Newbie 2016: Snapdragons (Game Over)

[TheThirteenthJT]

VOTE: Blopp

For having the word Townie as a title as fake town.

[TheThirteenthJT]

I know the struggle. I do most of my play on phone. PC posting is reserved for multiquote posts.

[TheThirteenthJT]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: clarkbar

Let's start two wagons then.

[TheThirteenthJT]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: clarkbar

Let's start two wagons then.

[TheThirteenthJT]

Only counts if you vote for me in a triple-post, not a double-post.

Didnt want to put you at x-1 (execute will be my term) too soon. My three voted and the previous one could have accidently had you hammered this early.

[TheThirteenthJT]

Hmm. Well this is only my second game, and my first one was out of RVS and humming along pretty quickly. So... not sure if there are any other good strategies to break the ice a little.

I'm so glad you asked!
There is a fantastic scumhunting tool called RQS (that's Random Question Stage to the uninitiated).
I do not proclaim to have devised this foolproof tool.

1. What is your experience in mafia outside of mafiascum?
2. Do you prefer playing as town or scum?
3. What do you think of lynching lurkers?
4. What do you think of lynching liars?

1. Extensive play close to 10 yrs ago. Third game here.
2. Mafia.
3. You know my answer here. Not really but might be changing my opinion on this. Depends on circumstances.
4. A bit of weird question. Context is important.


Now let me add two more.

1. Are you a straightforward player or like to do a lot of private analysis?
2. How upset would you be if you are lynched Day 1 from a scale of 1-10? 10 being highly upset.

[TheThirteenthJT]

JamSV is surely scum, I would bet the game on it.

My vote stays on you. It's almost as if you "know" this is true. Someone else join the Clark wagon.

[TheThirteenthJT]

UNVOTE:
I don't want a quick hammer. L-2 is plenty for pressure. Scumlean on Lucky for not removing his vote. Could be hoping for that quickhammer

Is he your only scumlean or do you have more?

[TheThirteenthJT]

Lucky and blopp. Maybe Clark but I'm unsure

Where's your vote then?

[TheThirteenthJT]

Also can you all look back at my two questions (rqs) I asked. I really want to know the answer for the first one.

[TheThirteenthJT]

I will be rereading from my last post and replying to anything as I go. These past few days I've been busy and reading what I could but without enough time to really reply to anything.

[TheThirteenthJT]

It depends heavily on context. I'm onsite often playing in multiple games. Sometimes I post in all of them actively. Sometimes I'm focused on one game because it's in a critical state. Sometimes I'm just taking a step back from a particular game to let the thread breathe and see what directions other players are looking to take the game in.

I think dipping the moment a non-RVS wagon starts up on you, despite posting after the wagon started (in other words, knowing that the wagon is there), is sketchy. I'm also confused as to how people don't read the deletion of her profile pic as conceding. She deliberately logged on to delete her profile pic. Not to post, not to lurk, but to

delete

her pic. She didn't replace it, she

deleted

it and left again. That seems to be as close as you can get to closing your account on this site. Does newbie town effectively delete their account when called scum?

I want to start with LuckyLuciamo first. While it does look like a site flake, I don't know if is scum indicative. It's defienatly weird and I understand your push for it. Unfortunately we may never know the rtrue reason behind it. In newbie 2009 both of our scum slots flaked out early day so that is my only confirmed point of reference so far. I would be ok lynching here.

Now a few things else, I feel like I understand your game style quite closely with the col and mafia night one actions towards you. That was what actually started pushing me away from playing mafia when I quit. But my question to you is why would openly admit this so early game? Aren't you afraid of this putting a target on your back?

And before you ask me why I would admit this as part of my past as well, I've had a long break and I'm extremely rusty and nowhere as strong as a player as used to be.

Now as to ending the day early, it truly depends on how strong of a day phase it is. A weaker day phase would be ok to end early vs one where we get surges of vocal players. I know I haven't been doing my part so far in the game.

[TheThirteenthJT]

I do find activity on this site by a player which does not occur in the thread(s) in which they are playing to be scum-indicative. In other words, if you're here doing stuff (on Mafiascum) but not posting in the game you're in I find that suspicious. I hate to keep referencing my last game, but it's my only frame of reference. In my last game there was a player whose activity/behavior outside of our game thread was distinctly different than it was inside it. I voted for that player, the wagon got to L-1, and then the player was replaced. That slot ended up being scum.

In my own last game a player was wagoned for being active on their alt while ignoring the game itself. They were town.

Like the absence of evidence as evidence tell, I dislike this activity tell as the sole basis of a scumread unless in complement with other more concrete scumtells. Maybe I'm biased, though, as someone who prefers spectating games over playing in them myself.

While I somewhat agree with you, sometimes eliminating these slots is a good way of POE. Poe is my last choice as the day comes to and end I don't feel 100% confident in mine or others scumreads.

[TheThirteenthJT]

Lucky and blopp. Maybe Clark but I'm unsure

Where's your vote then?

My vote is "on" Blopp I just don't want him at L-1

Perhaps it is a coincidence, but since being wagoned, Blopp has removed their profile pic. That means they have been onsite and decided not to post. So now we have her ignoring the initial wagon that I started with 72o, despite posting after it began and ignoring my case. In addition, we have her logging on to remove her profile pic and still not posting. Feels a lot like giving up to me.

This is a bad case and very reachy.

Also can you all look back at my two questions (rqs) I asked. I really want to know the answer for the first one.

I'll do this in my next post.

UNVOTE:
I don't want a quick hammer. L-2 is plenty for pressure. Scumlean on Lucky for not removing his vote. Could be hoping for that quickhammer

Is he your only scumlean or do you have more?

Lucky and blopp. Maybe Clark but I'm unsure

"I scumlean Lucky for possibly wanting a quick hammer on my other scumlean."

For the record, I'm expecting Blopp not to post again until the slot is replaced, and if the slot claims VT I will be pushing for the slot to be eliminated.

Just because I scumlean him doesnt mean I'm right (I never take associations into account D1. I often have multiple scumread that don't work together). And its perfectly viable to be concerned about someone not removing their vote at L-1 when Blopp hasn't even talked yet.

Actually since I can't vote Blopp right now VOTE: Lucky. I think this is more likely anyway. Your stats case also was reachy and the whole basis of your scumread isn't concrete. I would accept your case if and only if it was supporting evidence of a much stronger and more viable case.

Isn't most Day 1 early cases reachy? I really hate this argument
Also I see you join The Luciano wagon after I printed you to vote and someone else joined before you. I don't like this. I could argue myself that your case on him is reachy but again my case is reachy here no? Finally your case is more repreat what was already aid to give you a reason to join the wagon. While not Al we always scum indicative it's a good start.

Once I catch up my read here I will chiose where my vote goes but you are definitely setting off alarms.

[TheThirteenthJT]

It is all well and good to try to be the cool 500IQ anime protagonist, Detective Conan level scumhunter. However, what is much cooler, much more respectable, would be to actually help town. A mysterious, secretive, low impact town member might aswell not be town but have an entirely neutral role.

I feel called out. Remembering back at some of my best games this is exactly how I picture myself lol.

[TheThirteenthJT]

UNVOTE:
I don't want a quick hammer. L-2 is plenty for pressure. Scumlean on Lucky for not removing his vote. Could be hoping for that quickhammer

Is he your only scumlean or do you have more?

It's page 3. What are you expecting?

Valid point but obviously he had multiple leans. Do you feel they were forced 72? Like he felt pressured to answer so he did?

[TheThirteenthJT]

@JamSV, why did you put Blopp at L-1 and proceed to tell players to feel free to hammer and state that you see quickhammers as NAI?

A quickhammer can be seen as NAI as it could just be a really bad misunderstanding leading to a bad play. Which is why I believe a quickhammer without an explanation is scum indicative, but one with (on its own) is NAI.

I put him on L-1 to see how he would react. Nobody would express intent to hammer so my proceeding post was to in force that a extra bit of pressure. I have faith nobody would come in and swoop to quick hammer, considering we had all already posted (excluding Echovision), and we could all easily see how close he is to getting hammered. I will admit, I really didn't expect him to "leave" if we can class that as what he is doing. Plus that type of play is good for moving more out of the RVS, and it can apply simple pressure to see just how easily somebody would actually fold.

- If you were wondering if I have a bit too much faith in people, I probably do.

Quick hammers are a difficult subject to assess. In my first game I delivered a naked quickhammer as town. I was a town mason and we had our reasons for it. In the end all quickhammers have reasons even if not explained and do follow an agenda so they are touchy subjects for me. No we maybe a quickhammers earlier in the day umpromted may be a case for scum but have not encountered that situation yet. Most come towards the end of the day phase.

Now I do find it interesting you placed Blopp at e-1 and didn't really get called out much for it. Instead Raya unvoted and Luciano got scumleaned for not doing do as well. I don't believe you had I'll intentions and neither did Luciano. Raya comes away again as most suspicious and a bit LAMIST for his unvote.

At the end we have to evaluate if we really thought it was possible a quickhammers would have happened so early in the day? I don't personally think so and I think it was unwarranted paranoid, possibly feighned.

[TheThirteenthJT]

Damn coming in with theme music is badass

[TheThirteenthJT]

Why did you come back?

Is this in reference to me having retired from mafia? Mid mid life crisis lol? I don't know I really missed the chaos that can come from this game. I also wanted to work on my reading people skills again. I actually feel like I learned a lot from this game in the past and have stronger social skills because of it. And it's fun even though I have less time to play than I used to.

[TheThirteenthJT]

Lucky and blopp. Maybe Clark but I'm unsure

Where's your vote then?

My vote is "on" Blopp I just don't want him at L-1

Perhaps it is a coincidence, but since being wagoned, Blopp has removed their profile pic. That means they have been onsite and decided not to post. So now we have her ignoring the initial wagon that I started with 72o, despite posting after it began and ignoring my case. In addition, we have her logging on to remove her profile pic and still not posting. Feels a lot like giving up to me.

This is a bad case and very reachy.

Also can you all look back at my two questions (rqs) I asked. I really want to know the answer for the first one.

I'll do this in my next post.

UNVOTE:
I don't want a quick hammer. L-2 is plenty for pressure. Scumlean on Lucky for not removing his vote. Could be hoping for that quickhammer

Is he your only scumlean or do you have more?

Lucky and blopp. Maybe Clark but I'm unsure

"I scumlean Lucky for possibly wanting a quick hammer on my other scumlean."

For the record, I'm expecting Blopp not to post again until the slot is replaced, and if the slot claims VT I will be pushing for the slot to be eliminated.

Just because I scumlean him doesnt mean I'm right (I never take associations into account D1. I often have multiple scumread that don't work together). And its perfectly viable to be concerned about someone not removing their vote at L-1 when Blopp hasn't even talked yet.

Actually since I can't vote Blopp right now VOTE: Lucky. I think this is more likely anyway. Your stats case also was reachy and the whole basis of your scumread isn't concrete. I would accept your case if and only if it was supporting evidence of a much stronger and more viable case.

Isn't most Day 1 early cases reachy? I really hate this argument
Also I see you join The Luciano wagon after I printed you to vote and someone else joined before you. I don't like this. I could argue myself that your case on him is reachy but again my case is reachy here no? Finally your case is more repreat what was already aid to give you a reason to join the wagon. While not Al we always scum indicative it's a good start.

Once I catch up my read here I will chiose where my vote goes but you are definitely setting off alarms.

Most cases D1 are reachy but Lucky's case on Blopp is beyond reachy. I mean look at the case I just posted and tell me how that's a good case. And another concern is usually reachy D1 cases are used to create more discussion (mainly from the player being cased) so we can later get better reads and make better cases. But in this case Blopp isn't here to talk and Lucky keeps pushing her. Lucky isn't playing to get more info. Lucky is playing to get a lynch.

I will respond to your readlist post next. I NEED to respond to this first. Is case on Blopp was from what 2 pages worth of posts? Wouldn't that have to be reachy? Do I agree it's a good case? Weird yes but not really screaming confirmed scum for me and thus my vote is not on Blopp. For an elimation to be made 5 players have to agree it's a good enough case to do so. If an elimation were to occur based on that it would be so telling for the rest of the game. Making a case on a player might not get info on the player ryou are pushing but can give Intel on other players in the wagon. Why did they join the wagon? Did they explain themselves well. If it was bad reasoning, what purpose did they have joining that wagon? Miselimnatiin or bad play? So much can be told by these situations.

Overall it has provided discussion to a slow early game and thus has actually been a very beneficial wagon.

[TheThirteenthJT]

UNVOTE:
I don't want a quick hammer. L-2 is plenty for pressure. Scumlean on Lucky for not removing his vote. Could be hoping for that quickhammer

Is he your only scumlean or do you have more?

It's page 3. What are you expecting?

Valid point but obviously he had multiple leans. Do you feel they were forced 72? Like he felt pressured to answer so he did?

Yes. Names 2 and a half scumleans in 69 feels like a blurted out response.

By 181 Raya has 4 townleans/reads, which feels like way too many from a town PoV at this stage of the game.

The Homura townread is the sort of read I make as scum on my scumbuddy. "Similar thoughts to myself" --> its the sort of statement, which you cant really test the veracity of.

Dumps me in as a null, still doesnt explain how my actions further scum agenda, or why someone of a scum mindset makes aforementioned plays.
If genuinely believes that my RQS is active lurking filler, then why am I not a scumread?

If I was to take a stab at the game solve, I would say Raya + Homura purely off that reads list.

Wow same scum team that was forming on my readlist in my notes

[TheThirteenthJT]

TheThirteenthJT - Slight townlean. 58 are you suggesting Jam and Clark are partners? What is your read on Clark? I believe your vote is still there.

Yes partially. I was also suggesting that scum are the only ones that truly know everyone's alignment. So Clark is an interesting read for me and would like to expand on this later. He actually failed a test earlier and it looks bad for him but his play has indicated town for me. I will be keeping a good look at him throughout the game but it's currently Not enough for me to keep my vote on him currently.

So after my reread my vote will most comfortably be here


UNVOTE: clark
VOTE: raya36

[TheThirteenthJT]

I went back to analyze the Blopp flake and it's so bizarre. I can see newbie players leaving for a bit and returning to see 4 votes on then as a bit overwhelming but I felt the pressure up to the point they removed their avatar was not that high. I've seen (and done so myself) people drilled early game as newbies which would cause enough frustration for a rage quit. This early wagon was rather tame. But at the same time why return at all to remove your avatar? Clearly no intention of returning and thus rage quit possibility over just not returning/forgetting about the site.

So here's the final scenario I have in my head. Blopp comes back because they remember they are in a mafia game, see 4 votes on them, says screw this, removes avatar and leaves forever.

[TheThirteenthJT]

I went back to analyze the Blopp flake and it's so bizarre. I can see newbie players leaving for a bit and returning to see 4 votes on then as a bit overwhelming but I felt the pressure up to the point they removed their avatar was not that high. I've seen (and done so myself) people drilled early game as newbies which would cause enough frustration for a rage quit. This early wagon was rather tame. But at the same time why return at all to remove your avatar? Clearly no intention of returning and thus rage quit possibility over just not returning/forgetting about the site.

So here's the final scenario I have in my head. Blopp comes back because they remember they are in a mafia game, see 4 votes on them, says screw this, removes avatar and leaves forever.

[TheThirteenthJT]

The avatar removal just feels like an account deactivation. Seems like she decided forum mafia wasnt her cup of tea.
Question is, what it due to !scumher having to explain her way out of a hole, or just disliking the game overall.

See this is why I think we should wait for a replacement for her overall, I think we should give the replacement the benefit of doubt for a while after they replace in, give them a few posts to understand their town, and the intonations and such of that new player will help us work out which one it was.

In the mean time I suggest looking at the interactions around this. Raya and Homura and have struck out the most for me.

Also hypothetical question. If someone comes into the game and says they are scum and leaves. Does it matter what the replacement says? Do we give them the benefit of the doubt. I know you don't think the flake is scum indicative, I am starting to feel it's to closest thing possible a scum tell. At this point when the replacement comes in and catches up, gives us summaries of what they think, I would suggest putting them on L-1 with intent.

[TheThirteenthJT]

Edit: Fllake isn't scum indicative

[TheThirteenthJT]

Edit: disregard last edit. Lol

[TheThirteenthJT]

The avatar removal just feels like an account deactivation. Seems like she decided forum mafia wasnt her cup of tea.
Question is, what it due to !scumher having to explain her way out of a hole, or just disliking the game overall.

See this is why I think we should wait for a replacement for her overall, I think we should give the replacement the benefit of doubt for a while after they replace in, give them a few posts to understand their town, and the intonations and such of that new player will help us work out which one it was.

In the mean time I suggest looking at the interactions around this. Raya and Homura and have struck out the most for me.

Also hypothetical question. If someone comes into the game and says they are scum and leaves. Does it matter what the replacement says? Do we give them the benefit of the doubt. I know you don't think the flake is scum indicative, I am starting to feel it's to closest thing possible a scum tell. At this point when the replacement comes in and catches up, gives us summaries of what they think, I would suggest putting them on L-1 with intent.

I wouldn't think it was scum indicative, I'd just think its a troll trying to ruin a game, which could be done from town too really, showing up claiming Scum Doctor or something then leaving to cause a mislynch. I wasn't saying to dismiss what blopp did entirely, but just for the moment so we can get a read on the new player's intonations and such.
Also - I may be misunderstanding the last paragraph, but did you mean me not thinking its scum indicative makes me a scum tell?

No sorry, would have possibly been better for me to have seperated the paragraph after those two lines. Just stating where you are at vs where I am

[TheThirteenthJT]

I do have a question for you James since I have you here. Wouldn't you be holding off on voting Luciano as well until Blopps replacement is in? Your vote on them currently is on the assumption that they are going for a misvote but wouldn't that only be possible if we knew Blopp was 100 percent town? I could ask the same I guess to the other two. At this point I feel one of the scum is on that wagon and so far I find you James the most townlike.

[TheThirteenthJT]

I do have a question for you James since I have you here. Wouldn't you be holding off on voting Luciano as well until Blopps replacement is in? Your vote on them currently is on the assumption that they are going for a misvote but wouldn't that only be possible if we knew Blopp was 100 percent town? I could ask the same I guess to the other two. At this point I feel one of the scum is on that wagon and so far I find you James the most townlike.

For one I, good guess with my name, you're correct. I'm not going to move my vote regardless of what happens until the replacement happens, just out of courtesy for the replacement. You're kind of correct, however I think Lucky would go for a lynch on Blopp regardless, if he was scum Blopp would be town, that I am certain about, but not necessarily the other way around. I don't necessarily think that he guns for a misvote either, I think Lucky doesn't mind killing off town Day 1, and that if he hits a scum by accident its just an added benefit. I don't like it as a play style, nor do I think its a good way to play, I don't think willingness to end a day early is pro town in any way either. Long story short, if my vote were to move, it'll be after the replacement, or we'd need a big twist / event to occur.

Ok the reason why I am asking is because I don't think we should be sitting tight until the replacement. I find that antItown. It could be a day or two or just an hour for them to come in and in the meantime our clock is ticking. I feel that until they come in then to explore other options in tHe meantime. It'll also help this game from feeling stale.

Also kept reading your name as Jamesv

[TheThirteenthJT]

It depends heavily on context. I'm onsite often playing in multiple games. Sometimes I post in all of them actively. Sometimes I'm focused on one game because it's in a critical state. Sometimes I'm just taking a step back from a particular game to let the thread breathe and see what directions other players are looking to take the game in.

I think dipping the moment a non-RVS wagon starts up on you, despite posting after the wagon started (in other words, knowing that the wagon is there), is sketchy. I'm also confused as to how people don't read the deletion of her profile pic as conceding. She deliberately logged on to delete her profile pic. Not to post, not to lurk, but to

delete

her pic. She didn't replace it, she

deleted

it and left again. That seems to be as close as you can get to closing your account on this site. Does newbie town effectively delete their account when called scum?

I want to start with LuckyLuciamo first. While it does look like a site flake, I don't know if is scum indicative. It's defienatly weird and I understand your push for it. Unfortunately we may never know the rtrue reason behind it. In newbie 2009 both of our scum slots flaked out early day so that is my only confirmed point of reference so far. I would be ok lynching here.

Now a few things else, I feel like I understand your game style quite closely with the col and mafia night one actions towards you. That was what actually started pushing me away from playing mafia when I quit. But my question to you is why would openly admit this so early game? Aren't you afraid of this putting a target on your back?

And before you ask me why I would admit this as part of my past as well, I've had a long break and I'm extremely rusty and nowhere as strong as a player as used to be.

Now as to ending the day early, it truly depends on how strong of a day phase it is. A weaker day phase would be ok to end early vs one where we get surges of vocal players. I know I haven't been doing my part so far in the game.

Like, if you are mason with 72, just say so. If you are that would make sense. But it's not really my fault I caught 72 lying about your meta and thought he was Scum for it.

Anyways, if you ARE masons with 72, which I would say is about 50/50 at this point, then I would look at Raya36 for the blatant buddy attempt as well as Thirteen for them affirming LL's meta and budying me. I DON'T think Blopp flaking is actually AI.

I don't understand your case. Is by affirming LUcianos meta based on the above? Also buddying you? I don't even know if we've interacted much yet if at all.

Also I've been off Blopp/Luciano wagon because I've explained it to Jamsv. I follow my own reads and push them over trying to expand someone else's case. It's just the way I play because I want content from all players to not give the possibility for anyone to go under the radar.

[TheThirteenthJT]

I have a Scum tell (for me) specific to me and you went for it. I haven't tested it too much but all the times I have noticed, Scum has done it.

Also, not really sure what you are defending against in the above posts. My read on you is not in association with LL.

Huh? You clearly are???

I'm on lunch btw so I'll look at it again after work. But I'm really confused.

[TheThirteenthJT]

I have a scum tell as well and you just went for it.

[TheThirteenthJT]

[TheThirteenthJT]

TheThirteenthJT - are you town too? who is scum here?

If not you than it's Clark and/or Raya. For Clark look at rqs and you will see why, for Raya I have a case. Homura would be most likely partner for Raya. Quick summary of my cases. Not home yet.

[TheThirteenthJT]

I'm not masons with 72o. I am not giving any more info about my role claim just to help mafia solve the setup. My slots self-resolves at this point. Either it becomes blatantly obvious I'm lying as the game goes on, or I'm telling the truth.

If you are not dead D2 and there was a kill N1, you know where I will be voting. I would hope the rest of Town would be able to see this logic as well. In short, you don't make it to D3.

Are you actively looking to out masons this game? Or power role hunting?

Also your music share with Raya seems very suspicious now. It's almost as if you could have had the conversation in a scum player thread but purposefully choose to do it on this thread as a weird distancing attempt.

[TheThirteenthJT]

Hi BM!

Again I want to say how sorry I am for letting myself almost get replaced. I was whiny in the beginning of the game about the slow place, and so of course it would be me to then contribute to the problem. I work on weekends, and with the holiday and some other life stuff I got completely wrecked. I do virtually nothing during the week, so my posting will be a lot more consistent.

I'll say this regarding much of what I've read in the last few pages: I am not going to go read a past game to see how players behaved in it. I have said (and still believe) that behavior/activity levels being different in one game to another is something I think is noteworthy and could be AI. So I'm not dismissing that as a reasonable motive to vote for somebody. But, unless something very clear is brought to my attention then I don't think I'm going to hop on a wagon because of meta.

I don't have a problem with LL's reasoning for voting Blopp even if it is kind of a reach. I can follow the reasoning and don't necessarily disagree. I do fear quick hammers, but that fear shouldn't stop a player from having some L-1 pressure. I also buy LL's claim for now. I feel uncomfortable giving town-reads, but LL is a town lean for me.

My vote on Homura stands and I guess we'll see if there is a replacement or if Homura returns. Obviously I can't point any fingers regarding activity levels, but it's the lack of trying to engage other players in a meaningful way that bothers me. Half-heartedly sharing opinions and having only one vote that was in the RVS and not even a random reason given bugs me.

I'll keep looking at stuff and see if I can't get some questions goings. I'm also happy to answer any questions, in fact that might help me in figuring out my own feelings on some things.

So you believe LLs claim but he is only a town lean?

And I agree on your Homura point but it's not strong enough for it to be my leading case. Could you ISo Raya and let me know how you feel about them.

This is a for fun question and part of my experimental ways of playing.(I know we are out of rqs and wifom and not aftual scumhunting blah blah blah. Just let me be me.) If you were town who is your scum team at this point, and if you were mafia who would your partner be? Please answer both sides and just have fun with the answers. I don't have any day to back anything up but I have theories so this will help me improve as a player. Anyone else is free to answer this as well.

[TheThirteenthJT]

I went back to analyze the Blopp flake and it's so bizarre. I can see newbie players leaving for a bit and returning to see 4 votes on then as a bit overwhelming but I felt the pressure up to the point they removed their avatar was not that high. I've seen (and done so myself) people drilled early game as newbies which would cause enough frustration for a rage quit. This early wagon was rather tame. But at the same time why return at all to remove your avatar? Clearly no intention of returning and thus rage quit possibility over just not returning/forgetting about the site.

So here's the final scenario I have in my head. Blopp comes back because they remember they are in a mafia game, see 4 votes on them, says screw this, removes avatar and leaves forever.

Ok but this same reaction can come from town too.. It's not scum indicative.. It's NAI

And thus why I didn't join the Blopp wagon. I was giving the benefit of the doubt but at the same time understanding why someone would push it. I felt I had bigger fish to fry over the Blopp and Luciano case and had said I wouldn't really weigh in and focus elsewhere until a replacement came in.

Similarly now that BM has replaced in I want to see were Luciano goes from there.

[TheThirteenthJT]

TheThirteenthJT - Slight townlean. 58 are you suggesting Jam and Clark are partners? What is your read on Clark? I believe your vote is still there.

Yes partially. I was also suggesting that scum are the only ones that truly know everyone's alignment. So Clark is an interesting read for me and would like to expand on this later. He actually failed a test earlier and it looks bad for him but his play has indicated town for me. I will be keeping a good look at him throughout the game but it's currently Not enough for me to keep my vote on him currently.

Are you referring to my joke towards Jam that was a reference to our last game? What other test did I fail? I'm usually keenly aware when I'm failing, but not always. You mention an RQS issue but have been rather cryptic on what that might be...

I guess I'm curious about all this because you haven't really pressed me on any of this or tried to discuss it with me.

Yeah someone had asked me a question which was the first paragraph. Had an issue on mobile only quoting that paragraph. So it was in response to that. I understand now that it was a joke.

And just I understand I'm a bit cryptic with you at the moment. Some players might understand but I don't want to go too much into detail for it as the way a player plays goes hand in hand with the scumtell. Currently 1/2 of the two factors applies to you.

And yes have not questioned you much because my eyes were turned sharply. But i did get to your last statement in the post above yours now that you are back.

[TheThirteenthJT]

So you believe LLs claim but he is only a town lean?

He's a town lean based off his posting. Because of that I'm inclined to believe his claim.

And I agree on your Homura point but it's not strong enough for it to be my leading case. Could you ISo Raya and let me know how you feel about them.

Yes, I will.

This is a for fun question and part of my experimental ways of playing.(I know we are out of rqs and wifom and not aftual scumhunting blah blah blah. Just let me be me.) If you were town who is your scum team at this point, and if you were mafia who would your partner be? Please answer both sides and just have fun with the answers. I don't have any day to back anything up but I have theories so this will help me improve as a player. Anyone else is free to answer this as well.

My fun response to your fun question would be 72 and Homura as scumteam, and my scum partner would be you.

Nice why me?

[TheThirteenthJT]

Nice why me?

Because I think that'd be hilarious fun. Also, you'd be doing a nice job of being suspicious of me without actually pressuring me.

Im such a boring partner though. Really thought you'd says Jamsv here. You were so excited he came into the game.

Oh boy this is going to get us elimnated here... Im not doing it on purpose just had nothing to pressure you on with you not being around this past weekend. You came on and I made sure to get on you.

Soon enough someone will either meta me or figure out why you failed the test. But not you since you don't meta people correct?

[TheThirteenthJT]

Players who push the game forward and generate AI content don't die D1.

Spoiler: Nothing like a good old fashioned meme for this occasion

Is my point getting across? Is LL Town because of their claim? Honest question.

I have a TPR. Let's move on.

Why should I believe you wouldn't say this as Scum?

For me more like not scum because I'm seeing red flags elsewhere. I don't townread people much. At least I don't try to day 1. For now I'm not risking elimanting a town when I have preferred targets. I think it's a waste of time to pursue it when we could be focusing our resources on the remaining player pool. Also making scenarios like if this happens then this must be why are bad before they happen. Aka if LL survives day 1 and has nothing meaningful for us then he must be scum. I would have been ok Day 2 for this but now I wouldn't be comfortable voting them unless special circumstances were to occur. So I think personally it put us in a bad spot.

[TheThirteenthJT]

focusing our resources... special circumstances were to occur...

You make zero sense in how you type things. Is this like a gimmick or something or just trying to hide your main?

Private bit but I'm an author on the side lol. Sorry it's the way I type not really a gimmick. And I know I do a lot of typos. If I edited my stuff I would never have time to post

[TheThirteenthJT]

LL is also a lot less wordy as Town. I am assuming this pattern holds based on how I would assume LL would play as Scum given prior experience playing with them. This is not strictly a "meta read" but rather a personality trait narrative read. There's a diff but I don't really feel like explaining rn.

But how is LL with power role? I will have to meta them myself when I get a chance. Can't take your word for everything either

[TheThirteenthJT]

I still think things like that should be great for private analysis and really only scum would want to know what prs are and who they are.

[TheThirteenthJT]

I went back to analyze the Blopp flake and it's so bizarre. I can see newbie players leaving for a bit and returning to see 4 votes on then as a bit overwhelming but I felt the pressure up to the point they removed their avatar was not that high. I've seen (and done so myself) people drilled early game as newbies which would cause enough frustration for a rage quit. This early wagon was rather tame. But at the same time why return at all to remove your avatar? Clearly no intention of returning and thus rage quit possibility over just not returning/forgetting about the site.

So here's the final scenario I have in my head. Blopp comes back because they remember they are in a mafia game, see 4 votes on them, says screw this, removes avatar and leaves forever.

Ok but this same reaction can come from town too.. It's not scum indicative.. It's NAI

And thus why I didn't join the Blopp wagon. I was giving the benefit of the doubt but at the same time understanding why someone would push it. I felt I had bigger fish to fry over the Blopp and Luciano case and had said I wouldn't really weigh in and focus elsewhere until a replacement came in.

Similarly now that BM has replaced in I want to see were Luciano goes from there.

This is good and town thinking. Scum would likely choose a side I think even just lightly.

Another scummy post from Raya.

Why is BM's post "good and town thinking"?

Scum 101 tactic is to hedge bets, fence-sit and to simply wait and see where the chips fall, to see what vote is most advatageous for scumagenda, before making their play with more information available. Just like sitting on the button in poker - Last player to act has more information to make their move.

I think you either confused the player this was directed at or I confused my read of it.

[TheThirteenthJT]

It's okay JamSV, I'm writing a wall post and then I'm going to suggest you eliminate my slot so you can get your head out of your ass and play the game.

Why get nasty? Especially in newbie games were it can discourage players from playing again if they aren't having fun. I get it's not fun being targeted but I hate these style arguments. The only reasonable conclusion I will come up with is people who ok get nasty with others are either uncooperative town or scum playing to their agenda.

Like I understand a joke or jab or two and who knows maybe you two are comfortable with each either to speak like that but I personally am getting tired of it.

[TheThirteenthJT]

I may start policy eliminating players like this from now on. It will at least make the game feel more fun for me. At this point im going against my better judgement and would like you too claim exact role LL.

[TheThirteenthJT]

Hmm what to do with this slot. I don't want to wait for replacement of we aren't going to give them a fair chance. Personally for me I'd say to almost disregard LL plays for whomever replaces in but I know that's not really possible. I want everyone in this wagon to give their opinions on what just happened.

[TheThirteenthJT]

Independent Reads (not based on possible pairings)

Towniest town

TheThirteenthJT

Townclub on probation

ClarkBar

Switzerland

Looker
LicketyQuickety
JamSV

Scummy nominee

72offsuit

Surefire scum

Raya36
LuckyLuciano

Your going to get me elimnated here! Lol.

I'm excited to be playing with you again as well.

Unrelated to this game but Hamilton is good and I looked down on my phone and missed some good stuff lol. I'll see you all tomorrow.

[TheThirteenthJT]

So I'm caught up reading. Clark case coming up. At this point it's a toss up for me between clark, Raya and Porkens.

Raya I've stated my early reasons and recent game hasn't been helping for me. Ill go in more detail soon

Clarkbarr has really flagged me recently. Full case coming soon as well so don't end the day.

And Porkens unfortunately for them, would tells us so much about the game.

I want quicks stance asap on Porkens. No hammer without a final claim Or I policy tomorrow.

[TheThirteenthJT]

Thirteenth, what would my hanging tell us about the game?

I've been looking at vote counts throughout the game. Jamsv has been the most firm on the LL wagon. Hasn't waivered from their stance. Raya agrees with LL early game on Blopp and then distanced by voting LL as the wagon started turning. Lickety was also pushing hard on LL and dropped a bit after the pr claim. Even with LL backtracking and dropping they have not returned to that wagon. Waiting on them now to further analyze. Meanwhile counterwagon was 72 who agreed with LL. An LL flip would be the strongest indicator of 72 this game. I am almost certain if LL is town than 72 is scum here. Does not work vice versa. Clark on your wagon just now felt extremely oppurtunistic, again more detail coming.

There's so much to learn from your flip.

And I don't want to give 100% away the tell (you can however meta me to find it.) But it's related to one of my (borrowed) rqs question and Clark gave a result with 100% scum rate. Obviously tools like that are just tools so Ive been trying to watch their game independently from it. If they flip scum that tool will be great for future games and if not Clark becomes the exception.

[TheThirteenthJT]

LicketyQuickety - Null, need to

hear more

.

Hear away:

Hm not bad. This earns a townlean

Spoiler: I will fail you

Hints at being scum. Scum points. Raya gives this townpoints. Scum points for her too.

LQ's play early in the game - high posting, entertaining but not really saying anything, reads scummy. Not sure what partner would fit though? Raya/Lucky might suggest he's trying to distract from the existing pressure. Anyone else might suggest he's just happily lurking in plain sight.

The avatar removal just feels like an account deactivation. Seems like she decided forum mafia wasnt her cup of tea.
Question is, what it due to !scumher having to explain her way out of a hole, or just disliking the game overall.

See this is why I think we should wait for a replacement for her overall, I think we should give the replacement the benefit of doubt for a while after they replace in, give them a few posts to understand their town, and the intonations and such of that new player will help us work out which one it was.

Ah, thanks man. I love you too! <3

The avatar removal just feels like an account deactivation. Seems like she decided forum mafia wasnt her cup of tea.
Question is, what it due to !scumher having to explain her way out of a hole, or just disliking the game overall.

Spoiler: She disliked you overall

The avatar removal just feels like an account deactivation. Seems like she decided forum mafia wasnt her cup of tea.
Question is, what it due to !scumher having to explain her way out of a hole, or just disliking the game overall.

See this is why I think we should wait for a replacement for her overall, I think we should give the replacement the benefit of doubt for a while after they replace in, give them a few posts to understand their town, and the intonations and such of that new player will help us work out which one it was.

In the mean time I suggest looking at the interactions around this. Raya and Homura and have struck out the most for me.

Also hypothetical question. If someone comes into the game and says they are scum and leaves. Does it matter what the replacement says? Do we give them the benefit of the doubt. I know you don't think the flake is scum indicative, I am starting to feel it's to closest thing possible a scum tell. At this point when the replacement comes in and catches up, gives us summaries of what they think, I would suggest putting them on L-1 with intent.

...Jesus Christ! You're planning to put me at L-1 with intent?

With everything that happened I forgot about this lol. Umm I think that ship sailed when LL faltered on his stance on Blopp. He made himself the main target and the Blopp slot exploration almost feels null for now.

Also wasn't expecting you to come into the game. At some point I will push personal feelings aside and if youre mafia Ill get ya. So yes hurry and catch up so we can L-1 you. You know your slot is actually in my top two partner spots if Clark flips scum. The other is Porkens. (Again something is off for me with Clark's vote )

[TheThirteenthJT]

Thirteenth, what would my hanging tell us about the game?

I've been looking at vote counts throughout the game. Jamsv has been the most firm on the LL wagon. Hasn't waivered from their stance. Raya agrees with LL early game on Blopp and then distanced by voting LL as the wagon started turning. Lickety was also pushing hard on LL and dropped a bit after the pr claim. Even with LL backtracking and dropping they have not returned to that wagon. Waiting on them now to further analyze. Meanwhile counterwagon was 72 who agreed with LL. An LL flip would be the strongest indicator of 72 this game. I am almost certain if LL is town than 72 is scum here. Does not work vice versa. Clark on your wagon just now felt extremely oppurtunistic, again more detail coming.

There's so much to learn from your flip.

And I don't want to give 100% away the tell (you can however meta me to find it.) But it's related to one of my (borrowed) rqs question and Clark gave a result with 100% scum rate. Obviously tools like that are just tools so Ive been trying to watch their game independently from it. If they flip scum that tool will be great for future games and if not Clark becomes the exception.

So which is more likely: LL town or 72 scum?

All based on intentions. 72 scum would thus know LL was town and was buddying/counterwagoning. 72 town just plain and simple agrees with LL and they share a similar mindset.

Also LL town would be 72 scum for me. Going after 72 would be less telling as I still wouldn't feel certain on the LL slot.

[TheThirteenthJT]

Why would 72 counterwagon away from LL if they know LL is town?

To not be associated with elimnating a member of the town day 1. Thought this was common scum tactics? Plus there was no need with 4 votes and hammering would have been a bad idea.

Again this is all under the assumption LL was town. The only one that really knows the truth is you on that slot. Well LL too.

[TheThirteenthJT]

I'd take Clark as my buddy to guarantee his first win as scum, and also so you could be right about me and Clark being scum.

to guarantee his first win as scum

to guarantee his first win

his first win

(Again something is off for me with Clark's vote )

Is it that I was leaning town on LL and now am pushing for the slot to be executed? Do you think my reasoning is weak? I'm happy to talk about this, so if something is troubling you don't be shy.

In general, if you think that I'm wrong on the Pork slot or that I'm not taking things into account that I should be please let me know. I just really believe pork is the right kill.

I'm going through your ISO currently. But a quick summary of what I'm seeing. It is based on your stance of LL/Porkens as well as your stance on replacement players. You defend LL hard and slowly worked your way to turning on them. But you teased a vote multiple times and it wasn't until you realized you weren't the hammer that you finally jumped on the wagon. Basically it comes down that you wanted any reason to join the wagon but we're too afraid to hammer so shied away.

[TheThirteenthJT]

Page 17 - nearly up to speed, think I will finish off tomorrow.

But you're so close...

It's midnight dude, i need some dinner

Midnight .... Dinner.... I miss those days. 3 am second dinners too.

[TheThirteenthJT]

Post 456 is by far the biggest red flag for me. I feel that up to this point Clark was attempting to slowly turn on LL but this posts felt like such a jump it felt forced. Their attitude towards that slot changed from then on.

[TheThirteenthJT]

I'm going through your ISO currently. But a quick summary of what I'm seeing. It is based on your stance of LL/Porkens as well as your stance on replacement players. You defend LL hard and slowly worked your way to turning on them. But you teased a vote multiple times and it wasn't until you realized you weren't the hammer that you finally jumped on the wagon. Basically it comes down that you wanted any reason to join the wagon but we're too afraid to hammer so shied away.

Yes, my opinion of LL did change, even after the claim. But several opinions of mine changed while rereading for 465 and if more clarity on my thought process is needed I'm happy to oblige.

Did I defend LL hard? I just didn't mind his push on Blopp and thought the ART was not as reachy as some were implying. I turned on him pretty fast actually. What's my stance on replacement players and why is it bad?

And I will tell you, I was excited to be the hammer. I've never done it before, I was going to post a M.C. Hammer "hammer time" gif and everything. But we had people like Looker and BM who were still catching up/giving reactions and so I was being patient. And then it turned out my vote math was wrong. If somebody claims intent I would actually request they let me unvote, then they put Pork at L-1 so I can then hammer.

You took a stance a few times of wanting to wait for a replacement and not wanting to hold them too much to their previous players plays because they be able to answer why certain. Things were done. . 465 is an important post in regards to this. You stated you are ok waiting for a replacement but it won't matter what they say. This should have been a hammer then. Or at least asked to this if everyone was ok with it. Even I had my questions at the time of going through the trouble of waiting for a replacement to that slot since it just felt like it was in a bad spot. Voting for Porkens on LLs play is the easiest thing to do right now.

Be careful hammering is addicting. The power... the GLORY! You do it once you'll crave it against and again. I've salivated a few times wanting to hammer but knowing it wasnt the time or place lol.

[TheThirteenthJT]

My one concern is that you want to flip LL before seeing who replaces that slot. That's a bit of a concern but not a huge one.

Did I say that? I'm cool with a replacement coming in and getting a chance to put their two cents in. If I didn't care about that I would've just hammered. The reality is though that after organizing my thoughts better it became clear to me that the LL slot is, in my opinion, the best execution available to us. I don't know what a replacement could offer us, but I'm willing to be patient to find out.

Other than that, I think if you keep playing you could be a fine player and have already shown you have the analytical capabilities to be a pretty good Town player even if you are Scum here.

I appreciate that. My analytical capabilities have so far proved disastrous, but sally forth I must.

....

[TheThirteenthJT]

Well shit, If I had remembered 467 I would have brought it up! There you go, that was my frame of mind. Looks like I followed through on what I said to boot.

So your issue is that I don't think that Porkens can effectively defend LL's actions? She has said so herself. Just because there is a replacement does not mean the slot is given a clean slate.

So what would you say if someone says to give them a clean slate the?

And further, why would you contradict yourself a few times now. Your answering seems to be to just fit along with whomever is asking you the question and responding with what you think they would like versus sticking to your resolve

[TheThirteenthJT]

Are you SCUM tho?

Nope, I'm Town this game.

BM is Scum though. His push on me is bad. In what world is LL and I Scum? Like, a fabrication of that caliber doesn't come from Town.

I will say this. While I don't believe in this scumteam... In a world were mafia wins this game.

And Clark let me rephrase

Would you say it's scummy for someone to have said ignore everything LL did and start at clean slate with Porkens?

[TheThirteenthJT]

Hmm what to do with this slot. I don't want to wait for replacement of we aren't going to give them a fair chance. Personally for me I'd say to almost disregard LL plays for whomever replaces in but I know that's not really possible. I want everyone in this wagon to give their opinions on what just happened.

I'm totally open to giving the replace in a fair shake.

What do you think of this Clark?

[TheThirteenthJT]

To be honest I don't know the mindset of LL. I did defend their early push and attempted to justify them with townviewpoints for their actions. But they threw a curve ball that makes them almost impossible to read properly for me. We're they just frustrated? I think it's a combination of things but my top reasoning for their actions would be they just didn't care about this specific game. It's the most reasonable conclusion I can come up with.

[TheThirteenthJT]

And my mindset early game for them was that I didn't think scum would push that hard so early In the game knowing to it had the potential to backfire which it did.

[TheThirteenthJT]

Clark unvote.

I knew the day would reach this point. At this point Porkens turn is the most valuable thing for the town in my mind as any chance for a PR is now gone from this slot.

Anyone have any final thoughts especially Porkens for Day 1?

[TheThirteenthJT]

Towniest
TheThirteenthJT
JamSV
Raya36
72offsuit
ClarkBar
Looker
Lickety Quickety
Porkens
Scummiest

Convinced the scumpair is Lickety Quickety and Porkens. Reads subject to change depending on flips, but that's where I am now.

Grateful if, before going to night, people can give comments on Quick, in particular his progression on LL which I highlighted in post 789 (noting that now he claims LL is null).

You are so full of it BM Your entire catchup is spewing noise, and you should be hanged tomorrow when I flip town.

I’m the most dangerous role to scum in this setup.
Vanilla Town.

VOTE: Battlemage

Once again, you said you wouldn't bother defending yourself. Claiming is worthless. You came in boisterously, saying you won't defend yourself and will only scum hunt. You've realised, that you don't have a play to get out of this as scum, that you'll get hung, and are using a last ditch effort to save yourself.

This is bad, Porkens has been asked to claim multiple times now and it was all some of us were waiting for.

[TheThirteenthJT]

Towniest
TheThirteenthJT
JamSV
Raya36
72offsuit
ClarkBar
Looker
Lickety Quickety
Porkens
Scummiest

Convinced the scumpair is Lickety Quickety and Porkens. Reads subject to change depending on flips, but that's where I am now.

Grateful if, before going to night, people can give comments on Quick, in particular his progression on LL which I highlighted in post 789 (noting that now he claims LL is null).

You are so full of it BM Your entire catchup is spewing noise, and you should be hanged tomorrow when I flip town.

I’m the most dangerous role to scum in this setup.
Vanilla Town.

VOTE: Battlemage

Once again, you said you wouldn't bother defending yourself. Claiming is worthless. You came in boisterously, saying you won't defend yourself and will only scum hunt. You've realised, that you don't have a play to get out of this as scum, that you'll get hung, and are using a last ditch effort to save yourself.

This is bad, Porkens has been asked to claim multiple times now and it was all some of us were waiting for.

We never needed a claim, we got everything we needed from Lucky.

I was still hanging to a possibility of a PR from that slot. The way LL left Meade me feel that they wanted to leave a neutral point for their replacement. As scummy as it was the doubt lingered u til now. Eepecially with Porkens refusing to claim u til just now

[TheThirteenthJT]

Spoiler:

Lucky and blopp. Maybe Clark but I'm unsure

Where's your vote then?

My vote is "on" Blopp I just don't want him at L-1

Perhaps it is a coincidence, but since being wagoned, Blopp has removed their profile pic. That means they have been onsite and decided not to post. So now we have her ignoring the initial wagon that I started with 72o, despite posting after it began and ignoring my case. In addition, we have her logging on to remove her profile pic and still not posting. Feels a lot like giving up to me.

This is a bad case and very reachy.

Also can you all look back at my two questions (rqs) I asked. I really want to know the answer for the first one.

I'll do this in my next post.

UNVOTE:
I don't want a quick hammer. L-2 is plenty for pressure. Scumlean on Lucky for not removing his vote. Could be hoping for that quickhammer

Is he your only scumlean or do you have more?

Lucky and blopp. Maybe Clark but I'm unsure

"I scumlean Lucky for possibly wanting a quick hammer on my other scumlean."

For the record, I'm expecting Blopp not to post again until the slot is replaced, and if the slot claims VT I will be pushing for the slot to be eliminated.

Just because I scumlean him doesnt mean I'm right (I never take associations into account D1. I often have multiple scumread that don't work together). And its perfectly viable to be concerned about someone not removing their vote at L-1 when Blopp hasn't even talked yet.

Actually since I can't vote Blopp right now VOTE: Lucky. I think this is more likely anyway. Your stats case also was reachy and the whole basis of your scumread isn't concrete. I would accept your case if and only if it was supporting evidence of a much stronger and more viable case.

Isn't most Day 1 early cases reachy? I really hate this argument
Also I see you join The Luciano wagon after I printed you to vote and someone else joined before you. I don't like this. I could argue myself that your case on him is reachy but again my case is reachy here no? Finally your case is more repreat what was already aid to give you a reason to join the wagon. While not Al we always scum indicative it's a good start.

Once I catch up my read here I will chiose where my vote goes but you are definitely setting off alarms.

I broadly agree with this take.

So I'm not super into this game yet so I'm gonna make a readslist to orient myself.

Town:

JamSV - Town, tonal/reasoning, 56 was bad town play imo. Scum wouldn't be so obvious if this was an attempt at a quick hammer though I think.

ClarkBar - I think Clark is overeager town on a reread. This is consistent with their RVS play. I no longer find defending Blopp to be scummy since the eagerness is consistent. His responses to my questioning about this sounds genuine too.

Homura - Townlean, I like the stance taken on Lucky and it's very similar thoughts to my own.

TheThirteenthJT - Slight townlean. 58 are you suggesting Jam and Clark are partners? What is your read on Clark? I believe your vote is still there.

Null:

LicketyQuickety - Null, need to hear more.

72offsuit - Null. I actually scumread RQS a bit (but very weakly), I don't find it works or does any good and responses tend to lead only to unrelated debate. It muddies the thread. Also why start RQS then refuse to answer and say it won't help find alignment? What is your read on Lucky?

Blopp - Scumlean/null for lack of content. I want to hear from her or a replacement.

Scum:

LuckyLuciano - Scum, didn't remove vote at L-1, reachy case on Blopp (had a greeting in their first post, LAMIST post (23) but I heavily disagree. How is 23 any different than the RQS questions and how could she be using it to try to look town or helpful?, saying that they came online to remove their profile pic but didn't post so must be given up scum). It seems like he's trying to make a case out of nothing. It also seems like he's trying to set up a lynch to for sure be Blopp (stating that if he gets replaced and they claim VT he'll push for their lynch, not seeming particularly interested in hearing from the replacement). It's always best to hear from the replacement of a sus player. I don't like the statistics analysis too. Usually when I see stuff like this I take it as busy work. It's not a strong case, there's lots of variables, it muddied up the thread and made the game less readable for me at least. A question for you Lucky, why can't newbtown get frustrated and quit when a wagon is formed on them? Why must Blopp be scum for this?

A good readslist. Smart town or informed scum? Only 1 scumread though, and largest wagon at this point, so not going out on much of a limb. Although she hasn't given herself much room for manoerve either. Gut feeling still Raya-scum, has felt awkwardly out of step with rest of the play to this point.

@JamSV, why did you put Blopp at L-1 and proceed to tell players to feel free to hammer and state that you see quickhammers as NAI?

A quickhammer can be seen as NAI as it could just be a really bad misunderstanding leading to a bad play. Which is why I believe a quickhammer without an explanation is scum indicative, but one with (on its own) is NAI.

I put him on L-1 to see how he would react. Nobody would express intent to hammer so my proceeding post was to in force that a extra bit of pressure. I have faith nobody would come in and swoop to quick hammer, considering we had all already posted (excluding Echovision), and we could all easily see how close he is to getting hammered. I will admit, I really didn't expect him to "leave" if we can class that as what he is doing. Plus that type of play is good for moving more out of the RVS, and it can apply simple pressure to see just how easily somebody would actually fold.

- If you were wondering if I have a bit too much faith in people, I probably do.

Quick hammers are a difficult subject to assess. In my first game I delivered a naked quickhammer as town. I was a town mason and we had our reasons for it. In the end all quickhammers have reasons even if not explained and do follow an agenda so they are touchy subjects for me. No we maybe a quickhammers earlier in the day umpromted may be a case for scum but have not encountered that situation yet. Most come towards the end of the day phase.

Now I do find it interesting you placed Blopp at e-1 and didn't really get called out much for it. Instead Raya unvoted and Luciano got scumleaned for not doing do as well. I don't believe you had I'll intentions and neither did Luciano. Raya comes away again as most suspicious and a bit LAMIST for his unvote.

That's a very good point about Raya not calling out Jam - I missed that one! Would Raya have been tunnelling her partner this early? Although a scumlean is only a warning shot I guess...

And you're preaching to the converted on quickhammers!

You can take a look at my meta if you want 72. 4 townleans/reads early game is not unusual for me. multiple scumleans isn't either. And I'm sure you can find reads similar to my read on Homura too.

You're not scumread because my RQS statement is very weak and can only be used as a statement to back up a stronger case.

Don't like this in isolation, and had a similar comment towards Lucky earlier. Comes across as if the cases would be artificial rather than legitimate (i'll only commit to a scumread once I think my case will stand up to scrutiny). Unlikely Raya-72 scumpair?

TheThirteenthJT - Slight townlean. 58 are you suggesting Jam and Clark are partners? What is your read on Clark? I believe your vote is still there.

Yes partially. I was also suggesting that scum are the only ones that truly know everyone's alignment. So Clark is an interesting read for me and would like to expand on this later. He actually failed a test earlier and it looks bad for him but his play has indicated town for me. I will be keeping a good look at him throughout the game but it's currently Not enough for me to keep my vote on him currently.

So after my reread my vote will most comfortably be here

UNVOTE: clark
VOTE: raya36

I'm interested in what this failed test is

me too. Hey TTJT - what was the test?

Read that post from the lens of a reya misshang

Can't speak for anyone else but myself here. Now read this list from the perspective of a player calling out what they see.

[TheThirteenthJT]

The desperation for this lynch to go through is palpable. Remember this page.

Interestingly enough you townread those who pushed your slot elimination the hardest.

[TheThirteenthJT]

Nani!

Lol. Last second Clark wagon incoming?

[TheThirteenthJT]

I would have hammered Porkens here but Clark wanted it bad so I didn't. This feels like a weird turn Jamsv. It makes me want a Porkens flip worse now.

[TheThirteenthJT]

Porkens has been on the fence for hammering this slot for a while now and a few times looked to be close. You never called it out then but why now?

This is very weird especially for me because I do scumlean Clark more than Porkens.

[TheThirteenthJT]

Raya are you all caught up?

[TheThirteenthJT]

Porkens has been on the fence for hammering this slot for a while now and a few times looked to be close. You never called it out then but why now?

This is very weird especially for me because I do scumlean Clark more than Porkens.

So you were encouraging the player you scumread more than me to hammer me?

Encouraging is a strong word here. Theyve stated intent and really wanted to hammer. I was ready to hammer you but wanted Clark to unvote so I could e-1 you and them hanner. This feels almost unavoidable at this point.if I e-1 right now I miss out on Jamsv turn of events but I assure you it's coming.

I've explained a few times how I think your turn is the most beneficial for the town. A scum there's one left to go. As town, provides a depth of analysis as well as prevents scum from keeping you around and pushing suspicions ok n to you again later down the road.

You should really be seeing the benefits of your turn if you are town but you keep fighting it. Even when you said you were here tof and scum not defend yourself.

[TheThirteenthJT]

VOTE: porkens

You arent looking at my point here.

I've been 100% on scum voting when they've been elimnated. Hammered both times lol. I really want to continue my stream (maybe not hammering this time.)

[TheThirteenthJT]

I've allowed everyone to say their peace now. Jamsv you put yourself in a bad spot here at the end. You were my top town read for not waiverinf your stance.

[TheThirteenthJT]

Even worse spot with that hammer.

[TheThirteenthJT]

Jamsv and Porkens twam anyone?

[TheThirteenthJT]

I'm 50/50 about you Porkens in all honesty. I see both sides of your potential flip and I'm not denying it.

[TheThirteenthJT]

Porkens if you read my play this day you will know I have not been the enemy to your slot as town. If you are I did my best to give you the benefit of the doubt but this train was unavoidable

[TheThirteenthJT]

Anyways Porkens you did a great job coming into that slot. Would have personally loved to do so myself. (This is not part of game talk just genuine feelings.)

No I truly don't know your alignment. Regardless you you see why this is the best for the town if you are town. Defensiveness is making me certain you will flip red.

[TheThirteenthJT]

Jamsv has been so levelheaded this game. That flipflop is weird lol.

[TheThirteenthJT]

I was wrong about Porkens and Jam robbed me of the hammer. What a brutal fucking day.

You were wrong about Porkens?

[TheThirteenthJT]

VOTE: 72offsuit

I disagree with those feeling 72 is town after that turn. I explained the reasons for the opposite Day 1.

Clark and Raya are still some of my favorites and Battle Mage is now also suspect to me.

Jamesv is weird...

No thoughts on Looker yet. Most of my thinking is still based off Homuras play which I will revisit.

Current areadlist scum to less scum.
72 confident here.
Raya
Clark
battle mage
Looker
Jamsv

I see a few potential scum pairings too.
72 and Clark or BM and Clark. I have no pairing for Raya currently.

Quick thoughts, I'm tired tonight and will check back in tomorrow.

[TheThirteenthJT]

Forgot tO add BM +72 scum team. You have two players juipsstifying you are town at the start of the day phase based on the flip. When in all honesty I feel that the flips only implicates you more because of the constant buddying with LL before Porkens and counterwagoning day 1. If you flip red your partner will be either BM and Clark.

I am also ok with a Clark vote here because of Day 1 play and I don't think early day 2 play has been helping my thoughts. Agrees you are town 72, tries to deflect attention to Jamsv, and agrees with my list despite 72 being my top scumread and town for them? Clark flip implicates BM for me.

Now BM as individual hasn't been giving me too many scumvibes, may be biased for my bro here. Associations a re what have him as a suspect.

Raya has been the scummiest player day 1 for me (Clark almost tied) and I need to see more from them here Day 2. At this point my advice would be to stop worrying about the pressure on you and instead helping scumhunt since most of their posts have been about defending themselves and I know I've been stuck in that pocket. This is also the biggest doubt I have reflecting their play.

[TheThirteenthJT]

Spoiler:

Looker replaced Homura: Lurky as fuck. How can I read this?

I'm not lurky, you just have nothing better to do with your time. You made 72 posts in the course of a day. I have things to do, a job, and an occupation where I don't have access to my phone.

Flip preferences: 29% Porkens | 20% JamSV | 16% Raya | 14% ThirteenthJT or LicketyQuick | 12% Battle Mage | 9% 72offsuit | 0% ClarkBar

---

I've been working longer hours so I'm more irritated by the time I get home. Sorry. LuckyLuciano is not a bad person. His fakeclaim and AtE are still scummy, though.

Okay so important question, I'm going to assume, that it is in order of scum likeliness, such that the higher percentage we have, the scummier we are. In that regards, why is Clark 0%, a perfect town read, I find it interesting given none of us have him as our strongest town read. Can we interpret it as mason buddies / scum buddies, as realistically, even if I was convinced Battle Mage was the towniest town that town has ever seen, there's still a chance something could change and I'd want to remove him, the 0% seems suspicious if we consider % by scum likeliness.

If we consider % instead by removing based off of scum likeliness + you liking their play style, I think the 0% on Clark and the 9% on A9offsuit makes less sense. I'd like an explanation on 72offsuit's if that's the case.

As such, instead of leaving this up to interpretation what %s represent and why you have the numbers, could you care to order us by scum likeliness?

I don't understand which words you were trying to put in my mouth. Either way, you didn't wait for my explanation before you hammered.

I decided to do a bit of work for Looker, because I was curious. Based off of mod's vote count posts because I'm too lazy to go through 30 pages. Thank you Nahdia.
Table of who voted for whom voted for whom:
https://imgur.com/Cv3ZhUu idk how to include images into a post properly.

A bunch of logic stuff, read if you want, but it's in a spoiler if you don't want to.

Spoiler:

Now as we know, Looker gave Clark a 0% chance to be scum based off of who voted him, and who he voted for. He voted for Looker himself, and Porkens. Obviously he will treat himself as town, that means voting for Porkens does not make you scum at all, meaning Looker scum reads Porkens.

By those standards, myself, LicketyQuickety, and Raya36 should have lower %s by his standards. That isn't the case though. Meaning, those who voted for us, make us scum. In my case, based off of Mod vote counts, nobody has voted for me, yet I'm the 2nd highest to be scum for it, weird. This is strike 1 for his post being nonsensical.

Raya was voted for by TTJT and 72os, and voted Porkens and LicketyQuickety, from this we can assume Looker town reads TTJT, 72os, and LicketyQuickety. However based off of the percentages for me, Raya, lickety, and TTJT, this makes no sense again. This is strike 2 for his post being nonsensical.

LicketyQuickety voted for Battle Mage, Porkens, 72, and TTJT, well, we just worked out TTJT and 72 were town, and a vote on porkens gave ClarkBar a 0%, so this implies Battle Mage is scum. This is strike 3 for his post being nonsensical.

Basically, what the spoiler says is, its nonsense, I could explain more but I got bored. I felt like proving his post about how he got his %s was just a lie. I really would like to see his read list on everybody, doesn't necessarily need an explanation, I'd also like an explanation between the 0% on Clark because his explanation was nonsense, and on the 9% for 72offsuit. Good news though Porkens, depending on how he responds, can change my mind into expecting a ClarkBar/Looker duo.

Your assumptions are confusing me. I also think it's weird that you went from "I don't understand what Looker means" to "Looker is being purposefully 'nonsensical'" without any input from me.

Spoiler:

VOTE: 72offsuit

I disagree with those feeling 72 is town after that turn. I explained the reasons for the opposite Day 1.

Clark and Raya are still some of my favorites and Battle Mage is now also suspect to me.

Jamesv is weird...

No thoughts on Looker yet. Most of my thinking is still based off Homuras play which I will revisit.

Current areadlist scum to less scum.
72 confident here.
Raya
Clark
battle mage
Looker
Jamsv

I see a few potential scum pairings too.
72 and Clark or BM and Clark. I have no pairing for Raya currently.

Quick thoughts, I'm tired tonight and will check back in tomorrow.

I have to disagree, with 72 and Clark scumteam, and suggest Clark + Looker instead.
VOTE: ClarkBar

JamSV/Raya

---

• Flip preferences: 24% JamSV | 22% Raya | 19% Battle Mage | 18% ThirteenthJT | 9% ClarkBar | 8% 72offsuit
  • Jams's imgur post shows he voteparked a town slot and has avoided suspicion all game.
• I think it's interesting that this is a newbie game, but there are like no newbies.
  
• That was kind of a low blow - "His reads don't tend to be particularly accurate in general". My reads are as accurate as anybody else's.

VOTE: JamSV

Would you go Raya over Jamsv?

[TheThirteenthJT]

Jamsv what are your thoughts on 72. You disagree with my assessment on them so I'm curious where you stand. Do you also have a readlist anywhere?

72 similar questions right now. How do you fe about Jamsv and Looker. Town v town. Scum v town? Scum v scum.

PS I am ready to change my vote to add pressure to a wagon but these questions will need to be answered first.

BM me and Clark is a wild theory. Did you ever look at rv's questioned I asked and Clark's answer? To be honest should be proof enough that didn't warn him how to not answer it.

[TheThirteenthJT]

Screw it. Let's test something out. I really feel Jamsv is pursuing a non issue instead of scumhunting. But maybe it's just me not understanding the percentage dispute and why it matters at all. It was just a different way to do a readlist in my eyes.

VOTE: Jamsv

[TheThirteenthJT]

Just wait Quick, you are going to love what I post. A game with both you and Looker in it is bound to be a joke.

It's because I quickhammered humaneatingmonkey. Genuine aggression or are you fucking with me?

Lucky

72o

Thirteen

Looker

Quick

JamSV

Clark

BM

Raya

I'm still sold on the BM slot being scum. Sorry BM, you've been dealt a bad hand. People can deny newbie tells as legitimate, but they still work. The only reason he's not a solid

red

is because of the possibilities of angles Raya has taken. I feel that Raya has to act the way she has if Blopp is scum, because she can't win the game alone once Blopp is eliminated. I didn't immediately switch from Blopp to Raya when posting my analysis on her slot because I was giving her the benefit of the doubt, but her continued pushing in bad faith, her constant attempts to buddy half the player list, and some of 72o's points on her slot have convinced me she's 100% scum. If Blopp (BM) is scum, Raya is

always

scum. The only case where Raya is scum and blopp (BM) is not is one where Raya took an incredibly aggressive position of hard defending town!Blopp while chainsaw pushing me in hopes of chain eliminating which ever one of us doesn't get eliminated D1. In that case, Clark is positioned with the highest partner equity for Raya. I decide this because of their early interactions with Raya and their latest ISO of Raya where Raya magically becomes town at the end of it. I think it's more likely that Clark is just new and still learning than that they are scumbuddies with Raya. I think newbie scum might be more likely to join their scumbuddy in pushing me. Maybe Clark should be higher up on the list of townies, I think he's only this low because in the small case where Raya is playing super aggressively and wasn't forced to by a newbie partner getting caught and bailing, she'd need a scumbuddy that's not Blopp (BM). Anyway, it's pretty much always Blopp (BM) / Raya.

The way you ordered your list is weird to me; why put Raya at the bottom if your chief suspect is Battle Mage? And you're voting Battle Mage but say Raya has the most scum equity.

Looker replaces Homura.

Hey Looker! Please tell me if I'm crazy about thinking Lucky is scum here and your thoughts on getting a proper claim since he claimed a TPR

Hey, Raya. Fuck LuckyLuciano. I'm pretty sure he's just faking his outrage because he has no other tools in his skillset as scum. Him faking a PR was weak.

---

• Currently, flip preferences are: 36% LuckyLuciano or Battle Mage | 26% 72offsuit, JamSV, or ThirteenthJT | 16% LicketyQuickety | 12% ClarkBar | 10% Raya.

VOTE: LuckyLuciano

Looker replaced Homura: Lurky as fuck. How can I read this?

I'm not lurky, you just have nothing better to do with your time. You made 72 posts in the course of a day. I have things to do, a job, and an occupation where I don't have access to my phone.

Spoiler:

Ok sorry about contributing to 10 pages today. I just finished my secodnnd read through and here’s my new spicy take:

Reya is ropebait and scum are setting up to mishang her.

El Town:
JamSV replaced individual
ClarkBar
LicketyQuickety (SE) replaced EchoVision
Raya36 (SE)
Porkens (SE) replaced LuckyLuciano

Scum are in:
Looker replaced Homura
72offsuit
Battle Mage replaced Blopp
TheThirteenthJT

(Now there is an alternate universe where Echo was scum with Blooper but that’s pretty tinfoil)

Anyway, could be shit, but there you have it.

VOTE: TheThirteenthJT

Flip preferences: 29% Porkens | 20% JamSV | 16% Raya | 14% ThirteenthJT or LicketyQuick | 12% Battle Mage | 9% 72offsuit | 0% ClarkBar

---

I've been working longer hours so I'm more irritated by the time I get home. Sorry. LuckyLuciano is not a bad person. His fakeclaim and AtE are still scummy, though.

He has you pretty high on the list since it started. I feel had you not been so high on his list you wouldn't have had any problems with it

Not all readlsts have explanations to it. I haven't seen you question BM or Clark for theirs.

[TheThirteenthJT]

Towniest
TheThirteenthJT
JamSV
Raya36
72offsuit
ClarkBar
Looker
Lickety Quickety
Porkens
Scummiest

Convinced the scumpair is Lickety Quickety and Porkens. Reads subject to change depending on flips, but that's where I am now.

Grateful if, before going to night, people can give comments on Quick, in particular his progression on LL which I highlighted in post 789 (noting that now he claims LL is null).

That's BM's and NVM on Clark don't know if he posted a readlist but someone else did.

[TheThirteenthJT]

Ideally yes I would want someone to explain their reads. Does it make them scummy for not doing. Not 100% of the time. My whole issue with it is do how minimal impact this discussion has on the game when I see clearer targets.

My elim pool right now is Clark orr 72 basically. I wanted to see how Jamsv and Looker reacted with my vote but I don't think it's had a big impact.

Clark is at l-2? Let me look back after I post this.

[TheThirteenthJT]

Yup l-2. I actually wouldn't want a quickhammers this day so I'm not risking it. Maybe Clark should claim at l-2?

[TheThirteenthJT]

Ideally yes I would want someone to explain their reads. Does it make them scummy for not doing. Not 100% of the time. My whole issue with it is do how minimal impact this discussion has on the game when I see clearer targets.

My elim pool right now is Clark orr 72 basically. I wanted to see how Jamsv and Looker reacted with my vote but I don't think it's had a big impact.

Clark is at l-2? Let me look back after I post this.

In the nicest way, saying you're testing something just kind of made me feel like, oh he isn't actually suspicious, IDK it just felt like it removes a lot of the pressure.

I know UNVOTE:

You were my least scummy read so it should have been obvious it was a test whether I said it or not. I honestly don't think it had any effect even before saying this. And it wasnt just you it was also for Looker but he flat out ignored someone else joining your wagon. Right now the only way I see you as scum is based on your partners flip. My heart was not in your vote at all and I couldn't even muster the energy to fake it. But I will say this don't feel safe with me lol. I've done it before were I vote against my own reads if I trust the players around me.

[TheThirteenthJT]

VOTE: clark

L-1 I will policy elim your ass tomorrow if you hammer (Jamsv!)

Let's test BMs theory. Ps BM if this nothing you rise in my suspicion list.

[TheThirteenthJT]

I built the early case against you lol.

[TheThirteenthJT]

UNVOTE: clark

My votes on you. I just don't trust people.

[TheThirteenthJT]

72 you pinky swear not to hammer too? Lol

VOTE: clark

I'm a bit off my rocker today.

[TheThirteenthJT]

Nah 72 and I have history now. A bit of a previous game situation...joke lol.

You said you wouldn't above so I'm trusting you. Raya is a question mark but they are already in the chopping block so wouldn't make sense. And Looker I don't think would quickhammers Clark unless 100% scum. Clark could hammer clark but shouldn't if town.

[TheThirteenthJT]

Wait 72 is already on this wagon.

[TheThirteenthJT]

I'm convinced clark BM scum team.

UNVOTE: clark still going to do this as a safe but sorry bet.

[TheThirteenthJT]

What was your theory BM?

[TheThirteenthJT]

Not 72?

[TheThirteenthJT]

VOTE: raya

[TheThirteenthJT]

Parking my vote for the night.

[TheThirteenthJT]

So I'm not defending BM here because it does look bad. Is his position plausible? Yes. I was actually thinking scum or pr for Clark. The way BM was pushing made me think he was breadcrumbing a PR and wanted to test out Clark's reaction to l-1. So I voted. Anyways I'm trying to think of all possibilities to this but gambits like usually end up in an elimnation and at this point BM just make best to help us town out.

Anyways updated rankings scum to less scummy
BM
72
Raya
Looker
Jamsv
Clark
Also ps clark maybe next time you are cop don't out a town unless 100%needed.

My vote on BM is pending Raya cc.

Also did not like Lookers vote on Raya after pushing Jamsv. Potential last attempt to divert wagon but I actually think it's too obvious for it to be really the case. If BM flips town Looker is scum and we go Looker 72. Maybe Raya.

I'm going to put more combos now that we confirm no masons. I suggest we all do this now to make a potential Elo easier.

[TheThirteenthJT]

Mas claim time. I am the town doctor. I was bout to warn you guys not to close out the day because I would w unavailable to send in a night action until today. I'll respond after work

[TheThirteenthJT]

If someone wants to counterclaim I gladly encourage it. makes the game easy for town lol. I'll get back to you guys in a bit.

[TheThirteenthJT]

Not 72 and jams BM try again.

Game would be over.

[TheThirteenthJT]

And I want to see you guys go it some more. Ive been doing math to figure this one out. I honestly wish I had unvoted last day and would of had I been given the chance.

[TheThirteenthJT]

This game comes down to 72 and Looker or BM with either looker and jams. I have to do a reread and I'll figure it out. Should have eliminated me last night over Clark in all honesty.

[TheThirteenthJT]

Eh would that elimantion actually have gone through?

[TheThirteenthJT]

@looker what made you doubt my claim btw? It's just weird.

So I want to give my scumrankings as to were my mind is. I am also doing ISo reads in will be for the next couple days so don't expect my vote anytime soon.

Scum
72- for reasons continuing from day 2. I had you as confirmed scum. Only doubt I have on you right now is my own personal selfsoubt.

BM- I know you and 72 can't be a team but I see you as the second scummiest player here. I looked over your ISO and you barely looked at Looker meanwhile interacted with Jamsv all game. You and Jamsv I want to rule out but at the same time the bussing each other side a big possibility.

Jamsv I've described your play as weird and to me very bold for scum. You made yourself a target day one and for no reason. Thought you would have been a PR and we're trying to save yourself after almost being universally town read

Looker is my weakest read. I have not liked their vote progressions at all throughout the game especially that Raya/duns vote. At the end I feel like I have the least content from them to analyze.

I'm basically done for tonight.

[TheThirteenthJT]

I came to a conclusion last night. I'm almost sure now.

This is my first Elo situation so I I hope I don't mess it up. I'll put a final case and see what everyone thinks before voting when I'm fully free tonight. At this point I feel 90% sure of one scum. I'm willing to take the chances on it and bet the game. If we lose I'll gladly take the loss.

Everyone final scum pairings you'll bet the game on?

[TheThirteenthJT]

Jams why are you so sure it can't be looker and 72? Wouldnt your choices be BM/72 and Looker if you are 100% sure looker is scum. Likewise I can't rule out you and BM since BM would have been bussing you all game.

[TheThirteenthJT]

Also I want a confirmation from. Town that you won't all hate me if I make the wrong choice lol.

[TheThirteenthJT]

Also I want a confirmation from. Town that you won't all hate me if I make the wrong choice lol.

I won't hate you dude, given my bloody performance this game! But I'll be a bit disappointed in us collectively if we can't get 72 at least. You only need to hit 1 today, and then the pressure is probably on me tomorrow!

Why do you mean by tHis? .

[TheThirteenthJT]

Alright I am neither confirming or denying. In a scenerrio where I fakeclaimed doctor would it change your views? Obviously mafia knows the truth and town can only believe what I say. Does that make a difference based on reactions to my claim. How would you see looker who was the only one to have openly opposed my claim.

[TheThirteenthJT]

I decided to do a bit of work for Looker, because I was curious. Based off of mod's vote count posts because I'm too lazy to go through 30 pages. Thank you Nahdia.
Table of who voted for whom voted for whom:
https://imgur.com/Cv3ZhUu idk how to include images into a post properly.

A bunch of logic stuff, read if you want, but it's in a spoiler if you don't want to.

Spoiler:

Now as we know, Looker gave Clark a 0% chance to be scum based off of who voted him, and who he voted for. He voted for Looker himself, and Porkens. Obviously he will treat himself as town, that means voting for Porkens does not make you scum at all, meaning Looker scum reads Porkens.

By those standards, myself, LicketyQuickety, and Raya36 should have lower %s by his standards. That isn't the case though. Meaning, those who voted for us, make us scum. In my case, based off of Mod vote counts, nobody has voted for me, yet I'm the 2nd highest to be scum for it, weird. This is strike 1 for his post being nonsensical.

Raya was voted for by TTJT and 72os, and voted Porkens and LicketyQuickety, from this we can assume Looker town reads TTJT, 72os, and LicketyQuickety. However based off of the percentages for me, Raya, lickety, and TTJT, this makes no sense again. This is strike 2 for his post being nonsensical.

LicketyQuickety voted for Battle Mage, Porkens, 72, and TTJT, well, we just worked out TTJT and 72 were town, and a vote on porkens gave ClarkBar a 0%, so this implies Battle Mage is scum. This is strike 3 for his post being nonsensical.

Basically, what the spoiler says is, its nonsense, I could explain more but I got bored. I felt like proving his post about how he got his %s was just a lie. I really would like to see his read list on everybody, doesn't necessarily need an explanation, I'd also like an explanation between the 0% on Clark because his explanation was nonsense, and on the 9% for 72offsuit. Good news though Porkens, depending on how he responds, can change my mind into expecting a ClarkBar/Looker duo.

I'm doing iso reads btw. Found that table hilarious. The order has all 5 of us towards the front. Jamsv/72 confirmed lol jk. Still working my way to making a vote. Also waiting for Lookers thoughts.

From Jams ISO he would have bussed 72 quite a bit day one. Meanwhile defended Blopp whole he was not around. Bloopp becomes BM so I'm looking at interactions. That's where I'm at.

[TheThirteenthJT]

Alright I am neither confirming or denying. In a scenerrio where I fakeclaimed doctor would it change your views? Obviously mafia knows the truth and town can only believe what I say. Does that make a difference based on reactions to my claim. How would you see looker who was the only one to have openly opposed my claim.

Just make a choice.

I think this game resolves the same way.

Looker's 0 interest makes me further think its looker +bm.

I think if Jams is scum than he has won already, though i think thats unlikely.

If you kick BM, i kick looker tomorrow.

If you kick looker and he flips scum, pretty sure jam kicks BM tomorrow.

If you kick me its game over.

If you kick jam, who knows.

If I get agreements from BM and Jams I will move this day phase to it's end.

[TheThirteenthJT]

If we flip lickety and raya we have a potential order of the game lol.

[TheThirteenthJT]

Alright I want to stick to my gut here. I think from everyone 72 is scum. Just everything adds up for me here. As for partner Jamsv or looker is where I struggle.

At this point I'm clearing BM. If in wrong well I apologize tot he town. Anyways. I want either Jamsv or Looker to vote 72. I don't want the other to hammer just yet if you are town.

Also I guess I do t really need BMa approval. Of course h would like this regardless of alignment.

[TheThirteenthJT]

I don't know why it can't be Looker and 72. You seems to have ruled that out.

[TheThirteenthJT]

And I'll work it out as best as I can. I'm dead anyways for next day if we hit scum.

[TheThirteenthJT]

While I see your points scum won't risk me being alive as doctor. I would obviously protect the other confirmed town. Unless you don't think I'm the doctor.

[TheThirteenthJT]

Alright then similarly I would want BM or 72 to vote Looker before I do.

[TheThirteenthJT]

Regardless on who is voted I would want the other player who did not vote to not hammer but still post before I hammer. I'll leave the clock to you guys to crossvote.

[TheThirteenthJT]

If it is BM and jam it was going to be difficult anyways.

[TheThirteenthJT]

I wanted to add pressure. It was obvious scum would talk to their partner to figure out what to do. With Looker missing I was testing things out.
LL as in Luciano?

Technically I did when I asked Jams to vote you.

[TheThirteenthJT]

At least one Scum tend to shy away from leading wagon on day one. Luciano was the wagon and you hard defended and went for the same vote as him while simply agreeing. I know I similarly defended Luciano but I wasn't buddying him like I felt you did. With his flip as town it made you my too suspect. Also I find it weird you hammered dunatrel without a claim especially after our last game together where you did the same to me and that backfired. I have high doubts that you would do that twice in a row. In fact I would expect town you to be a bit more hesitant this game, which you haven't.

[TheThirteenthJT]

I did read him as scummy and really wanted a 72 and BM team but that became impossible since this game would be over andlokker or Jamsv would have been hammered

I did not like the situation around Clark the previous day and also I have issues trusting his reaction to a potential fakeclaim by me as I figure town him would have said something along the lines of "I figured there was a chance you were fakeclaimjng" especially after he openly said I am capable of doing it

Now as the day goes BM and Jamsv seemed to be more of a team for me. But it was going to be hard to do my crossvote thing since he is missing.

Looker is hard to read. I literally can't.

[TheThirteenthJT]

How was obv town. He played very troll like and I have a hate relationship with that style. He was a very easy target to push and Jamsv was one of the elaidng pushers. Jamsv and you would be a perfect push in that scenario. No need for both of you to do it when LL basically screwed himself.

[TheThirteenthJT]

I really wanted to claim before the elimnation the day before to be gone instead of Clark lol.

This is the worst situation for me. I hate being town. I don't think I ever have enough confidence in myself and end up scrambling. I was hoping to bait slips but obviously everyone is too experienced here for such things to work.

[TheThirteenthJT]

I did read him as scummy and really wanted a 72 and BM team but that became impossible since this game would be over andlokker or Jamsv would have been hammered

I did not like the situation around Clark the previous day and also I have issues trusting his reaction to a potential fakeclaim by me as I figure town him would have said something along the lines of "I figured there was a chance you were fakeclaimjng" especially after he openly said I am capable of doing it

Now as the day goes BM and Jamsv seemed to be more of a team for me. But it was going to be hard to do my crossvote thing since he is missing.

Looker is hard to read. I literally can't.

Why did you WANT a bm + me team?
That alone shows u r confbiasing on me.

So figure looker out through PoE

It was going to be the easiest on my reads. This situation were it's one from I me group and one from the other was worst case scenario for me.

Looker to me would be town based on Poe.

[TheThirteenthJT]

Jamsv is always around him not being here right now is actually worrying me. Both him and BM have the same time zone correct?

[TheThirteenthJT]

If looker is town then y rnt u kicking jams.

Your play makes zero sense

I don't disagree with you. I'm literally shitting the bed right now.

[TheThirteenthJT]

VOTE: jamsv

[TheThirteenthJT]

BM vote jamsv. Gg if this is game over. I'm going to bed

Sorry I sucked guys.

[TheThirteenthJT]

I did play horrible here at the end I apologize to the town for the let down. BM how could you do this to me. Heartbroken.

[TheThirteenthJT]

What was the point of fake claiming doc? You were already clear, mafia knew you were lying because of their own roles (they know there's no doc in the setup because they don't have a roleblocker)

I guess it didn't harm the town, in any case

I didn't want a fakeclaim that would go uncountered. I was confirmed town and if there was a doctor they would out themselves and I can claim I fakeclaimed. Obviously I thought no scum would counterclaim and go 1v1 with a conftown even if they knew I was fakeclaimjng.

[TheThirteenthJT]

"Hey, man, I'm a doc that didn't protect the cop because I was busy. No, I didn't submit V/LA. No, I didn't ask for an extension. Just get off my back, alright??"

I don;t think comments like this are helpful.

Learn to win gracefully.

Jam and I had you pegged, don;t gloat.

Aahhh, I guess that could be seen as insulting. I pointed it out because I thought it was clever.

I wanted to claim doctor before the day ended in case we did have one and I would be targeted over Clark. Obviously I didn't know if there was or wasn't but I was banking on there being one. It would have potentially outed another town and made this greater than 50 50.

This game works against me because I scumread everyone and I can't read looker so Poe is he is town.

And 72 I actually though you played.much different than our previous game. I know you said you hate meta. The only think you recreated was a hammer without a claim and pairing that with my thoughts on LL situation I was getting bad vibes. I have a hard time shaking off my reads and looking at others and it's something I know and it screwed us here at the end.

[TheThirteenthJT]

That's pretty decent thinking

However, to a real doctor, you're still confirmed town, so their reaction may differ to what you were hoping for

I know and Looker called the bluff I believe.