Smuggler's Port [Game Over]

[Iconeum]

hardclaim port authority

datisi is the tomboy daughter

Ship: linen

Vote: Iconeum

for an

iconic

D1 execution![/b]

this is literally menalque's town meta

yes

i remember the darkness of that game

[Iconeum]

vla weekend :p

i didn't hard counterclaim you so am i scum?

[Iconeum]

31 pages over the weekend alrighty catching up over the next hours

[Iconeum]

VOTE: Iconeum

OMGUS

[Iconeum]

Tomboy Daughter Reads

Maki Harukawa

- Classic Donnie is at it again. She's overcompensating here and trying to say she has nothing to fear if scum want to check her meta.

username

- He knows about the ToDa wincon but not this one? For most it'd be the other way around. Very daughterly.

Titus

- Look through her ISO. She hasn't even mentioned the Daughter once. She's terrified of talking about her because she

is

her.

-----------------

maxwell

- He agreed with my early strat of putting people we think are town on the checks to get clears. That's a terrible strat and outs Tommy, so he's never Tomboy here.

Hel

- She just seems so oblivious and lost, and she even said she wasn't ToDa. I don't think she'd lie if she was actually the Daughter.

Give me one town reason why you'd post this or I'm going to assume it was meant for the scum PT

omg i actually missed this

i hope this gets adressed because i see exactly no reason why this isn't a PT slip

[Iconeum]

reading thru page 8 and literally can't stop laughing

oh yeah also

Consider my vote is on hell right now, in spirit
don't wanna quickhammer accidently now

copper

inspect

did i do that right?

[Iconeum]

Allow me to ask my question again more specifically – what is it specifically about that question that furthers your understanding of my alignment?

This was the important part of that post.

But I also don't like Moment completely dropping the issue after Norwee dismissed him, rather than pursuing it further.

I am cyrus62

.

for starters, i can read what ur saying
second, you haven't deathtunneled me yet

[Iconeum]

Kind of like Menalque for town but can't really explain it

Kind of like GuiltyLion for town too

I'm definitely not going to actually read this game so my goal is to just get random town-pings which I then take as revealed truths and vote whoever is left.

i... like this post i guess?

it's so casual it makes me wanna townread it

[Iconeum]

Wait @Menalque I'm legit scumreading Dats, are you not? Want to talk about it?

I am not SRing dats and don’t see anything out of the normal for her early D1 play. I don’t think she’s abnormally timid at all really?

Idk I didn't feel any excitement from her about playing this game and when I poked her on that front she straight up acknowledged it wasn't there. Maybe this is egocentric but we've joked many times about wanting to finally win together as town and I'm not getting that vibe

lmao ya ur locktown
VOTE: datisi

agree with the townread on GL, but the datisi read is meh

[Iconeum]

Thanks for scumclaiming

[Iconeum]

VOTE: Iconeum

Thanks for scumclaiming. I'm not moving my vote until Ico or I is dead.

come at me bruuh

[Iconeum]

Obviously, old friend.

one does not simply impersonate Cyrus the virus, and i can tell you this ain't it

[Iconeum]

i'm supposed to be catching up, stop making me look up good memes

[Iconeum]

I think GL and ali are both scum, or if not I think there is likely one scum in there

[Iconeum]

Alright so.
I want to execute Menalque because I have no idea how to read him and that in turn interferes with all my other reads. I'm probably scumreading him I think? But also he said in the dead thread last game we were in together that he does scummy things on purpose to make them not scummy. So yeah, I haven't figured out how to read him, and him interacting with people then makes it hard for me to read them, so I have to have him dead to read the rest of the game.

I hope that makes some kind of sense.
VOTE: Execute Menalque
VOTE: Ship Copper
VOTE: Inspect Linen

this can be scum however

[Iconeum]

Also to anyone else
Is it weird that I find RR’s post scummy, because I feel like its weird to immediately post something like that as your first post in the game
I have literally not see anyone enter the thread like that as their first post so its weird.

ali it's good we are both town together

now if you could just recognize town!ico here, this can become a good game

[Iconeum]

Welp, my two hours are up, so let's just start with that.

I don't really like it, but the plan there IS solid. No risk of hitting TD if PA has the final word on executions, and if they were to try to engage with the game normally that would probably make the TD obvious. And with no night kill, I can't really think of a reason PA shouldn't claim, so... Yeah.


Going to now answer the questions that we're directed at me, try to read again, and then establish myself properly

we are executing RR today

earlier scummy vibes and here 'not really liking the plan, but thinking it's solid nontheless'?

[Iconeum]

BTW I’m ok killing off icon ig

ali pls no

[Iconeum]

i'm actually almost done with my catchup

[Iconeum]

fun fact: i have 2 tabs open

1 for reading the game
and a 2nd for live interaction because i love to do that a LOT more then catching up

[Iconeum]

fun fact: i have 2 tabs open

1 for reading the game
and a 2nd for live interaction because i love to do that a LOT more then catching up

is this a normal thing for u

actually it is
i enjoy the live interaction portion of the game over anything else

so 'im caught up and have thoroughly skimmed the majority of the game

kinda

[Iconeum]

all of datisi, menal, gl, ali, umlaut townreads

don't like hell and RR

username (if that even is his real username) can be town on town alone i guess

i absolutely do NOT believe the current Harbourmaster claim thingy, but D2 will confirm him anyway and if it doesn't, we can kill him on D2 anyway

[Iconeum]

yeah that's about my reads in a nuthsell right now

i'm not even displeased by that

[Iconeum]

i've not seen much AI-indicative stuff for Titus but that's assuming I know what is AI for Titus which I don't

[Iconeum]

Y do you not believe Nk15’s claim?

we've had 2 or 3 claims already? i don't think the real one is gonna hard claim on D1 and take control over this game
but like i said, he's either an IC on D2 because game mod will conf him, or he won't be and then we execute him (almost dropped the L-word woopsie)

[Iconeum]

do you believe that claim?

[Iconeum]

if he isn't mod confirmed on D2, we are having a talk about what allignment would fake claim like this

[Iconeum]

Hel, where are you getting the impression i'm taking *any* claim seriously so far? I think i'm doing the opposite?

I don't reallly like your slot because I don't see much pro-town in some of your play v other people

It's either very trolly (and admittedly very funny :p - but not helpfull), or straightup anti town up until a full blown scumslip (pt slip).

[Iconeum]

The "PT slip" included herself Ico. Are you serious with this? Lmao.

i'm not, actually

but Hel asked me where the dislike came from and I answered it

[Iconeum]

You don't see a difference between Not Known 15's claim and all the joke claims? You can just tell NK15 isn't the type to joke around, and his claim looks serious in the way he way he lays out a plan after claiming.
In contrast to that, the other "claims" are brief and obviously jokes from people who have otherwise joked around this game.

Don't go trying to dumbtell with me, Ico; you really don't see a difference there?

there's an Obvious difference in joke-claims and what NK claimed, but that doesn't mean i have to buy it and i'm absolutely dead serious when i say i'm baffled that *literally anyone* is taking it seriously

and i'm also dead serious that i wanna see it mod confirmed on D2 or i'm deathtunneling there

[Iconeum]

Okay, Enough is Enough.

I am the Port Authority. I was waiting to claim to gauge reactions to Not Known's claim before this. I even distanced from the role by calling it "shipmaster".

As the IC Port Authority, I now have full control over this game. Starting from now, you must ask me for permission whenever you want to do any of the following:

• Place a vote
• Ask a question
• Grab a pagetop
• Post a non-anime meme

Breaking any of these rules will be considered a scumclaim. Once I am happy with the day's content, I will post someone's name, and we will IMMEDIATLEY

lynch

clown that person, no questions asked.

why the fuck were you questioning my doubt about someone claiming when you KNEW i was correct in the first place??????????????

that is, if you even are the actual port authorita

[Iconeum]

right, you wouldn't have questioned me that much if you were the actual PA so your claim is fake as well

gottit

[Iconeum]

i'm absolutely dead serious when i say i'm baffled that *literally anyone* is taking it seriously

what, um

what exactly makes you think that NK15 does that as a joke?

well it just got CC'd

also never said he'd do it as a joke - i said i wanna talk about why someone would lie about it in the first place (if he doesn't turn IC on D2)

[Iconeum]

can we back up just a little bit i'm getting lost

I can see why you think Hel is taking the pun with the game right now - sure

But I don't see the problem you have with me not believing that claim from NK

[Iconeum]

i said i wanna talk about why someone would lie about it in the first place (if he doesn't turn IC on D2)

Sure, we can talk about this.

The answer is, they wouldn't! There is no conceivable benefit to lying about this, unless you are scum and you are so convinced that you will be executed on day 1 that you will do this to avoid it. So assuming that NK does not feel that way (and I would like to believe he gives himself more credit than that), he would not lie about this.

Who feels the same way about this?

[Iconeum]

hi ico why am i not townreading you

hello don't worry you will

[Iconeum]

From my experience with NK15 i could easily see them make a claim like this. (Even though i find it annoying that they did so)

fake or ?

[Iconeum]

But I don't see the problem you have with me not believing that claim from NK

Not believing the claim and not taking it seriously are two very different things.

It sounds like you are taking it seriously, but not believing it. And you're having trouble understanding why people are believing it?

Even though there's every reason for the real PA to claim there, and I expect NK to know this, and there's every reason for the real PA to counterclaim if it's fake, and nobody has, and there's no good reason for any player, including the tomboy daughter, to fakeclaim it, and I expect NK to know this, and the claim can be confirmed tomorrow anyway, so there is little damage in assuming it is true.

Is that enough of an explanation for you?

Well ok then. I hate to do this right now but for some reason this shit Always happens (ask menal and datisi and even Alisae for what it's worth)

i'm the PA and i'm not fucking kidding

why the hell do you think i'm fighting for that claim here???

[Iconeum]

i suggest we lynch outside of the claims today, and the real PA will show up tomorrow anyway giving town that 'free scum lynch'

[Iconeum]

there was no downside to doing so.

i am *not good* with mechanics and was fishing to see what i would need to do here

[Iconeum]

well i'm definitely town and i'm definitely not fakeclaiming

you'll see as much come morning

[Iconeum]

i'm gonna go lay down now

ur acting surprised

i don't get that

this shit literally Always happens to me

[Iconeum]

and also

i'm conftown to you weeeee

[Iconeum]

i'm not going to hard-direct anyone here...

however for day 1, i think we either make a pool of 3 people that we think will 'flip town'. This should establish a good townblock for tomorrow, at which point we make a second block to investigate for scum in a much smaller pool.

Or we make a pool of 3 to 4 people with the scumblock in them, in which we scumhunt tomorrow

y/n?
on a scale of 1 to dragonite wtf have you been drinking how bad is this suggestion?

[Iconeum]

as for a means of work

i think it's ok to have everyone be shipping linnen, and be voting to inspect wheat

and we discuss about who to be shipping wheat (3-4 players?)

[Iconeum]

as for exectution, right now NK is just a good choice and alternatively in the 'unknowns' like a Mari

[Iconeum]

ship: linnen

inspect: wheat

[Iconeum]

I think 5 is too large of a pool

if you make it 4 i'd put datisi/maki/SS/ + either NK (if we don't exectue him - and with Tea found he's probably first to go anyway) or maybe someone like Moment/notscience in it if we execute NK

[Iconeum]

thoughts?

[Iconeum]

Okay, so. Idk what NK15 is at right now, but after a VC I intend to vote there unless it's hammering.

I don't like that Ico claimed instead of just letting the lack of confirmation on the inspection condemn NK instead, but what's done is done.

I would like to now amend my earlier plan for inspections. I want NK15 alone on a ship, and we investigate that one. Ico also confirms its claim of course.

Hopefully they're both Town and this is all just a huge misunderstanding, but as of right now I'm feeling NK15 is scummier out of this situation.

P-Edit: I'm a dumbass and typed this out nearly 20 hours ago but forgot to hit post. Pretend this was on Page 36, and I'll read again and hopefully be current in the morning.

i don't really like this idea for a variety of reasons

and i'm also contemplating not pushing NK for execution today
we can put him in the investigation bracket, but not by himself

[Iconeum]

Ok, Iconeum plays horribly, as PA.

Ho hum, and a big 'ol middlefinger to you 2, chap!
I didn't wanna be in this position in day 1, but *someone* forced my hand

as far as mechanics go, i assure you i have been understanding them since i signed up for this.

the one thing i was unsure about was how to handle these douches who thought it was smart to fake claim PA and try to fake-lead on town

[Iconeum]

Icon tho seriously when are you gonna stop CCing people who claim your PR

Why do people always fake claim my role?

Ali, I don't see a problem. You can scumhunt to your heart's content if you help make a good bracket for investigation

[Iconeum]

But, you've named names, so now we're committed to those.

not really

i'm going to be naming a lot of names

[Iconeum]

i would like to see people making their scummiest looking brackets of 3 that they wanna see investigated

[Iconeum]

i'll post my final 3 tomorrow and we simply execute NK

right?

[Iconeum]

Everone goes on linen

except for Datisi/Moment/notscience - they go to wheat

everyone is voting to inspect wheat

we are executing Maki

(really sorry to have to play like this, i tried my best not having to out but here we are)

[Iconeum]

just wanna make sure everone is in the right spot before we start hammering down on Maki

[Iconeum]

can everyone who's butthurt about me calling the action on Day 1 stop crying please?

Like I said, the matter was forced. This is probably the best play for Day 1 right now. There will be no changing this.


Day 2 will be another matter entirely, and all of town will be needed to sort the information we have.
I think a 2-lynch option in which I may or may not veto sounds good.

Even the investigation pool we can do something like that.
But right now, this is set in stone and I'm sorry for that.

As for the why's and why not's, I really don't see why I should be explaining anything to anyone right now.

[Iconeum]

more crying please

[Iconeum]

i love it

[Iconeum]

i really don't wanna talk about what ur actually saying here until post game

[Iconeum]

kthxbye

[Iconeum]

menal wtf dude

[Iconeum]

I’m amazed that you’re surprised at this when your reaction to mine and others displeasure at the fact that you’ve decided to completely strongarm the game was “lol keep crying”

have you read my posts?

[Iconeum]

can everyone who's butthurt about me calling the action on Day 1 stop crying please?

Like I said, the matter was forced. This is probably the best play for Day 1 right now. There will be no changing this.

Day 2 will be another matter entirely, and all of town will be needed to sort the information we have.
I think a 2-lynch option in which I may or may not veto sounds good.

Even the investigation pool we can do something like that.

But right now, this is set in stone and I'm sorry for that.

As for the why's and why not's, I really don't see why I should be explaining anything to anyone right now.

[Iconeum]

I’m amazed that you’re surprised at this when your reaction to mine and others displeasure at the fact that you’ve decided to completely strongarm the game was “lol keep crying”

how the fuck have i decided on anything like that

[Iconeum]

Like I explicitly said it was bullshit when NK tried to do that, offered a reasonable compromise (2 wagons, PA picks) and now you’ve decided— not been forced, to be clear — actively decided to do that anyway despite there not being anything like consensus on maki as a guillo target

i've agreed that this will be the play from day 2 onwards (consensus on wagons and PA picks), however i think it's much better to do this on Day 1 and follow that plan from there onwards

[Iconeum]

Because generally, when I’m the IC who knows the identity of the game losing role, if I tell everyone “this is what we’re doing” I’d probably say I’m strongarming the gsme

i'm not

[Iconeum]

Because generally, when I’m the IC who knows the identity of the game losing role, if I tell everyone “this is what we’re doing” I’d probably say I’m strongarming the gsme

if ur town, pull your head out of your ass and wake up and play the game

everything is fine

and there is lot's of play without strongarming to come tomorrow and after that

[Iconeum]

I’m amazed that you’re surprised at this when your reaction to mine and others displeasure at the fact that you’ve decided to completely strongarm the game was “lol keep crying”

This was not purely iconeum's decision but one necessitated by the circumstances. I would've appreciated it if you hadn't just tossed out of spite.

It was exactly, entirely, and uniquely icon’s decision to dictate who the investigation pool would be and who the guillo would be today

Maybe it’s a wonderful choice and maki will flip scum and the pool will have tea and we’ll execute NK tomorrow and have a glorious win and ride off into the sunset, but it’s barely mafia and it’s certainly not mafia that I will have any fun playing and I think it makes it barely Mafia at all

and how is this any of my fault?

[Iconeum]

also i think this game might have a surprise or 2 left

maybe

[Iconeum]

however i think it's much better to do this on Day 1 and follow that plan from there onwards

Why is today any different and why should I trust you not to end up pulling this exact same BS tomorrow 2 days before deadline because you “had to”

wait are you just scum here?

[Iconeum]

omg

ur literally actively trying to get on my nerve so i start spilling more beans lol

[Iconeum]

Explain why we should guillo maki and why those people should be in the pool to be investigated, and if we agree we’ll vote for this things and if we don’t, we won’t?

i think it's anti-wincon for me to truthfully answer this actually

[Iconeum]

and i feel you should know that?

[Iconeum]

Jfc

You’ve played like 10 games or something with me, at least 3 where I was scum and you still have no idea what my scumgame looks like apparently

that's true but i think i have a reasonable read on your towngame and prior to our discussion here i was happy townreading you

this feels like ur very agitated (and i completely understand that btw)

so i'm asking you

if you are town here

chill out and let this day play out

and sleep well knowing there will be plenty to do tomorrow

guarantees? obviously not but i mean, i'm an IC and you know I mean what i say about day 2 and onwards

[Iconeum]

There is a case to say you shouldn’t explain the pool, I’ll grant that

But no reason not to explain maki given that she’s already confirmed as not TD

at this point there's not a whole lot of grounds to argue about it, as it's indeed confirmed not TD

and you already said it's not a *terrible* execution, right?

[Iconeum]

If you do this tomorrow Icon I’m literally not posting again other than prodging

ship: linen

completely fair

if we lived any closer i'd say let's go have a drink and chill out

[Iconeum]

I think this is a waste of a lynch and I think you unilaterally deciding who it should be as opposed to trying to utilise what are several competent scum hunters in this PL is a bad choice (referring to ali, Titus, GL, moment)

Spoiler:

Despite the mass increase in noise and mech talk my reads shockingly remain mostly untouched. I'll leave the mech play to everyone else I suppose since the lynch is decided on someone I've had at mostly null.

I don't know how you read everything that happened and come away without an opinion. Just bizarre.

I also agree with this, I think this is decent odds to be scum-indicative

it reminds me a lot of a situation I had as scum in Nomination mafia when I came back to the thread after a massive Menalque/RC TvT with Menalque at L-1, and I tried to basically just comment super lightly and peace out and RC immediately caught me for having nothing to say

Execute: notscience

Decent place to start until I get my feet wet with data.

a bit out of time but IIRC ali was also scumreading datisi

---

so it's not like their reads aren't at least somewhat present in my decision making?

[Iconeum]

Just: don’t downplay people being upset with “stop crying” when you’re doing something that makes the game unfun in a way that was totally avoidable? That’s what pissed me off here, more than you seongsrning even. I mean, that was annoying but I was willing to tolerate it, you acting as if me + ali being upset and losses off wasn’t even a valid response was shitty

i don't agree it was totally avoidable

but if you start throwing shit at me, you know very well how i'm gonna respond

[Iconeum]

@Iconeum

- It seems like you felt like you didn't really have control over the situation.

Story of my life, literally

[Iconeum]

This isn't fun for me, either

[Iconeum]

How am I supposed to feel okay voting Maki when I don't want to be voting this slot and have other reads that I feel more strongly about being scum then Maki

it will be very important on Day 2

[Iconeum]

VOTE: nk15

Fight the power

Call me scum for it I don’t give a fuck I’m not playing these reindeer games anymore I’m trying to lynch scum

[Iconeum]

Day 2 will be another matter entirely, and all of town will be needed to sort the information we have.
I think a 2-lynch option in which I may or may not veto sounds good.

This only looks like you aren't strongarming the game. If we get two wagons going and you veto them both, then what

I am only allowing myself 1 veto

You'll have to trust me on this I suppose

[Iconeum]

Weekend vla extended thru tomorrow

Not outing was very much deliberate

[Iconeum]

rawr!

catching up today

[Iconeum]

Also we

definitely

have to investigate NK15.

Why?

I mean, mostly because I refuse to lose the game to a living NK15 who was caught in a lie midway through day 1.

Give me 1 good reason scum!NK chooses to lie and fake claim like that, and in the process has a high chance of comitting seppuku

[Iconeum]

otoh i probably shouldn't be talking about reads too much

i think the play is for everyone to decide on 2 options to investigate, and 2 (or 3?) options to execute in which I have final say?

[Iconeum]

otoh i probably shouldn't be talking about reads too much

i think the play is for everyone to decide on 2 options to investigate, and 2 (or 3?) options to execute in which I have final say?

i will correct myself here and say that the execution is 100% a majority thing today as long as it stays inside of the 3 investigated players

as far as the inspect goes, I think a couple of options for me to decide in is probably a good call

right?

[Iconeum]

options on which I will not state my opinion publicly

as for my vote, at the moment I'm thinking notscience>moment>datisi

[Iconeum]

moment and datisi are just about equal and i wouldn't be opposed to switching those

[Iconeum]

If notscience flips red than his immediate disbelief of the NK15 claim seems a lot like TMI, which would imply NK15 is scum.

what's the reasoning for scum not believing their buddie's fake claim exactly? wouldn't fellow scum just take a seat behind the fake claim and see what happens instead of what you are saying?

[Iconeum]

5 days left

please start reaffirming at least 2 brackets to invest

[Iconeum]

5 days left

please start reaffirming at least 2 brackets to invest

may i also suggest that my selection for the N1 bracket be taken into account for the N2 selection…
or at least provide me an option with that in mind?

[Iconeum]

wdym ico?

literally what I wrote

[Iconeum]

i'm getting scum vibes from the datisi slot actually

i don't see any sorting for what should a 50/50 from town!datisi

also just dislike the dictator dragon thing because it's pretty clear that was only for D1 and town needs to actually do stuff and i'm not doing anything to take control here?

[Iconeum]

tho as it stands, notscience is still my first pick

[Iconeum]

notscience is at L-3 with the inspect unsorted

[Iconeum]

i'm fine with ns being the execution but i don't think it's a good thing for me to talk about the inspect bracket?

[Iconeum]

right now there's a few options by only a few people as far as i could see so…

if in 48 hours there aren't like 2 or 3 consensus options for me to pick from i think it's best if i put it together myself based on popular choices i guess

[Iconeum]

you want me to handpick the invests again?

I could, based on the same process I used on D1. But we agreed town would have control, and everyone seems to have different opinions.

And if I do push my own bracket, there's not gonna be room to divert away from that because reasons.

[Iconeum]

I want you to pick based on what has been suggested in consultation, yes

I cbf to try to corral everyone here into actually voting using hurt tags to try and pick an investigation pool where if you didn’t abide it would potentially put the TD anyway

I don’t want you to control who we lynch (so long as we’re lynching from within a pool of confirmed scum)

I'd rather he didn't handpick.

there's too much dissonance in everyone's brackets to 'please' yall
so if i do this, i'll be eating shit again even tho my first selection turned out great

it's not really handpicking *my* selection, but rather from my townreads with maybe a curve ball in it

[Iconeum]

and yes, obviously lynch will be normal majority in the bracket

[Iconeum]

what is everyone's thoughts about the size of Night 2 inspect?

3 seemed to be what most people are shooting for, but i saw menal opting for maybe 2

3 has better odds of catching scum, but with 2 we lessen the damage if we don't hit tea

[Iconeum]

so if i do this, i'll be eating shit again even tho my first selection turned out great

Don't get full of yourself. Don't forget that your first selection for a lynch didn't turn out great.

yeah ur right i'm terrible

i wasn't able to catch scum in a SEVENTEEN!!!! player game that has all of THREE!!!! scum in it on DAY ONE!!!

i'm so bad lol

[Iconeum]

so if i do this, i'll be eating shit again even tho my first selection turned out great

Don't get full of yourself. Don't forget that your first selection for a lynch didn't turn out great.

also why don't you respond to what's actually important instead of spewing this bullshit?

[Iconeum]

Alisae if you could add 1 person to norwee being investigated, who would it be?

Menalq if you could add 1 person to norwee and umlaut being investigated who would it be?

[Iconeum]

umlaut if you could pick 2, who would they be?

[Iconeum]

sure sure, let's just focus on getting this inspection bracket up and running

[Iconeum]

Moment, who would your pick of 2 be?

[Iconeum]

so if i do this, i'll be eating shit again even tho my first selection turned out great

Don't get full of yourself. Don't forget that your first selection for a lynch didn't turn out great.

yeah ur right i'm terrible

i wasn't able to catch scum in a SEVENTEEN!!!! player game that has all of THREE!!!! scum in it on DAY ONE!!!

i'm so bad lol

That's not what I said.

please forgive me if i'm overreacting
let me get my morning coffee and things will turn out ok

[Iconeum]

I don’t want umlaut investigated, my 2 would be (norwee, nk15) just to hopefully kill the paranoia there

do you really think scum are gonna be fake claiming like NK did?

[Iconeum]

inspect: wheat

Norwee and SS go on wheat

my vote is still on notsciencedude

[Iconeum]

Also it just occurred to me that if we find tea in a pool of 3

it's autowin

it's not

[Iconeum]

Then we get a bonus conftown and people can stop worrying about him, and he's obviously not daughter so we don't lose anything.

there's only a minority actually scumreading him, and in those i think most are just seeing it as a scummy move

i don't see a valid reason to investigate NK at all

[Iconeum]

Norwee and SS go on wheat

You should add a third person. Mathematically, if we find tea in a group of three, we execute one of the three while checking Moment or Datisi (if NS is town), and then we execute the scum in Moment/Datisi while checking one of the remaining two, and then we execute the scum in the other group.

It's autowin as long as the daughter isn't guessed.

what you fail to take into account here is that we might hit 3 town

adding a 3rd is *only* autowin IF they aren't all town and IF the TD isn't guessed

there's other scenarios where it's actually beneficial for scum to add a 3rd...

[Iconeum]

the way i see it is that if I give you a third name now, scum!SS has 1 extra name to cross off the PoE. He knows he's dead anyway.
And having an extra conftown isn't worth all that much imo?

All we need to do is hit a guilTea with the least possible amount of clears

[Iconeum]

I mean look at it this way. We have to use the investigation mechanic. It benefits us more than it benefits scum.

Right now we have the chance for a free cop result. Unless you accept that using the investigation mechanic (on not previously investigated players) is not worth doing AT ALL after today, there will never be a better opportunity to use it than now.

who's arguing that the investigation mechanic isn't worth it?

[Iconeum]

excuse me?

[Iconeum]

So surely you can find a name that I wasn't going to pick as the daughter anyway?

[Iconeum]

excuse me?

You are arguing that the information it gives scum outweighs the information it gives town.

That is saying that it isn't worth it.

if i would think the investigation mechanic isn't worth it, i literally have a tool at my disposal to force the matter

[Iconeum]

excuse me?

You are arguing that the information it gives scum outweighs the information it gives town.

That is saying that it isn't worth it.

i'm saying that we need to find a balance in confirming town as that information is critical to a scum victory, not that we shouldn't be investigating at all?

the more conftown, the easier it gets for scum to guess the TD

[Iconeum]

Scum do not benefit more than us.

Right now, assuming random executions and random guessing, we have a 21% chance of executing two scum in five tries, and scum have an 8% chance of guessing the daughter. That gives us an EV of 20%.
If we clear 5 townies, we would then have a 42% chance of executing two scum in five tries, while scum would have a 13% chance of guessing the daughter. That gives us an EV of 37%.

(I could calculate the numbers for other sizes but the point is the same.)

if everyone agrees that it's mathematically beneficial to include a third today, i won't oppose it

[Iconeum]

What you are doing is you are giving up a large benefit to town to deny a small benefit to scum. And "large" and "small" are not vague concepts, they are actual numbers that I can calculate if you'd like. And even more you are in full control so subjectively you can choose the person least likely to be mistaken for the daughter, so the benefit to scum will be even LESS than the numbers say.

fair enough if I wait for others to comment on this? i won't oppose this if majority agrees

[Iconeum]

We’ve got scum in either NS/Datisi.
And if we get scum in me/S_S then it’s basically ez win for town because only 2 scum need to die until D5 if i remember correctly. Or it was the last scum alive would guess the TD if their teammates die. One of those.

yes but the issue rises if both you/SS are town

and i get that we absolutely need to hit Tea for maximum effect with this investigation

because after all, if we don't manage to lynch 2 scum fast enough they also win

[Iconeum]

would like smarter people then me to start commenting on this

that would be almost everybody

[Iconeum]

i don't remember asking for NK being inspected

so eh

yeah we're not inspecting NK

[Iconeum]

there's really no scum!agenda in NK15 volunteering himself to be in the pool to begin with

so what's the argument about putting him the pool again? because the main thing is catching a guilTea, not clearing town let alone paranoia

[Iconeum]

town shouldn't be volunteering to be in the pool imo

it decreases the chance of catching scum

right NK?

[Iconeum]

eh you know what fuck it

i have no clue what this game is anymore

[Iconeum]

NK will be inspected

i've fucking warned you guys about taking my day 1 picks into account
but if NK is insisting about being inspected himself he can fucking have it

[Iconeum]

It's mostly that a 3 person pool is no worse than a 2 person pool from the perspective of getting a guilty, bc we can use our remaining investigations and executions in such a way that we guarantee 2 scum eliminated by EOD5.

The downside is we might clear more townies as not!TD with an inno result, but if someone's already spewed themselves not-TD then this downside is negated.

not arguing about 3 or 2, SS was pretty convincing about that yesterday

it's about who would be number 3

[Iconeum]

How the fuck did we catch scum out of three people on night one and we still clearly have no idea what the fuck we're doing

we know what we are doing

we are inspecting someone everyone thinks is town, but did a scummy thing so hE MusT bE inSpeCteD

[Iconeum]

everyone agrees we want to hit scum with the next 3, so everyone agrees that NK should be included despite most people believing NK is probably town anyway

makes perfect sense right?

not to mention NK is asking for this himself which is?????????????????????

but im fucking done fighting this, he can be inspected if that is his grand desire

[Iconeum]

username, if that even is your real name, who do you think should be the 3 names being investigated?

[Iconeum]

Okay Ico, why SHOULDN'T we investigate NK? What do we gain from NOT checking him?

you've been hardballing against me this game from the moment i claimed PA

do you realize that that's probably counter productive if you're town?

[Iconeum]

actually

[Iconeum]

nvm

[Iconeum]

NK out of the invest

put RR in it

[Iconeum]

Only thing I'm fishing for is the TRUTH

[Iconeum]

weekend vla

[Iconeum]

RR, i'm sorry to tell you but it's pretty damn likely I won't be confirmed tomorrow either :p

[Iconeum]

I know this, and I am very annoyed by it.

everyone just needs to be in the right spot and we can execute

[Iconeum]

Because Hel is on it?

and?

[Iconeum]

VOTE: SS

[Iconeum]

there's literally no reason for you not to move over

[Iconeum]

UNVOTE:

notscience will be executed today (unless majority has a change of heart, but i was fine with this)

SS/RR/Norwee investigated

just make it happen

[Iconeum]

Rawr! what' I miss?

[Iconeum]

suppose i shouldn't be talking reads here?

[Iconeum]

well like has been stated in game

i'm not the best when it comes to mechanics so i don't know if it's better to investigate in a new pool, or relook into moment + datisi while we focus on dayplay

leaning to reinspecting moment + datisi

[Iconeum]

i'm here

reading stuff

you guys should also probably talk about who is the second possible lynch, right?

[Iconeum]

ok

[Iconeum]

let me put it this way

is it a better plan for me to either confirm i'm ok with alisae as a lynch/i'm really not ok alisae as a lynch

if ok, there doesn't have to be a second name
if not ok, you guys figure out the next one

[Iconeum]

i have a strong preference to investigate datis + moment without adding anyone

also i think there's no point for me to stall the execution because it should be obvious Ali is gonna eat cake here

[Iconeum]

that's wrong btw. the day's pool should be either 1 person or 3. 1 if we're investing outside and the person is likely to eat an execution the next day *anyway*, or 3 if we're going for rechecks/clears as that (greatly) increases the odds we actually hit guilTea

and

that we have enough checks/executions to guarantee a scum execution in time.

i see it as confirmation that your bracket is clear, + we (read: you guys) get the ability to scumhunt. And if we don't hit scum, we can still do a new invest tomorrow

[Iconeum]

inspectttt: wheaattttt

[Iconeum]

would this be a good time for me to decide on stuff?
or you guys wanna keep discussing?

[Iconeum]

I'm essentially prod dodging here, although I've skimmed.

Maxwell proposing himself along with me and Datisi seems like an attempt to poison the well and potentially get one of us on the chopping block tomorrow instead of likely just him. A rather uncharitable interpretation, but the one that most immediately jumped to mind.

Investigating me and Datisi is still a stupid decision, but including Maxwell would be moreso. I would not comply with it.

there shouldn't be no harm in me saying this because it's clear you aren't the TD

IIRC you were very strongly opposing the Day 1 inspect as well

[Iconeum]

The point I'm trying to get to in a roundabout manner is that I'm wondering if I'd rather vote Maxwell today

you can vote whoever you want, but ali is gonna be the execution

[Iconeum]

Are we decidedly flipping Maxwell first anyways? The basics of it are that I think Datisi is town but I couldn't say the same about Maxwell and I'd rather simply investigate a suspect alone than potentially be in a guilty pool with him.

there's a decent chance it will be either hel or maxwell in the pool with you and datisi

we lose nothing by including you and datisi in the pool, other then confirm you as town and take away the chance we inspected double scum on D1
or we get a guilTea and the game is auto from there

[Iconeum]

You motherfucker, that pagetop was mine

and such a terrible one, at that

[Iconeum]

ok fair enough, i remembered it to be stronger

still doesn't justify opposing this investigation

[Iconeum]

i think best course to sail is flipping alisae and putting maxwell in the bracket with moment and datisi

there i said it

if alisae is scum then maxwell is a bad invest but it won't matter because game ends with the flip
if alisae is town then maxwell is very likely a good invest, which makes this a win win

[Iconeum]

Adding myself to the investigation is a guaranteed loss if I am scum

this is factually incorrect but ok

[Iconeum]

inspect: copper

moment and datisi should transfer to copper so we can get this day over with

[Iconeum]

Ship: Copper

Thanks for the support, Titus.

Alright, we're all set for you to deny this check and play the WIFOM game, Ico. Scum will never dare to think that the daughter would cannon herself into the check only for her pa to deny it. Makes no sense.

[Iconeum]

you have the only vote that matters already

[Iconeum]

looks like i have to meddle in this, but ok

[Iconeum]

I'm thinking it's Umalut or NK15 with Maxwell. But we'll see.

then why are you so adamantly against the pool that *includes* maxwell?

[Iconeum]

If Moment ends up walking the plank today (and flips blue) and then the investigation turns up tealess, we may be in rough shape but at least you get confirmed merchant and we don't have to flip you at all.

moment is *not* being executed today, Alisae is. I don't like how you are now trying to wiggle away from Ali execution.

[Iconeum]

I'm considering this a moral victory even if scum guess the TD. God, I hate this mechanic.

Anyway, Titus is trying to deflect from Moment being caught, no one respond to her fishing anymore.

Oh shut up scum.

You realize we are investigating maxwell, right? If we hit guilTea, we lynch maxwell first. If there is no guilTea, we are finally sure about moment and datisi. This is not the case right now.

[Iconeum]

Wait I'm confused, Moment has said they're not complying with a Datisi/Moment/Maxwell pool right, are we just pretending they didn't say that?

we're not

[Iconeum]

If Moment refuses to comply then I think the correct course of action is to execute them and add Alisae to the pool.

...

no

[Iconeum]

Well I am not on board with this plan. If a plan has to be forced onto people it's not a good plan. We caught scum on Day 1 because everyone felt listened to. I feel ignored and so do others.

I strongly disagree with this. For one, it's impossible to please 100% of all of you for 100% if that makes sense. I think my proposed execution (which isn't *my* proposed execution but a majority of players fy) and my proposed investigation bracket meets the requirements for a LOT of you for a big part.

It even meets some of your criteria, Titus. Maxwell is included.

[Iconeum]

Me Moment Alisae just for starters

well ehhhh, true but you are not accounting for the fact that these are the players inspected/executed

[Iconeum]

Because I'm open to the chance I am wrong on maxwell. I'm not open to the suggestion that Datisi or Moment are scum though.

and there are a bunch of other players who are paranoid about the moment/datisi bracket

i've already made it clear why my proposed plan is actually a good one, and i have not seen you to try and engage with the logic behind it

[Iconeum]

This is the ICO show

[Iconeum]

so you say it's bad because you, moment and ali are against it, with moment and ali in the hotspot

but who is for it?

[Iconeum]

from the top of my hat

me/RR/GL/menal/username/umlaut/norwee

others probably too?

[Iconeum]

i'm actually warming up to scum!umlaut tbf

but it's probably only together with scum!ali, so i'm still flipping ali first

and like you say, umlaut was the counterwagon to SCUM, so i'm not flipping it first - would rather do ali and investigate someone on-counterwagon which is sorting that like you ask

[Iconeum]

from the top of my hat

me/RR/GL/menal/username/umlaut/norwee

others probably too?

Right and scum lose if they get investigated in a three person pool.

Investigating a repeat investigation is safe for them. They don't have to actually scumhunt. They can ignore my VCA too or my attempts because I got shouted down.

and we lose if we accidently caught double scum in the first inspect - so by adding fresh blood (maxwell) to that pool we cover both scenarios

[Iconeum]

If this was legit your standard, you would have investigated NK15 yesterday

i think i've been clear that i have no interest in inspecting or killing NK, why do you keep pushing that?

[Iconeum]

that's food for talk post-game, but probably not suited for this time

fp'd: re this not being a democracy according to you

[Iconeum]

i'm actually warming up to scum!umlaut tbf

but it's probably only together with scum!ali, so i'm still flipping ali first

and like you say, umlaut was the counterwagon to SCUM, so i'm not flipping it first - would rather do ali and investigate someone on-counterwagon which is sorting that like you ask

I'm fine with whatever investigation and lynches you want as long as they aren't datisi moment or username. Those I have as hard town that I'm never moving on.

it's a consensus inspect actually

moment and datisi, plus 1 new name in there
and maxwell should be fine for you, right?

[Iconeum]

if moment absolutely refuses then we switch ali with moment

@moment: if ur town, there is 0 incentive for you to commit suicide like this

[Iconeum]

ok so i didn't really mean what i said earlier about switching ali with moment

it shouldn't be impossible for moment to just accept the inspect at this point, right?

maxwell + moment + datisi to be inspected

we work from there tomorrow
i strongly feel this is the best option that covers the most players, tho granted not the full 100% but that's straight up impossible

[Iconeum]

how about we execute alisae

and not obvtown moment

[Iconeum]

Q pagetop

i'm drunk

prob shouldn't be posting

could slip

ehhhhhhh

[Iconeum]

then it shouldn't be a problem to investigate him now would it

[Iconeum]

yes, and as I keep pointing out, Moment is consistently refusing to be investigated tonight

Are you telling me this is nomination mafia V2.0? With multiple scum in the initial lynching pool?

i'm nowhere near that good

[Iconeum]

VOTE: moment

[Iconeum]

I think no discussion outside of the bracket today

Execute Ali or maxwell
Setup inspect on one of the other two
This is now auto and nothing should be given away at this poinr

[Iconeum]

Umlaut wtf

We are Def not racing to decide

Its Ali or max that dies today anyway

We inspect Datisi
And if not over we kill the guilty tomorrow

[Iconeum]

ship linnen
Inspect copper

VOTE: ali

[Iconeum]

VOTE: datisi

[Iconeum]

Post Of The Game Award

[Iconeum]

everyone should shut up and keep talk for post game btw

[Iconeum]

Release my PA thread with no redactions

I apologize to anyone who I may have offended in there

[Iconeum]

Omg we did it guys

I literally see no reason for PA to ever confirm himself