Micro 952 - The Coalition: ItGBSMoD [game over!]

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

deimos my number 1 townread right now

he's so clueless he has to be town

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

let's win this first day boys

get it done

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

I think we have a 85% chance of winning this game outright if townies act really townie



let's do it

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

DC pretty susp

a real townie would've said yes

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

what

why did you stop playing chess with me ??

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

I think there are 2 high-ev methods to play day 1.

1) we figure out 5 definite townies, throw em in the coalition - win the game.

2) we throw the 5 worst players in the coalition - if they're scum we will kick their asses in the real game cuz they're bad.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

nah

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

oh that's nice

let's try to get the coalition right then

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

we also won't know how many scum are in the coalition yes? So that's a bad plan there pooky.

50% of my mafia play is making bad plans and seeing who figures out they are terrible.

Votato a real G here

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

oh snap I just realized we have exactly 5 lovers from the other game here together

it's like a reunion.

Let's do it guys

HEAL: SLEEPERSOUL

The Real G who almost got there

HEAL: BUGSPRAY

My Chess Playing Time Traveling Lover

HEAL: TUXEDO MASK

The fool blinded by love

HEAL: VOTATO

The Bad Man who killed us all

HEAL: POOKY

One Teddy Bear to Save the Day

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

I'm ready for DC's solve

Take me to Money Town

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

I'm reading you as town why would I fight you

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

HEAL: DEIMOS
HEAL: SLEEPERSOUL
HEAL: DC
HEAL: Pooky
HEAL: Votato

fixed tags

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Pooky, you ignored my request for a fight, now you're ready for DC's boring plan.... wtf?

The Champ Champ does whatever the fuck the Champ Champ wants

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Deimos and DC stepped up and you guys were awol

step up or get left behind

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

I think we have a real chance for getting the fastest town win ever in a game of mafia

let's get this done today

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

have you already sorted me pooky? or do i need to do more?

yea we good

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

have you already sorted me pooky? or do i need to do more?

Is this real? As in do you think pooky should be able to have a read on you already?

We were lovers in a past life

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

@bugspray what do you think of all this? I didn't include you in my coalition either because I barely read you last game.

Bugspray probably busy playing chess in his mafia PT and doesn't have time to talk to us

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

we arent gonna discuss day 2 because it could help scum to discuss it now.
its serious. welcome to the coalition, pooky.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

There's no need to talk about Day 2 when we can just win on Day 1

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Pick 4 other townies

Be right

Win Game

Let's Go!

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

um me getting mislynched that game had literally nothing to do with bugspray, he literally wasn't even playing that game lolol

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

I mean, we town read eachother while 'fighting' last game.... So him not wanting to do it this game came off as AI. you think it's NAI?

For it to be a true fight, there must be consequences - life and death -lynch or let live. Without the danger there can be no information gained.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

bugspray was pretty easy to read as town

he literally wasn't even there lol

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

I don't know how you read bugspray.
Maybe the chess moves were townie? hehe

This is the only thing he said to me in our PT:

"i still sr your slot so i dont have a real reason to engage with u"


If he's scum he's trying to manipulate me and snow me, he was a 0-effort townie instead.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Well, this makes sense. I'd vote you now to stir up shit but I'm legit 50/50 on you right now. Maybe 51% town.

you know the default probability is like 77.7% right?

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

i mean thats pretty good cover to hide behind as scum too though.

usually in lover games the scum are busy putting their tentacles all into their lovers heads and getting them to lynch town

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

yea you'd be pretty terrible as scum ngl

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

sleeper has to be town

if he was scum he would've told us all about it by now

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

yea it's meta from playing 1 game with him,

he doesn't have a filter between his head and his mouth

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

So he was scum in the game you played? What he do that constituted "telling" you his alignment?

he's a stream of consciousness poster who is also a noob, he kind of just blurts out whatever he's thinking and most noob scum tend to be more lurky - I'd expect his post count to be lower if he was scum but the fact that he's just randomly spamming whatever random thoughts pop into his head at this point feels to me to be TI.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

if Sleepersoul was scum this is what he would look like:

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

They are also being way less confrontational.

are you high or something?

I'm less confrontational because we're in the look for good guys phase, not the look for bad guys phase.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Pooky can you comment on the difference in your state of mind here compared to in Lovers?

in that game we were trying to lynch people who are bad

in this game we are trying to figure out who is good and convince other people you are good.

We build a good coalition on day 1 we won't even have to do the scum hunting thing so obviously the approach is completely different.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Like I'm not even looking for scum right now, so it makes no sense to run aggressive attacks on people since we're doing coalition building not scum lynching

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

You can still make a town block by aggressively scum hunting. You just use POE.

that's such an ass-backwards way of building a good town block.


Attacking people to try to make them slip doesn't really work when you're not in the lynching phase of the game. if anything it's a distraction.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

I consider your playstyle a distraction regardless. If you think someone is scummy and can convince others, that seems like a good way to keep scum out of the coalition.

I'm gonna keep scum out of my coalition by not picking them to be in it.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Yo pooky what did you think of my coalition?

its only 3 people right now

you Im fine with
sleeper I'm fine with

I'd have to re-read ebi

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

I really don't see it as a reason to play differently, care to explain? It also doesn't wave away the reduced post count. Something Bear said they do as scum

You're really comparing my workday post count to my weekend post count?

What could possibly be the reason for the difference. Let me think about that and get back to you.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Town hunting or scum hunting to build the coalition the end results should be the same. Also Bear plays that way to garner reactions from people, so what he's doing is far from what I've seen. Again I feel garnering reactions by aggressively baring people from a coalition could yield results. But Bear seems content to just sit back and hope townies present themselves.

1. Attacking people and getting them lynched yields very different results from excluding someone from a coalition

2. Watching how people behave on their own is pretty good for first getting a baseline behavior before you begin reaction testing. You do not go straight to reaction testing right away.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Right, I forgot you posted your schedule at the start of the game.

I think it's fair to assume most people work on Tuesday and have Saturday off. Using my post count difference between the two games is frankly nonsense since I was busy away from the keyboard for large parts of today.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

and also post count has a lot to do with interactions, if I'm not interacting very heavily with anyone obviously the post count is going to be lower than a game where I'm fighting someone back and forth in the lynch phase of the game.

Most of your points against me are complete nonsense.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

nah he could just be dumb, most scum don't go out on the attack this early

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

ebi looks pretty good but I like deimos better

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

pretty good chance they're both town,

i might even bump votato off the coalition and do ebi/deimos instead

all 3 are very close for me

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

clover ebi

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

deimos my number 1 townread right now

he's so clueless he has to be town

Ah, someone that can read me.

this line didn't feel scummy

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

yea and you shouldn't talk about those ways out of thread lol

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

you guys should drop this subject and just scrub sleeper's comments for the last 2 pages just to avoid tainting the other game

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

as long as datisi scrubs the comments pretty fast and nobody from the other game sees them it should be no harm done

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Votato you're in the leading Coalition right now

how do you feel about it?

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

pretty sure the ponies do not get angry

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

bugspray has requested replacement.

clearly this means he's scum

if he's townie he'd just be sleeping through this game and show up sometime after the game is over

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Koba entrance into the game:

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

aight

i skimmed again.

HEAL: Tuxedo
HEAL: DC
HEAL: alduskkel
HEAL: votato
HEAL: DkKoba

HURT: Deimos
HURT: Pooky

VOTE: Pooky

I'd put Koba at 50% scum

he's either trying desperately to fight his way onto the coalition because he knows we are about to win easily.

or

he's a misguided townie who wants to make a splash but fell flat on his face

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Like there's 2 possible game states.

the leading coalition right now is PureTown and we're about to win and the 2 scum are noobs and have no clue what they're doing - in which case they are in the lurker pile or whatever.

or

The leading coalition is already infected and the scum are lying low.

I think scenario 1 is more likely - it fits with Bugspray replacing out as he realizes he has 0 impact on the game - makes sense why Koba comes in swinging all his fists and trying to get onto the Coalition and attacking me. He sees his role card, knows he's on the verge of losing and is going all in because he's got nothing to lose - if he doesn't make it into the coalition he's done.

Sorry buddy, Bugspray did you dirty.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

I have my vote on you because I know this town will be stubborn and not switch but when it inevitably fails you will be the first to go!

ok when this coalition wins the game on day 1 I'm gonna be sitting on a beach sipping a mai-tai while your scum butt is on the first boat out

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

also where did you get that you should refer to me as he/him?

i literally have:

an anime girl as my pfp
pronoun shows as they
and nonbinary flag in pfp

please stop calling me a he! thank you.

what's the correct way to say this:


he's either trying desperately to fight his way onto the coalition because he knows we are about to win easily.

or

he's a misguided townie who wants to make a splash but fell flat on his face



I am bad at grammar sorry

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Pooky what’s your sleeper read based on again?

it's based on I would know if he's scum because he has no filter

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

I'm gonna take myself out of my coalition just to make sure things don't get ahead of me like last game.

HURT: SleeperSoul

Or is that not gonna help? I still feel the sting of the days of last game ending sooner than I wanted.

I'm not sure how I feel about Koba. You guys seem a lot more certain lol

you don't take yourself out dude, your alignment is the only one you have 100% knowledge of

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

yea that's how you do it

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

if my coalition is wrong I will self

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

the post you reference is a joke based on bugspray being my townie lover in the previous game and basically doing 0 posting except chess moves in the PT with me while the game was going on, sometime after the game was finished he showed up and was very confused why the game was over. I found it hilarious that he was basically afk this game and then replaced out.

Koba's posts sound like the desperate cries of a scum trying to bang their way into the coalition - there does not seem to be much logic, just desperation - feels like scum seeing the train leave the station and trying to get on like a madman.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Let's look at Koba's posts when they enter the game:

i skimmed the thread b4 subbing in and I think pooky shouldn't be in it btw

bugspray has requested replacement.

clearly this means he's scum

if he's townie he'd just be sleeping through this game and show up sometime after the game is over

ok scum

deimos my number 1 townread right now

he's so clueless he has to be town

let's win this first day boys

get it done

I think we have a 85% chance of winning this game outright if townies act really townie



let's do it

i know yall dont take much stock in daystarts but this is a triple whammy post where they are s onervous to appear town that they need to restate mechs and stuff and thats why I said they were scum btw.


they scumtold right off the start and u wanna put them in ur coalition

im actually reading harder into their ISO.. how TF did yall let him get in so far??????????????????

reading the first four posts it's a pretty heavy attack on me, koba makes it clear I am to be suspected and not allowed on the coalition at any cost - logically that would make me a big fat scum in koba's eyes.

Now would should the logical play be then from KobaTown?

I posit there are 2 ways KobaTown plays it.

A) Substitute themselves into the Leading Coalition in Lieu of Me - this is the most straightforward way to win - if they believe I am running the town as some kind of scum-leader - it makes sense to just sub themselves into my spot in the coalition and if the rest of the coalition can accept this - they will auto win right away assuming they are correct that I am the scum-leader in the coalition and my partner is outside (optimal play for scum) If they are wrong they can accept being lynched for this mistake.

This is the strongest and most aggressive line that Koba-Town can take if their opening line that I am scum is actually a True-Thought.

B) Substitute someone else that the Coalition can accept for my spot in the Coalition - this is a lower EV play as Koba is not as sure of the other player's viability.

But instead what does Koba do? They sub out 3 players from Leading Coalition and Puts up 3 new players - this doesn't really make sense or fit with their belief that Pooky is definitely scum manipulating the coalition - unless he thinks Pooky put multiple scum into the coalition (suboptimal play) or they are not nearly as sure about Pooky as they are putting on.


Koba is not really trying to win the game as town on the first-go-around - their goal is to peel someone off the coalition and get the other people together who are off-coalition into a new coalition because they want to be in-coalition at all costs - they know if the present leading coalition fires off they probably lose the game immediately.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

If KobaTown comes into the game and sees a big fat Pooky Scum sitting in the middle of the town square manipulating people and setting up the town for imminent death - the game state should then be:


KobaTown

Leading Coalition ( 4 townies + PookyScum)
Outsiders (2 Townies + ScumBuddy)

The way for KobaTown to basically win at that point is to say:

Pooky is scum - I'm 100% sure of it, I don't know how you guys let him on the Coalition in the first place - but if you put me in the Coalition instead of Pooky we 100% win right away. I will wager my life on this - if I am wrong I will commit Seppuku and you can lynch me.



Instead they comes in, attacks three people on the Leading Coalition - proposes their own coalition of people who are off-Coalition ( this makes no sense if they believe me to be Scum manipulating the town because if I'm scum shaping the coalition then my scum-buddy by definition has to be off-coalition so them shuffling him into the coalition doesn't make any sense)

Hence I believe Koba is inherently dishonest about his reads - he's basically just trying to bang his way into the coalition and not go out on Day 1.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Why is your current proposition all town bud? Why are YOU town?

I'm town cuz my role pm says so


I was actually worrying about my coalition last night cuz it seemed to be cruising along a bit too fine

now watching you try to desperately bang your way into the party like a madman got me feeling pretty good about my coalition.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

MY PRONOUNS ARE THEY THEM STOP USING HE HIM

it's hard to substitute pronouns

i got most of them right but missed like 2 at the end- don't pretend to be angry if you really cared you would've noticed like 90% of my pronoun use was right and I just missed a few at the end.

just fake anger manufactured because the case against is air-tight.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

I didn't say you didn't say you would seppuku

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

your case has more holes than swiss cheese and I already exposed a gaping one. stop trying to gaslight u scum piece of shit

which one?

point it out

you're just flailing at this point

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

right now Koba's desperately trying to find a hole in my argument, they are pretending they are so "angry" that they have to take an hour off to "cool off"

This type of emotional appeal is pretty pathetic tbh. Bush league stuff. You're scum, you lost, just accept it and move on to the next game. At least this will be faster than all those town games you lost in a row.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Do you think Pooky's push on me is Town?

show me the holes

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

I like how you said my case had more holes than swiss chess but now can't point a single one out after half hour of looking

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

would you as town sit back and let a coalition happen without yourself on it happen without fighting it? because I'm more suspicious of people who are not concered with getting on the coalition right now with my belief that scum is already on it with 0 pressure before I came in.

False Dilemma

My case against you has to do with how you tried to get on the Coalition - not that you tried to get on the Coalition in the first place.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

you called my case full of holes like swiss cheese and you already exposed a gaping one. I'm still waiting for it.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Your assumption is that I am scum because i oppose the current leading coalition hard. Assuming automatically i am scum without any analysis. I already explain i dont feel comfortable with multiple slots on the Coalition. If you feel so confident about it then you should have a good argment for it instead of this circular logic.

that's not what I said

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Also want to revive this post. I believe don TMI'd which tells me he should be on no coalitions. Why do you think he should be on your coalition pooky? I think this a scum spewing

I found his initial posts to be earnest and likely town-aligned

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

ok then explain it simply. Because that is what I interpreted from your main point about me being scum to you.

I did explain it, you should read my posts

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

I'm bored of this already

you're using the 1000 questions defense in which you ignore the attack and just distract with a bunch of random questions until the thread of the argument is lost and the post count is too long for anyone else to follow.

I'm going to stop engaging with you as it's obviously pointless at this time.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

You don't want to have an honest discussion, you are scum trying to obfuscate by spamming a crapload of random things and making me re-state myself over and over so that anyone reading this thread loses focus and doesn't even know what we're talking about at the end of this if they even read to the end of this.

as this is a total waste of time I will no longer be engaging with your spot in the game. I consider you scum, I will not vote for you to be on my coalition. If you somehow seize control and get yourself coalition'ed and we get to the lynch phase my vote will automatically be on you.

Good day

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

yes but now that i recognize you are just spamming and not really arguing in good faith there's no reason to continue engaging with you.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

lol what

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

did you even read the conversation I had with Koba?

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

don't feed the troll votato

better to just ignore their existence

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

on discord mafia I would've just blocked you but this site doesn't have that functionality

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Pooky is absolutely frozen

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Like this is basically a misrepresentation (the questions aren't random) and is setting up a situation where Koba even asking questions is "scummy." Then at the end Pooky frames his attempt to shut down the conversation as pro-town.

The questions are designed to deflect from the current topic.

I posted a pretty comprehensive case on why Koba's attacks on me are fake af and the reasons why are pretty obvious if you break down their play strategically in post 465 and 468.

They then immediately blew up at me and posted these beautiful posts:

also that post literally reeks of shit.

self

btw proof I said I would "seppuku"

nice try pooky!

your case has more holes than swiss cheese and I already exposed a gaping one. stop trying to gaslight u scum piece of shit

Explosive? Sure. Emotional? You betcha, but no real content or any real rebuttal to the substance of my case.

I then gave Koba multiple chances to back up his assertions that I "reeked of shit" and was "gaslighting" and that my case had holes like "swiss cheese" as he so eloquently put it.

He didn't actually explain - just continued attacking me with more emotional appeals - used a false dilemma logical fallacy and then a strawman logical fallacy, when I called him on those he began peppering me with all sorts of questions in order to deflect from the original topic of discussion.

If Koba is not interested in an honest discussion - he's a troll-scum trying to attack his way onto the coalition by flinging shit at everyone and hoping it sticks somewhere. I'm not answering his questions for the obvious reason that he didn't answer mine and there's no point discussing things with someone who is not participating in good faith.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

btw I find it implausible that you can actually be offended that I messed up your pronouns when you're literally calling me a "piece of shit" so please don't do that emotional appeal nonsense it looks fake af

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Point in case ^^^^^^^^ can't even rebut anything. All he has is "you're wrong" while putting his fingers in his ears refusing to accept criticism why are you shying away from taking a hard stance on your reads?

You didn't rebut any of my point either

just ignored them and spammed the thread with 50 posts of garbage nonsense and now you're trying to pretend you're the reasonable one and I'm bad for ignoring you.

and somehow I'm the one gaslighting? lol ok kid

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

what a troll post lol

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

I'm not going to be convinced by you unvoting me

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

votes are meaningless anyway we're in the coalition phase

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

you're framing a 1 dimensional attack on me on why you think I'm scum. 0 analysis.

it's not a 1 dimensional attack - I analyze your POV from the assumption that you are town entering the game finding himself off-coalition and with a strong suspicion of my slot and conclude your actions after that fact do not make sense.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Its ok I believe in you, you can reach the correct conclusion on my alignment someday.. even if its in the post game <3

this kind of emotional manipulation tactic where you attack the target wildly and then slowly recede into more reasonable territory in order to try to get reciprocity will only work on noobs.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

I don't need to analyze your coalition because your actions have already revealed my coalition is clean to me

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

if it goes thru and doesn't win the game right away I'm gonna stop playing and proxy my vote off to you

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

pooky. ignore them. its not productive.

I know I need to stop being so easily baited by the troll =[

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

How about you stop dodging questions and actually explain your coalition

I explained my coalition when I put it together.

It's kinda fustrating when people don't read the game and just keep asking you the same dumb questions over and over.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

You're conveniently ignoring post 492.

Which line in that post rebuts my case?

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

maybe you should read the entire day instead of just 1 post then

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

maybe you should read the posts before that posts to see the context and not bother me with nonsense

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

late night troll brigade out in force

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

None of these explain your damn coalition. At best you can say you explained Deimos's place, but that was a read you made on the first page.

I looked into their souls and determined they were worthy

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

you are scum

there won't be any policy hangings because our coalition will win and you can cry about how we didn't play the game your way in the postgame

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

he's obviously distancing off you because you're scum together

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

we're not lying

if you actually read the first 10 pages of the game it's pretty obvious how we put this coalition together.

looking at ISOs completely misses the context.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

he's obviously distancing off you because you're scum together

there it is!! saw it coming

It's not my fault you and your scumbuddy are so transparent about trying to break in.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

you really think scum would be that obvious?

You guys don't really have a choice, caught on the backfoot, coming into the game late with a pure-town coalition already set up and about to lock in the win.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

yea if the coalition fails I will put you at obv-town

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

because the way I'm reading it is that you actually are pretty much full of shit about your townreads on people and are basing it off a scumread on me and a magical scenario where I am fighting a coalition that is all town.

rofl is this a joke I put my coalition together before you even replaced into the game

you just confirmed it for me

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

If that were true I would have tried to disrupt it way earlier. Try again.

that's just wifom logic

maybe you were busy doing something else or just didn't have the time to get caught up.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Pooky since Alduskkel and I are scum, why don't we swap you out with someone else? Like Tuxedo?

thanks for revealing your real scum buddy

this game is easy

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

I throw sheep entrails at the wall and the blood spray pattern will reveal who the bad people are

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

People with high post counts are usually town ~~

this is true but most of your posts are just spamming and avoiding actual discussion by hitting your target with tons of questions and then flooding the thread with one liners or 1 word posts that have no game-relevance.

when you analyze post count by content versus nonsense it's pretty clear you're just trying to confuse/snow the town by flooding this thread with garbage posts.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

wow my coalition is literally replacing out because ScumKona has managed to be so toxic they don't want to play anymore.

that's a pretty good strategy. well played, bravo

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

10 new pages, 2 replacements

What happened here

like 70% of the posts are just kona spamming random stuff to make the thread unreadable

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

I've come to my senses and no longer buy Pooky's case because I think it's clear that Koba had doubts about multiple players in the coalition (at least myself in addition to Pooky) and it's hence logical he'd try to replace more than just one spot.

It's illogical to have suspicions about 3 players on the coalition and want 3 players switched out.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

When it comes to this passage I accidentally quoted earlier, I think Pooky's 233 is excellent in that it accounts for why he's in a cooperative framing rather than a confrontational one. But now that I see it again 242 is horrendous logic and starts to come off as contrived. Attacking people and provoking scumslips is perfectly functional as a strategy in coalition, and such a blatant dismissal gives me the same sense of feigned indignation I earlier observed in Clover.

Attacking people and provoking scumslips is a good strategy in coalition if you see the leading coalition taking off without you and you're sure a certain player on that coalition is scum and shouldn't be included.


When you're putting together the leading coalition - that's a completely different frame of reference - you don't want to muddy the thread with fights over nonsense - you want people to be posting their unfiltered thoughts.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

That isn't intrinsically illogical. It depends on the 3 players, and the reasoning for why they are being suspected.

It's illogical because the default strategy for scum is one-on one-off.

If you switch 3 suspicious people on-coalition for 3 off-coalition people, even if you are right about one of those three people you switched off - you end up with their scumbuddy instead and end up in the hot seat when the coalition fails

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Aldus summaries my thoughts on the argument better than I could

I don't mean his questions are random or non-game relevant. That's a very silly way to read my post.

I mean that I laid out my case for why his line of play is illogical and wrong and hints at his alignment/position not being town.

But instead of answering my case - he obfuscates by angrily spamming the thread with question after question on my behavior instead - this is a very typical whataboutism/1000 question defense.

For example one of the very first things he says about my case against him is that it is full of holes like swiss cheese and that I reek of shit - this is a very violent attack - when I ask him to justify it by pointing out specifics - he immediately shifts into hitting me with question after question.

These aren't "random questions" like why is the sky blue? Where does the moon go when it's not in our sky etc.

The questions have a specific goal and purpose - it is to shift the conversation away from the previous attack and into territory more favorable for the questioner - by controlling the conversation he can shift it towards something else instead.

Now if you guys believe that behavior is protown- then by all means put kona in your coalition and leave me out - it's fine. Just a game and I'm not going to waste my time trying to convince you all that something obviously scummy is scummy.

After the coalition fails with me off it, don't come after me with your lynch rope until you lynch kona-scum first thanks.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

and is setting up a situation where Koba even asking questions is "scummy." Then at the end Pooky frames his attempt to shut down the conversation as pro-town.

It's not the act of asking questions that is scummy.

It's the act of using questions to divert conversation so he doesn't have to defend himself in the heat of the moment that is scummy.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

they can think I'm scum all they want because in case they haven't noticed the conversation has moved on and I've already said my piece.

I thought we were already past all this but people keep bringing this shit up - I am just responding to posts on this page

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Why aren't you willing to consider that koba's anti-town play could be coming from a townie? Isn't that how people are saying their previous games went?

If Koba is a townie then the original coalition has someone in it that's scum and I haven't figured out who it is despite reading this game over and over again - if you can make a reasonable case that someone on the original coalition that Koba blasted is scum, then I'd be happy to take a look at that.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Like let's say your core group is Klick - Koba - Sleeper.

That means there's a scum in Deimos - DonC - Pooky (leftover from the original coalition)

Now I've re-read DonC and Deimos multiple times and they both feel very town to me ~> if you can point out something I'm missing I'm all ears.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Accepting that your case has a gaping hole in it and not defending that isn't going to cut it for me, pooky. Your here defense is that "my case isn't swiss cheese because swiss cheese has multiple holes in it but my case has one big hole in it"

you called my case full of holes like swiss cheese and you already exposed a gaping one. I'm still waiting for it.

as in I'm waiting for the gaping hole he says he found...

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Why does Klick/Koba/Sleeper-town necessitate a scum in Pooky/Deimos/Don? There are seven town.

because if Deimos/Don/Pooky/Sleeper/Klick aka the original coalition was all-town - then someone on the off-coalition scum team should be fighting to get in it because if they don't fight to get on it, they just auto-lose.

Now in my original read of the game - this scum is Kona.

If the current consensus is right that Kona is town and the present towncore of Klick/Sleeper/Kona is pure-Town then where are the scum trying to fight to get on the wagon? ~ they would have to be on the leftovers of the original coalition - Pooky-DC-Deimos.

I don't believe the scum just opened the game and decided to hide underground and let the town waltz to a win so either we have scum who have given up on the game or we are wrong about something.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

okay, I thought you meant you were waiting for more holes.... but I'm still not convinced I should co you as of now, because to me koba's points on you make sense.

if your read is that I'm waiting for "more holes" then what is the original hole that Koba exposed but I did not address?

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

do you think koba is scum or do you just have issues with them as a player?

pedit: scum can have egos, and I don't see town confbiasing THIS hard on reads they formed THAT early.

Stop it, get out of my head probscum

why am i probscum

I'm bored of this already

you're using the 1000 questions defense in which you ignore the attack and just distract with a bunch of

random

questions until the thread of the argument is lost and the post count is too long for anyone else to follow.

I don't mean his questions are random or non-game relevant. That's a very silly way to read my post.

:thonk:

@Koba: You missed some questions I asked you in 965.

When I said Koba was attacking with random questions - I do not mean his questions are randomy and pointless - I mean they have a specific purpose but they are irrelevant to the line of conversation we were on.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

also pooky if you're willing to read me in good faith and discuss things I will talk but I'm going to continue to ignore anything you say about me and not respond to it until you agree to have a conversation and not just a conf bias 1 way dialogue

I'm not going to trust you until I figure out who the rat on the original coalition is

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Fuck it I guess Kona really is town.

Back to the drawing board.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

HURT: all

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

I still like sleeper for town. Going to reread the other three again and drink some whiskey.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

1103

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

well before 1103 I was wavering cuz koba so insistent on me being on the coalition and that doesn't make sense if they are scum

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

I got the opposite vibe - I didn't like 1103 much at all. It felt out of place compared to their complaints about inactivity.

DK, can I ask how you'd play this spot as scum? and how that contrasts your current play? I figure you know how to read you better than any of us

I see them as consistent - they want more participation from the players to read through and get a firmer read on the game before making a decision - this is consistent with not wanting to rush the coalition through while many are not very engaged in the game-state. If the coalition fails we should have a better read of the game.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

sometimes I wonder if Sleeper is even living in the same dimension as the rest of us

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

I'm 100% town

I'll become 200% when I figure out how to lift the maximum rating

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

I'm here right now:


HEAL: DkKoba
HEAL: Pooky
HEAL: Klick
HEAL: Sleeper

Re-read Klick ISO twice tonight - I don't think he comes up with 972 if he's scum, feels like a very townie thought to have and very out there - initial flow-train reads very cleanly and townie feels throughout. I like where he asks me to prove that I'm town to him.

What's the case on Clover?

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

well I need a positive reason

preferably a post that I can look at and say "hmm there's no way a scum would post that".

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

I did reread you - there wasn't much to read.

Nothing pinged me as very strongly AI one way or the other.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

I still don't get why Clover is being townread into coalition but I will add them for the sake of getting this over with if you guys all want him in

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

oh i didnt even know the deadline was for day 1 - thought it was just for coalition picking oops

HEAL: clover

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

I can't vote koba after that heart to heart shit

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

clover is my top for scum in coalition because I'm pretty damn certain of the other 3 in the coalition.

I haven't even really looked outside coalition but I think DC is town

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

You were incredibly intransigent to changing it even in light of me presenting you with a number of good reasons why my play didn’t make sense from scum!me. Why? Because you knew it was a losing coalition and you weren’t prepared to entertain the idea of change as that could open it up to being not losing

Plus you’re the main source of the game apathy. I think that the way you spammed thread is effective as a scum strat, it’s just also very boring

what are you even talking about dude

if koba is scum it won't matter if you or clover are on the coalition

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

koba didnt insert klick into the lynchpool he wants to lynch wug to clear the off-coalition 3

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

look the way to play this game after coalition fail is very simple.

If you lynch someone on the coalition - they flip scum - the other scum could be anywhere.

If you lynch someone off the coalition - they flip scum - this clears the other 3 off-coalition players and you can focus on the coalition with 3 guaranteed town players ( tho 1 will probably get shot at night)

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

the only reason you would go for lynching on-coalition is if you're pretty damn sure there are 2 scum on coalition

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

also I guess this means my theory was probably correct and Klick/Votato slot is scum :/

@pooky

ok yea but he's not going for Klick right now - he's going for Wugs so you don't even know if that's a true-thought or not

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

We are never lynching off coalition until scum has flipped inside because we have CONFIRMED SCUM inside and there could be 2 inside, while it’s possible there are none outside

ok i'll think about that for a night

I really don't think we have more than 1 scum on coalition. everyone feels so clean to me except Clover - and even clover is at best null for me.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Who are you suggesting friend? i get the Wug scumread (to be fair I think we all do) but that doesn't solve our problem

if wug flips scum - we go into tommorrow with 7 alive, 2 confirmed townies(assuming mafia kill 1 of the 3 clears) so we have 3 lynches to find 1 scum out of 5.

I'm willing to say that Koba probably didn't sacrifice their scumbuddy Wug as a gambit - so let's say that clears Koba,

we are left with myself, sleeper, clover and klick. If you can clear Sleeper because the Sleeper/Tuxedo interaction earlier in D1 - then we are left with 3 lynches and 3 possible scum for the wagon - hence enough for our solve - assuming we were correct to clear sleeper/koba.

This all hinges on Wugs being scum.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

this game is wild,

when I'm convinced koba is scum nobody believes me, but now I'm convinced he's town and everyone thinks he's scum.

I must be really off or something.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Honestly I just can't see Koba as scum here.

and Wugs ISO reads as way more scummy - We really will hit a jackpot if we lynch Wugs and he's scum.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

cmon read wug iso and tell me that doesn't look like a scum

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Idgaf if wugs iso reads more scummy, they’re outside the coalition and we’re lynching inside

How do you know inside is the better play ? if we hit scum outside we get so much EV swing don't we?

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

ok but if we lynch koba and he flips scum - we still don't know where the 2nd scum is -

if we lynch wug and he flips scum - we have a clear path to winning the game?

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

wait you think I'm scum with Koba? lol

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

@all: we're lynching on coalition until we lynch scum. Everyone on-coalition has a 30% chance of being scum at base-level; everyone off-coalition has a 12.5% chance of being scum (and there might not be scum at all there).

Pooky what are your thoughts on this

I don't really get the math breakdown here - but even if we were to assume the math is right which it probably is, it kind of doesn't look at people's posting and behavior and breaks the game down to basically a random dice throw if we just play the numbers.


I agree with Koba's read of Wug - I think if we flip Wug as scum we can basically lock-win this game as town assuming Koba/Sleeper are town.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Given that you’re pushing practically the same angle rn idk why you think that would be an odd conclusion to come to?

we kinda fought pretty hard for like half of day 1 - you think that was just scum theater?

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

real talk

this game is gonna suck without koba

can we not kill them

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

like i'm 98% sure they're town at this point after the rage posts

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

fuck

waht a game i'm defending koba

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

let''s make the big ball play here guys

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

they replaced out of multiple games so it could just be some RL stuff

the candle that burns too bright doesn't last as long.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

aldus are u even playing the same game as us

DC is basically locktown at this point

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

ISO DC right before coalition locked

there's no reason scum fights that hard to get onto a failed coalition.

I actually think it's more likely scum do what you and wug do - which is just chill and not really care about being on or not because your partner is already on it.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

uh I wasn't chill you guys just suddenly pushed it through while I was offline, that's not the same thing

r u serious, you barely even participating in this game

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Not sure why you think DC is locktown but okay.

my initial read on DC was always that he was town cuz he felt really excited to solve this game and get a coalition through that would win the game.

Like you re-read his first 20 posts - it's all about how he's gotten pretty good at reading this game - he "solved" 2 of the previous games or whatever correctly and he's gonna solve this game and everyone just sheep him and he put together a winning coalition and if it fails then he gets lynched.

This all felt super genuine and I think he was super pumped and that's why I had him as locked in on my orig coalition - then he basically kinda faded out after Koba spammed their way into the game and took control and things got crazy.

So I understand his emotion trying to fight his way on near the end and then the violent reaction towards the coalition failing.

All of this feels super-townie to me and I just can't see him acting all this shit out if he's scum with a buddy already on coalition.

vote Clover

I think Clover's a good spot to start if we're lynching on coalition.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

uh I wasn't chill you guys just suddenly pushed it through while I was offline, that's not the same thing

votato Jun 23, 03:30pm Jun 25, 03:20pm 9 days 12 hours 75
Clover Ebi Jun 23, 05:13pm Jul 04, 12:47pm 0 days 15 hours 53
Alduskkel Jun 23, 09:59pm Jul 05, 02:57am 0 days 0 hours 51
Tuxedo Mask Jun 23, 04:46pm Jun 24, 11:28pm 10 days 4 hours 36
Wug Jun 25, 03:30pm Jul 03, 03:44pm 1 day 12 hours 28
Chemist1422 Jul 03, 05:04pm Jul 04, 05:38pm 0 days 10 hours 11
bugspray Jun 23, 01:21pm Jun 23, 08:59pm 11 days 6 hours 2


You got 25 less posts than votato who replaced out like 9 days ago
the only person with less posts than you are wug/chemist who are replacements who weren't here at game start. You've been literally just lurking through without a care in the world.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

unvote

let me think about this more and get back to you

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Look at the game climate at this point. I'm mildly advocating for Clover being in the coalition, some others have expressed very light townreads there but nothing too serious. Clover!scum's Master Play is to... remove himself from contention.

If clover was town - why would he remove himself from contention? the move doesn't really make sense from either POV

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

actually it might make sense if Clover is scum and his Scumbuddy is already firmly entrenched as a universal town-read - then it would make sense to spread the 2 scum players between on-off coalition just to decrease the chance of a lynch hitting scum after coalition fails

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

SS or Klick tho Koba did seem to be firmly in control when Clover did that move

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

between SS bussing and Klick defending I think it makes more sense for SS to be bussing to set up a smooth endgame

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

I said SS was town

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

between SS bussing and Klick defending I think it makes more sense for SS to be bussing to set up a smooth endgame

I don't disagree but I think it just makes more sense for Clover to be town?

sometimes scum play moves that don't make sense for exactly this reason

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Why am I getting the feeling that you really want Clover to be on the table as an option, more than you actually believe Clover is scum?

even if I didn't believe clover was scum I'd still be trying to break down your thought process to figure out whether this is a genuine conversation

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

I've been a clover skeptic since Koba pushed him onto the coalition over DC

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

I just think Pooky is probably the scum here, they didn't really put up a fuss with me going in and now suddenly I'm on the table.

are you serious?

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

we even talked about this before I put you in - the only reason I included you was because everyone else was set on you being in and we were running out of time in Day 1

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

. I don't know why pooky is so hesitant to accept that I was voting koba out of frustration. I wanna say that pings me as scummy,

Where did I say this? I think you have me confused with someone else here

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Also trying to say that scum would just do something for the sake of not making sense/bad scum play isn't really a good argument

it makes exactly as much sense as saying "X isn't scum because X did this thing that Scum wouldn't do if Scum were X"

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

If doing _____ causes you to become universally townread or gives you a lot of town-cred - then it doesn't make sense for you to say doing _______ means you're definitely not scum - that's kind of what scum want to do - become universally townread.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

I don't mind not being in the co it isn't a great concern to me on if it passes or fails because if I'm in it I have more time to just town tell. Although, that should mean you guys get into focus on who you do townread. It's probably way too risky to put me in the co since people don't seem to townread me and if it fails I'm on the chopping block. With that being said
HURT: all
Good luck!

While you're here Clover,

Is this above post an act or did you mean it?

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Of course I meant it.

ok so why did you end up putting yourself back in the coalition?

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

If you use this kind of logic that would put almost every townread and scumread into question.

the whole point of the game is to question everything - there aren't any absolute town or scum tells - everything happens in shades of grey

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Because we were getting close to deadline plus Klick said he could convince people not to vote me and since people don't think Klick is scum I'm very confused how people can think I am.

Even if I was 100% sure Klick is town - it doesn't mean I would 100% trust his opinion of your guilt/innocence one way or the other

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Would I pull that move as scum? No, never. But that's not really a defense. But I don't think you've even pointed out what makes me scummy to begin with.

I feel like you're not trying very hard - the general feel of your play so far this game has been very soft and go with the flowy like you don't want to be caught out doing something.

Even when you put your vote on me you didn't come after me particularly hard - if you really believed that I'm the scum in the coalition - then why did you not defend Koba when they got ran up to L-1 suddenly after coalition failure? Instead you seemed to be ok with your vote just sitting there on me doing nothing - I don't see why you would do that if you were convinced I should be lynched instead of Koba.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

because scum are the ones who don't care which townie gets lynched

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

no if you just sheeped klick you would've voted to lynch koba

you made an active decision to vote for me instead of voting for koba and also to not defend koba or try to push me very hard when koba was almost lynched.

Now the way I read that is you are scum who didn't want his vote to be on koba-town who was going to get lynched but you don't mind him being lynched because you don't really care which townie between Pooky and Koba gets lynched.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

you voted for me after klick voted for koba -

when you say you trusted other people's opinion - who exactly are you talking about? the only person voting for me other than you is Aldus.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

This is false logic because it doesn't take into account reading the room. In order to think Clover is scum, you have to assume Clover knew he would get townread for his behavior and decided it was the best play he could make. I don't think Clover plausibly sees the gamestate going in the direction it did - and if I specifically hadn't pushed for Clover to be townread, it would have had no effect. You're assuming Clover either placed his entire game on someone townreading him for this gambit enough to put him in the coalition, or he already had his buddy in the coalition (in which case he's not the lynch today anyway).

what exactly was the coalition when he made that play? Is it the same coalition that ended up getting passed?

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

So what was the coalition that would've passed before the gambit?

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

For your logic about him taking himself out of coalition contention being a genuine gambit with risk - there would have to be something close to a set coalition that was about to pass no?

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

You know sometimes people say they don't want something in order to get it right?

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

There is a certain degree of cunning in Clover that I find inconsistent with his good natured "aww shucks you guys should just leave me off" personality - his posts on the surface level read very happy and bright but if you take actual time to read and re-read his ISO you find that there is some cunning inside each move he makes.

I know because I've re-read him multiple times since Koba asked me to put him on coalition and so many things feel off about his slot.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

For example if you pull up his ISO and search my name you get all sorts of doubt/lynchy thoughts:

Atm I don't really have any stong scumreads but Pooky has been talked about so much I want to lynch him if we don't auto win. That's decent logic right?

But yeah I think (DC, pooky, deimos, votato, clover) is prob winning here

You think Pooky came off good in the DK vs Pooky fight? I'd like to talk to you on that

I assume your coalition is your townreads. Do you have an idea of who you think scum is?

I haven't been really looking for scum so I can't really say I have anyone listed as scum but I would probably lynch Alduskkel for not having many reasons to townread them and Pooky for information.

I think Pooky/Don are the slots I need to reread and really look at first.

Why is Pooky town for you guys? I've read the iso and nothing has really struck me as super towny

Dude wants to lynch me but puts me on coalition anyway - feels like a setup for when coalition fails

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

I think maybe I phrased happy and bright incorrectly -

Most of his posts feel like short one liners and his entire approach to getting on the coalition seems to be negative manipulation along the lines of "aww you guys can just leave me off, I'm not posting that much anyway"

But joining coalition is an active decision - he can always choose to keep himself off it if that's what he genuinely believes is best for his role - which I don't think is actually his plan since he just walks back onto the coalition anyway.