Smuggler's Port [Game Over]

[Titus]

Ship Copper

Already with the antitown noise I see.

Execute: Alisae

Hi

[Titus]

The second wincondition for scum makes this harder to solve.

We basically pick a pool day 1, investigate that result N1

If positive for tea, we execute in that pool hoping the daughter isn't in it. We then investigate new people and repeat.

If we get no tea, that's a shit load of conftown but a crap ton of scum endgame information.

[Titus]

Oh, everyone's shipping Linen by default. Boring.

Ship: Wheat

Hey, I am shipping Copper or am I a nobody now?

[Titus]

Get off your copper high horse, Titus. Wheat is superior in every way. What you going to do when the war comes and food runs low, huh? I'll be here with my delicious wheat while you can try munching down on your precious copper.

I take my copper blade, stab you, and then use it to harvest wheat.

[Titus]

Get off your copper high horse, Titus. Wheat is superior in every way. What you going to do when the war comes and food runs low, huh? I'll be here with my delicious wheat while you can try munching down on your precious copper.

I take my copper blade, stab you, and then use it to harvest wheat.

Nah, no way you're getting to me if I'm surrounded by all this wheat. It's like a full body armor suit.

If you have that much, I just harvest your armor.

[Titus]

I think we want to check like 3 or 4 people we think are not Tomboy Daughters. Getting clears on everyone in the inspection is more valuable than getting a Tea result.

This strategy is extremely risky just as it is valuable. If we mess up even once we're doomed. Plus, the fact scum have lower number is actually an advantage in a setup like this. I don't know if betting the game on 3/4 clear every day is a good idea. Maybe for day 1, but that's it.

Realistically, we have to stop investigating after 1 clear set if we go that way imo. If we hit a second clear set, scum would find the TD.

[Titus]

That's a good point from Titus. Do we check the scummiest 2 people then and try and hit scum?

No, the strategy is we vote Titus today.

Why? I don't recall ever playing with you, so this "strategy" vote/tunnel feels weird and out of place.

[Titus]

Okay so this is a fakegod setup which means there's slim to no chance of finding a breaking strategy


I'm usually the first to object to denying tribute to the blood gods on day one but what if we no-execute and send out shipments / shipment check And work off that on day 2?

Reduces our risk of outting / killing the tomboy on day one. There's no night kill, and then we have a jumping off point tomorrow.

We have a jumping off point now. Unilaterally forgoing a lynch is bad.

Execute: username

[Titus]

If at end of Day 5, there are at least 2 Smugglers alive, then Smugglers win.

Disregard my last post, I'm illiterate

Unvote:username

[Titus]

Why would the vote make more sense if maxwell was someone who was familiar with you and vice versa?

Early voters on me are usually pressure voters, not tunnelers/serious. I'm not a lead taker day 1. Pressuring me though is an excellent way to get me going and sorting the slots around me.

I am half wondering whether he was told I was weak day 1 and a safe place to push to eliminate me before I hit the point where I take off.

[Titus]

If anyone would like to know if I am scumreading them, I would request that they ask in the form of the question: “is it me, Jesus?” while quoting the post where I said I was scumreading exactly one (1) person

That number may now be a soft two (2)

Let's pretend I understand this here.

Where's the newbie queue Melanque? He's more readable. Did I spell it right?

[Titus]

Who do you think would know this and have told him?

90% of the thread. It's a common tell that I am wagoned d1 frequently. If not, I am usually checked. I have played with over 3/4 of the playerlist before any alt shenanigans.

[Titus]

Tomboy Daughter Reads

Maki Harukawa

- Classic Donnie is at it again. She's overcompensating here and trying to say she has nothing to fear if scum want to check her meta.

username

- He knows about the ToDa wincon but not this one? For most it'd be the other way around. Very daughterly.

Titus

- Look through her ISO. She hasn't even mentioned the Daughter once. She's terrified of talking about her because she

is

her.

-----------------

maxwell

- He agreed with my early strat of putting people we think are town on the checks to get clears. That's a terrible strat and outs Tommy, so he's never Tomboy here.

Hel

- She just seems so oblivious and lost, and she even said she wasn't ToDa. I don't think she'd lie if she was actually the Daughter.

why would you post this

he doesn't know pepelaugh

I checked mine and it's not even accurate sooo

[Titus]

Tomboy Daughter Reads

Maki Harukawa

- Classic Donnie is at it again. She's overcompensating here and trying to say she has nothing to fear if scum want to check her meta.

username

- He knows about the ToDa wincon but not this one? For most it'd be the other way around. Very daughterly.

Titus

- Look through her ISO. She hasn't even mentioned the Daughter once. She's terrified of talking about her because she

is

her.

-----------------

maxwell

- He agreed with my early strat of putting people we think are town on the checks to get clears. That's a terrible strat and outs Tommy, so he's never Tomboy here.

Hel

- She just seems so oblivious and lost, and she even said she wasn't ToDa. I don't think she'd lie if she was actually the Daughter.

Give me one town reason why you'd post this or I'm going to assume it was meant for the scum PT

Hel has himself in his readswall. I think it's a joke.

[Titus]

Yuck.

[Titus]

oh please casual swearing is not hostility


Like that's a zero on a scale of zero to ten on the hostility scale come on now

It wasn't a yuck based on swearing. I curse too.

It's a yuck based on how dismissive you were about Hel solely because he posted the argument.

[Titus]

Execute Username

Overly serious replies to joke posts. Scum usually cannot detect humor. Ergo likely scum.

I will always and forever, regardless of alignment or even in MD, have nothing but contempt from the very bowels of the most ragefilled hell for "shitposting meta" in games

And I say that as someone who spent the last thirteen years playing a character

But you know, I'm trying to not pull my posts from that colostomy bag ridden, ragefilled hell, and that's why this entity exists in this vessel.

My sympathies. I never understood shit posting either. I feel for you but that doesn't tell me your alignment. All I get from you are feelings of sympathy not feelings of alignment. I want those.

Bring us away from the shit oh janitor.

[Titus]

If I had to have a townbloc around now it would probably be
{Norwee, Hel, GL, Maki, Moment, Titus}

I could work with this. Not sure about GL but I don't have a scumread there either. It's got solid emotional, logic, shitposting. It lacks a stronger leader but maybe I can after RL fades.

[Titus]

If I had to have a townbloc around now it would probably be
{Norwee, Hel, GL, Maki, Moment, Titus}

I could work with this. Not sure about GL but I don't have a scumread there either. It's got solid emotional, logic, shitposting. It lacks a stronger leader but maybe I can after RL fades.

I have GL confidently labelled as town.
His first post was pretty good and his Datisi read feels like its coming from town

I need more time with GL. GL is too much of a logic player for me to confident with. Doesn't mean you can't be. You read tone better than I do.

If I get no progress with shoring up scumreads, I might just sheep onto Datisi to see what happens.

[Titus]

I think GL and ali are both scum, or if not I think there is likely one scum in there

This made me go back and read GuiltyLion, and I have to agree, I'm not sure what in his first post is worthy of a townread and his push on Datisi doesn't seem legitimate, it's all references to "feels" but no direct quotes or anything of the like, so vague it can't really be counter-argued.

A feeling of this sense is a gut level read. It shouldn't be given much credence but it's better than nothing. This level of read is fine early day 1. There's not much to go off of.

[Titus]

VoteCount 1.6

Titus [1] - maxwell
Iconeum [1] - Datisi
Umlaut [1] - Not Known 15
NorwegianboyEE [3] - Hel, Moment, Maki Harukawa
Datisi [1] - GuiltyLion
username [1] - NorwegianboyEE
Alisae [1] - Menalque
Not Known 15 [1] - Umlaut
Menalque [1] - Radical Rat
notscience [1] - username

Not Voting [5]

- Something_Smart, Iconeum, Titus, Alisae, notscience

With 17 alive it takes 9 votes to be executed.

Countdown to deadline: (expired on 2020-07-11 13:35:31)

I am shipping...

Linen

[10] - Alisae, Maki Harukawa, GuiltyLion, Something_Smart, Not Known 15, maxwell, Menalque, Iconeum, , notscience, Umlaut

Copper

[4] - Titus, NorwegianboyEE, username, Radical Rat

Wheat

[3] - Datisi, Hel, Moment

Let's Inspect...

Linen

[1] - Radical Rat

Copper

[2] - Hel, Moment

Wheat

[2] - Umlaut, NorwegianboyEE

I don't like EE being wagoned here. He's not defensive enough to be scum IMO. It's a meta read which is blah but it's better than most anything else on day 1.

Back to catchup.

[Titus]

oh boy I sure do love being forced to do what other people want

This is what I tried to avoid in T v A. Given no NK, I am not sure why NK outs here as PA. I doubt he is scum, I just doubt the wisdom of it.

[Titus]

To avoid anyone actually hammering the tomboy daughter

But basically yes. We have two full wagons per day that both hit “lynch” then NK gets to choose between them to make sure that if one is on the TD they don’t get lynched

This is a bad idea on so many levels. I'll get into it later on after I finish my catchup.

[Titus]

Ok. The PA claiming here (which I suppose is real, otherwise the real one would CC and we net a scum) is not a good thing for town in the long run. Townreads now must self sensor. It's not enough just to suspect someone is scum but that read must also get past NK15 gatekeeping.

This would be ok if NK 15 only had to block one lynch but he cannot do that without screaming someone is the TD.

So we're left with halfbaked plans of trying to force two wagons on day 1 just to have disagreement to cover NK's tracks.


All of this interrupts innate scumhunting. It also makes VCA meaningless. Why would anyone feel threatened before a second wagon unless NK explicitly endorses it is ok?

[Titus]

Read Menalque's plan again, Titus. We play normally with the only difference being replacing the L-1 and hammer votes with HURT: votes. Once we've "lynched" two people, we let the shipmaster (Not Known 15) decide on who we really lynch of the two.

This is actually preferable to playing normally and accidentally wagoning and driving a lynch on the Tomboy Daughter, because that would be an autoloss then if the shipmaster mysteriously decided to out and veto that lynch suddenly.

Oh, wait, I just realised the Tomboy Daughter could technically claim shipmaster if driven to L-1 and that would be fine too, but it still gives scum a 50/50 on that person if it happens.

I disagree because now NK 15's reads are placed above that of town. What if NK 15 gets agency captured?

This is a common gripe with unkillable town. Scum know exactly where they need to play around.

This same problem made T v A immensely hard for me and I didn't have to force town into wagoning two people at all.

[Titus]

So only three of you know who I am? Interesting given this is a public alt. I don't know how this affects my reads. I'll have to think about it.

Execute Mena

I know. I just am sitting on it. Meta is weak anyway. If that factors in at all, you should know that.

[Titus]

I wish Alisae and Mena would hush for a day. They have 2/5th of the games posts and it's quite annoying to read. Although I am voting Mena so that should help.

I specifically want Ali to comment on the problem I see with NK claiming early and how it screws up town dynamics.

[Titus]

I specifically want Ali to comment on the problem I see with NK claiming early and how it screws up town dynamics.

Do you think it is strongly AI for the answer? Atm I have you/myself/Username/RR/Alisae as strong townreads. Any you disagree on here?

I don't think it's strongly AI unless someone replies with something blatantly false. Town and scum would both be concerned with game health overall and both would agree with the concerns I am raising.

Ftr, I don't believe NK15 felt he was antitown by outing. He wasn't part of T v A and didn't see how someone being conftown and in control of lynches (despite trying not to) impacts the game. The less controlling I was, the better town did. So the dual lynch thing might be the best we have, but it's still a problem.

[Titus]

Atm I have you/myself/Username/RR/Alisae as strong townreads. Any you disagree on here?

I don't see enough from RR to justify including him. I am ok with the others.

[Titus]

So here's my thinking about shipments.

We send half the living players on Linen, and the other half on Copper. Who gets on which is largely irrelevant.
Conftown players get to go on the wheat ship. Today that would be NK15, provided they confirm themselves on the inspection report. Which if they don't do is a scumclaim.

We investigate either Linen or Copper, whichever we feel is more likely to have scum onboard. If Inno, everyone onboard moves to Wheat duty, and we execute from the other ship. If guilTea, we execute there.

Thoughts?

Tailoring this since it was mentioned again.

I agree partially with this. If we do that, the shipping assignments should be randomized. We have NK to go through for the randomization to have it be trustworthy (just no dice tags or proof of randomness). That prevents scum from plotting out which wagon to be on.

We could then vote on the shipping pattern once the areas are fixed.

[Titus]

Why is randomness preferable to Scum plotting and (potentially) making a mistake? Or at least leaving some kind of pattern to it that we could pick up on?

First, people will have reactions to a plot suggestion. Those can help determine alignments.

Second, determining if scum made a mistake is near impossible without knowing which wincondition they go for. Each wincondition would want a different setup on investigations. If scum go for wincondition A but the investigation matches wincondition B, that hurts scum.

[Titus]

If we do it randomly, though, then scum are presumed equally distributed across the two shipments and we expect that both shipments will probably have tea on them. So finding tea doesn't tell us anything we don't already expect, and not finding it is potentially disastrous for the reasons I outlined.

I need to think more.

Actually, that scenario is <1/3 likely. If we suppose two scum randed different spots, then the last scum has 1/3 odds of landing the third letter.

[Titus]

Why is randomness preferable to Scum plotting and (potentially) making a mistake? Or at least leaving some kind of pattern to it that we could pick up on?

First, people will have reactions to a plot suggestion. Those can help determine alignments.

Second, determining if scum made a mistake is near impossible without knowing which wincondition they go for. Each wincondition would want a different setup on investigations. If scum go for wincondition A but the investigation matches wincondition B, that hurts scum.

I don't think there's much difference in the wincons anyway. No matter which one is their primary objective, scum needs to stay alive and find the TD. I don't want to go into too much detail, but I really don't see much room for divergence.
And even then, I don't see how randomness helps at all. I much prefer letting scum do things that might get them caught instead of offloading to luck.

There is an absolute difference in wincons.

If they feel they cannot survive lynches, they'd use the shipments to narrow down the TD. Thus, they'd pile onto one.

If they can survive via lynching, they'd spread out.

By doing random, it removes the choice.

[Titus]

There is an absolute difference in wincons.

If they feel they cannot survive lynches, they'd use the shipments to narrow down the TD. Thus, they'd pile onto one.

If they can survive via lynching, they'd spread out.

By doing random, it removes the choice.

Yes, those are the two approaches they could take, though either could easily serve either wincon. But again. Why is removing the choice a good thing? Why would we deny ourselves the opportunity to watch for a scum pattern?

The watching leads to a circular conclusion. Very few people actually reevaluate when data suggests differently. We can figure out who scum are because they want that flexibility.

[Titus]

what is agency capturing?

It's where scum buddy a town so effectively they work for the scumteam. It word comes from agency capture in the law.

Someone who is agency captured is a townbeard.

[Titus]

Because he was making a joke alluding to who he was- a player known for rage posting and I thought it was just scum grandstanding but in retrospect with the new lens it’s super easy to see it that way.

Also fwiw I really doubt he unclowns me but his reaction is pretty standard for the bits I remember of playing with town him.

You knew, dude. You can say all you want, but I absolutely refuse to believe that you just coincidentally hit upon the one thing that is so well known to piss me off that I put it in my wiki asking people not to do. The one fucking thing I have told people REPEATEDLYOVER THE FUCKING YEARSto stop fucking doing. And I mean YEARS.

In Team mafia I had to tell Flavor Leaf in my own god damn scum PT that just because he was scum with me doesn't mean he's allowed to pull that "fake rage" bullshit because it pisses me the fuck off.

And on top of THAT, you accused me of being angry, when I wasn't even CLOSE to angry. That's the same type of gaslighting bullshit that Carl Tuckerson tried in Purge Mafia and I put a vig shot right between his scummy-ass eyes. Fishmonger tried that same shit against me, and I roped his scummy ass up too.

Your ass is fucking caught, notscience. You knew damn well who I was, (I even pointed out that I was making no effort to hide it) that's why you used some shit that you knew would deliberately piss me off and derail the thread. You said it yourself. You wanted me lynched, so you baited me. Your words.

Now you're caught fucking scum, and I'mma stand over your corpse just like I did Carl Tuckerson, just like Fish Monger, just like every god damn half-ass scum that ever tried to bait me into a ban over the last eight years.

And the real funny thing is, even if you didn't know, you're still scummy as shit for misrepresenting a player's posts as "angry" when they clearly fucking weren't (NOW DO YOU SEE THE DIFFERENCE YOU DISINGENUOUS FUCK) and for trying to bait another player into a cascade of thread-derailing bannable hate.

even if it HADNT fucking been me, and even if you HADNT known, it's STILL SCUMMY as shit, and i'm gonna rope your ass

[Titus]

Execute: notscience

Decent place to start until I get my feet wet with data.

[Titus]

So Username is obvtown.

I concur, because I put little stock in meta and slips. I am not sure if he's right, but obvtown with a confident read is a good place to put my vote to sort at least.

[Titus]

@umlaut, why are you defending notty while on his wagon?

[Titus]

Yeah? Some of my posts are jokes/fluff. Do you still think there's no solving from me after seeing that quote wall?

Frankly, I am concerned and this argument is garbage.

First, it's lamisty. Second, it ignores the fact scum may spam to hide things they don't want seen.

[Titus]

Hi Titus \o/

I'm town this time

I hope so. That last game was rough. Thanks for the show though. If you are scum again, don't regret it.

[Titus]

Ali, what do you think of Umlaut being partners with notscience? Or do you think that notscience is town and username is wrong?

[Titus]

VLA Until July 10th.

I like both the notscience and Umault wagons. I'll do a more detailed catchup when I can.

[Titus]

Why is norwee scum @hell and minute

Sell me

I see that hell reference. You really do work for the devil. Don't you?

[Titus]

I'm ok with an execution/invest on NK 15.

Am I reading right that both Hel and Ico are claiming PA now?

[Titus]

I think NK15 should move to Copper or Wheat to be investigated in a smaller pairing. His slot has a lot of contention to it, which I admittedly only skimmed. I know this lets him pick his own pairing but we can't force him unless we feel he's absolutely scum setting up to frame someone.

[Titus]

Ico is in a near impossible situation. No matter what he does, someone will object. We can compare objections later, particularly if we get a scumflip. I am willing to play sheep the leader if Ico wants but I recommend he be as hands off as he feels he can be. Being IC with an outed strategy setup is hard enough. Let's do what we csn to not stall out the game though.

Ship Linen
Investigate Linen

[Titus]

There's a slight problem with your plan Maxwell but it's antitown to say.

[Titus]

I think we need to lynch NK 15. I am not 100% sure what he'll flip, but I think RR is right. If NK is scum, then we learn something from our investigation. If NK is town, then we have to guess everyone else right in order to save him. That's unlikely. So he'd be a mislynch tomorrow. We then would spend that entire day learning nothing.

If NK wasn't such a contentious slot in VCA and by claim, then I might see defending him. Here it's just too antitown.

VOTE: NK 15

[Titus]

Dat ninja.

[Titus]

I think there's a difference between directly responding to someone making actions to indicate that they are not the TD and "keeping track of who is not the TD", but I will concede that my point is a fairly weak one.

Pretty sure Moment is town. I don't see scum admitting a point is weaker in this manner while engaging the substance and avoiding discussing if they are the TD or not.

[Titus]

Execute: Maki
Investigate: Wheat

[Titus]

Bad pool.

I partially agree. Notscience in the pool is good. I think he's scum and it helps sort the wagons. I would have preferred an NK15 lynch to resolve it but I am not particularly townreading Maki.

The problem is that if Notty is scum and NK is town, we practically hand scum a mislynch if he's on.

If notty is town and NK is scum, we had better hope Datisi and Moment are town. Otherwise free mislynch and NK floats. With username's tunnel, I don't see anyone else getting executed if the investigation flips tea.

[Titus]

What would be optimal Maki?

[Titus]

Romance books are alright. I personally prefer mysteries but occasionally its nice to just focus on the happy parts of life.

You know Hallmark movies and myseries has both...once they stop doing Xmas in July. The Aurora Teagarden mysteries are pretty good.

[Titus]

Idk if I wanna play in a game where Icon is just gonna choose who we lynch for us because that’s not my idea of fun

I prefer the one where we choose between two people for him by voting as normal and then he chooses from there

Was a necessary plan for today. Hopefully not for tomorrow. Nature of the setup is kind of ugly that way and our hand was forced.

I think this setup needs a nightkill that only works on the PA to stop this IMO.

[Titus]

weird post

Dude, I am the queen of weird.

[Titus]

titus this game suxs

Now you see why T v A was hard despite "stomping" scum. I had to do things to hide my masons, manage my scumhunting and not turn into a dictator. Ico has one mason he must hide or town loses. It's stressful and hard on him. I'm sympathetic as there's no ideal approach but I feel dictator IC is the wrong one because it demotivates the voices needed to do well.

[Titus]

Day 2 will be another matter entirely, and all of town will be needed to sort the information we have.
I think a 2-lynch option in which I may or may not veto sounds good.

This only looks like you aren't strongarming the game. If we get two wagons going and you veto them both, then what

[Titus]

Like, I'm down with follow the leader in this case, mostly because what the fuck else am I doing with my life


But if umulat is that upset about it he sure doesn't seem to be putting any resistance toward killing what he says is gonna be a town flip


It just reeks of trying to absolve oneself of culpability

+1 my umlaut read just took a dive

[Titus]

Still vla.

Execute notscience

I think Moment is town. Notscience is likely scum by vca.

If we hit scum, we should investigate another pool of three to four.

If we hit town, we should investigate within the pool as I doubt any are the TD is in the pool. (Why would the PA suggest a pool that flips tea?)

[Titus]

VoteCount 1.9

Iconeum [1] - Datisi
NorwegianboyEE [2] - Hel, Moment
Menalque [1] - Maki Harukawa
notscience [4] - username, Radical Rat, Titus, Menalque
Umlaut [4] - maxwell, Alisae, NorwegianboyEE, GuiltyLion
Titus [1] - Umlaut

Not Voting [4]

- Something_Smart, Iconeum, notscience, Not Known 15

With 17 alive it takes 9 votes to be executed.

Countdown to deadline: (expired on 2020-07-11 13:35:31)

I am shipping...

Linen

[10] - Alisae, Maki Harukawa, GuiltyLion, Something_Smart, Not Known 15, maxwell, Menalque, Iconeum, notscience, Umlaut

Copper

[4] - Titus, NorwegianboyEE, username, Radical Rat

Wheat

[3] - Datisi, Hel, Moment

Let's Inspect...

Linen

[1] - Radical Rat

Copper

[2] - Hel, Moment

Wheat

[3] - Umlaut, NorwegianboyEE, maxwell

VoteCount 1.10

NorwegianboyEE [1] - Hel
Menalque [1] - Maki Harukawa
notscience [3] - Radical Rat, Titus, Menalque
Umlaut [4] - maxwell, Alisae, GuiltyLion, Moment
Not Known 15 [5] - NorwegianboyEE, Datisi, username, notscience, Umlaut

Not Voting [3]

- Something_Smart, Iconeum, Not Known 15

With 17 alive it takes 9 votes to be executed.

Countdown to deadline: (expired on 2020-07-11 13:35:31)

I am shipping...

Linen

[10] - Alisae, Maki Harukawa, GuiltyLion, Something_Smart, Not Known 15, maxwell, Menalque, Iconeum, notscience, Umlaut

Copper

[4] - Titus, NorwegianboyEE, username, Radical Rat

Wheat

[3] - Datisi, Hel, Moment

Let's Inspect...

Linen

[1] - Radical Rat

Copper

[3] - Hel, Moment, maxwell

Wheat

[3] - Umlaut, NorwegianboyEE, GuiltyLion

If notty flips scum, I want Umlaut and NK inspected. Umlaut is ok with the NK counterwagon but not the Notty one.

After EE's post, I want him investigated too.

[Titus]

why is notty scum again?
because of username?
is that it?

It was partly that, partly a general lack of feeling like his posting was coming from town. But a lot of it rn is that I think datisi and moment both had much townier D1s and there is confirmed scum in those 3

maxwell's post on moment is pretty good ngl

I kinda feel maxwell is the townbeard.

[Titus]

Actually, I was a bit hazy with my last post. We won't have a flip when we do the next round of investigations.

So we should have three or four new people to investigate. I still think Umlaut, NK, and EE are good choices.

Depending on the investigation result, we lynch in Umlaut, NK, or EE. Meanwhile, we submit a solo investigation on one of notscience/moment/datisi if we lynch town. If we lynch scum, we submit three to four names to investigate.

To summarize

Today: Lynch in notscience/moment/daitisi
Investigate 3-4 people. I strongly urge NK and Umlaut.

Tomorrow
If our invest hit tea, lynch within the pool. Otherwise, free lynch.
Investigate either one of the remainder of the first pool or three-four new people if we hit scum today.

Basically, we need two investigation pools going due to the delayed results.

[Titus]

I disagree with your plan Titus. I suggest we lynch one of Notscience/Moment/Datisi and then put the remaining people of the initial investigation pool into Wheat together with me. Then we check if there are still tea in the group. If we managed to get the scum with our first guess we can check if there are more people that are scum in the pool (i'll know it's one of the two people if there is positive for tea in there.) Otherwise, if we get a clear on all three of us we can get conf!town that are more competent than the current town leaders. Honestly, Mena's been playing awful and i'd like to see him dethroned soon. You too Titus. There are so many people just spouting rambling theories and TR'ing them for it. And the crescendo of it all was the lynch yesterday. It was a god awful lynch on a person i TR and i don't even understand why they were lynched in the first place.

This straight up denies town information. Unless you're confident we lynch town today, the proper play is to widen the pool. We don't get new "competent" town leaders if we don't investigate to find them.

If we investigate new people and find tea, that puts scum in a huge bind. That also shows our leaders are competent and accurate.

We can then use our lynch result to determine if a new investigation is even necessary.

[Titus]

And take a look at Moment's 1154
They're freaking obvtown. A wagon on them is a terrible wagon and i condemn it with all of my strenght. The wagon on NotScience is bad too, more votes on Datisi please.

At least we agree on Moment being a bad wagon. I would strongly prefer notty though. His defense of Maki feels like a whiteknight.

[Titus]

Norwegian over the last couple pages is hella town but also spewing himself not TD which I am begging people not to do for fuck's sake

I don't see how EE is town or Moment is scum.

EE is deliberately wanting to limit the investigation pool.
Moment has been vocal, clear and consistent. His reads largely match up with mine.

Meanwhile, notty is throwing out whatever he can to survive.

I think you're agency captured at this point.

[Titus]

Arbitrarily wanting to toss people into the investigation pool right away preflip doesn't sit right with me, my feeling is that we'll be able to guess a lot better when we're sure which of the 3 right now is scum.

Meanwhile, notty is throwing out whatever he can to survive.

What the fuck are you talking about? He's barely said anything today.

Who said anything about arbitrary? Aside from EE, who volunteered to be investigated, the other two slots I am suggesting were the major counterwagons to notscience. We don't know which of the three is scum. That's correct. That's why I suggested we return to investigating in the first pool if we lynch town. If we hit scum, reinvestigating is a waste.

As for notscience, he still is survalistic but I was referring to yesterday. If we overthrew the Maki lynch, there was a dlim chance we could rebel against the investigation. Notty isn't scumhunting and hasn't been since username caught him.

[Titus]

I think you're agency captured at this point.

This is just a really cheap and scummy buzzword. Honestly Titus, i’m starting to scumread you too.

I invented the term in mafia. It's hardly a buzzword. In those two words I said I think Maxwell is town but his entire reads are wrong.

[Titus]

Norwegian over the last couple pages is hella town but also spewing himself not TD which I am begging people not to do for fuck's sake

Yeah, don’t spew yourself TD. I’m making myself the exception because someone needs to take over badly. The wagons so far are garbage, not a single vote on scum!Datisi except for me. Obvtown Moment has 2 votes. I’m being shaded for bad reasons left and right. I had to do this for the sake of not throwing the game.

No one needs to take over. The investigation netted scum. That means a guarantee scum lynch by Day 4. Period.

[Titus]

I think you're agency captured at this point.

This is just a really cheap and scummy buzzword. Honestly Titus, i’m starting to scumread you too.

I invented the term in mafia. It's hardly a buzzword. In those two words I said I think Maxwell is town but his entire reads are wrong.

With the context you quoted him from, you were basically just stating bluntly that he is town and i am pocketing him. Which sounds like a really scummy A F thing to say if you're not even going to elaborate why exactly he is wrong about his read on me or anyone else.

I am interacting with Maxwell to get at the bottom of his faulty reads. I never accused you of being the source. If I had though, a theory alone isn't scummy. The truth is I don't know whether you are glaringly anti-town or scum. That's why I am calling your bluff on being investigated.

[Titus]

Norwegian over the last couple pages is hella town but also spewing himself not TD which I am begging people not to do for fuck's sake

Yeah, don’t spew yourself TD. I’m making myself the exception because someone needs to take over badly. The wagons so far are garbage, not a single vote on scum!Datisi except for me. Obvtown Moment has 2 votes. I’m being shaded for bad reasons left and right. I had to do this for the sake of not throwing the game.

No one needs to take over. The investigation netted scum. That means a guarantee scum lynch by Day 4. Period.

We need 2 scum dead by the end of Day 5.

[Titus]

Unless you think all 3 are scum, we need to investigate a new pool today.

[Titus]

(Notscience, norwee, ?)

Although actually if those two are right then it’s game and hopefully it ends early enough that the TD hasn’t been caught

How would it be game if it's those two? We're having enough problems wagoning Notty.

[Titus]

(Notscience, norwee, ?)

Although actually if those two are right then it’s game and hopefully it ends early enough that the TD hasn’t been caught

How would it be game if it's those two? We're having enough problems wagoning Notty.

Have you... have you read the setup?

Did Titius just townslip? Well then. Probably need to rethink some things.

I have. It's not enough to FoS scum. We still have to execute them. Notty is obvscum but he's not executed. Saying scum must die is not a townslip. Lol

[Titus]

maxwell can you talk to me about your moment read? EE plus notscience screams s v s. EE basically is saying if you don't get this heat off, he must bus. They aren't sorting each other. Why would EE ever vote a townread in this setup? For giving up?

[Titus]

@Menalque
You can keep your vote on NS without throwing a tantrum, i'm just trying to say an alternative because i'm not really seeing NS as all that scummy.

This just feels like you're scrambling for a notscience alternative. Where is his scumhunting? Why would you give up defending a townread?

[Titus]

what's the big difference between saying "spiritual vote on X" and actually voting X?

To me, it's immense. Please vote. VCA is my baby.

[Titus]

@Menalque
You can keep your vote on NS without throwing a tantrum, i'm just trying to say an alternative because i'm not really seeing NS as all that scummy.

This just feels like you're scrambling for a notscience alternative. Where is his scumhunting? Why would you give up defending a townread?

Anyone would give up defending a townread when faced with BS posts such as Mena's.

Nope. Try again. I'd go toe to toe with Mena. Sure it can be annoying but town see past juvenile tactics. Although I do agree with him, the posts don't help the cause. Stop excusing poor play from yourself by blaming others. That's scummy. There is always someone else to be blamed.

Here, we have notscience no scumhunting. Fypov daitsi isn't scumhunting. Only one is scum though in your eyes.

You're not hunting either. You're deflecting notscience onto a weaker town.

[Titus]

You're not hunting either. You're deflecting notscience onto a weaker town.

You're calling Datisi "weaker town" from my POV it sounds like you don't entirely TR them either.

No. I do TR them. Weaker town refers to their skill and standing in the thread. I generally am weakest day 1.

I basically said you're bullying town.

[Titus]

Also that whole line of argument is inherently self-defeating: if you're refusing to execute or even investigate him precisely because he fakeclaimed then you can't also say it's a bad scum play

Ico too dumb to scum is an opinion not a fact. It would be best for the health of the town for him to be investigated.

If you're right, it'll turn up wheat anyway.

[Titus]

i think the play is for everyone to decide on 2 options to investigate, and 2 (or 3?) options to execute in which I have final say?

I would recommed umlaut NK15 and EE as investigations tonight. This is VCA investigations so it holds no matter what notty flips (although I think its scum).

[Titus]

5 days left

please start reaffirming at least 2 brackets to invest

{NK15, EE, RR} (all known not TD)

I actually think RR is pretty town but it doesn't hurt to have him in there.

I still want Umlat in there too for my VCA.

[Titus]

otoh i probably shouldn't be talking about reads too much

i think the play is for everyone to decide on 2 options to investigate, and 2 (or 3?) options to execute in which I have final say?

i will correct myself here and say that the execution is 100% a majority thing today as long as it stays inside of the 3 investigated players

as far as the inspect goes, I think a couple of options for me to decide in is probably a good call

right?

Umlaut NK15 EE/RR is fine by me.

[Titus]

Inspect Wheat

[Titus]

My propose invest pool is {Norway, Something_Smart, Umlaut}

am fine with keeping it down to just two players of those three, biggest preference is probably Norway

Why not NK?

[Titus]

Titus, why is Umlaut scum by VCA?

He's not necessarily. I want all the Notty counters investigated to figure out what scum valued.

[Titus]

would like smarter people then me to start commenting on this

that would be almost everybody

I still would like help on my VCA. Can you please reconsider Umlaut and NK? Umlaut I know is unpopular but a good chunk of the game has requested NK.

[Titus]

Scum do not benefit more than us.

Right now, assuming random executions and random guessing, we have a 21% chance of executing two scum in five tries, and scum have an 8% chance of guessing the daughter. That gives us an EV of 20%.
If we clear 5 townies, we would then have a 42% chance of executing two scum in five tries, while scum would have a 13% chance of guessing the daughter. That gives us an EV of 37%.

(I could calculate the numbers for other sizes but the point is the same.)

if everyone agrees that it's mathematically beneficial to include a third today, i won't oppose it

I think we should add a third name, even if it's not Umlaut. NK15 has volunteered to be the third name. EE, NK15, S_S.

That's my understanding anyway.

[Titus]

Alisae, talk to me. What are your thoughts here? Why are you still voting moment?

[Titus]

Alisae, here's the problem I have. You're running around in a defeatist style, similar to T v A. There town kept lynching scum. We're lynching notscience today and you're reflecting the same defeatist attitude.

You and I are uniquely (as far as I know) situated in a position to aid Ico in managing the emotional stress of being conftown in a game where they're unkillable. You could at least be dealing with him empathetically by answering his questions. I am sure you could come up with more than I could because emotional saviness is not my forte.

The thing is, you just aren't.

[Titus]

I’d be willing to vote NS just to get this game moving along. Just waiting for a VC.

i'm gonna have to ask you to stop referring to notsci as NS

the older players here on the site remember those initials as belonging to someone on the site who brings back some pretty shitty memories

I second the not pleasant memories. It might be hard to do but if it makes him uncomfortable please don't regardless of alignment.

[Titus]

Alisae, why are you treating me better than conftown? You also didn't answer my concerns from yesterday.

[Titus]

(Ali, hel)? Worth checking in (datisi, moment) again too probably because a false negative would fuck us hard here

We actually can get to that without wasting an investigation on two likely town. Today we should use today for three new people. That's because today is the last day for an autowin if we catch in three.

[Titus]

(Ali, hel)? Worth checking in (datisi, moment) again too probably because a false negative would fuck us hard here

We actually can get to that without wasting an investigation on two likely town. Today we should use today for three new people. That's because today is the last day for an autowin if we catch in three.

Yes, but if we check outside again today we’re getting dangerous in the territory of narrowing down the TD

We can check three new people because a lot of you have spewed not!TD.

[Titus]

(Ali, hel)? Worth checking in (datisi, moment) again too probably because a false negative would fuck us hard here

We actually can get to that without wasting an investigation on two likely town. Today we should use today for three new people. That's because today is the last day for an autowin if we catch in three.

Yes, but if we check outside again today we’re getting dangerous in the territory of narrowing down the TD

We can check three new people because a lot of you have spewed not!TD.

You sound like you’re implying that you think I’ve spewed not!TD

I don’t think I’ve said anything that would imply whether or not I’m the TD

You was the collective you not the singular.

[Titus]

Yes, but i’ve gotten experience in cross-bussing nomination tactics. In a game called nomination mafia my team nominated all three of us on D1. And most of the players stood silent and didn’t do much to make it convincing.
I realize you might be right but i’m paranoid.

Wasn't I in that game as scum with you?

Titus, give me some of that sweet VCA.
Where do you think scum would be based on that vote spread?

Asking for my VCA is fair. That particular wagon though tells us next to nothing because conftown decided the lynch, so both sides jump on. It's akin to a cop guilty. VCA would only be valid until the point where Ico decided the lynch. VCA requires conflict between what town and scum want and can do.

[Titus]

My preferred investigation is the same as it was yesterday. Moment/Datisi/NK15.

All three are known to not be TD, and I still REALLY think NK15 needs to be checked especially, but clearing out Moment/Datisi is also a very good thing to do.


As for execution....... I don't know yet. I was expecting at least one of Norwee or SS to be scum at the end of the day there.

I agree with checking NK15. I disagree with Datisi/Moment based on what's been said before. Scum could easily cross bus there.

[Titus]

Yes you were in that game Titus.

A major difference in that game was that scum, not town, determined the lynch/investigation pool. Here Ico dictated the pool. The rolling over and playing dead makes much less sense if Datisi and Moment were scum due to town's investment.

Now off to eyeball VCA.

[Titus]

ok, off of memory, i think i'm around here



(author's note: conftowns {s_s, norwee, ico, radical} not depicted, also pls forgive if your avatar is overlayed by someone else's, i tried)

general notes being:
- along with my earlier townread, i don't think mena starts bussing day 1 (and in a setup like this)

- while i don't think guiltylion has

as

obvtowned as other times, i think he's still pretty firmly town

- i like titus's posts and content, plus (from what i remember from that shitfest of a game) she feels different than the flying scumsman

- i don't think moment is scum here? like, seeing both mena and guiltylion (who are more or less universally townread) saying we should be investigating in datisi/moment, and in response to that writing 1983? when objectively i'm in a worse position than he is (and with norwee and radical now being conftown, both of whom were suspecting me), i'd sooner expect scum!moment to be pushing for my solo inspection than writing a case like that

(unless your argument is that the team is exactly datisi/moment, which... it's not)

- username

probably

deserves more credit than i'm giving him, but i have a terrible habit of constantly reading "angry, aggressive, screaming" people as town (and losing games when scum does that), so i don't think i can put him closer to bottom right now

- hel has fallen off my radar yesterday, and lowkey the only thing i remember from them was that suspicion towards guiltylion which i thought was kinda odd/misplaced?

- max/umlaut need a second look, i vaguely remember liking some of max's posts (and remember nothing from umalut) but reading isos is difficult zzz

- in a vacuum, nk15 yesterday was heavily reminding me of a game where i was scum, did some weird shit, and coasted off of it (coupled with ico defending him in almost the same way town!him was defending me then), but... in the grand scheme of things, i don't even know what to think here.

~

(Ali, hel)? Worth checking in (datisi, moment) again too probably because a false negative would fuck us hard here

do you think there's scum in {datisi, moment}?

~

Datisi(lurks)

~

and i townread you [titus] so wynaut?

weren't you scumreading titus yesterday?

~

I realize you might be right but i’m paranoid.

has norwee come around? :3

How the hell are me and GuiltyLion higher than username?

[Titus]

VoteCount 1.6

Titus [1] - maxwell
Iconeum [1] - Datisi
Umlaut [1] - Not Known 15
NorwegianboyEE [3] - Hel, Moment, Maki Harukawa
Datisi [1] - GuiltyLion
username [1] - NorwegianboyEE
Alisae [1] - Menalque
Not Known 15 [1] - Umlaut
Menalque [1] - Radical Rat
notscience [1] - username

Not Voting [5]

- Something_Smart, Iconeum, Titus, Alisae, notscience

With 17 alive it takes 9 votes to be executed.

Countdown to deadline: (expired on 2020-07-11 13:35:31)

I am shipping...

Linen

[10] - Alisae, Maki Harukawa, GuiltyLion, Something_Smart, Not Known 15, maxwell, Menalque, Iconeum, , notscience, Umlaut

Copper

[4] - Titus, NorwegianboyEE, username, Radical Rat

Wheat

[3] - Datisi, Hel, Moment

Let's Inspect...

Linen

[1] - Radical Rat

Copper

[2] - Hel, Moment

Wheat

[2] - Umlaut, NorwegianboyEE

Weak Fos on Hel/Moment.

VoteCount 1.8

Iconeum [1] - Datisi
NorwegianboyEE [2] - Hel, Moment
Datisi [1] - GuiltyLion
Menalque [1] - Maki Harukawa
notscience [4] - username, Umlaut, Radical Rat, Titus
maxwell [1] - Menalque
Hel [1] - NorwegianboyEE
Umlaut [1] - maxwell

Not Voting [5]

- Something_Smart, Iconeum, Alisae, notscience, Not Known 15

With 17 alive it takes 9 votes to be executed.

Countdown to deadline: (expired on 2020-07-11 13:35:31)

I am shipping...

Linen

[10] - Alisae, Maki Harukawa, GuiltyLion, Something_Smart, Not Known 15, maxwell, Menalque, Iconeum, notscience, Umlaut

Copper

[4] - Titus, NorwegianboyEE, username, Radical Rat

Wheat

[3] - Datisi, Hel, Moment

Let's Inspect...

Linen

[1] - Radical Rat

Copper

[2] - Hel, Moment

Wheat

[3] - Umlaut, NorwegianboyEE, maxwell

VoteCount 1.9

I would expect one scum in here.

Iconeum [1] - Datisi
NorwegianboyEE [2] - Hel, Moment
Menalque [1] - Maki Harukawa
notscience [4] - username, Radical Rat, Titus, Menalque
Umlaut [4] - maxwell, Alisae, NorwegianboyEE, GuiltyLion
Titus [1] - Umlaut

Not Voting [4]

- Something_Smart, Iconeum, notscience, Not Known 15

With 17 alive it takes 9 votes to be executed.

Countdown to deadline: (expired on 2020-07-11 13:35:31)

I am shipping...

Linen

[10] - Alisae, Maki Harukawa, GuiltyLion, Something_Smart, Not Known 15, maxwell, Menalque, Iconeum, notscience, Umlaut

Copper

[4] - Titus, NorwegianboyEE, username, Radical Rat

Wheat

[3] - Datisi, Hel, Moment

Let's Inspect...

Linen

[1] - Radical Rat

Copper

[2] - Hel, Moment

Wheat

[3] - Umlaut, NorwegianboyEE, maxwell

Either Umlaut/notscience was S v S or Umlaut was a townbeard at this point. Umlaut is backing off Notty's wagon to chainsaw it.

FoS Melanque and Alisae as well but I doubt both are scum. I have too many FoSes atm and I hope the next VCs clear things up.

[Titus]

FoS GL on that last wagon, only if Umlaut is town.

[Titus]

VoteCount 1.10

NorwegianboyEE [1] - Hel
Menalque [1] - Maki Harukawa
notscience [3] - Radical Rat, Titus, Menalque
Umlaut [4] - maxwell, Alisae, GuiltyLion, Moment
Not Known 15 [5] - NorwegianboyEE, Datisi, username, notscience, Umlaut

Not Voting [3]

- Something_Smart, Iconeum, Not Known 15

With 17 alive it takes 9 votes to be executed.

Countdown to deadline: (expired on 2020-07-11 13:35:31)

I am shipping...

Linen

[10] - Alisae, Maki Harukawa, GuiltyLion, Something_Smart, Not Known 15, maxwell, Menalque, Iconeum, notscience, Umlaut

Copper

[4] - Titus, NorwegianboyEE, username, Radical Rat

Wheat

[3] - Datisi, Hel, Moment

Let's Inspect...

Linen

[1] - Radical Rat

Copper

[3] - Hel, Moment, maxwell

Wheat

[3] - Umlaut, NorwegianboyEE, GuiltyLion

If Umlaut and NK 15 are scum together, I'll eat my hat. The odds of town being that good day 1 is insane. The NK wagon drew very little from either existing wagon. Based on this, I highly suspect NK and Umlaut are opposing alignments.

Last thing is the neighbor check to try and reduce FoSes.

[Titus]

Ok neighbor check is useless because notty never really voted. I do recall Datisi and notty being neighbors on Ico at the end of his wagon too but that's weak.

I am surprised my VCA says nothing on Alisae.

[Titus]

How the hell are me and GuiltyLion higher than username?

i'm reading all three of you as town. the issue is that the reasons why i'm townreading username not as "valuable" as for the two of you - i default to reading aggressiveness as town, and can't really tell the difference. so i can't be confident in that read.

His aggressiveness was against scum though. Unless you think that ragefest was planned, username is town.

[Titus]

Based on the VCA plus context of yesterday, I recommend Umlaut, NK15 and GL as investigations. Either we hit all town, which suggests extreme scum wtf or we autowin as all three of those slots have spewed not!TD.

[Titus]

Execute: Alisae

Play the game. I hate meta but this is a huge neon sign of T v A.

[Titus]

I’m just not seeing scum playing like NK15 has done here. So i’m willing to townbin him.

I respectfully disagree but I have scumread idiotic plays before. He still needs investigation. It's too bad not to be investigated.

[Titus]

I’m pretty good at sorting "town that plays idiotically" as not scum so i suggest you believe me on this Titus.

Alright, I'll punt on NK15 on the investigation pool today if you help me stop the stupid push to repeat out investigation. Since Umlaut and NK should be opposing alignments, I still should be ok as long as Umlaut is investigated.

[Titus]

I’ve got something better than an investigation.

I'd rather lynch Alisae over Umlaut. Alisae's play is literally a scumclaim from E. Alisae gets so defeated as scum when things don't go eir way. I feel much more confident on Alisae scum than my VCA because my VCA didn't really clear anyone.

[Titus]

Oh btw Titus i don’t think i show defeatism in thread ever as scum
Wasn’t most of my defeatism in the scum PT?

You absolutely did not keep your rants to the scum PT and discord. You tried to use them to argue that we'd never catch the deep wolf.

[Titus]

Oh btw Titus i don’t think i show defeatism in thread ever as scum
Wasn’t most of my defeatism in the scum PT?

You absolutely did not keep your rants to the scum PT and discord. You tried to use them to argue that we'd never catch the deep wolf.

are you sure that didn’t have anything to do with teh fact that I was a Treestump?

Not really. It was the last argument you had to protect RR. Just like I suspected you are playing dead in a last ditch attempt to save yourself.

Pedit: You didn't draft terrible for the game. You drafted to stop my strengths as to enhancing my weaknesses. It was just a strategy that backfired.

[Titus]

Not really. It was the last argument you had to protect RR.

I seemed pretty desperate if it was the last argument I had.

You seem pretty desperate here too.

You want to sheep me.
I tell you make content.
You resign instead.

[Titus]

Stop voting Alisae until we have the investigation ready.
We should re-invest Moment and Datisi, investigate me, and lynch Alisae.
The pool of Not TD has been shrinking dangerously low. If this doesnt hit scum we need to investigate another and lynch another on the command of Iconeum and then try a final lynch on Day 5, if that hits the pool is already so low that TD dying is likely. There is no good reason to not reinvestigate Moment and Datisi. (Except if you are scum with Datisi/Moment)

You cannot have it both ways.

If a lot of people are spewed not TD, then they are better investigations than Datisi and Moment who are likely town. This gives scum no more info and gives us a much better chance of lynching another scum.

(EE this is scummy as fuck btw.)

[Titus]

Alisae is the lynch. We are needing your input on the investigations.

[Titus]

well like has been stated in game

i'm not the best when it comes to mechanics so i don't know if it's better to investigate in a new pool, or relook into moment + datisi while we focus on dayplay

leaning to reinspecting moment + datisi

I am a mechanics expert. Redoing Datisi and moment is gamethrowing.

We need to lynch another scum. Therefore, we need to investigate likely scum candidates. Another three confirms and scum have no place to hide. Another guilty and we can flat out stop investigating altogether. It literally wins the game. Plus, we can do it in people who are outed not!TD.

Meanwhile, investigating Datisi and Moment gets us no closer to solving the puzzle. We get two conftowns who no one actually suspects.

[Titus]

Redoing Datisi and moment is gamethrowing.

Outing the TD is gamethrowing

That's why I said we can do the investigation in people already outed not!TD. There's several by my count, which is a problem already but for postgame discussion. It's frustrating beyond belief I can say that.

[Titus]

Plus, we can do it in people who are outed not!TD.

You keep saying this, who do you think these people are

Umlaut, maxwell, and you. NK 15 too but that one is debatable. GuiltyLion probably too. Alisae has but they are the lynch.

[Titus]

Yeah. I can prove all those outs if you make me but I am supposing scum are competent here.

[Titus]

I'm waiting until it's been decided if there will be a third person and if so, who they will be.

I guess maybe you volunteering would mean that you have to be? I mean ngl I thought Icon was softing you as daughter but like if you're the daughter this is now beyond salvageable.

I think Iconeum wanted to make me a fake daughter but that`s just not happening. I looked at the situation and there is just no way that scum will fall for that attempted trick, whilst it continues to divert the attention of the town because there are enough people wanting me to be included, wasting their energy and time on that.

For instance, here on NK15.

[Titus]

NK will be inspected

i've fucking warned you guys about taking my day 1 picks into account
but if NK is insisting about being inspected himself he can fucking have it

Here too

[Titus]

NK, stop trying to deflect from being scum here. We should investigate in the not!TD that are already outed.

Your post NK supposes a world where scum haven't already narrowed down the TD in order to avoid investigating yourself.

The only way to win this is to go for the jugular and stop more slips before they happen.

[Titus]

And in the case that you are lying — how is this helpful to town?

I have no choice. We need to win with this investigation. If I know certain slots are not!TD, then scum know it too. Scum have the advantage of knowing themselves not!TD as well.

Redoing this investigation creates more slips.

I left out proof that didn't come from Ico for exactly this reason. Maybe scum think I am wrong. They are too close for us to dicker around reinvestigating.

[Titus]

NK will be inspected

i've fucking warned you guys about taking my day 1 picks into account
but if NK is insisting about being inspected himself he can fucking have it

Here too

I think you’re underestimating iconeum and its ability to wifom scum

I think you want to argue I am wrong because it makes you feel better. Sure, there's a theorectical wifom ability to it. Yet it's terrible play as conftown because investigate NK15, like you promised, will continue to be a thing and block scumhunting.

[Titus]

Redoing this investigation creates more slips.

NO IT DOESN'T????????????? REDOING THE INVESTIGATION

PREVENTS

SLIPS. ARE YOU TRYING TO PROTECT YOUR PARTNER OR WHAT?

It does if you could keep your pants on but you failed.

We need to win sooner rather than later.

[Titus]

Literally just

read

the remaining people and work from there. If you think someone who has not been inspected could be scum, then say so.

I already have. I have proposed investigations on them. They already outed themselves as not!TD.

[Titus]

i'm here

reading stuff

you guys should also probably talk about who is the second possible lynch, right?

Sure, let's have more people slip as not!TD.

[Titus]

let me put it this way

is it a better plan for me to either confirm i'm ok with alisae as a lynch/i'm really not ok alisae as a lynch

if ok, there doesn't have to be a second name
if not ok, you guys figure out the next one

Confirm, as you could just hard townread them of you say no.

If you say yes, you defer to the group which lets natural scumhunting happen and admits E spewed themselves notTD anyway.

[Titus]

I guess my concern with titus!scum is that if titus!scum thinks it’s inevitable or highly likely that the final scum gets caught then winning is only possible via catching the TD and therefore there’s a lot of motivation to push a plan which gives as much info about the TD’s identity to scum as possible

This is fair. I'm not scum but it's a valid thing you must sort through. Because if I am not scum, you know that I think I am right and the only way to shut them off is to find them. I do think we have a wolf objecting to my plan for that very reason. What scum wouldn't love the reinvestigate plan if the other plan is safer and gets them to survival anyway? Fewer conftown who everyone is TRing anyway. If scum were in Datisi+Moment, they would be sucking up to me, like they were at the start of the day. I think the presumption was that I would go for the confirms rather than follow my VCA. Suggesting a bit of newer scum with me.

[Titus]

I’ll grant that if you’re town it means +odds on maxwell scum

Although given that I think you’re just completely wrong on what we should do here I don’t think it’s out of whack that town would also be completely baffled by what you’re pushing atm

And like let’s say we investigated (maxwell, GL, hel)

Do you not see how that is probably losing if no tea is found?

On that one, yes. Hel hasn't outed themselves as Not!TD.

We should keep the investigation in people who have already slipped not!TD as it gives scum no further information. The problem is that Town are believing in a perfect world where that hasn't happened at all.

[Titus]

The other reason why I have great doubts in you here is that you’ve been saying that I’ve slipped not-TD but again, to the extent that I have that’s been intentional and again, I assume (or hope at least) that every town has been trying to slip themselves not-TD and to slip themselves TD

So you “picking up” on those is meaningless

Yeah, that's wifom and you're trying to get me to doubt myself because it makes you feel better. It's so frustrating too because most players haven't engaged in that wifom. Dressing up slips as wifom later doesn't work, particularly when no one has slipped TD.

[Titus]

I’ve slipped TD like 3 times or something, you just didn’t see it...

Smh. They must not have been good slips then if you feel you actually did.

[Titus]

Investigate copper

[Titus]

I think investigating Datisi/Moment probably returns no tea so my hope is to attach and confirm myself. I don't think the daughter loss is a big deal if I'm gonna be eliminated/inspected tomorrow anyway.

Pedit: You get a thrill from being scumread you sicko?

If we do reinvestigate Datisi and Moment, adding you and Maxwell wouldn't be the end of the world.

[Titus]

Well I am not on board with this plan. If a plan has to be forced onto people it's not a good plan. We caught scum on Day 1 because everyone felt listened to. I feel ignored and so do others.

[Titus]

Well I am not on board with this plan. If a plan has to be forced onto people it's not a good plan. We caught scum on Day 1 because everyone felt listened to. I feel ignored and so do others.

Okay, who feels ignored and why?

I’m not ignoring you I just really strongly disagree with you for what the plan should be and icon agrees with me in this case

I’m also going to sleep now but I’ll read in the morning if you wanna try to lay out again why you think this plan is bad/wrong and why yours is better

Me Moment Alisae just for starters. The problem is the few are loudest.

I already laid out my plan as sober!Titus but maybe Drunk!Titus will have better luck.

Too many of you people slipped not TD and no amount of Wifom on that can save it. Btw, Hel already slipped not TD too.

Like I am 95% sure who the TD is it's that bad.

We need to win before scum catch up with me. That means not checking obvious town. We need to nail scum either today or tomorrow.

[Titus]

I'm considering this a moral victory even if scum guess the TD. God, I hate this mechanic.

Anyway, Titus is trying to deflect from Moment being caught, no one respond to her fishing anymore.

Oh shut up scum.

[Titus]

I swear to god if you people make me go back and read notsci's interactions with people again

Give me something fun to do while I grab another beer and try and find scummy songs.

[Titus]

I swear to god if you people make me go back and read notsci's interactions with people again

Give me something fun to do while I grab another beer and try and find scummy songs.

Help me figure out who was standing in the way between me and notscience's blood on day one and even day 2

Drunk VCA check this should be fun.

I'm thinking it's Umalut or NK15 with Maxwell. But we'll see.

[Titus]

Or are you asking me to actually reread the thread?

[Titus]

Or are you asking me to actually reread the thread?

Go wherever your heart takes it with you my friend


I'm gonna end up rereading people maybe tonight, I just don't like promising to do that because I never follow up

Well right now it's taking my drunk ass to tslk to my landlord. I can't do this work on my phone and the internet crashed.

[Titus]

The only thing you need to read is moment's next post where they ship copper or decide to get guillotined today. This game requires no further thinking.

Doesn't it, though?

Doesn't it?

Do you think I got where I am by not thinking in games?


Okay I got where I am by screaming at people but I don't do that anymore

I want this game over with today. I only need one more scum flip to do that. I could be right about alisae, that's where my gut is. But the game has stalled somewhat and fuck it, it doesn't hurt to find the third buddy.

Or who knows I might even break my original assessment that it's alisae. Having time to think about things does that to a person. I could go back and read Alisae's reaction to the wagon, for example. Did you know that I read emotion better than almost anyone on this site? It's the core to my play style. And so, when someone's having an emotional reaction, that's right up my wheelhouse dude, that's how I dayplay.

I'm going to figure out if I'm right about alisae. And if I am, I'm going to try and find the third buddy. Just for shits and giggles.

And hell if I'm wrong at least I have a jumping off point.

There has to be scum in the people shouting for a repeat investigation. That's so obviously the wrong move. I kinda waffle on Alisae because e's sticking to the sheeping me even to their peril but I may just be a sucker for those who play to my ego.

[Titus]

I am a mechanics expert. Redoing Datisi and moment is gamethrowing.

Talk me through this one.
I know you're good with mechanics, but this really seems like a stretch to me. The investigation we put on them before has been rendered meaningless by notscience's scumflip. As of now, we know absolutely nothing about their alignment, mechanically speaking, but we do know that neither of them can be the TD unless Iconeum was absurdly confident in there being real scum in the pool as well, which is.... unlikely, to say the least. Pretty sure scum won't be guessing there at any rate.
Mechanically speaking, how is rechecking them any different from checking a new pool, assuming you're correct about their slips and that scum belives you?

Titus, respond to this please.
I don't want to ignore you, but it's hard not to if you ignore me.

The presumption is false. The investigation is far from meaningless. Scum completely bussed notscience and resigned. That's because Datisi and Moment couldn't actually be lynched over notscience. They are already confirmed town because of how scum played day 2. It's a waste of an investigation entirely.

We need to investigate people who actually have a chance of flipping scum.

[Titus]

I'm thinking it's Umalut or NK15 with Maxwell. But we'll see.

then why are you so adamantly against the pool that *includes* maxwell?

Because I'm open to the chance I am wrong on maxwell. I'm not open to the suggestion that Datisi or Moment are scum though.

[Titus]

Well I am not on board with this plan. If a plan has to be forced onto people it's not a good plan. We caught scum on Day 1 because everyone felt listened to. I feel ignored and so do others.

I strongly disagree with this. For one, it's impossible to please 100% of all of you for 100% if that makes sense. I think my proposed execution (which isn't *my* proposed execution but a majority of players fy) and my proposed investigation bracket meets the requirements for a LOT of you for a big part.

It even meets some of your criteria, Titus. Maxwell is included.

If this was legit your standard, you would have investigated NK15 yesterday. It's not about the majority of players with you. This is the ICO show. Own up to it.

[Titus]

Because I'm open to the chance I am wrong on maxwell. I'm not open to the suggestion that Datisi or Moment are scum though.

and there are a bunch of other players who are paranoid about the moment/datisi bracket

i've already made it clear why my proposed plan is actually a good one, and i have not seen you to try and engage with the logic behind it

I can't engage with something I haven't seen.

The logic is

Certain slots are paranoid.
We investigate. Why?
Certain slots are paranoid.

It's circular.

[Titus]

so you say it's bad because you, moment and ali are against it, with moment and ali in the hotspot

but who is for it?

Umlaut for starters, which is someone who I have said should have been in the hotseat since day 2. He's the counterwagon and sorting that is a HUGE bonus.

[Titus]

from the top of my hat

me/RR/GL/menal/username/umlaut/norwee

others probably too?

Right and scum lose if they get investigated in a three person pool.

Investigating a repeat investigation is safe for them. They don't have to actually scumhunt. They can ignore my VCA too or my attempts because I got shouted down.

[Titus]

If this was legit your standard, you would have investigated NK15 yesterday

i think i've been clear that i have no interest in inspecting or killing NK, why do you keep pushing that?

I'm not pushing for that anymore. It's a dead horse. With the amount of people who asked for that and you straight up ignored it, don't act like your checks are a democracy. It's solely about what you think is best. And you're flat out wrong.

[Titus]

i'm actually warming up to scum!umlaut tbf

but it's probably only together with scum!ali, so i'm still flipping ali first

and like you say, umlaut was the counterwagon to SCUM, so i'm not flipping it first - would rather do ali and investigate someone on-counterwagon which is sorting that like you ask

I'm fine with whatever investigation and lynches you want as long as they aren't datisi moment or username. Those I have as hard town that I'm never moving on.

[Titus]

that's food for talk post-game, but probably not suited for this time

fp'd: re this not being a democracy according to you

According to reality. If it was a democracy, NK15 gets checked yesterday. Now, you use popular opinion as a shield. It still is the Ico show.

We'll talk post game but if there's a chance to derail this, I'm taking it.

[Titus]

i'm actually warming up to scum!umlaut tbf

but it's probably only together with scum!ali, so i'm still flipping ali first

and like you say, umlaut was the counterwagon to SCUM, so i'm not flipping it first - would rather do ali and investigate someone on-counterwagon which is sorting that like you ask

I'm fine with whatever investigation and lynches you want as long as they aren't datisi moment or username. Those I have as hard town that I'm never moving on.

it's a consensus inspect actually

moment and datisi, plus 1 new name in there
and maxwell should be fine for you, right?

Maxwell is fine. Datisi and Moment are not. I'm not sure how much clearer I can make that.

[Titus]

I need to take my medication and go to bed. I got a long day of bureaucratic nonsense or other work or setup designing tomorrow. I think I've said my piece anyway. I'll check in but I don't think I can stop the gamethrow here.

[Titus]

See. Ico no one listens to you about who is obvtown. They go along when convenient. Let's not lynch Moment or Datisi or investigate them. Put your foot down.

[Titus]

Inspect: Linen

[Titus]

VOTE: Alisae

inspect Copper

[Titus]

Very well. It looks like the fate of the game is in my hands.

I still think objectively reinvestigating was bad, and I would have argued it if I was town.

I just couldn't distance effectively.

This game turned out to be agency capture Ico, and I could only bring him so far. If only I could have bussed Datisi too.

[Titus]

I was universally townread until I had to burn all my cred on stopping the reinvest.

[Titus]

VoteCount 1.9

Iconeum [1] - Datisi
NorwegianboyEE [2] - Hel, Moment
Menalque [1] - Maki Harukawa
notscience [4] - username, Radical Rat, Titus, Menalque
Umlaut [4] - maxwell, Alisae, NorwegianboyEE, GuiltyLion
Titus [1] - Umlaut

Not Voting [4]

- Something_Smart, Iconeum, notscience, Not Known 15

With 17 alive it takes 9 votes to be executed.

Countdown to deadline: (expired on 2020-07-11 13:35:31)

I am shipping...

Linen

[10] - Alisae, Maki Harukawa, GuiltyLion, Something_Smart, Not Known 15, maxwell, Menalque, Iconeum, notscience, Umlaut

Copper

[4] - Titus, NorwegianboyEE, username, Radical Rat

Wheat

[3] - Datisi, Hel, Moment

Let's Inspect...

Linen

[1] - Radical Rat

Copper

[2] - Hel, Moment

Wheat

[3] - Umlaut, NorwegianboyEE, maxwell

Looks like the umlaut CW was all town then

It was. I wanted Umlaut to investigate as town so town would naturally go hunting on that wagon.

[Titus]

I am going to work on my setup gor Demi Lovato Mafia. My first reviewer recommended one tweak. I just need a second set of eyeballs and to finish the role PMs.

I'll legit stick to immediately in the ruleset once the mod does the hammering thing.

[Titus]

This game felt like an alternate dimension of that nomination mafia game i played back in 2019 with Titus/Menalque/GL but this time i was town.
Pretty cool.

Glad you enjoyed it. That's my goal as scum. I was kinda glad to see you as town this time. I felt like snowing you would be a good payback for that first game we had where I had to shout you 6 feet under with my VCA.

[Titus]

Hey guys, remember when I voted Titus day 1 and like three or four people called the vote terrible and said I was scum for it? Good times.

I'm always lynchbait early. Voting for early lynchbait is scummy. Therefore, voting me is scummy.

[Titus]

I felt like snowing you would be a good payback for that first game we had where I had to shout you 6 feet under with my VCA.

Which game?

I don't remember names very well. But you were all frustrated with my VCA and we somehow lynched my clear Natirasha.

[Titus]

Yeah I would have got you again with VCA too but I was too sick to actually finish off the game properly and argue for your lynch in that game where I was the D1 IC.

[Titus]

I felt like snowing you would be a good payback for that first game we had where I had to shout you 6 feet under with my VCA.

Which game?

I don't remember names very well. But you were all frustrated with my VCA and we somehow lynched my clear Natirasha.

That was Tatsuya's Anime upick. And yes, you were really annoying. Because i had pocketed almost the entire town and then you had to ruin it when you replaced in and drowned me in VCA.

There's a post in here that was a legit scumclaim when I was talking with you.

I was willing to back away from my desire for an Umlaut flip if you helped me get not!Datisi investigated. Town!Titus doesn't trade her VCA.

[Titus]

Shoot Iconeum

I'll explain the logic of this guess later on. It's not 100% certain but it's the highest likelihood. Other top contenders were NK15 and Username.

[Titus]

Props do go to Iconeum here. It's VERY hard to play in a confirmed town game resting on your shoulders place. The fact he got two scum and doubled down on it is pretty damn good. He should be proud.

[Titus]

I still think this setup needs a method to kill an outed PA to ensure this works more like mafia. It was fun none the less.

[Titus]

also, no redactions in the scum pt from me.

Same