Newbie 2014: Aesthetic | Game Over

[votato]

to the newbies: welcome! I don't recognize any of you, so I'm assuming we have some first timers. A few tips: this is mafia, people are going to accuse you of being a liar and a cheat. It's gonna feel bad. The sooner you can get used to it the better for you. People are also going to attack you for what you say. As a member of the town, you should be sharing your thoughts anyway, and with time you will learn how to share your thoughts without getting attacked.
You should take some time to carefully read the above posts and familiarize yourself with some of the jargon and guides, especially if you have no mafia experience or no experience with forum mafia. The SEs are here to offer help, but do not take our word as law. I think even if we are scum none of us would tell lies that would confuse you or make you bad players, but there is a decent chance that at least one of us is scum and will lie to you about some things. That said, you shouldn't hesitate to ask questions of each other and if the SEs. The two other SEs are a lot more experienced than i.

To everyone, but especially the SEs: please view this post as nai. Again to the newbies: don't assume that just because I'm trying to be helpful that im a townie. Is make this post a scum too.


VOTE: brass omgus

[votato]

it would be very helpful if you could upload avatars so i can tell you apart.

[votato]

He said ask him anything, so I asked him something.

Also slight scum-lean on Mikul. We just played together, he won as scum, I helped him with it as town (well helped his partner by getting lynched in MyLo). He's come into this game cock sure and swinging for the hills. I feel like this confidence is a reaction to him drawing scum again and a feeling of invulnerability. I think Town!Mikul would be playing it a bit more restrained.

have you ever seen town!mikul play?

[votato]

thanks for uploading an avatar btw, that is very helpful in identifying who you are. i particularly like the one you chose. you get to be town

[votato]

spam is generally unhelpful to town. post whenever you feel you have something to contribute, but dont force yourself to say things.

@looter why would you lynch arthur?

[votato]

@Mikul Alright, I do agree this game is a little too quiet. Spam away I guess.
@looter Same question as votato, why would you lynch me?

Partly a reaction test, partly because your posts could be newbie-cum-scum - your posts have a feeling of anxiety in them, you seem to want to make sure you fit in and say the right thing. My question of Brassherald was semi-serious as I am still fairly inexperienced and wanted to see if your two posts were worth caring about.

Underlined the bits I think come across as anxious:

Tbh Mikul has about 60% of the posts so far, slow it down please. Can't keep up!
VOTE: Mikul

I know this is a dodgy tactic but I promise to unvote

if you slow down...

Wait, I can't do that, we're still in the RVS.

Literally just realised that's the third vote on Mikul. Better UNVOTE: Mikul

VOTE: Anthony, because there can only be one A-man...

VOTE: Town looter You've stated you want to lynch me without reason, and also voted Mikul pretty early in the game over metareading.

Also you've stated you'll be lurking the whole game.

Loads of anti-town plays that scum would do.

FoS: Town looter

Waaaaiiiit. Missed underlined in first skim.

Any reason you are paraphrasing what is fairly obviously a joke so critically?

Did you learn anything from the reaction test? This is good reasoning otherwise. In particular the nervous unvote usually comes from scum and scum have a hard time picking up on jokes. VOTE: arthur

Fos brass for that defense

[votato]

Can we all chill out a bit? Bickering about how much people should post is not gonna get us anywhere

[votato]

@mikul:
Calm down, spamming is subjective. He might see it as spam while you don't. And I disagree with you calling that lazy, excessively flooding makes it hard even for active players to keep up. And flooding *is* a legit strat used by scum, so no need to get offended by mutesea.

@town looter:
All your "good reasoning" is me voting and unvoting Mikul. As for scum not picking up on jokes thats bullshit, I'll bet you're making that up. Cmon, give me at least two examples of that.
FOS'ing brass for noting a well known fact is unreasonable.
To clarify on the lurking, I thought it would be anti-town if you did that. I made a mistake missing the joke and I admit to it.
So really all you have to go on me is:
1) Me not picking up on a joke
2) Me unvoting because I realised I'd put Mikul on L-2. If he only had one vote on him, I would not have unvoted.

its not simply that you unvoted. its the way you went about it. although scum often unvote RVS wagons that approach a lynch out of fear of being on such a bad wagon.
not picking up on humor is actually a very useful tell. Because scum are lying, their brains have a hard time picking up on humor. it could be that you just are incapable of sarcasm/humor, but for your sake i prefer to think that youre scum

[votato]

Just re read the dp in iso. Posting my notes thus far

The bickering was getting nowhere and I didn't feel like I had a lot to contribute. I like that you decided to just give your reads and try to move on. UNVOTE: Mikul. I voted for Mikul as well for the same reason that mutesa noted, I just don't like spam. I agree with Mikul's defense though which is why I'm unvoting. Mikul seems to want to continue with the game just fine and I don't think being fluffy at the start is a reason to vote right now.

I'm hesitant to L-2 Arthur for only one reason (and if someone wants to show me why this is meaningless, then I have no problem voting), does him trying to make sure the vote against him is counted seem anti scum? I guess a scum could see this as an easy opportunity to show that they are townie; "Look guys, I wanted to make sure the vote against me is counted!" (especially because he did it in forum vs. a pm to the mod).

Missing Town Looters joke reads pretty scummy to me. Even in his defense he says

I probably missed the joke? Even if it was a joke, its still anti-town to lurk.

He isn't capable of fully accepting that it was (obviously now as Town Looter is posting) a joke an tacks on that lurking is scum? Nobody said they would be lurking now though. If you are really against lurking then get on the people who haven't posted yet.

I also noticed Arthur parroting people as Mikul did, that is pretty odd. It looks to me like Arthur wants to show he agrees with the "group." Maybe a play to create a town-bloc including himself in it.

FoS

Arthur, no vote yet.

you should vote someone if you think they're scum. so long as you state that its L-2 or L-1 its probably ok. if someone else lolhammers then that person will face the consequences, not you. the exception is if you plan on hammering you should state intent first so the person can claim and give a final defense/state a few last things

[votato]

why is it that everyone who comes from epicmafia is super cocky?

[votato]

good catchup porkens, although it was very long and im lazy. i did actually read the whole thing though. i think the only thing @me that needs addressing is the "stop infighting and play nice". feel free to not give me towncred for that. pretty LAMIST etc, but it was more of an SE thing and trying to keep the gamestate healthy. id probably do it as scum too.

[votato]

im not scumreading you for being defensive. its for not being able to tell when people are joking and for hopping of the L-2 wagon. who do you think is scum on your wagon?

[votato]

i mean stating a case for why someone else is scum is a good way to get pressure off yourself. plus you should be doing it either way as town.

[votato]

UNVOTE:

[votato]

Sorry I didn't vote when I posted my last message, this is my first forum game and I honestly wasn't sure if voting before discussion about our thoughts was normal (I saw someone else use FoS without voting before so I wasn't sure). I was ready then and I'm ready now to L-1 Arthur for the reasons I posted before. Isn't it normal for people to claim when they get down to L-2/L-1? He just threw a tantrum.

VOTE: ArthurConyl L-1

don't care for this all that much. Still better than brass' vote

[votato]

arthur has no reason to claim, since arthur is at L-2. scumpoints to you for claimfishing. and you scumread me for lurking? im pretty middle of the pack... and my posts include a lot of AI content. but i do tend to pick up steam as the game does. boring games bore me. early game is boring.

[votato]

NEVER SELF HAMMER

[votato]

yeah what mikul said.

[votato]

[votato]

I'll be here when more activity starts. Focusing on the other games for now. With the lack of activity in this , I've all but gave up on it. I'll contribute as there is useful information, I just don't want to talk to myself. Will post as stuff is relevant.

That self hammer boned us

Why are we boned because of one mislynch? We have two more fam. Don't give up.

well we only have one more. i think we should all do ourselves a favor and re-read all of day 1. its really short, shouldnt take long

[votato]

Okay votato

You non posty, lurky , scummy mother sucker. I saw you posting actively in another game earlier.

I challenge you to a rap battle , 3 rounds. Loser gets lynched

still confused why you want me lynched so bad here at the beginning of the game.

[votato]

Just re read the dp in iso. Posting my notes thus far

The bickering was getting nowhere and I didn't feel like I had a lot to contribute. I like that you decided to just give your reads and try to move on. UNVOTE: Mikul. I voted for Mikul as well for the same reason that mutesa noted, I just don't like spam. I agree with Mikul's defense though which is why I'm unvoting. Mikul seems to want to continue with the game just fine and I don't think being fluffy at the start is a reason to vote right now.

I'm hesitant to L-2 Arthur for only one reason (and if someone wants to show me why this is meaningless, then I have no problem voting), does him trying to make sure the vote against him is counted seem anti scum? I guess a scum could see this as an easy opportunity to show that they are townie; "Look guys, I wanted to make sure the vote against me is counted!" (especially because he did it in forum vs. a pm to the mod).

Missing Town Looters joke reads pretty scummy to me. Even in his defense he says

I probably missed the joke? Even if it was a joke, its still anti-town to lurk.

He isn't capable of fully accepting that it was (obviously now as Town Looter is posting) a joke an tacks on that lurking is scum? Nobody said they would be lurking now though. If you are really against lurking then get on the people who haven't posted yet.

I also noticed Arthur parroting people as Mikul did, that is pretty odd. It looks to me like Arthur wants to show he agrees with the "group." Maybe a play to create a town-bloc including himself in it.

FoS

Arthur, no vote yet.

yeah this most likely comes from scum

[votato]

yeah both anthony and brass really didnt do any scumhunting yesterday. brass was active lurking and LAMISTing pretty hard.

VOTE: anthony

[votato]

2 scum are within Anthony, vex, townlooter and brassherald.

and id remove townlooter from that PoE i think. i think.

[votato]

from posts yeah

[votato]

Just re read the dp in iso. Posting my notes thus far

The bickering was getting nowhere and I didn't feel like I had a lot to contribute. I like that you decided to just give your reads and try to move on. UNVOTE: Mikul. I voted for Mikul as well for the same reason that mutesa noted, I just don't like spam. I agree with Mikul's defense though which is why I'm unvoting. Mikul seems to want to continue with the game just fine and I don't think being fluffy at the start is a reason to vote right now.

I'm hesitant to L-2 Arthur for only one reason (and if someone wants to show me why this is meaningless, then I have no problem voting), does him trying to make sure the vote against him is counted seem anti scum? I guess a scum could see this as an easy opportunity to show that they are townie; "Look guys, I wanted to make sure the vote against me is counted!" (especially because he did it in forum vs. a pm to the mod).

Missing Town Looters joke reads pretty scummy to me. Even in his defense he says

I probably missed the joke? Even if it was a joke, its still anti-town to lurk.

He isn't capable of fully accepting that it was (obviously now as Town Looter is posting) a joke an tacks on that lurking is scum? Nobody said they would be lurking now though. If you are really against lurking then get on the people who haven't posted yet.

I also noticed Arthur parroting people as Mikul did, that is pretty odd. It looks to me like Arthur wants to show he agrees with the "group." Maybe a play to create a town-bloc including himself in it.

FoS

Arthur, no vote yet.

everything stated in this post is sheeped. the reason for voting was sheeped, and now the reason for unvoting is too. the post just reads as forced.

[votato]

its against site rules to publicly discuss replacing out and to encourage others to replace out

[votato]

Why are you having out of game pms about mafia?

[votato]

No one is told whether they are roleblocked. Even a pr would say that their action failed but it wouldnt say whether they were roleblocked or the target were jkd

[votato]

i still think looter is likely town. Im fine voting either brass or Anthony. I feel that claiming was a bit silly, you were both already town. Oh well. Dunno why everyone is ignoring vexossa. Definite room for a lurky scum there

[votato]

also we should read porkens iso

[votato]

I think brass is a good option here

[votato]

nah you lynch scummy people not lurky people. it just so happens that being lurky is scummy. also, i dont think ive been lurky. its just that its friggin page 12 and my best mafia is played at page 75+

[votato]

im ok with that

[votato]

town looter could you link your past games? ideallly both town and scum games.

[votato]

heh i played on that site many years ago. you dont have any recent meta from this site though?

[votato]

lol way to out the tracker's crumb in your first post. and somehow the tracker survived until night 2

[votato]

oh wait nvm that was the tracker that outed his own crumb. lol Not_Mafia...

[votato]

ok i gues ill defer to mikul and lunatic since they were both in that game with you and know you better. but i still think brass is the best lynch today.

[votato]

it seems that arthur anthony and mikul were porken's scumreads. i was the strongest townread, but that means i might have some incentive to kill porkens and leave that townread locked in and on the record.

[votato]

well i dont think porkens was killed on suspicion of being PR. it could simply be that scum were gunning for SEs, but thats not a great strat, and i feel like that you gun for the more active SE, so i would be dead. unless my reads are absolutely terrible. which is possible. but the simpler explanation is that porkens posed a danger because of his reads.

[votato]

yeah but 8 posts is insufficient to warrant a kill generally. im sure there were other people who posed a bigger threat, unless porkens' reads really were that good.

[votato]

Im ready to lynch brass

[votato]

Youve yet to make any effort this game. Why shoulf we keep you have for potential lylo tomorrow if you arent gonna be here to solve or try? I realize you think your time is more valuable than the rest of ours, but if youre gonna sign up to play mafia you should be ready to play mafia

[votato]

am i right to think scum cannot multitask in newbie games?

[votato]

looks like im wrong. wow thats a first.

[votato]

Brass' response did ping me as slightly townie, which is why i tried to encourage him to come join the thread and post. His continued refusal made it null so still and overall scum read.

Ok, can we lynch quick now? I feel like my unvote was good, especially in hindsight. This is not how quick normally feels

[votato]

yes, i was fairly convinced i was on town at that point. plus i was concerned that the day would end prematurely. turns out, i was right on both counts!

[votato]

For now

UNVOTE:

You were already not voting?

whats the relevance here quick? why bring that up?

[votato]

yes, i was fairly convinced i was on town at that point. plus i was concerned that the day would end prematurely. turns out, i was right on both counts!

[votato]

"i was on town" meaning my vote was on town.

[votato]

yeah normally people unvote their scumreads when they really think theyre scum.

[votato]

you asked why i unvoted, i told you.

[votato]

you asked why i unvoted, i told you.

But it comes AFTER the fact.

I think you unvoted him because you KNEW he was Town and didn't want to be on the wagon after he flipped.

in that case wouldnt i make up a reason and state it publicly to avoid exactly this scenario?

[votato]

so what you're saying is that everything is wifom and we really cant evaluate anything? yeah, you're scum for sure.

[votato]

@mod

hypothetically if scum is inactive during the np, could their partner make them carry out an action if they aren't there?

yes

[votato]

quick is like 90% scum. i can buy looter maybe? but id prefer the quick lynch today.

[votato]

ive played with quick at least half a dozen times at this point. never have i seen town!quick act like this.

[votato]

oh good point. VOTE: quick

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=82949
here is a quick towngame. can you spot the difference?

[votato]

quick the main thing thats consistent about you is that you're active, aggressive, and inconsistent. you flip flop all over the place. you werent on the defensive that game until you flip flopped a bunch. you also always talk about "your system" and how good you are at mafia. you havent mentioned your system for scumhunting. you have only pressed one read. youve been decently active, but the way youre active feels different too.

[votato]

I think it's pretty clear at least one of TL/votato is Scum. I think TL has made some posts that are hard(er) to fake as Scum, so that leaves me thinking votato is Scum. So Scum are in those three between TL/votato/nash. I really think the way votato dropped off means he's Scum since he doesn't actually have legit reasons for why I am Scum and can't defend that position.

excuse you? yes, me dropping off while on VLA is totally AI. i did defend why you're scum. i picked one game to link, but pretty much every game ive been with you was the same, except when you lurked in all your games and got replaced. but whenever youre active your playstyle is the same.

[votato]

and quick why is anthony town to you?

[votato]

My senses are tingling so hard with this TL / Votato scum team


Votato is actively engaging in another game all day and has not defended himself vs quick. In that scenario TL would carry out the nk so the jk on votato likely did nothing

yeah i was active elsewhere today while there were no posts in this game, but i wasnt active else where while you all were posting. plus lurking isnt really in my scum meta, with one exception that involved a uniquely inactive game (more inactive than this game by far). i dont think id lurk again, even in that instance. it was my first scumgame. lurking just isnt AI for me.

[votato]

I've also been kind of baiting this as I feel like town votato would call out the faulty logic in the jk confirms you "ish" claim

i have called out the faulty logic, and i keep telling you it doesnt mechanically confirm me. at the same time, the more you trust me the better. its really nice for town when you falsely mechanically confirm a townie.

[votato]

Anthony has just basically not been here. How many posts do they have? I feel like VT might replace out.

PR hunting. this is a scum mindset

[votato]

I feel like Anthony was either over cautious Scum or just Newb Town. Not much else in their ISO, but they did make a good point about Arthur being Town:

I'm hesitant to L-2 Arthur for only one reason (and if someone wants to show me why this is meaningless, then I have no problem voting), does him trying to make sure the vote against him is counted seem anti scum?

the best analysis quick can do, even after a flip is "town would be unlikely to say this non-gamesolving thing" quick is not town here.

[votato]

An extension would probably be good especially since people are gonna be vla for the weekend

[votato]

ill post when i’m home.

if there’s anything ppl want me to talk about immediately i’d appreciate the questions so i can get a footing here.

we need a claim from you

[votato]

And had that not taken over an hour id be very happy to believe that it was a good reaction test

[votato]

I think it's pretty clear at least one of TL/votato is Scum. I think TL has made some posts that are hard(er) to fake as Scum, so that leaves me thinking votato is Scum. So Scum are in those three between TL/votato/nash. I really think the way votato dropped off means he's Scum since he doesn't actually have legit reasons for why I am Scum and can't defend that position.

excuse you? yes, me dropping off while on VLA is totally AI. i did defend why you're scum. i picked one game to link, but pretty much every game ive been with you was the same, except when you lurked in all your games and got replaced. but whenever youre active your playstyle is the same.

How do I know you were V/LA?

well i might have posted in the thread about it. i definitely set my site status to VLA and PMd the mod. is this really the push you're gonna me tho? lol. activity is never AI for me.

[votato]

and quick why is anthony town to you?

I don't have anthony as LockTown.

that isnt what i said, nor is it what you said. you listed anthony as a townread. i asked why. dont deflect.

[votato]

I feel like Anthony was either over cautious Scum or just Newb Town. Not much else in their ISO, but they did make a good point about Arthur being Town:

I'm hesitant to L-2 Arthur for only one reason (and if someone wants to show me why this is meaningless, then I have no problem voting), does him trying to make sure the vote against him is counted seem anti scum?

the best analysis quick can do, even after a flip is "town would be unlikely to say this non-gamesolving thing" quick is not town here.

Why is it a non-gamsolving thing?

being hesitant to put someone L-2 as a newbie isnt AI. talking about a vote counting isnt really very AI either. its an empty statement. there were statements with real content you could have talked about.

[votato]

Haha. Nice. Pretty sure Scum PT reads something like this right now: "Get on loot, with Mikul's read on him so strong, it'll be an easy mislynch."

I am happy to walk into the noose because I think, now, we have enough information to win once I flip.

Reads ofc:

• Ydrasse
  getting on me screams of opportunistic eliminating. This bumps the slot right up the scum-o-meter. Although you guys won't see that until my flip.
  
• Nash
  . I think this slot is scum. It's been lurky, it's made scummy posts. Just feels straight up scummy. Can you please fucking focus on Vexo/Nash slot tomorrow?
  
• Like many of you, I have had a niggling feeling that
  LQ
  is town, even though I have been scum reading them for most of the game. I realise this sounds inconsistent AF, but gun to the head, I would probably now say town.
  
• votato is tough, POE suggests town, but they haven't been helpful at all. Their scum record is impeccable, so they play a very good scum game. I think if votato is scum we lose, unless you guys can prove some how Ydrasse or Nash are town.

Conclusion: Ydrasse and Nash are most likely scum team. Although votato could be fucking us. Pretty sure LQ is town.

I am happy to answer any questions, otherwise hammer away.

pretty sure this post only comes from town.

[votato]

I think it's pretty clear at least one of TL/votato is Scum. I think TL has made some posts that are hard(er) to fake as Scum, so that leaves me thinking votato is Scum. So Scum are in those three between TL/votato/nash. I really think the way votato dropped off means he's Scum since he doesn't actually have legit reasons for why I am Scum and can't defend that position.

here is a three-person PoE that does not include anthony.

[votato]

and you think im more aggressive in this game than youve seen before or less?

[votato]

ok. VOTE: ydrasse

[votato]

ydrasse, it sucks for you, but you repped into a scummy slot and PoE was going this direction no matter what.

[votato]

i think i was the main person deflecting from looter, so saying that it was scum resisting that wagon isnt gonna get you very far, at least with me.