to decrease efficiency.

UNVOTE: notscience
VOTE: Farside

[Observation:]

However master, I am rather perplexed by the tonal discharge displayed by you in post 29. Despite my strewed desires, you seem deadly serious in your apology when the thread's tone was akin to cheerful banter. Why did you felt the need to Apolgize for the lack of murdering?

[Addendum:]

Assuming your dialogue with Dunnstral has reached its concordance with its primary directive, what did you hope to gain from asking him such a question? It seems you believe that Dunnstral demonstrated a logical gap in that another game he was pushed for being passive as town, yet pushes Notscience here for it. Is this correct? If so, what makes you believe the phrasing by Dunnstral in said evidence is not influenced by random voting stage behavior? As that would be the consequence of such a read.

I thought you were saying you were trying to use your mmmmmm.......... performance to do a reaction test, so I was apologizing if I ruined your fun.
As for Dunn I was curious about his vote and reasoning on NS. I don't think passive is a scum tell if someone was passive themselves. So my question was to see his response to that that. So far I would say his response is noncommittal. Also I'm not a big RVS wagon ho type. So I question players on wagons typically.

[farside22]

VOTE: Hk50

Before robots take over the world

Hey bob. How are you feeling this game so far?

[farside22]

[Statement:]

Master Farside! I would advise you not to argue my existence is "made up". It accidently trips my Mark II Philosophy unit, making me ponder my programming. After all, I'm currently in a state of ethical bliss where I massacre all organics in the same, wanton style. Tempering which such a perfect wiring will only lead to decrease efficiency.

UNVOTE: notscience
VOTE: Farside

[Observation:]

However master, I am rather perplexed by the tonal discharge displayed by you in post 29. Despite my strewed desires, you seem deadly serious in your apology when the thread's tone was akin to cheerful banter. Why did you felt the need to Apolgize for the lack of murdering?

[Addendum:]

Assuming your dialogue with Dunnstral has reached its concordance with its primary directive, what did you hope to gain from asking him such a question? It seems you believe that Dunnstral demonstrated a logical gap in that another game he was pushed for being passive as town, yet pushes Notscience here for it. Is this correct? If so, what makes you believe the phrasing by Dunnstral in said evidence is not influenced by random voting stage behavior? As that would be the consequence of such a read.

I thought you were saying you were trying to use your mmmmmm.......... performance to do a reaction test, so I was apologizing if I ruined your fun.
As for Dunn I was curious about his vote and reasoning on NS. I don't think passive is a scum tell if someone was passive themselves. So my question was to see his response to that that. So far I would say his response is noncommittal. Also I'm not a big RVS wagon ho type. So I question players on wagons typically.

[Cross examination:]

I can understand that rational for the apology and the Dunnstral progression. Mainly the tonal points tripped my circuits because of the lack of understanding my post(s) may of been interpreted as a reaction test.

UNVOTE: Farside

[General Query:]

What does the thread think of master Malakitten's posts?

I haven't moved my vote off of her.
I don't like how she has already attached a scum read off of 2 players based on a video game. Seems like a stretch to me.
And if she has that scum read/feeling why did she vote for NS instead of one of you?
So in all I'd say scum read.

[farside22]

I haven’t really stated it’s a solid scum read. I said I’m back burning it for now, but if one of them flips scum I’m looking into the other as a possible partner. If I truely thought they were scum I’d have voted there.

Hey at least the game is out of RVS now.

Off a video game reference?
I know your haven't played in awhile, but really?

[farside22]

See the thing that I found odd is 2 things
1) In regards to mala is that she said she thought them scum together and wanted to keep that on the back burner even when it was just a reference to a video game. So that just made no sense this early in the game.
2) was this post from GC:

also obviously mala's suspicion of votato is bad, and her back-burner nonsense is silly, but lol nonetheless at farside and notscience

Which to me reads that, well he agrees that everything mala said looks bad or silly but it's scummy to point that out. Then he says this:

her back-burner nonsense is silly

So that reads a lot more asshole than I intended.

But. Like. Anyone who has played videogames and likes Star Wars knows the reference. There's nothing to back burner.

Again that was in my post that he disagreed with. So none of his disagreement match with what he is saying after.


VOTE: Green Crayon

Also funny enough I now have a scum ping on Dunn

[farside22]

Town have bad suspicions all the time.

I have higher expectation for Mala.

@n_m

You’re a towel

@gc

I’m a manager- new company I joined a month ago and I’ve never opened a location before

That's cool. Man the guide lines and the social standards are going to be a pain in the ass for a few months. I haven't even been called to come back to work and my place has been open a month now. They had some people come back so far, but not all.

[farside22]

Anyway.

Also funny enough I now have a scum ping on Dunn

I find this more interesting. Let’s talk about it.

Post 94 is a bit extreme this early in the game to say. Plus i found it interesting dunn is saying the same thing as me.

I have higher expectation for Mala.

That she has a bad reason for suspecting votato/HK can go either way in terms of Mala’s alignment.

The fact that her suspicion is bad is because she isn’t familiar with SW video games means her bad suspicion isn’t alignment indicative.

You “expecting more” of Malta here means you “expected Mala to get the SW reference so she wouldn’t have had the bad suspicion.”

Unless if you think she’s lying about missing the SW reference.

I think she said she sees it was in regards to a video game but still finds them suspect as possible team is more then a bit ridiculous

[farside22]

See the thing that I found odd is 2 things
1) In regards to mala is that she said she thought them scum together and wanted to keep that on the back burner even when it was just a reference to a video game. So that just made no sense this early in the game.
2) was this post from GC:

also obviously mala's suspicion of votato is bad, and her back-burner nonsense is silly, but lol nonetheless at farside and notscience

Which to me reads that, well he agrees that everything mala said looks bad or silly but it's scummy to point that out. Then he says this:

her back-burner nonsense is silly

So that reads a lot more asshole than I intended.

But. Like. Anyone who has played videogames and likes Star Wars knows the reference. There's nothing to back burner.

Again that was in my post that he disagreed with. So none of his disagreement match with what he is saying after.


VOTE: Green Crayon

Also funny enough I now have a scum ping on Dunn

So how strong was your read on mala at that point. As it feels more to me like someone poking a small bump in the lawn. Than a suspected ants nest. ( i know i'm bad at analogies )

You say certainly scum read her to some degree but if mala is scum then why are your voting for green now?

As you haven't said you no longer suspect mala. But if you still think mala could be scum even if it is weak reads so far. Then what do you think greens motive would be.

As rather i get teh impression from greens actions that if he is scum. Then it feels more like him trying to white knight a fellow townie rather than instead trying to deflect us from suspecting mala.

You don't say hi back and you start by asking questions.....again?
Can't say i find your questions any more appealing or informative as our last game together.
But ill play along for a moment.
For page 3 the read was strong enough to start something. I am currently waiting to see if mala does anything more in the game and called out GC because yes it read a bit buddyish and his defense comes across for mala is very odd.

[farside22]

I ask as at the moment i'm in a slight town reading mala. In my experience scum tends to avoid jumping on rvs wagons when they have already stacked up 3 votes. Either mala is scum and unafraid of the spotlight or as i feel at the moment a fellow townie that simply does not have anything to fear in the first place.

Only seen twice scum on 4thed place on rvs wagon. One was when scum was being rvs wagoned and the other was a scum player that spent much of the rest of the game jumping on wagons.


And mala comments on hk feel that it matches that pattern as well. Of a anotehr townie that inst afraid to get their neck stuck in and let thier views be known.

I never really noticed where scum voted on a BW during before. I typically know it isn't the first person and the hammer tends to come from town more then scum. Inbetween is a crap shot.
There are scum hammers as we both saw.

*Ducks*

Too soon?

You could be right about mala, it just felt weird/read weirds to me.

[farside22]

That second questions open to DP and farside too before I effort and read those wall posts from bob and bot

Bob reads well so far. It's still early but nothing jumps out as bad. I think HK is just proding people. I find one question a bit non-sense so far but to each there own.

That second questions open to DP and farside too before I effort and read those wall posts from bob and bot

Dunnstral

VOTE: dunn

[farside22]

[farside22]

Post # /post

But with [] around them

217

OMG I'm saving this I had no clue it worked like that. I have been copying the url, pasting the url and using the url link all this time..
Sorry I'm happy to know about this now.

[farside22]

^^^ I don't see how that makes farside town. It does strengthen Dunn being scum.

I felt the way I felt. I can't help my pings on players.

There should be more votes on Dunn too with your follow up spoilers post.


@NS: Who else are you suspicious of? I see a lot of filler coming from you but nothing stating a scum read. Or even following of anyone.
BM: Hey BM, how are you? Taking some lumps I see......would you mind voting Dunn and we can chat later about if you are scum or town and about play style later?
Thanks!!

[farside22]

So you said you would vote far or dun over their mala push. Was that the reason for your vote on dun as in that post you talked about how you felt that mala was town. Rather than talking about your read on dun. Was it duns mala vote that spurned your vote? If so what about dun lead you to scum read him enough to vote.

With all you later mentioning in post 99 about dun and farside in relation to their push on mala.

Since both dun and far and even NS voted mala prior to your dun posts. What is your read on those two players that you didn't vote for. Why dun over them.

This feels like it's overcomplicating my Dunn vote and kinda feels like a buddy/protect to Dunn.

Simply put, Dunn's Mala push was really disingenuous and very reachy. I disliked it because it painted Mala as scummy for something that wasn't even AI.

Bob tends to ask questions that look scummy on paper. I ranted to him our last game for how bad his questions were and called him scummy.

Votato is typically posting more by this point in the game. So i don't mind the vote from mala.
I feel like grabing GC lol spoiler wall and asking why players are not voting dunn.
Im null with bm comments so far.

[farside22]

I think they asked a great question to Dunnstral in post 20 that more likely than not comes from town in my opinion, although I could be wrong which is why it's limited to just a townlean.

lol

I did miss this. Nice catch.

VOTE: hk 50 i know that you're really an assassin droid

Town or scum im enjoying hk-50 commitment for posting style.

He's scum with votato, but I'll let him live for being amusing

Why is votato part of this sentence?

I vaguely saw his first post as a partner post

VOTE: Malakittens

You are mafia

Por que?

I don't like the way you went about the early game,

votato + hk50

, and then the notscience vote

People need to
read this quote wall and ask how dunn push on mala makes sense!

[farside22]

mala or bob, with me leaning towards bob

I'm thinking NS is scum on that wagon.

Votato's play reminds me a lot of the large normal that just finished, where he reads scummy as hell but his reads are just wrong. Can't say I'm a fan of the new play style. I much preferred Gun's and Roses mafia and of course Animal Mafia where he was just plain scum and got lucky that his scum buddy got him out of being lynched day 1.

So my top 2 scum reads are Dunn/NS. Still debating on who the 3rds scum is but those 2 are my strongest ones.

[farside22]

farside, could you elaborate on your scumreads?

Dunn scum read you can find: here Thanks in part to GC for finding the massive discrepancy.
And if you are unclear why this scummy. Mala was calling you and hk scum together as well. Dunn basically agreed with those scum reads then switched to mala is scummy for saying the exact same fucking thing.

As for NS well I don't like his vote on you. He ignored the Dunn wagon and his reads here really have no explanation.
Like BM for example was pretty much not saying much, Gera hasn't offered much but he went with voting for you over others.
Why the criticism for DP?
I get the impression the list is a reason for him not to vote for Dunn.

I have a few null reads: BM, geraintm and mala.

I'm equating your play to large normal and NM I have a gut ping he is town (now he has tricked me in the past so I'm not married to my gut) but I get where he is going with BM.

[farside22]

^^^ I don't see how that makes farside town. It does strengthen Dunn being scum.

I felt the way I felt. I can't help my pings on players.

There should be more votes on Dunn too with your follow up spoilers post.


@NS: Who else are you suspicious of? I see a lot of filler coming from you but nothing stating a scum read. Or even following of anyone.
BM: Hey BM, how are you? Taking some lumps I see......would you mind voting Dunn and we can chat later about if you are scum or town and about play style later?
Thanks!!

Yep yep, usual fare!

I'm not so keen on Dunn
Maybe he's just not scum
Annie did tell me so
and scum is votato



I'm worried about this "play style" chat...are you gonna bash me too?

Not a fun that 1 comment = town compared to his now lurking while votato takes pressure.

Your making me a sad puppy right now bm.

so i painstakingly went over geraintm's entire ISO. there isnt even a an attempt to pretend to scumhunt. that slot definitely deserves pressure, but he is so brazen that I'm guessing town over scum actually. maybe. i dunno, its worth voting there and forcing some effort out of the slot.

The dunn thing does actually seem like a plausible scumslip.

Very true. They are at best just comments made to look active while saying nothing important

[farside22]

You know who said that farside?

Me

When he was very clearly actively reading the thread and replied 7 min after a question but hasn’t done anything

But I’m not giving reasons right

So why vote votato over him?

[farside22]

For literally what we’ve said in thread

I sat watching this man lurk his way to a scum victory and he enters the game lurking and I’m not supposed to think he’s scum for it???? I just couldn’t say anything until a few hours ago bc ongoing game rules are a thing

What do you think of votato response.

@bm: no

Ebwop: why not?

[farside22]

^^^ I don't see how that makes farside town. It does strengthen Dunn being scum.

I felt the way I felt. I can't help my pings on players.

There should be more votes on Dunn too with your follow up spoilers post.


@NS: Who else are you suspicious of? I see a lot of filler coming from you but nothing stating a scum read. Or even following of anyone.
BM: Hey BM, how are you? Taking some lumps I see......would you mind voting Dunn and we can chat later about if you are scum or town and about play style later?
Thanks!!

Yep yep, usual fare!

I'm not so keen on Dunn
Maybe he's just not scum
Annie did tell me so
and scum is votato



I'm worried about this "play style" chat...are you gonna bash me too?

Not a fun that 1 comment = town compared to his now lurking while votato takes pressure.

Your making me a sad puppy right now bm.

so i painstakingly went over geraintm's entire ISO. there isnt even a an attempt to pretend to scumhunt. that slot definitely deserves pressure, but he is so brazen that I'm guessing town over scum actually. maybe. i dunno, its worth voting there and forcing some effort out of the slot.

The dunn thing does actually seem like a plausible scumslip.

Very true. They are at best just comments made to look active while saying nothing important

im surprised to see such agreement with 350. it wasnt a great post. i waffled a lot, and didnt take a real stance. and you just sheeped it a bit without any analysis yourself. what exactly is your read on me farside? cuz im pretty sure you've called me scum and then also town, and you prodded me a bit but backed right off.

current solve {BM, farside, ???}

You realize im comparing you to a game you were town in right?
There isn't much else to add with germa.

[farside22]

I feel like taking a page out of abr's book when he says take everything you think and flip it. Your reads might improve.

[farside22]

That comment is directly to votato

[farside22]

I saw battle mage playing similar to this as town.

And I saw Dunnstral playing completely different to this as scum.

I've seen Dunn play differently as town then this.

[farside22]

I'm.not feeling votato as scum. I do think we can look at geraintm tho.

I feel strongly about Dunn scum but would not be opposed to geraintm.

Gross, now votato is acting suspicious.

He's a VI. If you want a link to his past games, let me know.

[farside22]

Y'all are killing me right now.

Do it!!!!!

[farside22]

unofficial vote count:


votato (3): Malakittens, bob3141, Battle Mage
Dunnstral (5): DoctorPepper, farside22, HK 50, notscience, stungun0404
Battle Mage (3): Not_Mafia, votato, Green Crayons
notscience (1): geraintm
Malakittens (1): Dunnstral
Not voting (0):

[farside22]

I remember the first time I played with you where getting a read on you was like trying to get blood out of stone.

What was his alignment?

[farside22]

You are still ignoring dunn contradiction why?

[farside22]

Like dunns whole scum read on mala is something he said too. This is not freaking rocket scientists. He's going to make shit reads now that make no fucking sense and lurk.
Fuck no

[farside22]

mod v/la for 2 days maybe 3

[farside22]

ill be shocked if there isnt scum in {farside, dunn}

You should vote dunn

You are still ignoring dunn contradiction why?

I think GC is scummier and has more contradictions and more of what I find to be a scummy agenda. Will post more on that soon.

Can you explain what contradictions you found?

[farside22]

SG is a town read. I read 455 so you can ignore my question. I can't say I don't like your post or see where your coming from. If I stated my gut read was strong with Dunn over GC would you understand?
Probably not, people never understand stubborn players. Lets see. I will say one thing I disagreed with and the tone of GC is normal for that type of player. I know when I scum read someone and no one is listening I get pretty bitching in my posting style (apparently that is scummy to player, which is news to me). But what it boils down to is sometimes, like for me I feel so sure a player is scum I literally want to reach inside the computer and shake players who are ignoring what I see and I'm saying. Also people change there reads tend to look more town (maybe why people scum read me when I tunnel so much).
Where as Dunn hasn't explained his contradiction about Mala or explained further any scum reads. In my view players that explain less have less to get caught in and tend to flip scum.

nope. i have the same read on you that stungun does. your posts are throwing shade everywhere without committing to a push or really attacking anyone.

This is reading way too buddyish. I also wonder why you didn't pick a side between me vs dunn.


Stopping here. I'm not feeling to fad, I got some sleepy medicine in my system but I'll try to be back and read more later today.

[farside22]

i havent picked a side in you vs dunn because i could buy both of you as scum, so im waiting to see how things shake out.

Why the scum read on me?
I know you think I tunnel only on you from the last game, which was incorrect, so what is pinging you?

[farside22]

I feel like my read on NS should change......I know that sounds odd, but i just finished a game where a player says all the things that sound right but still that weird ringing sound is in the back of your head saying. NO DON'T BUY IT!!
I wish mala said something more. I feel like when I read her post it's all surface level posting that offers nothing new to the conversation.

It's possible I guess, but votato or Battle Mage is today's lynch

what exactly is the case against me? i realize that my vote was a bit lazy/sheepy but i did say that i found GC suspicious before stun's case. so either i expected a good case and decided to bus before i even knew why i was bussing, or stun read my mind and said exactly what i was thinking. i guess ill leave it to you to decide which is more likely

Fos votato

Bad unicorn, bad. I'm not sure what your trying to do with your interaction with GC. Half I was like is he really trying to get GC to scum read him or is he goading GC for a reason. The other half is like, wow that guy.
Just going to say one last time. I hate your play style.
*take fos back*
*glares at votato*

post 518 this is making no sense to me. BM is usually more logical then this unless he is on tilt, no reason for tilt at this point.

Sigh now GC, he is on tilt. I need something strong to drink to read through his post. I can tell at this point it is going toward rage/none sense mode.
hmmm note to self check GC meta. I don't like GC's rant over BM's requested replacement. It's a bit over the top.

@Mala: Who are you currently scum reading?

Mage/votato/Dunn

Vote Dunn with me!

I find it weird that geraintm and dunn are suddenly coming out of the woodwork sticking up for BM, and dunn has already stuck up against geraintm being lynched, and geraintm weakly against dunn? Anyone else find this strange?

Meh. I have seen scum stick up for town and buddy those that are on players scum list. I find that NAI typically for that reason.


I stopped on page 25, I have to run out shortly. I hope to have a finally thought or at least scum list when I'm done. I had a weird thought that hit me while I was reading things and I want to reread a few things over to see if I'm going crazy.

[farside22]

I do it to get that glare from you farside

I hate to say it but I’m still ok with a Dunn lynch. As much as I didn’t like BM’s posts.. the SG flop is going to be a turn off right now in terms of voting there until I sort that out. Gera is off the table for today, but note I’m not sold on him being scum
Or town. He’s really null for me; the same with NM.

What do you think of GC's reaction and comments about BM and SG?

[farside22]

I hate to say it but I’m still ok with a Dunn lynch. As much as I didn’t like BM’s posts.. the SG flop is going to be a turn off right now in terms of voting there until I sort that out. Gera is off the table for today, but note I’m not sold on him being scum
Or town. He’s really null for me; the same with NM.

My gut feeling is that dun is town. As i just can't see scum blatantly making blank votes on a player claiming to scum read him and the other going wagon. It feels too blatant for scum. Would have thought that if he is scum then he would have tried dressing it up, instead he simply posts a series of quotes and doesn't say why they lead him to scum reading not mafia.

Would scum real vote for someone when their last comment on that player was that he had in fact had no read on them. If he was scum i would have expected something along the lines of something between a few short sentences to several paragraphs.

Just something I have learned over the years. Never assume what scum would do or say given a situation. Players can fake reads, use emotions, talk out of their ass or be completely honest. I go based on what makes sense in the game. I question those reads to see if they are valid. Hence why scum players hate me.
I know you weren't alive during the time but ABR faked claim a cop claim and I caught that it was fake due to timing and his unvote and how many players said, well I don't see why scum would do that. So that's my brain in a nutshell. Reread Dunn's iso and ask yourself did he ever explain his scum read on Mala and about the discrepancy where he scum read vot and hk for the same reason.
Why was it scummy for mala when he stated the same thing?

I feel like my read on NS should change......I know that sounds odd, but i just finished a game where a player says all the things that sound right but still that weird ringing sound is in the back of your head saying. NO DON'T BUY IT!!

I’m town as fuck farside

I’m sorry that’s the only thing I can say atm! I’ll weigh in soon

It’s been 24 hours since clidd said he’d give reads btw

I'm not chasing you for my thoughts. I don't see that you did anything scummy just those gut twinges that sneak in there.

So far, I feel good in asserting these players as more likely town than not: Not Science, farside, Dr. Pepper, Mala
Gut is also leaning town with Bob.

That means I think in all likelihood all scum have to be in this group of 7 players {NM, geraintm, GC, HK, Dunnstral, votato, BM}

Catching up a bit more accurately and it’s weird the whole gang is in these town leans but idk if it’s gamblers fallacy or what

I will say one thing I disagreed with and the tone of GC is normal for that type of player.

Pls clarify is this agreeing with my stance or disagreeing I’m confused what you’re trying to say

I’m caught up

Stun gun is very wordy and I think it’s weird he asked the robot to be less though but I’m not sure it’s AI or not but man that guy can type some long posts

Mala why is my read progression re you town if you said yourself you expected to be tunneled all game

I’m flip flopping on voteto

I think mala town
Far town
Stun town
Gc town
Robot town

I’m nulltown reading bm?
Idk about dp

I was going to say something till I saw your list. Did you check GC's meta that was referenced?

I thought reading GC that he was getting mad about his push and it was reading like he was offended that he even had to explain himself. But after researching his meta and rereading his points on BM I'm feeling differently about GC. He recent games are town so far (I didn't check older games) and he is more laid back and not this bitchy typically. Or this full of himself so I'm now leaning more towards a scum read. Plus I feel like he is being a bit over the top on his read and reaction to BM.

So my weird scum reads are Dunn and GC
my unsure pile geraintm, HK 50, Malakittens, notscience

[farside22]

Hun im not letting go of my vote on dunn till he explains his scum read on mala and why what she said was scummy when he thought the same thing.
If you continue to let him bypass that he will continue to do shit fucking all to explain

[farside22]

Hun im not letting go of my vote on dunn till he explains his scum read on mala and why what she said was scummy when he thought the same thing.
If you continue to let him bypass that he will continue to do shit fucking all to explain

I can understand why you feel that way, but have you played with Dunnstral where he was town before? I know he does things like that sometimes which make him lynchbait as town. I remember two games, in fact, where he seemed like an easy mislynch in games where I was scum.

Yes. We played animal mafia. Day 1 he put a player to l-1 as his first post. He came out a bit more that same game day and put thoughts that made sense and i stopped scum reading him shortly after.
Im not seeing anything similar her. So i will just blame you if hes scum this game since your on a taggent that is completely different then my own thoughts.

[farside22]

If I disregard my feelings about you, that team would have to imply that town has not had any scum pressure for the last few days it seems. Either:
That is the case and the team HAS to be that,

Scum is fine with the status quo and is not eager to move away and slash or are fine to bus a partner (dunn/clidd) potentially. Which I buy more for occ. Razor.

Votato I have an independent gut town read. The shenanigans by him like the wrong thread post are normal across both metas as a bad attempt at shitposting. I townread him mainly based on the progression of stuff like 650 (iirc that's the right post number) where he declares it is wishy washy to pressure farside. I think scumvotato would of gone around it differently then to discredit his own position in the thread. I also dont think there was much agency by him during yours and his interaction to find someone to scum read. His slow going nature points to town.

Clidd really has nothing AI. BM I dont really have a read on. I came to a realization that trying to use my meta knowledge about him is flawed due to his entrance and comparing it to the newbie game he referenced losing. I think there is a potential that he's playing against meta based on some inconsistencies from what his take away was that game to here and more importantly the remark "I just lost a town game where I did analysis wow!"

I feel the bold to be pretty spot on. I think if dunn was town he would have been an easy lynch. His vote on nm is lazy as that is how nm is and he avoids discussing anything relevant.

This vote situation appears tricky...

It's 4 vs. 4, and 3 more votes are needed to secure either lynch. The 2 sides seem pretty set overall. Off of the wagons, we have 2 of my scumspects I don't think will move (Clidd and Votato), and then Geraintm and Dunn who are on useless wagons right now.

This means that, ultimately, I feel either of our wagons can only trust bob right now to break the tie. But still, the leading wagon will need two more votes from there to lynch.

Thus, I feel like we're going to have to strike a deal between the two sides, then, or we might have trouble lynching. So, I tell you what:

@Farside, @Dr. Pepper, @NS

, since I trust you are all three town, would you guys be willing to potentially move over and lynch Clidd this day phase provided that I promise you that we lynch either Dunn or Votato next day phase?

@HK

, even though I am not set on you being town, I will extend this offer to you as well.

Now, the reason I include Votato there with Dunn is the obvious association that Votato has with BM that we will have to take into account when lynching tomorrow, provided a Clidd scumflip. If Clidd flukily flips town, we lynch Dunn, guaranteed tomorrow.

We do not currently have a clear second lead with a lynch of Dunnstral, but we do with a lynch of Clidd. Both myself and NM (and I feel like maybe someone else but I don't remember who?) have found the interactions between BM and Votato to be like that of scumpartners. Thus, we could have the best future results in this game if we are correct on a BM scum lynch today. Wouldn't it be best to knock that out now and not have both Votato and BM alive tomorrow to still deal with as a potential pair? I mean, we could potentially start this game off with back-to-back scum lynches!

And I promise you, I will willingly sacrifice Dunnstral tomorrow if it comes down to that. I very adamantly do not want him to go today though because I suspect he is town, and I do not want a town mislynch on D1.

How about you join me on dunn.
Sorry the last player to make a promise like that lied to me so I tend to not make those agreements anymore.
If you want a gc lynch id be on there.

[farside22]

Hun im not letting go of my vote on dunn till he explains his scum read on mala and why what she said was sc
Considering your reads in that game where more ummy when he thought the same thing.
If you continue to let him bypass that he will continue to do shit fucking all to explain

I can understand why you feel that way, but have you played with Dunnstral where he was town before? I know he does things like that sometimes which make him lynchbait as town. I remember two games, in fact, where he seemed like an easy mislynch in games where I was scum.

Yes. We played animal mafia. Day 1 he put a player to l-1 as his first post. He came out a bit more that same game day and put thoughts that made sense and i stopped scum reading him shortly after.
Im not seeing anything similar her. So i will just blame you if hes scum this game since your on a taggent that is completely different then my own thoughts.

Hey guess what

All that came out at deadline when the entire rest of the town was failing to lynch anyone because I alone was inactive, and then I pulled out a lynch

Do I have to do the same thing here?

No. You rallied after the l-1, players pushed you and you responded. You lol'd the whole fucking thing off as why os that scummy.
This is a statement you made that contradicts you.

[farside22]

If anyone can link the post link to the main BM case that would be swell because I'm sure as hell too lazy to dig for it.

I can be convinced of scum BM despite disagreeing with the votato pairing. I want Dunnstral though preferably because it gives more information. Just off the top of my head:

If scum:

-Depending on the formation of the BM wagon, this could point to town BM if it was heavily pushed for without much countermeasure (aka mafia allowed it to happen).

-Stunguns stance on Dunnstral throughout day 1
-Farside, GC, and bob are pretty surely town

-votato is town due to the opening post by Dunnstral

-malakitten is prob town too although I need to revisit that.

If town:

-Farside/bob scum equity goes up (this is my bargaining chip. You want to see my little secret? Gotta keep my robot ass alive and flip Dunnstral).

-im wrong about stungun most likely and they are town

-BM/Clidd equity for scum goes up.

-Im sure there are points that help sort conscience, malakitten, and GC.

I confess it doesnt help solve the militank nor Germy germ, but I also confess I stop paying attention to such weaklings

There has been less resistance to a Dunnstral wagon than a BM wagon, which still has never reached a majority this day phase, unlike Dunn which has been the primary majority.

Obviously, since the majority has been 4 votes lately, scum isn't really helping us too much with these votes, or I'm sure we would be closer to a lynch.

What on earth makes Votato town based on a post by Dunnstral? What kind of crazy logic? He should be town based off his own posts from your angle, but not someone else's. That is really weird.

Look, you're also willing to flip on my townreads provided that Dunn flips town. I do not like that, as I am townreading both Bob and farside. I see you and think you are lining up lynches here, since you think they are both town currently.

You want an extra day with BM/Clidd & Votato, don't you?

Just my gut read right now.

@Farside

: I have to say no to moving to Dunnstral, unless he's a majority and we are threatened with a no lynch situation or Dunnstral.

I hope you will do the same thing provided it's Clidd or no lynch, because a lynch obviously favors us more than a no lynch.

I'd flip to vote if needed. Don't like the follow votes going on. I see a lot of information without flips going on and it just leads to a bad place.

clidd has requested an additional day to be added onto the clock. The new end of day is in (expired on 2020-06-24 07:23:04).

Is it not scummy to add an extra day to the clock only to use more than double that amount of time up without even saying so much as a word like "I am having trouble catching up" or something? I can understand busyness, but at the same time it only takes about 15-30 seconds to come in and say something like that, and it also helps us.

Do you think for a second that might be scum that has no defense for what I called them out about on Friday?

Votato has also not answered. It has been >36 hours since I asked those questions, and HK only responded after I asked him a second time. Do you think there is a reason these players are dodging those questions?

Please don't make a molehill into a mountain. Chill and let the player catch up. People get busy and frankly I find your attitude a bit rude in this department.

There is a metric ton of associative theory going on without a flip.

I agree.......why are you voting for BM/Clidd and who are your other scum reads?

[farside22]

It is becoming hard to imagine that farside is acting in good faith

Its hard to believe anything you say.

What is farside not acting in good faith on

Hes just scum acting.

[farside22]

I was going to say something till I saw your list. Did you check GC's meta that was referenced?

I thought reading GC that he was getting mad about his push and it was reading like he was offended that he even had to explain himself. But after researching his meta and rereading his points on BM I'm feeling differently about GC. He recent games are town so far (I didn't check older games) and he is more laid back and not this bitchy typically. Or this full of himself so I'm now leaning more towards a scum read. Plus I feel like he is being a bit over the top on his read and reaction to BM.

Does he typically have to take a leading role in dragging town with him?

Instance attempt at a distancing vote? Note the wording: I "know" that you are really an "assassin droid".

How can you "know" that he is an "assassin droid" unless you are, in fact, scum with him?

Hi theres this great website called google.com that says thats literally what the type of droid is and weve already covered that votato is clearly a fan of star wars and the game thats being referenced.

Didnt we literally spend 10 pages covering how that isnt scummy

Also note all three of Votato, BM and GC have weakly sheep-voted people, using players as shields.

You do realize scum arent likely to do the exact same thing and hide themselves in the exact same styles?

Lie. No follow through (which in this case is anti-town).

votato

tell him my stance on this tia, you should remember my stance on active anti-townity from our last game.

They have all three lied. Lynch all liars. Lying about simple and clear intentions with no follow-through and lying to implicate me is what can be considered scummy here. Simple as that.

OTOH, Dunn has

not

made one single blatant lie in this game. You can ISO everything he has said to confirm that there is no blatant lie. That's the difference between town and scum I think in this particular game.

Not that the "lynch all liars" approach always works, but in this case I think it leads us to the correct solve.

Im not lynching people based off preflip associatives and them "lying" about when they plan to finish catching up because this is a GAME and people have REAL LIVES to focus on.

wait I have to be funny

DAMN STRAIGHT YOU DO

@Farside, @Dr. Pepper, @NS, since I trust you are all three town, would you guys be willing to potentially move over and lynch Clidd this day phase provided that I promise you that we lynch either Dunn or Votato next day phase?

Fuck ass no

I feel the bold to be pretty spot on. I think if dunn was town he would have been an easy lynch. His vote on nm is lazy as that is how nm is and he avoids discussing anything relevant.

IMO only way scums comfy rn is if one of them is leading the apathy wagons.

It does feel sort of suspect looking back. Bm makes a scummy vote on vota. The vota wagon gets quickly abandoned and when he is benign suspect he makes a weak push on dun being town. All the while never really trying to explain how he managed to come to the opposite conclusion using one of your points. Until just before he repped out.

I abandoned it due to cold feet re my own thoughts on votato not related to the wagon and I daresay Im the reason that wagon fell apart, and why are we doing preflip associatives like this.

Robot 728 is town.

-Im sure there are points that help sort conscience, malakitten, and GC.

Im town my darling little curling iron

Is it not scummy to add an extra day to the clock only to use more than double that amount of time up without even saying so much as a word like "I am having trouble catching up" or something? I can understand busyness, but at the same time it only takes about 15-30 seconds to come in and say something like that, and it also helps us.

Do you think for a second that might be scum that has no defense for what I called them out about on Friday?

Votato has also not answered. It has been >36 hours since I asked those questions, and HK only responded after I asked him a second time. Do you think there is a reason these players are dodging those questions?

1) Cases on availability on players not regarded as lurkers of a typical alignment are trash

2) Don't you think scum that had a defense for it would have posted it super quick instead of, as you say, avoiding it?

3) Why do they even need to answer a case that literally boils down to their interactions with someone else that they might not necessarily be on a team with? "YOU HAVE TO BE SCUM FOR DOING THIS WITH THAT SCUM" doesnt really work. Besides, you aren't going to convince those players they are scum. They either know they are or know they arent you cant convince someone of that shit cases are purely to try to convince the rest of the game to follow you.

4) Why do I have to explain these base concepts that you are using to force an apathy lynch?

Read mine and stunguns when you get a chance and tell me what you think and why.

Yes my beloved flashlight.

I think its just really misguided town. I fully agree with the points you are bringing up, but we don’t really have a solid other option presently.

There is a metric ton of associative theory going on without a flip.

THANK YOU

honestly im a bit suspicious of stun for how hard he's spamming the thread pushing inactives, but i think he just got caught up in the excitement of seeing several events happening and unconsciously tying them together. i think it would be a terrible play for the scumteam to ask for more time and then all go afk at the same time.

Yes its the same thing that made me suspect dolly originally and given the gamestate it does kind of make sense. Im back and forth on him because it did feel like he was TvT with GC earlier. But idk.

I feel like hes trying to inject life into a town similar to how I was last game so its whats holding me off atm, but there has to be a scum thats trying to pull strings.

Phone posting so, long and short of BM/Clidd is that BM’s wonky posts that NM called out

I dont really feel like NM has done much calling out and moreso that hes just been tunneling regardless of BMs alignment

GC games he asked more questions in this game
replaced in here putting out reads but thoughts but I don't see either game were he gets pissy or bitchy to anyone.
Games after those are 2018 or older and I know players can change from a few years break but the more recent games is why I don't see his over the top anything like he typically has been recently.

[farside22]

@farside: oddly enough, earlier when I was doing a meta on GC, that is exactly what stood out to me. The fact that he was not asking many questions, but I wanted to keep that information to my self in case it is a scumtell for him.

That is really what originally led me to want to really look at him. Because if he asks a lot of questions in more than one game of his meta as town, then when you see the opposite, is he scum?

I don't see anything that shows him doing it here, so yes I would say he is scum.

I don't intend to hammer Clidd, if the wagon is going to shift to me I'll defend myself.

I like this post from Dunnstral right here. It will look good especially if there is a scumflip of clidd. if Clidd's town, then it holds less weight, because technically that could mean a scum Dunnstral is not wanting to lynch town here.

I observed that he took up on an opportunity in his meta as scum after replacing into a game to hammer a townplayer immediately after someone asked him to do so. He didn't even debate it, he just did it.

Now granted, that person had a power role which we might to note that scum may have known, but given that he hasn't followed anyone asking about a hammer so far, this does look good to me if Clidd flips scum. NM has asked him, which he could have taken up on that opportunity, but has not and is currently resisting the opposing wagon to himself.

Let see we are close to deadline and he isn't' making any compromises on a wagon, no he's scum baby.
check here how things were in animal toward the end of day 1

some strange townreads, and some townreads in the wrong order. like why is dr p so high up as an inactive? do you really not have enough info to have reads on myself or GC at this point?

Didn't you have icon as town in GnR mafia we player?

[farside22]

Hun im not letting go of my vote on dunn till he explains his scum read on mala and why what she said was scummy when he thought the same thing.
If you continue to let him bypass that he will continue to do shit fucking all to explain

It doesn't matter what I thought. I don't have to townread her just because she pushed the same early read as me. I thought the way and timing that she jumped onto it + the notscience stuff at the time was scummy.

How was it scummy? What exactly about the timing was different?

[farside22]

How generous of stungun to offer my lynch in case he's wrong on my townread

Let see we are close to deadline and he isn't' making any compromises on a wagon, no he's scum baby.
check here how things were in animal toward the end of day 1

That isn't me compromising, that's me leading a wagon with hours left on deadline because town spent all day phase tunneling on my slot without actually being able to lynch me (same as this game), somebody saying they're not going to do it at deadline, and me switching to another wagon, with everyone following me again

What you should be concerned with is that I was voted day 1 in that game for similarly flimsy reasons (including multiple members of the scum team parking their vote on me)

That's a lie, you were pushing your scum read on votato that game and I'm bad at looking at meta from games I was not part of. That is evident from reading jjh that game and bob in a previous game. So asking me to search every game from you while providing no evidence to contradict is not something I should have to do.

Bc I’ve been drinking and now my neighbors who I was porch chilling with have left, let’s run down the player list.


votato - I’m thinking town but siiigh
bob3141 - leaning town now tbh
DoctorPepper - null bit was thinking town at some point
Not_Mafia- town Honestly not sure how folks can’t see between the lines with his posting.
geraintm - pretty sure town
Ghost Ganster stungun0404 - town Like, annoyingly super town and I say annoyingly because he can get a thought in his head and it might be wrong by gd he runs it down.
Green Crayons - town
farside22 - honestly thinking scum. Sorry <3
HK 50 - town, even tho I don’t k ow where he’s coming from with his fixation on stun
Battle Mage clidd - scum
Malakittens - null. Like if you put a gun to my head I’d slot her town but damn she’s been pretty absent in a way I cannot read
notscience - town. Not even a Q.
Dunnstral - scum

Reorganizing this so it's easier to parse.

Your reads:

Town: Notscience, HK 50, stungun0404, geraintm, Not_Mafia, votato
Leaning or Null Town: bob3141
Null but kind of almost leaning town: DoctorPepper, Malakittens

Scum: Dunnstral, clidd, farside22


hmmm.... these reads stink when you look at them this way. votato liking this is yuck, he only likes it because he's town in this list

the distancing from you and GC is priceless.

I feel the bold to be pretty spot on. I think if dunn was town he would have been an easy lynch. His vote on nm is lazy as that is how nm is and he avoids discussing anything relevant.

So why can't he be scum, exactly?

NS acts that way regardless of alignment. What do you think he gains as scum just pushing BM and now he votes you? So again all you are doing is OMGUS to players that push you as a scum read.
That's not scum hunting.

And this wagon on clidd is equally bad. I'm not doing that, I'll tell you guys where we can vote instead:

Not_Mafia
farside22
HK 50
DoctorPepper

Not sure on Green Crayons because while his content is bad I don't personally feel like he's scummy, maybe just looking at the game wrong (and he is, if those are his scumreads)
Malakittens, IDK. Leave her for later
DoctorPepper voted me in post 97 (!) then coasted all day and nobody ever tried to start anything there or even called him out. I get that scum already have a wagon on me going, but really? Not even a passing mention, and geraintm gets some?
Not_Mafia is playing the same way he does as scum. I dare anyone to try to refute me.
farside22 is clearly not engaging in good faith and is instead looking to lynch me today
HK 50 is constantly rehashing old points and his points are

bad

and manipulative

VOTE: farside22

Multiple people have expressed a scumread here, so let's do it. Lynch farside.

No case found that you made, other then what I tunnel, which I did and do. Others find me scummy and no one said why so that = scum?
Others find me town. Again this is not a case and you are just OMGUS at this point.

[farside22]

Her vote on not science came after multiple players voted notscience, and then she posted this:

Now taking a deeper look into HT50. If one of Vot or HT50 flips scum I’m ok with them being partnered. This is HT50’s first game. I obv get it that’s it’s an alt account. But the whole knowledge felt off to me

Which felt... manipulative.

She also has germ as null and I don't really see her doing much but making observational post then actual scum hunting post.

hmmm.... these reads stink when you look at them this way. votato liking this is yuck, he only likes it because he's town in this list

And I suspect you might not like it because of where you land on it

votato's sudden warmth towards me hasn't gone unnoticed

Could we get a GC wagon going? Just look at how bad his pushes are on BM, and his behavior in comparison to other games. This is typically lol I'm going to throw shit post from scum.

[farside22]

Dunn just vote clidd please

Not without a claim does anyone vote for clidd. If anyone does they are scum.

[farside22]

That's a lie, you were pushing your scum read on votato that game

Well yes, I led a wagon on someone I believed to be scum

And then it clearly wasn't happening due to hard resistance from a certain player, so I led a wagon on someone else who was suspicious who said player would vote

and I'm bad at looking at meta from games I was not part of.

OK.

So asking me to search every game from you while providing no evidence to contradict is not something I should have to do.

I can dig up the games myself, but if you can't read meta off of them there's no point, is there.

No case found that you made, other then what I tunnel, which I did and do.

You are open to having your opinion changed as town. I've seen you tunnel in animals mafia

Again this is not a case and you are just OMGUS at this point.

I shouldn't have to keep chanting that you need to explain yourself over and over again. You know I want a response and yes I can change my mind but only if the player I'm pushing actually engages in the game.
So why are you being stubborn about it?
Why the need to wait to respond to the contractions?

So again all you are doing is OMGUS to players that push you as a scum read.

When everyone is going insane there isn't much room left to look for sane, reasonable scum hiding among the rest of the players. Also, is it really omgus when over half the playerlist is pushing me? Who am I supposed to push that is an *approved push*?

Most players are voting BM. If you think that player is town why are you not pushing there?

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p11865547

Battle Mage appears to be playing the same in this game as they are in this game

The last post they made in this game was really towny

Clidd lurking out is NAI

This I actually agree with.

Would have been nice had you made more of a post like this then staying silent. I still don't get why mala's timing is off based on the early start or why it's scummy when you stated the same thing.
Can you at least walk me through your thought process?

[farside22]

Because, despite you claiming my BM/Clidd vote is lazy and farside saying it's a bad push, I'm an OG believer in a BM vote. I'm happy to vote farside tomorrow, especially if BM/Clidd is scum.

Why not vote farside now?

You think your BM case is more convincing than reading farside's posts right now? Is it just because clidd is closer to the votes needed to lynch?

You realize there is no case on me right?
Your pushing votes that is based on me voting you and you not responding to me.

[farside22]

This comment in 859 was mine:

I shouldn't have to keep chanting that you need to explain yourself over and over again. You know I want a response and yes I can change my mind but only if the player I'm pushing actually engages in the game.
So why are you being stubborn about it?
Why the need to wait to respond to the contractions?

[farside22]

Most players are voting BM. If you think that player is town why are you not pushing there?

The entire game is voting Me/Clidd, except:

Me
Clidd
geraintm

I could push almost literally anyone and it would be someone on me or clidd

I didn't really look at the vote count when I said that obvious. I also ask the mod to hold the day till clidd is replaced.
So I know you think NM is scum (he is pretty much just always one liners and threats of hammering) so I don't know why you see him scum above others. Mala yes I saw her actions being under the radar and as I said GC's game play is no where near as inquistive as his past games. Plus his scum reads make no sense.
With Votato I have a soft spot as his reads in a large mini were pretty bad and he worked with scum that game. I give him a bit of leeway till something comes off like it did in Animal Upick. I think bob is town and SG as well.
Still not sure about NS, he has been pretty low under the radar about his thoughts as well.

VOTE: Green Crayon

Still grumbling at you for ignoring me.

[farside22]

Why the need to wait to respond to the contractions?

When the game gets boring I start skipping stuff and only responding to what I see. That's what happened.

Because, despite you claiming my BM/Clidd vote is lazy and farside saying it's a bad push, I'm an OG believer in a BM vote. I'm happy to vote farside tomorrow, especially if BM/Clidd is scum.

Why not vote farside now?

You think your BM case is more convincing than reading farside's posts right now? Is it just because clidd is closer to the votes needed to lynch?

You realize there is no case on me right?
Your pushing votes that is based on me voting you and you not responding to me.

The case on you is that your push is bad and I don't have wiggleroom to try to find reasonable scum blending in with unreasonable scum/town

I'm just the most vocal about it. I don't stop till I get a response. That's just my way.

[farside22]

Still not sure about NS, he has been pretty low under the radar about his thoughts as well.

I’ve been vla for most of the day and I dare say pretty up front when I’m not

I wish mala was here for a second opinion on you

Your reads basically just follow whomever for example.
Below

Maybe I could go for farside with my double vote.

A scum read out of the blue. Just because???

[farside22]

I don’t really get the farside scumread either because I’ve been agreeing with every one of her posts

But no seriously I think her mala read makes decent sense especially given the info available thus far

Pedit-

Eh. Seemed over the top to me, but as I said I’m still getting reacquainted and it’s why I’m not pushing it besides my first comment and your questions.

I’m alive

Mala who’s scum

That second questions open to DP and farside too before I effort and read those wall posts from bob and bot

I’m giving mala space bc I’m nice and also a wee bit drunk

There’s more than one way to skin a huma- a ca- an animal

Miltabk I don’t remember you being this cryptic

Farside I’m honestly not engaged we went to hang with my work friends in the city and have been drinking since 2p and I haven’t sufficiently efforts but I wanna feel Involved

Hi friend I will vote when I am sober enough to Lynch some ecumfucks bc idk if you’ve tried but it’s hard to figure out ulterior motives while drunk but I’m good for it I promise or farside mala and dp will Lynch tf out of me

That's cool. Man the guide lines and the social standards are going to be a pain in the ass for a few months. I haven't even been called to come back to work and my place has been open a month now. They had some people come back so far, but not all.

When you go back be very careful with the table cleaning water the CDC recommends weve lost multiple uniforms so far to it! Otherwise its not really too difficult you just have to keep the tables separate and the whole mask thing.

Yeah, I'm glad there are a few people here I've played with so my day1ness wont be too much of a problem

???

[Declaration:]

Townlean on the sentinent green crayons.

Why?

Hm. I really did just like HK 137. But I want to see how that progresses

2nded

Bob reads well so far. It's still early but nothing jumps out as bad. I think HK is just proding people. I find one question a bit non-sense so far but to each there own.

Is it bad I see their back and forth as tvt

I have more town pings than scum pings. {HK, bob}

Maybe you are town

I'll catch up later, but for now:

VOTE: HK 50 - biggest wagon and he appears to have a horrible post restriction and needs to be put out of his misery.

[Definition:]

Efficiency: the ratio of the useful work performed by a machine or in a process to the total energy expended or heat taken in.

Known antonyms: Master Battle Mage

I have no read off this but I feel like yall need to read it again because its hilarious

VOTE: Battle Mage

Not a bad vote. Someone's living up to their name.

Itd be a lot nicer if hed give reasons for his votes

bob's posts look like scum trying to effort. (shrug)

I can kinda see it but I think it just sounded town?

[Rebuttal:]

Space to do what exactly? You asked a similar question to Masters Doctorpepper and Farside right afterwards which indicated to my sensors it was directed towards townish people in your perspective. Or is this wrong?

[Accusation:]

During the Farside vs Malakitten interaction, you simultaneously supported farside read while also pleading the case that somebody not knowing the reference is NAI. I would have no issue with this had you committed to something like: "Master Farside push was good for the info at the time, but ultimately I find the points raised to be NAI".

In short, I see you as someone who is fencesitting. Your actions seemed planned to respond to whatever the threads focus was at the time. When master Malakitten was being pushed, you voiced suspicion in post 70 and 74 fueling it. When the pressure waned and was redirected to Dunnstral/farside, you casually begin to treat master malakitten as town tonally.

Just circling back in case you missed my reply- its the people im used to. I agreed with her comment but not that it made her scum- my scumread was from malas reaction to the push, which iirc someone said is prob just town frustration at being pushed over stupid shit which made a lot of stuff. I get it seems fencesitty but until Ive got scum in my sights i sit back and chitchat with my usual suspects to help me get my footing

OK, I'm halfway through the pages. Making progress!

Would like to know how many scum are typically in a 13 player game though? 2? 3? Or 4? I am guessing 3, but not sure.

I am assuming 3

Id just like everyone to note this was a 7 min reply which means hes actively reading the thread just doing nothing

VOTE: Geraintm

Absolutely nothing in their ISO thus far points to scumhunting, and I do not like that. Especially paired together with their commitment to stalling that they admitted to in 108 by saying "you all do you, i'm going to wait until things become more clear."

That does not settle right with me at all.

goodvotes

this dude is town

I have nothing at the moment. day 1 people talk but it doesn't mean anything. votes are the important thing and there just haven't been many so far. I'm very much the type of person who looks at people's voting patterns and trying to either spot inconsistencies or really, really bad logic used to justify them

when I say you all do you, it is just me saying I don't have the mental capacity to argue over perceived slights, misunderstandings or whatever

@mala- is this true or false

VOTE: Vot.

Mala, hold on. This slot is quite empty. Hasn't posted since day 1 irl. Why the vote here?

nah its prob a good vote

Votato is typically posting more by this point in the game. So i don't mind the vote from mala.

You're town too??? wow.

DP it doesnt look good for you 3/4 of us are already town you best town it up soon before the probabilities getcha

VOTE: Votato

Looks like an all green wagon there lets get this sucker moving

Mala
Bob
Robot
Farside
Stun

GC?

BM
DP
NM
Dunn

gera

votato

I’m townreading the whole wagon, who do you think is scum on it?

I dislike the above post even though I agree with everything farside says

You know who said that farside?

Me

When he was very clearly actively reading the thread and replied 7 min after a question but hasn’t done anything

But I’m not giving reasons right

I feel like my read on NS should change......I know that sounds odd, but i just finished a game where a player says all the things that sound right but still that weird ringing sound is in the back of your head saying. NO DON'T BUY IT!!

I’m town as fuck farside

I’m sorry that’s the only thing I can say atm! I’ll weigh in soon

It’s been 24 hours since clidd said he’d give reads btw

I’m caught up

Stun gun is very wordy and I think it’s weird he asked the robot to be less though but I’m not sure it’s AI or not but man that guy can type some long posts

Mala why is my read progression re you town if you said yourself you expected to be tunneled all game

I’m flip flopping on voteto

I think mala town
Far town
Stun town
Gc town
Robot town

I’m nulltown reading bm?
Idk about dp

Still not sure about NS, he has been pretty low under the radar about his thoughts as well.

I’ve been vla for most of the day and I dare say pretty up front when I’m not

I wish mala was here for a second opinion on you

Maybe I could go for farside with my double vote.

Lots of quote walls but its just to show the surface level scum hunting that ns is doing. He just makes minor comments, floats into the background and until the moment called me town. Agrees with a player without really adding anything new. He would also make a great association with gc scum reading back. (If gc is scum) with the tvt thing.

[farside22]

[Observation:]

How curious. It seems others had pings about master malakitten, yet did not share the same rationale my process had. In any case, at least it served to move the game forward.

[Clarification:]

I had no issues with the votato/Hk50 scum point (Although I firmly disagree with such a coupling and the reasons behind it. Besides, be paired with an organic? My vocalizer cannot begin to describe the level of disgust). My issue was simply the volume of master malakitten posts regarding to the matter being greater than how it was being progressed. In other words, it felt malakitten was overdoing the analysis to appear to be scumhunting despite not changing her stance on the matter since the first post made on it.

Now taking a deeper look into HT50.

If one of Vot or HT50 flips scum I’m ok with them being partnered. This is HT50’s first game. I obv get it that’s it’s an alt account. But the whole knowledge felt off to me

[Query:]

Addtionally, what was the extent of this "deeper look"? What methodology was used?

Your total topic. I don’t know who your main is and honestly I’m not going to waste the little time I have to try to sort it out. You’re playing an old gimmick and that’s fine with me. As long as it doesn’t interfere with trying to sort you I’m ok with that.

[Answer:]

My true master and I operate on a vast difference in approaches. Nonetheless, we both agree on the ruthless, efficent approach to playing mafia.

Hm. I really did just like HK 137. But I want to see how that progresses

That post has a bad gut feeling, but will wait for redemption

[Interrogation:

Master Malakitten, you have made several posts showing a stance without explaining it nor fully committing to it. Please explain your pings. Has the interaction with master bob3141 reached a finite conclusion read wise considering you town ping both of us?

Spoiler: Master notscience posts about master malakitten

I don’t think she’s scummy for that I don’t like her 64 but I’m still reacquainting myself

I also just realized I told her I’m not voting her yet but my rvs is still on her and feel dumb

I don’t really get the farside scumread either because I’ve been agreeing with every one of her posts

But no seriously I think her mala read makes decent sense especially given the info available thus far

Pedit-

Eh. Seemed over the top to me, but as I said I’m still getting reacquainted and it’s why I’m not pushing it besides my first comment and your questions.

For the record I didn’t get the reference until votato explained it but as I said in my iso it’s a billion dollar franchise it’s not a surprise some people know it

I don’t think she’s scummy for that I don’t like her 64 but I’m still reacquainting myself

I also just realized I told her I’m not voting her yet but my rvs is still on her and feel dumb

Ns, this feels so noncommittal and I'm not a fan right now

You’re a towel

I didn’t think wagoning mala would be fruitful at this point in time and wanted to let it develop

I’m alive

Mala who’s scum

[Query:]

Master Notscience what is your actual views on Master Malakitten?

In posts 70 and 74, you agree that there are posts that ping you as potentially mafia esk. However, come post 145 it seems this is no longer your current thought process.

I’m giving mala space bc I’m nice and also a wee bit drunk

There’s more than one way to skin a huma- a ca- an animal

[Rebuttal:]

Space to do what exactly? You asked a similar question to Masters Doctorpepper and Farside right afterwards which indicated to my sensors it was directed towards townish people in your perspective. Or is this wrong?

[Accusation:]

During the Farside vs Malakitten interaction, you simultaneously supported farside read while also pleading the case that somebody not knowing the reference is NAI. I would have no issue with this had you committed to something like: "Master Farside push was good for the info at the time, but ultimately I find the points raised to be NAI".

In short, I see you as someone who is fencesitting. Your actions seemed planned to respond to whatever the threads focus was at the time. When master Malakitten was being pushed, you voiced suspicion in post 70 and 74 fueling it. When the pressure waned and was redirected to Dunnstral/farside, you casually begin to treat master malakitten as town tonally.

[Unrelated Answer:]

Indeed, there are many ways to deleather an organic being. The easiest of course is to set the still breathing body over a roasting fire to soften the skin. A quick few dashes with a vibrosword tends to be all you need afterwards master. Shall I give more methodology?

[Statement:]

The lack of actual discussion is making my circuits moderately irritated. There cannot be ruthless slaughter like this.

VOTE: Dunnstral

Master Battle Mage feel free to explain the basis of your read.

I agree with your vote but your line of questioning was not leading to this, what do you really feel about Dunn?

[Confession:]

I'll fully admit my vote on master Dunnstral is more me agreeing with what's been said about him. Call it sheeping if you will. I want to see commitment either from him defending the master malakitten or moving from it rather than the statements he has given so far.

I am currently a few pages into reading, but would like to make a request. @HK50, I love your posting style -- so nothing against it -- but could you possibly use less sophisticated words to get your points across? I can understand what you are saying if I really spend time looking into your every post, but it is very hard to read some of your posts on the surface.

Another reason I ask this is because using a ton of more complicated words makes it more difficult than normal to read your intentions. This posting style could be extremely effective for scum to hide behind, because it is an easy way for them to blanket their intentions, because a lot more effort is needed than typical to truly assess their motives.

This. This is a good town post. Encapsulates my feelings. Great entrance and I think you're town

In fact, I think HK not breaking his posting pattern might actually make me question him

[Query:]

Explain the bold.

So we moved from video game debate to vernacular debate

don't get medical with me!

Anyone got a meta read on BM? Is he more jokey and not serious as town or scum?

Answer:]

His jokey nature is shared among his town and scum play. The emoji usage etc. There are some differences that can be used, although they come latter. To summarize them: you have to look at overall motivation in his posts in accordance to the gamestate.

[Ineffectual mentality:]

Currently my circuits are quite encumbered by vast amounts of backproccesses.

In the mundane sense, I'm the equivalent of being "very tired and stressed" for an organic.

As such, I shall not come to correct you all on who scum is just yet no no no. I am going to enjoy a nice long diagnostic in my quarters. However, to avoid being struck with the very overdue prod, know this: master Dunnstral still looks scummy. This is not the prod dodge you are looking for.

[Statement:]

I also wasnt aware you could actually give another player control of your vote. Interesting.

(Please be aware that there are approximately 13 pages since I last picked up, so in the interest of not clogging the thread I'm not talking about every post. If there is something I missed that you are dying to know my take on, let me know. Otherwise I'm just getting what I feel is important)

Spoiler: stungun votato interaction

Lol, that's funny enough to get me to move off your wagon

VOTE: Votato

probably town? Dunno, there are mostly just questions coming from hk and not much analysis

Not a bad point. Would like to see HK produce an analysis when they get the chance.

probably town? Dunno, there are mostly just questions coming from hk and not much analysis

I will say, I don't really like that your vote is on HK if you think he is probably town... we are past RVS.

@Votato, who do you think is most likely scum between geraintm, Dunnstral and Green Crayons?

If you give me a good enough response to this, I may be moved to vote elsewhere, so I really want to see some serious thought applied here.

@Votato:

are you apathetic as scum?

generally im very active as scum. in my completed games so far that's very much been my meta. will have an update soon that we can discuss. but as scum i'm always engaged on day 1 at least. as town im frequently bored day 1 and dont really pick up my posting much until later in the game. day 1 sucks, but it mostly sucks when you're town.

i do much prefer playing as scum.

@stungun, im not sure that id say any of them are scum. none of them have really posted enough for me to get reads on them. my gut would say geraintm? i liked the case someone made there. wasnt that you?

i can point to a few towngames where i was very lurky day 1 until pressure mounted on me. day 1 pressure on me is good to get me active and posting, but it isnt so good for my reads. when im allowed to just lurk and observe for a bit, my reads tend to be very good. i will also say that im still figuring out how to approach day 1, and so my playstyle probably alters quite a bit from game to game.

notsci is an interesting slot FMPOV. notsci may have a slight bias towards scumreading me. especially when i lurk. so that made me initially townread notsci's push on me. but im also somewhat convinced by people attacking notsci for the lazy vote. but the lazy vote could again be explained by a bias towards scumreading me.

Votato, I am going to sort through your meta to see if I confirm what you said about your activity levels.

In the meantime, would you be willing to vote geriantm?

Reason I ask is I am willing to go there, but it seems like there is a lack of push, and that makes it difficult to get anything going there.

uh id have to take a quick look back over the ISO and your(?) case, but i think so. you want me to do that?

my scumgames are animals upick (probably not that helpful since i was caught super early and hardbussed by the whole scumteam), and micro 938: butterfly mafia.
newbie 2006 is a game where i lurked and basically got killed for it as town. there are others but id have to go look to see which ones they are.

Yeah, at the moment that is the only wagon which I would really like switching to.

You were town in this game and were very active at the start (22 posts on the first day and then a big analysis immediately starting the next day), which contradicts the activity argument.
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p11763957

And so did the newbie 2006 game you cited, you had 12 posts on the first day the game was available.
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p11902283

This game, you had 3 posts and then disappeared for about 3 days, until a wagon formed on you.

While you may be fairly active in some of your scum games, this evidence does not suggest that in your town games you are always lurking at the start. Thus, I don't think this initial analysis into your gameplay is very alignment-indicative, as it seems you are breaking pattern regardless of alignment.

OK, when you return, you know who I would like you to look into. In the meantime, I have no reason to move off of you because I honestly cannot verify from your meta that you are telling the truth.

Just noting that the vote on Votato is now L-2.

Be careful adding another vote, because votato could self-hammer, or someone else could before we get the chance to hear back from Votato, ending the day phase sooner than preferable.

so i painstakingly went over geraintm's entire ISO. there isnt even a an attempt to pretend to scumhunt. that slot definitely deserves pressure, but he is so brazen that I'm guessing town over scum actually. maybe. i dunno, its worth voting there and forcing some effort out of the slot.

The dunn thing does actually seem like a plausible scumslip.

*votato pushes BM a bit*

GC has a fair point, geraintm is still voting not science based off RVS reasoning, which is just a very lazy vote park that is not seemingly going to get us anywhere this day phase. I'm not real fond of it.

If he's town, it's as though he is playing a scared game, and I also don't really like that. If he is scum, it makes sense; he wants to stay in the background.

@GC: if you had to guess, what do you think geraintm's alignment is?

Does anyone have experience with scum Dunnstral? I have only played with town Dunnstral as scum to my recollection (2 times).

I know that as town he is not the hardest player to sort, but he still is a little bit tricky. He is easier to sort than nm for sure.

Also, he might get easier by the day, but he also might not. So I am not totally against a lynch there, but would just prefer to keep him in for two reasons. One is he is one of the few players I have experience with, so I might be able to read him better as the game progresses. And two, I do not really find what he has done so far to be super scummy, and if anything the push against him gives me a slight intuition he might be town. I could be wrong there, and I would like to see him post more, but I am not super suspicious.

I do think it is very likely, however, that if one Votato/Dunn is scum, the other is not, and should be assumed to be town. I just don't see them as connected, as votato has made very little mention of Dunn in his posts and Dunn throwing votato out of the blue as a scum partner to someone... wouldn't seem like the smartest plan if they were scum partners? I mean, that's a little bold, drawing that much attention to you

and

your partner?

Stungun's interaction and handling of Votato was the first thing that popped out to me, mainly due to the formers actions. There are points of the interaction where I doubt the genuineness of the votato push by them was for pressure, and rather, was a set up to further a push on germ.

First is post 325, which introduces the lead in read progression on genermitn. I dont mind this in isolation or from part of votato's post 324 since votato was a bit more vocal about the slot. I could see Town!stungun attempting to do a reaction test to see if votato hard commits to scum reading germ. As a form of survival for example. However, stungun already knew that votato liked their case on germ from the same post (324) meaning such an test would already be flawed. For votato to commit to the scum read, all he would have to do is analyze what part of the case he agrees or disagrees with. Its 326 and 328 though that begins to draw the line between a bad test and stungun having different motives.

In order to understand why 326 and 328 are problematic, we need to look at votato's 350. I know, it may seem werid to prove the past with the future, but in this case the later actions of stungun helps highlight the importance of the eariler ones. 350 is votato's analysis of germ. Which even he admits to farside is wishy washy. What's intresting about this post is that stungun post after this doesn't remotely try to analyze this and instead voices support for germ. Remember, stungun wanted to see critical thinking from votato and more importantly just had a reason to doubt votato further over concluding that the meta defense was NAI. I would conclude if somebody i accused of needing to make more logical content made a washy analysis and went on to self admit it, that they may infact warrant further analysis. That wasn't the case. Coupled with posts like 326 and 328, I dont feel stungun really cared about reading votato and wanted to simply push germ, giving the illusion they cared about sorting votato while trying to convince him to hop on. Posts after the meta case, 339, also support this.

Further, I can see why scum!stungun would want to have votato on that wagon: scapegoat. Assuming scum!stungun and town!germ., votato would of look horrendous if the mislynch went through having hoped on while being pressured. This buys mafia another free lynch potentially without much effort. Depending on if someone like Dunn

All in all, I dont believe the votato interaction by stungun was done for what was claimed. I wouldnt be surprised if Dunnstral is scum and stungun picked to pressure other LHFesk players in a bid to protect Dunnstral.

(Catching up)

I'm still not particularly into this game mentally. Since there is a case on me and some confusion about the stun gun post, I'll respond for the sake of trying to keep both trains going.

As for the dunn point that got cut off from the stungun post I made eariler: my point was the push on germ could be to divert attention from the dunn wagon which lines up with stun guns stance on the wagon. Stungun has been offering counter resistances to that wagon while voting occasionally there for noncommittal reasons like "pressure" when i skimmed forward through there ISO.

Anyways now to the case:

Next, a very short case on association from HK50's posts. HK has really not talked at all about either of Votato or BM in a scummy sense, but also doesn't really appear to be truly scumhunting in general. So that is something to keep an eye on.

Further, HK is on the counterwagon of Dunnstral, which could be seen as protecting a potential partner in Clidd/BM.

HK is only voting Dunnstral, per his 307 because "he agrees with what has been said about him." This is a lazy sheep vote. Does that seem like genuine scumhunting to you? Especially since he's voteparked there?

Spoiler: Scumteam Case from HK's posts

HK interestingly utilized my interactions with Votato against me to support cases that are a bit of a stretch about me being scum, in his 607.

Further, HK also conveniently flipped on his early town indication on me he expressed in 304, saying that he "felt better about me" because he thinks I used "bad townie logic." But then, suddenly in 607, in my interactions with Votato, he frames it so that he can make me look scummier AND concludes nothing negative on Votato, perhaps making his partner look better?

First off I have scum/town hunted. Example A: my handling of non science and malakitten. Example B (strong example): my progression on bob and the logic behind it. Example C: the doctor pepper pressure over my posting style.

Those are the only points that come to my head. Saying I havent scum hunted at all this game because I've been demoralized and havent been posting as much recently is a misrepstation in every way.

Yes I'm on the counterwagon. Yes I am voting dunn because I agree with what others have said. No, I havent quite saw anything to sway my opinion. This point is mostly preflip associations so there isnt much to debate here.

As for the spoilers info:

Point one: if we are playing the association game, how could it not be also an example of a HK 50/Germ. Team as well? You seemed to pull this just to loosely support the association point rather than actually having it be a fleshed out point.

Point two: What prevents me from switching my reads on any player? I didnt "conveniently flipped my read", I changed stances because I saw something scummy from you.

You also horribly misrepresented my town indications about you in 304. It wasnt about your bad logic that I town read you. It was the fact you were pressuring multiple slots naturally and forcing info out. The "bad logic" was referring to your fallacies in handling my posts, and was more expressing what I didnt like that what I did.

Spoiler: fallacy explanation

In both the posts you made about me early into day 1, you concluded with a statement that can be summed up as: "I as scum do X as well, therefore hk 50 could be scum"

This is two types of fallacies. First is a strawman fallacy as I can't refute your scum meta since it's your meta. This introduces no real counter play from a defense side since what am I going to disagree with? That you dont do X as scum?

The second one is the bigger issue though: Fallacy of Credibility. Your scum meta is simply not the textbook definition of how everyone plays scum. There are scum that goes balls to the wall and do ridiculous things because they can. To say I'm going to operate like your scum meta because its "the norm" displays a level of credibility to your arguement that simply isnt true.

Furthermore, if town!me sees it as your interaction being done to manipulate votato into voting germ., WHY would I say something negative about him? You imply that I should be saying that votato is scummy there and because I'm not it's a sign of association. That doesn't make sense with the context of 607.

If anyone can link the post link to the main BM case that would be swell because I'm sure as hell too lazy to dig for it.

I can be convinced of scum BM despite disagreeing with the votato pairing. I want Dunnstral though preferably because it gives more information. Just off the top of my head:

If scum:
-Depending on the formation of the BM wagon, this could point to town BM if it was heavily pushed for without much countermeasure (aka mafia allowed it to happen).
-Stunguns stance on Dunnstral throughout day 1
-Farside, GC, and bob are pretty surely town
-votato is town due to the opening post by Dunnstral
-malakitten is prob town too although I need to revisit that.

If town:
-Farside/bob scum equity goes up (this is my bargaining chip. You want to see my little secret? Gotta keep my robot ass alive and flip Dunnstral).
-im wrong about stungun most likely and they are town
-BM/Clidd equity for scum goes up.
-Im sure there are points that help sort conscience, malakitten, and GC.

I confess it doesnt help solve the militank nor Germy germ, but I also confess I stop paying attention to such weaklings

If anyone can link the post link to the main BM case that would be swell because I'm sure as hell too lazy to dig for it.

I can be convinced of scum BM despite disagreeing with the votato pairing. I want Dunnstral though preferably because it gives more information. Just off the top of my head:

If scum:

-Depending on the formation of the BM wagon, this could point to town BM if it was heavily pushed for without much countermeasure (aka mafia allowed it to happen).

-Stunguns stance on Dunnstral throughout day 1
-Farside, GC, and bob are pretty surely town

-votato is town due to the opening post by Dunnstral

-malakitten is prob town too although I need to revisit that.

If town:

-Farside/bob scum equity goes up (this is my bargaining chip. You want to see my little secret? Gotta keep my robot ass alive and flip Dunnstral).

-im wrong about stungun most likely and they are town

-BM/Clidd equity for scum goes up.

-Im sure there are points that help sort conscience, malakitten, and GC.

I confess it doesnt help solve the militank nor Germy germ, but I also confess I stop paying attention to such weaklings

There has been less resistance to a Dunnstral wagon than a BM wagon, which still has never reached a majority this day phase, unlike Dunn which has been the primary majority.

Obviously, since the majority has been 4 votes lately, scum isn't really helping us too much with these votes, or I'm sure we would be closer to a lynch.

What on earth makes Votato town based on a post by Dunnstral? What kind of crazy logic? He should be town based off his own posts from your angle, but not someone else's. That is really weird.

Look, you're also willing to flip on my townreads provided that Dunn flips town. I do not like that, as I am townreading both Bob and farside. I see you and think you are lining up lynches here, since you think they are both town currently.

You want an extra day with BM/Clidd & Votato, don't you?

Just my gut read right now.

@Farside

: I have to say no to moving to Dunnstral, unless he's a majority and we are threatened with a no lynch situation or Dunnstral.

I hope you will do the same thing provided it's Clidd or no lynch, because a lynch obviously favors us more than a no lynch.

Point one: less resistance on Dunnstral? You mean the wagon that's been here since page 5 that keeps having other bandwagon raise up to try and meet it? That's the textbook example of resistance lol.

Again, obviously like I've been saying, if mafia isnt proactively trying to help town move their votes, then they are ok with the status quo. Understand from my POV what you have been doing in response to Dunnstral's lynch.

Re-votato: strange logic? Yes I highly doubt that on the condition I explained (dunnstral flips scum), that votato is also scum due to the first two pages of this game. I find it quite hard to come to any other conclusion based off the HK/votato comment Dunnstral pushed. That doesnt come from SvS.

This is perfectly within my angle of if Dunnstral flips scum. Please read "How to shade a robot 101" for better attempts at manipulating my posts.

Re farside/bob; my townreads are not yours and vice versa. Nothing makes me have to follow your lead chief. I picked up on some associative pings back the two which are Invalidated by a scum!dunnstral flip. If you want to paint it that its scum!me setting up a mislynch, knock your socks off kiddo. I suggest titanium white.

Yes I totally want an extra day with my two afk scummates. Their absence has just tore me up inside.

(Was that good enough acting to support more shading on me or nah?)

So i went through hk iso and i do wonder about his vote on dunn. The interaction stuff about sg/vot i can understand where he's going although i disagreed with it.
His push on ns is the strongest stuff i see.
I think basing a read off those pushing a wagon looks a bit opportunistic and lazy.
Th main this that doesn't make me hard scum read gc is his push on ns and he could have continued with the fake pr and no one would think otherwise.
I think ns surface level reads are far worse th hk.

[farside22]

the simple solution is some combination of clidd/dunn/gerain/farside. although farside is chainsaw attacking clidd by attacking you for defending clidd, so maybe farside and clidd cant be scum together.

Where did i chainsaw attack? Im calling ns scum for surface level play and currently not making a case but trying to push a scum read on me when he was calling me town most of the game. He only switch to the scum read when i called him out.

[farside22]

ill be around more after work to figure this out. I'm ok with going for a farside wagon.
i dont understand any of what farside just said ^

What are you confused about?

[farside22]

I will be fucking pissed if no one produces a case on why im scum.

[farside22]

the simple solution is some combination of clidd/dunn/gerain/farside. although farside is chainsaw attacking clidd by attacking you for defending clidd, so maybe farside and clidd cant be scum together.

Where did i chainsaw attack? Im calling ns scum for surface level play and currently not making a case but trying to push a scum read on me when he was calling me town most of the game. He only switch to the scum read when i called him out.

yes but if you are scum and clidd is scum, then you wouldnt attack NS while NS is defending clidd. the timing of your attack on NS means you arent scum with clidd (probably)

You don't know clidd allignment? I'm attacking ns for good reasons that have nothing to do with clidd.

[farside22]

ill be around more after work to figure this out. I'm ok with going for a farside wagon.
i dont understand any of what farside just said ^

What are you confused about?

the words you used. there were some typos and i just couldnt follow your logic at all. also could people use spoilers if theyre gonna quote the entire thread?

My experience shows no one clicks on the spoiler to read quote walls.

Well the tldr version of my post in regards to hk is
1. I don't know why he scum reads dunn.
2. I liked his push on ns
3. I think scum would continue with a post restriction and not make long post as he did.
4. Although I disagreed with what he views between you and sg I can understand the thought process.

[farside22]

His push where he thought I was townreading all the people I’m used to playing with?

How is that scummy? Why is that not a valid point?
Still waiting for a case from you that magically hasn't happened.

ill be around more after work to figure this out. I'm ok with going for a farside wagon.
i dont understand any of what farside just said ^

What are you confused about?

the words you used. there were some typos and i just couldnt follow your logic at all. also could people use spoilers if theyre gonna quote the entire thread?

My experience shows no one clicks on the spoiler to read quote walls.

Well the tldr version of my post in regards to hk is
1. I don't know why he scum reads dunn.
2. I liked his push on ns
3. I think scum would continue with a post restriction and not make long post as he did.
4. Although I disagreed with what he views between you and sg I can understand the thought process.

im not gonna re-read his entire iso just because you quote it either. if you arent doing any commentary on what you're quoting im gonna scroll past it either way. its easier to do if you spoilerize it though.

So making a case is pointless?
You make me sad.

Btw, none of what Dunn has posted is making me more comfortable, especially since I'm told I'm coasting on a vote for him despite me disliking his content early on and, idk, me being on

V/LA

Meh I see a few things he said is what I felt. Still don't like his lack of explanation about mala but it's not that mala has done anything that rings town so it's a wash.

Switch to GC with me hell vote NS. I made a great post of his surface level reads without pushing anything and he's turned it into a magical scum read on me.

[farside22]

unofficial vote count

clidd (5): Not_Mafia, Green Crayons, Malakittens, bob3141, votato
Dunnstral (2): DoctorPepper, HK 50
HK50 (2): Dunnstral, stungun0404
Green Crayons (2) clidd, farside22
notscience (1): geraintm
Not voting (1): notscience

@NS: I cannot see how you can possibly think all of the current wagons are town. Like, it really is highly unlikely, which is making me feel weird about you. Because that seems like it is going from more of a possibility angle than a probability angle. Rather, it is probable that at least one of the 5 current wagons is scum.

Who is your supposed scum team right now, then? Especially since according to your 292, which granted was awhile ago, but you townread me, hk, mala, farside, and bob, while scumreading votato the most (who you are suddenly now trusting to guide your vote). Why such a big flip with votato from biggest scumread to player you trust the most? Not gonna lie, that is striking me as strange.

In 678, you had the same townreads of Mala, me, HK and Farside, but you took out Bob and replaced him with GC.

You also nulltowned BM

Notably, nowhere is Votato found there. And yet you are relying on him to help you figure out the game according to your 898?

I don't get the flips with you. You were townreading farside. Now you want to lynch farside according to your 904, which asks "lynch farside with me?" but notably you are also not voting farside.

Which begs the question for me, are you genuinely scumhunting, similarly to HK? I'm thinking I am going to have to move you down in my reads, because all this is just odd from my perspective.

Also, you have a double voter power and you are not even voting one person? Why not?

Here is just an add on thought process. I find GC more scummy then BM given that back and forth. I don't see that TVT at all and GC looks scummy for the over reaction. This is why I'm staying off that wagon. After a nice chat with Dunn I am more null on him.
NS just flipped his reads because I caught him as scum and since 2 players stated a scum read with no reason he's latching on to it while buddying votato.


EBWOP: No that is not typical of NS. He works more logically and talks things out more.

[farside22]

NS town game
Lots of analysis but not a lot of voting.
Everything else is older or still ongoing.

[farside22]

whats your alignment farside?

town.

Do you think I would respond any differently?

[farside22]

whats your alignment farside?

town.

Do you think I would respond any differently?

no i fully expect you to respond with town regardless of your alignment. because youre BORING!!!
could you elaborate a little more on your alignment for me?

Bitchy, tunneling, all arrogant and bullying town.

[farside22]

whats your alignment farside?

town.

Do you think I would respond any differently?

no i fully expect you to respond with town regardless of your alignment. because youre BORING!!!
could you elaborate a little more on your alignment for me?

Bitchy, tunneling, all arrogant and bullying town.

see thats what i expect, but i havent actually gotten that much of it. and i really thought that town!you would be more annoyed with my dumb questions. yet here we are, and you're joking about how serious and unfunny you are....

If you can read my iso and not see that I'm being all of that without your stupid question, then you need to find a different hobby.

[farside22]

You know I was town that game and

A) replaced in n1 after an lolhammer
B) the person leading the town was scum and I got super scum vibes for it
C) was trying to assert control over town something I don’t do often
D) had no one I knew until klick came in to back me up
E) day 2 when I tried to assert control ended in 6 hours

So a pretty different situation entirey from this one

You going to explain your scum reads?

[farside22]

Nah it’s more fun to keep Deflecting

When I get time sure! But I’m busy atm

Doesn't look like your too busy throwing shade while asking others to vote.

[farside22]

Meta's good for broad stroke impressions like activity. When used to compare against RECENT and LOTS of games.

Notions that comparing "how many questions" and "bitchiness" between games is fruitful is a waste a time. Just finding comparable games is difficult--each game is different with different stages of gameplay, different personalities, different pushes, etc. People play differently in different circumstances. So just finding a comparable game isn't just "oh he was town here," it needs to be sufficiently similar gaming circumstances. AND THEN you need a sample size greater than fucking one. Jesus.

Not only that, but assuming you get a bunch of recent actually comparable games, and you can point out that there are real play differences, the question then is is that different AI?


Rather than doing all of that, you've compared me to a game where I've replaced in (just lol) and farside has compared my "bitchiness" to a game where nobody who I read as town pushed a shit case on me.




TLDR: meta is trash, because everyone is using it poorly.

Still find your reaction to BM to be over the top and unnecessary. You were happy with BM's response but keep your vote on him.
How that can be read as town to anyone is a mystery to me.

[farside22]

GC references:

Spoiler:

I'd find it strange if BM flips scum.

Let's flip BM.

I think BM is more likely to flip scum than town. His explanation for reading scum's NAI meta analysis as AI is plausible on its face. In context though, that plausibility doesn't undermine the other suspicions that point to scum:

-He took forever to provide his AI justification, although he supposedly thought of it ages ago

- He took plenty of time to discredit my suspicions as strawmanning without actually just engaging with my suspicions and providing his AI justification, suggesting delay to come up with a plausible reason after the fact

- He's saying BOTH (1) he had other suspicions for voting votato so we shouldn't suspect him for this thin reasoning (supposed other reasons that he never voiced, so how are we supposed to know that?) AND (2) it was an early vote so we're expecting too much from him in terms of reasoning, which are contradictory defenses that defeat each other. EITHER we should give him a pass because he had other, stronger reasons to vote votato OR we should give him a pass because it was early D1 so he didn't need to have strong reasons to vote votato. It looks like scum slinging whatever defenses he can.

That’s not a half bad explanation.

It doesn’t erase the fact that it took you this long to actually voice it.

A. That wasn't the only reason for my vote - just one that GC has tried to strawman and attack me for.

Also this is a lie.

You didn’t give any other reason for your votato vote.

BM references:

Spoiler:

Votato votes are lazy. I bet one of y'all are scum.

Challenge accepted!

VOTE: Votato

I like the meta analysis by stungun, clearly nobody is getting behind Green Crayons, and I think I'm townleaning Dunnstral. And seriously, voting BM on Day 1? This dude has run out of ideas...

^^^ I don't see how that makes farside town. It does strengthen Dunn being scum.

I felt the way I felt. I can't help my pings on players.

There should be more votes on Dunn too with your follow up spoilers post.


@NS: Who else are you suspicious of? I see a lot of filler coming from you but nothing stating a scum read. Or even following of anyone.
BM: Hey BM, how are you? Taking some lumps I see......would you mind voting Dunn and we can chat later about if you are scum or town and about play style later?
Thanks!!

Yep yep, usual fare!

I'm not so keen on Dunn
Maybe he's just not scum
Annie did tell me so
and scum is votato



I'm worried about this "play style" chat...are you gonna bash me too?

jesus… do I even have to respond to Green Crayons 'case' on me?

It's been repeated ad nauseum (because GC apparently thinks he can get away with plugging something as weak as this instead of actually scumhunting).

His vote on votato looks made up.

First, his vote:

Votato votes are lazy. I bet one of y'all are scum.

Challenge accepted!

VOTE: Votato

I like the meta analysis by stungun

, clearly nobody is getting behind Green Crayons, and I think I'm townleaning Dunnstral. And seriously, voting BM on Day 1? This dude has run out of ideas...

He reads votato as scum only because of your meta analysis. But your meta analysis specifically said it was a wash on alignment, and so wasn't AI:

The fact Stungun doesn't think it's AI, doesn't mean I don't think it's AI. I believe I said, as above, "I like the analysis", as opposed to "I agree with the analysis in it's entirety and share Stungun's resulting conclusion". I did in fact think it was AI, and voted for that reason.

I think if you were town you would have thought about this for more than 5 seconds, and tried asking me why I felt it was AI? Rather than just pretending I didn't, and am a complete imbecile (which incidentally would have been NAI anyway for me ).

Also took a weird stance on BM that his vote on Votato "looked made up" in 421, which does not exactly seem like the best reason to vote BM if you ask me. Also, I do not know if it is a natural town instinct to come to a conclusion that a vote "is made up", just seems like a forced scum conclusion, but maybe I am wrong there.

Maybe if you look harder, you'll see I've been suspecting Battle Mage for a while.

Maybe if you look *even harder*, you'll see why.

And lol @ my justification for voting BM apparently went completely over your head in your pursuit to vote me.

I think this is important, btw.

BM switched to votato. His only reason for suspecting votato as scum is because of stun's meta analysis of votato.

The problem is that stun's meta analysis--by stun's own explanation!--is that it doesn't show that votato is scum. It just shows that he is not town.

I've answered this above - clearly I thought the analysis of Stun was helpful, but didn't agree with the conclusion. And it doesn't seem like you've been suspecting me for a while at all - you voted for me because I voted for you right?
I'm pretty sure someone of your experience didn't actually buy your own case.

He seems mildly town.

Let’s focus on BM.

Who doesn’t have a legitimate scum read on votato—BM voted because of stun’s meta analysis that stun said was not AI—but BM voted votato anyway.

Red light scum alert.

Again!? Beating a dead horse here pal. I suppose you wouldn't know if my scumread was legitimate or not, because you haven't bothered to ask me or probe my explanation, you've just set up an implausible strawman.

Even if you were right, I'm not really clear why you think being an idiot would make me scum - inability to read is not something I normally consider AI in and of itself.

VOTE: GreenCrayons (in case I wasn't already)

See there is a lot missing with this strong scum read. It boils down to BM's vote on votato and that's the extent of the reason that holds that wagon so firmly.
BM said a few other things a post later about votato that GC didn't comment about.
Now because of replacement GC is holding onto a weak scum read and pushing no reason's for any other scum reads or analysts of anyone this game.
Which BM calls GC on in the spoiler post above. GC also says he finds the explanation fine but only holds his vote on bm for taking time to respond. Which is NAI.

[farside22]

You willing to hammer an unclaimed player? Honestly I'm surprised you haven't voted him by now.

[farside22]

Isn’t he literally the first vote on the wagon

God I swear I thought he was voting someone else.

[farside22]

malakittens is in brackets because notsci controls the vote?

yup

[farside22]

Porkens: You are the major wagon. Lots of people are being stubborn, so you may want to either extend the day or claim.

[farside22]

ill be around more after work to figure this out. I'm ok with going for a farside wagon.
i dont understand any of what farside just said ^

What are you confused about?

the words you used. there were some typos and i just couldnt follow your logic at all. also could people use spoilers if theyre gonna quote the entire thread?

My experience shows no one clicks on the spoiler to read quote walls.

Well the tldr version of my post in regards to hk is
1. I don't know why he scum reads dunn.
2. I liked his push on ns
3. I think scum would continue with a post restriction and not make long post as he did.
4. Although I disagreed with what he views between you and sg I can understand the thought process.

So do you on balance town read or scum read HK. As your tldr version doesn't really say what alignment you claim to think he is. Just first that you never really got why he was voting dun but what do you actually think of his read and the fact he has been on dun much of the day. Even if you don't entirely understand HK’s reasons behind his vote.

Then going onto how you liked his push on NS. Followed by his comments regarding Vota/shog. And his change in posting style.

But what do you think of his other actions. As keep seeing in his posts that he keeps pushing against the clidd wagon. As in 736 he pushes how he claims to think BM actions make no sense with a town dun. As he pushes that scum BM wouldn't cut off his chance to vote for his counter wagon. As it keeps giving me the feeling that he was trying to diffuse the BM wagon, while at the same time trying to push that dun wagon you have mentioned.

Even though in 731 He claims he could be convinced. But in 737 he is saying scum bm with town dun makes no sense. Even though he claims his scum equity goes up in 736 along with yours.

Now some of this could be due to him having trouble posting in his post restriction as I am having hard time making sense of his intentional robot posting.

I had him as a light town read early on. It stands that way with even him posting without the restriction.

I know you tend to ask questions, but where is your stand currently? You know I feel after awhile it just looks like busy work.

[farside22]

Read through. Still feeling good woth my vote on gc.

[farside22]

HK: Vote GC or at least explain why your vote is on Dunn still

[farside22]

Thank you Porkens for claiming!

A question to everyone then: if today's lynch is not Porkens, who else would you be willing to lynch this day phase?

Maybe then we can get a full perspective on who the best alternatives could be to a Porkens lynch. Because otherwise I don't see a lot of unity occurring among us if we start getting town indications from Porkens (which he still should try to give us, but in the meantime this is what we can ideally obtain).

For me, I would prefer HK if not Porkens, but also am open to lynching gera, or GC (GC I only say this because I am confident one of you or Porkens is scum, and therefore I am open to lynching either of you if it comes to that, but you are at the bottom of my list of 4 players right now as it stands).

Also, anybody feel free to raise objections to this if you think giving out this information might hurt town more than help us.

Gc/mala/ns/nm

Feeling scum in that group

[farside22]

There should be more talk about compromise lynches or players pushing their scum reads.

My scum reads with reasons:
Gc- over the top reaction. Looks to push anything as a scum tell just to argue without analyzing players.
Mala_ surface level reads that have added nothing to the game
Ns- gut pinging scum. Sudden switch in read with no reason. He isnt a troll type.

[farside22]

I’m pretty sure malas been about as available as I have this game

Is that really the four you wanna go with farside lol

Still see's nothing from you that says town so yes.

[farside22]

yeah but who pushed it initially, and where did it come from?

GC was the first one to push the idea when he had the quote that showed Dunn's thought process and how mala said the same thing.

I cant see the case on GC sadly at least according to what farside said.

I saw several other interactions not included in the spoilers I believe between Him and BM which makes sense progression wise and isnt as disingenuous as lead to believed. I also liked several of his points and especially the stance he took throughout page 43.

I will concede I can sorta see the pressing many angles yet not commiting to them points some argue, though I dont think it's done enough to point to only scum!GC

Did you read his scum/town list? You realize he had 3 players listed as scum and now he unvotes because of a VT claim after pages and pages of holding onto it without moving past to at least engage with other scum read.

yeah but who pushed it initially, and where did it come from?

farside I think was the first to push Dunnstral.

But I think the way she pushed it was towny quite frankly.

It's the ones with less apparent reasoning to follow in HK/maybe someone else that should look scummy simply for providing no other reason to follow than "Dunn looks scummy. I agree with what has been said there."

No, I was just more loud about it.

Also NS, I can understand the rationale about not wanting to move malakitten vote to a degree, but I expect that the additional concealed reason to be explained asap when possible.

Honestly I still personally dont see it lining up with your projected tone over the matter

I think it's more odd those 2 (one who said she didn't know how to take NS request for giving his vote to her) and then she gives her vote to him, made any sense for town to trust another player with a vote, when they barely have a read on that player.

[farside22]

Spoiler:

I’m not voting you yet mala but I’m worried my fears are true

No, I’m town I’m just having a rocky start.

It will prob remain on me until he gets a solid scum read that he death tunnels

<3 ya

What the fuck is my reaction to the current battle Mages posts.

@Notty:

Right now scum wise I’m kinda getting some pings, but nothing solid as of yet. {Vot, Dunn, BM}
I have more town pings than scum pings. {HK, bob}

I hate to say it but I’m still ok with a Dunn lynch. As much as I didn’t like BM’s posts.. the SG flop is going to be a turn off right now in terms of voting there until I sort that out. Gera is off the table for today, but note I’m not sold on him being scum
Or town. He’s really null for me; the same with NM.

VOTE: clidd

Be willing to vote for Dunn.

I had a rough day, there’s no way I’m posting until Wed.

Mod: I’m VLA til Wed. Giving my vote as a proxy to nottyscience

Alright so my problem with SG is that he flipped so easily between BM and GC after he kept hounding that GC is scum because of similarities of tells between other players. Then stated that BM doesn’t feel like scum bc he wouldn’t sort out NM due to meta. Then just flops

It’s like an odd flop. That’s what bothered me is I’m like I read SG going after GC but why is he voting Bm?!?

So above is some quotes from Mala where she calls out notty, has a few town pings but never in any post did she call notty town, but gave her vote to him.
In a few post she says she town read both GC and BM back and forth but out of the blue and for no reason found she joined the BM wagon.
She's had very little follow through with her reads or reasoning on why she finds a player scum. That' s why I call it surface level scum hunting.

[farside22]

Spoiler:

I’m not voting you yet mala but I’m worried my fears are true

No, I’m town I’m just having a rocky start.

It will prob remain on me until he gets a solid scum read that he death tunnels

<3 ya

What the fuck is my reaction to the current battle Mages posts.

@Notty:

Right now scum wise I’m kinda getting some pings, but nothing solid as of yet. {Vot, Dunn, BM}
I have more town pings than scum pings. {HK, bob}

I hate to say it but I’m still ok with a Dunn lynch. As much as I didn’t like BM’s posts.. the SG flop is going to be a turn off right now in terms of voting there until I sort that out. Gera is off the table for today, but note I’m not sold on him being scum
Or town. He’s really null for me; the same with NM.

VOTE: clidd

Be willing to vote for Dunn.

I had a rough day, there’s no way I’m posting until Wed.

Mod: I’m VLA til Wed. Giving my vote as a proxy to nottyscience

Alright so my problem with SG is that he flipped so easily between BM and GC after he kept hounding that GC is scum because of similarities of tells between other players. Then stated that BM doesn’t feel like scum bc he wouldn’t sort out NM due to meta. Then just flops

It’s like an odd flop. That’s what bothered me is I’m like I read SG going after GC but why is he voting Bm?!?

So above is some quotes from Mala where she calls out notty, has a few town pings but never in any post did she call notty town, but gave her vote to him.
In a few post she says she town read both GC and BM back and forth but out of the blue and for no reason found she joined the BM wagon.
She's had very little follow through with her reads or reasoning on why she finds a player scum. That' s why I call it surface level scum hunting.

this was in my spoiler text.

So above is some quotes from Mala where she calls out notty, has a few town pings but never in any post did she call notty town, but gave her vote to him.
In a few post she says she town read both GC and BM back and forth but out of the blue and for no reason found she joined the BM wagon.
She's had very little follow through with her reads or reasoning on why she finds a player scum. That' s why I call it surface level scum hunting

[farside22]

So how is it we are less than a day away from the day ending and we aren’t even close to lynching someone??

Also not_mafia is bothering me.

I don’t really like Porken’s posts, but i‘M trying to give him a chance.

@farside: I don’t think scum!notty would stop a potential tunnel, but I feel like town!notty would notice that he’s following into his normal tunnel and to try to stop and let players rest feels town motivated. He is one of my stronger reads so i felt better ok giving my vote especially when my head wasn’t in this game or anywhere in general

You tell a player you believe they will continue to tunnel, so them stopping = town? That's like giving the scobby doo crew a clue and pointing to the killer.

And Mala's kinda right. It's time we start settling on a lynch, with 13 hours left in the day, and I don't think this day phase will go anywhere than Porkens, unfortunately.

Thus, VOTE: Porkens

Unless anyone has any reason to think this day phase could possibly lead to another lynch,

Probably not I see too many people just sitting to the side not trying to push anything at this point, not really a fan of voting someone I don't see as scum but I'll be back if a vote is needed there.

ebwop: Nah I'm feeling vot town in my bones. I would say mala is scum on the pork wagon

[farside22]

Pork: After my back and forth with Dunn he's a null read. I didn't like his beginning, don't like he is lurking out the day currently but I'm very certain about my town reads on SG and Votato.
Honestly after modding a game where a last minute push resulted in a town PR being lynched I don't like the odds at this late hour of flipping players reads and most seem like they just don't care at this point.

VOTE: Pork

[farside22]

Votato those reads are insane what do you base them on?

Stun, if you scumread HK we are light years apart here.

Votato always has the worst reads I see in any game.

[farside22]

Votato, I misread the last read, that one is fine in theory. However inconsistent with your previous stances. Why did you hop on the GC wagon like that?

Farside well I fucking care! Dunn is nothing but scum this game, the countereagon onto GC, the sheeping from tato, the free pass to ger. remember all this while you settle on my corpse. Jesus Christ.

If the mod adds the time I would push GC/Mala over Dunn did you see the post where mala calls BM town but then places a vote there.
Like come on that is shit fucking vote.

Pork: After my back and forth with Dunn he's a null read. I didn't like his beginning, don't like he is lurking out the day currently but I'm very certain about my town reads on SG and Votato.
Honestly after modding a game where a last minute push resulted in a town PR being lynched I don't like the odds at this late hour of flipping players reads and most seem like they just don't care at this point.

VOTE: Pork

here comes the bus

Please don't heckle me I'm really not in the mood for it.

[farside22]

@mod I request that you add 24 hours out of consideration for replacement

[farside22]

Porkens, do you have any meta where you have been lynched on D1 or close to being lynched as (preferably both alignments)? I just want to look at it and see if I spot anything.

he replaced in a game I modded I saw the same thing here he did there so I didn't see scum there.

VOTE: GC

[farside22]

votato: You were in this game with porks
Do you see similarities in his scum game from there to here?

[farside22]

farside/porkens/HK?

Are you faking this badly because every time you post shit reads for no reason i start to wonder if your serious or doing this as scum.
If you have a reason for those reads, say so if not i will join nm vote withoit hesitation

[farside22]

Bc I’ve been drinking and now my neighbors who I was porch chilling with have left, let’s run down the player list.


votato - I’m thinking town but siiigh
bob3141 - leaning town now tbh
DoctorPepper - null bit was thinking town at some point
Not_Mafia- town Honestly not sure how folks can’t see between the lines with his posting.
geraintm - pretty sure town
Ghost Ganster stungun0404 - town Like, annoyingly super town and I say annoyingly because he can get a thought in his head and it might be wrong by gd he runs it down.
Green Crayons - town
farside22 - honestly thinking scum. Sorry <3
HK 50 - town, even tho I don’t k ow where he’s coming from with his fixation on stun
Battle Mage clidd - scum
Malakittens - null. Like if you put a gun to my head I’d slot her town but damn she’s been pretty absent in a way I cannot read
notscience - town. Not even a Q.
Dunnstral - scum

He'd have a lot to explain after a post like this on why he scum reads anyone.

[farside22]

farside/porkens/HK?

Are you faking this badly because every time you post shit reads for no reason i start to wonder if your serious or doing this as scum.
If you have a reason for those reads, say so if not i will join nm vote withoit hesitation

oh no i wouldnt want scum voting me!!!!! are you trying to look like you're fake distancing so when you flip scum ill look scummy? isnt it a little late for a pure OMGUS vote? NM has yet to state a reason for voting me, so feel free to sheep that if you want.

the way you three are interacting, particularly the first two, and the way you are each individually interacting with wagons screams scum.

How so? Like walk me through how you jumped to this conclusion

[farside22]

I also asked you how porkens reminds you of his scum game votato

[farside22]

farside/porkens/HK?

Are you faking this badly because every time you post shit reads for no reason i start to wonder if your serious or doing this as scum.
If you have a reason for those reads, say so if not i will join nm vote withoit hesitation

oh no i wouldnt want scum voting me!!!!! are you trying to look like you're fake distancing so when you flip scum ill look scummy? isnt it a little late for a pure OMGUS vote? NM has yet to state a reason for voting me, so feel free to sheep that if you want.

the way you three are interacting, particularly the first two, and the way you are each individually interacting with wagons screams scum.

that would take *effort*. ill go through and make *effort* day 2, or if it seems like the porkens wagon is really falling apart. theres a lot of gut, and it takes time for my brain to catch up with my gut.

The first says you have reasons based on interaction, the second says it's gut. So??

[farside22]

Spoiler:

farside, could you elaborate on your scumreads?

Dunn scum read you can find: here Thanks in part to GC for finding the massive discrepancy.
And if you are unclear why this scummy. Mala was calling you and hk scum together as well. Dunn basically agreed with those scum reads then switched to mala is scummy for saying the exact same fucking thing.

As for NS well I don't like his vote on you. He ignored the Dunn wagon and his reads here really have no explanation.
Like BM for example was pretty much not saying much, Gera hasn't offered much but he went with voting for you over others.
Why the criticism for DP?
I get the impression the list is a reason for him not to vote for Dunn.

I have a few null reads: BM, geraintm and mala.

I'm equating your play to large normal and NM I have a gut ping he is town (now he has tricked me in the past so I'm not married to my gut) but I get where he is going with BM.

I feel like my read on NS should change......I know that sounds odd, but i just finished a game where a player says all the things that sound right but still that weird ringing sound is in the back of your head saying. NO DON'T BUY IT!!
I wish mala said something more. I feel like when I read her post it's all surface level posting that offers nothing new to the conversation.

It's possible I guess, but votato or Battle Mage is today's lynch

what exactly is the case against me? i realize that my vote was a bit lazy/sheepy but i did say that i found GC suspicious before stun's case. so either i expected a good case and decided to bus before i even knew why i was bussing, or stun read my mind and said exactly what i was thinking. i guess ill leave it to you to decide which is more likely

Fos votato

Bad unicorn, bad. I'm not sure what your trying to do with your interaction with GC. Half I was like is he really trying to get GC to scum read him or is he goading GC for a reason. The other half is like, wow that guy.
Just going to say one last time. I hate your play style.
*take fos back*
*glares at votato*

post 518 this is making no sense to me. BM is usually more logical then this unless he is on tilt, no reason for tilt at this point.

Sigh now GC, he is on tilt. I need something strong to drink to read through his post. I can tell at this point it is going toward rage/none sense mode.
hmmm note to self check GC meta. I don't like GC's rant over BM's requested replacement. It's a bit over the top.

@Mala: Who are you currently scum reading?

Mage/votato/Dunn

Vote Dunn with me!

I find it weird that geraintm and dunn are suddenly coming out of the woodwork sticking up for BM, and dunn has already stuck up against geraintm being lynched, and geraintm weakly against dunn? Anyone else find this strange?

Meh. I have seen scum stick up for town and buddy those that are on players scum list. I find that NAI typically for that reason.


I stopped on page 25, I have to run out shortly. I hope to have a finally thought or at least scum list when I'm done. I had a weird thought that hit me while I was reading things and I want to reread a few things over to see if I'm going crazy.

I don’t really get the farside scumread either because I’ve been agreeing with every one of her posts

But no seriously I think her mala read makes decent sense especially given the info available thus far

Pedit-

Eh. Seemed over the top to me, but as I said I’m still getting reacquainted and it’s why I’m not pushing it besides my first comment and your questions.

I’m alive

Mala who’s scum

That second questions open to DP and farside too before I effort and read those wall posts from bob and bot

I’m giving mala space bc I’m nice and also a wee bit drunk

There’s more than one way to skin a huma- a ca- an animal

Miltabk I don’t remember you being this cryptic

Farside I’m honestly not engaged we went to hang with my work friends in the city and have been drinking since 2p and I haven’t sufficiently efforts but I wanna feel Involved

Hi friend I will vote when I am sober enough to Lynch some ecumfucks bc idk if you’ve tried but it’s hard to figure out ulterior motives while drunk but I’m good for it I promise or farside mala and dp will Lynch tf out of me

That's cool. Man the guide lines and the social standards are going to be a pain in the ass for a few months. I haven't even been called to come back to work and my place has been open a month now. They had some people come back so far, but not all.

When you go back be very careful with the table cleaning water the CDC recommends weve lost multiple uniforms so far to it! Otherwise its not really too difficult you just have to keep the tables separate and the whole mask thing.

Yeah, I'm glad there are a few people here I've played with so my day1ness wont be too much of a problem

???

[Declaration:]

Townlean on the sentinent green crayons.

Why?

Hm. I really did just like HK 137. But I want to see how that progresses

2nded

Bob reads well so far. It's still early but nothing jumps out as bad. I think HK is just proding people. I find one question a bit non-sense so far but to each there own.

Is it bad I see their back and forth as tvt

I have more town pings than scum pings. {HK, bob}

Maybe you are town

I'll catch up later, but for now:

VOTE: HK 50 - biggest wagon and he appears to have a horrible post restriction and needs to be put out of his misery.

[Definition:]

Efficiency: the ratio of the useful work performed by a machine or in a process to the total energy expended or heat taken in.

Known antonyms: Master Battle Mage

I have no read off this but I feel like yall need to read it again because its hilarious

VOTE: Battle Mage

Not a bad vote. Someone's living up to their name.

Itd be a lot nicer if hed give reasons for his votes

bob's posts look like scum trying to effort. (shrug)

I can kinda see it but I think it just sounded town?

[Rebuttal:]

Space to do what exactly? You asked a similar question to Masters Doctorpepper and Farside right afterwards which indicated to my sensors it was directed towards townish people in your perspective. Or is this wrong?

[Accusation:]

During the Farside vs Malakitten interaction, you simultaneously supported farside read while also pleading the case that somebody not knowing the reference is NAI. I would have no issue with this had you committed to something like: "Master Farside push was good for the info at the time, but ultimately I find the points raised to be NAI".

In short, I see you as someone who is fencesitting. Your actions seemed planned to respond to whatever the threads focus was at the time. When master Malakitten was being pushed, you voiced suspicion in post 70 and 74 fueling it. When the pressure waned and was redirected to Dunnstral/farside, you casually begin to treat master malakitten as town tonally.

Just circling back in case you missed my reply- its the people im used to. I agreed with her comment but not that it made her scum- my scumread was from malas reaction to the push, which iirc someone said is prob just town frustration at being pushed over stupid shit which made a lot of stuff. I get it seems fencesitty but until Ive got scum in my sights i sit back and chitchat with my usual suspects to help me get my footing

OK, I'm halfway through the pages. Making progress!

Would like to know how many scum are typically in a 13 player game though? 2? 3? Or 4? I am guessing 3, but not sure.

I am assuming 3

Id just like everyone to note this was a 7 min reply which means hes actively reading the thread just doing nothing

VOTE: Geraintm

Absolutely nothing in their ISO thus far points to scumhunting, and I do not like that. Especially paired together with their commitment to stalling that they admitted to in 108 by saying "you all do you, i'm going to wait until things become more clear."

That does not settle right with me at all.

goodvotes

this dude is town

I have nothing at the moment. day 1 people talk but it doesn't mean anything. votes are the important thing and there just haven't been many so far. I'm very much the type of person who looks at people's voting patterns and trying to either spot inconsistencies or really, really bad logic used to justify them

when I say you all do you, it is just me saying I don't have the mental capacity to argue over perceived slights, misunderstandings or whatever

@mala- is this true or false

VOTE: Vot.

Mala, hold on. This slot is quite empty. Hasn't posted since day 1 irl. Why the vote here?

nah its prob a good vote

Votato is typically posting more by this point in the game. So i don't mind the vote from mala.

You're town too??? wow.

DP it doesnt look good for you 3/4 of us are already town you best town it up soon before the probabilities getcha

VOTE: Votato

Looks like an all green wagon there lets get this sucker moving

Mala
Bob
Robot
Farside
Stun

GC?

BM
DP
NM
Dunn

gera

votato

I’m townreading the whole wagon, who do you think is scum on it?

I dislike the above post even though I agree with everything farside says

You know who said that farside?

Me

When he was very clearly actively reading the thread and replied 7 min after a question but hasn’t done anything

But I’m not giving reasons right

I feel like my read on NS should change......I know that sounds odd, but i just finished a game where a player says all the things that sound right but still that weird ringing sound is in the back of your head saying. NO DON'T BUY IT!!

I’m town as fuck farside

I’m sorry that’s the only thing I can say atm! I’ll weigh in soon

It’s been 24 hours since clidd said he’d give reads btw

I’m caught up

Stun gun is very wordy and I think it’s weird he asked the robot to be less though but I’m not sure it’s AI or not but man that guy can type some long posts

Mala why is my read progression re you town if you said yourself you expected to be tunneled all game

I’m flip flopping on voteto

I think mala town
Far town
Stun town
Gc town
Robot town

I’m nulltown reading bm?
Idk about dp

Still not sure about NS, he has been pretty low under the radar about his thoughts as well.

I’ve been vla for most of the day and I dare say pretty up front when I’m not

I wish mala was here for a second opinion on you

Maybe I could go for farside with my double vote.

Lots of quote walls but its just to show the surface level scum hunting that ns is doing. He just makes minor comments, floats into the background and until the moment called me town. Agrees with a player without really adding anything new. He would also make a great association with gc scum reading back. (If gc is scum) with the tvt thing.

Reasons for my scum read on NS. The last post was the strongest reason.

[farside22]

And yes I still scum read NS. He is better at interactions then he is here, so some of my feeling is part meta.

[farside22]

I’m actually p shocked though that bOb still has his vote on Gera.

As for the GC vs BM discussion. I actually did like how BM did come back to explain his read, but I do get GC point about it taking forever.

Notty I think is town because I don’t think scum!notty would be willing to give his vote temp to me That easily and I like how he changed his read on me in terms of when he was sorting me.

OKAY FARAIDE

FAME ON

All of that is weak stuff with very little reasons.

[farside22]

VOTE: Votato

[farside22]

Spoiler: ns vote on votato

As a new day broke out, Jake was found dead... asleep. Despite the wailing of the town to do his job, he stayed still all the same. Micc, the secretary, didn't do Jake's job for him, but instead woke him up.

Vote Count 1.6

Dunnstral (4):

DoctorPepper, farside22, HK 50, Green Crayons

HK 50 (2):

votato, bob3141

votato (2):

Malakittens, stungun0404

notscience (1):

geraintm

Malakittens (1):

Dunnstral

Battle Mage (1):

Not_Mafia

Green Crayons (1):

Battle Mage

Not voting (1):

notscience

---

Mod Notes:

Majority is 7 players.

Day 1 has begun and will end in (expired on 2020-06-22 07:23:04).[/area]

DP it doesnt look good for you 3/4 of us are already town you best town it up soon before the probabilities getcha

VOTE: Votato

Looks like an all green wagon there lets get this sucker moving

Mala
Bob
Robot
Farside
Stun

GC?

BM
DP
NM
Dunn

gera

votato

292 is a bad vote

Yeah, idg why ns voted votato. What does the all green bw even mean when there was only 2 votes?

ns, you ever explain/justify this?

fmpov the vote made sense and the unvote made sense. i townread ns for the way it went down based on meta. meta was the reason for the vote.

Why does ns get a free pass with reference to meta whether on him or about you?

[farside22]

But the thing you said is I never called town Notty.
I just proved that was a lie.
What we OT not it’s weak in your eyes
I still called him town
And then had to take a mental health vacation and have my vote to him

So take your twist

Your town read was off one post compared to others is weak. Your whole game has been fluff, even your return had brought back nothing new.
At all.
Tell me when you have ever given your vote to anyone. Ever.

[farside22]

Spoiler: ns vote on votato

As a new day broke out, Jake was found dead... asleep. Despite the wailing of the town to do his job, he stayed still all the same. Micc, the secretary, didn't do Jake's job for him, but instead woke him up.

Vote Count 1.6

Dunnstral (4):

DoctorPepper, farside22, HK 50, Green Crayons

HK 50 (2):

votato, bob3141

votato (2):

Malakittens, stungun0404

notscience (1):

geraintm

Malakittens (1):

Dunnstral

Battle Mage (1):

Not_Mafia

Green Crayons (1):

Battle Mage

Not voting (1):

notscience

---

Mod Notes:

Majority is 7 players.

Day 1 has begun and will end in (expired on 2020-06-22 07:23:04).[/area]

DP it doesnt look good for you 3/4 of us are already town you best town it up soon before the probabilities getcha

VOTE: Votato

Looks like an all green wagon there lets get this sucker moving

Mala
Bob
Robot
Farside
Stun

GC?

BM
DP
NM
Dunn

gera

votato

292 is a bad vote

Yeah, idg why ns voted votato. What does the all green bw even mean when there was only 2 votes?

ns, you ever explain/justify this?

fmpov the vote made sense and the unvote made sense. i townread ns for the way it went down based on meta. meta was the reason for the vote.

Why does ns get a free pass with reference to meta whether on him or about you?

its not a free pass. at every stage NS reacted exactly as i anticipated town NS would. when i was lurky NS got pinged, and based on my posts when i came back to the thread NS responded exactly the way NS was supposed to. NS is town.

You have a convenient meta reasoning read on ns but you haven't stated why this game is different then how i was in the large normal.

[farside22]

Let’s Lynch farside mala it’ll be fun

She can get mad about me not having a sensible reason again

Being a shitty player with an attitude helps how? Like do you get off thinking its funny to just being shitty?
Ill be happy to show a game with 145 pages a attitude that did no good for town. Do you think it really sorts players out?

[farside22]

Yeah im not dealing with any more assholes

mod replace me.

[farside22]

Yeah im not dealing with any more assholes

mod replace me.

farside, is there any way you can at least gut out the rest of this day phase? I only ask this because it's got 22 hours left, and we've already had the time extended 3 times, which is more than enough, and I sincerely don't want it to happen again.

If not, I understand, but it would just make things easier if we don't have to pause the game until night time searching for a replacement, and allowing the replacement to catch up during the night phase is also optimal.

Well the mod doesn't take in thread replacements apparently. So I will stay for the day leave at night phase.
Already went through a game like this and I don't need another like it.
I would think Dunn would have more to say. This game play is reminding me less and less of animal upick. His attack on pork reads pretty fake.
Still not trusting votato. He hasn't explained well or at all the response ns meta is town. I might actually agree with sg that ns is being pocketed but idk because my feelings on the spot are negative.

[farside22]

Farside did you read the quotes from him re me/Dunn? It’s literally all rvs and then one mid game post I legitimately don’t know where he got the pocketed thing from. The only other time before recently when I was townreading him was when I called him out for beetlejuicing and he never even responded to me.

I only read the private message. After that I didn't really want to read much else. TBF I just felt best not to interact with you.
I don't see Dunn as pocketing anyone to be frank, I don't even know what is reads are at this point. He's been more active in games (at least he was in Animal Upick) so his lurking and providing nothing new this close to deadline reads more scummy to me.

[farside22]

Okay. I’m gonna keep tryharding just let me know if/when you feel up to chatting. I get I have a big uphill battle.

Well if it helps I don't think your scum any more my pool is more Dunn/Votato/Mala/GC

That's where I'm leaning on the most. If you are town I think 2 players pocket you. I saw it happen before where scum did that so I'm not buying what either are selling.
Also I find it odd that votato only uses meta as a town read on you but he knows my play and hasn't explained why he see's this as scum me. At this point i think he's faking stupid.
That's my head for the day. Won't be switching to pork if I can absolutely help it.

[farside22]

Im only half reading but i saw the ger push and I am not a fan.
I predict sg will lose this game for town. These mulri push and whip lash reads do not help the game

[farside22]

I’m not voting you yet mala but I’m worried my fears are true

No, I’m town I’m just having a rocky start.

Mala o have a general townread on, votes on clidd and Dunn were fine. A thing that really sticks out to was that post after initial case on the “partners HK and votato” got so blown up.
“No I’m town” is something I’ve used as scum when almost lynched d1.

This is a flag if mala is scum she is setting up one of the 2 as scum and creating a pair that is a non thing.

[farside22]

Im only half reading but i saw the ger push and I am not a fan.
I predict sg will lose this game for town. These mulri push and whip lash reads do not help the game

While you say that, I still have only remained within a pool of pushing 4 players mainly this day phase. Both GC/Porkens, because I think one is scum, HK because I think he is scum, and Gera because I think he is scum.

Votato I am coming around on. I have been resistant to pretty much any other votes, so I have stayed fairly consistent in spite of flipping between that pool.

Plus, if I think one of GC/Porkens is scum, and the other is not, then why should I lynch one of those when I could get one of geri/HK lynched instead?

I didn't even know you had a scum reaf on gera. I still see too many fingerprints of mala giving him the benefit of a game day. She said this is how he is and other then lack of reads hes just null for me.

[farside22]

Farside like i said my experience with you is different. It was longer ago and i feel like you are a tougher read

That large normal ended 3 weeks ago, maybe a month. How long ago did your game end with NS

[farside22]

Farside like i said my experience with you is different. It was longer ago and i feel like you are a tougher read

That large normal ended 3 weeks ago, maybe a month. How long ago did your game end with NS

less than a week ago? it ended right around whenever this one was starting. and since i was scum in that game, it was more memorable. i dunno. when you arent actively attacking me i dont get as worked up about your posts. notsci is very... loud. maybe you should attack me more?

Both games look to have ended around the same time. And from the last game we played i didn't need to actively attack you to have your read change on me.

[farside22]

His attack on pork reads pretty fake.

Not sure what you're talking about.

hmm apparently that wasn't you and I can't recall who I thought that about.
Doesn't matter come D2

[farside22]

Robutt, please vote Porkens

Come back to the unicorn. I have cookies!

[farside22]

Good, I found a scum game of his I was reading here: https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p11502149

Similarly, he stuck to an early RVS vote, but then eventually pushed a player that was town with a case that led to that townplayer's lynch. So he held back any other votes until he had that possible sticking gun.

I am happy with where this vote went, and hope he flips scum. Thanks nm for hammering!

I don't see why he wouldn't just fake claim as scum.
But what do I know.

[farside22]

Geraintm, i think from my perspective it didn't look like you were scumhunting, and I didn't like a lot of the theories that came off as anti-town to me based off my experiences, so I would just suggest to be careful if you are town here in future games to make sure your theories can't be interpreted as anti-town (such as the no lynch).

I am looking at those who simply followed up on me asking them next if you flip town, which would be in the pool of Porkens, HK. Porkens probably first needs to be looked at, especially with his scumreads of me, you, Bob, Dunn and Votato? Like 4 of those might flip town imo if that is the case.

Votato as a dark horse on your wagon.

Votato is scum in this game. You should learn to listen to others and not just your own views.
That's my 2 cent.