Open 782: Triad Conspiracy (Finish!)

[superbowl9]

First thing we need to do is root out the conspiracy theorists. Raise your hand if you don't believe in the moon landings

[superbowl9]

First thing we need to do is root out the conspiracy theorists. Raise your hand if you don't believe in the moon landings

I don't believe in the moon.

There’s one village cleared!
One to go

[superbowl9]

I just want to be transparent with the thread and let everyone know because I think transparency with the thread is important right now:

Isis and superbowl are having a massive 1v1 in the hood. It's kind of weird but Isis thinks superbowl is town acting intentionally scummy, and superbowl is denying it and accusing Isis of conspiring. It's getting kind of heated and I'm uncomfortable standing in the crossfire. Any advice for how I should be handling this, to put a handle on it?

Can confirm

[superbowl9]

I think the way Tommy Two Times is trying so hard in the PT to keep him engaged with the game is scummy. Yes they would have a scum PT but he keeps trying to paint me like a meanie and it seems like he wants to prove they can control the PT so that he won't lurk out
Also specifically I called him "lousyballbowl", anyone who wants me to use their username has to pick a name that doesn't imply "watch middleaged men watch replay footage" is a sport

I don't want him to lurk out either I need to figure out if I have the red PT

He has homework regarding whether Morning Tweet is towny or scummy and there are wrong and right answers

Don't make me bring this outside

[superbowl9]

TOMMY IF YOU PARAPHRASE MY META POST FROM THE PT I WILL SELFVOTE IMMEDIATELY

Not if I quickhammer you first

[superbowl9]

Also, I take offense to making fun of Superbowl's name.

Ah, a man of culture I see

[superbowl9]

Auro I feel like you're the type of dude to backtrack what you say into a safer statement with the slightest bit of plausible deniability. If so this gonna be a long thread...

[superbowl9]

Give me a sec we're hashing it out rn

[superbowl9]

No response for 5 minutes, pretty sure she's checking scum chat for strats

[superbowl9]

i dont get it -- theres 6/7 odds im with my teammates, so it's much more likely scum is outside of my hood. It makes more sense to me prioritize seeing if scum is elsewhere, rather than spending your time being paranoid of your partners. Additionally if i spend all my time investigating my own hood, and it's wrong, im not gonna know what to do later with regards to the other two hoods

Strong disagree with this strat, if all townies followed this it would be quite easy for scum to buddy up to their townie and go into day 2 with your whole hood looking extremely townie. If everyone just makes their own reads then we can be corrected if need be by the day 1 stump and have a better chance of catching scum day 2, since we've been scumhunting the whole time anyways instead of giving a free pass to possible scum.

The fact that you've had no arguments would make yall more sus if anything, wouldn't it? In most mafia games I've played, "nice" interactions are usually scum/scum or scum buddying town, confrontations are usually started by town and more likely to hit town

[superbowl9]

The fact that you've had no arguments would make yall more sus if anything, wouldn't it? In most mafia games I've played, "nice" interactions are usually scum/scum or scum buddying town, confrontations are usually started by town and more likely to hit town

Are you still arguing with Isis in your hood?

I do think you'd stage an argument with your buddy in the hood if you believed that people would townread arguments and scumread "buddying"

We're on page 20 - she just called me soup bowl

Also this is WIFOM

[superbowl9]

Everything is WIFOM

Everything is WIFOM the way mafiascum thinks WIFOM works.

I kind of feel that this is all that needs to be said. Also, people need to actually try to understand this tell. I can't even begin to describe how many times I've seen someone debating *possibilities* and then being called scummy for 'WIFOM' Or, even worse, someone saying what they believe happened (which is the definition of *not* wifom) and then being called scummy for...yep, WIFOM.

I challenge you to tell me the action that scum might not have done 'WIFOM' on

Yeah...

Y'see, the danger of WIFOM is that it messes with town's heads and makes them doubt reads. But, generally speaking, very few people ever mention it in a scummy manner. I mean, I *use* WIFOM as scum, but you don't ever see me "using" it. Usually my goal is just to make town have to consider things over and over toill their reads are all muddy and useless - that's how scum use WIFOM. Sayingg that you think Player A lied while thinking he would look town for the lie - that's called a conclusion, not WIFOM.

Figure this out, people.

This is true, everything is WIFOM. You will see in the framework below that every action is necessarily within some WIFOM framework, since lvl 0 is

always

not making use of the framework - that's just how WIFOM works. It's just not useful to make a WIFOM *argument* unless you have good reason to believe someone is carrying out a WIFOM action.

In this example:
Lvl 0: Scum acts normally
Lvl 1: Scum knows that argumentation can be seen as town, so argues in an attempt to seem town
Lvl 2: Scum knows that if they argue to seem town, someone will say "you are only arguing to seem town, so you're scum!" Thus scum does not argue, and may even try to use this counter on arguing townies

The argument here is that scum is operating on Lvl 1. However I could just as easily argue that scum is operating on lvl 0 or lvl 2 - making your argument scummy! Etc etc.... So how do we escape the WIFOM? You have to read which "level" the scum is reasonably operating at.

The natural baseline is that all players are operating at lvl 0, playing naturally. If you argue that someone is operating outside this framework - which you have - you have to provide evidence that shows they're operating at that level rather than any other, *especially* the natural baseline (occam's razor). Otherwise, simply pointing out that scum *could* be operating at whichever level which suits your argument with no evidence is simply not helpful and a WIFOM argument.

Your own post supports what I'm saying here, albeit in a way which doesn't directly differentiate (sweet alliteration baby) between a WIFOM action and a WIFOM argument. Scum confusing people by making them go over and over their reads would be a

WIFOM argument

. Scum trying to gain an advantage by abusing meta would be a

WIFOM action

. This is what the *use* but not "use" part of your quote is trying to say.

Your quote defends WIFOM arguments, but this would be incorrect. WIFOM arguments can be right or wrong, motivated by pure or scummy intentions. What makes them correct or incorrect is not that they're WIFOM, but the evidence you use to back the args. Just like any other argument in this game.

Thank you for attending my no one understands WIFOM Ted Talk

[superbowl9]

LMAO I really enjoy you using my example of an incorrect WIFOM train of thought as an accusation - maybe I'm just not up to the snuff of lvl 100 yet tho

Reading me as lvl 1 is NAI, saying it's not a WIFOM argument would be misleading and incorrect.

I *could* have turned this on you and say the fact that you're using WIFOM argumentation, which your own quote says is how scum use WIFOM, is scummy, but I believe that just misunderstand WIFOM, because that's the easiest solution that makes the most sense. That's the difference between making an argument just because you think it can be made vs. actually sorting.

[superbowl9]

If you actually wanted to sort me, you might have asked "Who started your hood argument?" If the answer is me, then you know I'm starting arguments, giving you reason to suspect I might be on level 1.

[superbowl9]

You implied that your potential countering that you're even leveled operating (this is why I chose a decimal for my own level btw, otherwise it's even odd parity) can make an argument that you're operating on level 1 scummy, and I have correctly noted that as an accusation.

You would be correct in noting that it's a potential accusation. However if you read my post you would know exactly why I think it's an extremely weak accusation - if I thought it was a good accusation why did I include it as an example of a bad WIFOM argument lol?

It's a read. I think you believe argumentation is towny, and I think that as a result you would operate on level 1 play. Thus, I conclude that your excessive argumentation is actually scum indicative and not NAI.

Yes, it is a read. No different from 127. To say that it's not a WIFOM argument is just inaccurate though. You literally said in your last post:

And my read is that you're operating at level 1.

You just said yourself that you believe I'm acting within lvl 1 in a WIFOM framework. That's the

definition

of a WIFOM argument. Idk why you believe that reads and conclusions must be completely separate from WIFOM. Your read is not a WIFOM action, that is correct. But if you read my post/understood WIFOM you would know that it's clearly a WIFOM argument.

Now that you (hopefully) understand why you have used a WIFOM argument, we can discuss exactly what can be so harmful about these types of arguments. If you see a post such as 127, you know that it's just a gut read that doesn't have any presented evidence behind it. When you make a WIFOM argument, however, it's very easy to act as though the WIFOM *is* your evidence, when in reality it's just a gut read. This is quite clear in your post:

Thus, I conclude that your excessive argumentation is actually scum indicative and not NAI

You have concluded that my argumentation is scum indicative. Why is my argumentation scum indicative? The

assumption

that I'm working from WIFOM lvl 1. You buried this assumption 1 level deeper into your argument to make it seem more concrete. Me pointing out that this is a WIFOM argument is simply me clarifying that there is no substance to this read.

[superbowl9]

Stop giving her ideas Morning Tweet

[superbowl9]

Isis, Super Bowl, Tommy two times reads to me like the scum hood of Tommy’s accounts are correct. There’s no way they have 20 pages of content in the hood or that Isis and super bowl really used those first two points of attack on one another.

Make that 40 pages now...

[superbowl9]

That actually makes sense, I guess only scum would focus on hoods anyway. If you're lurking in the hood it's town indicative.

How do you figure?

I would say that the more information/interaction we have in the public square, that will only benefit town no? Scum can filter their own hood happenings (or lack of activity) to make their hood seem more townie. Also it's a LOT easier for two scum to trick one townie than 7. Only reason to keep important information in hoods is to troll, reaction test, or hide - which scum want to do.

If you remove the private hood chats from this setup, it would be harder for scum to win.

I think that at this point I'm TWTBAW. (Too Wolfy To Be A Wolf)

Unless that was your plan all along!?!?!?! /s

Sorry couldn't resist

[superbowl9]

Yeah Isis just posted an entire page of just "LALALA I CANT HEAR YOU" over and over again

[superbowl9]

Little did you know, however, that I had anticipated this response! I will be chuckling down at you from level 3 sipping my wine.

[superbowl9]

Ughk - how foolish! I failed to account for the positional variance! I've been had ToT

[superbowl9]

..... IS WHAT SOMEONE BENEATH MY CALIBER MIGHT SAY!!!! I'VE LOOPED AROUND TO LEVEL -1 THE ENTIRE TIME! HUAHUAHUA

[superbowl9]

Yes, you want as much info as possible. But the risk/reward of being manipulated doesn't seem worth it at all to me. Which game do you think scum would rather have: manipulate 1 townie in the nice privacy of a separate chat or convince 7 others that they're town and that both other hoods are scummier?

[superbowl9]

Like if your hood is truly town... all you've been doing is giving scum a great distraction from actually having to convince anyone, because they can just say your hood should be eliminated first due to lack of any info coming out from you. Would you trust me to not get manipulated by my hoodmates and then accurately report back to you everything that has happened?? And yall aren't even reporting anything back - it's anti-town

[superbowl9]

It's hard to believe your hood is 40 pages - are you saying that's actually true? Paraphrase pages 28, 33 and 38 if you're able to, quick?

Page 28 was a discussion over the best superbowl teams of all time - Isis naively believed in the 2019 Cheifs, but I was able to show her that the superbowl 1 Packers are actually the most dominant force of all time

33 - We had already moved on to cats vs. dogs at this point, I would say it was an equal fight

38 - Isis finally started scumhunting. She asked if me and Tommy were scum, but Tommy argued that this was a WIFOM. I had to make 8 straight posts explaining WIFOM, each several paragraphs long, so maybe this should count as 2 pages??

[superbowl9]

choosing to not speak in the main thread seems like a really bad plan for scum trying to win the game. or have i lost the WIFOM war?

It's a bad plan, unless we legitimize it with WIFOM!

[superbowl9]

Didn't we agree we're going to do this democratically because it gives us the best chance of winning? I mean if you don't want to do that sure we can't force you but... do you want to lower our win chances lmao?
Also not sure where you get the 1 reporter thing, I (we) want ALL yall to give us info, the more the better

[superbowl9]

I thought yall were 1? And turkey was 3?

[superbowl9]

Gotcha - in that case VOTE: Hood 2

[superbowl9]

Nah we're 1

[superbowl9]

I feel like if adorable or morning tweet were scum I would never be able to pick up on it - they're just too pure

[superbowl9]

Porquoi, monsieur?

I don't trust y'all one bit. I have no idea what's been going on in your PT and I don't expect you to tell us if one of us treestumps. I don't like our chances if y'all are one of the last two hoods. Also Galron felt quite scummy. Even if I tuck adorable away in town, the possibility of you two manipulating her is wayyyy too much for me.

[superbowl9]

Starting with Turkey, if I wasn't pretty sure my PT Pals weren't scum you would have my wrath right about now.

Why do you scumread them?

[superbowl9]

Starting with Turkey, if I wasn't pretty sure my PT Pals weren't scum you would have my wrath right about now.

Why do you scumread them?

Dr. Drew - continues posting

superbowl9 - Am i a joke to you ToT

[superbowl9]

Am I missing the flip somewhere? Y'all are very quick to assume day 2 started already...

i didn't actually think it was your hood gobble (ノ﹏ヽ)

I was playing along with Drew before he self-voted us to help us pick out which other hood it is after we stump. I was sort of gambiting by pretending to fully trust my mates but i kinda actually do. I wanted us to stump then to have Isis' hood stump

Hmm ok. Good luck getting anyone in the Isis hood to do anything protown

Such as stump with 8 days left to deadline lol???

[superbowl9]

Am I missing the flip somewhere? Y'all are very quick to assume day 2 started already...

Nothing will please me more than Gob's hood being scum, but I definitely don't read it that way - I've been calling your hood scum and Gob's hood town all game.

8 days? We don't have a deadline, no?

Pretty sure we do have a deadline - check the first page

[superbowl9]

Porquoi, monsieur?

I don't trust y'all one bit. I have no idea what's been going on in your PT and I don't expect you to tell us if one of us treestumps. I don't like our chances if y'all are one of the last two hoods. Also Galron felt quite scummy. Even if I tuck adorable away in town, the possibility of you two manipulating her is wayyyy too much for me.

Am I missing the flip somewhere? Y'all are very quick to assume day 2 started already...

i didn't actually think it was your hood gobble (ノ﹏ヽ)

I was playing along with Drew before he self-voted us to help us pick out which other hood it is after we stump. I was sort of gambiting by pretending to fully trust my mates but i kinda actually do. I wanted us to stump then to have Isis' hood stump

Hmm ok. Good luck getting anyone in the Isis hood to do anything protown

Such as stump with 8 days left to deadline lol???

So is this a slip that you know my hood is town? From the perspective you've been pushing lately, I just did the most pro town thing anyone could do in this game.

Auro, Adorable and Galron mostly agreed with me that there is something rotten in

Denmark

Isis/Superbowl/TTT.

No no I agree with your action, just not the timing of it. Why not wait until closer to deadline or confirm with the rest of us before self-vote? You're obviously town lmao but that doesn't make your action not anti-town

[superbowl9]

If it actually isn't turkey's hood, there is definitely a large chance it's my hood - we can figure it out when we get there tho

[superbowl9]

Your entire hood's reaction is still bothering me though, do you have some reason to assume we didn't hit scum or is this a scumtell?

[superbowl9]

None of my guesses involve Adorable being scum or my hoodmates being scum, so gobble self voting is a total "Oh no"

Okay, so it's more of a "mad gobbles did that" than "mad we didn't hit scum"

Still not sure if I buy this, I feel like your hood could be very manipulative - esp. if Auro is scum.

[superbowl9]

It would help if you'd come clean on your thread happenings, superbowl.

Honestly not so much has happened, we mostly have just thrown ideas/reactions from the main thread there, although my hoodmates have been MIA for a bit...

[superbowl9]

Super, please self hammer.

Seriously considering it

If I didn't townread Isis I might have by now - I understand how you feel now gobbles

[superbowl9]

I think MT as scum would try to prevent her hood from self-voting. Thus the only scumteam that makes sense to me from hood 2 is Drew+Auro.

269 just still reads to me as a scumslip though - do I think Auro+drew could manipulate MT into townreading them? Yes. Do I think it's more likely than Isis+Tommy? Not at the moment.

Morning tweet can you elaborate a little more on why you townread your hoodmates so much?

Your and Isis' descriptions of what happened in your hoods, as an answer to me - were they true?

LMAO come on man.... 40 pages? Also Isis directly contradicted me on my argument summary
310 is accurate - I can give you more details if you believe one of us is being manipulated

[superbowl9]

Morning tweet can you elaborate a little more on why you townread your hoodmates so much?

Waiting on this

[superbowl9]

He's literally my bestie

<3

[superbowl9]

Auro's demonstrative efforts to do have visually townish reactions all game looks very theatrical and has such a jerky progression that I think it's really, really unlikely he's town. Unfortunately I'm starting to think Drew is more likely the partner than Tweet which makes this pretty much an L.

I think MT as scum would try to prevent her hood from self-voting. Thus the only scumteam that makes sense to me from hood 2 is Drew+Auro.

269 just still reads to me as a scumslip though - do I think Auro+drew could manipulate MT into townreading them? Yes. Do I think it's more likely than Isis+Tommy? Not at the moment.

Morning tweet can you elaborate a little more on why you townread your hoodmates so much?

Your and Isis' descriptions of what happened in your hoods, as an answer to me - were they true?

LMAO come on man.... 40 pages? Also Isis directly contradicted me on my argument summary
310 is accurate - I can give you more details if you believe one of us is being manipulated

God damn they're fucking geniuses if they planned all this out. They would have had to somehow predict or get lucky that turkey would self vote, cause otherwise I'd have just selfvoted after Drew went back on his suspicions. Probably

Drew went all hyper paranoid on me, and then Auro at the start of the game. Auro and I were like "Okay whatever let's just all townread each other and see how the other hoods react. Then, after maybe a week we self vote". Drew didn't even go along with it lol i really would expect more cohesion if they were scum AT LEAST

Drew has consistently seemed like he was right about to pull the trigger. Auro has been like "Okay sure just wait a sec". I've been like "Okay sure just wait a sec" I completely threw out bothering to suspect my partners cause i assumed we'd be the first hood to go down

Not to mention we've shared many real feeling passive aggressive interactions (esp early) around our various gambits. I think in the latter half we were getting along pretty great though, we still were assuming we were going down though. Drew did end up being like "Don't assume my reads" or whatever one time when I speculated that he was gonna self vote soon. Maybe he was planning on going back on it. I will definitely spend some time looking into that

Drew and Auro also had huge dissonance when it came to which of the other hoods were scum-- Auro and I were pretty sure it was Isis' hood, Drew was pretty sure it was us but if it wasn't he wasn't quite digging the turkey.

Teams that involve me in them are way more plausible than Auro/Drew. But im not scum. So they have played me very hard if they are

Ty for this detail. Based on this game's experience with them I don't think that's out of either of their scum play ranges. Considering I scumread Auro most in this game that team is just as likely IMO as Isis/Tommy. The one thing that concerns me is Isis' meta scumread on Auro, trying to figure out if that's genuine or manipulative.

[superbowl9]

Yeah.. Paragon isn't...

i remember you being the head torturer/interrogator that game with paragon more throwing stones at me from the sidelines than anything

i cannot believe the number of times the rodent thing has followed me around-- i feel like it gets brought up in half my games somehow!

Woah you have a pet chinchilla? News to me

[superbowl9]

You guys should focus more on Turkey appeasement tbh, Isis hood.

I'd rather figure out the game first something you may have the luxury of not doing

[superbowl9]

Turkey the superbowl is always played on thanksgiving, therefore you should not vote for superbowl's hood to die.

Your hood has not given me very compelling reasons to not want your deaths.

Can you explain why you think hood 2 is town? Or is it just gut?

[superbowl9]

Heres Drew's progression with lots of paraphrasing

"Isis is my strongest TR"

"Maybe i should have went with your gimmick but i really have never trusted you two"

"Gun to my head if it werent our hood, I'd say the Turkey hood. it's a gutread"

He spends a while debating Turkey with auro. Then he decides to place some pressure on turkey to figure him out. He calls his own reasoning BS, and then ends up concluding turkey is town.

HERES THE CRITICAL BIT:

Morning: "Woo were in agreement that the bird is town. Wait, I guess that makes us your primary scumread again."

Auro: "Thats okay, we self vote then make Isis' hood self vote. I guess."

Drew: "Don't assume what im thinking"

Gobble hammers.

A bit later..

Drew asks Auro if he's an alt of Hectic. Says that if Auro says yes, he 100% won't self vote. I ask Drew what i have to do to stop him from self voting, and he replies that it depends on Auros answer. Auro says he isnt an alt of Hectic.

Drew says he's confused about Isis' behaviour if shes town. Drew says all his paranoia of us is gone.

A bit later he calls Tommy scum too

This brings up A LOT of red flags for me - Drew scumreads yall when it's convenient w/ the support of Auro, then 180s when it's convenient? What did he mean by don't assume what I'm thinking? He has NO paranoia (seemingly none of yall do - not a great sign). Also what was the gambit you and Auro were pushing?

[superbowl9]

I spent all my time buddying Auro lol, it's not a huge surprise Drew found us sus. But MAN I wish i could have seen what would have happened had turkey not self voted.

This right here is what makes me fos your hood
Also y'all have been acting like it's game over since the turkey stump

[superbowl9]

Which spoiler.....not scum.

Oh, well all you had to do is say so! Wrap it up folks

[superbowl9]

Oh my lord what if Isis is trying to buddy me into complacency

[superbowl9]

So which one of Auro/Morning am I scum with?

idk if I could ever scumread the batmom so it'd have to be you and Auro

[superbowl9]

So which one of Auro/Morning am I scum with?

idk if I could ever scumread the batmom so it'd have to be you and Auro

\
That's a weird reason not to scum read someone.

Would you scumread your own mother??

[superbowl9]

I knew the scum hood would redirect attention to the other hood.

They don't have to if the third hood self-stumps without warning

pedit: no more cookies baked for you Drew

[superbowl9]

I do not feel like Isis is really scumhunting. I don't think I have seen her give a solid reason for any of her stances. I think her reasoning is fake (like the contents of her hood).

Can you give me an example of this? I think there are valid reasons for Isis scum but painting her as the scummiest player alive rn seems like a stretch to me (ik you may not believe this, but it has been said many times)

[superbowl9]

Auro/Drew
Auro/Drew
Auro/Morning
Drew/Morning
Isis/superbowl

is the order of my teams. Regarding Isis and superbowl, it's less about thinking their interactions are very genuine in my hood (other than the 40 page 1v1 obv obviously), and more about how I townlean both of them individually. Why do people find Isis scummy?

Now THIS is a scummy post - have you ever scumread either of us? If so why/where the change

[superbowl9]

I was scumreading your hood anyway. I'm pretty sure I made a post in our hood declaring that we self and then order your hood to self.

This also makes 0 sense - why not just have us stump D1 if we're your top scumreads? I can think of 2 possible options:

1 you wanted to drum up town points for playing the self vote chicken game (which worked)
2 you figured scum is in 1 of our two hoods and wanted to self first just because it was easier

That second option reads quite passive/weak to me

Morning, Auro daring Drew to self-vote in-thread and in-hood is bad for him if he's scum and Drew's town, and it's also bad for him if he's town and thinks Drew is town. Even if you think Drew is likely to eventually self-vote anyway, daring him to instead of trying to convince his mind is anti-wincon.

Tommy actually brings up a good point (no bm intended lol) - if you're actually town you've been doing a very poor job at it (no bm part 2)

[superbowl9]

Starting with Turkey, if I wasn't pretty sure my PT Pals weren't scum you would have my wrath right about now.

Super, please self hammer.

Sunday at 8pm you were sure you had the scum hood, Monday at noon you flipped to our hood. Saying this is not a 180 is a lie. What happened between those times? One town hood was eliminated. Why did you jump from your own hood to ours within that time frame?

[superbowl9]

Also for your pedit i mean auro may have thought that scum is in either our hood or yours and believed you were going to self hammer, so felt that even if yall stumped first he’d just get us to stump day 2

[superbowl9]

Starting with Turkey, if I wasn't pretty sure my PT Pals weren't scum you would have my wrath right about now.

Super, please self hammer.

Sunday at 8pm you were sure you had the scum hood, Monday at noon you flipped to our hood. Saying this is not a 180 is a lie. What happened between those times? One town hood was eliminated. Why did you jump from your own hood to ours within that time frame?

My post was when I decided to pressure Turkey because he seemed different than previous games. He is the player I am most familiar so I pressured for a better read.

Remember when Morning said I wanted to give him pressure to suss out a read.....then she said I determined he was town? The little gambit that also included morning?

This is a misrep.......you are assuming my thinking and thinking why I did what I did.

Also I got look at the timing of 321 real quick brb.

Turkey is not the important part of the post - it highlights how you still scumread your town. Why would you scumreading your hood be a part of a gambit to pressure turkey?

[superbowl9]

It kinda sounds to me that if there's a conspiracy in your hood, it's you + one of them. Having one of you paranoia while the other scum "convinces" you not to self-vote sounds like smart theatre to get the other hood mate on board.

If you are town, I don't think you should be self-voting because their gambit seems really risky in that case. Unless they're going all out and trying to make you reconsider from their play alone but it's still real risky.

Let me think about this. Think about this let me.

They never made any attempt to 'convince' me to refrain from self voting.

Really sounds like you had this response ready to go no matter how I responded.

Also your gimmick account sucks and is annoying, so in addition to being scum it needs to be killed just on principle.

Yes it was after this post from Tommy.

Plus, and as I have stated before, I been feeling more towny about my hood for a bit at this point. Stop focusing on the 'when' of when I said 'my paranoia is gone'......it had been leaving for awhile.

So Tommy's post, and from PoE, it clearly was your hood(and I feel even stronger after Isis' weird questioning about a previous game of ours).

So this one post from Tommy changed your entire read of the game?? I'm focusing on the when and why because you claim you didn't do a 180. Saying "don't worry about the timing" is not very helpful lmao

[superbowl9]

Auro/Drew
Auro/Drew
Auro/Morning
Drew/Morning
Isis/superbowl

is the order of my teams. Regarding Isis and superbowl, it's less about thinking their interactions are very genuine in my hood (other than the 40 page 1v1 obv obviously), and more about how I townlean both of them individually. Why do people find Isis scummy?

Now THIS is a scummy post - have you ever scumread either of us? If so why/where the change

tommy townreads you two in that post ?

Yes, just like how Drew pulled a townread on your hood out of his lower orafice Tommy has done the same thing here

[superbowl9]

Auro/Drew
Auro/Drew
Auro/Morning
Drew/Morning
Isis/superbowl

is the order of my teams. Regarding Isis and superbowl, it's less about thinking their interactions are very genuine in my hood (other than the 40 page 1v1 obv obviously), and more about how I townlean both of them individually. Why do people find Isis scummy?

Now THIS is a scummy post - have you ever scumread either of us? If so why/where the change

tommy townreads you two in that post ?

I have been thinking Tommy is more likely the town in that hood, super has taken the baton from him.

Do you have any reasoning for this besides OMGUS? Your reads seem to change awfully quickly

[superbowl9]

In a sense, this game is faaar easier to solve and manage than a normal game because of the constraint of both scum being in a hood. What went down in my hood convinced me that mine was town (and if we were gonna self it wouldn't even matter anyway) and Gobbles obvtowned very quickly while you were being scummy. Adorbs also towntold very quickly, + I'm sure Gob also townread them

This is kind of what I was trying to highlight earlier but I got distracted, this line of reasoning seems weak to me. I don't think it's *necessarily* AI, but it does show me that if you're town you've not been doing a good job.

[superbowl9]

Sorry for the multiposts I should be able to keep up with the game more over the weekend

[superbowl9]

I saw it so weird how you get in an argument with superbowl

Lol there was no 40 page argument

[superbowl9]

I saw it so weird how you get in an argument with superbowl, asking pointless questions and now all of a sudden you are town reading each other out of the blue.

that was probably at least supposed to be a gambit, I think - we still haven't gotten an accurate picture of what really went on in their hood, right?

Apparently it was a gambit, I thought we were just trolling the whole time

If there's anything else you want to know about what's happened in our hood, please ask! But like I said we haven't conversed that much in there, it's mostly just us throwing ideas about reads/gamestate off each other

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Drew you are quite slippery with very direct questions (which is ironic as you seemed annoyed when Isis did exactly that to you )

I asked you quite simply:

when and why did your paranoia go from self-hammering to a 100% townread on your hood.

If you believe that there was no one specific moment - that's okay. You can't tell me the time frame - start/end/key moments? You still have not answered the why part of this question. You just keep saying I'm misrepping or don't worry about the timing. This should not be a hard question to answer if this paranoia was the defining feature of your play Day 1.

Also, you ignored my 231. Still heartbroken ToT

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No i meant your pt pals

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No i meant your pt pals

Oh misread that, I initially scum read them because they seemed to just immediately trust one another and I didn't fully get what there plan was in regards to their 'gambit'. As I thought about it, and I had threatened multiple times early on to self hammer to which Auro was perfectly ok with, and backed off wanting to self hammer because it still was a bit early and I couldn't see scum being perfectly fine with me doing it(I even said at least once that I was prepared to do it right then). Had a little back and forth with Auro(some paranoia was still there, but started to think my issues I was having with him were posting style. I was coming around on them as town so I wanted to focus more on the other hoods, and specifically the player I have the most experience with, Turkey. I mentioned how he seemed off and wanted to put some pressure on him to give me a better read one way or another, Morning even agreed to help. Felt pretty good about Turkey as town(and already felt pretty good as Adorable as town as well)..........then Turkey self hammers.

So then with me feeling mainly good with my hood as all town, D2 starts. Now, I had another game just end that angered the hell out of me(specifically one player), I even posted in the hood how I was ready to crack skulls in this game, that's when my little interaction with Tommy happened. I had said that no one was coercing me to not self vote, Auro especially was fine with it, but Tommy's response wsas like he didn't even read what I said and tried to act like I was being manipulated by my hood mates. I didn't see any town motivation there, and coupled with my trusting of my hood mates even more I posted in the hood that my paranoia of them was all but gone. This has been solidified by Isis saying I am doing scummy things but not actually explaining, even when directly asked, what said scummy things are.

I guess I could have elaborated earlier lol.

TY! This is starting to make sense to me now. FMPOV though, I am quite paranoid of yall trusting each other this much as well. I think you would understand that - what is the % chance that you think your hood is scum?

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@MT it kind of feels like your entire hood's play has been lined up against us since Day 2 - that's what makes me suspicious.

Also you seem very convinced by Drew's self-vote threat, but what if you think about it this way: until he actually self-votes, any posturing that goes on is pretty meaningless. If gobbles' self-hammer hadn't happened, maybe he would have just "progressed" to scumreading our hood, then gobbles'?

That's kind of the point of a gambit, yes it may have been tough faking a flip in their reads, but if it works it puts up a very strong illusion of genuineness, especially with Turkey's self-hammer, which nobody could have predicted. Oh wait.

Knowing Turkey, really didn't surprise me that he did what he did

It seems to me like most of the case for your hood as town comes from this one action of threatening self-hammer by Drew. Doesn't that worry y'all even a little bit??

[superbowl9]

So us not blockvoting makes you suspect us more??

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the raw stats that such selfvotes slightly skew scum.

Interested in this, do you have a source or just personal experience?

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The hoods aren't a hivemind - each of us want different things. Your interests all lining up for nearly 100% of this game is a little bit sus.

But as far as the second part of that, Gobbles' stump takes away the need for any type of progression to occur. If our hood had stumped, Drew and Auro have to find some way to progress to Turkey's hood. If gobbles stumps, then we're where we are right now. Do you think they would not go for this risk/reward?

[superbowl9]

the raw stats that such selfvotes slightly skew scum.

Interested in this, do you have a source or just personal experience?

Hearsay guesstimates from the early 201x's, also my own tally but I value the hearsay guesstimates more because sample size is king.

Based on my own experience, the trend weakens in validity as you move closer to the zero information stage (which makes sense) or into a fully developed game (which doesn't necessarily make sense to me).
But no, I definitely haven't been scientific at all.

Gotcha, interesting that it trends this way late into games. TMYK

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I don't think gobbles hood had the votes to stump?

Yeah our hood chat in actuality is 4 pgs of probly like 1/3 jokes, 1/3 bouncing strats/reads off each other, 1/3 trying to sort the hood. At first I asked if Tommy was reaction testing after he said we were arguing, but Isis said we were just lulzing. Then at some point down the road it just became a sort of gambit I guess? I kind of tried to make it obvious that we were joking, but yall just kept buying it which I admit was actually hilarious

I can explain with more detail if you have questions about stuff or want me to get into more specifics

[superbowl9]

I'm convinced Isis is scum. She scum reads me because of meta but there is no meta read on me.

Don't worry I will never scumread you as long as you have that pfp

[superbowl9]

Tommy and I start using spoiler= tags and asking Tommy not to open them so we can make fun of football and also do neighbor-scumhunt-stuff

SO THIS IS WHAT YOU WERE UP TO LISTEN HERE

[superbowl9]

So wait what were you guys trying to gain from it?

That's what I'm still a little bit confused about, as for me I was just trolling the whole time. Not sure about the others though

[superbowl9]

Tommy and I start using spoiler= tags and asking Tommy not to open them so we can make fun of football and also do neighbor-scumhunt-stuff

SO THIS IS WHAT YOU WERE UP TO LISTEN HERE

Scum or not, I got your back super.......don't make fun of football.

A bond of brotherhood

[superbowl9]

It's not just the want of self-vote, but also the confidence in townreading Gob's hood and continuous expressed scumreads on Isis hood both in PT and in the main thread.

Okay, suppose Gob didn't self vote... We get Isis' hood to self and it flips town. Now what? We have to fake a trajectory to start paranoia'ing on Gob now? And hope that Isis suddenly doesn't find me open wolfing scum and instead asks Gob to?

This argument was never convincing to me. "Oh our gambit has this downside if it doesn't work!" Yeah, that's kind of the point of a gambit no?
Also we are acting as if having to fake one reads progression is impossible for scum to do - I think Auro and Drew are good enough players to figure out a way to get that done lol.

[superbowl9]

So wait what were you guys trying to gain from it?

That's what I'm still a little bit confused about, as for me I was just trolling the whole time. Not sure about the others though

So it's kinda weird Isis calls you obvtown and then makes the most blatant evasion when I ask her to explain, no?

She might be trying to buddy me

[superbowl9]

Townreading your own hood and an adjacent hood in the hopes they randomly self vote or else you lose the game is probably a pretty low success rate gambit. id be surprised if that went just how they drew it up.

It would have made more sense to be more ambiguous about the gobble hood. but even then, if we had all decided we were town based off of Drews actions then had Isis' hood selfvote, it would have made me incredibly suspicious

Here's how the gambit would go in my head:

-Auro says hey Drew let's try to pretend self-vote for townpoints

-Drew says love it I'll pretend to be super paranoid, if it gets too much you do something town and I'll start townreading us

-Auro+Drew decide to go for our hood -> gobbles hood to stump

-They need some reason to fos our hood over turkey, so they do some reaction test or whatever to townread turkey - note:

Spoiler:

if you only townread 1 person in the hood, you can always either:
1 claim the other two are scum partners
2 cast doubt upon your own townread by claiming you have 1 strong scumread in the hood, so oops guess my townread was wrong. This also works for townreading any 2 hood members

-Auro+Drew see that Tommy and I are fosing Turkey hood, and MT also votes them for activity. This could be enough support to get turkey hood to stump first - a quite favorable outcome for them. If they can try to toe the line of putting a bit of pressure on turkey hood while keeping a townread, this becomes the new plan.

-Turkey self-hammers, making their job much easier. Now all they have to do is play up the implausibility of their gambit and continue pushing us while riding their town points to victory (welcome to current gamestate).


Please tell me which part of this is unreasonable or "such poor strategy"??

[superbowl9]

It fails because there's no scenario where Drew and I can convincingly fake a scumread on Gob's hood.

For the gambit to work, we need other town to get Gob hood to stump first, which sounds When Isis has been calling me obv wolf all game long

Or we need someone in Gob's hood to self-vote

Outside of these two scenarios we're pretty much effed. It's a high risk gambit that entirely relies on town doing unlikely stuff, leaving us no room for manipulative play.

Hence, poor strategy as scum.

#1 is just not true, you really think you're not a good enough player to come up with a reason to flip a read lol?

You can either have gob's hood stump first, which was doable with 3 votes on them already (with Isis voting yall and you + drew voting us, that's a majority), or have us stump then use your new townpoints to townread yourselves and find some reason to scumread turkey hood. Both options seem very doable to me, and you can even try plan 1 using plan 2 as a backup. The only thing limiting this is the believability of you switching 1 read.

You probably know all of this already though

[superbowl9]

Ok, my research is complete. That episode of Community features a split into six timelines. In the timeline in which that image of Troy holding the pizzas appears, we never get to see the pizzas. However, the timelines do not split until after the pizzas are already in the deliveryman's hands, so we know the toppings of the pizzas are the same in all six timelines.
In the timeline in which Pierce retrieves the pizzas, we get to view Abed taking a cheese slice, and Troy and Britta each taking a slice that is a bit difficult to make out but seems to be topped with mushrooms and sausage bits. Abed is Muslim, so it seems likely that the sausage bits are pork, which is why the pizza is half and half. Both of these slices only come from the topmost box.

In the timeline in which Abed (I think it was Abed), retrieves the pizzas, Abed sets the pizza boxes down and immediately and confidently thrusts the topmost box open and begins reaching immediately. We can only see the mushroom sausage half, but he reaches to the other half to retrieve a cheese slice that he brings to his mouth.

A pizza man rarely clarifies which pizzas are which, so the fact that Abed does not peek at the box first to ensure it has slices appropriate for him to eat suggests it's most likely that all three pizzas are identical. At a minimum, each pizza must have a cheese half or a half that comports with Abed's religious beliefs, due to this show of confidence.

That is the most I can deduce about the flavor of the pizzas.

LMAO this is a hall of fame post

[superbowl9]

Approximately 22% so

The math works out at 25% so this is like, barely better than random

This is incorrect. It's actually a 50% chance - either it happens or it doesn't.

[superbowl9]

We’ve come full circle lmaooo

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Can we just get with the voting here?

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The anime avatars will reign supreme sooner or later Drew

[superbowl9]

I cleaned my room today - beat that!

(it was done very patriotically though)

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GG yall

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Rt

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I slipped when I stole that pagetop

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Isis, I do have to say that sometimes you are hard to follow and tough to to read, but I do enjoy playing with you.

And tbh, I enjoyed everyone here.....you all are good people.

I am at the 'hug everyone and tell them how much you love them' beer.

Cheers to this

[superbowl9]

Yeah it was fun conspiring with you tommy, we are all hectic alts in drew’s heart <3

[superbowl9]

Drew's a paranoid sob.

Read this as snob and was like damn chill galron