Micro 949 | Mask of Monsters | Game Over!

[Katrielle Mask]

hello all!

VOTE: Kirk

[Katrielle Mask]

hi!

how are you today? excited for the game?

yes, thank you! how are you?

[Katrielle Mask]

i agree! it's not rocket science people, be a lil more loose

VOTE: Katreille

scum's second account making a late and safe entrance?

Sorry for coming in late, I’m a little confused but I think I like Kim

[Katrielle Mask]

i'm doing great, you're making me guilty for accusing you already

also you chose the worst of the happy emojis

surely or are much better

Ok! I will try to be better about that from now on!

[Katrielle Mask]

I think I scumread Kirk a little. It's a bit of a gut feeling at this point but I will try to elaborate later.

[Katrielle Mask]

Scum has decided to be obvious scum with the second mask(Kris Mask) to prevent too many associations.
Deliberately writing in allcaps is obvious obfuscation.
I hoped to be able to catch them with associations but it seems we must do this the old-fashioned way.
VOTE: Kris Mask

it's the second page, why do you expect associative content from his slot? ie why are you bringing this up even as a point of note? like it's the second page and there'd no associative content from my slot either? like why is this significant at this stage of the game?

==

kim might be town.

==

I probably just outed myself to like a dozen people lol. I don't even care. If anyone can prove they know who I am from that I can pretty much lock them as town.

why

==

komainu might be town too? not sure yet. this + kim are almost entirely gut rn

[Katrielle Mask]

Associative content could form early. Using allcaps obfuscates writing styles. Scum can choose to play 2 masks. But they can choose to play 1 mask and to use obvious constructed content on the other. I disagree with leaving the revealed mask alive until LYLO. It should be earlier, because scum could guess our identities. The writing style allcaps suggests that they are scum. The unintentional reveal suggests they are scum, because juggling with accounts is more difficult if you have to handle three.

Hmm I feel like you're shading him in bad faith. VOTE: Kuzco

[Katrielle Mask]

I’m unsure how to feel about Kuzco. His responses seem kind of townie (in content) but they’re a bit over the top (in reaction and timing).

[Katrielle Mask]

I skimmed a couple of Porkens ISO from recent games, specifically two of them, linked below.

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... er_sort=Go
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... er_sort=Go

The only two players here who I think are likely to also be run by Porkens are Karma and Kuzco. Karma there just isn't a whole lot from. Kuzco has conveniently been on Kris' butt since the game started. Every single one of his posts has been targetted at Kris or re-voting Kris, almost as if he's playing with TMI. An interesting mechanic to keep in mind is that the lack of content from one scum account results in the replacement of two scum accounts. So I'm torn. Is Kuzco so set on getting rid of his second account so that he can post solely on the first that he will scrape the bottom of the barrel to get town cred for lynching him immediately? Dreading running two accounts so greatly that he explained what he was doing as he was doing it? At this point, I'm unsure. I recognize that the logical solution to the problem in front of me is likely simply the lynch of Kris, and the the most likely scenario for Kuzco scum that is apparent to me is Kris also being scum, which additionally points to Kris being lynched. I might be confbiased slightly, but I need to see more from Kuzco not relating to Kris before I feel I can properly move on.

[Katrielle Mask]

I was previously thinking there aren't many scenarios where Kuzco Mask pushes Kris Mask while simultaneously thinking he was scum, but I think that if he gave up on his Kris Mask push right now, then it defeats the purpose of not shooting people until the end of the game. So does immediately shooting that slot. It is a bit of a stretch, I think, but that slot is one of the few that hasn't really pinged me as town yet, and as far as I can see every slot has posted between Porkens slip and replacement.

[Katrielle Mask]

personally i think we should lynch the scummiest slot rather than based on interactions unless it's obvious

i'm sure Porkens and most of the players here would be able to imitate a good range of posting styles so speculating on this isn't very useful

I don't disagree with you. I personally find Kuzco to be the most individually scummy slot, I am simply trying to justify finding him scummy with his attack on Kris. I've posted the more challenging leaps in the thread because they are parts I think I need feedback on to fully flesh out.

[Katrielle Mask]

VOTE: Kris Mask

[Katrielle Mask]

What is "tiaj?"

[Katrielle Mask]

If kris is town, scum won`t nightkill, or kill kris at day, until they can achieve their win with that method. It is better for town to lynch kris today. If they are scum then we know who scum is.

Do you have thoughts on anyone ~besides~ kris?

[Katrielle Mask]

If kris is town, scum won`t nightkill, or kill kris at day, until they can achieve their win with that method. It is better for town to lynch kris today. If they are scum then we know who scum is.

Do you have thoughts on anyone ~besides~ kris?

I have identified Kay as town, but I haven`t found the second scum account yet.

Is more coming? Because I am not satisfied.

[Katrielle Mask]

If kris is town, scum won`t nightkill, or kill kris at day, until they can achieve their win with that method. It is better for town to lynch kris today. If they are scum then we know who scum is.

Do you have thoughts on anyone ~besides~ kris?

I have identified Kay as town, but I haven`t found the second scum account yet.

i like Kay, Kitsune, Komainu, Katrielle

Kris is probably town but on limited time

scum is in Karma, Kirk, Kuzco?

What makes you townread Kay?

[Katrielle Mask]

Does anyone understand my feeling

(´• ᴗ •`✿)

[Katrielle Mask]

What makes you townread Kay?

[Katrielle Mask]

Kim; town. Her posts are consistently pushing the game forward in a town-motivated manner. Her stream of consciousness mindset is very hard to fake as scum, and I have mind-melded with her on occasion
Komainu; very likely town. Seems to have a relatively logical mindset that I can follow with some form of consistency
Kitsune; very likely town. While I don't necessarily agree with everything this slot is saying nor their frame of reference, their position seems to be one of a member of the uninformed majority, and they are constantly asking questions to push the game forward. His pushing the poem thing seemed pretty towny to me.
Karma; null. His push on Kuzco might make him town, but his lack of anything else and his weird interactions with Kuzco almost more than negates that.
Kuzco; weak scum. It took shockingly little time for him to give up on watching Kris for associations, a slot he cannot seem to be able to get off his mind, as he rarely mentions anyone or anything else.
Kris; weak scum. Lying about being replaced combined with overall strange interactions with the rest of the thread and being effectively contentless with a high post count grossly increase his chances of being scum despite the lack of anything particularly damming being posted by the slot.

This leaves Kirk and Kay.

[Katrielle Mask]

i agree! it's not rocket science people, be a lil more loose

VOTE: Katreille

scum's second account making a late and safe entrance?

Sorry for coming in late, I’m a little confused but I think I like Kim

If you look at their ISO you will notice that the ´ only appears at the very first post, then it is always '.
Kris uses ´ continuously. Kris also tried to hide the posting style at first by writing in allcaps.
Katrielle was the one who compared accounts and said the only people who could be it would be Karma and myself, conveniently pushing themselves out of the equation.
Might have been an attempt to prevent others from comparing herself with Kris.

Associative content could form early. Using allcaps obfuscates writing styles. Scum can choose to play 2 masks. But they can choose to play 1 mask and to use obvious constructed content on the other. I disagree with leaving the revealed mask alive until LYLO. It should be earlier, because scum could guess our identities. The writing style allcaps suggests that they are scum. The unintentional reveal suggests they are scum, because juggling with accounts is more difficult if you have to handle three.

Hmm I feel like you're shading him in bad faith. VOTE: Kuzco

I’m unsure how to feel about Kuzco. His responses seem kind of townie (in content) but they’re a bit over the top (in reaction and timing).

That progression is awful.
They claimed two scumreads and one townread and gave no reads on anyone else, and their reads on anyone but me are without credible explanations, but they attacked me for having only two reads.
VOTE: Katrielle

I don’t agree I’m pushing myself out of the equation or pushing you for reads while I'm giving none. I’ve tried my best to express what I’m thinking and I can't be any more "certain" because I'm not sure.

For this case, consider; I took two games from Porkens and compared them to the play in this game. You knew that was the post I made, because you read it and tried to use it against me in this post here, yet you are still trying to frame me as using the case of using a single symbol. That's not an item I find of particular interest, nor was it in any way part of the post I made. If you think I'm pushing myself out of the equation, why don't you compare me to Kris, instead of theorizing that I could be comparable?

[Katrielle Mask]

VOTE: Kuzco L-1

Kuzco has slipped, removing the reason to lynch Kris over them. He's had only a read on Kris for the entirety of the game, dodged questioning when inconvenient for him, and now has only one other read - his read on me after I've pushed him hard.

[Katrielle Mask]

I wish Kuzco explained the why for Katrielle.

i agree! it's not rocket science people, be a lil more loose

VOTE: Katreille

scum's second account making a late and safe entrance?

Sorry for coming in late, I’m a little confused but I think I like Kim

If you look at their ISO you will notice that the ´ only appears at the very first post, then it is always '.
Kris uses ´ continuously. Kris also tried to hide the posting style at first by writing in allcaps.
Katrielle was the one who compared accounts and said the only people who could be it would be Karma and myself, conveniently pushing themselves out of the equation.
Might have been an attempt to prevent others from comparing herself with Kris.

Associative content could form early. Using allcaps obfuscates writing styles. Scum can choose to play 2 masks. But they can choose to play 1 mask and to use obvious constructed content on the other. I disagree with leaving the revealed mask alive until LYLO. It should be earlier, because scum could guess our identities. The writing style allcaps suggests that they are scum. The unintentional reveal suggests they are scum, because juggling with accounts is more difficult if you have to handle three.

Hmm I feel like you're shading him in bad faith. VOTE: Kuzco

I’m unsure how to feel about Kuzco. His responses seem kind of townie (in content) but they’re a bit over the top (in reaction and timing).

That progression is awful.
They claimed two scumreads and one townread and gave no reads on anyone else, and their reads on anyone but me are without credible explanations, but they attacked me for having only two reads.
VOTE: Katrielle

[Katrielle Mask]

VOTE: katrielle. I trust NK15's read.

Kirk, that's just wifom and I don't think much of it.

Can I ask why you’re voting for me? Is it because you think I'm not being helpful or do you think I'm scum?

[Katrielle Mask]

By the way this whole discussion about what if Porkens is some other account is the reason that he should have just been modkilled then and there. This is stupid and we should just kill him.

Komainu

, how have your current thoughts changed since this post?


==

If Kris is indeed town, I think the people who argued saving the shot until LYLO is better (Kirk and Karma iirc) have a higher chance of being scum because I have seen it be a reasonably effective tell that if someone claims the scum's actions were dumb or didn't make sense, scum are more likely to defend them. It's not ironclad, but it is a thing.

Kay and Kris are likely not aligned because the above post came before the following post. This thought is likely at least somewhat unhelpful, though, since Kay is likely town due to her poem submission.

@mod Has the player behind Kris Mask ever been replaced? Is that public knowledge?
Has the player who slipped their main identity been replaced? Is that public knowledge?

There are no replacements this game. Players cannot be replaced.

[Katrielle Mask]

Hmmm... @Kris, what is your opinion on Karma?
@Karma, what is your opinion on Kris?

[Katrielle Mask]

Katrielle, why did you point out reasoning to vote you?

What do you mean?

VOTE: Kris

L-2

[Katrielle Mask]

I have no reads

I’ve given my reads and my advice

[Katrielle Mask]

UNVOTE:

@Komainu, why do you town read Kirk? There is only one alignment this game that would prefer to keep alive players that have slipped over players that have not.

[Katrielle Mask]

@Kirk, it seems as if you're looking for reasons to vote for me specifically, and it seems strange, at least from my perspective.

[Katrielle Mask]

VOTE: Kris

L-1

[Katrielle Mask]

i could also see Kitsune and Komainu being the same person for reasons

this is probably not very helpful actually, since we can't talk about the reasons and speculating about people is obviously very bad. just getting my thoughts out there for the sake of transparency though

still having said all that it's hard not to lynch Karma here. i have no idea who they are i thought i had a decent idea at first but the absolute lack of content even at this stage means it's not that person. Karma if you really had to force yourself to have some town or scum reads right now, what would they be and why? i keep thinking scum going with your sort of account would be very helpful so that they can give reads on one account and then not have to fabricate much if their second account adopts a play style like yours

I am the first person, who gave both Kusco and Kris call. It is huge bs to call me lackluster and praise players like Kay or Karti, which didn't give us anything in this game. You are trying to label me in specific in eyes of other players by repeating those statements.

No. I was pushing Kuzco first. I had reads list on day 1. You just figured out there are other players in the game, and you still have no clue how to read them. I've actively participated in the game, you're doing the bare minimum to not get lynched. Nobody is trying to label you with things other players this game, you're the only person alive still trying to consistently fly under the radar.

Komainu seems to have no interest in this setup.

I disagree. What makes you say this?

It is pretty obvious that he didn't join this because of playerlist, so he has to have other reason to be here.

What is this?

His negative attitude looks like distancing.

No, it doesn't. If it did, please tell me what he was distancing from? What negativity is here?

Katrielle is kind of generic player. Maybe she likes lynchwagons too much.

What do either of these mean? Are you accusing me of being on both wagons? Did you not just try to claim credit for both of these lynches?

Kay seems genuine enough. He forgot that vote mechanics exists but whatever.

Not a read. Actually, none of these are reads, just saying things you've observed.

Kirk posts when other people sleep.

I don't find his activity too disparate from anyone else's. Also not a read.

Kitsune has the highest second-account equity. Her posts are often forced and makes themed posts.

What makes you say this? I disagree again.

Kim likes to post a lot and seems to be kind of player that can't be identified with her posts alone. I would need to dig player-specific meta or compare her with scum flips.

Kim is my strongest town read and easily so. I very much disagree that she's difficult to read or identify through her posting habits. This reads like a cop-out from you, a failure to provide any reads once again.

[Katrielle Mask]

second account

What is the second account? Distancing is done from an object, and one you can see. Give me the object, or at least an example of him distancing.

[Katrielle Mask]

The quotes you shared from Komainu do not display a disinterest in the game, just a negativity towards certain attitudes. If you read your post you used to respond to me with, you can see that this is an approach players take from time to time, some more than others. How does this approach connect to the conclusion you drew from it?

"Karma if you really had to force yourself to have some town or scum reads right now"

It's day 3. You shouldn't have to force yourself to have reads right now. Where are your reads?

[Katrielle Mask]

If you disagree with everything then don't waste my time, because i can already see that your standpoint will never change. I am not interested in debating with person of you attitude.

My points of contention with each statement was clearly articulated, I'm uncertain as to how this points to an unwillingness to accept a different standpoint?

[Katrielle Mask]

Maybe yes or maybe you are just naive. If you look at statistics when average player makes a confident reads, their townreads and scumreads are generally less likely to be scum and their nullreads are more likely to be scum.

I'm not sure what you are trying to achieve with coming at me personally, but given your anecdotal (and I say anecdotal, but you can prove me wrong by providing statistical references) evidence, wouldn't you agree that Kim is less likely to be scum, since I have her as a strong town read and not a null read? This still fails to support your assertion that she is unreadable without meta reference.

[Katrielle Mask]

Katrielle, I am interested in debating with person of you attitude.

Alright. To be honest, I don't think my reads have changed all that much since my last post. No player, I think, is blatantly scummy. Kim, Komainu, and yourself remain stronger town reads, Karma, Kirk, and Kay the weaker of such (or null). Karma seems insistent on applying the least possible effort to the game, Kay fails to move out of what I'd like to say is the average player's scum range while maintaining a reasonable demeanor, and Kirk has made points that indicate applied thought, but cannot do so (again) in a way that makes him unlikely to be scum. This is how I see it right now, do you have points you would contend with in this post?

[Katrielle Mask]

On review, I think Kay is more likely town of the lower three. I also significantly doubt that scum have any correct guesses at this point in time.

[Katrielle Mask]

In the most insincere way you were able to do it. I don't believe you desire to gather information at all. Your goal is to achieve the highest shade you can pull.

Typical manipulation

I don't need to shade you, you do that for yourself. What have I done that indicates I only want to scum read you? What evidence do you have that this is anything more than an assumption?

and after you got, you pretend that i gave you wrong answer


Ofc we also got semantic nitpick.

You did give me the wrong answer, or at least one that doesn't have much at all to do with what I was asking about:

Spoiler:

Komainu seems to have no interest in this setup.

I want you to back up your claims because I don't see a whole lot of support for any of them on my own.

He distances from everyone and this "everyone" includes his second account...

One post of his that does this: that's all I'm asking for.

I said that i don't intent to prove it for you. This is my impression and you may have different. However i didn't like your BoP pulled out there.

Since I never accused you of Burden of Proficiency, I'm going to assume you mean "Burden of Proof," which isn't something I pull, it's something you have to begin with given you've made the claims.

[Katrielle Mask]

Karma let's not pretend you aren't at the bottom of just about everyone's totem pole here. I think most player's goal at this point is to get you to townspew yourself such that it becomes obvious that we can apply our attention elsewhere, because I think most people are really uncomfortable with how the last two lynches turnd out, and both of them were doing the same thing you are right now: putting in little to no effort, flying under the radar, and coming after anyone who applies even the slightest amount of suspicion towards their slot. It's in your best interest to work with me - answering my questions and applying yourself only helps you here - I don't think there's any way scum can ask a town player for more information and make the town player look worse for legitimate shows of good faith effort.

[Katrielle Mask]

VOTE: Kim Mask

To some extent, I'm townreading Kitsune, Katrielle, and to a certain extent Karma mask.

I have bad feelings about Kim Mask. I think it makes a lot of sense for them to be a wolf. I'm still side-eyeing Kay, and Is think Komainu Mask is a bit suspicious.

Could you go into a little more detail into the "why" here? Especially if you have any information on how these particularly developed. Your reads of Komainu, Kitsune, Kim, and Karma being the reads I'm the most interested in here.

[Katrielle Mask]

VOTE: Katrielle

Katrielle you can assuage my wrath if you can write me a poem about snow marriage that I feel like no one else could write

No.

[Katrielle Mask]

"Very likely town, but insistent on pursuing items of little to no importance." - Kitsune in a nutshell

[Katrielle Mask]

Why do you think Kitsune is very likely town?

It hasn't changed much since this:

Spoiler:

Kitsune; very likely town. While I don't necessarily agree with everything this slot is saying nor their frame of reference, their position seems to be one of a member of the uninformed majority, and they are constantly asking questions to push the game forward. His pushing the poem thing seemed pretty towny to me.

"Very likely town, but insistent on pursuing items of little to no importance." - Kitsune in a nutshell

Katrielle confirmed as item of little to no importance

That was part of what I was saying, yes.

[Katrielle Mask]

The game is awfully slow for one in which players seem so uncertain of their reads.

[Katrielle Mask]

Katrielle why do you feel unimportant?

Your fascination with me seems to stem with your uncomfortability with the way that I speak, but if you look at my play or the actions I've taken I am easily and uncontroversially town. Any push you might attempt on me holds water like a strainer, and I think you know this since you've yet to provide any form of solid reason why it would be a good idea to direct your attention in my direction.

Kay, Katrielle, and Karma, what are you thinking?

I have shared more of my process on the events occurring in this game than any other player. Your failure to regard these comments is likely more due to the fact that I'm tonally inconsistent which skews your emotional read of me and causes you to not properly recognize when I am sharing these thoughts. I'd much rather hear your approach on the matter, as I think that's been significantly more obscured.

==

i still want Kirk or Komainu

Kirk if all your reads are based on feelings you can't explain, we can't really discern your alignment from them. could you then try and articulate why you vote for me over Kay or Komainu?

Komainu seems to have lost like all interest for this game actually but if he's apathetic then surely there'd be another account too that's waned activity? Kirk fits that but there's no one else who fits that level of apathy, so actually, it might indicate Komainu is town unless it's Kirk and Komainu

VOTE: Kirk

One should be wary of failing to vote another player simply because you think you cannot find their partner. I find it highly unlikely that there is no possible partner for Komainu amidst any player who is currently being scum read.

but then there's Kay as well who still hasn't scumread or voted anyone this game...

she's in the pool as well

I don't scumread Karma per se, but I have a decent amount of townreads outside of them.

why do you townread Komainu and Kirk?

I have also observed Kay's inability to take any form of stance on a matter that requires confrontation, but as I'm looking to press or scumread her, I am reminded that I once town read her. Upon closer investigation of my notes, however, I find the only reasons I have for her being town include her genuine tone and the way she admits vulnerability by submitting the poem and discussing how she is likely to have been discovered by a large portion of the player base.

[Katrielle Mask]

None of my interest on the way you talk, and it's like, really fucking presumptuous to concoct bullshit like that and state it like fact. You're one of the most political and strategic players in the damn game, and if you're hyper aware you have a mostly satisfied jury that doesn't dampen my concerns because that tells me your priorities.

If you're so confident you have a case, quit calling me names and making excuses and let's hear it. You have yet to deny that my play has been absurdly pro-town, moreso than a large portion of other players, not have you discussed the fact that you've asked me for thoughts I've already shared multiple times over. The only thing I've "concocted" here is the only justifiable reason I can come up with outside of straight paranoia for you to have a read on me that is anything other than town, and if you deny even the reason I give you on a silver platter, the final option is the only one I can truly accept. I'm sorry it's unflattering for me to be unimpressed by your desire to push for a lunch on me, but unfortunately I have no desire to flail to your tiny whims. While I'm glad I've impressed you to the point at which you seem to think I have some magnificent potential, that should at no point in time dissuade you from the easiest and most probable solution. Pursuing me because you think I could be outplaying you while I've done nothing but hunt for the good of town this game wastes both your time and mine. Stop.

[Katrielle Mask]

None of my interest on the way you talk, and it's like, really fucking presumptuous to concoct bullshit like that and state it like fact.

You're one of the most political and strategic players in the damn game, and if you're hyper aware you have a mostly satisfied jury that doesn't dampen my concerns because that tells me your priorities.

How does my competency and awareness of the situation inform you of my goals? This line in particular is nothing short of shade for the purpose of defending your ego.

[Katrielle Mask]

It is a bad sign for someone to keep careful track of how many fans they have, it indicates that is their win condition

I'm not. I can't tell you who is and isn't town reading me right now, and I never implies that I could. I only said my play has been towny in a way that no player should reach the conclusion that I'm not town. This isn't an argument.

I didn't like the clinical and dismissive way you finished off Kuzco, it makes me think you were scared of what he might say

Kuzco finished himself. I didn't even intend for him to end there, I was expecting rebuttal not suicide. This isn't an argument.

[Katrielle Mask]

How does shading you defend my ego?

Why do you think I am sure of you?

Why do you assume things?

It is common for players to become aggressive when they feel attacked, in this way you became aggressive and tried to direct shade at me when you felt called out for your bad read of me.

I don't think that you're sure of me and never indicated so. In fact, I think you are unsure of me and for that reason you are having difficulty knowing what to make of the situation.

Assumptions are conclusions drawn without proof, I've presented proof with every argument, the only person assuming things here is you.

I think you are scummy because you didn't write me a poem about snow marriage

That's a bad reason to think I'm scum, but you're welcome to it because I'm not going to do something just because you want me to.

[Katrielle Mask]

I didn't like the clinical and dismissive way you finished off Kuzco, it makes me think you were scared of what he might say

I don't think it's ever been made more evident that you read me based on your feelings and not due to any action of mine, because if you were reading me base d on my play, you would have known Kuzco ended himself. Your ignorance here displays a likelihood good that you raced to my ISO to try to gather evidence to support your conclusion, which is the entirely wrong way around to do things.

[Katrielle Mask]

I misunderstood you

I understand. This happens.

My gut still thinks your scummy because you want to be loved

I have always and will always want to be loved.

Do you think Kim is scummy?

Not particularly, no. I think she and you are my top two town reads at the moment. It is very difficult to maintain the process with which she consistently seems to approach the game. I will be very impressed if she is scum. I am currently quite torn on Komainu. His lack of activity has been disconcerting, but I town read him earlier because his thoughts were similar enough to mine. Kirk is a bit of an oddball who has pressed pro-town agendas, but disappears into the aether, re-appearing at sporadic instances, and I have difficulty proving to myself he is out of any player's scum range. Kay has expressed vulnerability in a way that no other player alive has yet, but fails to present any sort of formidable stance on any subject. Karma has yet to express vulnerability and was effectively not present during the first stages of the game, only recently revealing any sort of genuine behavior or thoughts. It is interesting to note that Karma's increase is Komainu's decline, though it might be nothing. I am hesitant to push any sort of wagon without significant discussion on the matter due to the result of the previous two lynches. My immediate guess would be Karma/Komainu, with Kay at their heels.

[Katrielle Mask]

It is at this point in the game I most expect paranoia to strike, and it is of increasing vitality that players are open and communicative about their reads to help prevent stupid mistakes that will be regretted later when an obvious answer is before our eyes. Taking notes and reminding yourself why certain players seemed towny to you has proven beneficial to me, and may be of assistance to other players as well.

[Katrielle Mask]

Kirk immediately struck me as awkward upon entering the thread.

I think I scumread Kirk a little. It's a bit of a gut feeling at this point but I will try to elaborate later.

[Katrielle Mask]

How are you sure he's not awkward town?

I am not.

Do you remember back when I thought Kirk was scummy

And people just wanted to talk about Kris all the time

Yes.

[Katrielle Mask]

Do you remember back when I thought Kirk was scummy

And people just wanted to talk about Kris all the time

This is actually (I think) a somewhat reasonable indicator you are on the right track - a Kirk scum flip could be good reason to heavily investigate players pushing Kris at that time.

[Katrielle Mask]

One thing that makes me nervous about lynching Komainu is that my willingness to lynch him is recent, while my uncertainties concerning Kay and Kirk have been present since the beginning of the game.

[Katrielle Mask]

Karma who are your first and second picks for lynches today?

[Katrielle Mask]

I have also observed Kay's inability to take any form of stance on a matter that requires confrontation

My what? I've taken plenty of stances. If by confrontation you mean scumreads, that sounds like a pretty arbitrary distinction to me. The game can be solved through correct townreads or correct scumreads.

No. I mean that no opinion you've had this game hasn't been had by someone else before you.

[Katrielle Mask]

I don't really have any scumreads per se. I townread Kim, Kuzco, Kitsune, and to some extent Kirk. Setting Kris aside, I'd probably be wanting to lynch in the remaining group of Katrielle, Komainu, Karma.

Although, the more I think about it the more I think that maybe we should just flip Kris because that information will be very useful especially in sorting Kuzco.

I see. So your "PoE" from day 1 includes justifying flipping a player you have no read on in order to sort a player you supposedly have a town read on that's so strong your willing to have a lynch pool in everyone else. This is where you get your day 3 reads list from?

[Katrielle Mask]

I don't really have any scumreads per se. I townread Kim, Kuzco, Kitsune, and to some extent Kirk. Setting Kris aside, I'd probably be wanting to lynch in the remaining group of Katrielle, Komainu, Karma.

Although, the more I think about it the more I think that maybe we should just flip Kris because that information will be very useful especially in sorting Kuzco.

I see. So your "PoE" from day 1 includes justifying flipping a player you have no read on in order to sort a player you supposedly have a town read on that's so strong your willing to have a lynch pool in everyone else. This is where you get your day 3 reads list from?

I take it back, that logic is new; I don't think I've seen it in any game before at all, but it did justify you saying literally nothing about one of your town reads as he was lynched - you didn't even push a counter wagon.

Outside that, I mean, you haven't added anything to the game.

[Katrielle Mask]

At the point where I would have wanted to consider pushing a counterwagon, Kuzco had already slipped.

You mean at the beginning of the day after Kris had flipped town from the night before?

You did nothing day 2 while the focus was on a player you've claimed was a core part of your PoE since day 1 barring Kris flipping scum (which he didn't). Your participation has only been on request. Your reads are mimicries of other players. Your PoE of 2 -- already a pretty convenient number -- hasn't changed since day 1. Almost half your content is writing poems and explaining why Kim's post was a joke.

[Katrielle Mask]

At the point where I would have wanted to consider pushing a counterwagon, Kuzco had already slipped.

You mean at the beginning of the day after Kris had flipped town from the night before?

You did nothing day 2 while the focus was on a player you've claimed was a core part of your PoE since day 1 barring Kris flipping scum (which he didn't). Your participation has only been on request. Your reads are mimicries of other players. Your PoE of 2 -- already a pretty convenient number -- hasn't changed since day 1. Almost half your content is writing poems and explaining why Kim's post was a joke.

The first part of this is wrong. I got day 1 and 2 flipped.

[Katrielle Mask]

I have not yet received a prod.

[Katrielle Mask]

I want to push Kay.

[Katrielle Mask]

Why?

Your contribution:care ratio is by far the lowest of any player's.

[Katrielle Mask]

And?

Running in circles for the purpose of looking active is perhaps the best way to summarize your play this game.

VOTE: Kay

[Katrielle Mask]

If you insist on summarizing it in bad faith, then sure.

Ok. Summarize it in good faith. Explain how caring quite a bit while contributing very little isn't action for the sake of looking active.

[Katrielle Mask]

Man this is irritating, this is normally where I'd make a meta appeal...

There's at least one person who knows who I am right? Can you back me up here?

I'm not interested in someone else's assumption of the meta of a player they haven't played with.

A great way to turn things around would be to provide reasons for your reads that haven't changed since day 1.

[Katrielle Mask]

Ok. Summarize it in good faith. Explain how caring quite a bit while contributing very little isn't action for the sake of looking active.

Because I would only do something "for the sake of looking active" if I had a vested interest in appearing active but not really being active.

I have not been hugely active; like I said, secret alt games are always going to be like that. It's a pain to log into the alt. What activity I have had has focused on trying to understand what people are doing and how they're thinking. I haven't been focused on finding scum, in part because the alt slips have distracted us from being able to scumhunt, but also because I put a high premium on townhunting rather than scumhunting. I am pretty confident in Kim and Kitsune being town.

As for Kirk, I thought his early-game engagement showed a lack of reservation and an openness that scum would be hesitant to use because it would make connecting their accounts easier (and it's just sometimes hard for scum to fake in general). That engagement waning does of course increase the likelihood that was an act that he's no longer able to maintain, but I still feel good enough about him to not want to touch him right now.

So if we're looking to get some wagons going, I would be fine voting in any of my PoE. I agree that the game ought to be moving a little faster than it is.

Here are the difficulties with this approach:
1. You put a premium on townhunting over scumhunting, but not only is this a borderline fallacious mindset (If you call everyone town in this game, you will be right almost 80% of the time), but you also fail to have townreads that everyone else does not already have as town.

2. Your lynchpool happens to be exactly the number of players that need to be lynched before scum win.

3. Kirk and Kuzco are the only players you can talk about reasons for your reads on, and when you spoke of your Kuzco read you were seated so firmly on the fence that I'm almost certain it's top is imprinted on your rear.

Do you see how you saying this gets us absolutely nowhere, adds nothing, and the only person getting anything out of this is you look slightly better because you wrote quite a few words so it looks like you're more invested?

[Katrielle Mask]

Because I would only do something "for the sake of looking active" if I had a vested interest in appearing active but not really being active.

Additionally, this isn't an argument that you're not scum because you aren't doing the scummy thing I accused you of doing, it's a statement that declares you aren't doing this scummy thing I'm accusing you of doing, because you'd only do it if you were scum. Do you see how you aren't addressing my concerns here, you're simply reinforcing them?

[Katrielle Mask]

Additionally, this isn't an argument that you're not scum because you aren't doing the scummy thing I accused you of doing, it's a statement that declares you aren't doing this scummy thing I'm accusing you of doing, because you'd only do it if you were scum.

Of course. You asked for a good faith explanation, so I gave you the truth. I never said it was the only plausible explanation. Yours is of course PLAUSIBLE, you're just treating it like fact when it's only conjecture.

You're not responding to my point. I'm honestly not even certain what you think my point is, reading this response, so I'll restate it for you; You're doing this thing that makes you scummy. You're telling me that you aren't doing that thing, because for you to be doing that thing you'd have to be scum. Since you are doing the thing that I said you're doing, you must be scum if your own argument follows.

[Katrielle Mask]

What are you talking about? If I call everyone town I will be right 0% of the time because it's impossible for everyone to be town.

Now

that's

a bad faith argument and not a response to my argument.

And I don't really see how them being common townreads factored into it.

That doesn't change the fact that it factors in quite a lot, actually. In several ways, including the fact that it's difficult for scum to lynch players that are widely townread and they're less likely to be asked to explain reads they have in common with other players.

They are still my own. I can explain the rest if you want.

If they were your own, why didn't you explain them game days ago? Or when I asked you multiple times over the past couple IRL days? Yes, please explain. Please contribute. I don't understand why I have to ask you to participate in something you clearly seem to be interested in?

[Katrielle Mask]

I'm saying that you don't know I'm doing that, because there's another possible explanation for what I'm doing.

I'm saying you are doing that, and I don't have to assume you're doing that, because I've already pointed to several posts of yours that added absolutely NOTHING to the game thread except attempts to get the last word in, and you even conceded that point earlier.

But you're assuming I am, and since it is something only scum can do, you're assuming I'm scum, and trying to use that to prove I'm scum.

Again, I'm not assuming anything. I'm pointing at things you do. There's no assumptions here at all. You ARE making posts that get us nowhere fast. You ARE contributing very little to the game while making posts that convey that you care. I'm not assuming that you do that. When you say "I would only do those things as scum," you are saying "I am scum."

[Katrielle Mask]

Like the thing in question is "trying to look active for the sake of looking active." What is your proof that I'm doing that rather than just engaging in the ways in which I prefer?

The latter is not exclusive to the former. You probably are engaging in ways that you prefer, and you probably prefer to engage in ways that advance the game thread very little. This is a false dichotomy.

[Katrielle Mask]

See this is a bad faith argument. It doesn't mean anything unless you set out to come up with reasons why I look scummy and then came across this. Not to mention it isn't even true-- scum need two more incorrect executions to win.

It isn't a bad faith argument, though, because you've given three reads and explained one of them. You've had the same reads since day one. And your PoE is 3, which most people would agree is larger than 2 (the necessary number of executions, by your account, that scum need to win), so yes, it is true.

[Katrielle Mask]

That's, uh, not true? Although I didn't make it clear at the time I did explain later that my Kuzco townread was dependent on Kris being town. That's not fence-sitting.

The following (your explanation of your read on Kuzco) is remarkably fence-sitty, regardless of what you say.

Spoiler:

What I've seen from Kuzco seems pretty solid, although admittedly it's very little. Pointing out that scum are more likely to use gimmicks is fairly astute and it seemed like he really believed that (of course this changes completely if Kris ends up being scum and it was a bus), and while I wouldn't say 183 was a townslip since I did know that scum was one person and just phrased it badly, I like that he pointed it out.

[Katrielle Mask]

Lmao. Because I'm looking so much better out of this exchange.

How, exactly, did you think I was expecting to look better? I know that people hate this stuff. I've been getting shit for it since I joined the site. It does not make me look better, pretty much ever. Can you at least trust that that is true?

No, you're not looking better as a player (you have yet to make a cohesive statement) the fact that you're interacting with me like this is making people want to lynch you less, and I am thinking that might be one of the only reasons you continue to interact with me.

[Katrielle Mask]

Like the thing in question is "trying to look active for the sake of looking active." What is your proof that I'm doing that rather than just engaging in the ways in which I prefer?

The latter is not exclusive to the former. You probably are engaging in ways that you prefer, and you probably prefer to engage in ways that advance the game thread very little. This is a false dichotomy.

You're right; according to your narrow definition of advancing the game, my posts don't do that. But the dichotomy isn't between doing what I like and not advancing the game; it's between specifically trying to pretend as though I'm contributing, versus just doing what I feel like doing (which is assumed to NOT be deceptive in that case). That is a real dichotomy; either I'm intending to be deceptive, or I'm not. You seem to be implying that I am. That's the part I take issue with.

No, not "according to my narrow definition," and the stated dichotomy I quoted you saying is what I mentioned in the previous post. Stop trying to back-track and restate things as items they're not. There is no false dichotomy between you being deceptive and you not being deceptive. You are the person that declared yourself deceptive for your actions. You are the person that tried to make a false dichotomy between the way you enjoy playing and playing falsely.

Now that's a bad faith argument and not a response to my argument.

It is a response. You said that if I just called everyone town then I'd be right on 80% of people-- well, of course, that means that calling everyone town is a dumb thing to do and not helpful. It just means that the accuracy rate on townhunting has to be higher than 80% for it to be good townhunting. If I have three townreads and they're all correct, that would be useful, no?

It looks like an intentional misrepresentation of my point, which is that players are going to have a significantly higher rate of finding town than scum. Finding three town and being right on them is going to happen in every game, so no, it's not particularly helpful. If you as a player reliably found all of town greater than 80% of the time, that would be helpful. Nothing past that.

Katri gives me counterwagoning vibes. She is very eager to push inactive slots but when koma outright refused to contribute here, she just ignored it. I didn't even see koma pocketing katri or doing anything that could emotionally influence her to make out-of-character move.
VOTE: komainu

My difficulty is with players contributing very little while caring quite a bit. That's what I've said multiple times now.

[Katrielle Mask]

Make no mistake - this isn't a miscommunicative TvT, this is Kay restating what I'm saying incorrectly, and then when I try to correct her, trying to restate her original statement.

[Katrielle Mask]

Ugh. Actually it could be she just doesn't understand what I'm saying and that would be grossly disappointing.

[Katrielle Mask]

Even though you don't know who I am, I should hope you think highly enough of me to expect that I wouldn't intentionally misconstrue you to make you look bad, because that wouldn't even work?

I think you would intentionally misconstrue me to make you not look as bad. And yes, it works all the time, lol.

If you're trying to argue that townhunting isn't a real thing and that I'm making it up to push a scum agenda I... don't know what to tell you. I can go through some random games and look for examples of it but that sounds like hell. Better is to ask the other players here if they think it's legit or not.

I'm not arguing that it's scummy to think that. I'm arguing that thinking that townhunting is an effective measure to solve games, you're ignoring obvious statistics. I'm arguing that the approach of finding town vise scum is a failure to understand "scumhunting" as it is. Players with no capacity for reads will constantly consider themselves effective town hunters because 80% of the time they will be right - they will look at a player and say "this player is town for this reason," and regardless of whether or not that particular indicator has anything to do with alignment, 80% of the time they will be right. Then you get players who think they are significantly more competent and try to excuse this "I know what I"m doing, I'm townhunting" approach and it's anti-town because they find three players they think are town and then call the game over. Then you end up in lylo with that player and they realize they never had any clue what they were doing.

Regarding the dichotomy, it does really seem that we aren't understanding each other correctly. Can you try to state, in as simple terms as possible, what the dichotomy you are talking about is, and why you think I must be on one side of it rather than the other?

I have to go for a minute. If you stop reading all my posts as trying to implicate you as scum, that will help. Not everything I"m saying is trying to frame you or set you up. I will likely restate again later.

[Katrielle Mask]

I admit I might be slightly tunnel visioned at this point, but I think I've been seeing similarities in Karma and Kay - times when they're on, the way they approach the game - Kay is on one day, Karma the next. Kris additionally pointed out they had limited interaction early.

[Katrielle Mask]

Regardless, I'm not interested in lynching outside of those two.

[Katrielle Mask]

I have to go for a minute.

Katrielle scumslipped

She had to go for a minute.
Subsequently no one except for northsidegal posted for nearly half a day.
Everyone becomes a great alternate identity for Katrielle. Even assuming she is yakuza, it is surprising that nobody posted during that time, if a larger number of individuals exist, it is even more surprising. Remember when you do the math that you know that everyone in the family is not in the yakuza, so the pool is even smaller.
VOTE: Katrielle
Not many hours are left, I am willing to vote Katrielle, Kirk, or Komainu. Don't ask me in what order, I am already stressed.

What are you on about?

I don't understand your reasoning in the slightest, but I'm fine with voting Katrielle.

Why?

And her latest posts don't really help her case.

How so?

[Katrielle Mask]

Kitsune the argument you're pushing is not out of character for your lazy scum hunting and additionally means nothing unless you assume it to mean so. The alternative to what you're suggesting is equally as likely (if not moreso) than your proposition, hence your argument becomes again: "Katrielle is scum, therefore this post is indicative of such." The fact that you have Komainu (the player with no activity who has revealed he has no interest), Kirk (the player with the quirkiest discussion pattern), and myself as your lynch pool reveals your rapidly deteriorating energy when it comes to approaching the game, thus all must be discarded as candidates until a form of viable argument can be made for their consideration. I recommend attempting at a more objective re-read of the thread in which you attempt to discard any suppositions you have and only come to conclusions as the facts direct, not as they allow your mind to wander.

[Katrielle Mask]

Do you think I'm a wolf?

No. I think you're wasting my time. If you don't know who to push, try to see if you can follow and someone else's proposal and either oppose or support it instead of just tossing out easy names and calling it a day.

[Katrielle Mask]

Kay is on one day, Karma the next.

I post every day. It seems that i missed only like two days and on those kay didn't post either. You pulled this shade out with hope that no one is going to check it.

Kay did post. I had a discussion with her for a while. Like I said though, this part isn't evidence, just possibly me confbiasing.

[Katrielle Mask]

Kay is on one day, Karma the next.

I post every day. It seems that i missed only like two days and on those kay didn't post either. You pulled this shade out with hope that no one is going to check it.

Kay did post. I had a discussion with her for a while. Like I said though, this part isn't evidence, just possibly me confbiasing.

Especially since it could mean a zillion things,an of them are more likely than for it to mean you two are scum together

[Katrielle Mask]

Katrielle and Karma are the only two users who will sometimes allow a quote to be the very ending of their post. I would say only a tenth or so of people will stylistically do this onsite. To me it would feel out of order.

I noticed this while looking at Karma's grammars.

10% of users is actually quite a lot.

[Katrielle Mask]

Even if it was 49%, that type of information is an improvement upon random lynching.

I think it is the most significant thread between two players I have found

No, it isn't, because finding a player's main doesn't actually help us all that much, even if you could use it to find someone's main, which you can't and won't. I think trying to find someone's singular account and trying to link it to other accounts is the worst way to try to play this game given how ridiculously difficult and unlikely it is.

[Katrielle Mask]

Katrielle - okay but this just pings everywhere. Like the shit fight with Kay was garbage on both sides but Katrielle started it and wouldn't let it die and it feels like scum trying to kick up the dirt. I don't really know how else to explain it but Katrielle's interactions do not at all feel sincere to me. Plus if Katrielle reds then Kay basically has to be town

Disappointing you bring this up now right at the end of the day when I no longer have time to discuss it, but if you collectively have decided I should die today, there is nothing more I can do about it.

[Katrielle Mask]

I don't know your main, Katrielle, I just know it's the same as Karma's.

No, you don't. Stop being lazy and play the damn game instead of looking for easy ways out. If we lose I will put the a large majority of the blame on you. You are insistent on throwing because it is too difficult for you to actually try -- you'd rather look for things that seem like slips at a glance than put even the most minute minute of your time towards thinking and processing.

[Katrielle Mask]

That is not the feisty Katrielle I know. Give us hell.

I'd love too but I have to go and I won't be back until the day is over.

[Katrielle Mask]

[Katrielle Mask]

Katrielle - okay but this just pings everywhere. Like the shit fight with Kay was garbage on both sides but Katrielle started it and wouldn't let it die and it feels like scum trying to kick up the dirt. I don't really know how else to explain it but Katrielle's interactions do not at all feel sincere to me. Plus if Katrielle reds then Kay basically has to be town

Disappointing you bring this up now right at the end of the day when I no longer have time to discuss it, but if you collectively have decided I should die today, there is nothing more I can do about it.

I'm sorry, I only just got around to reading it myself.

It doesn't seem to be consensus on you at all though so why the defeatism?

At least two other players have had hankerings to come after me today and while both attempts were a bit lackluster, neither player seems deterred by such facts. That said I'm already running late typing this, I hope day end goes well.