Smuggler's Port [Game Over]
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- Radical Rat
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Alright so.
I want to execute Menalque because I have no idea how to read him and that in turn interferes with all my other reads. I'm probably scumreading him I think? But also he said in the dead thread last game we were in together that he does scummy things on purpose to make them not scummy. So yeah, I haven't figured out how to read him, and him interacting with people then makes it hard for me to read them, so I have to have him dead to read the rest of the game.
I hope that makes some kind of sense.
VOTE: Execute Menalque
VOTE: Ship Copper
VOTE: Inspect Linen- Radical Rat
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I did have other things to contribute, but shit happened IRL and I forgot. I'll probably have to read the game again later tbh.- Radical Rat
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Well it isn't so much that I don't remember anything else, so much as I don't know what to think of what I do remember. The bit about Menalque was partially typed out before the aforementioned IRL shit happened, which made it easier to remember what I was saying. Though even then, you can probably tell my focus was destroyed partway through.In post 322, Alisae wrote:
because the only thing he talked about was mena and I’m not sure how thats the only thing you can remember and pay attention to but also not remember anything elseIn post 319, Umlaut wrote:
I honestly don't understand what problem you have with this?In post 314, Alisae wrote:
WOW okIn post 312, Radical Rat wrote:I did have other things to contribute, but shit happened IRL and I forgot. I'll probably have to read the game again later tbh.
Aside from Menalque, I remember a lot of people not reading the setup, Hel being very noisy about the Tomboy Daughter, and some Danganronpa sprites being thrown around.
I'll be able to skim back through and be more substantial in probably.... Two hours? Hold me accountable to that.- Radical Rat
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Terrible timing on my part really, but I didn't want to just not post, so yeah.
Anyway, see you folks in a couple hours.- Radical Rat
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Welp, my two hours are up, so let's just start with that.
I don't really like it, but the plan there IS solid. No risk of hitting TD if PA has the final word on executions, and if they were to try to engage with the game normally that would probably make the TD obvious. And with no night kill, I can't really think of a reason PA shouldn't claim, so... Yeah.
Going to now answer the questions that we're directed at me, try to read again, and then establish myself properly- Radical Rat
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Because I think there's probably going to be at least one scum that doesn't bother to switch their merchandise.In post 382, Alisae wrote:@Radical Rat why did you vote to inspect Linen
No particular reason, I just like it best.In post 383, Alisae wrote:Also why do you plan on shipping Copper?
Well, if you had read literally the next sentence, you'd have it reconciled already, but to clarify a bit.In post 378, Menalque wrote:In post 309, Radical Rat wrote:I have no idea how to read him
Reconcile these two things for me, RRIn post 309, Radical Rat wrote:I'm probably scumreading him I think?
You have made posts I think are scummy (will get to those).
In our previous game, you immediately hammered me without warning as soon as you replaced in, with plenty of time before deadline and while I was inactive.
After you got executed the next day, you expressed in the dead thread that you intentionally do scummy things as Town, because you want to challenge the perception of these actions as scummy.
Now, there's an interesting theory discussion to be had about that, and in a way I actually admire it. But, until I get more experience with you, it also means that I can't trust myself to determine whether you're doing scummy things because you're Town being weird, or Scum using that as a shield.- Radical Rat
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See, it's shit like this. I know it's PROBABLY a joke, but what if it isn't? What if this is Town trying to double bluff to throw off scum? What if it's scum knowing that being counterclaimed on this is a horrible idea for the real ones to do? I know I'm probably reading way too much into this, but it weighed on me all thread until we got an actual PA claim.
And this sure isn't helping me un-WIFOM myself.In post 54, Menalque wrote:
But I’m aware it’s my town meta soIn post 52, Iconeum wrote:this is literally menalque's town meta
yes
i remember the darkness of that game
can you be sure?
I'm getting scum vibes here. Like "Oh darn, it sure is a shame I rolled TOWN and not scum, because I'm TOWN, and also I should mention I'm TOWN!"In post 49, Moment wrote:Despite my typical inclination towards town, I'm actually slightly disappointed to not have been made mafia here.
I don't consider myself a bad scumhunter necessarily, but I have no doubt that figuring out the TD as scum would be a much easier task for me.
I also found the rest of their posts to be largely fluff with no real conviction.
I really, really hate this post. I know it's a joke, but it still comes uncomfortably close to helping scum I think. Maybe if these "reads" didn't have reasoning I'd be less put off by it, but oof.In post 59, username wrote:
I don't remember why I quoted this, but Titus is right, Copper is better than Wheat.In post 44, Titus wrote:
I take my copper blade, stab you, and then use it to harvest wheat.In post 40, Hel wrote:Get off your copper high horse, Titus. Wheat is superior in every way. What you going to do when the war comes and food runs low, huh? I'll be here with my delicious wheat while you can try munching down on your precious copper.
I agree with this, but welp. Moot point now aside from slight towncred to GL.In post 45, GuiltyLion wrote:snip~
My problem with the PA outting early is that scum will know who they're trying to drive executions away from
I feel like we should make them have to work for it
Normally, sure, but in a game like this setup spec is exactly how we're going to find scum.In post 174, notscience wrote:Also setup spec is a good way for scum to avoid scum hunting this has been my ted talk
In post 179, Hel wrote:Tomboy Daughter Reads
- Classic Donnie is at it again. She's overcompensating here and trying to say she has nothing to fear if scum want to check her meta.Maki Harukawa
- He knows about the ToDa wincon but not this one? For most it'd be the other way around. Very daughterly.username
- Look through her ISO. She hasn't even mentioned the Daughter once. She's terrified of talking about her because sheTitusisher.
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- He agreed with my early strat of putting people we think are town on the checks to get clears. That's a terrible strat and outs Tommy, so he's never Tomboy here.maxwell
- She just seems so oblivious and lost, and she even said she wasn't ToDa. I don't think she'd lie if she was actually the Daughter.Hel
And I THINK that covers everything I wanted to talk about before.- Radical Rat
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Because if scum is on a ship, guilTea doesn't give any information about the TD. If a ship is clean, scum knows there's no TD in that group.In post 441, Alisae wrote:
why do you want to try to get a guilty > try to get a bunch if innosIn post 426, Radical Rat wrote:Because I think there's probably going to be at least one scum that doesn't bother to switch their merchandise.- Radical Rat
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Because gambler's fallacy.In post 427, Menalque wrote:
Not being able to read me is fine, but does it not make more sense to default to assuming I’m town than assuming I’m scum given that there is a much higher mathematical chance of that in any given game?In post 426, Radical Rat wrote:But, until I get more experience with you, it also means that I can't trust myself to determine whether you're doing scummy things because you're Town being weird, or Scum using that as a shield.
Seriously though, it's not that I'm defaulting to you as scum so much as just... Trying to not talk myself out of scumreading you?
Though for what it's worth I do actually think I was wrong and you are Town for less WIFOM reasons now. Prove me right, k?- Radical Rat
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I mean, that kind of thing was brought up earlier too I'm pretty sure. I think it was Titus who said it? But yeah, guilTea > innoIn post 456, Alisae wrote:ah man i sure do hope norwee didn't influence your answer!- Radical Rat
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So here's my thinking about shipments.
We send half the living players on Linen, and the other half on Copper. Who gets on which is largely irrelevant.
Conftown players get to go on the wheat ship. Today that would be NK15, provided they confirm themselves on the inspection report. Which if they don't do is a scumclaim.
We investigate either Linen or Copper, whichever we feel is more likely to have scum onboard. If Inno, everyone onboard moves to Wheat duty, and we execute from the other ship. If guilTea, we execute there.
Thoughts?- Radical Rat
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Also also, I'm a bit confused about Datisi. Listed pronoun is He, but everyone who seems to know Datisi is using she? Which one should I be using?- Radical Rat
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You know the riddle about like. You have five gold coins, and one of them is fake but weighs slightly more, and you have two uses of a balance scale to figure out which one is fake? Sometimes it's five pills and one is poison instead, but anyway the solution is to compare two on each side, then compare the two from the heavier side. If both sides are equal the first check, the one you didn't measure is fake.In post 463, NorwegianboyEE wrote:Shit plan. The ships being investigated are too large. It’s basically pointless.
That's where I'm coming from here.
Ships are large now, yes, but if we hit inno, we cut the pool in half, and if we hit guilTea we just make extra sure to lynch scum.
Since we only have to hit scum twice, I think that's manageable before the pool gets small enough to out the TD- Radical Rat
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DeliberateIn post 467, NorwegianboyEE wrote:@RadicalRat
Did you intend for the pool of people we investigate to be deliberate or random?- Radical Rat
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Because I was asked why I was inspecting Linen, and that's the reason?In post 469, Datisi wrote:
saying this aloud because...?In post 426, Radical Rat wrote:Because I think there's probably going to be at least one scum that doesn't bother to switch their merchandise.
Having an actual Port Authority claim makes me feel more at ease with all the memeing, and though I do maintain NK15 shouldn't have claimed, here we are.In post 469, Datisi wrote:
what are the less WIFOM reasons?In post 458, Radical Rat wrote:Though for what it's worth I do actually think I was wrong and you are Town for less WIFOM reasons now. Prove me right, k?
I like his proposed alternative plan to NK's, and scum doesn't really have much motivation to try to argue with a plan that would probably lead to exploitable Town apathy, especially not when doing so involves challenging an IC.
There were a couple of other recent posts I liked as well, and I think Town really needs to present a unified front in this game, so I'm fine letting him be Town unless he does something else that raises scum flags.- Radical Rat
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Sure, but I don't really see it as a huge revelation that will affect scumplay. If there was a scum lurking and they decide to pop in and dodge the inspection, that's just going to look way worse than if they had played it cool.In post 479, Datisi wrote:i guess my issue is that if you announce that "at least one scum probably won't bother to switch from Linen", that's kinda an announcement to said scum, no?
Honestly, I don't know myself. I guess it just gives me peace of mind that it probably WAS just a meaningless joke, and not either the literal worst possible move for Town to make or a crazy scumstrat made to look like that.Datisi wrote:
i guess my issue is that if you announce that "at least one scum probably won't bother to switch from Linen", that's kinda an announcement to said scum, no?In post 471, Radical Rat wrote:
Because I was asked why I was inspecting Linen, and that's the reason?In post 469, Datisi wrote:
saying this aloud because...?In post 426, Radical Rat wrote:Because I think there's probably going to be at least one scum that doesn't bother to switch their merchandise.
err, why? like, (unless mena and nk15 are scum together and this is an elaborate galaxy brain gambit, but for the sake of my sanity let's say it's not) mena - regardless of his alignment - had no way of knowing the PA was going to claim. i don't get why the claim has an effect on your read of the memeing?In post 471, Radical Rat wrote:In post 469, Datisi wrote:
what are the less WIFOM reasons?In post 458, Radical Rat wrote:Though for what it's worth I do actually think I was wrong and you are Town for less WIFOM reasons now. Prove me right, k?Having an actual Port Authority claim makes me feel more at ease with all the memeing, and though I do maintain NK15 shouldn't have claimed, here we are.
I like his proposed alternative plan to NK's, and scum doesn't really have much motivation to try to argue with a plan that would probably lead to exploitable Town apathy, especially not when doing so involves challenging an IC.
There were a couple of other recent posts I liked as well, and I think Town really needs to present a unified front in this game, so I'm fine letting him be Town unless he does something else that raises scum flags.- Radical Rat
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Why is randomness preferable to Scum plotting and (potentially) making a mistake? Or at least leaving some kind of pattern to it that we could pick up on?- Radical Rat
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Correct, so can I count on your support?In post 524, Umlaut wrote:though also seem a bit like cat-herding; his plan in 460 requires close to unanimous agreement to be workable- Radical Rat
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I don't think there's much difference in the wincons anyway. No matter which one is their primary objective, scum needs to stay alive and find the TD. I don't want to go into too much detail, but I really don't see much room for divergence.Titus wrote:
First, people will have reactions to a plot suggestion. Those can help determine alignments.In post 527, Radical Rat wrote:Why is randomness preferable to Scum plotting and (potentially) making a mistake? Or at least leaving some kind of pattern to it that we could pick up on?
Second, determining if scum made a mistake is near impossible without knowing which wincondition they go for. Each wincondition would want a different setup on investigations. If scum go for wincondition A but the investigation matches wincondition B, that hurts scum.
And even then, I don't see how randomness helps at all. I much prefer letting scum do things that might get them caught instead of offloading to luck.- Radical Rat
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Well, ideally the TD would just play like any of the rest of us, preventing scum from picking up anything in-thread. So that would give them a pool of four or five depending on whether the 8 ship or the 7 ship gets the inno. We'll assume four, so scum has a 25% chance of correctly identifying TD in this case.In post 530, Umlaut wrote:I have to think about it more. I'm worried that innoing half the players reduces cover for the TD too much; for example we could end up with a pool of 8 confirmed innos and then 7 players of whom three are smugglers and one is the TD. Given that this is the pool we're executing from this makes it very easy for them to narrow that down.
I think that's acceptable if it comes down to it. We just need to be sure not to misclown.- Radical Rat
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Yes, those are the two approaches they could take, though either could easily serve either wincon. But again. Why is removing the choice a good thing? Why would we deny ourselves the opportunity to watch for a scum pattern?In post 538, Titus wrote:There is an absolute difference in wincons.
If they feel they cannot survive lynches, they'd use the shipments to narrow down the TD. Thus, they'd pile onto one.
If they can survive via lynching, they'd spread out.
By doing random, it removes the choice.- Radical Rat
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Doubling down on a suicidal counterclaim. Removing the PA also removes the TD's only real protection, and while it would make her harder to identify, if NK15 holds true to not really playing except to approve executions, he probably wouldn't help much anyway.In post 546, Datisi wrote:if it were a crazy scumstart, how'd you expect mena to act once the Real PA came out?
So then the TD is available to misclown and win that way, and after Menalque flips scum, you'd probably get pushed as his partner. Not sure if the execution would actually happen or not, but I think this rabbit hole is deep enough as it is.- Radical Rat
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Kuribo's right though that trying to bait out anger, regardless of identity, is probably scummy. If you are Town it's just a good way to get yourself death tunneled (See: current situation).- Radical Rat
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I'm comfortable sheeping on this.
VOTE: Execute notscience
Tentative scumteam guess: notscience/Hel/Moment.- Radical Rat
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Well, I did saycrazyscumstrat.
Plus, there's always the possibility you're scum with him. You are right about waiting to do the execution, but I also feel like it would kind of dominate the discussion and make it really difficult to get much else done.
Regardless, none of this happened, and I don't think there's much to be gained from playing this entire hypothetical game out.- Radical Rat
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Still catching up, but I just want to clarify that I meant I don't like that NK15 claimed so early so that he could drive the executions while also not even really playing. It makes the game less fun, and I think Port Authority is more valuable hidden.In post 824, Iconeum wrote:earlier scummy vibes and here 'not really liking the plan, but thinking it's solid nontheless'?
However, since he DID claim, the plan he proposed was indeed solid. I didn't (and don't) LIKE it, but it would have a pretty good chance of working.- Radical Rat
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Okay, so. Idk what NK15 is at right now, but after a VC I intend to vote there unless it's hammering.
I don't like that Ico claimed instead of just letting the lack of confirmation on the inspection condemn NK instead, but what's done is done.
I would like to now amend my earlier plan for inspections. I want NK15 alone on a ship, and we investigate that one. Ico also confirms its claim of course.
Hopefully they're both Town and this is all just a huge misunderstanding, but as of right now I'm feeling NK15 is scummier out of this situation.
P-Edit: I'm a dumbass and typed this out nearly 20 hours ago but forgot to hit post. Pretend this was on Page 36, and I'll read again and hopefully be current in the morning.- Radical Rat
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Page 38, my bad.
Past few days have been a bit rough on me, sorry for the constant disorientation- Radical Rat
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Okay, I skimmed instead of sleeping, and yeah, I stand by everything I said above with a side of Large Suspicion on everyone insisting NK15 has to die RIGHT NOW or he somehow survives the whole game.
We have the means to get either a modclear or modguilty on him. His fakeclaim strat makes no sense as Town, and very little sense as Scum, and I see no downside to making sure before we kill anybody.
Also I'm now reading my earlier post and don't know why I said I'd be voting NK15 at the same time as saying I want to investigate him instead... I guess I changed my mind mid-post? Idfk.- Radical Rat
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Why not by himself? If he's Town and Scum winds up on the same ship, then we just end up Misclowning him anyway. If he's Scum, then having any number of other people on that ship doesn't give us any more information than if he were alone.In post 1077, Iconeum wrote:
i don't really like this idea for a variety of reasonsIn post 1075, Radical Rat wrote:Okay, so. Idk what NK15 is at right now, but after a VC I intend to vote there unless it's hammering.
I don't like that Ico claimed instead of just letting the lack of confirmation on the inspection condemn NK instead, but what's done is done.
I would like to now amend my earlier plan for inspections. I want NK15 alone on a ship, and we investigate that one. Ico also confirms its claim of course.
Hopefully they're both Town and this is all just a huge misunderstanding, but as of right now I'm feeling NK15 is scummier out of this situation.
P-Edit: I'm a dumbass and typed this out nearly 20 hours ago but forgot to hit post. Pretend this was on Page 36, and I'll read again and hopefully be current in the morning.
and i'm also contemplating not pushing NK for execution today
we can put him in the investigation bracket, but not by himself- Radical Rat
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I would still like an answer to this please.In post 1079, Radical Rat wrote:Why not by himself? If he's Town and Scum winds up on the same ship, then we just end up Misclowning him anyway. If he's Scum, then having any number of other people on that ship doesn't give us any more information than if he were alone.- Radical Rat
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Also HARD disagree with NK15 and maxwell that having a claimed PA this early is good. Honestly, PA should probably have gone the whole game without claiming, instead gently guiding us away from investigating the TD, because guess what? EVEN IF Ico had claimed in Post #1, confirmed identity in the first report, and then the slot never made a single other post in the game... that's one less player for scum to potentially guess wrong about being TD.
This game should not have been turned into Follow The IC, and I'm really quite annoyed at this whole situation. Honestly, the more I think about it the more it seems likely to me that NK15 was scum sacrificing himself in the hopes of baiting out the real PA. I'm still not executing him today when we have the means to 100% confirm his alignment, but yeah.- Radical Rat
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We have five days to catch two out of three scum. Four inspections to work with.In post 1100, maxwell wrote:Because we can check a group of people today and get more info that way, spending an entire check on a single guy means we have much less to work with tomorrow.
Normally, I'd agree that we should be checking more people. See my first plan for inspections, where I proposed doing half the game at once.
In this particular instance though, using the inspection as a public cop check seems smarter. Misclowns are much more dangerous than a sub-optimal inspection in this set up, and while I AM currently scumreading NK15, I'd like to be sure he's not just Town who made a giant mistake scum's taking advantage of. So I want him alive, and I want his ship inspected. If we do get other people on that ship, the only way we get substantially more information is if the result is clean, but then that also helps the scumteam just as much. Putting NK on alone gives us information that we can use to avoid killing a Merchant, and tells scum nothing that they don't already know. This is the correct play.
I know my mind's been a bit scattered this game, but this I am absolutely sure on.- Radical Rat
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This is a very good post.In post 1102, Moment wrote:It's such wishful thinking to me to think that NK15 is scum. Either wishful thinking or pure laziness.
People just see "Oh, looks like he got caught fakeclaiming" and their brains stop thinking past that point. There can't be any more nuance, anyone who did that must be scum. Yes SS, I've already heard and responded to you talking about the scum motivation, you don't need to say it again. I feel as though you're making a failure of theory of mind – I don't think you're properly trying to think from NK15's perspective. I think his posts from the rest of this day strongly evidence the fact that he has pretty strong convictions in the setup that you're not considering when you think about motivation.
To anyone who says anything along the line of "well he'll always be a question mark so we have to deal with him", your mindset is truly flawed. There is nothing forcing your hand. Any sort of "obligation" you feel is completely constructed. Obviously you feel as though he's scum for what he's done, but my main point here is that that's just anelementof aread, not any sort of obligation that something "must" happen. I say this because I think thinking along the lines of how someone "has to die anyways" is poison to thought. I have experienced it before where someoneagreed with meon reasons to townread someone they thought had to die before endgame, and yetstillthey said "It doesn't matter anyways if I townread her, because she can't live to lylo".
There, just as it is here, I feel that once people had constructed in their head that someone could not live to the endgame, the relevance of reads on that player was out. Death eventually had to come, and specific arguments didn't really matter because of course she has to die anyways. I don't feel as though that mindset is germane to having a discussion or to winning the game.
This upsets me even further because NK15 is already among the least eloquent, least charismatic, most mislynched players on the entire site. If you're wondering why I keep making comments about making the same mistakes over and over, it's because I see the same players get lynched over and over by the same other players. Adding the situation with the PA on top of that is just too much. I was in the same situation as NK15 once upon a time, and I got out of it only through a grueling few days ofconstantargumentationandpushing a wagon on scum over myself. Of course NK15 was never going to get out of it. It just feels so unjust.
I wonder if some people even believe in the scumread themselves – truly believe, rather than just belief in belief. You're calling him a "douche" and getting really angry at him. What's the point of that if it was just a scum ploy to do whatever?In post 1082, Iconeum wrote:the one thing i was unsure about was how to handle these douches who thought it was smart to fake claim PA and try to fake-lead on town- Radical Rat
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Talk me through this one? I'm thinking nulltown on him myself, he seems to be pretty genuine, and though some of his pushes have been for weak reasons, it IS D1.
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Except that having the PA a known force in the game driving all the executions has a significantly higher chance of outing the TD than a carefully playing hidden PA, as now scum will be scrutinizing every single read or post or suggestion Ico makes to try to figure it out.
Also, literally no one is suggesting we just DON'T SORT NK15...
In fact, let's get you "sorted," shall we?
VOTE: Execute maxwell- Radical Rat
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I'm not saying that we all blindfold ourselves and stumble mindlessly through the game. I'm also not saying that the PA shouldn't work to protect the TD. I'm saying that the PA does this from the shadows, without claiming that's who they are or what they're doing. Think of it like defending your mason buddy before you're ready or able to claim being masons.
This also ignores the fact that the TD is an active player in the game with (presumably) a brain. She'd be trying to avoid being on the inspected ship, while otherwise playing the game normally, hunting scum, making reads, the usual.
Now that the PA is outed, it has two options. Refrain from posting as much as possible, or drop scum tons of clues about who the TD is. That's bad for us as a Town.- Radical Rat
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Sure, we won't execute the TD by accident. But if we ever try to and PA has to block it? We lose anyway, because now scum knows who she is.- Radical Rat
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Okay, what if they're all scum? We execute one, and then what? We check the same people again?- Radical Rat
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I'm not saying we DON'T investigate. In fact, that's literally the opposite of what I'm saying. I'm saying we use today's investigation specifically to get 100% confirmation about the alignment of a slot that could just as easily be easy misclown bait as it could be suicidal scum. I'm pretty sure he's scum, but we have the means to be absolutely sure, so I think we should use those means.In post 1123, Something_Smart wrote:
Say what? Inspection is the only advantage we have, otherwise the game is the scumsided hellscape that Moment described. Most games have town executions because no town has perfect read accuracy, especially on D1 when we have no information from the mechanics yet (aside from Icon coming out).In post 1104, Radical Rat wrote:Misclowns are much more dangerous than a sub-optimal inspection in this set up
And yes, most games do have town executions. Most games also don't have a mechanic where scum can turn a loss into a win by pointing out a specific Town player. Extra caution is warranted in this case, to prevent doing scum's job for them.- Radical Rat
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This is great if it works, but my problem is the only way we get definite information is if the result is innocent. But in that case, scum benefits more than we do anyway because it's removing 3-5 names from their pool of TD candidates. A list that is already down to either 12 if NK is Town, 13 if he's not. Right now we have an opportunity that is unlikely to present itself again. An unconfirmed player outside of the potential TD list, who is in danger of being executed. A clear result on NK and NK alone provides scum with 0 new information, AND saves us a misclown. A guilTea result gives us a guaranTead scum kill, and still gives no new information to scum.In post 1122, maxwell wrote:
That is extremely unlikely, but: tomorrow, if we find tea in that group, we eliminate one, and re-inspect half of the remaining players in our day 1 inspection, no matter what. If we eliminate scum AND catch them with the second inspection, great! We literally win the game because we had a good pool and PoE'd scum early.In post 1120, Radical Rat wrote:Okay, what if they're all scum? We execute one, and then what? We check the same people again?
For the remaining checks we can do the small group method, but this particular check should be specific.- Radical Rat
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Under normal circumstances, yes, however:In post 1127, Something_Smart wrote:We also have the means to be absolutely sure of 3-4 people being town. That doesn't sound better to you?Radical Rat wrote:
This is great if it works, but my problem is the only way we get definite information is if the result is innocent. But in that case, scum benefits more than we do anyway because it's removing 3-5 names from their pool of TD candidates. A list that is already down to either 12 if NK is Town, 13 if he's not. Right now we have an opportunity that is unlikely to present itself again. An unconfirmed player outside of the potential TD list, who is in danger of being executed. A clear result on NK and NK alone provides scum with 0 new information, AND saves us a misclown. A guilTea result gives us a guaranTead scum kill, and still gives no new information to scum.In post 1122, maxwell wrote:
That is extremely unlikely, but: tomorrow, if we find tea in that group, we eliminate one, and re-inspect half of the remaining players in our day 1 inspection, no matter what. If we eliminate scum AND catch them with the second inspection, great! We literally win the game because we had a good pool and PoE'd scum early.In post 1120, Radical Rat wrote:Okay, what if they're all scum? We execute one, and then what? We check the same people again?
For the remaining checks we can do the small group method, but this particular check should be specific.- Radical Rat
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My primary concern is that a guilTea result on a hypothetical Town!NK who is on a ship with other slots is a wasted execution, because realistically there's no way in hell he's getting away after being caught on a tea boat after this stunt.
If it were literally anyone else, I wouldn't be pushing this so hard because it will be much harder for scum to push a misclown without a fakeclaim to attack.- Radical Rat
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Okay, I'll relent on this actually.
After typing and deleting many attempts at both, my previous post and this one, I've come to the conclusion that I'm being pessimistic with regards to our collective ability to scumhunt in the presence of Objectively Anti-Town Behavior, because it just feels too easy, while simultaneously being optimistic about our collective ability to scumhunt just through conversation. As a result, I'm getting caught up in unlikely scenarios that haven't happened yet and losing objectivity.
I do maintain my earlier stance that having a claimed PA is more of a liability than an asset, and I do still think we should wait to execute NK15 until tomorrow, but I'll let the inspection happen in a group. I'll also volunteer myself to be in that group because I know I probably don't look super great right now, and wouldn't mind getting cleared alongside NK if it comes down to that.- Radical Rat
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I'll admit my early stance on Menalque was trash, yeah. I attributed too much of my confusion to him when in reality it was due to several of the people shitposting, as well as my own mental state at the time. I also expected myself to caught up tunneling him and figured getting him out of the way fast was the best way around that.
I'm still not at all confident in reading him, but I'm definitely not still in favor of essentially policy clowning on him.- Radical Rat
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4/9 by my count.In post 1199, GuiltyLion wrote:how many votes is Maki at now? I think I'm already voting to inspect wheat- Radical Rat
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This was absolutely avoidable, and I agree that this isn't fun.
NK15 shouldn't have fakeclaimed, Ico shouldn't have counterclaimed, and NK15 definitely shouldn't be getting out of this without being executed or inspected...
But here we are anyway, best to just go with it for now, and we can always just... Not listen to Ico next time if we don't wanna.- Radical Rat
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Although I will say that Maki "not posting anything AI" within an entire week is probably AI in itself? Idk, guess we'll find out.- Radical Rat
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Okay, absolutely bonkers idea here, buuuut
Iconeum/NK15/notscience scumteam.- Radical Rat
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See, I agree with this, but I also can't imagine Ico not outing when it ALREADY CLAIMED. The only explanation is that Ico fakeclaimed, which would have been suicidal if NK actually were the PA. And if Ico is Town, it can't know that NK was fakeclaiming. Scum!Ico also can't know that Town!NK was faking.In post 1417, Umlaut wrote:
I'm happy to entertain bonkers ideas, but I really can't imagine the PA not outing if this were the case.In post 1415, Radical Rat wrote:Okay, absolutely bonkers idea here, buuuut
Iconeum/NK15/notscience scumteam.
But a crazy scum Gambit in which no matter which one of them gets branded the fake and lynched, the other looks Town??? Might just work.- Radical Rat
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I think notscience is a good execution for today.
NK15 needs to be in the investigation pool though, remember all that talk about how we can't let him live to endgame? That's what's going to happen if we keep putting off dealing with the slot.- Radical Rat
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Also, I have no intention of following Iconeum's direction from now on. As far as I'm concerned, by failing to identify in the report, it's forfeited its claim to the role.- Radical Rat
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How? It's in the setup post. It's in the role PM. It's been talked about in thread several times. I don't see how it could possibly be unaware of that unless it just... Literally is not reading the game, in which case what the hell was the deal with dictating the execution and inspection yesterday?In post 1445, Alisae wrote:icon not revealing himself was likely dumb and him not knowing tbh- Radical Rat
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@Mod: What happens if we do accidentally execute the PA? Will we still receive Inspection Reports?- Radical Rat
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