Newbie 2016: Snapdragons (Game Over)

[Porkens]

Hey hey hey!

Good evening moons, I’m porkens. I like to lolhammer, memegambit, and fall scumteams day 1. My perfect date includes lying on the floor, playing Super Nintendo, and eating chips.

Fun fact: I skimmed this slot and was BLOWN AWAY to get a town PM.

Ill read if I have to but I’ll give a cookie to anyone who catches me up on the game state!!

[Porkens]

This is the scumteam:

Spoiler:

VOTE: Blopp

For having the word Townie as a title as fake town.

He's mafia, my vote is no longer random.

Agreed.

VOTE: Blopp

THANK YOU NEXT!

[Porkens]

This list is total crap and almost completely upside down.

Lucky
72o
Thirteen
Looker
Quick
JamSV
Clark
BM
Raya

About half the day I’m scumreading 72, although he started to pick up towards the end here. I don’t hate his thoughts on reya tbf.
Raya is townlean tho
Clark and jam are probtown
Bm and quick are probtown
Looker and thirteen are leanscum

72 has no votes? That’s rediculois. VOTE: 72

[Porkens]

1. What is your experience in mafia outside of mafiascum? I play on epic mafia sometimes, started there. My pie is shit.
2. Do you prefer playing as town or scum? Town
3. What do you think of lynching lurkers? Depends on the particular flavor of lurking and gamestate
4. What do you think of lynching liars? Depends on the lie, and the liar

[Porkens]

I’m not here to convince you that I’m town; I’m here to find the mafia

72 gets a cookie!

JamSV gets 1 demerit for his “healthy game” what does that even mean?

[Porkens]

hey Raya nice to meetcha. Let’s talk about something what you got

[Porkens]

Why do you want more input?

[Porkens]

Why does 72 get a cookie?

Did you read my opening post?

[Porkens]

Hey looker,

I’m as caught up as I’m gunna be. I read through last night after my initial post and before my last.

No not omgus at all, like I said I thought this slot was scum too. I give a smaaaaaal amount of weight to the blooper avatar theory and you haven’t posted much for me to read you. So the needle hasn’t moved much.

[Porkens]

I respect your right to be wrong

Now, before that nasty hammer comes down on my widdle head, in the mean time, ask me a question or two.

[Porkens]

Why do you want more input?

Incase it's not as town oriented as I think

And why are you concerned about whether advocating that I full claim be viewed as town oriented?

[Porkens]

Why does 72 get a cookie?

Did you read my opening post?

Yes

Then why are you asking about 72’s cookie?

[Porkens]

I’m not here to convince you that I’m town; I’m here to find the mafia

72 gets a cookie!

JamSV gets 1 demerit for his “healthy game” what does that even mean?

A wild porkens appears. Just like in Juuni Taisen I reckon they should be the first one to be hammered (I am aware chronologically it wasn't boar but its the first we saw). I can predict with very high accuracy that when someone comes in and the first thing they say is "I like to lolhammer, and memegambit", that they're going to ruin the game. Not to mention "I skimmed this slot and was BLOWN AWAY to get a town BM" is utter BS LAMIST nonsense.
Once again my vote is no longer going to move.

Oh , AND jam didn’t answer my question. Afraid that’s another demerit.

[Porkens]

I’m not here to convince you that I’m town; I’m here to find the mafia

72 gets a cookie!

JamSV gets 1 demerit for his “healthy game” what does that even mean?

A wild porkens appears. Just like in Juuni Taisen I reckon they should be the first one to be hammered (I am aware chronologically it wasn't boar but its the first we saw).

I can predict with very high accuracy that when someone comes in and the first thing they say is "I like to lolhammer, and memegambit", that they're going to ruin the game.

Not to mention "I skimmed this slot and was BLOWN AWAY to get a town BM" is utter BS LAMIST nonsense.
Once again my vote is no longer going to move.

Oh , AND jam didn’t answer my question. Afraid that’s another demerit.

Invalid due to inability to read. It's almost like what is in bold is the explanation. I'm not going to act like you're stupid enough to not understand it, but I'll just play along for now. It's almost as if, lolhammering and memegambits ruin games, would prevent the game being a "healthy game". I quoted your post not because of you saying you don't want to convince us that you're town, nor because 72 gets a cookie. So I wonder what part of your post, my post referred to. If one with 12 years of experience more than I have, can't link 2 posts together, then I'm thoroughly disappointed, unless if its out of sheer arrogance, which would disappoint me for different reasons.

If you intend on having a toxic attitude and ruining the game, there's very little I tell you to do, I was 6 yo when you joined the site, I can't see someone under 12 playing mafia either. Feel free to piece together the relevance of that.

PS - this part is for Clark. If you didn't like playing with Menalque, I have some bad news for you unfortunately.

WOW, you’ve got quite a chip on your shoulder. Does that usually serve you well?

Your explanation re: a healthy game went sailing right over my head, but now that you point it out, I get’cha.

Like this is so overboard aggressive I’m going to have to issue another demerit.

[Porkens]

Why do you want more input?

Incase it's not as town oriented as I think

And why are you concerned about whether advocating that I full claim be viewed as town oriented?

I'm not concerned about it being viewed as town oriented. I'm concerned that getting you to full claim is a mistake that will hurt town

Okedoke. Do YOU think it would hurt town?

[Porkens]

Why do you want more input?

Incase it's not as town oriented as I think

And why are you concerned about whether advocating that I full claim be viewed as town oriented?

I'm not concerned about it being viewed as town oriented. I'm concerned that getting you to full claim is a mistake that will hurt town

Okedoke. Do YOU think it would hurt town?

Actually, don’t answer that.

[Porkens]

Clark do you subscribe to the idea that shorter days are better for town?

[Porkens]

Porkens, you are welcome to claim if you'd like. Did you address your predecessor's false claim? What's your opinion on that? Out of curiosity. I was still in the womb when you joined this site, so your insights are like gold to me.

Ah! Flattery will get you everywhere how can I not answer?
I don’t....think I’m going to claim. Unless someone can present a strong protown case for me to do so.

And I’m not acknowledging whether it was a false claim or not.
I will say that LLs decision regarding his claim was a bad decision.

[Porkens]

Clark do you subscribe to the idea that shorter days are better for town?

It's all circumstantial of course. It seems logical that the longer a day goes on more information becomes available and better choices are made. On the other hand, if a slot is scummy then ending the day is the best choice. Why let things drag on?

If conversation grinds to a halt and no movement is possible or likely then fine end the day.

On the other hand, if there is activity and players are engaging, it only benefits the town to go on. They groundwork we do now will be fertile with associations and other information in later days.

This slot is scumread, and so scum want it to be hammered as soon as possible. They are desperate for me not to turn this wagon around. If I am hung I will flip town, and that will be the assumed motivation. so anyone who does hammer now is going to be suspect.

In short: don’t rush.

P. Edit oh lol I’m not even at H-1

[Porkens]

No it’s fine!

Anyway, reya, what do you think about the reasoning for the two votes on you?

[Porkens]

That’s fine I just want the chance to interact with everyone first.

[Porkens]

Just so I understand your question correctly, what line of thought are you asking about?

[Porkens]

Last question first; I believed you then thought LL was scummy.

Ok THAT post yes I skimmed that one quite liberally.

Your scumread of LL was based on his claim and attitude change around that same time. I like how you analyze bot the scum and town motivations and they don’t seem too far off. Let me ask you this about it though:

You said essentially that “As scum or town, LL claimed one order to “Shake off attention.” Can you explain how claiming a PR diverts attention away from oneself?

[Porkens]

I’m not going to spend any time or energy trying to defend LL’s play, evaluate his ISO, or trying to make a towncase of it. Like I said

i thought he was scum

. His decisions were his, and they were bad.

My job here is not to avoid getting hanged. It’s to help the town get information.

Re: your answer. I’m going to be pedantic here and ask you in a different way: in a vacuum, do you think claiming a PR shakes attention away from the claimant?

[Porkens]

Actually never mind on that question; I don’t think it’s important.

Let’s go at this in another way. What are your current thoughts on the counterwagons?

[Porkens]

Let’s go at this in another way. What are your current thoughts on the counterwagons?

How your slot flips will inform a lot of my thinking. I suspect 72 due to his position on LL's dick, where his votes have gone and why, and how he reacted to the claim by LL. Plus his lack of scum hunting. So why am I not voting for 72? Because I'm much less sure about him than you, and if you flip town then I would be forced to really re-evaluate my read on him.

I have a null read on Raya. I iso'd her and stuff, so you can go check that out at your leisure. In short I didn't like her push on LL at first, but she explained her reasoning well enough. LL said my change of heart with Raya occurred "magically" but I gave post links. If you flip scum then she would essentially be a town lock for me. If you flip town than I would look at that early push I didn't like again and follow up more with her.

In post 572, Porkens wrote:
My job here is not to avoid getting hanged. It’s to help the town get information.


And how would you say you've accomplished this since you've replaced in?

I guess I give myself a B-.

Let’s go at this in another way. What are your current thoughts on the counterwagons?

How your slot flips will inform a lot of my thinking. I suspect 72 due to his position on LL's dick, where his votes have gone and why, and how he reacted to the claim by LL. Plus his lack of scum hunting. So why am I not voting for 72? Because I'm much less sure about him than you, and if you flip town then I would be forced to really re-evaluate my read on him.

I have a null read on Raya. I iso'd her and stuff, so you can go check that out at your leisure. In short I didn't like her push on LL at first, but she explained her reasoning well enough. LL said my change of heart with Raya occurred "magically" but I gave post links. If you flip scum then she would essentially be a town lock for me. If you flip town than I would look at that early push I didn't like again and follow up more with her.

I was actually asking about the voters on those wagons rather than the targets of the wagons. Do you have any thoughts on 13/72 wagon on Raya or LQ/P wagon on 72?

[Porkens]

How do you feel about the composition of the counterwagon jam?

[Porkens]

Thirteenth, what would my hanging tell us about the game?

[Porkens]

Wrong tree BM, just letting you know work on a backup case

[Porkens]

Thirteenth, what would my hanging tell us about the game?

I've been looking at vote counts throughout the game. Jamsv has been the most firm on the LL wagon. Hasn't waivered from their stance. Raya agrees with LL early game on Blopp and then distanced by voting LL as the wagon started turning. Lickety was also pushing hard on LL and dropped a bit after the pr claim. Even with LL backtracking and dropping they have not returned to that wagon. Waiting on them now to further analyze. Meanwhile counterwagon was 72 who agreed with LL. An LL flip would be the strongest indicator of 72 this game. I am almost certain if LL is town than 72 is scum here. Does not work vice versa. Clark on your wagon just now felt extremely oppurtunistic, again more detail coming.

There's so much to learn from your flip.

And I don't want to give 100% away the tell (you can however meta me to find it.) But it's related to one of my (borrowed) rqs question and Clark gave a result with 100% scum rate. Obviously tools like that are just tools so Ive been trying to watch their game independently from it. If they flip scum that tool will be great for future games and if not Clark becomes the exception.

So which is more likely: LL town or 72 scum?

[Porkens]

Wrong tree BM, just letting you know work on a backup case

I thought, you didn't want to make us think you were town and that you were just here to scum hunt. This post seems like you've changed your mind.

I just want BM to keep an open mind as he reads through the game so that it’s not all wasted tunneling me. He’s got fresh eyes and I want him to be at least considering the idea that LL was town when he did all that crap.

[Porkens]

Why would 72 counterwagon away from LL if they know LL is town?

[Porkens]

It just boggles my mind that LL ended up claiming based on a scumread of three posts.

[Porkens]

You're fuckin twelve years old?

I lol'd and am TRing you for this joke.

That’s not a joke...

[Porkens]

Well shit, If I had remembered 467 I would have brought it up! There you go, that was my frame of mind. Looks like I followed through on what I said to boot.

So your issue is that I don't think that Porkens can effectively defend LL's actions? She has said so herself. Just because there is a replacement does not mean the slot is given a clean slate.

I remember some one saying something about benefit of the doubt something something

[Porkens]

Nobody tell him.

[Porkens]

Nobody tell him.

I thought there was an age restriction for this site?

There is.

[Porkens]

Huh, I thought there was. I know the registration page asks for your bday

[Porkens]

Are you SCUM tho?

[Porkens]

tu bi on est

[Porkens]

I don't have one. Just think you're reading too much into something that could have a non-game-related reason for occurring.

Thank you for your contribution to the game. Come back when you want to push the game forward.

What a total asshat, Jesus Christ.

[Porkens]

Riddle me this: why did 76 vote for bloop?

[Porkens]

UNVOTE: 72
VOTE: Blopp

Why the change of vote?
Same question for 72

23 - dat smiley face --- bad overly friendly/buddy-buddy vibe.
LAMIST - "Lets move out of RVS" with 0 game-related content

Cause this is trash.

[Porkens]

UNVOTE: 72
VOTE: Blopp

Why the change of vote?
Same question for 72

23 - dat smiley face --- bad overly friendly/buddy-buddy vibe.
LAMIST - "Lets move out of RVS" with 0 game-related content

Have your thoughts on Blopp changed at all?

No. Why do you ask?

This after brushing off questions about early page reads

[Porkens]

UNVOTE:
I don't want a quick hammer. L-2 is plenty for pressure. Scumlean on Lucky for not removing his vote. Could be hoping for that quickhammer

Is he your only scumlean or do you have more?

It's page 3. What are you expecting?

Valid point but obviously he had multiple leans. Do you feel they were forced 72? Like he felt pressured to answer so he did?

Yes. Names 2 and a half scumleans in 69 feels like a blurted out response.

By 181 Raya has 4 townleans/reads, which feels like way too many from a town PoV at this stage of the game.

The Homura townread is the sort of read I make as scum on my scumbuddy. "Similar thoughts to myself" --> its the sort of statement, which you cant really test the veracity of.

Dumps me in as a null, still doesnt explain how my actions further scum agenda, or why someone of a scum mindset makes aforementioned plays.
If genuinely believes that my RQS is active lurking filler, then why am I not a scumread?

If I was to take a stab at the game solve, I would say Raya + Homura purely off that reads list.

72's case on Blopp: Agreeing with Lucky. 26
Now take a look at what I made bold in his quote. Huh. Spooky coincidence.

This is a good post.

[Porkens]

Clark, you up for a little game?

[Porkens]

I’ll take that as a yes. Tell me what you think of this readslist:


Looker replaced Homura: Lurky as fuck. How can I read this?
Battle Mage replaced Blopp: bloop was zero entity, BM is just filling space
72offsuit: scummy as shit, should be lynched today
JamSV replaced individual: arrogant annoying but town
TheThirteenthJT: ehhhh town I guess talks a lot isn’t obviously bad
ClarkBar: town ish I guess
LicketyQuickety (SE) replaced EchoVision: durrrr not too much scumtelling but I dunno
Raya36 (SE) : kinda sheepy? Leaaaaaaanscum
Porkens (SE) replaced LuckyLuciano: total town hero


P. Edit beetlejuice!

Why did you vote for bloop?

[Porkens]

Trying to add a little butter to the Jam eh? If you compliment his "tone" then he's sure to unvote you.

Lol no that dude is going to ride my wagon right off the cliff I’m not even going to try to convince him

[Porkens]

I went back to analyze the Blopp flake and it's so bizarre. I can see newbie players leaving for a bit and returning to see 4 votes on then as a bit overwhelming but I felt the pressure up to the point they removed their avatar was not that high. I've seen (and done so myself) people drilled early game as newbies which would cause enough frustration for a rage quit. This early wagon was rather tame. But at the same time why return at all to remove your avatar? Clearly no intention of returning and thus rage quit possibility over just not returning/forgetting about the site.

So here's the final scenario I have in my head. Blopp comes back because they remember they are in a mafia game, see 4 votes on them, says screw this, removes avatar and leaves forever.

Ye, pretty much this ^

“Like”. What even is this post?

[Porkens]

Let’s go at this in another way. What are your current thoughts on the counterwagons?

How your slot flips will inform a lot of my thinking. I suspect 72 due to his position on LL's dick, where his votes have gone and why, and how he reacted to the claim by LL. Plus his lack of scum hunting. So why am I not voting for 72? Because I'm much less sure about him than you, and if you flip town then I would be forced to really re-evaluate my read on him.

I have a null read on Raya. I iso'd her and stuff, so you can go check that out at your leisure. In short I didn't like her push on LL at first, but she explained her reasoning well enough. LL said my change of heart with Raya occurred "magically" but I gave post links. If you flip scum then she would essentially be a town lock for me. If you flip town than I would look at that early push I didn't like again and follow up more with her.

Lack of scumhunting? Lol...

Show me where you considered yourself scumhunting?

[Porkens]

What’s the scummiest thing about quick in your opinion?

[Porkens]

You are townreading me for scumreading someone who townreads him? Am I following that correctly?

[Porkens]

I can't follow the BM vote. I hated the entrance to the game. I hated the music video posts. I hated using meta as a push against LL and 72 (I know those are my top cum reads) but whatever. I guess it's not one thing. But I'm not moving off you.

You think those were scummy? Why?
P.edit no that was to 72

[Porkens]

If I'm not mistaking, that's 4 votes. I have a TPR. Let's move on.

Like, if you are mason with 72, just say so. If you are that would make sense. But it's not really my fault I caught 72 lying about your meta and thought he was Scum for it.

Anyways, if you ARE masons with 72, which I would say is about 50/50 at this point, then I would look at Raya36 for the blatant buddy attempt as well as Thirteen for them affirming LL's meta and budying me. I DON'T think Blopp flaking is actually AI.

Oh that ROLEFISHING tho

[Porkens]

If I'm not mistaking, that's 4 votes. I have a TPR. Let's move on.

Like, if you are mason with 72, just say so. If you are that would make sense. But it's not really my fault I caught 72 lying about your meta and thought he was Scum for it.

Anyways, if you ARE masons with 72, which I would say is about 50/50 at this point, then I would look at Raya36 for the blatant buddy attempt as well as Thirteen for them affirming LL's meta and budying me. I DON'T think Blopp flaking is actually AI.

UNVOTE:

To give Town a moment to process what just happened.

Going to vote it.

VOTE: TheThirteenthJT

So you are advocating eliminating a claimed power role day 1 when, in claiming, my slot because self-resolving as the game goes on anyway?

No, I'm claiming my case is rock solid and you claiming PR doesn't dissuade me at all given that is exactly what you would do if you were Scum. Like, what is my incentive to believe you are telling the truth about being TPR?

I don’t understand this progression at all

[Porkens]

It just boggles my mind that LL ended up claiming based on a scumread of three posts.

Porkens.
Read into the relationship between LL and Quick.
LL replaced oit of the previous game he was involved with quick. It was clear to me he was cbf with this game.

LL is not a rage quitter. He is also not a sore loser. I dont see !scumLL replacing out and screwing over his replcement with his fake claim.

I’m not at all sure what you are trying to convince me of here

[Porkens]

Clark tell me what’s up with reya.

72, where did you push scummy slots can you quote it or something?

[Porkens]

Hi BM!

Again I want to say how sorry I am for letting myself almost get replaced. I was whiny in the beginning of the game about the slow place, and so of course it would be me to then contribute to the problem. I work on weekends, and with the holiday and some other life stuff I got completely wrecked. I do virtually nothing during the week, so my posting will be a lot more consistent.

I'll say this regarding much of what I've read in the last few pages: I am not going to go read a past game to see how players behaved in it. I have said (and still believe) that behavior/activity levels being different in one game to another is something I think is noteworthy and could be AI. So I'm not dismissing that as a reasonable motive to vote for somebody. But, unless something very clear is brought to my attention then I don't think I'm going to hop on a wagon because of meta.

I don't have a problem with LL's reasoning for voting Blopp even if it is kind of a reach. I can follow the reasoning and don't necessarily disagree. I do fear quick hammers, but that fear shouldn't stop a player from having some L-1 pressure. I also buy LL's claim for now. I feel uncomfortable giving town-reads, but LL is a town lean for me.

My vote on Homura stands and I guess we'll see if there is a replacement or if Homura returns. Obviously I can't point any fingers regarding activity levels, but it's the lack of trying to engage other players in a meaningful way that bothers me. Half-heartedly sharing opinions and having only one vote that was in the RVS and not even a random reason given bugs me.

I'll keep looking at stuff and see if I can't get some questions goings. I'm also happy to answer any questions, in fact that might help me in figuring out my own feelings on some things.

This post
Is a very scummy post

[Porkens]

Hi BM!

Again I want to say how sorry I am for letting myself almost get replaced. I was whiny in the beginning of the game about the slow place, and so of course it would be me to then contribute to the problem. I work on weekends, and with the holiday and some other life stuff I got completely wrecked. I do virtually nothing during the week, so my posting will be a lot more consistent.

I'll say this regarding much of what I've read in the last few pages: I am not going to go read a past game to see how players behaved in it. I have said (and still believe) that behavior/activity levels being different in one game to another is something I think is noteworthy and could be AI. So I'm not dismissing that as a reasonable motive to vote for somebody. But, unless something very clear is brought to my attention then I don't think I'm going to hop on a wagon because of meta.

I don't have a problem with LL's reasoning for voting Blopp even if it is kind of a reach. I can follow the reasoning and don't necessarily disagree. I do fear quick hammers, but that fear shouldn't stop a player from having some L-1 pressure. I also buy LL's claim for now. I feel uncomfortable giving town-reads, but LL is a town lean for me.

My vote on Homura stands and I guess we'll see if there is a replacement or if Homura returns. Obviously I can't point any fingers regarding activity levels, but it's the lack of trying to engage other players in a meaningful way that bothers me. Half-heartedly sharing opinions and having only one vote that was in the RVS and not even a random reason given bugs me.

I'll keep looking at stuff and see if I can't get some questions goings. I'm also happy to answer any questions, in fact that might help me in figuring out my own feelings on some things.

So you believe LLs claim but he is only a town lean?

And I agree on your Homura point but it's not strong enough for it to be my leading case. Could you ISo Raya and let me know how you feel about them.

This is a for fun question and part of my experimental ways of playing.(I know we are out of rqs and wifom and not aftual scumhunting blah blah blah. Just let me be me.) If you were town who is your scum team at this point, and if you were mafia who would your partner be? Please answer both sides and just have fun with the answers. I don't have any day to back anything up but I have theories so this will help me improve as a player. Anyone else is free to answer this as well.

This is a good post about a bad post!

[Porkens]

He's mafia, my vote is no longer random.

Agreed.

VOTE: Blopp

That’s not what you said here.

[Porkens]

LL is also a lot less wordy as Town. I am assuming this pattern holds based on how I would assume LL would play as Scum given prior experience playing with them. This is not strictly a "meta read" but rather a personality trait narrative read. There's a diff but I don't really feel like explaining rn.

Quick was this true or was it bullshit?

[Porkens]

So you thought she was scum or not?

[Porkens]

I like BMs take on Reya

[Porkens]

Aight moving on then.

[Porkens]

Is it fair to say 80% of that it focused on your reya read and/or defending yourself?

[Porkens]

Yeah spoilers can only be one deep

[Porkens]

You saying I'm not scum-hunting is a gross misrepresentation of my effort in this game.

I didn’t say you weren’t scumhunting

[Porkens]

I’m just being difficult, thanks for playing along.

I’m about ten pages from the end of my second readthrough, and I’ll post an adjusted readslist

[Porkens]

72, did you read my summation of my feelings about you? Why were you on a wagon for a player and then later say the wagon was garbage? I need more from you regarding your read on Raya. Why do you consistently apologize for LL? Seems to me you find LL to be totally town, so how can you simultaneously dislike the Blopp wagon and yet find BM scummy and the LL slot town?

What prompted you to ask this question?

Because you've stated your disdain for the Blopp wagon despite being briefly on it and dismissing criticisms of its primary architect. BM is in that slot now, and BM is scummy to you. What impact does this have for you in terms of the Blopp wagon?


428 is the scummiest post of the game? Do tell! I'm a big dummy and can miss the obvious.

Clark, can you show me where 72 calls the bloop wagon garbage?

[Porkens]

Hey looker,

I’m as caught up as I’m gunna be. I read through last night after my initial post and before my last.

No not omgus at all, like I said I thought this slot was scum too. I give a smaaaaaal amount of weight to the blooper avatar theory and you haven’t posted much for me to read you. So the needle hasn’t moved much.

I got confused about who replaced who here. I thought looker replaced bloop when I made this post.

[Porkens]

Independent Reads (not based on possible pairings)

Town

TheThirteenthJT
JamSV
ClarkBar
Looker

To be determined

Lickety Quickety
72offsuit

Scum

Raya36
LuckyLuciano

My townbloc is strong, so should be able to move faster now!

How can you possibly have such a strong townread on looker right now?

[Porkens]

Ok sorry about contributing to 10 pages today. I just finished my secodnnd read through and here’s my new spicy take:

Reya is ropebait and scum are setting up to mishang her.

El Town:
JamSV replaced individual
ClarkBar
LicketyQuickety (SE) replaced EchoVision
Raya36 (SE)
Porkens (SE) replaced LuckyLuciano

Scum are in:
Looker replaced Homura
72offsuit
Battle Mage replaced Blopp
TheThirteenthJT

(Now there is an alternate universe where Echo was scum with Blooper but that’s pretty tinfoil)

Anyway, could be shit, but there you have it.

VOTE: TheThirteenthJT

[Porkens]

What would be the best move as town?

[Porkens]

What would be the best move as town?

Execute you.

I unvoted you because of your comment on Raya. It was indeed spicy. I've struggled with that slot and you pretty much exactly summed up one of my fears regarding it. Also, I didn't want you at E-1 while I slept.

Now that I'm awake and sober (albeit hungover) I don't see that as a super worthwhile avenue to pursue. At least not right now.

Intent to hammer. I'll abide by BM's request for him to catch up.

If you are going to answer a question that was directed at someone else, you could at least do so in good faith. What is MY best move replacing into this game as town?

[Porkens]

Towniest
TheThirteenthJT
JamSV
Raya36
72offsuit
ClarkBar
Looker
Lickety Quickety
Porkens
Scummiest

Convinced the scumpair is Lickety Quickety and Porkens. Reads subject to change depending on flips, but that's where I am now.

Grateful if, before going to night, people can give comments on Quick, in particular his progression on LL which I highlighted in post 789 (noting that now he claims LL is null).

You are so full of it BM Your entire catchup is spewing noise, and you should be hanged tomorrow when I flip town.

I’m the most dangerous role to scum in this setup.
Vanilla Town.

VOTE: Battlemage

[Porkens]

Town wants me to claim so I did.

[Porkens]

Spoiler:

Lucky and blopp. Maybe Clark but I'm unsure

Where's your vote then?

My vote is "on" Blopp I just don't want him at L-1

Perhaps it is a coincidence, but since being wagoned, Blopp has removed their profile pic. That means they have been onsite and decided not to post. So now we have her ignoring the initial wagon that I started with 72o, despite posting after it began and ignoring my case. In addition, we have her logging on to remove her profile pic and still not posting. Feels a lot like giving up to me.

This is a bad case and very reachy.

Also can you all look back at my two questions (rqs) I asked. I really want to know the answer for the first one.

I'll do this in my next post.

UNVOTE:
I don't want a quick hammer. L-2 is plenty for pressure. Scumlean on Lucky for not removing his vote. Could be hoping for that quickhammer

Is he your only scumlean or do you have more?

Lucky and blopp. Maybe Clark but I'm unsure

"I scumlean Lucky for possibly wanting a quick hammer on my other scumlean."

For the record, I'm expecting Blopp not to post again until the slot is replaced, and if the slot claims VT I will be pushing for the slot to be eliminated.

Just because I scumlean him doesnt mean I'm right (I never take associations into account D1. I often have multiple scumread that don't work together). And its perfectly viable to be concerned about someone not removing their vote at L-1 when Blopp hasn't even talked yet.

Actually since I can't vote Blopp right now VOTE: Lucky. I think this is more likely anyway. Your stats case also was reachy and the whole basis of your scumread isn't concrete. I would accept your case if and only if it was supporting evidence of a much stronger and more viable case.

Isn't most Day 1 early cases reachy? I really hate this argument
Also I see you join The Luciano wagon after I printed you to vote and someone else joined before you. I don't like this. I could argue myself that your case on him is reachy but again my case is reachy here no? Finally your case is more repreat what was already aid to give you a reason to join the wagon. While not Al we always scum indicative it's a good start.

Once I catch up my read here I will chiose where my vote goes but you are definitely setting off alarms.

I broadly agree with this take.

So I'm not super into this game yet so I'm gonna make a readslist to orient myself.

Town:

JamSV - Town, tonal/reasoning, 56 was bad town play imo. Scum wouldn't be so obvious if this was an attempt at a quick hammer though I think.

ClarkBar - I think Clark is overeager town on a reread. This is consistent with their RVS play. I no longer find defending Blopp to be scummy since the eagerness is consistent. His responses to my questioning about this sounds genuine too.

Homura - Townlean, I like the stance taken on Lucky and it's very similar thoughts to my own.

TheThirteenthJT - Slight townlean. 58 are you suggesting Jam and Clark are partners? What is your read on Clark? I believe your vote is still there.

Null:

LicketyQuickety - Null, need to hear more.

72offsuit - Null. I actually scumread RQS a bit (but very weakly), I don't find it works or does any good and responses tend to lead only to unrelated debate. It muddies the thread. Also why start RQS then refuse to answer and say it won't help find alignment? What is your read on Lucky?

Blopp - Scumlean/null for lack of content. I want to hear from her or a replacement.

Scum:

LuckyLuciano - Scum, didn't remove vote at L-1, reachy case on Blopp (had a greeting in their first post, LAMIST post (23) but I heavily disagree. How is 23 any different than the RQS questions and how could she be using it to try to look town or helpful?, saying that they came online to remove their profile pic but didn't post so must be given up scum). It seems like he's trying to make a case out of nothing. It also seems like he's trying to set up a lynch to for sure be Blopp (stating that if he gets replaced and they claim VT he'll push for their lynch, not seeming particularly interested in hearing from the replacement). It's always best to hear from the replacement of a sus player. I don't like the statistics analysis too. Usually when I see stuff like this I take it as busy work. It's not a strong case, there's lots of variables, it muddied up the thread and made the game less readable for me at least. A question for you Lucky, why can't newbtown get frustrated and quit when a wagon is formed on them? Why must Blopp be scum for this?

A good readslist. Smart town or informed scum? Only 1 scumread though, and largest wagon at this point, so not going out on much of a limb. Although she hasn't given herself much room for manoerve either. Gut feeling still Raya-scum, has felt awkwardly out of step with rest of the play to this point.

@JamSV, why did you put Blopp at L-1 and proceed to tell players to feel free to hammer and state that you see quickhammers as NAI?

A quickhammer can be seen as NAI as it could just be a really bad misunderstanding leading to a bad play. Which is why I believe a quickhammer without an explanation is scum indicative, but one with (on its own) is NAI.

I put him on L-1 to see how he would react. Nobody would express intent to hammer so my proceeding post was to in force that a extra bit of pressure. I have faith nobody would come in and swoop to quick hammer, considering we had all already posted (excluding Echovision), and we could all easily see how close he is to getting hammered. I will admit, I really didn't expect him to "leave" if we can class that as what he is doing. Plus that type of play is good for moving more out of the RVS, and it can apply simple pressure to see just how easily somebody would actually fold.

- If you were wondering if I have a bit too much faith in people, I probably do.

Quick hammers are a difficult subject to assess. In my first game I delivered a naked quickhammer as town. I was a town mason and we had our reasons for it. In the end all quickhammers have reasons even if not explained and do follow an agenda so they are touchy subjects for me. No we maybe a quickhammers earlier in the day umpromted may be a case for scum but have not encountered that situation yet. Most come towards the end of the day phase.

Now I do find it interesting you placed Blopp at e-1 and didn't really get called out much for it. Instead Raya unvoted and Luciano got scumleaned for not doing do as well. I don't believe you had I'll intentions and neither did Luciano. Raya comes away again as most suspicious and a bit LAMIST for his unvote.

That's a very good point about Raya not calling out Jam - I missed that one! Would Raya have been tunnelling her partner this early? Although a scumlean is only a warning shot I guess...

And you're preaching to the converted on quickhammers!

You can take a look at my meta if you want 72. 4 townleans/reads early game is not unusual for me. multiple scumleans isn't either. And I'm sure you can find reads similar to my read on Homura too.

You're not scumread because my RQS statement is very weak and can only be used as a statement to back up a stronger case.

Don't like this in isolation, and had a similar comment towards Lucky earlier. Comes across as if the cases would be artificial rather than legitimate (i'll only commit to a scumread once I think my case will stand up to scrutiny). Unlikely Raya-72 scumpair?

TheThirteenthJT - Slight townlean. 58 are you suggesting Jam and Clark are partners? What is your read on Clark? I believe your vote is still there.

Yes partially. I was also suggesting that scum are the only ones that truly know everyone's alignment. So Clark is an interesting read for me and would like to expand on this later. He actually failed a test earlier and it looks bad for him but his play has indicated town for me. I will be keeping a good look at him throughout the game but it's currently Not enough for me to keep my vote on him currently.

So after my reread my vote will most comfortably be here

UNVOTE: clark
VOTE: raya36

I'm interested in what this failed test is

me too. Hey TTJT - what was the test?

Read that post from the lens of a reya misshang

[Porkens]

El Town:
JamSV replaced individual
ClarkBar
LicketyQuickety (SE) replaced EchoVision
Raya36 (SE)
Porkens (SE) replaced LuckyLuciano

Scum are in:
Looker replaced Homura
72offsuit

Battle Mage replaced Blopp
TheThirteenthJT

Top list hangs the bottom list. Start with the bold.

[Porkens]

The desperation for this lynch to go through is palpable. Remember this page.

[Porkens]

The desperation for this lynch to go through is palpable. Remember this page.

Maybe next game, don't start off with exclaiming you like memegambits and lolhammers, which only seek to harm town, you'd get at least a bit of benefit of the doubt due to being a replacement that way.

This really looks like you know I’m town.

[Porkens]

13; reconcile 840 with 843

@Jam: reevaluate yourself assumptions.

HANG BM TOMORROW

[Porkens]

P edit rofl

[Porkens]

I’m somewhat on the fence with Clark. His posting doesn’t seem contrived, but some of it is kinda bad. I mean maybe I’m underestimating him. Did you case him I can’t remember

[Porkens]

I don’t really think there is broad support for a flash wagon. Reya yes, but Clark I think would get 3-4 votes tops. Could be wrong

[Porkens]

Jam I can’t tell if this level 2 or level 3 but either way I approve so don’t stress it

[Porkens]

How could possibly answer that? He didn’t leave me any notes on his thought process other than what you see in his posts

[Porkens]

Porkens has been on the fence for hammering this slot for a while now and a few times looked to be close. You never called it out then but why now?

This is very weird especially for me because I do scumlean Clark more than Porkens.

So you were encouraging the player you scumread more than me to hammer me?

[Porkens]

I’m somewhat on the fence with Clark. His posting doesn’t seem contrived,

but some of it is kinda bad

. I mean maybe I’m underestimating him. Did you case him I can’t remember

You're probably estimating just fine. I really shouldn't drink and post, I tend to not take things as seriously and can be unclear in what I'm trying to say.

Nonsense your drunk posts were some of your best

[Porkens]

You think Clark is scummier than me but you aren’t voting for Clark

[Porkens]

Somebody else get on the Porkens wagon

The difficulty to get this through should be telling enough

Stop you are going to make yourself look scummy and then they will get you tomorrow.

[Porkens]

Somebody else get on the Porkens wagon

The difficulty to get this through should be telling enough

Stop you are going to make yourself look scummy and then they will get you tomorrow.

I won't look scummy when you flip scum

No, in that case I’d agree. I don’t think you’d bus a parter like this. I guess I could be wrong about that though. Sadly not going to work out that way.

[Porkens]

Porkens has been on the fence for hammering this slot for a while now and a few times looked to be close. You never called it out then but why now?

This is very weird especially for me because I do scumlean Clark more than Porkens.

VOTE: porkens

You arent looking at my point here.

I've been 100% on scum voting when they've been elimnated. Hammered both times lol. I really want to continue my stream (maybe not hammering this time.)

[Porkens]

VOTE: Porkens
Stole it

This is so bad.

I still think this is town, but a policy hanging is not out of order.

[Porkens]

I've allowed everyone to say their peace now. Jamsv you put yourself in a bad spot here at the end. You were my top town read for not waiverinf your stance.

already knows

I’m going to flip town.

[Porkens]

I’m back at Starting with 13th tomorrow.

[Porkens]

I'm 50/50 about you Porkens in all honesty. I see both sides of your potential flip and I'm not denying it.

WOW a 50/50 huh?
Yeah ok scum, You are already back peddling. really hope the town doesn’t let you get away with this, that’s all I can say at this point.

[Porkens]

Jamsv and Porkens twam anyone?

not in a million years are they doing that as scumbuddies. it'd be borderline rulebreach for playing against your wincon

Get an avatar, scum.

[Porkens]

Porkens if you read my play this day you will know I have not been the enemy to your slot as town. If you are I did my best to give you the benefit of the doubt but this train was unavoidable

You
Know
I’m
Town

[Porkens]

Porkens if you read my play this day you will know I have not been the enemy to your slot as town. If you are I did my best to give you the benefit of the doubt but this train was unavoidable

he's scum dude

You better bus the shit out of him tomorrow.

[Porkens]

OH BEFORE I GO A COUPLE NOTES FROM YOUR SE:

1. don’t talk about replacements. It’s literally against the rules.
2. Don’t use sexual terms like “get off his dick” in negative ways. It’s homophobic and shaming. And it creates a hostile environment, to boot.
3. Stop being such assholes to each other. It’s a game, it’s supposed to be fun for everyone. Tilting people by making them feel bad and putting them down is not going to help you in the long run.
4. Wifom is real.
5. Meta is real.
6. Play to the game you are in, but always keep the NEXT game in mind too.
7. Think about how your words and actions will effect the gamestate days down the line.
8. Never self hammer as town.
9. Take care of yourself.
10. Black Lives Matter

11. Make sure you hang 13 tomorrow, then BM.

P. Edit the only thing I did today was claim VT. I never hinted that I was a PR, in fact I pointedly said I would not comment on the claim other than it was bad. You are misrepresenting me.

[Porkens]

I was wrong about Porkens and Jam robbed me of the hammer. What a brutal fucking day.

You were wrong about Porkens?

[Porkens]

I didn’t retract his retraction.

[Porkens]

Quote it or admit you are a lying liar

[Porkens]

No problem

I didn’t read too closely after being eliminated, but it seems you all had fun. Probs to BM for having the energy to spew all those words as scum.

[Porkens]

I’d like to give a shoutout to those of you who rose above the toxicity of the early game and encourage everyone to try to avoid personal insults. You certainly can win through toxicity, but it takes away a lot of the fun.

[Porkens]

Yeah, presentation is everything. You have to be able to play the politics as well as the reading part of the game to win.