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[mavsfan41]

VOTE: Popopopo

You were scum in the other game I played with you and the non-vote tag thingy osuka pointed out. (Was gonna vote you in non-vote tags but that seemed like it would be the type of thing that would be hilarious to me and no one else.)

[mavsfan41]

So I haven’t fully finished the read but wanted to comment about LicketyQuickety going after the miller/mason claim. In 84, you mention the two possibilities for going after Truth’s claim. I would argue it’s #1 and he’s new vs #2. Post 52 should tell you that. Truth saying he has his mason buddies coming forward to verify his claim, that would look horrible coming from scum. If scum!Truth is fake claiming miller/mason then his buddies would be scum. To 1) be scum and suggest his partners will verify his claim is one helluva gambit if ANYONE of them were to be lynched, you could easily link them together 2) to not know how that would sound saying he has buddies coming forward with players being skeptical of his claim and not being aware of the optics of this. This tells me that he hasn’t even considered how scummy it would be to say “hey guys. I have a private chat and will show guilty to a cop’s investigation, but don’t worry cause I’ve got people in that private chat to verify I’m town.” That sounds scummy af and Truth seems to just not have even considered the optics. Basically his 52 reads to me like someone being like I’m confirmed town cause my buddies will back me up without even considering scum could make the same exact claim with scum buddies backing that fake claim up. As of right now, I hafta accept his claim here (at least for now).

[mavsfan41]

Hi guys! Sorry for lurking. Was wrapping up another game and the post game and geez, we’re 20 pages in... catching up now. I’m through page 12 right before Glitch’s novel disguised as post 299.

I hate to be that guy, but what’s a hood? I tried looking it up, but couldn’t find anything on it.

Thoughts on Quickety vs osuka: this comes right after Quickety’s push of the miller/mason claim. I’m not quite sure I’ve fully digested this battle. Deserves a couple of rereads, but Quickety flips from Truth to osuka real quick. But I don’t read him as scum pushing the claimed miller trying to force the lynch there. With Truth’s tease of a breadcrumbing his team, seems like scum wouldn’t push this slot as hard as Quick did. Osuka rips into Truth but doesn’t actually think he’s scum (at least from what I’ve gathered). Osuka’s premise for pushing Quickety was due to Quickety saying he pushed osuka and then saying he didn’t. He did this in the most previous game with another player and the game devolved into what that exchange became. Both players were town, so sure TvT. Osuka’s premise for going after Quickety I don’t read as disingenuous.

Other than that, the most active players where I could develop some read was Truth and I’ve made my feelings know about Truth in a previous post. (Shouldn’t be too hard to find cause there’s only two of them other than this one).

I’ll post more once I catch up, just wanted to avoid the full catch up wall like Glitch.

[mavsfan41]

Through page 13 (GL’s 302) and before finishing my catchup, had to comment stuff really quick.

First, Glitch’s wall post. So I’m not a great mafia player at all. But the most effective way for me to find scum is inquiring about progressions. So if there’s an odd progression, definitely question it. So town points to Nauci for 134 and scum points to Glitch for his response to that post in his wall. Progressions are very easy to explain if you’re town acting in good faith (even though your push might be bad) so Glitch’s response to Nauci’s inquiry is a quintessential fluff post. Glitch explains why he votes but not why he voted Quickety specifically.

Second, GL’s 302 tunnel vision post is weird. The fact he scum reads Norwegian based of wording used in 78 I think it’s a bad faith push to include in that. This post seems like an OMGUS after 130 & 172. I can see GL’s push here sure, but the rest of the post seems like a mix of solid-ish points mixed with bad faith pushes diluting the argument. But I couldn’t get over the scum read for “implore you to abandon” quote. Maybe it’s a good faith read that ended up as just randomly quoting Norwegian and trying to interpret it as scummy.

Would vote Glitch here, but haven’t finished the catch up and would look foolish casting a vote only to rescind my vote on my subsequent post.

[mavsfan41]

Aright, so I’ve completed the full catchup. Admittedly it was only a one-time read though.

Thoughts: idk where I fall on the Norwegian/GL battle. GL battled with Norwegian for like 4 pages only to switch to Popopo. His reasons for voting were fine, but I can’t help but feel it was a little forced from where GL had previously stood. That vote also came after possibly scum!GL would be testing the waters for a Norwegian lynch but got no traction on the wagon. GL has some solid posts I read as town, but that Popopo progression after going after Norwegian just feels off to me. Popopo’s sheeping of Norwegian is problematic as an easy cop out for votes with no motive, but I can’t help but think that makes him too easy of a mislynch target. To link Norwegian/Popopo I think it’s far too facile to link Norwegian/Popopo as a scum team.

Reading through GL’s iso, in 304 he lists Popopopo as a town read. He then votes Popopopo in 439. So there’s our GL timeline from TR’ing to SR’ing Popopo. Let’s check popopo’s ISO for any posts between those for scummy posts. I don’t see much within that time frame other than a sheep onto GL. This is the post that sets GL off cause it takes GL to L-2 and GL claims Popopo had some SR on Nauci but agrees with her in voting GL as if he’s trying to slide onto the wagon. Nauci’s actions are weird here from thinking in 410 that Norwegian/GL is TvT or SvS then voting shortly after for GL which means she reads this is SvS? Later she’ll actually question the other side after unvoting. I’m perplexed by Nauci’s actions here. And 494 & 496 I believe she’s not aligned with either and fell town to me questioning both sides rather than just digging in and not thinking twice.

Well, tangent over.
VOTE: GuiltyLion

I can’t help but feel your progression to Popopo was after testing the waters for a Norwegian lynch then going to a much too easy scum linking of Norwegian/popopo. Surely scum won’t be that ballsy to pull off voting pattern like that?

@GL: do you still have a Popopo/Norwegian scum pairing?

Pedit: @popopo: see above.

[mavsfan41]

@popopo: your 536 post. Your response to GL is bad. Please do better. In 430, you voice some frustration with Looker. Wouldn’t that have been a been a better place to vote? I see your shtik of sheep’ing Norwegian, but don’t you think there’s a scenario where that’s very problematic for town?

[mavsfan41]

@Cat Scratch Fever: what’s the case on Nauci? Her actions around the GL wagon are weird, sure. But in a very short span she votes GL, unvotes him. Later she mentions GL in 493 but also is critical of Norwegian in 494 & 496. I’m not sure scum!Nauci unvotes GL and makes 494 & 496. This seems to me like town reconsidering between the two whereas scum would’ve parked the vote and called it a day.

@Popopo: as for your read list. So I’m scummy for moving my RVS to a player I’m now reading as scum? That coincided with my catchup and not your post prodding me. Also, if you have Cat Scratch Fever as your top SR, you see how voting with Norwegian is problematic right? I hope you don’t blindly follow his votes for too much longer. Despite what Norwegian’s response was in 621, I FULLY support Looker’s 620 (not only the thing about your voting habits but also the thing about Truth too).

[mavsfan41]

Disclaimer: I’m really bad at reading a bus’ing vote, but I wouldn’t consider that a bus’ing scenario for Nauci right there. I think the fact she place her vote on one side, then reconsidered it and pushed the side she had voted with is town intentions.

[mavsfan41]

Disclaimer: I’m really bad at reading a bus’ing vote, but I wouldn’t consider that a bus’ing scenario for Nauci right there. I think the fact she place her vote on one side, then reconsidered it and pushed the side she had voted with is town intentions.

Hey buddy want to form a town block?

Umm, this early? Nah.

UNVOTE: GuiltyLion

I like your most recent posts in the second installment of GuiltyLion vs Norwegian.

@Glitch: I agree with Norwegian and Nauci’s 717. I think effort focused on Truth would be better used elsewhere.

Can someone give me the case against Popopo? I read Glitch’s 710 which is details a case for Popopo all in one place, so thanks for that. But reading why people have voted Popopo, i get the idea that it’s just a D1 policy lynch (I’m okay with a D1 PL) for sheep’ing Norwegian?

@Truth: I can almost guarantee that the doctor will NOT be protecting you tonight. But I wouldn’t worry about it cause scum likely ain’t gonna kill a claimed mason/miller.

@Norwegian: you seem pretty dug in on the GuiltyLion slot. How are you feeling about him after your second clash? Feeling stronger or weaker about his chances of flipping scum?

[mavsfan41]

VOTE: Norwegian

I don’t like their progression to Nauci especially since being so keen that GuiltyLion was scum even as recently as 729 & 735. Quickety’s 754 suggests Nauci. This is where it starts. So the progression of Norwegian’s 755 to the eventual vote in 762 just seems forced without looking forced in a way Norwegian could vote but before that, test the waters to see if he’d look scummy. I don’t think town!Norweigan jumps from SR’ing GuiltyLion as recently as 729 & 735 to picking the “safest” option of Quickety’s suggestions and then votes Nauci after osuka’s blessing in 761. This seems forced to me especially with 729 and the development of how quickly he starts suspecting Nauci to how quickly he votes. This would mean that Norwegian now SRs Nauci more than GuiltyLion? Seems weird.

@Truth: as for you 808, if no one dies that doesn’t necessarily mean you were saved. It means whomever the doctor targeted during the night is town (unless for whatever reason scum decides not to make a kill N1 which I highly doubt would be the case). I seriously don’t believe that the doctor would ever target you and I seriously doubt scum is going to NK you.

[mavsfan41]

@Quickety: so it’s not only that he sheep’ed you, that’s just one component. It’s that he switched off GuiltyLion to develop a SR very quickly on Nauci and only voted AFTER osuka’s 761 as a response to that post. I think town!Norwegian votes Nauci before osuka’s post. That felt like he was worried he might appear scummy to vote Nauci but after osuka’s post, felt like he could much easily defend his vote or play it off if challenged on it.

[mavsfan41]

@Quickety: so it’s not only that he sheep’ed you, that’s just one component. It’s that he switched off GuiltyLion to develop a SR very quickly on Nauci and only voted AFTER osuka’s 761 as a response to that post. I think town!Norwegian votes Nauci before osuka’s post. That felt like he was worried he might appear scummy to vote Nauci but after osuka’s post, felt like he could much easily defend his vote or play it off if challenged on it.

Problem is, I was calling GL Town the whole time Norway was pushing him. I literally stepped in and got in the way of Norway's tunnel to get him to go after someone else.

So my argument is that scum!Norweigan after pushing GuiltyLion on TWO separate occasions realized he wasn’t going to get a mislynch then rapidly picked some other target in Nauci off your post, then only after getting approval from two different people (you and osuka), actually voted Nauci. I.E. Norwegian didn’t appear to be SR’ing Nauci before your post but somehow decides to vote her like 5 posts later after seeing that two other people are possibly SR’ing her. That doesn’t seem off to you?

[mavsfan41]

@mavs What do you make of Osuka?

Pending some more research on NBEE, I think that we're more likely to hit scum there than NBEE for aforementioned WIFOM reasons. Do you disagree?

@GuiltyLion you were in that newbie game with Osuka, so what's your take on my read?

I haven’t really thought much about osuka since my 483. I should re-evaluate that but osuka/Quickety lead me to believing osuka was town. How/why he goes after Quickety seemed fine. It’s not unlike what Blair got him for in our most recent game together and I read that interaction the same exact way. But I should re-evaluate that spot when I get off work and have more time later. As for your 844, I can see that narrative and will take a look back through and see if I read him the same way you are.

@Quickety: Speaking of going back and re-reading, I hated Glitch’s wall post, ESPECIALLY his fluff answer for why he voted you. Don’t know why I abandoned that read, but he is another one who deserves another look. Homework for tonight, osuka and Glitch.

So my argument is that scum!Norweigan after pushing GuiltyLion on TWO separate occasions realized he wasn’t going to get a mislynch then rapidly picked some other target in Nauci off your post,

I townread Quick. Why is me listening to my townread and considering whether i might be wrong scummy?

I’m definitely not explaining my case well, but it’s not just listening to Quickety. It’s how you pivoted from GuiltyLion to Nauci after being so adamant about GuiltyLion being scum. It’s how you dropped GuiltyLion as a SR to pursue Nauci as fast as you did. And it’s how you didn’t vote there until two players seemed okay with Nauci as if trying to make sure you weren’t going to look scummy voting Nauci.

Here’s the timeline I’m seeing -> votes GuiltyLion -> multi-page battle -> still thinks GuiltyLion is scum -> multi-page battle -> asked by me if you still think GuiltyLion is scum after the second multi-page battle where you say yes -> Quickety is like, nah, here’s a list of people to go after instead -> you pick one and have a few post why they’re scummy -> osuka is like sure, they seem scummy -> votes Nauci.

Also, I would like to add that: after your second multi-page battle with GuiltyLion, I actually read GuiltyLion as town and I was previously reading Nauci as town. So you dug in on GuiltyLion after the second battle (when he became a town for me) then pivoted to another town read of mine. I’d be lying if I said that didn’t factor into my SR of you.

[mavsfan41]

It’s not unlike what Blair got him for in our most recent game together and I read that interaction the same exact way.

I don't think that's the game I was in so can you explain this?

Unless you were referring to Blair v Quick here?

Yes. It was how Blair votes Quick after Quick said he wasn’t mysterious and then posted all mysteriously and Blair attacked him on that and multi-page battle ensued.

Sub out Blair for osuka and I can see a parallel where osuka goes after Quickety cause Quickety says he pushes osuka and then says he never pushed osuka (or maybe it was the other way around, forget the order).

So that’s how I initially read the osuka/Quickety interaction.

[mavsfan41]

@mavs What do you make of Osuka?

Pending some more research on NBEE, I think that we're more likely to hit scum there than NBEE for aforementioned WIFOM reasons. Do you disagree?

@GuiltyLion you were in that newbie game with Osuka, so what's your take on my read?

FoS on osuka. As I’ve said, I hadn’t really thought much about that slot, but after an ISO, I can see your argument. I think he’s going a little too far with Truth. He’s saying what I’m thinking often but I don’t really like how it’s every single time Truth posts. 750 & 751 feel town to me and that’s why he’s getting the FoS and not an actual SR from me. The attack on Quickety strikes me as town but the constant just taking every opportunity to rip into Truth just seems forced. Not sure if he has ulterior motives here or not, but I’ll give him the benefit of the doubt here cause he doesn’t try to role fish or call Truth’s bluff about Truth’s supposed mason buddies backing him. But more just calls Truth the VI (or at least how I read it). There is 595 where he thinks Truth is scum but also 697 which would imply more of a acknowledgement of Truth’s play style so far and how he might not be scum, just... umm..... playing a unique style. But not sure, so let’s ask...

@osuka: are you still SR’ing Truth?

As for Glitch, I’ll get around to him later. His wall posts are exhausting to read.

@Norwegian: I’m not saying you’re scummy cause you abandoned your read on GuiltyLion. I’m saying that I think SR’ing him after the second battle seems forced. And also how you went about your vote with Nauci, which again, you got Quickety and osuka’s take on Nauci and THEN voted. Not to sound like a broken record, but this reads as an extra precaution to make sure you’re not being SR’ed for voting Nauci. I understand why you’d drop your pursuit of GuiltyLion if you don’t think it will turn into a lynch cause I think I’m going to have to do the same thing pretty soon and pursue other targets instead of you for basically the same reason.

Pedit: @nauci: I see you posted 881 - 883 and haven’t read them yet. But wanted to get this post up.

[mavsfan41]

@NDMath: what are your views on Truth?

[mavsfan41]

Mavsfan, i suggest you join a substantial wagon such as NDMath. A lynch on me isn’t going to happen.

I agree. I’ve said as much in 884. I don’t want to vote NDMath just quite yet.

[mavsfan41]

I want you to choose between Candy Shop and mavsfan41.

I like Candy Shop. I was happy mavsfan trusted me but I get the feeling mafia will also be more likely to trust me, because they know I can't be mafia and am telling the truth. I will leave him as an unsure.

I trust your claim cause scum!Truth wouldn’t be this reckless. You seem completely unaware of how scummy claiming a mason/miller is and for a D1 opening post gambit, it’s extremely ballsy to claim that.

Also, begging the doctor to target you is soooo incredibly scummy. If scum could convince the doctor to target them, they wouldn’t hafta worry about targeting the same person as the doctor therefore wasting a NK. The sheer absurdity of that argument and not realizing how scummy the optics of your claims are and I might as well add that you voted a no lynch..... you’re either playing scum as “things scum should never say bingo” or you’re just completely oblivious about the optics of your actions. I can’t believe scum would play this reckless.

[mavsfan41]

VOTE: NDMath

Alright Norwegian, I’m down to switch to NDMath. GuiltyLion’s 877 specifically point #5 I think is pretty townie. I think NFMath’s push there is in bad faith and I’m not a fan personally of 910 with the vote coming of GuiltyLion coming in 909. This seems like an extremely forced SR and vote.

Apologies in advance but, I suck at quoting walls and didn’t want to quote NDMath’s 910 and ruin everyone’s day....
but at the bottom of 910, part of NDMath’s of SR’ing GuiltyLion is cause GuiltyLion called out NDMath’s read list for not having reasons attached? This isn’t even a reason to SR anyone. In fact, I’m not quite sure how strong GuiltyLion’s SR of NDMath is. This seems like a pretty defensive position for NDMath to take and a pretty manufactured SR and vote of GuiltyLion here.

@Norwegian: idk how I missed your 887, but what the hell man? I just had a scum read on you for essentially “making sure a wagon was safe and you wouldn’t be scum read before jumping on it” and you do that? At least I have to give you props for voting BEFORE the 887 post and seeing if people would agree with you instead of posting 887 and seeing if you’d get 2 people to agree and then voting in a subsequent post. So progress!

[mavsfan41]

If i was doctor i would never target you here Truth. Because i don’t think your reads are particurarily impressive, so even as confirmed town ur not worthy of protection vs someone like Quick or Mavsfan that look legit town and are trying to solve.

What do you disagree about my reads for? If you are town, you shouldn't know who mafia are so how do you know they're not impressive?

Ummmmmm..... If you’re town, then you don’t know who mafia is either. So how do you know your reads are correct? I don’t know if mine are. Town!norwegian doesn’t know if his are. And town!Truth doesn’t know his reads are correct. Please just stop. I beg of you.

[mavsfan41]

@Norwegian: it doesn’t trigger me as much as the progression to Nauci. But it’s more of a “testing the waters” type before pushing, as if to gain the town consensus to see if its an okay push. That just strikes me as a precaution that scum would take more than town. I guess I read it as scum seeing how easy it would be to lynch someone whereas town wouldn’t worry too too much and just push. It’s the little added qualifiers of judging interest in a wagon instead of just trying to create one. Does that make sense?

[mavsfan41]

@Norwegian: I SR’ed GuiltyLion and voted him with that push as a factor. That seemed extremely forced. I also read that now as a hard tunnel and not as a bad faith push trying to achieve a mislynch. I’ve kinda backed down a little from SR’ing you.. I’ll just agree to disagree. It’s a style of yours. You seem pretty consistent. So, as of now, you’ve gone closer to null than scum since the weird and awkward qualifications of trying to start a wagon is more NAI than scum tell, sure.

I’m just of the opinion that scum would do that as they’d be afraid to have a bad faith push result in a lynch of them, whereas town wouldn’t be worried about being lynched since regardless of how bad a push might be, they’re acting in good faith. Put another way, it seems by gauging interest in a wagon, scum would have a defense of a mislynch as “see, others were SR’ing him too. I wasn’t the first.” And town pushing a bad wagon in good faith would be able to explain truthfully why they’re pushing who they are even if it’s premise is terrible.

[mavsfan41]

Hi all. Sorry I haven’t post in the last two days. Been busy. Have lots of reading for tonight and will post with more content when I catch up on the last 5 pages or so.

Hi Blair!

[mavsfan41]

Hey all! I’ve been following when I can. I really apologize for having to sub out especially as scum. I wanted to see this game in full, but alas, outside forces got in the way. I felt awful signing up only to request a sub shortly afterwards. Sorry mod and the participants.

Nice work scum team!

Sorry Dunn for putting having you sub in and take my spot, but you played it better than I ever could’ve!

@Deimos27: sorry again for subbing out of your game. But thanks for finding a replacement so quickly!

[mavsfan41]

Of course one or both were scum PR

Ugh I am dumb for incorrectly interpreting Looker's post I'm sorry town, as the last sane person in the game

Also have I really only seen scumstral? How do you always replace into scum?

Well played, Mavs

Thanks Nauci!

Glad to see my early pocket attempt worked so well and you survived long enough

Day 1 reads can last the WHOLE game and can be absolutely brutal to challenge later if you get a solid town read early on. Glad to know I’m not the only one to fall victim to one of my misguided town reads.