Open 784 - Hard-Boiled (Town Wins!)

[Battle Mage]

VOTE: no lynch

[Battle Mage]

I am surprised nobody is shading me for voting no lynch...

[Battle Mage]

From what I've seen of you Battle Mage, it's completely within your meta to play suicidally in RVS, and I don't really know what I gain from voting you for that.

Gah! I've been outted! It's not suicidal though, I have legit reasons...but nobody cares.

[Battle Mage]

I am surprised nobody is shading me for voting no lynch...

i think we know better than to pay attention to anything you do

It took you this long to shade me for no reason? You must be scum here! VOTE: votato

[Battle Mage]

VOTE: Battle Mage

Love it when you go in on me naked

[Battle Mage]

VOTE: Battle Mage

Love it when you go in on me naked

Why ?

allows me to townbloc you

[Battle Mage]

I've heard self- voting in rvs is almost always done by scum. Can anyone confirm that?

I feel like simply voting yourself would be something that would be done more by scum than by town, as scum would have more reasons to self-vote I think.

Not sure what those reasons would be? other than a guilty conscience?

[Battle Mage]

VOTE: Battle Mage

Love it when you go in on me naked

Why ?

allows me to townbloc you

"Townbloc" in which sense ?

Townbloc as in, I think you are town.

[Battle Mage]

Examined the ISO of pissirrational - just as I suspected - scum!

VOTE: Pissirrational

[Battle Mage]

Battle Mage you're not serious with townreading someone for voting you, right?

very serious about the townread, although you've misunderstood the reason

[Battle Mage]

an opportunity arises - we have 3 days to lynch Votato before he returns from V/LA. assuming piss shows up beforehand.

[Battle Mage]

an opportunity arises - we have 3 days to lynch Votato before he returns from V/LA. assuming piss shows up beforehand.

I see no good reason to do this.

I see you haven't played with votato before

[Battle Mage]

it was definitely "bad"

[Battle Mage]

having read it, i dont know why you're subtly shading me, or what you're subtly shading me about.

explain your problem with my vote for piss
then
explain why the fact i've played with votato before is AI here

otherwise, you'll be NEXT.

[Battle Mage]

having read it, i dont know why you're subtly shading me, or what you're subtly shading me about.

explain your problem with my vote for piss
then
explain why the fact i've played with votato before is AI here

otherwise, you'll be NEXT.

My problem with your vote on pi is that you would have basically seen his entire ISO minus his RVS vote in your catch-up between 179 and 223. Without addressing any of pi's recent posts, it felt like you were hopping on the wagon to help it build momentum. Pi is null for me, so that conviction of pi's alignment paired with a seeming lack of critical thought about pi is what made me suspect.

My problem with you playing with votato before is more in relation to you wanting to flashlynch votato. He tends to be lynchbait, from what I've seen. Trying to push him while V/LA when you know how he plays seems suspect.

Doesn't seem like you've thought the votato stuff through! I could buy that you might think that scum-BM would see votato as an easy mislynch, and want to pursue that.
But do you really think that my strategy for doing that would be to openly suggest

wagonning him while he is V/LA

, without giving any reasons, or even voting him myself? It's completely implausible that BM-scum actually thinks he can achieve a mislynch with that approach. Additionally, if you're suggesting I think votato's lynchbait, why would I need to wait until he's V/LA? Surely the opposite is true. Moreover, I don't even agree with your characterisation of him, so that's your opinion, not mine.

[Battle Mage]

having read it, i dont know why you're subtly shading me, or what you're subtly shading me about.

explain your problem with my vote for piss
then
explain why the fact i've played with votato before is AI here

otherwise, you'll be NEXT.

My problem with your vote on pi is that you would have basically seen his

entire

ISO minus his RVS vote in your catch-up between 179 and 223. Without addressing any of pi's recent posts, it felt like you were hopping on the wagon to help it build momentum. Pi is null for me, so that conviction of pi's alignment paired with a seeming lack of critical thought about pi is what made me suspect.

My problem with you playing with votato before is more in relation to you wanting to flashlynch votato. He tends to be lynchbait, from what I've seen. Trying to push him while V/LA when you know how he plays seems suspect.

On pi, I may not fully understand your point here. He has only posted like 4 times? It's not a difficult ISO to read. I'm not sure why hopping on a wagon to help it build momentum is necessarily scummy. I'm not clear why you preferred to assume I don't have any critical thought about Pi to substantiate my vote, and rather than ask me why I voted for him, simply start shading me over it.

Are you afraid of engaging in direct dialogue with me?

If Pi is null for you, you obviously haven't graduated from the BM-school of scumhunting.

[Battle Mage]

I am surprised nobody is shading me for voting no lynch...

You mean besides this?

VOTE: Battle Mage

I just remembered this was you. Not even sure what the point of this post was? complete fluff

[Battle Mage]

Marashu's ISO is horrible. Lots of examples of going out of his way to be helpful, without scumhunting. I remember when I was a newbie, I had a similar approach as scum - it bolsters the post count and makes it seem like you're contributing actively when you aren't having to really commit to anything. And a real lack of self-awareness in his remarks to Midari in post 328, accusing Midari of "looking for reasons to suspect me" when his whole post strikes a similar tone.

@Mod - Battle Mage is no longer voting No Lynch

Mod Note

Thanks

@votato you should put your vote somewhere.

Also I just noticed that Worcestershire hasn't posted yet.

Good job Worcestershire. You gottem.

Says the person who opened with the exact same post...

"Townbloc" in which sense ?

I see you signed up right before this game - do you have any prior mafia experience?

either way, I still dnt buy completely deimos attitude. I feel the particular questions he has made r too generic in nature, too general, and easily replicable as scum to feign an investigation of sorts (im talkin about things like 48, 168 and 173 as the most generic, others can be replicable). Im also not convinced of the actual intent behind the even distribution of votes; do u have any game when u have openly upheld such an opinion?
VOTE: Deimos
ninjaed by the above

Regarding the distribution of votes, it was discussed briefly in Newbie 2002.

Wait, why are you responding, Marashu?

I was in that game and remembered it coming up.

What do you mean in "our" experience?

We're talking about the Treestump game we played where a townie self voted on like page 2.

By "we" and "our" are you referring to yourself and votato?

VOTE: Marshu

Let's see if the gambler's fallacy holds this time.

Half the game is 90% mental.

[Battle Mage]

VOTE: Marashu

definitely scum

[Battle Mage]

Or at least, his push on Marashu here makes me feel a lot better about that read. Because I've been getting tonal gutpings from Marashu since the start and we clearly have resonance about that.

we are like brothers, you and I.

[Battle Mage]

actually
VOTE: superbowl
i didnt comment in deep at the time (i did feint on 276) but his vote on 238 is terrible; it seems he is trying to justify his hop, and ends up way too artifitial, as in trying to justify an attitude he is taking on an otherwise "weird way". I am doubting ur honesty here, sir.

looks to me like he's basically random voting here. Not saying that means he's town, but I think calling it "terrible" is a stretch, and you're overthinking it here. I'm sure your heart is in the right place though.

It would be easier if you just joined the Marashu train before it leaves the station.

[Battle Mage]

Tux, vote Marashu and save my ass again!

[Battle Mage]

I liked that Tux accepted a real time interaction with me and I liked how he was approaching Midari. I also changed my mind about the way he was flinging his vote around and decided that scum is actually typically quite loathe to do that due to self-awareness about voting patterns.

good job mate, I like this.

[Battle Mage]

I think word has a point on superbowl. That justification was so weak that the wagon hop comes off as extremely artificial.

I don't see it dude. The justification was weak, and scarcely more than a random vote to wagon - which in itself, I don't find objectionable. If he was pitching it as a super serious vote, I'd be more interested. I'm not convinced everyone else had amazing reasons for voting pi either, as they'd probably only visited the BM school of scumhunting on one of our Open Days, rather than attending an accredited course.

[Battle Mage]

I think word has a point on superbowl. That justification was so weak that the wagon hop comes off as extremely artificial.

On second thought superbowl literally says "wagon hop" in that post so I think he's aware that he's just shifting for the pressure wagon and the reasoning isn't meant to be deep, which weakens the tell.

ah you beat me to the punch, but yes this.

[Battle Mage]

Tux, vote Marashu and save my ass again!

Save your ass from what? I think you guys are handling it well. Also, I think I'm going to hold onto my vote a little longer, give some of the none entities time to post. But if I was to do it right now, I'd toss it on Midira.

I was referring to our previous game together, and hoping we could re-kindle our victorious partnership (where you essentially won us the game).

[Battle Mage]

pi havent posted for 3 days, i dnt think we r hearing from him on the near time.

i can wrap my hear around ur change of perception on tuxedo for his development since 237. but I still think superbowls vote wasnt exactly rvs. I did the exact same thing on This post of Large Normal 227; and a simple glance at his topics on the site indicate a lack of mafia pts, wich means few or none experience with scum (at least on this site).

this is town vibes for me.

Scum

piisirattional
Marashu

Town

Deimos27
word321

Third Party

Doctor Drew

To be confirmed

Tuxedo Mask
votato
ceejayvinoya
brassherald
superbowl9
Midari Ikishima
Worcestershire

[Battle Mage]

Tux, vote Marashu and save my ass again!

Save your ass from what? I think you guys are handling it well. Also, I think I'm going to hold onto my vote a little longer, give some of the none entities time to post. But if I was to do it right now, I'd toss it on Midira.

I was referring to our previous game together, and hoping we could re-kindle our victorious partnership (where you essentially won us the game).

Yeah, I got that, but are you trying to find out if I'm a PR again?

....erm, no? what would give you that idea?

I'm simply keen to enlist your vote to help put pressure on Marashu, and also to see if you can join my townbloc of awesomeness.

[Battle Mage]

Tux, vote Marashu and save my ass again!

Save your ass from what? I think you guys are handling it well. Also, I think I'm going to hold onto my vote a little longer, give some of the none entities time to post. But if I was to do it right now, I'd toss it on Midira.

I was referring to our previous game together, and hoping we could re-kindle our victorious partnership (where you essentially won us the game).

Yeah, I got that, but are you trying to find out if I'm a PR again?

....erm, no? what would give you that idea?

I'm simply keen to enlist your vote to help put pressure on Marashu, and also to see if you can join my town block of awesomeness.

That's what I hope, but this being when and how you try to interact with me feels off. Like when you say specifically for me to "save you again" and saying "I won the game" when both of those things only happened because I was the Jailkeeper feels very weird to me. Maybe I'm overthinking it, but you're just giving me the hibbie jibbies right now.

VOTE: Battle Mage

You're probably just paranoid about me (again)

Those things did only happen because you were jailkeeper, but hey I'm not ungrateful! My town win rate needs all the help it can get!

If you think me referring to our only other shared game as a symbol of our bond, where you happened to be a PR, is me fishing for your role here...I dunno what to tell ya!

[Battle Mage]

ok, tuxedo may be town; i rly dnt see that being pulled out by scum

his vote on me? I'm pretty neutral on it. Instinctively it feels townie, but I saw scum pull literally the same move on me in a recent completed game of mine.

[Battle Mage]

being paranoid thiniking of pr baiting due to a reference to other game, and being consistent with the push on it executed by scum?
i find it hard to pull that as scum; it dsnt only consist of actually considering the pr component (wich is harder by scum, since they know they rnt actually mean intended) but to base ur vote on a rly weak "excuse" and being consistent with it; on the town case the actual paranoia is what fuels it, similar tp how scums paranoia make them oversesitive to reactions. thats why i think its more townindicative than anything else.

sure, maybe it is possible to pull as scum; but it definetly is harder, and depends on multiple layers (identifiying possible pr hunt->fake paranoia->voting on that alone), so it naturally leans town.

not the PR bit specifically, which isn't really relevant (as the idea Tux genuinely thinks I'm scum fishing for a PR here stretches credulity beyond anything I'm willing to accept), but the principle of scum being buddied by somebody town and pushing back vociferously on it, and using it as a crutch to scumhunt. Originally I felt surely scum would be quite happy being buddied, and at least not try to 1v1 the guy doing it which seems counter-productive. But on reflection, it's quite an easy way to get into the game on the front foot by attacking them (and also being buddied might make them nervous of extra attention anyway). To your point, it would really only require Tux-scum to fake some paranoia and use that to base his vote on - I'm certain he's capable of that as scum. Ultimately it's NAI for me.

I'd also add that there was nothing about my post which suggested fishing for a PR - as noted, it was simply a nod to the previous game we had shared. For what it's worth, if I was scum here I wouldn't bother fishing for PRs anyway. I played the last iteration of this setup and town managed to voluntarily spunk off all it's power roles on Day 1.

[Battle Mage]

Third Party

Doctor Drew

Good read

I mean, I can't argue that.

On the surface I like BM for town, but he seems a little more focused and less wack a doo than a previous game we had, where he was town(and I was 3p haha). I will have to skim his iso from that game, I probably just don't have enough experience with him.

People seem to be coming around as Tux as town, but I dunno. I do get a vibe that is pocketing me and I can't shake it.

You're right with the meta here, although that's not a good example of how I normally play as town. You're better off looking at Jigsaw Mafia (large theme) where I was engaged and focussed, and single-handedly cost us the game as de facto town leader, or Newbie 2009 where I was also engaged and focussed, and although my reads weren't perfect, I did help us win that game by being more of a pest than a leader. It's basically NAI, and more a function of how invested I am in the game.

On Tux, I'm decidedly neutral. Nothing about his ISO really pinged me, so nothing to interest me there currently. Nothing wrong with a pocketing on Day 1, my dude!

[Battle Mage]

Hehe it's content time boys and girls

Big townread on Deimos for stuff like 234

I'm thinking a lil fos on word is developing? Cases on ppl seemed a bit reachy for me (222 + 225) ((edit: add 351 lol))(((also jesus christ the block paragraphs with typos are hard to read)))

100000% agree with BM's 335 - do you have any slots open in that scumhunting school?
Cause of this VOTE: Marashu

Can someone who townreads votato give me a reason why (Drew, Marashu, Tuxedo)?

Also this game is a lot funnier than I first thought it was we have assembled a cast of interesting characters

Yes, due to coronavirus, we do have spaces open for this year's intake. You'll need to sit an entrance exam, but from what I've seen so far, you should be fine with this.

[Battle Mage]

an opportunity arises - we have 3 days to lynch Votato before he returns from V/LA. assuming piss shows up beforehand.

I see no good reason to do this.

I see you haven't played with votato before

I've played with him before. It's just that I have a null town read on him and would rather someone else get lynched.

Why are you still taking this seriously?

Huh. You mean I'm not supposed to? That's interesting.

The laughing emoji wasn't a clue? or the fact I was suggesting we lynch someone while they are V/LA and can't defend themselves? Come on man...

[Battle Mage]

Definitely bad feels about how the Marashu wagon got to -1, and then fell away.

I'm not sure about this progression, Mr Ikishima:

What's up?

I'd appreciate it if someone can give me an unbiased tl;dr

People be lurking.

People be V/LA

People town read Demios and Votato I think.
Marashu is scum.

VOTE: Marashu

It's self explanatory

L-1

I didn't see the hidden vote from Worchest

Honestly how long are you going to waffle and not put any thoughts down.

VOTE: Worch
It's getting to a point where you are just coasting thru it feels.

[Battle Mage]

Well it implies that i make for an easy (mis)lynch. Ive only been lynched on two occasions where i cared about the game, and two further where i didnt care much and thought town would do just as well without me. Ive only ever been lynched as scum one time, and in that instance my scumbuddies faked a guilty on me. Essentially, if im invested in a game im probably not the lynch. And if im not investe

whoops. If im not invested im probably town

This was really just a roundabout way of saying "please don't lynch me, regardless of how I play"?

[Battle Mage]

don't understand this 'defence'. You voted Marashu, putting him at L-1 (although later claimed you didn't realise this), and then after getting some heat, you jump immediately onto somebody else who had also been voting Marashu, without an especially good explanation.

Definitely bad feels about how the Marashu wagon got to -1, and then fell away.

I'm not sure about this progression, Mr Ikishima:

What's up?

I'd appreciate it if someone can give me an unbiased tl;dr

People be lurking.

People be V/LA

People town read Demios and Votato I think.
Marashu is scum.

VOTE: Marashu

It's self explanatory

L-1

I didn't see the hidden vote from Worchest

Honestly how long are you going to waffle and not put any thoughts down.

VOTE: Worch
It's getting to a point where you are just coasting thru it feels.

#1. Its Miss.
#2. Looking at Mara's ISO that I believe you posted is just bad and even in my tl;dr the faux scumhunting and being called for parroting someones reads in a previous game. Its a bit obvious.
#3. I'm blind I only have one eye. (Seriously I'm half blind I feel a lot of times.)
#4. This I wanted 4 points so here we are.

[Battle Mage]

Originally I felt surely scum would be quite happy being buddied, and at least not try to 1v1 the guy doing it which seems counter-productive. But on reflection, it's quite an easy way to get into the game on the front foot by attacking them (and also being buddied might make them nervous of extra attention anyway).

Battle Mage, were your 345 and 357 reaction tests to see how I'd respond to buddying?

no i'm just so alone

[Battle Mage]

L-1

I didn't see the hidden vote from Worchest

Honestly how long are you going to waffle and not put any thoughts down.

VOTE: Worch
It's getting to a point where you are just coasting thru it feels.

How did you not see my vote ?

Phone Posting And I scrolled by it while my phone was in my hand. I'm sure you've never done that before?
Oh nevermind this is your second game or something.

Also when are you going to add something of substance? Or are we just going to coast thru? Like I said parroting people is not going to get us anywhere.

VOTE: midari

Best vote of the game. This game has way too many lurkers.

I don't remember seeing this type of episode before on any of the platforms I played and, particularly, unless you have a Nokia 6091, I find it difficult that an accidental post skip has occurred specifically in the L-1 scenario that Marashu was in. I would suspect, however, of your intentions if the set of votes had not stagnated.

Regarding my participation in the game, I have nothing relevant to share and I do not intend to invent anything to create the false impression of activity.

You have no thoughts about who might be scum? None about who might be town?

It looks like he's implying Midari and Marashu are scum. If so, I can roll with that.

[Battle Mage]

Originally I felt surely scum would be quite happy being buddied, and at least not try to 1v1 the guy doing it which seems counter-productive. But on reflection, it's quite an easy way to get into the game on the front foot by attacking them (and also being buddied might make them nervous of extra attention anyway).

Battle Mage, were your 345 and 357 reaction tests to see how I'd respond to buddying?

no i'm just so alone

jokes aside, no they weren't mainly a test (although I'm always keen-eyed for reactions), they were mainly just me legit buddying to try and form a little town-bloc to work with, so we can cruise to victory.

[Battle Mage]

If anyone who has meta with him would like to contest that notion and assert that he is within his scum range still, I am all ears.

Oi, I'm good enough as scum to convincingly fake being town! As I have plenty of meta on myself, I would offer you that my range as scum can be wide, although this is more characteristic of my play as active town (especially recently when I have more to prove as town).

I would also note, for the record, that your read on me is correct, as I am town here.

[Battle Mage]

I didn't understand the line about cognitive load.

Cognitive load

Illustrative usage:

If we can lynch Marashu or Midari in the next couple of pages, Battle Mage might blow his cognitive load.

[Battle Mage]

my current lynchpool would be: Marashu, Nash, Midari, Ceejay - probably in that order.

[Battle Mage]

I'm pretty convinced Battle Mage is town at this point.

Why?

It's most likely he graduated from the BM school of scumhunting - and is well qualified to judge both town and scum. No explanation needed methinks...

Or alternatively, he's scum and he knows I'm town.

[Battle Mage]

an idea:

if we can make it through Day 1 without outting the hider, would it be sensible for everyone to claim a name they would target if they were the hider? this way if the hider dies without their target dying, we will likely have 1 confirmed scum? probably most helpful if we try and get a reasonable diverse spread of names too.

[Battle Mage]

yes, we'd have to ensure some diversity

[Battle Mage]

Scumpool:
piisirattional
Marashu
Midari Ikishima
ceejayvinoya

Townpool:
Deimos27
word321
superbowl9
Worcestershire

To be confirmed:
Tuxedo Mask
votato
Doctor Drew
brassherald

[Battle Mage]

I don't immediately see any problems with hypoclaiming hider targets. They will become slowly outed by PoE due to not dying after visiting scum or the NK target, but I don't know how long we'd need the hider's identity to remain secret anyway.

that's definitely true - it's basically a conservative strategy which reduces top-end opportunity (hider actually going on a miracle run and winning town the game) but reduces bottom-end risk by making sure hider doesnt die night 1 or 2 and give us no info.

[Battle Mage]

and it completely nerfs the investigative power of the hider.

why? he dies upon contact. how can that be nerfed? its literally unavoidable as scum

because random targeting limits the potential. we only have like 2-3 investigations. we should investigate the scummiest people.

Does this really come from the votato in 469? You do realise that having conftown is +EV?

im not suggesting we dont do anything to out the hider results postmortem. im just saying that the specific thing that word suggested was bad. the original plan was better imo.

I think Word's plan is fine. If it's done in an effectively random order it's not manipulatable by scum (i.e. scum all choose to target each other, making them immune to the hider), which extends the shelf-life to maybe 2 nights rather than 1.

So we will use the player list in the OP to do it, but you will target the player ABOVE you, rather than below. (as everyone agrees I'm conftown, makes sense that I decide the order right?)

UNVOTE: VOTE: Midari criticising the plan which is clearly in interest of town, on top of everything else.

[Battle Mage]

that's right, thanks Mod

[Battle Mage]

criticising the plan which is clearly in interest of town, on top of everything else.

Reeeee you don't like the plan you are anti town. I give a situation where you create a false positive but you don't want to hear it? The density of the people in this game is bar none crazy. Instead of entertaining the idea of ANY OTHER PLAN we just have to use a semi random order and not use logic with THIS GTFO.
This is illogical for numerous reasons. And don't tell me "the mafia will target each other"

Answer me your after rubbing your two brain cells together.

How many PRs are in the game?

So directing one on a suicide mission is the way to go? Get out.

There's no need to be rude. You're simply wrong here, and with the greatest respect, I have more recent experience of this setup than you do, and am well placed to advise on strategy. I can be wrong of course, or indeed I could be scum trying to manipulate the town (although it's quite apparent above that you know that's not a possibility) but to call me an I'm an idiot when I highlight your error is not a good look.

The false positive argument you made is predicated on the idea of a vigilante. Town should never have a vigilante in this setup, because the player should always choose tracker. As such, there should be no false positive issue. I had thought that was so obvious it didn't warrant mentioning, so apologies I wasn't clear enough at the outset.

Can you please point me to other games where you've had a similar unprompted meltdown as town when you've gone against the consensus and come under slight pressure?

[Battle Mage]

This quickly is turning into let's get a midari wagon they must be scum since they don't like the plan.

On the contrary, you were well worth a tickle before going out on that limb, and I just needed that little something extra to win me over. I reckon scum could be worried about this plan and try to fight it with ill-considered rationale, as you have done. Resorting immediately to ad hominem is not going to persuade anyone.

[Battle Mage]

Ah this is Midari's first game as scum!

[Battle Mage]

Yo, you guys posted alot this weekend and I don't feel like reading that much today between my hearings.

What is the plan that Midari doesn't like?

We're going to give the hider some cover, and make sure we know who they targetted in case they die, by everyone agreeing a target for tonight in the thread

only if they were the hider.

I got to choose the format as I'm the tippy top townie of the day. Everyone will target the person directly above them in the player list on the first page.

[Battle Mage]

I guess Hider!pii replacement targets the bottom person so that we have an ouroboros of players?

exactly.

now, how do you feel about riding on Midari for a bit? Just to see how she reacts?

[Battle Mage]

Is it just because she doesn't want to follow the plan?

no, for me it was mostly some dodgy voting patterns before that. Others have other reasons I'm sure.

[Battle Mage]

Ah this is Midari's first game as scum!

It's not. Keep trying.

I looked at your topic list, read all of your completed games, and you were town in all of them.

If I missed one, you are welcome to prove me wrong by linking to it.

[Battle Mage]

criticising the plan which is clearly in interest of town, on top of everything else.

Reeeee you don't like the plan you are anti town. I give a situation where you create a false positive but you don't want to hear it? The density of the people in this game is bar none crazy. Instead of entertaining the idea of ANY OTHER PLAN we just have to use a semi random order and not use logic with THIS GTFO.
This is illogical for numerous reasons. And don't tell me "the mafia will target each other"

Answer me your after rubbing your two brain cells together.

How many PRs are in the game?

So directing one on a suicide mission is the way to go? Get out.

There's no need to be rude. You're simply wrong here, and with the greatest respect, I have more recent experience of this setup than you do, and am well placed to advise on strategy. I can be wrong of course, or indeed I could be scum trying to manipulate the town (although it's quite apparent above that you know that's not a possibility) but to call me an I'm an idiot when I highlight your error is not a good look.

The false positive argument you made is predicated on the idea of a vigilante.

Town should never have a vigilante in this setup, because the player should always choose tracker.

As such, there should be no false positive issue. I had thought that was so obvious it didn't warrant mentioning, so apologies I wasn't clear enough at the outset.

Can you please point me to other games where you've had a similar unprompted meltdown as town when you've gone against the consensus and come under slight pressure?

Rude cause you can't think about something going against the grain for other reasons. K.

I'm not outting myself and other accts to prove a theory.

You're an alt of somebody? I wonder if I could find out by looking at the banlist?

The bottom line is, unless there is a legit newbie in this setup, there isn't going to be a vig, so it doesn't matter. And even if you think someone might be dumb enough to pick Vig over Tracker, the odds of that, multiplied by the odds of the hider hitting them vs scum, make your "false positive" an exceptionally remote possibility - much more remote than the likelihood that they hit scum on Night 1, and die without us getting anything from it because we don't know who they visited. It's just basic maths dude.

Your objection about the Vig makes even less sense because, it doesn't really affect the validity of the gameplan for the hider. The hider dies if they visit a vig, regardless of whether they claimed their target or not.

[Battle Mage]

As I understand it, there are three possibilities:

1- Choose a mafia and die.
2- Choose a vigilante and die.
3- Choose a victim and die together if visited by mafia/vigilante.

The only problem is that in two of these three scenarios the vigilante distorts the expected result, which can lead to a misinterpretation of the facts, especially in possibility 2. If that could be adjusted, it would be a good plan.

We won't have a vigilante. This is one good reason why.

Also, the

most

likely possibility, and the one you've missed here, is that the hider hides behind town and lives, but doesn't claim. Then once they die, we potentially have a conftown late in the game, which would be hugely useful.

[Battle Mage]

Unless a lot of people choose the same person to hide behind, that's the only downside I can see

We could establish a variation of choice to avoid this.

I have suggested (Well, actually it wasn't my idea, but I endorsed and tweaked it) a solution to this - we all pick the person above us in the playerlist. that way, only 1 person picks each person.

[Battle Mage]

Optimal play would have been for the Vig/Tracker to choose tracker. Vig, while, admittedly, more fun is negative town utility.

If I got that role, I chose Tracker.

This is because you are an intelligent, good player.

I believe the majority of people in this game are intelligent and good players too, and so the likelihood of us actually having a Vig is pretty slim.

[Battle Mage]

As I understand it, there are three possibilities:

1- Choose a mafia and die.
2- Choose a vigilante and die.
3- Choose a victim and die together if visited by mafia/vigilante.

The only problem is that in two of these three scenarios the vigilante distorts the expected result, which can lead to a misinterpretation of the facts, especially in possibility 2. If that could be adjusted, it would be a good plan.

It can be adjusted by there not being a Vig. The person who got Vig can choose to be a tracker instead, and since this is the public plan then it's safe to assume they will/should.

What's with the uptick in activity? You connecting with the game now? What are your reads?

Anything to add Brass?

ah sorry Tux, you got there before me!

[Battle Mage]

As I understand it, there are three possibilities:

1- Choose a mafia and die.
2- Choose a vigilante and die.
3- Choose a victim and die together if visited by mafia/vigilante.

The only problem is that in two of these three scenarios the vigilante distorts the expected result, which can lead to a misinterpretation of the facts, especially in possibility 2. If that could be adjusted, it would be a good plan.

It can be adjusted by there not being a Vig. The person who got Vig can choose to be a tracker instead, and since this is the public plan then it's safe to assume they will/should.

What's with the uptick in activity? You connecting with the game now? What are your reads?

Anything to add Brass?

So there are two roles in one ?

I have a little more time available today. I still have Marashu as a suspect and now my impression of Battle Mage has improved more significantly (as town). Good impressions about Superbowl and Word too.

Excellent, I think that's a pretty good little townbloc, and we can even add Deimos, whom I adore.

Battle Mage - Superbowl - Word - Worcestershire - Deimos

If we all stick together, we should be able to clean this place up, lickety split!

[Battle Mage]

So there are two roles in one ?

I have a little more time available today. I still have Marashu as a suspect and now my impression of Battle Mage has improved more significantly (as town). Good impressions about Superbowl and Word too.

Roles are page 1. Town has a hider, a half tracker half vig (chosen), and a half cop half psychologist (random).

Are there specific reasons for these reads? Any posts you can share?

-0.5 townie points for trying to appear helpful here, when someone else had already referenced the OP above.

-0.5 townie points for asking inane questions about a townie's town-read on other townies, without a clear purpose.

You're slipping away from me Tux...

[Battle Mage]

We're going to do a quick ELI5!

@ BM lay out the exact plan for the hider and what we learn from it? Would it be likely we carry this plan out day 2?

@Midari what are the flaws with the plan? What do you propose as an alternative?

I'll save ya some time because Midari is scum, and probably ain't gonna bother answering anyway.

The plan is basically, everyone has an assigned target for IF they are the hider, which is publically available. We have agreed that I will decide, as the de facto town adjudicator, and I have chosen a random method which is really easy:

If you are the hider, target the player above you in the playerlist.

This way, if the hider dies because they hit scum Night 1, we know who they targetted and get a free scumbag. A potential downside would be if we had a Vig, however the more sensible players have explained why we should not have a Vig. And even if we did have a vig, mathematically the odds are way +EV for town even with that risk. It could also mean, depending on what we do for subsequent nights, that we might get some conftowns later in the game without a claim being made, which is super useful.

Your question about whether we do it on Day 2 as well, is a very pertinent one. I think it's debatable, and we should defer the decision until tomorrow, so we give scum less info to work with tonight (because, for instance, if we committed to do this for 2 nights, rather than 1, they might try a gambit to hunt the hider. If we committed to only doing 1, they mightn't bother. Uncertain scum is good for town.)

[Battle Mage]

So there are two roles in one ?

I have a little more time available today. I still have Marashu as a suspect and now my impression of Battle Mage has improved more significantly (as town). Good impressions about Superbowl and Word too.

Roles are page 1. Town has a hider, a half tracker half vig (chosen), and a half cop half psychologist (random).

Are there specific reasons for these reads? Any posts you can share?

-0.5 townie points for trying to appear helpful here, when someone else had already referenced the OP above.

-0.5 townie points for asking inane questions about a townie's town-read on other townies, without a clear purpose.

You're slipping away from me Tux...

No, you're right. It's definitely not super weird that he basically lurks the entire day, but then suddenly just gets really into talking about NAI theory stuff. You just buy that they suddenly dumbtell in the middle of it too? Do you lose town points for then giving answers to Worsh that I had already given too? Also really, Brass does nothing and also just shows up to talk NAI mechanics stuff, while ignoring a question I asked them, and they're fine?

So I should just drop it and not ask him to explain his reads, cool.

I don't think you will ask everyone that question, so to pick on someone likely town, who you could perceive as an easy target, seemed like it could be a bit predatory to me.
And this is a very tetchy response - why so sour? Are you upset your vote for me earlier didn't go anywhere? Or that you're not in my townbloc?

2 details in your post above which struck me as scummy:

1. "it's definitely not super weird that he basically lurks the entire day" - I think this is a massive exaggeration on 2 levels. What you're describing doesn't sound "super weird" at all, it happens to like a bunch of people in every game unfortunately. True or false, you're overplaying this. And more importantly perhaps, "he basically lurks the entire day" - we have only just started the day right? it certainly isn't over yet! You are definitely stretching the truth here to try and shade Worcestershire, which is exactly why I called you out in the first place. I suspected you didn't mean to ask the question in good faith, and just wanted a hook to get you back on an easy bandwagon.

2. I never said anything about Brass being "fine" so I don't know why you're taking that defensive line about him above. I said he was a good player, I didn't say he was town. You aren't really reading my posts, you're skimming and jumping to conclusions, and then getting very defensive when you meet any resistance. Not a good look.

I think it's good that this game is not going to be an environment where you can get away with cheap garbage like "Hey Player A - what's your take?" without fear of challenge.

Good question on my own townie points though - no I don't lose them, as I apologised afterwards once I realised my mistake.

[Battle Mage]

Spoiler:

So there are two roles in one ?

I have a little more time available today. I still have Marashu as a suspect and now my impression of Battle Mage has improved more significantly (as town). Good impressions about Superbowl and Word too.

Roles are page 1. Town has a hider, a half tracker half vig (chosen), and a half cop half psychologist (random).

Are there specific reasons for these reads? Any posts you can share?

-0.5 townie points for trying to appear helpful here, when someone else had already referenced the OP above.

-0.5 townie points for asking inane questions about a townie's town-read on other townies, without a clear purpose.

You're slipping away from me Tux...

No, you're right. It's definitely not super weird that he basically lurks the entire day, but then suddenly just gets really into talking about NAI theory stuff. You just buy that they suddenly dumbtell in the middle of it too? Do you lose town points for then giving answers to Worsh that I had already given too? Also really, Brass does nothing and also just shows up to talk NAI mechanics stuff, while ignoring a question I asked them, and they're fine?

So I should just drop it and not ask him to explain his reads, cool.

I don't think you will ask everyone that question, so to pick on someone likely town, who you could perceive as an easy target, seemed like it could be a bit predatory to me.
And this is a very tetchy response - why so sour? Are you upset your vote for me earlier didn't go anywhere? Or that you're not in my townbloc?

2 details in your post above which struck me as scummy:

1. "it's definitely not super weird that he basically lurks the entire day" - I think this is a massive exaggeration on 2 levels. What you're describing doesn't sound "super weird" at all, it happens to like a bunch of people in every game unfortunately. True or false, you're overplaying this. And more importantly perhaps, "he basically lurks the entire day" - we have only just started the day right? it certainly isn't over yet! You are definitely stretching the truth here to try and shade Worcestershire, which is exactly why I called you out in the first place. I suspected you didn't mean to ask the question in good faith, and just wanted a hook to get you back on an easy bandwagon.

2. I never said anything about Brass being "fine" so I don't know why you're taking that defensive line about him above. I said he was a good player, I didn't say he was town. You aren't really reading my posts, you're skimming and jumping to conclusions, and then getting very defensive when you meet any resistance. Not a good look.

I think it's good that this game is not going to be an environment where you can get away with cheap garbage like "Hey Player A - what's your take?" without fear of challenge.

Good question on my own townie points though - no I don't lose them, as I apologised afterwards once I realised my mistake.

1.I'm asking him because he hasn't explained a single read this game. Even if you think I was trying to trap him, I see no reason why you should step in this soon to stop it. Instead, you've basically given him carte blanche to no substantiating reads. I don't see how it benefits the game in the slightest. Also you can see that you're wrong as I also asked questions of Brass. Obviously, they were more general, but that's because Brass' latest posts have been dead empty.

2. I'll wait till you call out Brass then. Since you just chose to go after me that comes off like a mild endorsement of Brass, I.E. you see no problem with how they've been playing with their last few posts.

1. He's in my townbloc, and you aren't. So you are more likely to be scum, and the burden of proof is on you to explain your actions first. You should worry less about what "benefits the game" and more about what is meant to be your job - hunting scum and proving you ain't scum. You haven't dealt with my points above - why did you feel the need to exaggerate the reasons for questionning Worcestershire here? Honesty is your friend if you're town, and your post was not honest - you were under a modicum of scrutiny and going way OTT to sell us on it.

2. If I endorse someone, you'll know about it. If you read my posts anyway.

[Battle Mage]

*shakes head*

[Battle Mage]

hmm, some of this townbloc is townie. but i dunno what worce did to get into the townbloc... you could make the case that the lurkiness is NAI, but theres no townie content in any of the posts. no gamesolving, nothing.

He is blunt, direct, doesn't give a crap. He is welcoming the heat. I like it. Call it a gut read, but the dude is town for me today.

I don't usually give an opinion on something I'm not a part of anyway but I agree with votato.

Agreeing with votato? no bueno

[Battle Mage]

Spoiler:

Regarding my participation in the game, I have nothing relevant to share and I do not intend to invent anything to create the false impression of activity.

So you have no thoughts on the game.
Awesome. Great job. Happy with this thus far.

The fact that we can't look past a little slip of not seeing something and me moving because "heat" I find a bit disturbing as I'm not sure how many games you have been apart of where "oh that was a hammer" has happened in games you have been in. I've been around long enough to have it happen more times then I want to admit. Call it what you want. It's mildly infuriating.


I don't understand what superbowl9 is getting at roughly with the town block and what have you and what not l. Maybe I'm a bit delusional but I would expect everyone's reads to change at some point in this game otherwise this is going to get ugly quickly.

Heavy townping from this, don't think noobish scum with heavy cognitive load would see big backlash from a clear mistake and say "Why cant we move past this little slip??" Scum would try to justify more

I like this

I couldn't disagree more. I find it infinitely more likely that newbie-scum would prefer to play something down and plead for people to look the other way, rather than properly defending their actions. It's an approach designed to avoid scrutiny. Further, the fact Midari terms it a "slip" pings me, as well as the general language use. "Disturbing"? "infuriating"? It's all unnecessarily emotive language.

[Battle Mage]

I'm doubtful about this Midari wagon. I think the voting from Marashu to Worcester is perfectly well explained by the fact that Marashu got to L-1. Further, I just get this sense of foreboding from Midari's lynchbaitiness that she is scum's designated D1 mislynch. I am open to reading a case of her, but for now I think the Marashu wagon is perfectly functional. He continues to lack engagement with the game and his high-frequency absences do nothing to alleviate that.

I'm pretty happy with either wagon. I don't think Midari is inherently lynchbaity - she's a viable lynch here because she looks particularly scummy in this game. You can't spend your whole life worrying that someone is very scummy but might be a designated mislynch or something. I'm somewhat flexible on today's lynch, but nothing you've said above makes me want to move my vote currently.

[Battle Mage]

As I understand it, there are three possibilities:

1- Choose a mafia and die.
2- Choose a vigilante and die.
3- Choose a victim and die together if visited by mafia/vigilante.

The only problem is that in two of these three scenarios the vigilante distorts the expected result, which can lead to a misinterpretation of the facts, especially in possibility 2. If that could be adjusted, it would be a good plan.

It can be adjusted by there not being a Vig. The person who got Vig can choose to be a tracker instead, and since this is the public plan then it's safe to assume they will/should.

What's with the uptick in activity? You connecting with the game now? What are your reads?

Anything to add Brass?

So there are two roles in one ?

I have a little more time available today. I still have Marashu as a suspect and now my impression of Battle Mage has improved more significantly (as town). Good impressions about Superbowl and Word too.

Excellent, I think that's a pretty good little townbloc, and we can even add Deimos, whom I adore.

Battle Mage - Superbowl - Word - Worcestershire - Deimos

If we all stick together, we should be able to clean this place up, lickety split!

I don't feel comfortable with Deimos on that list. He passes on an analytical confidence that does not seem natural to me.

It's a functional townbloc for Day 1. We can re-evaluate tomorrow if needed - I want a cohesive team around me at all times please!

[Battle Mage]

Spoiler:

Regarding my participation in the game, I have nothing relevant to share and I do not intend to invent anything to create the false impression of activity.

So you have no thoughts on the game.
Awesome. Great job. Happy with this thus far.

The fact that we can't look past a little slip of not seeing something and me moving because "heat" I find a bit disturbing as I'm not sure how many games you have been apart of where "oh that was a hammer" has happened in games you have been in. I've been around long enough to have it happen more times then I want to admit. Call it what you want. It's mildly infuriating.


I don't understand what superbowl9 is getting at roughly with the town block and what have you and what not l. Maybe I'm a bit delusional but I would expect everyone's reads to change at some point in this game otherwise this is going to get ugly quickly.

Heavy townping from this, don't think noobish scum with heavy cognitive load would see big backlash from a clear mistake and say "Why cant we move past this little slip??" Scum would try to justify more

I like this

I couldn't disagree more. I find it infinitely more likely that newbie-scum would prefer to play something down and plead for people to look the other way, rather than properly defending their actions. It's an approach designed to avoid scrutiny. Further, the fact Midari terms it a "slip" pings me, as well as the general language use. "Disturbing"? "infuriating"? It's all unnecessarily emotive language.

I see your point, but I don't think scum want to get emotional when someone pushes them. I do think noob scum would try to divert attention, but I think they would at least try to explain it - I'm almost making a too scum to be scum argument here ig.

Yeah but, I mean, she did try to explain it. And it wasn't emotional as in, bursting into tears or getting really mad - just using melodramatic language. Pings me because scum are acting to try and seem townie, and sensationalist verbiage is symptomatic of actors.

I think I'll stay on Midari, and hop back to Marashu if we can't get anywhere here. The view is good over here.

[Battle Mage]

Yes I'm 99% sure Midari-PP is scum.

[Battle Mage]

Spoiler: Wagon's a history

VC 1.1

Midari Ikishima (1) - Doctor Drew

VC 1.2

Midari Ikishima (3)

- Doctor Drew, Tuxedo Mask, Midari Ikishima

VC 1.3

Midari Ikishima (5)

- Tuxedo Mask, Midari Ikishima, Marashu, word321, Doctor Drew

VC 1.3

Midari Ikishima (4)

- Tuxedo Mask, Marashu, word321, Doctor Drew

VC 1.4

Midari Ikishima (1)

- word321

VC 1.5

piisirrational (5)

- Midari Ikishima, Deimos27, Battle Mage, superbowl9, ceejayvinoya

Here the Midari wagon vanishes and is replaced by this Pi wagon.

VC 1.6

piisirrational (5)

- Midari Ikishima, Deimos27, Battle Mage, superbowl9, ceejayvinoya

VC 1.7

piisirrational (5)

- Midari Ikishima, Deimos27, Battle Mage, superbowl9, ceejayvinoya

Midari Ikishima (1)

- Doctor Drew

VC 1.7

Marashu (4)

- piisirrational, Battle Mage, Deimos27, superbowl9

piisirrational (2)

- Midari Ikishima, ceejayvinoya

Midari Ikishima (1)

- Doctor Drew

3rd big wagon of the game, Marashu. Doctor Drew continues to be the only trying to revive the Midari wagon.

VC 1.8

Marashu (4)

- Battle Mage, Deimos27, superbowl9, Worcestershire

Midari Ikishima (1)

- Doctor Drew

Pi wagon dies.

VC 1.8

Marashu (4)

- Battle Mage, Deimos27, superbowl9, Worcestershire

Midari Ikishima (2)

- Doctor Drew, votato

Votato joins the wagon.

VC 1.8

Marashu (4)

- Battle Mage, Deimos27, superbowl9, Worcestershire

Midari Ikishima (3)

- Doctor Drew, votato, word321

Word's back.

VC 1.9

Marashu (3)

- Deimos27, superbowl9, Worcestershire

Midari Ikishima (4)

- Doctor Drew, votato, word321, Battle Mage

Here comes BM.

Mod Note

Tux, How did you break the bbcode that bad that it broke the site layout?

VC 1.10

Marashu (3)

- Deimos27, superbowl9, Worcestershire

Midari Ikishima (5)

- Doctor Drew, votato, word321, Battle Mage, brassherald

I don't know how I broke it so bad, I'm sorry!
Brass joins the party.

VC 1.11

Marashu (3)

- Deimos27, superbowl9, Worcestershire

[Midari Ikishima] (5)

- Doctor Drew, votato, word321, Battle Mage, Looker

Brass tranforms into a new person.

VC 1.12

Marashu (3)

- Deimos27, superbowl9, Worcestershire

PenguinPower (4)

- Doctor Drew, votato, word321, Battle Mage

Oh god, now Midari transforms. Now we're all caught up.

Okay, what did I learn here? Drew and Word are bigs fans of the Midari wagon both returning to it. More interesting is the Pi and Marashu wagon has lots of cross over, but no one from the Midari wagon joins either, excluding Midari themselves and Battlemage who comes on at the end. Someone smart tell me what this means.

my guess based on that would be that midari is scum and the two other wagons are counterwagons. it implicates BM? not my area of expertise and also i dunno how much we can learn pre-flip.

I think I was on all of those wagons right? So, just to be clear, you think I'm implicated as scum with Midari because I was on all 3 of the best wagons, and eventually chose to jump off the larger town-wagon to bus my partner? Obviously I'm biased, but I think that would be an unusual move for me as scum

[Battle Mage]

What do I need to know because I'm not reading 25 pages worth of stuff?

I'm digging you already. And you've dropped from 99% scum to 80% scum. So you should probably join me with a:

VOTE: Marashu

I'm back baby!

[Battle Mage]

L-2 baby

Looker, you know I'm town here man

[Battle Mage]

i disagree with both your points above. Townblocking is super helpful. even though my reads suck so bad, my townblock is often riddled with scum

as for outting the Vig, there aint gonna be a Vig - trust me!

[Battle Mage]

announcement!!!

Aristophanes replaces votato!!

Big shoes that I will not be filling btw

Fucking more anime people.....ok.

*deep breath*

Welcome presumably not pervy person!

haha! my favourite is when dudes have an anime girl as their avatar and complain when people assume they are not dudes.

[Battle Mage]

Ah shit, I didn't close my bold tag.

So much for being the "old, wise" player here!

are you old or wise?

in your opening post you implied you would be less good than votato...

[Battle Mage]

i'm fine with marashu claiming, only on the proviso that if he claims vanilla we actually lynch him. I'm fking sick of these setups where we just run up a bunch of people and out all the PRs.

[Battle Mage]

i'm fine with marashu claiming, only on the proviso that if he claims vanilla we actually lynch him. I'm fking sick of these setups where we just run up a bunch of people and out all the PRs.

You have a point about outing all the PRs. Still, it's sub optimal scum play to claim VT there.
VOTE: NO ELIMINATION is the best alternative because we can't risk losing mechanical info like you said.

not sure if it's sub-optimal? depends on what they think will save their bacon for the longest. I've claimed VT as scum before, thinking it would be more credible. Claiming a PR would basically mean they can't survive to endgame. It's probably unlikely it results in a counterclaim in this gamestate, and therefore there's not much additional verification from a PR claim anyway.

[Battle Mage]

In fairness, I can see why people might think, mistakenly, that a PR fakeclaim would "out" the real PR. I don't think this is the case, certainly not with experienced players in the slots.

[Battle Mage]

I'm baffled at the amount of people it seems are noting Tux looks town. I don't see anything which gives me that view particularly. Separately, I'm opposed to a PP lynch today, but would recommend it is revisited tomorrow.

[Battle Mage]

lastly to note I'm

V/LA for 48 hours

.

[Battle Mage]

The Prod Mod Returns

Gypyx replaces ceejayvinoya.
Say hello to our new recruit

this is good news - if there's one thing I know, it's how to

lynch

eliminate

read Gypyx

[Battle Mage]

tux's behaviour today has not looked great. if Marashu-scum, Tux probably town. If Marashu-town, look hard at Tux

[Battle Mage]

UNVOTE:

I want to post some final thoughts after work before the day ends.

[Battle Mage]

My final thoughts:
1) so the people who replaced in are aware, hider will be hiding behind the player above them on the player list.
2) picking tracker will prevent the above from causing a false positive
3) Investigate Nash more deeply D2. I do think that he would behave this way and was feeling trapped/caught.

If you're town, this was helpful, so thank you.

[Battle Mage]

On reflection, I won't post any final day thoughts. I'll continue my investigations tomorrow (if I make it that far).

VOTE: Marashu

So long, buddy!

[Battle Mage]

if he flips town, Tux or PP tomorrow.

[Battle Mage]

Add Aristophanes to that list please. He replaced in 3 days ago and the extent of his engagement has been a soft resistance to the Marashu wagon. He mentioned that he prefers Nash, in passing, but never made an effort to make that happen.

I'll look at him tomorrow.

[Battle Mage]

Sorry for being lurky. I did my best, and leave the rest to you.

this feels like a scumclaim?

[Battle Mage]

don't forget, hider targets person above, which means Deimos, you're on me!

[Battle Mage]

Sorry for being lurky. I did my best, and leave the rest to you.

this feels like a scumclaim?

I assume based on the fact that he didn't elaborate on the questions I asked him and that he didn't respond to whether he's town that this is a scumclaim.

assume it then also implies his partners are not lurky/did not bus hard (if taken at face value)

[Battle Mage]

ONLY READ IF MARASHU FLIPS SCUM:

Spoiler:

BM School of Scumhunting - 2020-21 Prospectus

having read it, i dont know why you're subtly shading me, or what you're subtly shading me about.

explain your problem with my vote for piss
then
explain why the fact i've played with votato before is AI here

otherwise, you'll be NEXT.

My problem with your vote on pi is that you would have basically seen his entire ISO minus his RVS vote in your catch-up between 179 and 223. Without addressing any of pi's recent posts, it felt like you were hopping on the wagon to help it build momentum. Pi is null for me, so that conviction of pi's alignment paired with a seeming lack of critical thought about pi is what made me suspect.

My problem with you playing with votato before is more in relation to you wanting to flashlynch votato. He tends to be lynchbait, from what I've seen. Trying to push him while V/LA when you know how he plays seems suspect.

Doesn't seem like you've thought the votato stuff through! I could buy that you might think that scum-BM would see votato as an easy mislynch, and want to pursue that.
But do you really think that my strategy for doing that would be to openly suggest

wagonning him while he is V/LA

, without giving any reasons, or even voting him myself? It's completely implausible that BM-scum actually thinks he can achieve a mislynch with that approach. Additionally, if you're suggesting I think votato's lynchbait, why would I need to wait until he's V/LA? Surely the opposite is true. Moreover, I don't even agree with your characterisation of him, so that's your opinion, not mine.

having read it, i dont know why you're subtly shading me, or what you're subtly shading me about.

explain your problem with my vote for piss
then
explain why the fact i've played with votato before is AI here

otherwise, you'll be NEXT.

My problem with your vote on pi is that you would have basically seen his

entire

ISO minus his RVS vote in your catch-up between 179 and 223. Without addressing any of pi's recent posts, it felt like you were hopping on the wagon to help it build momentum. Pi is null for me, so that conviction of pi's alignment paired with a seeming lack of critical thought about pi is what made me suspect.

My problem with you playing with votato before is more in relation to you wanting to flashlynch votato. He tends to be lynchbait, from what I've seen. Trying to push him while V/LA when you know how he plays seems suspect.

On pi, I may not fully understand your point here. He has only posted like 4 times? It's not a difficult ISO to read. I'm not sure why hopping on a wagon to help it build momentum is necessarily scummy. I'm not clear why you preferred to assume I don't have any critical thought about Pi to substantiate my vote, and rather than ask me why I voted for him, simply start shading me over it.

Are you afraid of engaging in direct dialogue with me?

If Pi is null for you, you obviously haven't graduated from the BM-school of scumhunting.

Marashu's ISO is horrible. Lots of examples of going out of his way to be helpful, without scumhunting. I remember when I was a newbie, I had a similar approach as scum - it bolsters the post count and makes it seem like you're contributing actively when you aren't having to really commit to anything. And a real lack of self-awareness in his remarks to Midari in post 328, accusing Midari of "looking for reasons to suspect me" when his whole post strikes a similar tone.

@Mod - Battle Mage is no longer voting No Lynch

Mod Note

Thanks

@votato you should put your vote somewhere.

Also I just noticed that Worcestershire hasn't posted yet.

Good job Worcestershire. You gottem.

Says the person who opened with the exact same post...

"Townbloc" in which sense ?

I see you signed up right before this game - do you have any prior mafia experience?

either way, I still dnt buy completely deimos attitude. I feel the particular questions he has made r too generic in nature, too general, and easily replicable as scum to feign an investigation of sorts (im talkin about things like 48, 168 and 173 as the most generic, others can be replicable). Im also not convinced of the actual intent behind the even distribution of votes; do u have any game when u have openly upheld such an opinion?
VOTE: Deimos
ninjaed by the above

Regarding the distribution of votes, it was discussed briefly in Newbie 2002.

Wait, why are you responding, Marashu?

I was in that game and remembered it coming up.

What do you mean in "our" experience?

We're talking about the Treestump game we played where a townie self voted on like page 2.

By "we" and "our" are you referring to yourself and votato?

VOTE: Marshu

Let's see if the gambler's fallacy holds this time.

Half the game is 90% mental.

[Battle Mage]

Marashu scumflip means Lynch Nash tomorrow btw.

[Battle Mage]

VOTE: Dr Drew scum

other acceptable votes: Nash, PP

[Battle Mage]

Spoiler:

Done catching up, i have mara as light scumlean but i'd much rather have a penguin Execute there

Def holding off on a hammer until Gypyx gets a chance here.

I will get you that readslist D2.
I would consider a Nash elim reasonable though right now. That would be my preferred I think.

Why wait D2 to provide content? You're never sure if you're making it to D2, as if you

knew

you were making it into D2

I don't want my readslist to effect the nightkill.

Nightkill's over - what do you think?

Also - what do you think of Nash skipping over PenguinPower to vote me?

---

VOTE: Nash Welcome to Froppy, and I think Nash's failed bus and skipping over PenguinPower to attempt a counterwagon on me tells us that Marashu/PenguinPower/Nash are the scumteam.

that's a very reasonable assessment, only undone by the fact Dr Drew is scum. Presumably with either Nash or PP.

[Battle Mage]

The townblock just put in work - now’s your chance to join us word! I think i like Nash over anyone else rn (as elim option). I wanna go back and read some of those replacement slots.

Another thing to be discussed today is hider strats - should we do the same thing except 2 slots up this time?

Very good point! My gut feeling is we go again, given we flipped scum yesterday (so scum has had less PoE opportunity). Would be good to get the views of others?

We can work out the specific method after we decide to do it. Probably better if I choose again, just to avoid risk of manipulation.

[Battle Mage]

Spoiler:

...I don't want my readslist to effect the nightkill.

Nightkill's over - what do you think?

Also - what do you think of Nash skipping over PenguinPower to vote me?

---

VOTE: Nash Welcome to Froppy, and I think Nash's failed bus and skipping over PenguinPower to attempt a counterwagon on me tells us that Marashu/PenguinPower/Nash are the scumteam.

Because I wasn't convinced by the case on Midari. Your slot seemed scummiest through town!Mara.

So now that we know Marashu was scum, who are his partners?

---

• Assuming there's a mechanical solve as to why Doctor Drew is scum, I'd rather flip Nash now and flip Drew in the event BM is NK'd. I see no reason to sway my intent.

I agree, we still need to find the last one. I think I'd rather go PP though and then go back to Nash afterwards if needed.

VOTE: PenguinPower

[Battle Mage]

{word, Ari, BM}

That's where I think we should look today.

I'm guessing you don't have any reasons?

I'm offended you think so little of me.

Prove me wrong.

[Battle Mage]

BM, I thought I was scum.

Why onto PP now?

You and me both then!

1 more scum to find, you're not going anywhere.

[Battle Mage]

@Tuxedo mask

could you explain the reasons behind your vote on drew please?

Tux, you don't actually need to answer this.

Your eyes creep me out ngl.

that's the best you've got? I'll settle for a confession or a claim.

[Battle Mage]

hmmm
I think pp or nash is a good choice
pp town would increase the odds of a {looker, Bm} solve
pp scum would increase the odds of nash scum

nash seems scummy by himself, but one of the reasons is subordinated to penguins flip
VOTE: PenguinPower

why does pp town means a Looker / BM scumteam?

and also, your point on pp scum can also be made teh other way so that's not really valid in terms of priorities

i am also baffled by this.

[Battle Mage]

{word, Ari, BM}

That's where I think we should look today.

I'm guessing you don't have any reasons?

I'm offended you think so little of me.

Prove me wrong.

I mean - I kinda just gave them? Scum almost certainly bussed and you three are in the typical bus positions.

You thinking I'm scum means that I was a counterwagon to my partner and made no effort to get towncred by bussing him nor did I try to move the wagon elsewhere. That's extremely suboptimal play.

Gimme a break dude. I basically invented the Marashu-wagon. The likelihood of me bussing like

that

, in that spot, in this format, is pretty slim. Is it possible? Of course. But to have me as one of your top suspects today is ridiculous. Your justification here is superficial and low effort - I know you are better than this.

[Battle Mage]

Gimme a break dude. I basically invented the Marashu-wagon. The likelihood of me bussing like that, in that spot, in this format, is pretty slim. Is it possible? Of course. But to have me as one of your top suspects today is ridiculous. Your justification here is superficial and low effort - I know you are better than this.

Sorry you fell in that spot?

I didn't read most of the game

, but where did you invent the wagon?

Read the game then.

[Battle Mage]

I don't want to devolve this into a playstyle discussion, but....you're wrong.

Rant away in MD.

I'm sure you don't want to get into a playstyle discussion given your ethos of not reading the game.

[Battle Mage]

@Tuxedo mask

could you explain the reasons behind your vote on drew please?

BM seems ontop of this game.

Though I don't get the pivot to PP. The two competing wagons for like all of day 1 were scum, really?

PP isn't certain but I definitely wanna run him up. He's a slippery critter, best to deal with his slot early, and it's really down to him and Nash anyway for the final slot.

[Battle Mage]

I don't want to devolve this into a playstyle discussion, but....you're wrong.

Rant away in MD.

I'm sure you don't want to get into a playstyle discussion given your ethos of not reading the game.

Correct. I play by gut/tone and votes. Reading stuff from when I wasn't here doesn't really help.

If you want to help, you can point out what you're referring to for your argument otherwise I'm just going to ignore it.

I'm not going to do your job for you. You can play how you like, but don't expect me to put any stock in your reads when you haven't availed yourself of the evidence in the thread. It's all irrelevant if we eliminate you today in any case.

[Battle Mage]

I mean - towns work together but you do you boo.

Boo, you're all take and no give.

[Battle Mage]

damnit superbowl, you beat me to it!

[Battle Mage]

Blame it on the wine but I decided to start reading D1 and just the opening from midori is super look no mafia would do this so I'm town.

VOTE: Midori

Well this is scummy for a whole lot of reasons.

So vote me

Ok.

VOTE: Froppy

Froppy is in the townbloc

[Battle Mage]

L-1

I didn't see the hidden vote from Worchest

Honestly how long are you going to waffle and not put any thoughts down.

VOTE: Worch
It's getting to a point where you are just coasting thru it feels.

Going for an easy vote

yes in fairness to PP, he's priority 1 this morning because of his predecessor. I think a claim can resolve his slot.

[Battle Mage]

I still can't read your slot Froppy so ig I will have to pocket you for da day

get on the PP wagon with us then!

[Battle Mage]

I'll probably go back and read some more tomorrow, then figure out who to push - BM you down to scumhunt with me again tomorrow? If we catch another one we can officially say the BM scumhunting school formed the best townblock of all time

Word you can join us too if you want we have an extra slot since deimos got slapped

Sorry I missed this somehow.

Yes, we can scumhunt together today of course, and Word-town is welcome. Can we please run up PP first? I have a theory I want to test. We can do Nash after - promise.

[Battle Mage]

drew is confscum

[Battle Mage]

I'll probably go back and read some more tomorrow, then figure out who to push - BM you down to scumhunt with me again tomorrow? If we catch another one we can officially say the BM scumhunting school formed the best townblock of all time

Word you can join us too if you want we have an extra slot since deimos got slapped

Sorry I missed this somehow.

Yes, we can scumhunt together today of course, and Word-town is welcome. Can we please run up PP first? I have a theory I want to test. We can do Nash after - promise.

I'm fine with going to a claim if you want that info, but no matter what I will unvote after the claim. I townread this slot pretty hard

Ok I'll agree that compromise.

[Battle Mage]

also on your Looker read, Looker is Looker. In my experience, there isn't much value gained by putting pressure on him, and at some point if he's still alive you have to make a judgement call

[Battle Mage]

Excellent, I'm happy lynching PP then. I could have bought Midari's play if she was a PR just being overly worried about being directed, but definitely didn't feel vanilla.

[Battle Mage]

I'm talking about probability from my experience over a couple of hundred games over the past few years. I'm applying that general probability to this instance. So, I think you're objectively wrong in your assumption that it's 50/50 there. I don't think you have to be familiar with the meta for it to be the action that you gravitate to. There's a reason why it's been a popular action. Hard disagree with the way eod went down and Mara not being the clear lynch, especially given the posting level and the main drivers.

I already said I wasn't going to debate this point, so this will be the last I comment on it.

I'm surprised you've gone to such lengths to debate this, given your approach otherwise of not wanting to waste time/effort.

To each his own!

[Battle Mage]

Well I think I got stood up, so I may be active tonight.

My vote isn't doing anygood where it is, I want to sheep my top town read (word) but BM is also on the wagon and the way he is calling me confScum is giving me bad vibes.

I will go with my gut from yesterday.

VOTE: Penguin

giving you "bad vibes"? i would think if you were town, it'd trigger a slightly stronger reaction than that

sorry to hear you got stood up though!

[Battle Mage]

VOTE: Nash now that you have what you wanted BM

cheers dude!

and don't worry, I think you're right too. PenguinPower is a nice guy, but he never graduated from the BM School of Scumhunting.

[Battle Mage]

Excellent, I'm happy lynching PP then. I could have bought Midari's play if she was a PR just being overly worried about being directed, but definitely didn't feel vanilla.

Would a PR not out as a VT? I feel like anyone would have said VT if they were in that position.

A fake claim would be a really bad move as town here - I am 99% sure PP would not do this

Agree with this. There were strong hints that slot was either scum or PR. If he actually claimed PR and wasn't cc'd, I'd be happy to move on to Nash. But claiming vanilla basically confirms it for me.

[Battle Mage]

why do u think looker is scum with mara rn?

Ignoring the Drew case? I don't like the shade on my read change on Mara and the additional weight on my no-elim vote. I think the push is bad faith.

why did u think midaris wagon was bad?

I wasn't convinced by the case (following the path with least resistance - against lurkers) since they expressed their townreads on the more active players. The vote progression didn't give me scum pings either. And I suspected the slot to be a PR.

has ur scumlist changed after the flip?

No. If BM's mechanical information is true, I may have to re-evaluate.
If Drew is scum, I don't want to push PP. Midari x DD interactions don't look like SvS.

I want to eliminate in {TM, Ari}

I never ever want to hear that "bad faith" crap in my games again, as a justification for a vote. last time i did, that player nearly threw the entire game for town. no offence, but even if looker is scum, your case on him is non-existent.

im struggling to understand why you're pursuing an elimpool of people we clearly arent eliminating today. vanity?

given you, like me, wondered if midari was a PR and gave the slot until Day 2 on that basis why are you not voting PP now he has claimed non-PR?

i'll give all this some thought

[Battle Mage]

re-read Marashu's ISO. Probably Nash with the late distancing? Or potentially Worcestershire slot which is now Froppy?

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Nash

[Battle Mage]

that's L-2 as well, so you may as well claim. then we are 100% eliminating either you or PP today.

[Battle Mage]

Spoiler:

why do u think looker is scum with mara rn?

Ignoring the Drew case? I don't like the shade on my read change on Mara and the additional weight on my no-elim vote. I think the push is bad faith.

why did u think midaris wagon was bad?

I wasn't convinced by the case (following the path with least resistance - against lurkers) since they expressed their townreads on the more active players. The vote progression didn't give me scum pings either. And I suspected the slot to be a PR.

has ur scumlist changed after the flip?

No. If BM's mechanical information is true, I may have to re-evaluate.
If Drew is scum, I don't want to push PP. Midari x DD interactions don't look like SvS.

I want to eliminate in {TM, Ari}

I never ever want to hear that "bad faith" crap in my games again, as a justification for a vote. last time i did, that player nearly threw the entire game for town. no offence, but even if looker is scum, your case on him is non-existent.

im struggling to understand why you're pursuing an elimpool of people we clearly arent eliminating today. vanity?

given you, like me, wondered if midari was a PR and gave the slot until Day 2 on that basis why are you not voting PP now he has claimed non-PR?

i'll give all this some thought

Are you sure that player threw, after some searching in your ISO a game that you recently finished had a player that sounds like the one you are talking about... and they were town read by you late game. But guess what they were not even lynched in lylo their slot was replaced and were part of the town team that mislynched to lose. SOOOOO I'm either looking at another game that had a player similar to the one you are talking about or you are just boldly lying to our faces.

WTMoo dude...

You're probably looking at the right game. The fact they were townread by me isn't relevant to them throwing, and wasnt even based on their play in the game anyway. The point was, they were obsessed with me "talking in bad faith" and kept trying to lynch me even though I was obviously town. So probably more accurate to say they attempted to throw the game, and then fortunately replaced out, so we could lose it on our own volition. But that's less succinct and I was trying to make the point....just don't do it.

Also, literally what would be the point of me

lying

about it? I havent even suggested it could be close to AI (and it isn't!), it's just something that pisses me off. If it was AI, it would actually be town indicative of the player I'm currently trying to eliminate! No scum motivation for me here, and it's clear you haven't thought this one through. And coming after I shaded your slot, looks a bit like OMGUS?

FoS: Froppy

[Battle Mage]

that's L-2 as well, so you may as well claim. then we are 100% eliminating either you or PP today.

VT

anyway...

sweet - either way then!

Also on that basis, I'm thinking we let the hider have 1 more go.

HIDER - tonight target the person directly above you in THIS list (alphabetical order, with slight alteration to avoid double-targetting):

Aristophanes
Battle Mage
Doctor Drew
Froppy
Looker
Nash
Gypyx
PenguinPower
superbowl9
Tuxedo Mask
word321

This will be the last day of doing this - it's possible scum can PoE the hider after tonight, so after that do not direct them! Hopefully they'll crumb or something.

Good if everyone not voting either PP or Nash can do so.

[Battle Mage]

But BM you phrased it by saying that they almost threw the whole game, anyone else does not even have to look at that game but just your response to see that you were expanding the truth in order to manipulate the situation to your favor.

Dear Froppy,

Please read my previous response to you again. For added emphasis I will paraphrase here.

1. I was making the point that I find it completely annoying and stupid when people talk about "good faith" and "bad faith" because of my experience in a previous game, in order to discourage people from doing it.
2. I did not assert or suggest it was AI for Nash to have done so. Nor is the fact I raised it AI of me, because it's not relevant to anything in terms of who we elim. It's not a "are you scum/town?" question.

Therefore, to respond to your comment above, there is no "situation" I could possibly be hoping to manipulate into my favour. As noted in my previous response you didn't read, if it had been alignment indicative, I'd actually have been lying (about something verifiable which would be a stupid gambit at scum anyway btw) with the purpose of undermining my own vote and stance.

Your position on this complete non-issue has been so completely thoughtless and nonsensical, I can only assume you're either trying to antagonise me because you're that sort of character, or you're scum making a hopeless effort to shade me. In either case, you've just unhelpfully exemplified the same behaviours I was originally trying to stamp out.

Kind regards,

Battle Mage

[Battle Mage]

Also I don’t think any more claims today would be beneficial - I believe we should elim out of PP/Nash. I’ll give you my case on why I think it should be Nash later today

You stole the page top I was waiting for!

HIDER - tonight target the person directly above you in THIS list (alphabetical order, with slight alteration to avoid double-targetting):

Aristophanes
Battle Mage
Doctor Drew
Froppy
Looker
Nash
Gypyx
PenguinPower
superbowl9
Tuxedo Mask
word321

This will be the last day of doing this - it's possible scum can PoE the hider after tonight, so after that do not direct them! Hopefully they'll crumb or something.

Good if everyone not voting either PP or Nash can do so.

[Battle Mage]

we're seeking agreement? eh, i was just expecting people would go with it. i'm not in the mood for more debate after Froppy's thing earlier...

simpler approach is, if someone claims they diverted from the plan, policy daykill them for being stupid.

[Battle Mage]

PP claimed vanilla too. Agree with rest of your post Looker.

Tux - superficially sketchy but we had a good reason - wanted to pin him down to a vanilla claim when he had been crumbing a PR, to give some strength to the argument he is scum.

[Battle Mage]

can we eliminate someone already? my patience has worn thin!

[Battle Mage]

me and looker lost this setup last time - give a brother a break

[Battle Mage]

Who is the most of your worries?

clearly Nash as he's voting for him.

Tux, please vote either Nash or PP, I don't care which.

[Battle Mage]

HIDER - tonight target the person directly above you in THIS list (alphabetical order, with slight alteration to avoid double-targetting):

Aristophanes
Battle Mage
Doctor Drew
Froppy
Looker
Nash
Gypyx
PenguinPower
superbowl9
Tuxedo Mask
word321

Can u switch {ari, Bm} or {ari, word}? Can u switch {Gypyx, pp} too? I want to "check" those slots.

no. don't over-complicate it, I've done my homework.

[Battle Mage]

Who is the most of your worries?

clearly Nash as he's voting for him.

Tux, please vote either Nash or PP, I don't care which.

Still trying to see how I feel about the town bloc. Hard bussing Marashu day 1 is a fine strategy, and the way day two has shaken out has been weird. I'd pick PP over Nash. I at least understood where Nash was coming from end of Day 1. I don't PP has been trying to solve at all today, just arguing about theory stuff.

i wouldnt have bussed marashu, he seemed like a nice dude.

it feels a bit like scum have given up.

im fine with you voting PP for that valid reason.

[Battle Mage]

I'm V/LA across all my games for the next 5 days. Aiming to login once per day but activity will be limited.

[Battle Mage]

Prod received.

I have to shower then I will work on a post here.

Long shower there, buddy.

can someone go in and check if he's ok?

[Battle Mage]

massclaim probably good. Dunnstral speculation bad. I'll be back tonight with more wisdom so we can wrap this one up. Don't get too trigger happy in the meantime please.

[Battle Mage]

you tracked me last night? what was the point of that?!

I was essentially conftown anyway...

Not to worry, I think this game is pretty much in the bag anyway.

[Battle Mage]

massclaim probably good. Dunnstral speculation bad.

??

dont worry the speculation was fine actually, I was distracted and not thinking properly.

[Battle Mage]

seriously though, imagine not tracking Nash or Drew.

[Battle Mage]

Did Aristophanes visit anyone N1? I'm assuming not, based on his weird posting so far today.

[Battle Mage]

I'll be amazed if we can't make it a clean sweep today if we finish the massclaim quickly, and spend some time going through the voting patterns and interactions.

Key is: no rush.

[Battle Mage]

Did Aristophanes visit anyone N1?

There's no reason for me to claim that

It's a massclaim. No offence, but your claim hasn't told us anything really apart from the fact you are town if you don't get cc'd. At least we can narrow down the pool today with 2 more conftowns (hider and other PR), and then we can actually solve it with maximum information.

You were right to suggest it, but if we're doing it, let's not fk around?

[Battle Mage]

Ok so, for clarity,

EVERYONE SHOULD CLAIM IMMEDIATELY

:

Nash

Battle Mage - Vanilla

Aristophanes
Gypyx
Looker
superbowl9
Froppy
Doctor Drew

Dunnstral - Tracker

Confirms BM-town.

[Battle Mage]

if you saw Aristophanes target somebody who wasn't NKed night 1, it would also confirm them as town.

[Battle Mage]

and they aren't the hider, so there's only 1 PR they could even possibly be

[Battle Mage]

Isn't this setup crazy townsided?

town got annihilated last time this setup ran.

[Battle Mage]

Massclaim tally

Nash

Battle Mage - Vanilla

Aristophanes

Gypyx - Vanilla

Looker
superbowl9

Froppy - Psychologist

Doctor Drew

Dunnstral - Tracker

Confirms BM-town.[/quote]

Not sure why Froppy is discounting the possibility of Drew as Hider, which is a distinct possibility. Although he could also be scum. Don't think that result tells us much.

[Battle Mage]

Alright with that claim it's deducible that Ari didn't target anyone night 1

Drew isn't cleared it's a 50/50 on who would shoot, which we can't figure out

we just need 1 hider result on not me/you/dead person

if not then that's fine, hider doesn't have to claim and we can make a new target list that doesn't include you + battle mage + me so we're not overlapping anything

Hider should claim regardless now to conf-town themselves and narrow the pool for today.

I'm not remotely worried about whether we can mathematically guarantee avoiding defeat here - I'm fairly confident we can end this today, or at worst tomorrow, regardless. The reason we're at this point is because town has been dominating scum, and don't see why that should change.

Yes Dunnstral, you're correct that the Detective is better than the Psychologist. And yes, I've been clear throughout that nobody should ever be picking Vig over Tracker here.

[Battle Mage]

I am the hider.

And yes, I hid behind word and BM.

I figured that was probably the case yesterday which is why I was happy with you targeting me last night (obviously at that point I didn't know for certain PP would be lynched and flip scum, and your hands were unhelpfully tied by the list). Makes total sense - apologies if I offended with the whole "Drew is scum" shtick.

[Battle Mage]

[quote="In post 1248, Battle Mage"]

Massclaim tally

Nash - Vanilla

Aristophanes - Vanilla

Gypyx - Vanilla

Looker - Unclaimed, but presumably vanilla

superbowl9 - Vanilla

Battle Mage - Vanilla

Froppy - Psychologist

Doctor Drew - Hider Confirms BM-town

Dunnstral - Tracker Confirms BM-town.

It's nice to be literally the towniest most conf-town townie ever in the history of mafia.

Lynchpool of Nash (obvious top candidate), Aristophanes (pretty scummy as i recall), Gypyx, Looker and Superbowl. I will re-read some bits and give some comments on each in the next couple of rl days.

We can lynch 1 today, and I guess Drew should declare in advance who he will target from the remaining pool - so we know if he dies who the final scum is. Dunn should also target from within that pool, and not the same person as Drew targets. If Drew hits town, scum has a choice to kill hider + VT or Tracker (the former narrows the pool by 2 more with 1 tracker-conf and 1 dead VT and the latter narrows it by 1 but we keep the hider and have 1 extra town body). if Drew hits scum, we win anyway.

[Battle Mage]

Does the player get to choose?

Yes player can choose
tracker/vig
detective/psychologist

Also Froppy you didn't choose it but I wouldve gone with psychologist assuming there's no vigi, no? It basically removes the false positive of a goon who didn't kill

Oh worcestire chose it, that explains things

The player doesn't get to choose detective/psychologist - it's randomly determined.

[Battle Mage]

Jesus BM your school is better than advertised.

I'm VT

I'd love to say this is unusual, but this happens in all my games. Even my early townblock was full of townies. If Nash is scum, I may as well retire on the ultimate high.

[Battle Mage]

So to win the game:
1. Elim Nash today
2. Drew, Froppy, and Dunstrall investigate Ari, gypyx, and looker respectively
3. If Froppy or Dunstrall get positive, elim their positive result. If Drew dies, elim Ari. If no one gets positive, elim me.

If scum don't nightkill obviously we just keep elimming outside conftown until we win

No mate. Froppy's role is useless, he isn't a cop. So we have 2 investigatives.

Just go with my steer in post 1266 for today/tonight, and then we can deal with the rest later. I'll still be alive tomorrow regardless, so not worried about planning too far in advance.

[Battle Mage]

Eh, i kinda wanted to try to survive for as long as possible but on second thoughts i think we all have better things to do with our life

And now time to cast my first vote of the game

VOTE: Gypyx

this is pretty sucky - I wanted to play this one out to see if we could get a clean sweep legitimately.

[Battle Mage]

We win.

Right there there's 9 people alive, 4 of which can't be mafia

If Nash is town and mafia kill Drew + Ari and I get an innocent tracker result...

6 people alive, 4 of which can't be mafia (Tracker + 2 clears + Psychologist) - both candidates can be eliminated before a loss

If mafia kill me instead and Drew gets an innocent on Ari...

7 people alive, 4 of which can't be mafia (Tracker Clear + Hider Clear + Hider + Psychologist) -

all 3 candidates can be eliminated before a loss

The bit in bold is not necessarily true with the presence of a hider. As such, scum could theoretically have still won this game, and the giving up was premature and needless. I've won as scum in a worse position than this.

[Battle Mage]

Ah well, a disappointing end, but a really good game overall - strategy worked a treat and learning from the mistakes of when this setup last ran really helped.

A strong advert for the BM school of scumhunting and the mighty townblock which was all town.

[Battle Mage]

We win.

Right there there's 9 people alive, 4 of which can't be mafia

If Nash is town and mafia kill Drew + Ari and I get an innocent tracker result...

6 people alive, 4 of which can't be mafia (Tracker + 2 clears + Psychologist) - both candidates can be eliminated before a loss

If mafia kill me instead and Drew gets an innocent on Ari...

7 people alive, 4 of which can't be mafia (Tracker Clear + Hider Clear + Hider + Psychologist) -

all 3 candidates can be eliminated before a loss

The bit in bold is not necessarily true with the presence of a hider. As such, scum could theoretically have still won this game, and the giving up was premature and needless. I've won as scum in a worse position than this.

Nah it was gg as long as hider hides in the PoE cause any 2-for-1 then also saves town an elim

ah thats true. still though, shame not to finish it.

[Battle Mage]

My Day 1 4-player scumpool had all 3 scum in it

Scumpool:

piisirattional

Marashu
Midari Ikishima (Penguin Power)
ceejayvinoya (Gypyx)

Townpool:
Deimos27
word321
superbowl9
Worcestershire

To be confirmed:
Tuxedo Mask
votato
Doctor Drew
brassherald

[Battle Mage]

Yeah we had a mechanical win no matter what

I think BM read everyone correctly multiple times in this game? Glad i hopped into that scumhunting school

when do scummy award nominations close?

[Battle Mage]

congratulations to my townblock for passing the first semester

[Battle Mage]

I'm still saving up tuition for Rolling Town 101...

I did respect your honesty on that one!

[Battle Mage]

sorry for early resignation and general bad play btw, i was completely psychologically crushed, really need to work on self-confidence

also BM are you always that good or is that just a fluke? x)

I don't think you played bad! You were the last surviving team member, so there's something to be said for that, and you may have survived a bit longer.

I'd love to say I'm always this good, but I've had some real shitty performances as town this year.

I think I'm improving though, which is something, so hopefully more games like this in future!

[Battle Mage]

just seen that Midari was crumbing in order to fakeclaim Vig.

I have no words to adequately describe how bad a plan this was.