Mini Normal 2149 | Philosophers | Over

[Nauci]

Ohai everybody

VOTE: LicketyQuickety

I'll be back after Animal Crossing errands

The path to blue roses is paved with blood sweat and repetitive stress injuries

[Nauci]

Quick. This is vital for my read on your slot. Do you have trouble detecting sarcasm and jokeey posts with serious ones?

Among other things

[Nauci]

Interesting. I would like everyone to know I am a

Miller Mason

. I have buddies but I won't be revealing who they are at this time. For now, I will act as their representative.

We would like a nice clean thread clear of profanities. Whenever giving a read or placing a vote, we would like a reason attached as to avoid people having to ask for the reasons. Thank you, we'll let you know if there's any updates.

Once upon a time I would probably have thought this was weird but at this point in 2020 I could be suddenly devoured by a 99 tentacled cthulhu monster appearing out of nowhere in the California sky and be entirely unsurprised

[Nauci]

So, you think LicketyQuickety is town pushing me in good faith? They did not even consider the scenario that I have buddies to verify my claim in their accusatory post. It seems to me that they're hoping for support in their push.

I think we should all refrain from taking Quick too seriously

Just sort of universally applicable advice in any MS game

[Nauci]

Oy Mavs, are you scum this time?

[Nauci]

I can already see that osuka is approving the push and shading me. Do you think this could be him testing the room to see if there's support?

this is a retarded misrep

Are you aware that the average teenager on Fortnite is more polite than you are

[Nauci]

How about you evaluate people based on play and not claims.

[Nauci]

I can already see that osuka is approving the push and shading me. Do you think this could be him testing the room to see if there's support?

this is a retarded misrep

Are you aware that the average teenager on Fortnite is more polite than you are

yes

I feel like I agree with the content of your posts oftentimes but it's hard to support the way you put it

Like, yeah, those posts weren't smart, but I don't think somebody is remedial based on that...

[Nauci]

i'm starting to have serious doubts that you're mason

59 does not come from any town with an iq that has anywhere near 3 digits

I will ignore your insult and point out the obvious: You are shading me without advocating my lynch. You are testing the waters to see if others are open to pushing me, in which case you would join. That is what it looks like to me.

that's just not true at all. i'm calling your stupid plays out as what they are: stupid plays. I'm not advocating for anyone's lynch and if you legitimately believe that, youre delusional

That is exactly my point. You are calling me out and shading me while not advocating my lynch. This looks like a mafia play to me. If people agree with you and start voting me, I expect you will then be fine with my lynch, but right now, you are not pushing it because it may make you look like mafia if not enough people get behind it.

Calling a post stupid because it's not super logical isn't shading though... Osuka explicitly said to not lynch a mason claim today as well. I don't know why you're posting as if dumb posts are exclusively the territory of scum; they're not at all synonymous.

I feel like you've misread Osuka's posts completely. Re-evaluate your premises and logic after rereading.

[Nauci]

Good evening folks,

Interesting. I would like everyone to know I am a Miller Mason. I have buddies but I won't be revealing who they are at this time. For now, I will act as their representative.

What is that even supposed to mean, act as their representative?

59 does not come from any town with an iq that has anywhere near 3 digits

Truth's immediate claim is kinda ballsy unless it's true. I feel 59 was just pushing back, why is it such a bad idea?

Changing gears, 44 isn't the greatest comeback with the whole fake millers are all mafia argument (if I'm understanding that right). That would be such a huge downfall for the scum if they identified together and then one gets lynched and we find out who they are. Of course we would take the rest down. That just sounds like a terrible strategy I would never think the scum would use unless they were complete morons. So VOTE: LicketyQuickety because scum aren't stupid and we have to hunt smart.

Lick, what would your strategy be as scum? Fly under the radar? Big and bold to seem fearless of dying? Something else?

Did you mean to say "fake masons" instead of "fake millers" in this post?

[Nauci]

Glitch, I don't understand why in that post you voted for Quick. Maybe I'm misreading the post, but can you elaborate on your case for that vote?

[Nauci]

I may or may not be in a neighbourhood. I am open to someone claiming neighbours with me which I will play along with. Of course, it might also be my real neighbour if I am in a neighbourhood. This would be the Wifom element at play, and should make it difficult for mafia to decide whether I am a Mason or a neighbour.

Why did you claim Miller Mason? Why didn't you just claim the Miller aspect of your role?

I would also like to know this

[Nauci]

Spoiler:

You can be town for this post

My biases run deep

[Nauci]

So I haven’t fully finished the read but wanted to comment about LicketyQuickety going after the miller/mason claim. In 84, you mention the two possibilities for going after Truth’s claim. I would argue it’s #1 and he’s new vs #2. Post 52 should tell you that. Truth saying he has his mason buddies coming forward to verify his claim, that would look horrible coming from scum. If scum!Truth is fake claiming miller/mason then his buddies would be scum. To 1) be scum and suggest his partners will verify his claim is one helluva gambit if ANYONE of them were to be lynched, you could easily link them together 2) to not know how that would sound saying he has buddies coming forward with players being skeptical of his claim and not being aware of the optics of this. This tells me that he hasn’t even considered how scummy it would be to say “hey guys. I have a private chat and will show guilty to a cop’s investigation, but don’t worry cause I’ve got people in that private chat to verify I’m town.” That sounds scummy af and Truth seems to just not have even considered the optics. Basically his 52 reads to me like someone being like I’m confirmed town cause my buddies will back me up without even considering scum could make the same exact claim with scum buddies backing that fake claim up. As of right now, I hafta accept his claim here (at least for now).

This is a good assessment

[Nauci]

Mafia will know I am confirmed town because I am either telling the truth or lying and am mafia. So they would want to kill a confirmed town in the night.

[Nauci]

i meant to quote the whole post there.

So in case of a lynch without any info, we're more likely to hit town than mafia. Accordingly, we have to get more info on scum from the lynch than the value of losing a player.

I'm sure that we're marginally more likely to hit mafia with this method on the first day than a completely random RNG lynch but that is not the test IMO.

The real test is whether the net information gained from the reactions of people from being pressured outweighs the high chance of a potential loss of a townie. When I say net information I also mean to include negative utility information for town such as the fact that the mafia knows of the existence of a masonry when it did not need to.

This logic works better the more investigative roles there are in the game though because the more there are the more it makes sense to wait for a night.

I haven't seen anything yet to lose a townie in a 13 player game so far.

VOTE: NO LYNCH

VOTE: Candy Shop

[Nauci]

I am okay with not lynching today. Going to even numbers alive on a day is bad, but if a doctor protects me we would actually be back on odd numbers. And not lynching on the first day is better than later on because of the proportion of mafia and town.

VOTE: no lynch

Y'all are going to turn me into osuka at this rate

[Nauci]

But i don’t think scum would say things like this so light TR on those slots... maybe.

I think it's incredibly plausible that scum would try to sidetrack town on a bizarre and potentially heated mechanics discussion, especially if there's already a quagmire of it from the miller mason claim. Easier to keep IIOA going than to genuinely push, no?

[Nauci]

Since we will likely go to even numbers at some point this game due to a doctor saving me or my buddies, why not no lynch on the first day?

Do the number of posts trying to explain to you that it would make no sense for either scum to target you or for a doctor to save you not have any impact on your views whatsoever?

[Nauci]

no multiball

IIRC there's no multi-ball in Mini Normals

[Nauci]

Could I suggest we move on from this discussion for now and pretend it didn't happen?

As for the arguments to not no lynch, my thinking was that people usually no lynch on even numbers because it makes no difference in the number of lynches left and gives our roles more information. Since we will likely go to even numbers at some point this game due to a doctor saving me or my buddies, why not no lynch on the first day?

omegalul what planet do you live on? NL is almost universally bad unless you're in mylo

you're literally going to give me an aneurysm if you keep talking about the game, you, and your buddies the way you are. it's giving me an almost unbearable urge to put my head through the wall

there's also zero guarantee that there is only one killing role. that means no vig, no neutral-aligned killer, and no multiball (though this last one is pretty unlikely)

This is kinda Scummy.

It seems OTT.

It also seems like you are not doing anything at all except complaining about how bad Truth is playing. I haven't really seen you do any Scum hunting. Your completely focussed on the claim and nothing else. Don't like this look from you. If you are as smart as you think you are, you would just ignore Truth and hunt elsewhere.

Just chiming in to say that Osuka definitely does this as town so it's probably NAI

[Nauci]

Well, does anyone have any strong feelings of mafia from any other players? I would be fine with lynching but it doesn't seem like anyone has any leads.

Considering this was on page 8 maybe you should have been pressuring somewhere and not making the Mafiascum post equivalent of Hint Water

[Nauci]

I am reading. I don't remember everything. I am suspicious of Osuka as well so I can help here.

VOTE: Osuka

How could you possibly have missed that? It's on the same page you said people were too focussed on your claim that I pointed out Osuka is too focussed on your claim. How exactly DID you miss that?

he actually can be forgiven for missing your "push" because honestly I'm staggered that you dared call it a push in the first place

I didn't call it a push.

is this part of the 2020 Black Mirror plot

what timeline am I in

[Nauci]

Well, does anyone have any strong feelings of mafia from any other players? I would be fine with lynching but it doesn't seem like anyone has any leads.

I am reading. I don't remember everything. I am suspicious of Osuka as well so I can help here.

VOTE: Osuka

What made you start suspecting osuka

He’s just really dense and he doesn’t like how I talk, I take it

You realize you holding this position makes you look really bad if Truth flips Scum, right? Like, you have a bad case of a double standard here. On the one hand, you say Truth is stupid, but for some reason you feel content to otherwise leave the slot alone in terms of actually giving a Town/Scum read on that slot. On the other hand, you want to PL me because... why, exactly? Because I pushed you for your non-committal, complaining that doesn't help solve the game at ALL? No one can see your notes, bro. Why do you expect us to just believe you are Town here. But far be it from anyone else to push you. Oh no, can't have that, can we?

So your stance on Truth is Scummy since you haven't actually said anything about that slot in terms of Scum/Town except to say they are incompetent - meanwhile, me, who is trying their hardest to sort the claim while providing other takes on the game as well you want to PL for having one stance you disagree with, namely, a push on you for doing nothing but complaining? Yeah, inconsistent isn't the half of it.

You know how I kept trying to explain to people in our last game that your viewpoints make perfect sense to you in your head, but you're not able to get them out fully in your posts so that people are misinterpreting you or don't understand you frequently? You know how you wish that people would be more intellectually charitable to you about your points?

Why don't you apply that to how you read osuka's posts. Osuka's narrative makes sense from their perspective based on how he has read your posts. You fully contradicted yourself within 5 posts of saying you pushed osuka, and are now completely misconstruing what they're saying. You have extremely high confidence in your opinions even though most players won't agree with your premises or your conclusions and it makes your posting frequently anti-town. This isn't the first or last time people have talked about policy-lynching you and it's not happening repeatedly because every single one of these players is completely insane in the same way. Take a breather and re-evaluate the last 2 pages with more intellectual charity in mind.

[Nauci]

I am reading. I don't remember everything. I am suspicious of Osuka as well so I can help here.

VOTE: Osuka

How could you possibly have missed that? It's on the same page you said people were too focussed on your claim that I pointed out Osuka is too focussed on your claim. How exactly DID you miss that?

he actually can be forgiven for missing your "push" because honestly I'm staggered that you dared call it a push in the first place

What would you call it besides a push? I did say it was a push, but the fact that you focus on my wording instead of my actions tells a whole lot more about you then me. It was pretty clear that I put pressure on you. call it a push, call it pressure, call it Scum hunting, doesn't really matter what you call it. It's pretty clear you keep majoring on the minors. First it was my word choice, now it's something about how you personally categorize stuff, meanwhile, you HAVEN'T actually put any pressure, pushed, Scum hunted really anyone in this game at all except me based on a technicality that is beyond weak. For lack of a better term, it's a bad push.

VOTE: Osuka

For the contradiction of pushing me and not Truth.

and there it is, the classic scum meltdown into omgus

there's a lot to unpack here. in order: you didn't even cast shade on me. You literally just said "this post is kinda scummy and over the top" and proceeded to do ~literally fucking nothing~ about it, other than using it as leverage to defend yourself vs truth's own pseudo-push.

"the minors" are where people who are at least halfway competent slip in this game. the way you say things often reveals much more than the things you're actually saying (or omitting). Even if completely ignoring the fact that I actually did exactly what you suggested in 191 (i.e., pushed someone else - just happened to be you), i find it very difficult to believe that the sequence in 195-198-201-202 topped off by 208 comes from town

you got overly defensive way too quick and tried to spin the situation as if i was the offending party, when in fact you very directly contradicted yourself after making a very noncommittal poke at me to use it elsewhere in the game, then flipping right back to whatever version of it was most convenient for you at the time

Unfortunately I don't find QuickLogic™ or QuickDefensiveness™ alignment indicative because I've only played with Town!Quick and he's always like this

[Nauci]

I

think

she means this

I'll wait for her to answer.

That is, in fact, what I was referring to. Specifically, day 2 of that game.

[Nauci]

Where did everyone else go? Can y'all not just use that 1v1 as cover to sit back and scumlurk?

Glitch and others have a lot of questions to answer.

[Nauci]

Don't care about this until you link where osuka has been OTT.

Dude what is with you and literally posting just to say you are ignoring my posts this game

Like wtf is the point of doing that repeatedly

[Nauci]

I didn't see anything I would consider OTT.

Just to be clear for everyone else, the "nothing OTT" game that Quick purportedly just skimmed involved Osuka and Formerfish going so completely over the top with mocking 2 players' posts (and themselves) that 7/9 players in the game replaced out then and there, and at least 1 sitewide ban was given.

[Nauci]

I didn't see anything I would consider OTT.

Just to be clear for everyone else, the "nothing OTT" game that Quick purportedly just skimmed involved Osuka and Formerfish going so completely over the top with mocking 2 players' posts (and those players themselves) that 7/9 players in the game replaced out then and there, and at least 1 sitewide ban was given.

EBWOP

[Nauci]

Freddie, why shouldn't you die today?

you’ve said yourself that I’m a bad player many times, so Going off that, how likely is it that I’m strategic enough to be scum? Is that a chance you’re willing to take when Deciding whether you should risk voting another lynch? Are you taking that into consideration, or are you happy with Just anyone hanging....

uh sorry i seem to have missed this post

this is probably the worst post in the thread so far. Everyone in this thread is now slightly more brain damaged than they were before having read this pile of dogshit, dumpster fire of a post

but like holy fuckiNG BALLSACK HAVE YOU OUTDONE YOURSELVES

question: is it common to suspect someone is lying who confirms themselves as town like i did? i guess i answered my own question by observing that im still under scrutiny even though i confirmed my role.

and as if the rest of the post wasn't bad enough, this is the shit-cherry on top of the garbage-cake that is this post. like if the post before this one gave everyone brain damage, this one is certain to cause everyone in a 50-mile radius and all of their children to lose all higher brain function

to be clear: the only thing youve confirmed is that you absolutely need to be lynched today. I'm deathtunneling you until either of us is on the dead thread

osuka, you are clearly being a dick and making it personal. stop being a dick. and yes, i mean that you as a person are being a dick, outside the context of this game.

also, at this point freddie is 100% town. i know her well enough to know that she's being honest here. she hasnt quite grasped this game, but shes trying. maybe constructive criticism or feedback would be better for both your emotional wellbeing, hers, and the game. i guess you're entitled to be a dick if you want though.

i guess ill effort tomorrow and say some things.

whatever you say - i find it nearly impossible to convey how bad some of this content is in any other way. feel free to chime in with some vocabulary you think is not dick-worthy and i'll make sure to read whatever you come up with

freddie is not 100% town and neither are you.

as an addendum, my emotional wellbeing is, in fact, untouched by whatever she could possibly say in this thread

have i lost my mind? is this real life? I think my reality is collapsing

can a collapsing mind objectively observe its own collapse? and if something is only real if it is objectively observable, then is my mind really collapsing? or has my mind never been real?

Just a few of the posts which happened in that game

[Nauci]

The long and short of it is that I don't think osuka actually thinks I am Scum. They put a "high confidence" read out there with one thing they say and in another thing they say they call what they are doing a push. Not sure I really get the logic or consistency there. On the one hand, he's "sure" I am Scum and on the other he thinks I am a good person to push to get more out of. Not sure I really get the second iteration there as I have pretty much been an open book this game.

...Are you saying it's logically inconsistent to scum-read someone and to pressure that person for more content to evaluate at the same time?

[Nauci]

Could they not be performing an act of WIFOM? Where they intentionally push each other with reasons that seem legitimate, but it's because they know people will think they are town for doing them.

I 100% believe that scum put on this type of show sometimes but I 0% believe that either Quick or Osuka could do that

[Nauci]

osuka - town but omg does this guy have any friends or does he just hate everyone lol

the latter

glitch can be town for now

Woah you even hate me!?

I don't know if my ego could ever recover from this deprivation of Osuka senpai's love

[Nauci]

i'm starting to have serious doubts that you're mason

Man i’m loving the vibes i’m getting from this game already.
This should be entertaining.
As for Truth’s claim i don’t usually see scum planning to make a miller mason claim within very short time of game start, so unless this is some next level WIFOM play by scum i’m inclined to believe the slot for now. Even if i think some of their posts have been a bit awkward.

First two lines feel like scum tryna just like... comment on the game, and then I don't like the way he hedges throughout - "inclined to believe" feels like awkward scum-writing-about-their-fake-thoughts rather than just actually having them.

Quick, if you are town i implore you to abandon this push. It’s quite a reach to assume someone is scum for claiming miller mason, and then suggesting they will only tell the truth when they’ve already stated their name has no bearing on behaviour.

"I implore you to abandon this push"? Norway I don't remember you ever speaking so awkwardly formally like this in our games together?

Oh, you are trying to dialog with a SR. That's interesting. "shoot first ask questions later"?

Having a dialogue with your scumread is natural and has many benefits to town. Don’t like how you’re trying to portray it negatively here.

Shade but no vote or further pressure. It's not clear to me what Norway's read on Quick really is - he constantly talks to him as if he townreads him but then what's the point of a post like this?

Please no. Stop arguing for no lynch.
I can’t take having to explain why it’s a dumb idea.

This vibes to me like a mafia response to someone advocating for No Lynch - contrast how others helpfully at least gave some reasoning for why no lynch is bad, this is just LAMIST.

only later he decides to jump in:

If you are no lynching you are basically throwing the game and wasting your slot and town’s chance to win. (Assuming you are town.)

scumdar firing hard on the awkward "(Assuming you are town.)"

I already called this out but this progression is bad, these posts were FOUR HOURS apart:

It’s been 8 hours and you’re voting GL based on inactivity?

GuiltyLion, can you please come in and obvtown it up soon. Your RVS entrance coupled with disappearing hasn’t exactly filled me to the brin with confidence regarding your slot.

I had similar reactions to the hedging language

Currently I'm struggling with the dynamic between him and popopopopo

Like... Should I consider it suspicious that they just entered into a vote-slave pact on the spot without questioning each other for it or is this some typical NAI shenanigans? I'm entirely puzzled by it and also puzzled by the lack of commentary on it. In light of the stuff that pinged you about Norwegian, what do you think?

[Nauci]

Need more info to figure out this whole LQ vs osuka shitshow

I want to know more about LQ and his playstyle and see what's going on. LQ never answered my question at the beginning:

Lick, what would your strategy be as scum? Fly under the radar? Big and bold to seem fearless of dying? Something else?

My vote stays on you for now cause this whole thing confuses me and you're not looking squeaky clean

Semi-coherent narcissism?

Which is an enormous improvement from 2 years ago which I would describe as fully incoherent narcissism. I've never seen scum!quick nor pro-town!quick ᕕ( ᐛ )ᕗ

His logic and premises always appear rock solid to him and he takes his views to be fact, and then builds his idea of everyone else based on his views and premises. This usually leads to a few different scenarios, like A: Quick super scum tunnels on someone because their scum reads and posts, while consistent in their open read evolutions and perspective, doesn't make sense in Quick's mind so they absolutely must be scum, B: Quick misreads several posts and builds an elaborate "logical" conclusion on completely inaccurate premises and it takes 10 pages to talk him out of that, or C: Quick has a solid read on someone built on solid reasoning and premises but only explains like 15% of his theory so none of the rest of us get what he's saying.

I have yet to figure out how to tell if it's Scum!Quick but I'm pretty good at sorting the NAI Quicksotic components so that he's not lynched as low hanging fruit ᕕ( ᐛ )ᕗ

[Nauci]

299

Most of this is just IIoA without really committing to anything. I didn't even see a vote in this post, which concerns me a lot actually.

P-edit: GL's tunnel on Norwegian seems ill founded. Norwegian seems Town from seeing them as Scum twice recently. This looks to be a pretty easy push on Norwegian, who IS actually questioning things and Scum hunting. Might not look like much, but it's way less of an agenda based play than I am used to seeing from Noway!Scum. It also gives GL the excuse to keep his vote where it is.

I agree with the first half of this post

[Nauci]

hi i'm ofrhz

I just posted on the wrong account

I really want you and lion to be town so we can have a town block of Cats

Please please please don't be scum I should be so sad

[Nauci]

I like GuiltyLion's case and may follow him for a while. Let's vote the person so he feels more pressure when he comes back and then has to respond while being a little self-conscious.

VOTE: NorwegianboyEE

popo feels like mafia as well.

Do you think their vote pact is something 2 scum would do together?

[Nauci]

LOL. IDK about how strong Norway is pushing GL as a kind of OMGUS, but this sure looks different from his Scum game.

How so?

[Nauci]

GL's first post actually pinged me hard, but i held back on commenting it until i'd seen what he would be up to. Since i've clearly seen his bad intentions by now there's no point concealing it.
Making a "RVS" vote like that on a random familiar slot and then leaving without doing any solving is an archtypical scum entrance i've seen a couple times by this point. Especially on my home forum. I can't explain it well. But if GL flips scum i'm going to celebrate my ability to see right through shit like that.

Take a look at post 16 for me crumbing that i would take this stance.

Lolwtf is this post even

[Nauci]

I like GuiltyLion's case and may follow him for a while. Let's vote the person so he feels more pressure when he comes back and then has to respond while being a little self-conscious.

I don't feel pressure from a case on me that's as bad as GuiltyLion's.

for somebody who "doesn't feel pressure" you sure felt the need to ramp up your activity and argue with every point

Hol up

Didn't you shade him for not addressing your accusations point by point when he flat out called it bs?

Are you now shading him for then going and doing that?

Say what now

[Nauci]

Nauci how are you reading Truth?

Truth is on my list of players I'm not really going to bother sorting on day 1 due to the claim

Quick is almost always automatically on that list

[Nauci]

Weirdly enough

I now think that GL and NB are either both town or both scum

Unlike Osuka and Quick, I find it fully plausible that these two could put on scum theatrics worthy of The Globe

[Nauci]

My painkillers and edibles are kicking in now so I'm going to procrastinate and do all of that meta reading tomorrow

I have only played 1 game with GL and it was a newbie he replaced into like 2 years ago so I can't even remember his alignment

I just found it odd that popopopopo immediately accepted the voting alliance without questioning, and that this in turn was accepted without questioning. It felt alignment indicative to me but I couldn't fathom in which direction without doing some heavy meta lifting

[Nauci]

I'll give you some action for now because of the post I called out earlier looking so, so bad

VOTE: GuiltyLion

[Nauci]

Saudade claiming

[Nauci]

Is this sarcasm? Everything here is written down...forever...why would you need to be reminded of something...? The intent is to sort.

[Nauci]

@Popopo
Scum has been caught. Vote GuiltyLion with me or you will be scum claiming. K tnx.

Ok senpai

vote: guiltylion

Idk if I'm comfortable with going to bed leaving someone at L-2 this early in a day

[Nauci]

UNVOTE: GuiltyLion

Too much lolhammering on this site to trust y'all with this while I'm asleep

Sun is up so time for bed; see y'all in the afternoon

[Nauci]

The other thing I don't like about popoppopoopoppopo's vote:

You previously said Nauci was "forced as fuck" and were voting her. Then she quotes one, yes ONE, post of mine she doesn't like, and votes me, and your response is to put me at L-2 with no hesitation? Did your read on Nauci change? Do you think she just decided to lolbus me cause Norway wants to play like he's some RVS god, even though I later linked a game where I opened the exact same way as town? It seems pretty dissonant to me!

VOTE: popopopopopo

I kept waiting for him to follow up that comment on me but it never happened so I assumed it was a sort of scum-testing-the-waters thing

But I also made a lot more content between then and now

[Nauci]

Well that should be obvious it will make me look bad. However, i think your play has been way scummier than him so far.

This was a suspiciously blatant misinterpretation of GL's question

[Nauci]

If you don’t like the fact that your scumread then maybe you shouldn’t have played so bad and started the day off by pushing me for quite frankly, awful reasons.

Soo... IS the core of your case OGMUS?

[Nauci]

The other thing I don't like about popoppopoopoppopo's vote:

You previously said Nauci was "forced as fuck" and were voting her. Then she quotes one, yes ONE, post of mine she doesn't like, and votes me, and your response is to put me at L-2 with no hesitation? Did your read on Nauci change? Do you think she just decided to lolbus me cause Norway wants to play like he's some RVS god, even though I later linked a game where I opened the exact same way as town? It seems pretty dissonant to me!

VOTE: popopopopopo

I'm in indentured votitude to norwe if u have a problem with my vote take it up with him

Are you trying for an innocence by TSTBS

[Nauci]

Also, I think all of the cats are town

Why?

[Nauci]

I like GuiltyLion's case and may follow him for a while. Let's vote the person so he feels more pressure when he comes back and then has to respond while being a little self-conscious.

VOTE: NorwegianboyEE

popo feels like mafia as well.

Do you think their vote pact is something 2 scum would do together?

I don't think GuiltyLion and NorwegianboyEE are mafia together. They are really trying to rip each other apart with their points. I like them both currently.

Also, I think all of the cats are town so I will be joining you!

Also, my question to you wasn't about GL vs NBEE, it was about NBEE and popopopopo

[Nauci]

This is literally terrible, if it weren't for your mason claim I would have been scum reading you so hard this entire game.

Yeah that about summarizes my feelings

[Nauci]

Glitch's 481 smells terrible to me because we are so extremely far past the point of setup analysis I don't see the point of doing yet another wall on the topic except to sound busy

Can we all agree to let that claim go until tomorrow and focus on the rest of the game which has plenty of other substance

[Nauci]

I take that last post back because I just realized he voted Truth in it and doing a big wall on the claim yet again makes sense in the context of explaining an actual desire to lynch there

[Nauci]

Should we quickly lynch popopopopopopopopo and go into night? I don't we'll get a better suspect than this and it may be good to go to the night without giving mafia any more information.

I'm putting this slot into the mental equivalent of a quiet corner time out

[Nauci]

I'm liking Mavs so far. Though I've not seen his scum game, his town game seems like it'd be fairly hard to fake as scum.

I think Glitch can be town for now. I don't see how or why scum would be making an honest go at lynching Truth at this point.

I'll read up on some past GL and NBEE games tonight.

[Nauci]

Her vote on GuiltyLion really surprised me. Based on her posts, I was expecting her to vote Norway.

The GL post Nauci is referring to isn't even that bad imo. It wasn't one of the posts from GL that pinged me anyhow.

I agree it was a surprising vote, but I kinda think that makes it less likely scum, not more. if scum!Nauci is planning to vote me why go through the effort of building up a bunch of skepticism of Norway first, I think she'd project a more consistent narrative than that. Looked to me more like she was tired (as she said) and those posts pinged her the most for whatever reason and she decided to vote entirely on that basis.

I used to only ever vote people I extremely thought were scum but games with many experienced players like MathDino have taught me that I should absolutely feel free to throw my vote around in order to pressure people into posting more content to help sort them, and this seemed like a huge opportunity for that

[Nauci]

I'll give you some action for now because of the post I called out earlier looking so, so bad

VOTE: GuiltyLion

If you don’t like the fact that your scumread then maybe you shouldn’t have played so bad and started the day off by pushing me for quite frankly, awful reasons.

Soo... IS the core of your case OGMUS?

I didn't like either of these posts

Her vote on GuiltyLion really surprised me. Based on her posts, I was expecting her to vote Norway.

The GL post Nauci is referring to isn't even that bad imo. It wasn't one of the posts from GL that pinged me anyhow.

If I were scum, what motivation would I have had to unvote before going to bed lol

[Nauci]

Is millar the same thing as miller?

Yes, and that's a semi Town-slip from you.

I don't want to lynch Truth today.

fucking lol

What???

omglol

I legitimately mentally read that as a post from someone trolling the thread and didn't realize it was Quick

Also we have like 11 friggin' days to figure this out so maybe let's not lynch for several more days of discussion; fewer than half of the players in this game have had their turn in the barrel

[Nauci]

I feel like at least 3 players handed out town reads of Cat Scratch Fever like they were free candy and I don't think there's been a good explanation from any of them

[Nauci]

What’s your read on me?

Null

[Nauci]

@nauci I’m drunk as fuck should i engage drunkposting mode

Yes absolutely

(Mostly because I don't think anyone here is likely to be annoyed out of the game by your antics since it's not a newbie game)

[Nauci]

Quick why did you empty quote just now

[Nauci]

Cat Scratch Fever - scummy his vote was opportunistic and his iso has been bad, handing out townreads like candy and little scumreads is mafia indicative especially early game
GuiltyLion - scum lean i explained
mavsfan41 - null-scum him coming in with a vote immediately after i call him out is not a good look
ndmath - null no impression of this slot
Nauci - null his early posts pinged me as forced, he has been posting more thoughtfully since.
Candy Shop - null dont really have an impression of this slot, this is the NL guy right? ok i checked his ISO. idk
Glitch - null seems like a noob. i find this type of player hard to sort. at least looks like hes trying.
Truth - any read i have is irrelevant, mechanics will sort. im more inclined to believe the claim than not.
osuka - null town feels like a saudade type player where he just calls people retards and argues. hard to read, but the argument with truth seemed genuine enough
Looker - town lean responded well to my request for reads even if we dont completely agree
NorwegianboyEE - town lean i explained already
LicketyQuickety - town lean his vote on me was bad but quick likes an illogical bad push as much as anyone so it doesnt surprise me he voted me. his incessant pushing on truth early feels town motivated coming from this particular player.

IDK What I'm supposed to be seeing here? Is it that he's voting GL but has CSF as scummier, or?

[Nauci]

Sometimes trying to decipher Quicksotic posting feels like trying to read tea leaves

and my tea comes in unlabeled bags...

[Nauci]

Nauci please answer my question

What question?

[Nauci]

Why are you trying to pocket me

Sorry I didn't realize this was specifically at me

I reject your premise that I was trying to pocket you because I'm not and I'm honestly not sure why you have that impression in the first place

[Nauci]

Quick has accused me of trying to pocket him before just because, as someone with experience playing with Quick, I kept trying to explain to everyone else what Quick is like, even though my explanations were always less than flattering

Maybe this is the same sort of thing

[Nauci]

Is nobody really gonna post right now

Not our faults you live in an assbackwards timezone.

I don't even understand why you would say this, jokingly or not

It was like 11 pm pst, a fairly reasonable hour to expect some people to be actively posting

With that said I went to bed at like 7 AM this morning so my understanding of normal and time zones is skewed af

[Nauci]

In other news, truth is probably scum

I don't think this is true but the entire time he's been posting I've been giggling at the hypothetical thought that every time he said his teammates disagree with him or told him something is a bad move it was because he's scum and his scum teammates are facepalming hard that he decided to run with this gambit and sort of deal then into it without even asking them if he should

[Nauci]

I am currently somewhat lost in this game because I do think popopopopo's past few pages are towny

I did a little bit of reading other players' ISOs trying to figure out where I would want to push next but haven't figured that out yet and de prioritized this game for one that is closer to deadline. I wanted to read previous games from GL, NBEE, and popopopopo before I try to assess it further since so much of the accusations being thrown around were meta-based, but haven't gotten to that yet because of aforementioned priority queue

Also endometriosis is murdering me today so I'm heading to bed early soon and will be back tomorrow

[Nauci]

I haven't seen too many people actually TRing Nauci.

Of the top of my head. GL does. I asked him to explain but i don’t think he did. There were others but can’t be assed to check the whole thread for that right now.

Norway, honestly I'm not really sure how scum me would respond, I'd probably at least at first play it more cool and be more dismissive to not draw attention, but I will fully admit if/when we did start 1v1ing I'd also be likely to turn on the snark and try to poke holes at your posts much like I've done a few times. I maybe would have acted a little angrier at the post where you said I "disappeared" when I went to bed? cause that'd be freebie emotional/political points to score as scum.

to be clear, I don't want to say you can't scumread me, but I'm the leading wagon so what you can do is at least dignify me with entertaining the idea of who is scum voting me in the event that I'm town. I honestly hadn't paid a ton of attention to your vote/push on Nauci, do you think she does the show of voting and then unvoting as scum? I don't tend to see that from scum on D1, and the paranoia about us committing theater felt genuine to me. She's also been riffing on the you/popopopoppopopoppopop dynamic being awkward which I fully agree with. I feel if both of you are town you should be trying to suss each other out more than you have been

Why is Nauci town again? I feel like she’s been taking safe stances

I think the way she went about de-escalating Quick v Osuka was both very pro-town in purpose and also in her way about doing it, I really don't see why a scum!Nauci would bother to provide evidence from a past osuka game to show why him flipping out is NAI. That doesn't serve scum at all unless he's literally her buddy

[Nauci]

But in a very short span she votes GL, unvotes him. Later she mentions GL in 493 but also is critical of Norwegian in 494 & 496. I’m not sure scum!Nauci unvotes GL and makes 494 & 496. This seems to me like town reconsidering between the two whereas scum would’ve parked the vote and called it a day.

But what IF bussing?

Lol

I'm no stranger to bussing but I'm pretty sure that even I wouldn't bus out of nowhere for no reason 2 days into day 1

[Nauci]

Disclaimer: I’m really bad at reading a bus’ing vote, but I wouldn’t consider that a bus’ing scenario for Nauci right there. I think the fact she place her vote on one side, then reconsidered it and pushed the side she had voted with is town intentions.

Hey buddy want to form a town block?

[Nauci]

also are we all just ignoring NDMath's completely useless catchup/entry?

I need to look into how he plays as town but that was a very scummy replace in

I agree with this completely but was waiting for him to be actually caught up

[Nauci]

GL you can join our town block if you'd like

[Nauci]

VOTE: Osuka

It's time to hangover post buddeh

[Nauci]

lion has some slightly scummy vibes if we're talking strictly meta

Explain

[Nauci]

My case on Nauci is that she seems to comment on things that aren't game related when there's content to analyze. I

Your whole case on me is based on me making light hearted irrelevant posts sometimes?

[Nauci]

Glitch, Truth is definitely not making it near LYLO so why don't you just focus on everybody else for now? That's why we're ignoring it—this slot WILL be resolved eventually but it's not terribly useful to do it today no matter how many scummy posts they make.

[Nauci]

It's predicated on your reading the thread without a scumhunting mindset

I feel like I have definitely done some scum hunting but I can admit that it's not up to my usual standards

But my SO just got an Oculus Quest so I'm going back to virtual base jumping for the night and tackling this game in full tomorrow

My vote on Osuka stands and is a serious one, however

Osuka's posts have been like... 50% to call Truth's posts dumb, a few observations here and there, and a stubborn misrepresentation that I'm trying to buddy them by simply explaining that his melodrama isn't alignment indicative, and none of that is particularly deep insight.

Like, I don't think there's any world where Osuka and Quick are scum together because I just refuse to believe that Osuka would be willing to theater with Quick, but I don't think that anything he's done since then it's worthy of a town read.

[Nauci]

If NDmath doesn’t post anything good soon i wouldn’t mind voting there tbh.

Agreed.

[Nauci]

Glitch, Truth is definitely not making it near LYLO so why don't you just focus on everybody else for now? That's why we're ignoring it—this slot WILL be resolved eventually but it's not terribly useful to do it today no matter how many scummy posts they make.

That's why I'm shifting gears to Popo and others. That said, it doesn't make sense to me why we shouldn't discuss something just because the majority has just dismissed it for tomorrow. If there's a legitimate concern that truth is scum, Ben the scummiest thing for his scum Partners to do would be to try and just put off the Mason discussion until further notice. It's not like it hurts the town at all to talk about these things. I'm opening up my discussion and evaluations two other players because it's obvious that we are not going to get a wagon formed on truth. But I really don't like your dismissal until tomorrow. I'll come back to that in a little bit and if truth ever what's scum this conversation will be important.

I'm on my way to work and I work in a breakfast and lunch restaurant. Father's Day is generally the busiest day of the year or close second to Mother's Day. Probably won't be back on until late this evening.

Why is it so difficult for you to understand that analyzing a slot which will be mechanically solved later in the game is a waste of time on Day 1 at best, and PR fishing to some degree at worst

[Nauci]

Wait, this was the townblock truth was talking about?

No

[Nauci]

This post shouldn't come from town and overall norwee is much townier in the norwee-lion interaction.

Why though?

[Nauci]

I don't buy you thought that it was very scummy unless you can be more specific as to why.

Considering how many of us picked up on that, idk why you'd think it was insincere

You post a catch up on posts from many days ago with no spectacular or original insights and then disappeared completely again without giving thoughts on anything past like, page 11

That's a pretty classic sign of demotivated scum posting this catch up was equally underwhelming and I hope in the next several pages you elaborated on your reads list

[Nauci]

On the one hand, i’d like to entertain the thought of me/GL being TvT. But i also don’t see that many other major leads than him today. So i’d still really like to lynch there.

We had more than 10 days left at the time of this post so what the hell is this sentiment even

If you don't see other leads maybe chase down some

[Nauci]

-You could want to stick with me and see if a popopopopopopopopop mislynch could go through without you, in which case a) GL looks bad and b) you can then play the 'I told you so, GL is scum!!' card on D2

Nah, i would just nightkill you buddy.

this post is weird, not to mention the fact that nking guilty in that scenario might be a bad idea to begin with

im not sure how i feel about glitch. looker has barely posted so i dont have a read there either

glitch in particular has posts that don't really ping me either way, but i should iso that slot and delve in a little deeper sometime soon

nauci might be scum and couldve been trying to pocket me or something, but now that ive voiced that thought she should give up on that front. doesn't mean she's not scum though

not quite sure how i feel about lion and popopopopoopopoopopppop. it's definitely not svs, maybe tvt (unlikely?) but probably tvs. not sure who the scum there is, though. lion has some slightly scummy vibes if we're talking strictly meta, but i'm not too sure there either

both these posts are really waffley and don't take any stances on anything. There's also more problems with later posts which I'll get to in a second

Oh good. 696 pinged hard as scummy to me, but I was worried it could be because of personal bias from the bit about me at the time.

[Nauci]

naucy is still playing a very weird game i think though

This comment amuses me greatly

You've only played 1 game with me, in which I was scum, and you were town reading me lol

So you need to elaborate and expand on this post a lot if you want me to believe anything other than that you are shading me without being able to come up with reasons, or that "weird" means different from our previous game together which means I'm playing differently than I did when I was scum

[Nauci]

It's bizarre to me that you think the only possible explanation for this game state is that I'm scum.

If i assume you are town then i have too many townreads and not enough scumreads on the other players.

That is where I was yesterday, so I took initiative to push on a slot that I wanted to know more about

I mean, you've been around here a lot more than I have, right? So why do you keep acting like you don't know how the game is played?

[Nauci]

Nauci's townblock thing was forced A F and didn't feel natural.

i agree with this. it did feel very weird

as i said a lot of nauci's play this game feels very odd

If I could double vote you for this kind of vague-shading, I would

[Nauci]

Well yeah. If all scum look like town because they are good at writing walls of text and faking genuine looking reactions then town will most likely lynch some town lurker or listen to advice from the scum about a player to lynch. (In which case, obviously they’d suggest lynching a town)

Scum don't have to be the Towniest people in the game to win. They just have to be less Scummy than someone else. That's why Scum push easy things. Because pushing easy things gets those players lynched. Like, if you actually observe the good Scum players you will see they care way more about lynching Town than looking Townie. I'm not just pulling this out of my ass either. This stuff is pretty established on many Mafia sites.

You know, Quick, this is the most clear and comprehensible I've ever seen you post and I appreciate the improvement to your play immensely

I hope that everyone in this conversation doesn't use it as an opportunity to devolve into IIOA spam though

[Nauci]

Let’s make it a bet. If Nauci is scum i win the argument. Because they are playing "like town" according to you. But i disagree there isn’t the possibility of scum playing like town to avoid getting lynched.

The way your reads are evolving from "I have a few reasons to be suspicious of X" to full blown tunneling is beginning to feel really suspicious, bro

Like, what do you actually think I've done is scummy, versus just... Not having Towned harder? Because your case went from I might be scum because I townread GL, who you were dead sure is scum, to even if GL is town I'm probably scum because I may have been trying to buddy him? Now, when people point out reasons they town read me, you're tripling down on the scum read because I could be faking the towny posts?

Like, I don't care that you're scum reading me but it's very odd how much you keep taking them from suspicion to full confidence reads for no reason. I mean, are you going to take Osuka's input of "she sounds weird" as evidence? Because she's only seen me as scum, in the one game, and didn't think I sounded whatever "weird" means then.

GL and popopo: is this sort of tunneling typical for NBEE?

P.S. my town block posts were a facetious way for me to hand out town reads. Also I stand by those town reads.

[Nauci]

Scratch is scummy independently though, his early play was intentionally inoffensive and his hop on my wagon was very bad.

I literally just played a game with scratch scum which ended right after this game started - https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... er_sort=Go - and they felt way more scummy and bland/intentionally inoffensive there than they do here.

I actually give them a fair amount of towncred for the way they scumread me early because I was posting/efforting so much in the other Blitz game as it was ending and hadn't started doing my thing yet here. That made sense from a town mindset

meta means very little to me, i dont really use it, it can be twisted and manipulated by both the player themselves from game to game and by people using it to back up points.

That post was not about meta though...

He was saying he hadn't effort posted here yet because he was wrapping up that game.

[Nauci]

i felt like nauci had been trying to pocket me for a bit there though and she only started pushing me after i called that out, which i found even weirder

Would you ever like to expand on why you think I'm being "weird" or was supposedly trying to pocket you?

I have no idea what you're referring to. I cleared up your meta so that it wouldn't be easy for scum to push your outbursts as low hanging fruit because that benefits town, but I never gave you a town read or was particularly nice to you

[Nauci]

The other thing I don't like about popoppopoopoppopo's vote:

You previously said Nauci was "forced as fuck" and were voting her. Then she quotes one, yes ONE, post of mine she doesn't like, and votes me, and your response is to put me at L-2 with no hesitation? Did your read on Nauci change? Do you think she just decided to lolbus me cause Norway wants to play like he's some RVS god, even though I later linked a game where I opened the exact same way as town? It seems pretty dissonant to me!

VOTE: popopopopopo

This post claiming issues with my vote is leaving out the VITAL fact that I am norwe's vote slave. In doing that, he completely misrepresented my supposed reasoning for switching votes. The push feels fake and based off a misrep. Norwe was cranking the pressure up pretty hard my man guilty needed a release.

VOTE: popopopopopopo

He feels like he doesn't care. I also saw some reasons from tiger cat that I liked.

i mean who tf knows with this guy. He wants to nolynch, then he wants to quick lynch. Idk his alignment but certified VI

I agree with everything here.

VOTE: popopo

This was quick vote on me i fucked up the tags
I've only played with quikc town. in those games he was prone to crackpot theories, unorthodox pushes like he was going at truth with. BUT This vote is very weak especially after all his other interactions he hops on me with GL because of GLs bad and misrepping post.

VOTE: popo

Lol ill be phone posting all weekend but look at this dudes iso its all townreads and then a naked hop on me. Could be the worst vote on my wagon. This guy is straight cruising and found an easy spot to park his vote but I ain't mislynch bait like that bro.

LicketyQuickety - town lean his vote on me was bad but quick likes an illogical bad push as much as anyone so it doesnt surprise me he voted me. his incessant pushing on truth early feels town motivated coming from this particular player.
NorwegianboyEE - town lean i explained already
Looker - town lean responded well to my request for reads even if we dont completely agree
osuka - null town feels like a saudade type player where he just calls people retards and argues. hard to read, but the argument with truth seemed genuine enough
Truth - any read i have is irrelevant, mechanics will sort. im more inclined to believe the claim than not.
Glitch - null seems like a noob. i find this type of player hard to sort. at least looks like hes trying.
Nauci - null his early posts pinged me as forced, he has been posting more thoughtfully since.
Candy Shop - null dont really have an impression of this slot, this is the NL guy right? ok i checked his ISO. idk
ndmath - null no impression of this slot
mavsfan41 - null-scum him coming in with a vote immediately after i call him out is not a good look
GuiltyLion - scum lean i explained
Cat Scratch Fever - scummy his vote was opportunistic and his iso has been bad, handing out townreads like candy and little scumreads is mafia indicative especially early game

Looker - town lean responded well to my request for reads even if we dont completely agree

Are you talking about this?

Spoiler:

Most informational flip: GuiltyLion
Secondary options: LicketyQuickety / NorwegianboyEE
Gray Area/Reasons I'm not ready to end the day: Glitch / Candy Shop / Mavsfan / Cat Scratch Fever / rozyrozNDMath / Osuka
Comfortable with delaying inspection: Truth / popopopo / Nauci

Looker didn't even give reads - he just said which slots were good info lynches?

yes thats what I was talking about.

mavsfan41 - null-scum him coming in with a vote immediately after i call him out is not a good look

Why is this weird? He said he was in the middle of catching up earlier.

the timing is suspicious. It could also be a coincidence i grant u.

Cat Scratch Fever - scummy his vote was opportunistic and his iso has been bad, handing out townreads like candy and little scumreads is mafia indicative especially early game

Which townreads do you disagree with?

Its less about me disagreeing with them that it is the way you hand them out.

Cat scratch leans town on quick and nauci, then he semi- walks back the nauci read after a light prod by norwe (203). Then he town reads norwe and osuka, and hops on guilty for no real reason

lol this game is going to be a clash of egos huh

I'm townreading Norway and I think osuka is townish. Still think Quick is prob town but he seems to have trouble getting his point across

VOTE: guiltylion

Notice he doesnt call guilty scum here. Doesn't really provide a reason for his vote at all.

In fact cat scratch never calls GL scum, except he does post this

I think Quick and Osuka are TvT right now, and this back and forth is rapidly growing tiring to follow. Why don't we all hug it out and vote GuiltyLion or something

So here there is a push for more votes on guilty. He's never called guilty even scummy tho? But he's voted for him and called for others to vote him. Then he votes for me, with no explanation of either his original guilty read or his new vote on me. He provided a reason for the vote on me when I pressed him.

I'd vote cat but guilty is likely his partner so ill stick with nii chan for now

BTW cats vote on me was sheeping GLs attack on me after already voting for GL and calling for others to vote there. A bizarre turnaround.

So GL OMGUSd me and started a counter wagon to deflect attention and his partner cat hopped on innocuously a couple votes in?
Sometimes its just that easy

vote: cat scratch

GL last couple pages was ok

after sleeping on it and the last back and forth im not as confident on the GL/cat scratch scumteam. Scratch is scummy independently though, his early play was intentionally inoffensive and his hop on my wagon was very bad.

I still think lions push one me is bad, but his aw shucks demeanor and trying to see things from norwes POV make me feel less strongly about it. I'd like more votes on cat his iso pre voting me is very poor as I've laid out.

Considering how all of these posts from popopopopo talk about why he scumreads CSF, I don't think I buy that you genuinely think it was exclusively because he thought that voteslaving would get him lynched that he voted elsewhere, Glitch.

[Nauci]

@Quickety: so it’s not only that he sheep’ed you, that’s just one component. It’s that he switched off GuiltyLion to develop a SR very quickly on Nauci and only voted AFTER osuka’s 761 as a response to that post. I think town!Norwegian votes Nauci before osuka’s post. That felt like he was worried he might appear scummy to vote Nauci but after osuka’s post, felt like he could much easily defend his vote or play it off if challenged on it.

Problem is, I was calling GL Town the whole time Norway was pushing him. I literally stepped in and got in the way of Norway's tunnel to get him to go after someone else.

So my argument is that scum!Norweigan after pushing GuiltyLion on TWO separate occasions realized he wasn’t going to get a mislynch then rapidly picked some other target in Nauci off your post, then only after getting approval from two different people (you and osuka), actually voted Nauci. I.E. Norwegian didn’t appear to be SR’ing Nauci before your post but somehow decides to vote her like 5 posts later after seeing that two other people are possibly SR’ing her. That doesn’t seem off to you?

I keep feeling like his posts are sort of scummy with the rapid escalation into tunneling and whatnot, but I'm feeling rather WIFOM about it all because I don't think NBEE would be quite so lazy and resigned as scum (at least, that's how I felt about his "let's just lunch GL" post).

[Nauci]

That's a cool quote wall but it's a misrep of what I said in 812

And if you're scum you've been

planning your easy slide out of sheeping Norway to vote a nice easy one on Cat Scratch as you've planted shallow reasoning for Cat to be on your scum list

since 536.

popo knew his time was coming to abandon ship with the vote slave drama and if he's town he's genuinely been reading CSF scummy for a long time and therefore voted when he got off the vote slave ship,

or

he's scum and he's been planning carefully how to get off this vote slave ship since 536.

lean scum so my vote stays on him until I go back and re-read through some past stuff particularly on GL that I've been wanting to do for a while, and hopefully I'll be able to get in a full read in of the whole thread tonight.

Hmm that's fair and apologize for misinterpreting you.

If you're scumreading him for shallow reads though, what do you think of my points about Osuka?

[Nauci]

I'm not understanding the attacks on osuka.

What's there to not understand?

Osuka's posts comprise of the brief fight with Quick, a lot of posts facepalming at Truth which are mostly meaningless, and a very lazy and unsubstantiated push on me.

I scumreads the way that Osuka talks about my posting as "weird" repeatedly without ever explaining weird how—it's exactly the kind of shallow shade throwing without being able to come up with a proper case/narrative that signifies scum pushes vs town ones, especially at an opportune time when others like CSF were FoSing me.

He has repeatedly tried to misconstrue the way I have tried to explain his meta to the game as buddying, even though I've repeatedly told him and everyone else why I said what I did about him and wasn't at buddying. He's not engaging with my push at all or answering my question.

[Nauci]

Yeah, good point. Nothing I wouldn't call SvS either...

As in Osuka and I or?

Lol

[Nauci]

Yeah, good point. Nothing I wouldn't call SvS either...

As in Osuka and I or?

Lol

YUP!

Then why don't you help flip Osuka to test your theory

[Nauci]

I don't have a case or anything, but my gut says Glitch is Scum currently.

VOTE: Glitch

It's bizarre to me that you think the only possible explanation for this game state is that I'm scum.

If i assume you are town then i have too many townreads and not enough scumreads on the other players.

Some thoughts...

Go after people like Looker, glitch and Nauci.

Nauci's townblock thing was forced A F and didn't feel natural.

I'm on the fence with nauci, but Glitch has been like, "almost not fakable content" the whole time. I also hate that he seems to be a wagon hopper.

Unlike Glitch's walls, NDmath's are actually quite Townie and I like what I am seeing there. I get there will be paranoia on a wall poster who doesn't post a lot, but honestly, that's not a slot I think is Scum until later in the game when things get more intense.

Outside of these posts, did I miss one where you cased Glitch?

I'm not sure if I'm seeing what you're seeing and I'm certainly not seeing what you're saying is a huge distinction between Glitch and NDMath, both of whom are big fat nulls for me. Can you explain?

[Nauci]

So I went to look for an Osuka town game in case their posting is always sort of this shallow, and while this is obviously not an exhaustive case with a large sample size, here's what I saw so far:

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... ct[]=30137

Osuka ISO from Mini Normal 1989, Mafia 2-Shot Roleblocker

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... ct[]=30137

Osuka ISO from Newbie 1850, Town Cop

(Goddamnit why would this forum put [ and ] in URLs this post was such a bitch to format especially from phone)

The scum ISO had a lot of posts discussing setup spec or mafia theory or otherwise IIOA, and a lot of posts with short snippets with shallow scum or town reads

The town ISO had posts which had some substance, like these:

rip I submitted by accident

cont'd:

the slot's ISO is literally just a lot of questions, and there are interactions with everyone - but only three times since #133 has the slot actually said something of substance about how the game looks from its pov

this is the kind of playstyle that looks town most of the time but is really more likely to come from scum (as they aren't actually providing a lot of content, they're making other people do so). I myself might be a little guilty of not providing as much content as the game would like but i've been really busy with school

above is not only directed @elfiis, but also @vort and @(anyone else who thinks the slot is town)

finally: upon closer scrutiny, I feel like the lemon wagon is kinda bullshit and very likely has scum motivation behind it

very early in the game the slot got shit for an rvs vote and that's how the wagon got started. that's a really shitty reason for you to wagon a slot

the slot has solid posts in #155, #159 (especially the second part), #172 (which is a strong reply), #179, and #199 (other than the first line that sounds weird)

@everyone in the wagon: can you tell me exactly why you're about to lynch the slot?

since there's not much time left, while waiting for lemon to respond to my 194 I'll also just lay out the problem I have with lemon and the way he's approaching Ico:

I feel like Ico is tunneling me a bit, but despite that I quite like his posts. It feels like they're trying to push the game forward with their posts, which is always good, and they make some valid points.

The only thing about him that makes me pause is him reacting to me answering Yankee. I don't know how he read that as me helping scumYankee out, and he still hasn't acknowladged the misunderstanding of the question, if anything it feels like he's ignoring it. I really want to see what he has to say about it.

lemon said it was "interesting" how Ico "spun" him as helping scum!Yankee, but this "interesting" thing doesn't seem to have shaped his read at all. Lemon repeatedly

says

that he's curious how Ico would acknowledge/respond to this point, but his actions don't really indicate it - he's still townreading Ico, he isn't really pushing or diving into the heart of Ico misunderstanding him, and further just mostly concludes that he thinks Ico is town tunneling.

I'm having a hard time seeing this as more likely to come from town - if townies were townreading someone who was misreading them due to a misunderstanding, they'd point out the misunderstanding and try to work with the other player to get them to re-evaluate with that in mind. If the other player continued to push incorrectly, I think townies would be less certain about the intentions behind that push - but lemonator feels to me like he's scared to scumread Ico.

on the other hand, scum!lemon may be more likely to try to both simultaneously shade and defuse the situation in the way he has tried to do here. He wants other players to doubt Ico based on this misunderstanding (124), but doesn't want to commit to a read change or risk further aggression from a town!Ico himself (172).

I get the sense that lemon does believe Ico is town - but not because he's townreading him as a result of his play, but rather because he just knows ahead of time that Ico is in fact town tunneling onto him. And one other point about this bit:

Ico, I feel like you've already decided I'm scum and are trying to make my posts fit your narrative. I lean more toward you being town tunneling me rather than scum, but it's pretty worrying to me.

This is actually a sneaky good post to make as scum, because it can be entirely true! Ico might be trying to make lemon's posts fit Ico's narrative, but that doesn't actually mean that lemon is town, it doesn't say anything about the truth of lemon's alignment. You could post this as scum and be 100% honest in doing so, it's the type of posting I try to gravitate towards when I am scum.

this post is actually kind of disgusting in disguise right

at first it doesn't look like much, but the longer you stare at it for, the worst it smells. things that stood out to me:

since there's not much time left

we really aren't that close to deadline, are we? 5 days and some is nearly half of it; i wouldn't even

start

to worry about it until there were 3 days on the clock or so

lemon said it was "interesting" how Ico "spun" him as helping scum!Yankee, but this "interesting" thing doesn't seem to have shaped his read at all. Lemon repeatedly

says

that he's curious how Ico would acknowledge/respond to this point, but his actions don't really indicate it - he's still townreading Ico, he isn't really pushing or diving into the heart of Ico misunderstanding him, and further just mostly concludes that he thinks Ico is town tunneling.

I'm having a hard time seeing this as more likely to come from town - if townies were townreading someone who was misreading them due to a misunderstanding, they'd point out the misunderstanding and try to work with the other player to get them to re-evaluate with that in mind. If the other player continued to push incorrectly, I think townies would be less certain about the intentions behind that push - but lemonator feels to me like he's scared to scumread Ico.

he's repeatedly prompted ico for a response, which he never really got - just because someone tunnels you (as town), it doesn't mean you have to scumread them

on the other hand, scum!lemon may be more likely to try to both simultaneously shade and defuse the situation in the way he has tried to do here. He wants other players to doubt Ico based on this misunderstanding (124), but doesn't want to commit to a read change or risk further aggression from a town!Ico himself (172).

except this never actually happen, did it? he didn't try to defuse the situation at all - he has been asking essentially the same unanswered questions for about 70 posts or so. I'd really like to see a transparent reply to his questions, too

*drumroll*

and here ladies and gentlemen we have the scummiest spin of the century

This is actually a sneaky good post to make as scum, because it can be entirely true! Ico might be trying to make lemon's posts fit Ico's narrative, but that doesn't actually mean that lemon is town, it doesn't say anything about the truth of lemon's alignment. You could post this as scum and be 100% honest in doing so, it's the type of posting I try to gravitate towards when I am scum.

you picked out a quote that was kinda weird, and then essentially went "he's scum for saying that! but that could also come from town! and it doesn't say anything about the truth of his alignment! but he's scum for doing that because that's what i do!"

this is actual garbage
VOTE: guiltylion

What I'm seeing is that accusing people of buddying or calling their posts "weird" isn't alignment indicative for Osuka, but in the town game, Osuka had no issues back up those accusations with precisely which posts he thought fit the bill and why they pinged him as scummy.

[Nauci]

Sure, I'll explain. If you keep soft defending Glitch, you are Scum with him.

Glitch's content has been objectively bad not really offering any new insights, and generally just jumping on the next popular wagon.

How was I defending Glitch in any way?

I don't town read Glitch, I have them as null because I don't have a read on the slot.

I see that you have a strong enough scum read there to vote him and maintain that vote despite being suspicious of Osuka and suspicious of me, so I went to find your case on Glitch and see if it had merit.

All I really found was that you gut scum read him and think that his wallposts are scummier than NDMath, so I'm asking you why you think so. If you're town and you think he's scum and you want more people to vote there, why is it scummy if I ask you for your case? Why is your response just to get defensive and accuse me of being scum with Glitch? Hell I don't even know what your read on me is because you've gone from defending me to Osuka, to suspecting me as scum with Osuka, to now suspecting me as scum with Glitch?

I think that the cases and votes are all over the place right now while many town don't have good reads on anything so I'm casing my scum read and trying to build a wagon while asking you to do the same.

[Nauci]

@mavs What do you make of Osuka?

Pending some more research on NBEE, I think that we're more likely to hit scum there than NBEE for aforementioned WIFOM reasons. Do you disagree?

@GuiltyLion you were in that newbie game with Osuka, so what's your take on my read?

[Nauci]

Don't know why i'm getting shaded for Osuka agreeing with me anyway. Here's a news flash, i don't scumread Osuka. My go to scumreads with the assumption of GL!Town right now are Nauci and Glitch.

Are you town reading Osuka?

[Nauci]

Oof this town is in bad shape with people so all over the place

@Truth how has your read on Osuka evolved since you moved your vote off of him?

@quick: since no one so currently voting with you to create a real sense of pressure, why don't you move to any of your other scum reads which have more traction?

@Mod

popopopopopopo is voting Cat Scratch Fever as of 678

Fixed, thanks.
~Deimos

[Nauci]

@looker you seem to have stopped interesting with GL and have been suspecting other players since your vote. Has your read on him changed since then, or is he still your top scum read?

@NDMath you said you were fully caught up, right? Why are you still not voting?

[Nauci]

It’s not unlike what Blair got him for in our most recent game together and I read that interaction the same exact way.

I don't think that's the game I was in so can you explain this?

Unless you were referring to Blair v Quick here?

[Nauci]

I'd love to hear from GuiltyLion about those tunnel pivots from Norwegian—it feels so bizarre to me that maybe it's just his style as town because scum would surely be self conscious about the optics around that.

[Nauci]

Here’s the timeline I’m seeing -> votes GuiltyLion -> multi-page battle -> still thinks GuiltyLion is scum -> multi-page battle -> asked by me if you still think GuiltyLion is scum after the second multi-page battle where you say yes -> Quickety is like, nah, here’s a list of people to go after instead -> you pick one and have a few post why they’re scummy -> osuka is like sure, they seem scummy -> votes Nauci.

I might be hard headed at times. But i’m also a realist. Since there’s not enough support for lynching my main scumread it’s natural to switch somewhere else. Otherwise i’d be no better than Candy Shop. Just wasting away their slot by no lynching like a noob.

If you didn't like the fact that i'm now voting Nauci that's fine. But don't give me that "Omg you changed your vote from your main scumread that's SOOO scummy!" bullshit.

I don't think that's what he was saying either of the times he's explained his scum read on you. This seems like a clumsy misrep to me.

[Nauci]

@nauci I’m being lazy and I need to stop being lazy tbh. I’ll put more effort in tonight after work, but if you wanna see a lazy town game from me look at the large normal I played a while back (world record mafia - large 213?)

Okay but even if you don't have the bandwidth to effort post about everyone, what if you started with just explaining what you meant by "weird" and why

[Nauci]

@Truth how has your read on Osuka evolved since you moved your vote off of him?

I still don't like him. My suspects are po, osuka, and maybe Glitch. Do you want me to vote for osuka again?

That would be more useful than Town continuing to go in 7 different directions and not applying real pressure anywhere

Also I think Osuka is scum, so yes

[Nauci]

@nauci I’m being lazy and I need to stop being lazy tbh. I’ll put more effort in tonight after work, but if you wanna see a lazy town game from me look at the large normal I played a while back (world record mafia - large 213?)

Okay but even if you don't have the bandwidth to effort post about everyone, what if you started with just explaining what you meant by "weird" and why

originally i had a slight tr on you but at some point it went from trying to defuse the situation between me and quick to trying a bit too hard to do that. that's when it started pinging me

i'll iso you soon(tm) and i'll post updates

FWIW, I tried to explain Quick the same way I tried to explain you this game

Quick was super suspicious that I was trying to buddy him as a result of it in that game until I was NKed N1

I would have been suspicious that he DIDN'T accuse me of buddying him this game for doing similar things, except he literally just saw me flip town after doing the same thing, so it should quell his paranoia.

Spoiler: Some Examples of Posts From the Aforementioned Interactions

Quick, it would be enormously helpful if you would spend less time trying to cultivate your "WoOoOo I'm SuCh A mYsTeRiOuS eNiGmA" meta for future games and more time trying to help us find scum in this one.

In my experience with Quick and trying to read his past games to figure out his meta for said previous game with Quick, he's never really intentionally being enigmatic. It's more like his trains of thought are very different from any that I've ever had, they make total sense to him, but he only ever says such a small portion of his thoughts out loud that all I ever surmise about his theories is ?????

Page 15 makes me want to facepalm so hard

But also it is the most Stereoquickipal behavior I've ever seen. It's one of his top 3 schticks to aggressively misinterpret someone and then make a whole truck load of posts with that misinterpretation as the premise.

Quick: Blair is saying you were lying because you, on 3 separate occasions, claimed you purposely post enigmatically/mysteriously, and then in the 4th post claimed that you were NOT trying to be cryptic, which totally contradicts the previous 3 posts

Blair: I think that Quick both meant what he said the first 3 times, and what he said with that last bit, because A: the part about him NOT trying to be cryptic was referring to a very specific subset of his posts, and B: he sometimes owns the fact that he's unintentionally cryptic because he doesn't explain his theories well enough, but sometimes he also says that this happens because he's intentionally being mysterious. It's the sort of thing that has gotten him mislynched many a time. I think that if you're going to scum read him, you have to go a bit deeper than surface contradictions.

If your meta is violently anti-town, that doesn't really persuade me to keep you around anyway.

okay that's fair but can it persuade you into pursuing investigations into things that are less shallow and more productive instead of litigating "Quick sometimes says he's mysterious and sometimes admits he's not intentionally mysterious" ad nauseum

I feel like I've been stating what I know about Quick from previous experience with him and I don't exactly know why that's pocketing because not a whole lot of what I said was positive... But hey if you feel complimented by just the accuracy of a description then suit yourself?

It's at most NAI behavior from me but I extremely do not understand why I keep getting accused of buddying just because I want players to evaluate based on real reasons and also deprive scum of low hanging fruit lynchbait NAI habits

[Nauci]

6 - I feel it's kinda clear? None of your post by post comments lead me to understand how you then created that readslist. Largely because of my issues in point 5, I can't trace a clear train of thought from "here's my thoughts as I'm reading the game" -> "here's how my reads got to be where they are".

This is precisely how I felt about that list appearing after a bunch of quotes and comments which didn't elucidate any of the read list, to the point where I didn't know whether the list was in ascending or descending order

[Nauci]

@GuiltyLion you were in that newbie game with Osuka, so what's your take on my read?

I totally agree with it and am glad you cased it as explicitly as you did. If I'm trying to be charitable to osuka, mayyyybe he might have gotten lazier over the years since it's a somewhat old game, but that doesn't negate the fact that his shade towards you (as well as myself) here WAS vague and he's clearly someone with enough experience/capability to bring receipts.

The newbie game Osuka and I were in just finished, and even though Osuka replaced in halfway through D1 and out halfway through D2, there was significantly more meaty content there. He was wrong about all of it because he was 700% sure that scum was 2 people who definitely weren't scum, but when he raged at them he was still quoting and explaining his reasons more.

Spoiler: Osuka Posts from Newbie 2004

Unless feather is super manipulative, it doesn't seem like he would be coordinated enough to pretend to be new, ask all these pertinent questions, and play the scum role so well. For that I think he is VT.
Gibus is sus to me because of all the vote switching and random accusations. I stand by my opinion about it being sloppy and thats all I can come up with atm. My thought is whether or not you're scum in a newbie game, you don't want to draw attention, by trying to be casual that person becomes more suspicious by their fake nonchalance. of course, in opposition to this is people who don't interact are also sus so like ironcat said, its a catch 22. So if the scum is nervous about appearing one way or the other, it might be easiest to be quiet for the time being.
speaking of ironcat, im on the fence. Post #193 he says he’s okay with votato’s disagreement. I am less suspicious of people who aren’t afraid of standing in opposition to someone like votato who has strong, and well thought out opinions because it reads to me that he isn’t trying to cover up something – his opinion is what it is. His exchange with fish made him look even less suspicious, perhaps only in contrast to whatever was going on with fish and his frustrations. Then again, #243 was a childish rebuttal, but that doesn’t scream scum to me necessarily.
I don’t know how to read brass, votato or Lilith. Brass and votato seem genuinely interested in seeing the game progress in a dynamic manner, while helping people learn along the way. if one of them happen to be scum, they haven’t seemed to let on that they are going to take advantage of people’s feelings of ‘trust worthiness’….yet, but I guess that’s the point, right? Lol.
Lilith hasn’t posted much lately, has she? I wonder why. Ive been suspicious of her without being able to collect my thoughts or any evidence (if in fact there is any) against her yet.
Copycat hasn’t struck me as one way or the other. We also don’t have any point of reference from the previous slot holder…lililil (right?) I wonder if, if that was a scum role cat stepped into, lililil wasn’t active at all before, so im assuming the scum buddy wouldn’t have had help from him either…makes me wonder what it was like as a lone scum and who was looking for a replacement.

that read on feather is a fucking stretch and a half, innit

this feels like a post that's supposed to look like it's good content, but it strikes me as particularly shallow. very noncommittal and truly exceptionally bland

that puts copykat on L-2. Nauci how do you reconcile your top 2 scum reads scum reading each other? Are we just bussing hard? Pretty meh catchup, speaking of iioa

this is completely out of touch with reality and the fact that his two scumreads scumread each other means nothing. Her post was pretty okay and yours is a sad accusation based on a fabricated premise

i liked you for town before but now I'm not so sure

she's trying to pocket me by pointing out me being upset was justified.

Actually I was just saying you were justified as an indirect dig at the post you were talking about because I had run out of direct ways to express it

this strikes me as a particularly snarky way to dodge a response. very odd

I'm sorry I wasn't clear

Oh thats ok, i actually have a list, in my head. So maybe not a list, but an idea.

And newbie as in replacement. I even had that word in my head instead of newbie to be more clear with my objection, but you know, stoned.

this is an obvious attempt at amending a previous post where he said something ("leave the newbie alone, you monsters") and got himself in a bad place ("why are you protecting the guy?"). have you ever seen anyone use "newbie" to mean someone who just replaced in? I know i have never

i'm not quibbling over words. I'm saying that what you did and what I did aren't the same and particularly, the

way

you did what you did and handled yourself when prompted was the primary reason for concern

to elaborate, 758 is weird but it is an order of magnitude retroactively more weird after 762

i'm not sure how i feel about formerfish at the moment. i have thoughts there but im a bit conflicted

more specifically, he clearly knows how to play the game and that kind of play, in general, is nai. I don't see anything glaring so far but i have to admit to not having delved too deep into his play at this point. regardless, he's a bad lynch d1 because if he is town (and statistically, that's bound to be the case) he's definitely someone i wanna have alive

Which reminds me, @Osuka can you explain your read on freddie? All I can find in your ISO is that you called one of her posts bland? Also, are you scumreading formerfish?

i'll get you some post numbers from freddie in a second here, i'm still catching up to the thread.

345 is a bad post that

seems

good at first glance. it's not quite iioa but it's very shallow and feels fabricated, almost as if she was forcing herself to form something remotely resembling a natural read

585 is bad wifom. like wifom and bad reasoning had a kid and it was a terrible, terrible post

886 is a shit tier dodge

893 is unnecessarily defensive and clearly uncomfortable

898 is apologetic. the apologetic, almost friendly tone can be found in other posts and it screams "let me be your friend, fellow townie"

937 is full of bad justifications for bad decisions

969 brings back the apologetic tone in full force

i made the same comment about 345 because i was prompted about it. the way you behave is more than enough justification for a scumread, and 993 is prima facie of a scum role PM

you're WAY too defensive in a deflective way, characteristic of newbscum. talk about substance - what is the substance in your post (and with an omgus to top it off, no less)? I don't have to post a paragraph full of adjectives to justify my scumread, because your posts and tone speak for themselves

to all the newbies in the game, 993 does not come from town. I'm 100% ready to lynch this slot now

Here's a smattering of the posts from that game which I thought were significantly meatier, and I scrolled less than halfway through Osuka's 206 posts made over the course of two half game days. Even when Osuka is calling things "weird," he brought some receipts, to steal your phrase. Not only did he react to specific posts constantly, he reacted to them almost immediately in real time instead of making accusations about posts from dozens of pages ago without pointing out specifically which ones.

A ton of the 206 posts in that game were fluff or calling posts stupid like he did here, but there was, IMO, way more substance on top of those.

[Nauci]

popopopopopopo (2): Truth, Glitch
Nauci (2): Cat Scratch Fever, NorwegianboyEE
osuka (2): Nauci, GuiltyLion
GuiltyLion (1): Looker
LicketyQuickety (1): osuka
Cat Scratch Fever (1): popopopopopopo
Glitch (1): LicketyQuickety
NorwegianboyEE (1): mavsfan41
No Lynch (1): Candy Shop

Not Voting (1): NDMath

Let’s consolidate. This spread of votes is ridiculous. Nobod TR’s NDMath right?

So instead of voting for anyone of the players with 2 votes already, you're going to start a whole new wagon for someone with no votes on them yet?

[Nauci]

I think town!Norwegian votes Nauci before osuka’s post. That felt like he was worried he might appear scummy to vote Nauci but after osuka’s post, felt like he could much easily defend his vote or play it off if challenged on it.

I can see where you're coming from here but I kinda just think it's more that Norway's been embarrassed to directly confront and admit the slow but inevitable dawning realization that I am town

B-BAKA! It's not like I have any reasons to town read you or anything! I just wanted to find scum somewhere else!

FTFY

[Nauci]

popopopopopopo (2): Truth, Glitch
Nauci (2): Cat Scratch Fever, NorwegianboyEE
osuka (2): Nauci, GuiltyLion
GuiltyLion (1): Looker
LicketyQuickety (1): osuka
Cat Scratch Fever (1): popopopopopopo
Glitch (1): LicketyQuickety
NorwegianboyEE (1): mavsfan41
No Lynch (1): Candy Shop

Not Voting (1): NDMath

Let’s consolidate. This spread of votes is ridiculous. Nobod TR’s NDMath right?

So instead of voting for anyone of the players with 2 votes already, you're going to start a whole new wagon for someone with no votes on them yet?

Yeh, what r you gonna do about it?

Scumread you a little for that

[Nauci]

I would understand if you had a very strong read on NDMath for you to go vanity wagon, but you just went from scum reading me to dropping all of your scum reads and voting someone who you previous had no opinion on immediately after acknowledging that town is in bad shape because it's all over the place

I don't know what to make of it other than that you are purposely leaning into the TSTBS act at this point and trying to continue leading town around chaotically

Why would you not vote Osuka if you have no town read there either and you're now presumably town reading GL and I because we are definitely two of the talkiest ones?

[Nauci]

VOTE: NDMath

Fine

GL you may as well move too since we have the same suspicions of NDMath

[Nauci]

That's fair but NDMath

has

said stuff since you made that comment; what did you make of it?

It came right after our 719/720 so it felt like he was Beetlejuicing tbh

[Nauci]

I was unsure about Quick halfway through this day but I think I can comfortably give him a townlean/town read now.

[Nauci]

Quick is town, but that doesn’t mean he’s always right.

That went without saying

[Nauci]

@Mod: I'm V/LA for a day

[Nauci]

are there any philosophers that arent old white dudes or nah

Ya there were some young ones too

[Nauci]

Oh my gosh yay; hi Blair!

[Nauci]

Quick

question - if I do this, will I die?

You answered your own question

[Nauci]

My former industry is currently going through #metooV2 and I am completely bandwidth depleted from this so I may not be active until Thursday/Friday tbh

[Nauci]

Hello I am prodging

I've been using the last 48 hours to help initiate a movement to yeet 2 serial sexual predators out of a community and hopefully into the fucking sun

Wait did NDMath replace out or does he just still actually have 10 total posts

[Nauci]

1200+ posts isn't nearly enough to have any opinions or narrow our PoE at all, every lynch is still equally up for consideration and any attempts to consolidate wagons will be prosecuted with extreme prejudice

This is why you were immediately one of my favorite players on the whole site

[Nauci]

I've been up for 46 hours straight now so can I be lazy and just sheep Blair/GuiltyLion/NBEE

just tell me where to vote

[Nauci]

I've been up for 46 hours straight now so can I be lazy and just sheep Blair/GuiltyLion/NBEE

just tell me where to vote

Please be advised we are wagoning CSF, NDMath, and Osuka.

The Osuka wagon kind of feels like it came out of nowhere to become a front runner to me.

That's bizarre because I spent like fucking 8 pages trying to make one happen and it was like pulling teeth

VOTE: Osuka

[Nauci]

I think you will find it difficult to demonstrate from my ISO that I am advocating for shortening the day.

I am advocating for narrowing our lynch pool and rolling our sleeves up to get serious about who we are going to lynch today, because these things take time and it's usually good practice for town to have a pretty good idea of who the lynch will be between by this point in the day.

Blair I thought you would know by now that we don't engage with Quick, we just sort him by his crackpot theories and pat him on the head

[Nauci]

As of like 15 pages ago I felt very confident that GL is town and somewhat confident that Osuka is scum

Did any major developments happen which indicate otherwise

[Nauci]

Can we get a lynch already HOLY-FREAKING-CRAP!

Hi I'm not caught up at all but if it's between Osuka who claimed VT and CSF I actually lean CSF if Blair is there

I promise to catch up late tonight and actually give a serious read within the next 12 hours though!

[Nauci]

Wait did I *just* miss hammer god damnit

[Nauci]

I'm so sorry I wasn't around for the last several days I will make it up to town I promise

[Nauci]

As you guys know, I always roll town, and this game is no exception

Boy I hope this is the first game I get to see you as town in a long, long time

[Nauci]

I think the right move here is for us to collectively decide who Popo should shoot tonight. This effectively gives us two lynches today -

unless he's lying, in which case the real vigilante will shoot him.

If

popo is getting vigged

, then I think we should lynch blair.

Slip?

VOTE: LicketyQuickety

What on god's green earth is happening hol' up let me catch up

did a vig shoot CSF that's so sad man

[Nauci]

Shoot, I forgot the new site vernacular.

I’ll try again: Quick is canceled!

I literally spent the past week canceling actual sexual predators and idk if I can even make this joke lmao

(For real though one guy wrote "FYI it takes a lot more than just a blink of an eye and cheap small talk to erect my penis." as part of his defense statement.)

[Nauci]

How are we not starting with this VOTE: NDMath

[Nauci]

Sorry to hear that, Nauci. Is it at least behind you now, I hope?

It was very little skin off of my back I was protecting many other women but now he has permanently earned a place in the mega roast hall of fame and "FYI it takes more than <insert joke here> to erect my penis" is now a permanent copypasterino so anyway that's why I've been gone I'm here to catch up now

[Nauci]

P.S. Based on night kills I am relinquishing my town read on Norwegian

[Nauci]

I just mean that Norwegian is one of the top players I would suspect of killing GL night 1 compared to others and between this and how behind on the thread I am, I no longer town read him for the content in the first half of day 1. My meta analysis back then was also inconclusive.

I don't know if I buy your theory on Quick btw, and also I feel like I don't even need to work that hard on a read of you because I believe town!Blair like never makes it to end game

[Nauci]

If someone could attack me with words instead of votes that would be nice.


If popo isn't hung his vigshot definitely shouldn't be truth.

Why not Truth?

Who instead?

I chose Truth because we're going to be doubting his miller claim from now until LyLo so this way we can resolve it without wasting a lynch, while simultaneously resolving Popo.

(And in the event that scum shoot Truth to frame Popo, we have forced scum to resolve Truth's claim for us - something they were evidently unwilling to do last night)

Beyond the fact that we are admitting the possibility that a scum would gambit that hard immediately after entering the game this logic checks out IMO

[Nauci]

In my opinion Norwegian can't be scum unless (like Looker suggests) he's bussing Popo.

Claiming Gunsmith and getting LUCKY that Popo was actually a Vig? Unlikely.

well I totally didn't see THAT chain of events my god

[Nauci]

There is exactly ONE anti-town faction. (The mafia)
If we had mafia + SK there would be TWO anti-town factions.

Do you understand how the game works now?

Check the link I provided. SK isn't a faction because a faction is a TEAM of the same ALIGNMENT.

From the "Normal" wiki page:

The game should have at least one Mafia or Werewolf group (of at least two members). In mini games (at most 13 players), there must be exactly one such group, with no third parties.

Mini Normals don't have third parties.

Why are you lying, Blair?

Sometimes I still want to PL you dude

[Nauci]

This isn't likely to sell anyone on Blair!Scum, but I think it's worth pointing out that I made a reference to SK in my first game with Blair and she didn't point out the SK thing then; no one did.

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p11821345

I would also like Blair to detail how I Scum slipped. Pretty much every time I have seen someone say someone Scum slipped It's been totally wrong. I don't actually think much of slips. It's mostly just hearsay.

Are you trying to say that Blair might be scum because she pulled some Galaxy Brain shit in our previous game and let you be wrong just to wait to frame you on it here chief

[Nauci]

Wasn't CSF the other major wagon yesterday? I feel like that's a reasonable vig shot?

[Nauci]

If Blair makes it to day 4 alive we're lynching there btw

[Nauci]

Wow apparently I don't need to catch up after all

what the hell

also Blair whyyyyyyyyy it's only day 2 dangit

[Nauci]

• Why wasn't Blair killed last night?
  
• I don't listen to meta arguments unless they're all-encompassing. 1 game isn't an adequate sample size.

VOTE: Nauci

Why the heck would a vig be killed instead of a gunsmith when vig frequently shoots town

Also lol was that a policy vig or serious belief in the scum slip

[Nauci]

Okay Dunn Dunn

I'm not going to bother defending because it's true I've been away from the game (dumpstering a ridiculous number of literal pedophile rapists in Smash competitive community this time) but once I hit my momentum again it will be easy to see I'm town. For now though I'll accept that I am currently low hanging fruit

I'm sad we are down Norwegian and GL but happy Blair is still around

[Nauci]

If I were scum I sure as hell would have replaced out a long time ago but I'm town and confident I can catch scum when I can turn my full attention back now

[Nauci]

I'm surprised that Truth wasn't vig'ed tbh

Blair must have been really sure about that Quick read

[Nauci]

And norwe was either more threatening or wifom.

WIFOM?

[Nauci]

(He's saying either they killed Norwe because he was more threatening or [WIFOM: They killed him because they expected us to expect them to kill me].

Nauci, are you a Mason / Neighbor?

Nope

Does this mean we burn the witch now

[Nauci]

Playerlist:

2)

Glitch

3)

Nauci

4)

Blair Candy Shop1

5)

GuiltyLion

6)

Dunnstral mavsfan41

7)

Cat Scratch Fever

8)

NDMath Rozyroz

9)

osuka

10)

LicketyQuickety

11) Looker
12)

popopopopopopo

13)

NorwegianboyEE

By my count Looker is the only one who hasn't explicitly said they're not masons w/ Truth

[Nauci]

I can't see any reason why people would have expected you to be killed last night instead of Norwegian, Blair, and I'm frankly shocked it has been brought up at all, by anyone other than Quick

Also, why Quick?

[Nauci]

I am actively working on that

[Nauci]

Playerlist:

1) Truth - Mr. Miller Mason" Himself
2) Glitch

Spoiler: Truth's thoughts on popopopopopopopopopopo

popo feels like mafia as well.

VOTE: popopopopopopo

He feels like he doesn't care. I also saw some reasons from tiger cat that I liked.

I have no clues or leads, but I have bad feelings from popopopopopopopopo because he feels like he doesn't care. I think mafia have less to care about, because they're okay with anyone that's town being lynched.

Should we quickly lynch popopopopopopopopo and go into night? I don't we'll get a better suspect than this and it may be good to go to the night without giving mafia any more information.

Cat Scratch Fever (3): popopopopopopo, Blair, Glitch ... Town!
osuka (3): GuiltyLion, Cat Scratch Fever, NorwegianboyEE .... Mafia!
NDMath (2): Nauci, mavsfan41 ... Town
GuiltyLion (2): Looker, NDMath ... Town!

popopopopopopo (1): Truth ... Mafia!

Glitch (1): LicketyQuickety ... Unsure

VOTE: osuka

Maybe a valid situation for a normal lynch could be done by forming multiple bandwagons and seeing how people will vote between them. I am personally happy with my vote on po (shortening the name now).

I think Tiger cat is town and po is mafia actually.

@Truth how has your read on Osuka evolved since you moved your vote off of him?

I still don't like him. My suspects are po, osuka, and maybe Glitch. Do you want me to vote for osuka again?

Hi, Blair! Help me vote and put pressure on po while you find someone else you want to vote.

It would make sense to me if there was 2 mafia from po going down, and 1 in the top 6.

So osuka and po and Looker for example. I think mafia usually say less and don't put themselves in the limelight but usually they need a leader. If I'm wrong, it could instead be Nauci and Glitch and mavsfan for example.

I still think we should lynch osuka.

However, I realised earlier that part of my reason for wanting to believe he's mafia may be because I'd be a little upset he was town. I think he's unnecessarily harsh most of the time.

LicketyQuickety, I am not mafia!

I was even voting for po for a long time earlier and you also think he's mafia.

VOTE: po

For yesterday, I think he could be the mafia we are looking for.

I think the right move here is for us to collectively decide who Popo should shoot tonight. This effectively gives us two lynches today -

unless he's lying, in which case the real vigilante will shoot him.

If

popo is getting vigged

, then I think we should lynch blair.

Slip?

VOTE: LicketyQuickety

Could you explain what you mean by this please? Is it because he said po instead of Truth there?

VOTE: No one

If Truth really were the mason, which I really think he isn't, and if he truly believed popo was scum

like he has literally the entire game including 100% of Day 1 and even the start of Day 2

, he would not be worried that popo would shoot him in N2 as the vig because he believes popo isn't the vig, he's scum. The

only

way for this to make sense is if Truth believes popo is actually the vig, and yet he just said he believes he's most likely scum. Truth also knows that the popo slot will resolve itself tonight. Kind of like how we've been saying that the Truth slot will resolve itself.

Well... I'm pretty sure it resolved itself. Truth is shit scum and if someone comes out to say they're masons with Truth then we know who the scum team is together. I really don't think I'm wrong on this one but if I am, then at very minimum it was a productive PL, and popo is actually the scum who the vig will take care of tonight. Truth and popo can't be scum together but they're both scummy AF. popo will die if he is scum tonight. Lynch Truth and the vig can NK popo if we're wrong, and we get 1 scum for sure. And if I'm right and Truth is scum as I strongly suspect... then maybe popo is telling the truth and will shoot someone that isn't himself and is alive the next day as proof of his claim.

Additionally, please reference:

Official Vote Count 1.HAMMER

osuka

(7): GuiltyLion, NorwegianboyEE,

Truth

, Nauci, popopopopopopo, Cat Scratch Fever, LicketyQuickety

*HAMMER*

[/area]

Osuka relentlessly fought to lynch Truth without stopping D1. Truth's response to that was interesting. I think Truth SR'd osuka for because Truth is scum and plays poorly, so when someone pushes against him, he SR's them for bullshit reasons.

Truth's reason to SR osuka was that osuka SR'd someone but didn't vote for that person.

See below.

Spoiler: Truth's thoughts on osuka

I can already see that osuka is approving the push and shading me. Do you think this could be him testing the room to see if there's support?

i'm starting to have serious doubts that you're mason

59 does not come from any town with an iq that has anywhere near 3 digits

I will ignore your insult and point out the obvious: You are shading me without advocating my lynch. You are testing the waters to see if others are open to pushing me, in which case you would join. That is what it looks like to me.

i'm starting to have serious doubts that you're mason

59 does not come from any town with an iq that has anywhere near 3 digits

I will ignore your insult and point out the obvious: You are shading me without advocating my lynch. You are testing the waters to see if others are open to pushing me, in which case you would join. That is what it looks like to me.

that's just not true at all. i'm calling your stupid plays out as what they are: stupid plays. I'm not advocating for anyone's lynch and if you legitimately believe that, youre delusional

That is exactly my point. You are calling me out and shading me while not advocating my lynch. This looks like a mafia play to me. If people agree with you and start voting me, I expect you will then be fine with my lynch, but right now, you are not pushing it because it may make you look like mafia if not enough people get behind it.

I am reading. I don't remember everything. I am suspicious of Osuka as well so I can help here.

VOTE: Osuka

Why are they both town?

As for your leads questions, I was suspecting osuka before that if you check my earlier posts.

Based on their back and forth, I think they both believe in their pushes. I can also understand why they each scumread the other even though I disagree with it.

They're both independently towny as well. Quick has demonstrated that he has an unusual process of scumhunting, and I think his process is hard to fake.

I'm gut townreading osuka.

Why is osuka scummy for thinking you could be lying about being a mason but not wanting to take the risk of pushing you? A lot of people have expressed disbelief in your mason claim yet no one is pushing for your lynch off the top of my head.

Could they not be performing an act of WIFOM? Where they intentionally push each other with reasons that seem legitimate, but it's because they know people will think they are town for doing them.

osuka appeared like he outright disbelieved me and thought I was mafia but then didn't push me or vote me. I feel the only reason for this is because he is scared for being suspected for it and wanted to see if others would vote me first.

Who do you think I should look at instead?

@Truth how has your read on Osuka evolved since you moved your vote off of him?

I still don't like him. My suspects are po, osuka, and maybe Glitch. Do you want me to vote for osuka again?

osuka likes to post a lot of times close to each other. Is doing this instead of putting thoughts into one part a mafia tactic? It makes it look like he has a bigger presence or is more involved than he actually is. It gave me that impression too until I realised that it can be manipulated

Do people look at number of posts to see if someone is likely to be town or mafia?

how the fuck is mafia supposed to know you're mason? mafia has no setup knowledge other than their own roles

you seem to gravely misunderstand some very core concepts of this game

If he is in fact a mason, it's pretty natural to assume that mafia would know he's town and therefore likely not lying about being a

mason

of all things

I still like the Osuka vote, none of his latest bursts of post felt all that town and this one was really bad shade-for-sake-of-shade

Do you think osuka could be making sure I'm actually a mason and not lying in that post? Like he's mafia and wants to kill me if I'm a mason but wants to keep questioning me just to make sure. I think this another reason to think he is mafia.

Cat Scratch Fever (3): popopopopopopo, Blair, Glitch ... Town!
osuka (3): GuiltyLion, Cat Scratch Fever, NorwegianboyEE .... Mafia!
NDMath (2): Nauci, mavsfan41 ... Town
GuiltyLion (2): Looker, NDMath ... Town!
popopopopopopo (1): Truth ... Mafia!
Glitch (1): LicketyQuickety ... Unsure

VOTE: osuka

It would make sense to me if there was 2 mafia from po going down, and 1 in the top 6.

So osuka and po and Looker for example. I think mafia usually say less and don't put themselves in the limelight but usually they need a leader. If I'm wrong, it could instead be Nauci and Glitch and mavsfan for example.

In reply to osuka: But in that one post, you were specifically asking about my role again, and you did that earlier too.

I still think we should lynch osuka. However, I realised earlier that part of my reason for wanting to believe he's mafia may be because I'd be a little upset he was town. I think he's unnecessarily harsh most of the time.

LicketyQuickety, I am not mafia! I was even voting for po for a long time earlier and you also think he's mafia.

Because I am town, Blair! Please don't shoot me if you're the vigilante. Does my buddy really need to prove this to be the case?

Dunnstral's plan where we let the vigilante shoot po if he's lying seems like a good idea.

But who else should be lynch today instead? osuka and po were my main suspects.

And yet, here we are on D2 with Truth SR'ing popopo but not voting him. The same reason Truth wanted to lynch osuka. Let me pull out a few of these from above to just point that last part out because that's the real kicker:

You are shading me without advocating my lynch. You are testing the waters to see if others are open to pushing me, in which case you would join. That is what it looks like to me.

I think you are acting like mafia.

You are calling me out and shading me while not advocating my lynch. This looks like a mafia play to me. If people agree with you and start voting me, I expect you will then be fine with my lynch, but right now, you are not pushing it because it may make you look like mafia if not enough people get behind it.

VOTE: po

For yesterday, I think he could be the mafia we are looking for.

VOTE: No one

If you're actually a mason you wouldn't even think of outing your partner unless you absolutely had to. But I think it's clear that if you have a partner it's probably scum. And if you out your partner and we lynch you thinking you're both scum and we're wrong, then at least you're PL'd and we'll confirm your mason buddy.

VOTE: Truth

Why did your super solid read on po change when he claimed vig? Do you believe him?

And if you do believe him then why would you want to no-lynch?

3) Nauci

(He's saying either they killed Norwe because he was more threatening or [WIFOM: They killed him because they expected us to expect them to kill me].

Nauci, are you a Mason / Neighbor?

Nope

Does this mean we burn the witch now

4) Blair Candy Shop1

I agree that mason partner should claim to prove truth. I'm not mason.

Odd phrasing - last minute edit?

Please confirm that you aren't a neighbor, either - for clarity.

I am neither a Mason nor a Neighbor with Truth or with anyone.

5) GuiltyLion - DEAD
6) Dunnstral mavsfan41

If you're actually a mason you wouldn't even think of outing your partner unless you absolutely had to. But I think it's clear that if you have a partner it's probably scum. And if you out your partner and we lynch you thinking you're both scum and we're wrong, then at least you're PL'd and we'll confirm your mason buddy.

VOTE: Truth

Glitch, Truth is definitely not making it near LYLO so why don't you just focus on everybody else for now?

Simple - a mason claim is self-resolving: Truth should die tonight or get lynched tomorrow. I'm not fond of people hijacking my attention as a form of distraction. There are still 11 other people that I have to go through.
In post 299, Glitch wrote:

@NDMath: what are your views on Truth?

If it's a neighborhood it must strictly be with candyshop/blair because that's the only way it hasn't been outed yet.
So he's either mason or mafia. He isn't be the hang today, so I'm not gonna give further comment until it's a day we could realistically hang him

I believe the above posts indicate that the players are not masons with Truth.

Blair is the vig, I doubt she's a mason

I'm not a mason.

Truth is lying about his claim.

7) Cat Scratch Fever - DEAD
8) NDMath Rozyroz

I feel relatively confident that scum team is Glitch + Dunn by primarily poe. Case coming when I have more time. (Didn't want to write something during night in case vig shot proved it wrong.)

Blair wasn't killed because there's no utility in shooting tonight. And norwe was either more threatening or wifom.

I agree that mason partner should claim to prove truth. I'm not mason.

9) osuka - DEAD
10) LicketyQuickety - DEAD
11) Looker
12) popopopopopopo - DEAD
13) NorwegianboyEE - DEAD

[Nauci]

Quick was drowning me in conspiracy theories and also arguing in bad faith - which I almost universally scumread so I was going to be struggling to sort him for the rest of the game, and I just can't imagine trying to sort him on top of sorting the rest of the game anywhere near endgame.

I have to admit that I still haven't read nearly 30 pages of the game (there are literally 50+ gaming community sexual abuse reports I have to address, STILL), but I fully support policy vigging Quick in a game like this at the time you did

"Totally unrelated" note, are there any mafia roles which would allow them to make multiple night kills?

[Nauci]

Either Truth will be confirmed town or confirmed scum in a couple of days. So there's no point lynching him right now. Especially since i believe the slot is most likely town.

P.S. I feel like it is a towny thing to have been repeating this on Day 1, and that the people who kept coming back to FOS Truth for his garbage claim on Day 1 are actually the ones suspicious to me now.

[Nauci]

@Quick
Main gripe i have with your read on NDMath is that it makes no sense to me. What are you townreading him for? Confidence? I don’t see any confidence from him, he’s been choosing a safe stance of scumreading GL which is easy for scum to do because it would have been following in my footsteps.
His defense against my argument was meek and showed no confidence whatsoever. He was basically just saying: "Yup, you’re right. I can’t argue with you." Why would town!him do that? He’s scum that’s been coasting and don’t have anything to say in his defense when he was caught out for it except keep up an pretense of solving and voting yesterday’s wagon on GL.

Someone tell me if this has changed in any way

[Nauci]

Nauci you are the greatest for compiling those quotes.

As for multi-kill mafia roles... I'm not aware of any Normal roles that would facilitate that?

I think that this is the case because I just skimmed the wiki page again and couldn't find anything.

I believe this clears any doubt in my mind that you are a town vig because I don't know if anyone else in the game, town or scum, who would have shot Quick and was just secretly not counter claiming you somehow

Also I did not realize the Norwegian claim was odd night

PEdit: In the parts of Day 1 that I did read, IIRC Glitch and Osuka and possibly NDMath were also repeatedly talking about Truth's claim

Literally no one was posting on day 1 in the parts I read as if they could have been a mason buddy

[Nauci]

My new guess is that the talky people are town.
VOTE: NDMath
Still one of the worst slots.

What brought you to "The talky people are probably town."?

Fyi I just finished a scum game, mini theme 2145.
By some of the meta argument it supports the conclusion I'm scum this game so I'm bringing it up before someone else does.

was this real life lmao

[Nauci]

I gotta go make dinner but it feels like we're more deciding who to vig tonight than who to lynch at this point–something I think we should actually spend some time on because vigging is an open option once we burn the witch so don't end the day early y'all

P.S. Who was popopo protecting from wagon analysis w/ his self hammer because it sure as hell wasn't me

[Nauci]

I looked through literally dozens of Dunnstral's past games for lolhammers for that one game and I remember noticing that he was very, very frequently NOT on the lynch wagon as town, but that's not a strong enough memory to help me w/ reads rn

Did he get on the popopo wagon before or after you CCed?

[Nauci]

"Quick, how's the weather where you live?"

"No, I don't want to move to Botswana."

"...Huh?"

"Try to keep up Blair, good lord."

Blair, if I had the time I'd join every one of your games

[Nauci]

I looked through literally dozens of Dunnstral's past games for lolhammers for that one game and I remember noticing that he was very, very frequently NOT on the lynch wagon as town, but that's not a strong enough memory to help me w/ reads rn

Did he get on the popopo wagon before or after you CCed?

I voted in response to the cc

dangit I guess no lazy POE for me

[Nauci]

Nauci seems Town to the naked eye, but I am not seeing anything that makes me think it isn't something Scum could post - especially considering Nauci's high use of meta as a playstyle. Not going to just assume Nauci is Town just because they have meta dove people.

I have a history of using meta and meta diving which I've successfully faked as scum that one time, and I've faked a lot of catch up walls, so I'm not even bothering with those this game and am trying to focus on real time interactions because goddamn was that hard to fake when I was scum

[Nauci]

osuka likes to post a lot of times close to each other. Is doing this instead of putting thoughts into one part a mafia tactic? It makes it look like he has a bigger presence or is more involved than he actually is. It gave me that impression too until I realised that it can be manipulated

Do people look at number of posts to see if someone is likely to be town or mafia?

i found myself typing "this has to be the most ridiculous thing in this thread" but then i quickly realized how many times i found myself typing that because of your posts

to quote myself, this is a shit post. contrast that to a shitpost, which is funny, and most definitely not a shit post (at least not necessarily).

I miss having Osuka around

[Nauci]

Looker is prob-town

How on Earth did you arrive at this during your catch up

[Nauci]

Question

Do we lynch someone else today and then just shoot him, or vice versa

I'm not sure if I know the game theory answer to this

[Nauci]

I find it suspicious how Nauci is avoiding Truth.

u fockin' wot m8

[Nauci]

It has a lot to do with how confident you are that there will be at least one scum between Truth and [other person you would choose].

If you're 100% confident that at least one would be scum, then the oder becomes immaterial.

Otherwise, we have to consider the possibility that they are both town - in which case voting one out today and shooting the other tonight would lose us the game.

I am using the premise here that Truth is 100% scum, but the other person we may want dead is not–in which case I am wondering if we want to find out the one we are unsure about first, and then shooting truth in order to maximally narrow down POE and not waste what is likely your last vig shot.

[Nauci]

I think Dunnstral is most likely mafia for the way mavsfan attacked po early but then asked about why people were voting po when other people actually started voting him, and he started calling it a policy lynch instead of looking at the actual reasons.

VOTE: Dunnstral

Why the fuck were you not making posts like this for the first 77 pages lmao

[Nauci]

Trouble is we have three slots that haven't given us much to actually sort them with. (Truth, NDMath, Looker)

NGL I kind of wish Looker was your policy vig, esp n1

[Nauci]

Giant wall of text with a tone of authority = town player

actin' like you didn't see me fake that same shit when we were just scum together

I'm hurt, dawg

[Nauci]

VOTE: Dunnstral

who's seeing what I'm seeing

[Nauci]

Hey I am still not fully caught up (I

promise

I will within the next 24 hours) so I'm not ready for it to be L-1 as I head to bed rn, even though I think that Dunnstral was doing the vote behavior and barely-surface level "scumhunting" that his scum game consistently exhibits

Also I have to admit I didn't read the recent wall posts, only the crazy Truth posts

UNVOTE: Dunnstral

[Nauci]

That's true. I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt for now.

On page 45 now, we're getting there!

[Nauci]

One of my buddies suspects this player could be attempting to push me so that we have to out another mason to validate my claim. This would be very helpful to mafia. Overall, I really do not like LicketyQuickety now.

Reading Truth's posts in light of recent events is absolutely wild

[Nauci]

no we are not lynching the claimed mason.

Just to be clear

None of us are believing either of Truth's claims, right

[Nauci]

Unless the Popo wagon was all town, there is scum between {Looker / Dunnstral}

Looker voted for Popo before I counterclaimed, based on Norwe's claim, and never moved his vote after that. He also opposed my plan to leave Popo alive and let the real vig shoot him if he's lying. I would think scum would favor this plan, as if buys them time and they may have had roles to interfere with the town vig.

Dunnstral supported leaving Popo alive but opposed the part of my plan where we tell Popo where to shoot. He ultimately joined the Popo wagon, but only after I counterclaimed. This is pretty much exactly what I would expect from scum in this scenario.

VOTE: Dunnstral

C-1

Blair you are so extremely not allowed to put anyone at -1 in a game with Dunnstral come on lol

[Nauci]

I've had the same thought about Blair but honestly she is their most likely target tonight and there's just no way town has any protecting roles left for tonight.

Hmm this feels like a weird thing to be so confident about

[Nauci]

Nauci when you asked about either of Truths claims did you mean his Miller Mason claim and his VT claim? His VT claim makes sense to me because I can't imagine Truth having played the way he has all game and be scum that pulled this crazy mason fake claim just to last to the end. I'm open to cases on it but Idk. That + his relationship with popo just rule out a lot of my willingness to consider him scum.

I was skimming some of Truth's ISO and lean on the side of he had scum buddies to interact with and didn't fake the entiiiiire dynamic of being in a thread with other people because otherwise it is just too fucking wild for me to believe

I find it far more plausible that his scum buddies were berating him repeatedly for his mad gambit and he was talking about his "mason buddies" interactions with him as a result of this

Popopopopo stepped in to just briefly comment "we're not lynching the claim" while probably ranting at him in their PT seems reasonable to me because Truth had SO many posts taking about the others' views and based on his ability to interpret game state and mechanics, idk if he could spin all of that whole-cloth.

[Nauci]

internal logic

Blair I have bad news for you...

[Nauci]

Personally, I'd prefer you only claim if you think it will change someone's reads or our understanding of the game state.

[Nauci]

I remember NEE was commenting with the same thing way back on Day 1 about NDM

[Nauci]

I don't see why that can't be right, because all of my town reads from D1 have been lynched or shot by now lol

I've only got townreads by POE at this point, because I find it so hard to believe Truth could possibly be a VT that he must be scum, and then probably NDM is my next highest suspect.

My vote on Dunnstral gave me the reaction I wanted to see, because Dunnstral has been scum a hell of a lot and reacts mostly the same way when he is pushed to the brink of lynching, so he can be a slight town lean

[Nauci]

The other thing I don't like about popoppopoopoppopo's vote:

You previously said Nauci was "forced as fuck" and were voting her. Then she quotes one, yes ONE, post of mine she doesn't like, and votes me, and your response is to put me at L-2 with no hesitation? Did your read on Nauci change? Do you think she just decided to lolbus me cause Norway wants to play like he's some RVS god, even though I later linked a game where I opened the exact same way as town? It seems pretty dissonant to me!

VOTE: popopopopopo

This was a god tier post from GL btw

[Nauci]

Massclaiming at F5 beats a vig shot and massclaiming at F4.

What does F# stand for?

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• Truth has waived all rights to be suspicious of anyone with his play. My intent is to kill one of the cats today.
  • If Truth thinks NDMath is trying to out a doc and kill them, why is he voting anyone other than NDMath and why is he voting along
    with
    NDMath?

I explained why in the same post, Looker. NDMath was suspicious when he said that but my overall top suspicious read is Dunnstral, and I don't think Dunnstral and NDMath make sense because of the votes. I wonder if you feel like you have to suspect me now, especially if I'm actually right on it being you and Dunnstral.

My paranoid suspect read is Blair. If she's a mafia vigilante, we will keep trusting her and she can just get ignored of all suspicions, especially because she helped get po lynched. I think it might be a good strategy to buy trust for Blair if they are both mafia, but I will think about this more if she is still alive tomorrow.

You're saying that you read enough of the wiki to know that the meta is for millers to claim on day 1, but didn't catch that vigilante is an explicitly town role?

[Nauci]

goddamnit why did I go back to skim the beginning of the game as well

I'm still not caught up but it's 4 21 AM and I am going to bed and finishing this tomorrow I swear to god I will come out swinging

Should we quickly lynch popopopopopopopopo and go into night? I don't we'll get a better suspect than this and it may be good to go to the night without giving mafia any more information.

This post is sending me into WIFOM hell