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That's any game where the players are insecure. Don't let that poison you.
In post 299, Glitch wrote:Why with all this to go on would we still be in RVS?
Simple - a mason claim is self-resolving: Truth should die tonight or get lynched tomorrow. I'm not fond of people hijacking my attention as a form of distraction. There are still 11 other people that I have to go through.
In post 299, Glitch wrote:I'm just gonna say Looker really bugs me with the very little contribution he has. There's nothing good he contributed here.
Would you prefer an overexaggeration of word vomit that no one's going to read? Please challenge my thoughts: With what that I've presented do you disagree? Are you accusing me of playing it safe with my first two posts of the game...? Your expectations are unclear.
I think it'd be easier if you just voted me instead of pretending to scumhunt.
In post 445, GuiltyLion wrote:here's my "taking a look at the whole game" reads for Norwegian:
Townies: CSF, Nauci, Lickety, Candy Shop
don't feel like voting today but maybe a scum: Looker, osuka
has not played the game yet: rozyroz
self-resolving: Truth
could see myself voting today: mavsfan, glitch
one of these two is scum: Norway, popopopopoppopopoopp
p-edit: What am I misdirecting away from? I replied directly to the latest two people that voted me
Most informational flip: GuiltyLion
Secondary options: LicketyQuickety / NorwegianboyEE
Gray Area/Reasons I'm not ready to end the day: Glitch / Candy Shop / Mavsfan / Cat Scratch Fever /
rozyroz
NDMath / Osuka
Comfortable with delaying inspection: Truth / popopopo / Nauci
In post 502, Truth wrote:Should we quickly lynch popopopopopopopopo and go into night? I don't we'll get a better suspect than this and it may be good to go to the night without giving mafia any more information.
I think it'd be easier if you just voted me instead of pretending to scumhunt.
butterfly meme
is this distancing?
In post 492, Looker wrote:
Most informational flip: GuiltyLion
Secondary options: LicketyQuickety / NorwegianboyEE
Gray Area/Reasons I'm not ready to end the day: Glitch / Candy Shop / Mavsfan / Cat Scratch Fever /
rozyroz
NDMath / Osuka
Comfortable with delaying inspection: Truth / popopopo / Nauci
I feel like {Glitch | Candy Shop | Mavsfan | Cat Scratch Fever |
rozyroz
NDMath | Osuka} are the safe ones.
VOTE: GuiltyLion How many people on your wagon are scum?
it's really odd that Looker votes me here on the basis of being the "most informational flip", when there's an equally juicy popopopopo wagon forming, and he was
just
shading popopopopo as scum in the same post. The vote doesn't align with the projected mindset
I think it's interesting that distancing/bussing is on your mind when you and popopo are voting each other.
Define "juicy".
How was I shading popopo as scum as opposed to lazy/someone who's only pretending to scumhunt?
In post 536, popopopopopopo wrote:This post claiming issues with my vote is leaving out the VITAL fact that I am norwe's vote slave. In doing that, he completely misrepresented my supposed reasoning for switching votes. The push feels fake and based off a misrep. Norwe was cranking the pressure up pretty hard my man guilty needed a release.
Do you really feel telegraphed sheeping is enough to prove you're town? If you were to flip town, would you want us to lynch GuiltyLion next?
In post 544, Looker wrote:Do you really feel telegraphed sheeping is enough to prove you're town? If you were to flip town, would you want us to lynch GuiltyLion next?
when did i suggest it proves that im town? all i said was his vote left out the KEY fact that i am norwes vote slave atm, which make the dissonance suggested in his accusation obviously false.
My question is how long will this shtick go on? "Norway told me" isn't going to be a valid excuse.
In post 619, Truth wrote:Maybe a valid situation for a normal lynch could be done by forming multiple bandwagons and seeing how people will vote between them. I am personally happy with my vote on po (shortening the name now).
How could you form multiple bandwagons if you never move your vote? Is the intent to have others form multiple bandwagons for you?
It looks like you stopped because Norway told you. I don't know what you mean by GL being "ok" - do you think he's scum or not?
In post 680, popopopopopopo wrote:after sleeping on it and the last back and forth im not as confident on the GL/cat scratch scumteam. Scratch is scummy independently though, his early play was intentionally inoffensive and his hop on my wagon was very bad.
I don't get why you would have to do damage control on your GL bus if you disguised it effectively with a Norway sheep.
Was I not clear enough when I mentioned that popopo could be lazy the first time? Has anyone else ever encountered lazy town players?
If you suspect someone of being scum, would you trust their self-meta?
I don't know if "I'm going to try to drop the suspicion for now and try to solve for scums outside of you" is meant to mean "I think you're scum and I'm going to find your partners" or "I don't know what you are, but I'm going to ignore you for the rest of the day".
I also don't know how one person (Player A) scumreading another (Player B) could give them (Player A) a blindspot.
In post 714, Truth wrote:I don't understand how you can believe that. What reasons do you have for it? I have been trying to find mafia and I want a doctor to heal me so that I'm not killed tonight.
If you don't die tonight, are we expected to believe that a Doctor healed you?
In post 860, Nauci wrote:@looker you seem to have stopped interesting with GL and have been suspecting other players since your vote. Has your read on him changed since then, or is he still your top scum read?
In post 924, LicketyQuickety wrote:P-Edit: Looker just made a very bizarre post and I really have not the slightest clue what to think of it. I don't even really TR it for it being weird. It's just strange and IDK what on earth he is thinking with those percentage points for who to lynch. Like did he legit do math for this game or is he just Scum making up percentages out of thin air. I really don't know.
@Looker: what are those percentage points based on?
How else am I supposed to transparently express my lynch readiness without wasting a bunch of words on subjective adjectives? I feel I took the most straightforward approach.
I disagree with NorwegianboyEE's assessment that I'm "weird"
"Cryptic nonsense" is an insult. Also, I would ask Norway to identify whose logic he feels is definitive. I feel ignorance is the very essence of Mafia, and I question where Norway would get such confidence to feel differently. Especially with their W-L record.
I don't get what Truth likes about Candy Shop. I'm unsure regarding his mavsfan logic as well, but I still feel the slot is self-resolving.
This self-resolving nature is why he was at 1%, not because I was "going with the flow".
In post 860, Nauci wrote:@looker you seem to have stopped interesting with GL and have been suspecting other players since your vote. Has your read on him changed since then, or is he still your top scum read?
my husband probably broke his foot yesterday so rl is busy right now
Same (with regard to being busy). It sometimes feels like posting on here is a chore.
why do you still wanna lynch gl so much? even if you think he's scummy, aren't there better slots to lynch in terms of both scum probability and flip information?
I think the percentages debunk your "so much" modifier. I'm relying heavily on active use of the remaining 6 days. If I thought the answer to your second question was "yes", I would be doing that. Why are you defending GuiltyLion when you're not voting anyone yourself?
Can anyone else spot the hypocrisy of NorwegianboyEE accusing me of being cryptically nonsensical but then calling me a dick when I explain? He also deflected, but that could be personality-based as opposed to AI. I also don't see how bringing up a W-L record could be "not nice", especially when it's "been considerably good lately".
It would make sense to me if there was 2 mafia from po going down, and 1 in the top 6.
So osuka and po and Looker for example. I think mafia usually say less and don't put themselves in the limelight but usually they need a leader. If I'm wrong, it could instead be Nauci and Glitch and mavsfan for example.
But how do you take into account players that have low post-counts throughout all games? Do people who don't spam roll scum in every game? Does having a life and responsibilities make me permanent mafia?
I don't think town-telling or town "spewing" is possible without mechanical info. I'm coming to believe it's just a buzzword for justifying paranoia.
I think I have a dilemma: The people I "townread" (for lack of a better term) most all have cats in their avatar (Nauci, CSF, Truth). And the person I want to lynch most (GuiltyLion) has a
In post 1672, popopopopopopo wrote:I am the vig I shot cat scratch. I knew it was a non legit guilty because I am town, so I fake claimed vt because I knew its a fake guilty. I didnt consider gunsmith in that decision and that's me being dumb.
In post 1743, Truth wrote:Because I am town, Blair! Please don't shoot me if you're the vigilante. Does my buddy really need to prove this to be the case?
Was this a rhetorical question?
In post 1743, Truth wrote:Dunnstral's plan where we let the vigilante shoot po if he's lying seems like a good idea.
But who else should be lynch today instead? osuka and po were my main suspects.
Choose between
Candy Shop
Blair and
mavsfan41
Dunnstral.
In post 1745, Truth wrote:Could you explain what you mean by this please? Is it because he said po instead of Truth there?
VOTE: No one
What is the purpose of this? Why do you consistently feel No Lynches are a pro-town approach?
In post 1753, Truth wrote:That's a lot of questions, Glitch. I'll try answering the one about if I think po is mafia.
I think po is most likely mafia but he may be town. If he is town, then it would be really bad if he shot me with his vigilante. That is why I asked the vigilante whoever they are not to shoot me.
Blair ignored my question and I don't like this. I think mafia sometimes dodge questions that are hard to answer.
Why didn't you answer all of Glitch's questions?
Why are you trying to deflect to Blair to do what you just did?
I don't trust popopo or Blair, so following a plan they've proposed doesn't work for me.
I don't know which major wagons popopo is referring to. Also, how could town being wagoned point to an inactive scumteam?
In post 1850, Looker wrote:I don't understand Dunnstral's request to self-meta. When I'm scum I'm scum and when I'm town I'm town.
Your playstyle in this game is similar to our last game I saw you in, where you were mafia
Looker, you ask why I'm wondering about this, right? I can't differentiate your current play from the game you were mafia in.
What I'm saying to you is that, until you say "I've looked at games where you were town and games where you were scum, and this game most closely resembles the games wherein you were scum", I don't find your observation useful.
In post 1880, Glitch wrote:Scum knew they weren't on Blair's radar so they let her live to kill off more town. Blair isn't a logical target for scum until she starts to get on their trail.
That just means we need to dive deep into some back pages and make sure we nail it right because this next lynch can easily land us in some rough town/scum ratios.
Need to go back and re-read some previous content. I have friends over right now but will get on this later tonight.
So, by this logic, should we flip who Blair thinks is town?
In post 1760, Glitch wrote:
If you're actually a mason you wouldn't even think of outing your partner unless you absolutely had to. But I think it's clear that if you have a partner it's probably scum. And if you out your partner and we lynch you thinking you're both scum and we're wrong, then at least you're PL'd and we'll confirm your mason buddy.
VOTE: Truth
In post 717, Nauci wrote:Glitch, Truth is definitely not making it near LYLO so why don't you just focus on everybody else for now?
In post 421, Looker wrote:Simple - a mason claim is self-resolving: Truth should die tonight or get lynched tomorrow. I'm not fond of people hijacking my attention as a form of distraction. There are still 11 other people that I have to go through.
In post 299, Glitch wrote:
If it's a neighborhood it must strictly be with candyshop/blair because that's the only way it hasn't been outed yet.
So he's either mason or mafia. He isn't be the hang today, so I'm not gonna give further comment until it's a day we could realistically hang him
I believe the above posts indicate that the players are not masons with Truth.
Blair is the vig, I doubt she's a mason
I'm not a mason.
Truth is lying about his claim.
Blair is claiming vig with no counterclaims in a closed setup. It's not mechanically confirmed, but I can let it slide.
Truth claimed mason with no buddy to back him up and wasn't on the popopo wagon. Who is Truth's scumpartner? If I'm already voting Nauci, why wouldn't he jump on the wagon?
I have to take it that it's group consensus that Norway was killed by scum and LicketyQuick by vig?
If Blair thought I was being inauthentic, why didn't she call me out 6-7 pages ago?
I find it suspicious how Nauci is avoiding Truth. If Blair's not scum, then that moves Dunnstral up for me.
I don't really enjoy the confusion, but we'll see what happens.
Spoiler:
41% Nauci | 25% Truth | 16% Blair or Dunnstral | 14% Glitch | 4% NDMath
: Continuously questions and pushes against popo, but not with remarkable strength. Only votes for popo once there's actual confirmation from Norway on a guilty read. Could be genuine town -- could be scum bussing because he has to in order to not be SR'd.
I think it'd be more accurate to say I voted him my first post of the day. And, in the interest of challenging your survivalism, what would questions and pushes of "remarkable strength" look like to you? Beyond voting, I mean.
In post 1928, Looker wrote:
I don't really enjoy the confusion, but we'll see what happens.
Spoiler:
41% Nauci | 25% Truth | 16% Blair or Dunnstral | 14% Glitch | 4% NDMath
Why 4% NDMath? Why 41% Nauci?
Why not vote Truth? Why not vote Nauci?
See how easy that is, to just throw "why" in front of some syllables? Do you disagree with who I want to flip? (Because I disagree with you trying to flip someone who hasn't been on any of the end-of-day wagons despite Nauci flipping osuka but not popopo.)
I like the look of 1944 from the parts I've skimmed so far and I've been thinking this lurking is his scum meta
I think the last few posts by Truth where he's trying to really sell there being a mason who thinks differently from paints a bad picture; Blair is still alive to get nightkilled so I don't get what he would be thinking if he was town, and he only claimed under pressure today
I can't quite put my finger on it, but I kind of hate this post.
*throws up hands*
I'll be honest, I haven't read most of the game. I like/respect Glitch's wall posts and cases, and I was suspecting NDMath due to having played a scum game with him where he very much lurked it out in the main thread
You haven't read most of the game, but you've read enough to say that my posts look like scum posts?
In post 1960, Dunnstral wrote:I've been asking Looker for more, I brought up Truth's claim not making sense with the way other players were treating them, and I'm not voting NDMath
You
are
voting NDMath. And asking me for what? You say "more", but you have no idea what you're looking for - I think you just want to look busy so that you can demonize what you perceive to be low activity. (Despite not even reading what people
I don't know what methods Blair uses to sort - it can't be VCA or she'd be done by now. And I'm not going to manufacture verbose bullshit just to make her happy.
And obviously Nauci wishes I was the policy vig, because I can see how scummy he looks today. He doesn't even say he thinks I'm scum.
: Continuously questions and pushes against popo, but not with remarkable strength. Only votes for popo once there's actual confirmation from Norway on a guilty read. Could be genuine town -- could be scum bussing because he has to in order to not be SR'd.
I think it'd be more accurate to say I voted him my first post of the day. And, in the interest of challenging your survivalism, what would questions and pushes of "remarkable strength" look like to you? Beyond voting, I mean.
The purpose in pointing out the lack of strength in your peppered questions to popo throughout the game is not something I think is AI and makes you scummy. The reason I brought it up is because, as we look back over your interactions with popo, I can read them as if you're town and I can read them as if you're scum and they all make sense either way. It doesn't indicate anything to me about your alignment and I was hoping to go back and see that it pointed to some town vibes for you. 492, 544, 620, 681, 1502. Those interactions with popo which I was hoping would help steer us in a clearer direction regarding your alignment, do not do so. The only post that you have that even mildly suggests that you're not on a team with popo is 922. Your percentage breakdown of who you would like to lynch is objectively townie because it leaves no room to hide or ignore every player, which is definitely townie. And in 922 you've got popo pretty high up there. Scum could do this as well but it wasn't necessary for you to SR him that high up at that point and that's interesting.
I wasn't asking if you thought it was scummy, I was asking what 'questions' and 'pushes' of "remarkable strength" look like to you. Because I'm not sure you're not just saying things to make you look better.
In post 1970, Looker wrote:37% Nauci | 25% Truth | 17% Blair/Dunnstral | 12% Glitch | 9% NDMath
Can we revisit why you're at 25% on Truth? In what ways do you feel that Truth's relationship with popo is scum indicative?
"Re-visiting" implies we've visited something before. Also, I never said anything about Truth's 'relationship' with Popo.
In post 1978, Glitch wrote:I would be interested in hearing why Nauci is your strongest SR, and for some reason I'm just now realizing your point you made earlier that she was on the osuka wagon but not on the popo wagon. I'm want to dive into that slot a little more.
It irritates me that you're answering your own question with information I've already provided.
In post 1970, Looker wrote:And obviously Nauci wishes I was the policy vig, because I can see how scummy he looks today. He doesn't even say he thinks I'm scum.
Can you expound on this more, particularly the policy vig part?
What is your actual question?
In post 1979, Dunnstral wrote:Wow, you guys all turned on me fast. Obviously there's scum in that group of players. Nauci and NDMath had the worst votes, though Nauci unvoted after NDMath did.
Are you saying a lack of conviction makes someone more town, or that scum could avoid the scrutiny of being on a town quickflip? Stop OMGUSing and vote Nauci with me.
In post 1970, Looker wrote:(Because I disagree with you trying to flip someone who hasn't been on any of the end-of-day wagons despite Nauci flipping osuka but not popopo.)
I don't think NDMath not being on end of day wagons is a strong reason to townread them
Interesting direction - you're leaving out that Nauci wagoned town but not scum. You're also saying "NDMath isn't town" as opposed to "Nauci isn't scum".
In post 1979, Dunnstral wrote:Chill out, when I started posting I was still getting a feel for the game and then the popopo stuff happened and I got sidetracked talking about that. Today I'm examining everyone with a smaller pool of players
This is my response to that
Mafia Vigilante is not a normal role and SK isn't in minis, so Blair must be town vig
Wrong answer.
I have
intent to hammer
on Dunnstral. I'd really like to hear Lookers thoughts on why he prefers Truth or Nauci over Dunnstral at this point.
Up until you irritating me and this flash wagon, my expectation was always for Blair to vig Dunnstral. At this point now, though, I'd rather she kill one of the surviving cats.
Does anyone have any backstory on Truth? Is he a child (as in underage)? Is he ESL? None of what he's saying is making sense to me.
In post 2026, Looker wrote:I wasn't asking if you thought it was scummy, I was asking what 'questions' and 'pushes' of "remarkable strength" look like to you. Because I'm not sure you're not just saying things to make you look better.
I've tried to up my game this time a lot because in past games I have been voted off for playing poorly and because my scum hunting sucks. I read up on how to be a good scum hunter on the wiki and this is one of the main points that has stuck with me:
Ignore other players' inquiries if their questions don't move you closer to lynching your target player. Take things further. Get an emotional reaction out of your victim by heavily accusing them of scum backed by whatever evidence you have.
It should be 50% evidence, 50% accusation.
You should make it clear to your suspect that you will never change your mind about them, and you will do anything to get them lynched, every day, every page, every damn post. This will work to your advantage. Keep the ball on your court, rob the scum of their dominance and place them in a frame of survival. This way, you are exploiting the maximum bussing potential of a scumteam.
This is something I've been working hard on in this game as I try to improve, and because of that, it's something that I've also been watching how others approach. It makes sense why it's pro-town -- it gets results, it creates content, it exposes vulnerabilities. Basically the essence is... push people hard. Use evidence and use accusation. I haven't seen much of the latter in your posts; and I'm not saying that that makes your posts poor quality. I enjoy reading your posts and I like how organized and systematized you are in writing them, and I think you are very observant and address important points. But I don't see many accusations and I don't see a lot of pushing. I just see a lot of poking around and digging, which, like I said, is good. But to my answer to your question: when I said I didn't see a lot of strength to your pushes, that's what I was talking about. Rather than push with accusations and using your vote with a case to sway others and form more pressure, it seemed that all the votes you've cast this game aren't accompanied by much of a case at all.
How many games have you played with ABR where his methods have been effective?
You're also avoiding my request - give me an example of a 'hard push'.
And I get that you thought "Man, I suck at mafia; I should get some help", but I don't feel that way, and I'm not going to manufacture faux aggression to impress some guy who takes advice from ABR. He doesn't really seem to enjoy the games I've seen him play.
Also, I stand by my votes and the way that I made them.
In post 2070, Glitch wrote:To answer an example of a hard push -- I have tried multiple games to do this. My Second Push on Cat Scratch, my Push on Truth before he said the miller mason claim was false, and my Push on NDmath are examples of where I have tried hard to incorporate solid cases I have considered a hard push. I understand what you're saying, though, about not manufacturing faux aggression and I have never played or known anything about the author of that article -- I just thought it was widely accepted from being on the wiki. I get what you're saying though and am gonna try to adjust my analyses accordingly.
I'm not trying to get you to change your playstyle; I just felt it was necessary to defend my own. And, as far as the 'hard pushes', I was just trying to make sure I didn't miss anything, because you said I provided evidence but not accusation, and I wanted to see what that looked like to you. Based on what you've presented me, it looks like extra words and ad hominem. I'm curious, though; do you feel you've been getting these hard pushes and accusations from Nauci? You're saying that Nauci "clearly SR's Truth", but why do you feel this isn't backed up with a vote?
In post 2071, Blair wrote:Albert B. Rampage's tactics are not widely accepted, despite being on the wiki.
(Faux aggression is great, though, if you have the chutzpah to pull it off)
I guess that's my learning point today. I'll release my adherence to the article then and look forward to a post-game discussion where maybe I can get some pointers from the active and skilled players here.
Do I have to look back at your old games to see if you're actually as bad as you're saying you are? That this isn't some kind of a gimmick?
Aren't Nauci and Dunnstral both pushing NDMath? How confident are you that one of them is bussing? Which one is more likely to be a bus and why?
This is probably going to annoy you and Looker once again. I promise I don't pull out the wiki like a handbook manual but there have been a few things guiding my play, and this is one of them. xD
I'm not annoyed by your reliance on your How To Town book.
I feel she's pseudo-distancing with Truth - she says she thinks he's scum, but she doesn't look like she's trying to flip him. She looks like she's hedging her bets on no one forming a wagon on him. If they do, she gets to jump on, saying "Well I suspected him the whole time".
Blair's lying - I interact with everybody. Not everyone squats over their phone all day, looking at a fucking mafia thread. I don't know what these expectations are that I'm not meeting.
So Blair thinks I avoided mislynching Osuka, but bussed popopo?
And, depending on who she "vigged", she agreed with either my or Glitch's suspicions. I suspected GuiltyLion, Glitch suspected Cat Scratch Fever. The double standard isn't making sense to me.
I question whether Nauci coached Truth in the scum PT, because her Post 2112 resembles Truth's Post 619, where he urged other people to start bandwagons that he was not going to be a part of.
In post 2122, Dunnstral wrote:Looker, there are no mafia vigilantes in normal queue games - it's not a role combination that can exist
There can also be no serial killers in mini normals
It's confirmed that the extra killing power came from town
Do you still feel Nauci is above suspicion despite her doing what I'd predicted she'd do? (Waiting to push Truth until someone forced her to) She naked voted a minute after you and then tried to offer a soft excuse for what Truth posted.
It's weird because not only does Nauci resort to insults, but she's keeping them vague so that we can't see how objectively inaccurate they are.
I feel she's pseudo-distancing with Truth - she says she thinks he's scum, but she doesn't look like she's trying to flip him. She looks like she's hedging her bets on no one forming a wagon on him. If they do, she gets to jump on, saying "Well I suspected him the whole time".
Blair's lying - I interact with everybody. Not everyone squats over their phone all day, looking at a fucking mafia thread. I don't know what these expectations are that I'm not meeting.
So Blair thinks I avoided mislynching Osuka, but bussed popopo?
And, depending on who she "vigged", she agreed with either my or Glitch's suspicions. I suspected GuiltyLion, Glitch suspected Cat Scratch Fever. The double standard isn't making sense to me.
I question whether Nauci coached Truth in the scum PT, because her Post 2112 resembles Truth's Post 619, where he urged other people to start bandwagons that he was not going to be a part of.
I've been wondering if the reason you're set on pointing out that Nauci isn't using her vote was to point out that she is being noncommittal. It gave off the impression you didn't understand who she was SR'ing rather than just questioning why she isn't voting her SR. Did you truly believe that Nauci's 2049 didn't clearly show who she thinks is scum, or did you ask questions with the intent of trying to see why she has a SR without a vote on Truth?
I don't see what prompted her to say I'm not reading the game, other than my remark that not everyone babysits the thread. Babysit and read aren't the same thing.
Nauci once again pushes that she wishes I was killed despite me wagoning scum!popopo and not town!osuka and her doing the opposite. I think she's trying to buddy Blair. She also doesn't specify exactly what I've "disassociated" from. It strikes me as a "Deny! Deny! Deny!" campaign.
Blair is catastrophic. She's two for two in the games I've played with her.
She says I avoided commenting on Truth's claim, but I posted that it was self-resolving. "Pointedly" is her own subjective exaggeration, btw. And, on top of that, she's saying that I would be dragged around by whatever plan Truth made if I were scum with him. None of this makes sense to me, other than Blair being conceited and thinking she's a far superior player to me.
