Smuggler's Port [Game Over]

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hardclaim port authority

datisi is the tomboy daughter

Ship: linen

Vote: Iconeum

for an

iconic

D1 execution![/b]

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hardclaim port authority

datisi is the tomboy daughter

Spoiler:

are you saying you're my daddy? ( ͡~ ͜ʖ ͡°)

i'm sorry

Spoiler:

[img]https://media.giphy.com/media/AZ1PPDF8uO9MI/giphy.gif[/img

]

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hardclaim port authority

datisi is the tomboy daughter

Spoiler:

are you saying you're my daddy? ( ͡~ ͜ʖ ͡°)

i'm sorry

Spoiler:

Fbwop

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I just figure this is beneficial because now we have 2 ICs to go on with

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Isn’t Tomboy supposed to be kept secret because if 2 smugglers die the last one just "guess" who they are and then we lose?

Wait what

I thought it was just if tomboy was executed we auto-lose?

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Oh shit lmao

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Sure, let’s go with yes

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Yoink

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We’re gonna have to try really hard to play off my opening post as a joke datisi otherwise we’re gonna lose lmao

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mena no this isn't the super secret port authority tomboy daughter mason pt

So you’re saying you have a PT

HMMMMMM

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this is incredibly petty but: FakeGod, my name takes a capital at the start, if you wouldn’t mind for future VCs

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thanks, FG

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I think we should talk about the tomboy daughter as little as possible

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Mine again?

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hardclaim port authority

datisi is the tomboy daughter

Ship: linen

Vote: Iconeum

for an

iconic

D1 execution![/b]

this is literally menalque's town meta

yes

i remember the darkness of that game

But I’m aware it’s my town meta so

can you be sure?

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vla weekend :p

i didn't hard counterclaim you so am i scum?

Probably not, I don’t see you in the PT so

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Fun fact: I am scumreading exactly one (1) person who has posted so far

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If anyone would like to know if I am scumreading them, I would request that they ask in the form of the question: “is it me, Jesus?” while quoting the post where I said I was scumreading exactly one (1) person

That number may now be a soft two (2)

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Did I spell it right?

It aggravates me slightly less to know that you are now 100% doing it intentionally, so thank you(?) for that, I think.

Also, it’s a meme reference

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@titus

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Maki is also a little bit scummy but not one of my two scumreads

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@titus

Spoiler:

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Maki is also a little bit scummy but not one of my two scumreads

what do you think is happening in this game

I’m not sure I understand the question

Are you asking me for a gamestate read?

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Too early to say

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Doesn’t she always?

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It is her turn tbf, I think it went immediately/dats -> icon -> me -> me before here

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I mean, she was town in furret game

But she was scum in my heart

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I think alisae has done exactly nothing that is town!indicative for em yet

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To think I didn’t like norwee that much when he joined the site

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Mena isn't as loose as I would expect him to be.

Krazy?

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is it me, jesus?

*softly shakes head*

No

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Then... Is it me, Jesus?

It’s not you either

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ya i think {Datisi Mena and Icon} is a good place to start looking for scum
i could see it being one of them atm

Go on

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Mine

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Also setup spec is a good way for scum to avoid scum hunting this has been my ted talk

Conversely, criticizing setup spec is low-hanging fruit and not really a reliable way to find scum.

Counterpoint: actually it often is tho

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I don’t like Ali’s “let’s look for scum in (mena, dats, icon)” but I’m not sure it’s from scum!er. But like, flipside, I think it’s pretty bad that e’s townreading all other posters so far more

Maki soft defending ali from early on is also something I don’t like but if ali was going to make a bad push right from the beginning then idk if eir buddy would be so blatant in defending em

VOTE: alisae

Think this is fine for now, waiting for my early scumread(s) to do more before I start looking further there

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I think it’s pretty bad that e’s townreading all other posters so far more

I don't think I specifically outed who I'm townreading, but I feel like I have a decent amount of townreads.
Why is it bad?

Because I don’t think we’ve done anything that should be out of the range for you to be unsure on us yet, so you suggesting there is a scum in that pool seems manipulative, especially when there are a number of people who haven’t posted and there are at least 2 people who I’d say are notably scummier than any of (me, dats, icon) so far

If you were someone else I’d say you’re maybe slightly +town for going after that group, but I don’t think scum!you would shy away from forcing a conflict with me (and might actively seek it out)

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Wait @Menalque I'm legit scumreading Dats, are you not? Want to talk about it?

I am not SRing dats and don’t see anything out of the normal for her early D1 play. I don’t think she’s abnormally timid at all really?

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Execute Norwegian

These thinly veiled lines of scum normally do x and town normally do y feel like a thought process that scum would try to make up. It's unlikely town just goes through that same line of thought over and over again.

Okay but: have you ever met norwee?

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The only thing worrying me at all about datisi is her not calling me scum yet but I’m going to tell myself that’s because we’re past that stage and not because she’s pocketing me

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Is excitement AI from Datisi?

Sort of

I think it’s less reliable atm, and it’s also less purely about excitement but also her like overall engagement with a game

But she’s been playing non-stop for like over a year at this point and I think that’s burned her out a bit to the point where it’s not as reliable an alignment indicator for her as it once was

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I wonder who hel is

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ok melan

s-Top

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I think datisi is town here and I’m like 80% confident on it

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Wait no

Like

Let’s say 82.35% confident

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I am cyrus62.

lol

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What do you think of alisae, GL?

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Wait no

Like

Let’s say 82.35% confident

why?

14/17

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You haven't done anything townie or anything thats really scummy, I just have a good amount of townreads and with the more townreads i get, the higher it is likely that the group of {you, datisi, Icon} contains scum. It's not about who is scummier, but who is just not towny.

It would be helpful if you outed the TRs that you have so far that make you think that (me, icon, dats) is likely to contain scum

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@Menalque - Alisae is a townread, especially for 144 and 187 . I don't vibe with your argument about em, I don't see how that's scum indicative especially since Alisae and I shared the early Dats suspicion so that pool made sense to me

Your links don’t work?

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I’m concerned that there is the attempt to force a townbloc on page 12 with 2 of my scumreads in it

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I think GL and ali are both scum, or if not I think there is likely one scum in there

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Why the tiger, Menalque?

I felt like his opening post was very out of character for him and made me feel like he really wants to be perceived as town in a way I wouldn’t normally say he does

And I think his datisi take was bad and lazy and I dislike him doubling down on it instead of easing up once he spoke to me about it

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Why the tiger, Menalque?

I felt like his opening post was very out of character for him and made me feel like he really wants to be perceived as town in a way I wouldn’t normally say he does

And I think his datisi take was bad and lazy and I dislike him doubling down on it instead of easing up once he spoke to me about it

I'm not trying to be perceived as town

, I'm trying to give thoughts on how we should try to play the game. It's a unique setup with weird mechanics, it feels

disingenuous to try to compare that to how I may have opened with you in traditional mafia formats

. I can point to

plenty of times I've played weird mechanics games where I've opened or spent time on mechanics talk

. I also find it misreppy of you in general to assume that's me trying to make some kind of LAMIST play instead of just setup talk.

As for Datisi, why would doubling down on it indicate scum!GL to you? Especially after I explicitly asked you to consider my view? I think Datisi's scum,

if that was a made up belief I'd be

more

likely to ease up on it, not less

.

I think GL and ali are both scum, or if not I think there is likely one scum in there

This made me go back and read GuiltyLion, and I have to agree, I'm not sure what in his first post is worthy of a townread and his push on Datisi doesn't seem legitimate, it's all references to "feels" but no direct quotes or anything of the like, so vague it can't really be counter-argued.

Alisae sees it.

I'm not trying to make an argument that "can't be counter-argued", I'm

just calling a vibe that feels off from someone I've played with as town a handful of times.

(1) I think you are
(2) I think a full half the game’s we’ve played have been non-traditional mafia setups and you opened like this in none of them
(3) okay, go ahead, link them
(4) I don’t think you would, I think you know mafia well enough to fake “conviction”
(5) alisae has done absolutely nothing indicating e’s town and honestly it’s weird that you’re not more paranoid that e’s hacking your “datisi feels weird” push if you’re town and not worrying about pocketing
(6) calling off a vibe that she feels off while ignoring that the person who’s played with her a shitload of times is saying she feels totally normal for early game

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I have no idea how to read him

I'm probably scumreading him I think?

Reconcile these two things for me, RR

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Oh, I think I know who username is

Haven’t heard anyone else refer to “inbred pig fuckers” in a while, nor anyone else who uses “tranquilo”

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Dats - town
Norwee
Username
Icon

Umlaut - townlean
Hel

Moment - nulltown
RR

NK15 - true null
S_S

Titus - null

Maki - nullscum

Alisae - scumlean
GL
maxwell
notscience

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VOTE: maxwell

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Maxwell and notscience are more or less interchangeable at the bottom

I wouldn’t say I’m at high confidence on anyone yet, these are just my initial impressions

I think I’m most confident on datisi of everyone

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That’s a bad vote

Go on

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For some reason I believe notscience genuinely didn't know who username was and I think he's probably town here.

As in, you think notscience is? Or you think username is?

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I assumed kuribo didn’t want himself officially outed or he would have just /in’d on his main :/

Seeing as some people here probably still wouldn’t know

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Why does notscience not knowing who username was make notscience more towny rather than less towny?

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Also I may need to switch to an actual-photo avatar to offset Menalque's new animu one

Do u like it uwu

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Yoink

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Why does notscience not knowing who username was make notscience more towny rather than less towny?

It's not that

the fact of not knowing that

is a town tell, it's that lying about not knowing it would be a hard scum tell and I'm saying I don't think he did that

I guess that doesn't actually make him town, so make that the strictly logical 'and' in my post: I think he's telling the truth

and

independently of that I get the sense he's town, though I can't point to anything strongly justifying that.

I don’t really see anything that jumps as town to me in the ISO, but I think the way he tried to pressure username only to back off when he realised who it was/that it wasn’t gonna go as anticipated is scummy

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Actually, that makes me think I might be being slightly unfair to GL with regard to one point and only one point, which is that I guess I shouldn’t think he’s scummy for still scumreading datisi because yes I think he should listen to me, but I also think he’d look scummy if he’d immediately dropped his SR on her

The rest of what I said stands though

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Hm, idk how I feel about Maki not correcting my mistaken identity guess, probably that means nothing

Also I know who Hel is too!

Is this what being good at alt hunting feels like?

Also, sidebar @maki: uncharted is like lowkey my favourite video game series, I think

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I sort of thought his early tone was townie fwiw, but not strongly now that I look back at it sceptically given his approach to username

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Oh, also I see that notscience has like 18000 posts so I’d hope he’s able to fake town tone as scum by now

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You’re funny, I’ll give you that

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At least you’ve been on the site for 7 years

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oh boy I sure do love being forced to do what other people want

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Actually, I think I have 0 intention of going along with NK’s plan

Alternative plan that is actually fun and still avoids killing the TD by accident: we vote people up to L-2 after which people can place a “faux vote” (I propose using hurt tags)

The first person to get to 9 is “executed” and we repeat the process until another player is “lynched”. NK gets to choose between the two as to who we really execute

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Ali what do you think of my plan

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God, what a boring fucking thing to do honestly

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Such an ego trip too

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But, until I get more experience with you, it also means that I can't trust myself to determine whether you're doing scummy things because you're Town being weird, or Scum using that as a shield.

Not being able to read me is fine, but does it not make more sense to default to assuming I’m town than assuming I’m scum given that there is a much higher mathematical chance of that in any given game?

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After you got executed the next day, you expressed in the dead thread that you intentionally do scummy things as Town, because you want to challenge the perception of these actions as scummy.

I also think this is simplifying my philosophy a bit, but sure I guess

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Norwee are you happy with my plan?

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To avoid anyone actually hammering the tomboy daughter

But basically yes. We have two full wagons per day that both hit “lynch” then NK gets to choose between them to make sure that if one is on the TD they don’t get lynched

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Actually, I think I have 0 intention of going along with NK’s plan

Alternative plan that is actually fun and still avoids killing the TD by accident: we vote people up to L-2 after which people can place a “faux vote” (I propose using hurt tags)

The first person to get to 9 is “executed” and we repeat the process until another player is “lynched”. NK gets to choose between the two as to who we really execute

it doesn't change the fact that the way I was thinking of playing this game is now ruined due to the claim.

I was genuinely looking forward into plugging in theories about how was Port Auth and who was the Daughter.

Not to mention Port Auth is so much more effective if they don't claim like HOLY

Yes I agree that it’s a boring and shitty thing to do either way, but do you agree that my plan is making the best of a bad situation

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In fact,
Here @NK15

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... &start=125

Go get yourself an anime avatar UwU.

linking speakeasy outside of the site isn't something you should do.
Its considered a private forum.

It’s GenDis

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@ali this isn’t me trying to trap you or anything btw, I think you’d be pissed off as either alignment

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Can you both just agree to my plan so I can go to sleep and then we can working on getting a consensus on my plan > NK’s plan tomorrow

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Wait sorry lemme fix that

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uwu

can you both just agree to my plan so I can go to sleep and then we can working on getting a consensus on my plan > NK’s plan tomorrow

owo uwu

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Agree. To. The. Plan. Norway.

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Thank you

Yes ur probably right ali, I’m going now

Sorry for shouting norwee

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Oh, wait, I just realised the Tomboy Daughter could technically claim shipmaster if driven to L-1 and that would be fine too, but it still gives scum a 50/50 on that person if it happens.

Do you mean could claim port authority?

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I disagree because now NK 15's reads are placed above that of town. What if NK 15 gets agency captured?

Again, I didn’t want to do this but NK forced in by outing. It is the best of a bad situation in that town still gets to make meaningful decisions about who to lynch but we don’t run the risk of the autoloss

Ideally, NK agrees to flip a coin to decide UNLESS the tomboy daughter is one of the two (obviously)

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I think I require enlightenment on this meme. Explanation requested.

It’s commentary on the recent policy change away from using “lynch” on site. It would appear that notscience is backing the terrible “clowned” replacement option, instead of the fantastic “guillotined” replacement.

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unless mena and nk15 are scum together and this is an elaborate galaxy brain gambit

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the 14/17 thing was a joke then?

I was gonna say I’m like 80% on town you and then I was like “hey, that should be 80% above the pure rand chance then right?” and when I worked out the random chance I wasn’t sure what 80% above that would be but I wouldn’t say I’m like 90% sure you’re town so I just went with it

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which games were these?

Nomination; GnR III; a newbie I’m pretty sure; normal 2119

I would consider both nomination and GnR to be weird setup games, although tbf he was scum in nomination

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I’ll probably quieten down when I’m more comfortable with the gamestate, and if I feel like people who I’m scumreading or otherwise uncomfortable aren’t trying to lead the game

I think the approach you’re taking to me is odd, maki

fuck

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Norwee, what is it that you are seeing in titus/ali and what is it that you’re not seeing in datisi?

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If I can get to a TR on S_S once he arrives then I’m probably just going to sheep him on mechanics of shipping etc and I’m not super interested in it until he turns up

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That's the same type of gaslighting bullshit that Carl Tuckerson tried in Purge Mafia and I put a vig shot right between his scummy-ass eyes.

Just saying, I’m pretty sure we lynched Tuckerson after his “scum slip”

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Oh wait, no, we stranded him, I remember now

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Popping in for two things:

(1) VOTE: notscience

(2) datisi, how come you didn’t get pissed with GL this game?

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I feel like this interaction is non-partnery, said Mena, preparing himself for the inevitable post-game embarrassment

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Re 667

(1) ok
(2) I would consider GnR non traditional, there’s some validity to your point about the fact you repped in part way through and so your opening post isn’t as representative
(3) thanks

(5) no, I still think alisae has done nothing that makes me want to townread em. Maybe like slightly more towards null, I don’t think they’re playing particularly hard but I do think that to the degree that e is playing e’s opposing me and I don’t get eir reads. It makes more sense for you to be concerned about pocketing because you’re considered a strong player and that’s exactly what people are likely to do you when you’re town and I think that’s likely how ali would approach you, and I know it’s how I approached you in the two games where I was scum against you. Seems even more valid given that there is no NK and so if you did get into ali!scum then it would be a serious threat.

That said, I’m not like locked on ali!scun atm, but it’s just like every move e makes I think doesn’t make sense and there’s a point where I think the question if it doesn’t make sense because it’s ali or because e’s not viewing the game through the same lens as me because e’s scum

(6) idk what tangible reasoning you want? I think the way datisi has interacted with me so far is more in line with town!dats than scum dats, I think your reads on for scumreading her has no basis in reality, and I think she’s playing to her recent town meta

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Taking out all the fluff

So you admit to fluffposting?

Spoiler: :thonk:

this is incredibly petty but: FakeGod, my name takes a capital at the start, if you wouldn’t mind for future VCs

Jeez, at least your name was spelled right. Have some gratitude ya snob.

Fun fact, i've got a folder of anime girl reaction pics too. But i've never had the guts to do the gimmick in a mafia game yet.

This game has too many weebs already, if i go all out here then people might start puking rainbows.
I'll try to restrain myself...

These spambots are getting quite advanced.

oh, can i add character images to my posts too?

No.

Whichever corrupt officials are bringing illegal goods in our perfectly legitimate copper business need to pay in blood. Now excuse me while i prepare myself some Earl Grey tea. It’s the finest.

I will always and forever, regardless of alignment or even in MD, have nothing but contempt from the very bowels of the most ragefilled hell for "shitposting meta" in games

Aw boo hoo.

No way i'm listening to the plan of some no good no-avatar hooligan. NO SIR-E-BOB!

LeTs UsE aS mUcH aS tHe DeAdLiNe As PoSsiBlE.
We HaVe To UsE aLl Of ThE tImE GiVeN tO uS tO mAkE tHe BeSt DeCiSsIoN pOsSiBlE.

You're my spirit animal.

In fact,
Here @NK15

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... &start=125

Go get yourself an anime avatar UwU.

is backing the terrible “clowned” replacement option,

Ew

Only i should be allowed to use that term.

I need to think more.

I'm starting to question why i signed up to a game that requires thinking.

Only cowards care about what pedits say.

(Also i’m phone posting so that really makes me care even less)
RAW UNFILTERED UNCENSORED NORWEE Right here, right now.

norwee can you respond to my 603 pretty please?

Menalque are you seriously still not seeing any chance at all that Datisi rolled scum here? Posts like this are

bad

!

No, I think you’re wrong and yours read on her is bad

[Menalque]

Wait I just read the rest of NK15's claim post. He doesn't want to out the TD, so he's going to risk outing the TD. Brilliant.

Did you read my plan yet? Thoughts?

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I think it’s ironic GL that you’re accusing me of maybe “wanting” to TR datisi and not basing my read on her on her actual posts because I feel like that’s exactly what you’re doing with ali

[Menalque]

mena if it makes your life better
i only get easier to read from here

I mean I’m not really interested in lynching you on D1 so yeah I hope so

Also I’m aware that the only game I think I have played with you where you weren’t an IC I (incorrectly) hard scumread you all day

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Yes

[Menalque]

That’s the game I’m talking about

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That’s the game I’m talking about

u hard tunneled me?
only thing i remember is trolling noms

No I repped out because I got I’ll possibly with COVID but I thought you were really scum for pushing nomx3

[Menalque]

Norwee I feel like I want to both scumread you and townread you from your recent posting, how is that possible

[Menalque]

I feel very much like this could be you being coasting scum instead of power wolfing scum @ali because I think you know it’s fairly unlikely you’re lynched D1 especially given that like 3 to 4 strong players are TRing you and so there’s no incentive for you to play yet

Alternatively you could just be coasty town who isn’t invested yet

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I think you’re wrong about notscience being a bad vote although I would still happily do maxwell

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I think my strong preference today for the two “lynches” are notscience and maxwell

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If C9++

Err excuse me I had like a thousand posts that game or something?

This is a somewhat reliable way to read me btw, but it’s more reliable over the course of a game, I can normally make myself effort the early game and then I burn out late D1 or on D2 and go quiet before picking up again in endgame

[Menalque]

Also I don’t think I ever rolled scum against you in a newbie @norwee?

[Menalque]

I’m giving ali an honorary “skitter pass” meaning that I will temporarily townread em despite not townreading em

[Menalque]

Also I don’t think I ever rolled scum against you in a newbie @norwee?

That one where you replaced out immediately.

Oh, that was illness, that really shouldn’t be considered representative of my meta. That probably would have been a high effort game if I hadn’t gotten ill

[Menalque]

Okay I reread your plan in 420 (nice, btw). I think that a world where the tomboy daughter gets a majority vote, official or unofficial, is not a world we're winning in anyway. Letting NK15 veto executions might work but it probably won't? If we did, he'd have to come up with the right percentage of the time to randomly veto a non-daughter execution (probably 1/15).

Your plan doesn't fix the main problem, which is the chance of the daughter being caught with tea (or equivalently, the chance that NK has to reject an inspection because the daughter is on it). That chance should be zero. Not sure whether inspecting one or two people is best, but either way NK should have full control over who is inspected. Inspecting someone who is likely tomorrow's execution isn't really bad because like I said if that person is the daughter, we were in hot water anyway.

Okay but mechanics are boring and so I’m happy to let others try to solve the question of how we split resources and what we do about inspections

I think this setup is highly scumsided (my suspicion) so I’m kind of not expecting to win that much

The main thing is: is NK choosing between the two scummiest people on each day the best way to avoid lynching the tomboy daughter without giving info on their identity? Which should be doable so long as NK doesn’t give out reads and thereby indicate whether he actively chose one person > the other or because he flipped a coin. If this isn’t the best way to solve the lynching part of the problem, what is?

[Menalque]

Oh for Christ’s fucking sake

[Menalque]

Okay I reread your plan in 420 (nice, btw). I think that a world where the tomboy daughter gets a majority vote, official or unofficial, is not a world we're winning in anyway. Letting NK15 veto executions might work but it probably won't? If we did, he'd have to come up with the right percentage of the time to randomly veto a non-daughter execution (probably 1/15).

Your plan doesn't fix the main problem, which is the chance of the daughter being caught with tea (or equivalently, the chance that NK has to reject an inspection because the daughter is on it). That chance should be zero. Not sure whether inspecting one or two people is best, but either way NK should have full control over who is inspected. Inspecting someone who is likely tomorrow's execution isn't really bad because like I said if that person is the daughter, we were in hot water anyway.

Okay but mechanics are boring and so I’m happy to let others try to solve the question of how we split resources and what we do about inspections

I think this setup is highly scumsided (my suspicion) so I’m kind of not expecting to win that much

The main thing is: is NK choosing between the two scummiest people on each day the best way to avoid executing the tomboy daughter without giving info on their identity? Which should be doable so long as NK doesn’t give out reads and thereby indicate whether he actively chose one person > the other or because he flipped a coin. If this isn’t the best way to solve the executing part of the problem, what is?

Ebwop

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Err excuse me I had like a thousand posts that game or something?

Also there's something to be said about the difference between tons of posts VS effort. They aren't always mutually exclusive imo.

I high efforted that game! I counter claimed skitter as a vig and then retracted and then spent a LONG ASS TIME pushing the execution of neither of the claimed cops while somehow not becoming obvscum for doing so! That was very clearly a game where I efforted! It’s like my 4th most efforted scumgame!

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Also we won!!!

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People just keep talking shit on my scumgame and then losing to me as scum or TRing me and it’s just a big fucking sigh

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Like yes, I enjoy town much more and yes it’s a slog when I roll scum but like, my scum record is actually pretty impressive and I feel like that hardly ever gets acknowledged

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maybe you should channel that energy into this game so you could win this towngame >_>

I’m trying but Maki did have a point and I’m already at 125 posts and while I’m ready to get some votes on notscience and maxwell and get some blood flowing from a good ole guillotine I’m not sure everyone else is, and I’m trying not to drown the thread too hard with my posting

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mena don't get ahead of yourself
u still got a lot to learn and if I can figure out you were scum by the end of d1 in TM then you still got a ways to go

also, I don't think anyone in my townbloc is to worry
maybe Mena but I don't think so.

Also no offence but even if you did figure it out N1 after that I’m pretty sure you weren’t winning if you tried to force it 1v1 on D2

And that’s a game where I was burned out for rolling scum

immediately

after GnR where I managed the entire scumteam fairly heavily and was not trying that hard. Like if I hadn’t been burned out I probably wouldn’t have bussed or if I had it would have looked better than it did (and it looked good enough that basically the entire thread townread me end of D1 and mastics TR me so hard she tried to masonize me) so

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is NK choosing between the two scummiest people on each day the best way to avoid executing the tomboy daughter without giving info on their identity?

The only way to avoid executing the tomboy daughter without giving any information away is for NK to randomize something to execute. The more randomness involved, the less information we give away. So if we offer up two and NK randomly picks one, that's twice as good as if we just execute one and pray.

... Except that the one who survived is not going to disappear from people's radars, and the above effect becomes weaker the more times someone survives being on the stand. The net effect is it either screws up our scumhunting by forcing us to treat the scummiest living player as conftown, or it makes us jump through a lot of hoops for a benefit that's not nearly as great as it seems.

Okay, but that person isn’t necessarily always going to still be scummy right? Like, let’s say there are duelling wagons, and we’re fairly sure there’s

a

scum in there but that it’s unlikely both are scum

In that case, if we flipped the scum, the second player would likely be off the concern list the second day while we hunted for partners

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oh do not underestimate my ability to kill someone
i am very comptent at lynching people i will have u know

I mean, so am I? And I didn’t have a shitfight with bitmap to be used against me

But that’s to neglect the overall point which is that that’s yet another example of my scumgame being good, to the point of fault

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I’m not saying my scumgame is beyond reproach, I’m saying I’ve won convincingly against strong players on multiple occasions and have been mechguiltied on others

There’s definitely some duds in my history, but those have nearly all been from when I’ve been tired from playing scum games right before them and there is a general trend of people not acknowledging that my scumgame is pretty strong and it’s frustrating

I don’t wanna make this into a metaphorical dick measuring contest of “oh I fooled you” “on no you didn’t” “oh well I could have lynched you” “oh no you couldn’t have”

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It will happen eventually and we’ll see where the cards fall

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I’m betting on me but I guess we’ll find out

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Anyway I’m going offline now because this is getting me weirdly worked up and idk why and I wanna sleep

Sorry for spamming the thread again

@ali I think I was starting to get overly competitive there and idk why, sorry

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Interesting

I was reading icon’s posts here and thinking “not sure I’m reading icon as town here unless he’s the PA” and then boom

He might as well have claimed because he was hard softing it by being sceptical of the NK15 claim

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@moment why are you not townreading me?

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@datisi do you think scum is pushing you or do you think you haven’t towntold yet?

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NK15 needs to claim fakeclaim or no fakeclaim next time he’s in thread

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@datisi do you think scum is pushing you or do you think you haven’t towntold yet?

i don't think i have generally towntold yet but also i don't think those two are necessarily mutually exclusive

You think scum would push you after you towntold?

@username, yes obviously one is lying I just don’t know if that necessarily means the lying one is scum

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It seems odd that scum!nk would insist on getting to choose the lynch while knowing that the town!PA is out there somewhere and able to CC at any point

And if he really thought it was me and he’s scum, then why worry about it so much? Idk maybe it’s worth it if the equation was that if I was town I never could CC because it would out the tombody daughter but idk

I’m thinking NK town

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It seems odd that scum!nk would insist on getting to choose the lynch while knowing that the town!PA is out there somewhere and able to CC at any point

And if he really thought it was me and he’s scum, then why worry about it so much? Idk maybe it’s worth it if the equation was that if I was town I never could CC because it would out the tombody daughter but idk

I’m thinking NK town

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Oh ffs

I thought that had been stopped by the petit but apparently not

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Umlaut what do you think of the people pushing you?

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I think umlaut being counterwagoned is probably another point in favour of scum!notscience

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I think it’s strange given your townreads that I’m not also in your townreads, yes. What’s strange about my interactions with umlaut?

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@moment are you an alt?

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Okay, I think moment is town

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I think umlaut being counterwagoned is probably another point in favour of scum!notscience

Who exactly is it on the Umlaut wagon that you think is scum defending notscience?

--

I think it’s strange given your townreads that I’m not also in your townreads, yes. What’s strange about my interactions with umlaut?

What is it about my townreads that indicates to you that you would be a part of them? Be specific, please.

I didn't say that you have strange interactions with Umalut – I said that

he

has strange interactions with you. Off the top of my head, the "we all agree Menalque is town" comes to mind.

Honestly I need a VC of who is on the umlaut wagon from FG, I just remember seeing votes coming on and thinking “I like very few of these”

*****

It’s kind of hard to explain. I don’t think maxwell or maki had done enough for you to be TRing them in 781. I think specifically that they were void of content that would indicate their alignments. Maki is definitely strong enough as scum that they could make any post there as either alignment. Maxwell actually isn’t that bad in ISO and I was more concerned about his early posting which is where that scumread came from. I didn’t like the way that he seemed to jump onto the chance to suspect GL when I said I was SRing him and I thought his first 3 posts were very easy to make as scum and didn’t really commit him to anything.

I also didn’t like 414 from maxwell because the first bit seemed like an empty question and the final two points felt like they were just void/avoidant.

I find it odd that you’re not townreading me unless you think I’m actively being scummy given that me being this enthusiastic about a game is generally town indicative for me, and I don’t know how you’re seeing a town thought process in ali and titus that you’re not seeing in me. As in: I feel what they’d contributed up to that point, if it was towny enough for you to think it’s actual town and not faked, should also be something you’re seeing in me. Or if you don’t see it in me, I don’t think you should be TRing ali or titus either.

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Moment can you talk to me about what you think is scummy about norwee? Because I tend to SR him regardless and I was thinking he was town here. I still think you’re wrong about datisi but I wouldn’t necessarily expect you to understand why

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Okay, it would be helpful if you were to go back and to highlight specifically what you think the towny thought processes you think you’ve seen in both of them are, because I haven’t seen that. Admittedly, I haven’t been looking super hard at that because I feel it’s not something I’m great at spotting but I think I’m more able to judge it when it’s pointed out to me explicitly by someone else.

***

I’d still like you to answer the question about whether you’re an alt or not: I won’t pursue the line of questioning more than that, but I’d appreciate a simple “yes/no” just so I can stop thinking about it.

***

I don’t think datisi has done things that should make someone unfamiliar with her TR her, but I think her recent meta has been towards the way she’s playing this game i.e. a bit checked out, and I’ve incorrectly scumread her for it the last couple of games we’ve played. I’m townreading her because I think a couple of the posts she’s made are very natural in the way she’s interacted with me in a way that I’m still not sold she does well as scum. Also, she’s rolled town like, a lot, and to memory her most recent scumgame she was actually much more active and enthusiastic than in her recent towngames.

I think the meta reasons are there for anyone to TR her, but I grant the reason why I’m confident in her being town is specific to me. But I would expect ali and GL to be aware of her recent trends in games seeing as they’re both familiar with her, and so that’s my issue with their scumreads on her.

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Mena what’s your towncore?

(Me, datisi, moment, username, icon)

I think my overall reads have progressed something like:

Dats, moment, username, icon - town
RR, S_S
Max - townlean
NK, ali
Titus, hel, umlaut - null
GL
Norwee, maki
Notscience

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ship: wheat

inspect: copper

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Steady on there firebringer

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I was talking about ali/titus, moment. Thank you for answering the alt question.

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This game is a loss

Hey now, only if you have a town role PM!

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Icon tho seriously when are you gonna stop CCing people who claim your PR

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VOTE: norway

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I have a question about the mechanics, namely: is it actually net beneficial to have investigations or not?

As in, do we gain enough of a chance to catch scum vs accidentally outing the tomboy daughter or significantly reducing the pool has to hunt for her within that we shouldn’t just play this as a straight up white flag nightless?

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VOTE: norway

Talk me through this one? I'm thinking nulltown on him myself, he seems to be pretty genuine, and though some of his pushes have been for weak reasons, it IS D1.

I am, to a significant extent, sheeping moment

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Actually, I'm not going to go too in-depth into it. I'm just going to cite some posts with a little commentary.

His response to NK15 I think is fairly bad. I also think the tone / word choice in these posts is fairly scummy, although I am unsure exactly as to how having English as a second language would affect this.

Spoiler:

Once in my homesite i saw a VT claim vig after a vig shot. When the real vig counterclaimed them and they got inevitably lynched afterwards they said they did it to "protect the real vig and make scum waste a shot on VT" and that town was dumb for lynching him.
I believe NK15 is the lying one here, but i don’t know if he’s town or scum. If town i think he’s stupid as hell. But gotta consider the possibilities. After all, i’m curious what scum would have to gain from fake claiming here if they know they’ll be CC’ed.

@Not Known 15
You did it to "protect the PA" or did you fake claim to out the real PA?

Because there is a nonzero chance you did the second.

Eliminate Not Known 15

Keeping my vote here for a bit.

If NK15 is town then he’s misplayed hard. But i’m not really willing to take that chance.

Heading into radio silence anyway now. So might not change vote due to that reason.

I think short, low-justification high-confidence meta reads are an easy way for scum to justify answers that they already know.

Spoiler:

I think you both are quite easy to read for me at this point tbh, and i'm ready to just settle on both of you being town.
If C9++ and that newbie game i had with Mena are any indication then he is lazy as scum. Here he actually efforts.
Alisae mostly agenda posts as scum, not what they're doing here.

I think his trajectory on username is scummy, especially 561. Just search for "username" in his ISO and read all of the instances.

I think that he has multiple instances of deflecting when people scumread him. Not just obviously towards me, but towards others as well.

Spoiler:

ok lets kill umlaut
VOTE: umlaut

Why Umlaut?

notty vote bad
titus vote bad

Looks like the start of a decent wagon.
VOTE: Umlaut

norwee what the fuck are you doing?

Sheeping u.

do u even have reads

Damn, you giving me an existential crisis with that tone. What the FUCK am i doing? With my life?

I have reads but they are mostly gut. I think u are town tho.

Specifically based on the reasons given here

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I really cannot say the same about Datisi and as far as I can tell the only reason you've given for the townread is 'playing to town!meta' like... what? What exactly has Datisi done that Datisi doesn't do as scum??

Menalque did you ever answer this

I did not, I forgot about it, but I did explain my datisi TR while talking to moment, give me a second and I’ll link you the post

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I don’t think datisi has done things that should make someone unfamiliar with her TR her, but I think her recent meta has been towards the way she’s playing this game i.e. a bit checked out, and I’ve incorrectly scumread her for it the last couple of games we’ve played. I’m townreading her because I think a couple of the posts she’s made are very natural in the way she’s interacted with me in a way that I’m still not sold she does well as scum. Also, she’s rolled town like, a lot, and to memory her most recent scumgame she was actually much more active and enthusiastic than in her recent towngames.

I think the meta reasons are there for anyone to TR her, but I grant the reason why I’m confident in her being town is specific to me. But I would expect ali and GL to be aware of her recent trends in games seeing as they’re both familiar with her, and so that’s my issue with their scumreads on her.

@GL here

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GL just look at her two most recent scumgames and any of her recent town games

In her two scum games there’s one where she was super active and controlling the game state and one where she made about 10 posts total

Whereas her recent town games have consistently been like this. And I think you should mostly trust me on this, because I think I have a better chance of correctly interpreting the way datisi is interacting with me than you do from the outside looking in. Unless you think we’re both scum, or unless there’s alternative reasons to think datisi actually is scum later on in the game

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mena! i'm having trouble getting into this game, can we jam when you're around? what do you think of my points against norwee? have you given reasoning for your reads on S_S and RR yet?

Hey, sure! I’m playing war zone with a few friends tonight so if I’m on it will just be checking phone while I’m dead etc, but I’ll post next time I’m on and able to like properly talk and everything

Can you link yours point on norwee because I’m lazy

I don’t think so? S_S mostly just feels town here, although I can’t explain it that well. That said, I also don’t read him great generally. I think he’s someone I’d like to try to sort more confidently today but earlier his absence was NAI as I think he was busy at the weekend

RR I thought seemed like newbtown from his “I’m gonna scumread you because I don’t know how to read you” but then I realised that he’s been on site for like 5 years and has 2000 something posts so I’m a little less sure there now

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Idk if I wanna play in a game where Icon is just gonna choose who we lynch for us because that’s not my idea of fun

I prefer the one where we choose between two people for him by voting as normal and then he chooses from there

ship: copper

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I also don’t know if the fact that icon said “let’s lynch maki” and everyone else said “how high?” is town indicative for maki or if scum feel they can’t challenge the IC but either way I don’t think it’s healthy

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You don't really have a reason to vote me, but I'm not going to complain.

Me, you mean?

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I wasn’t necessarily going to vote you but I feel like if everyone just wants to play “sheep then IC”’ it may be inevitable

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Could you say who you think is scum first?

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But eh, I get it if you don’t really feel like the game deserves that effort tbh

Idk why Icon wants to lynch you but I’m assuming it’s paranoia

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Guillotine* ffs

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I mean, I do but yeah fair

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Would you do it if I promised to tunnel your top scumread tomorrow?

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It either comes from scum angling to make it look like a post which scum would never make

I think scum do this less than town sometimes think they do and trying to lynch is as scum is my bread and butter more or less

But this is part of why I think RR is leaning town

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Is it another romance one?

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What’s the plot? Regale me, I’m almost an entire bottle of wine down and ready to hear it

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I’m not sure I’ve ever read a romance book, you know

I do really like romance films though so maybe I should give it a try

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Hang on, would we consider love in the time of cholera a romance?

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Idk, I enjoy a good mystery too or like a thriller but mostly I have a thing for magical realism stuff or just straight up literary fiction

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Killing nk15 is still a dumb case of killing someone just because they fakeclaimed

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that's great I'll be AFK

Yeah +1 I’m prodging until I get lynched or Icon big brain solves the game where no one wants to post because their opinions don’t matter

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Also, fuck you

ship: wheat

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I’m amazed that you’re surprised at this when your reaction to mine and others displeasure at the fact that you’ve decided to completely strongarm the game was “lol keep crying”

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Like I explicitly said it was bullshit when NK tried to do that, offered a reasonable compromise (2 wagons, PA picks) and now you’ve decided— not been forced, to be clear — actively decided to do that anyway despite there not being anything like consensus on maki as a guillo target

I mean, I don’t even hate the idea of doing maki today, I’m not TRing her from play, but literally I have no interest in playing mafia when my vote, the one tool given to me, counts for absolutely nothing because we’re just gonna be forced to kill whoever you want

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WE DIDN’T NEED TO DO IT TODAY EITHER

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I’m amazed that you’re surprised at this when your reaction to mine and others displeasure at the fact that you’ve decided to completely strongarm the game was “lol keep crying”

how the fuck have i decided on anything like that

Everone goes on linen

except for Datisi/Moment/notscience - they go to wheat

everyone is voting to inspect wheat

we are executing Maki

(really sorry to have to play like this, i tried my best not having to out but here we are)

Sorry, are you trying to say this isn’t you completely strong arming the game?

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Because generally, when I’m the IC who knows the identity of the game losing role, if I tell everyone “this is what we’re doing” I’d probably say I’m strongarming the gsme

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I’m amazed that you’re surprised at this when your reaction to mine and others displeasure at the fact that you’ve decided to completely strongarm the game was “lol keep crying”

This was not purely iconeum's decision but one necessitated by the circumstances. I would've appreciated it if you hadn't just tossed out of spite.

It was exactly, entirely, and uniquely icon’s decision to dictate who the investigation pool would be and who the guillo would be today

Maybe it’s a wonderful choice and maki will flip scum and the pool will have tea and we’ll execute NK tomorrow and have a glorious win and ride off into the sunset, but it’s barely mafia and it’s certainly not mafia that I will have any fun playing and I think it makes it barely Mafia at all

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however i think it's much better to do this on Day 1 and follow that plan from there onwards

Why is today any different and why should I trust you not to end up pulling this exact same BS tomorrow 2 days before deadline because you “had to”

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Explain why we should guillo maki and why those people should be in the pool to be investigated, and if we agree we’ll vote for this things and if we don’t, we won’t?

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however i think it's much better to do this on Day 1 and follow that plan from there onwards

Why is today any different and why should I trust you not to end up pulling this exact same BS tomorrow 2 days before deadline because you “had to”

wait are you just scum here?

lol.

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Jfc

You’ve played like 10 games or something with me, at least 3 where I was scum and you still have no idea what my scumgame looks like apparently

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There is a case to say you shouldn’t explain the pool, I’ll grant that

But no reason not to explain maki given that she’s already confirmed as not TD

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If you do this tomorrow Icon I’m literally not posting again other than prodging

ship: linen

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VOTE: maki

It should have been discussed and despite thinking maki was plausible scum I’m terrible at reading her and was looking forward to playing with her

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I think this is a waste of a lynch and I think you unilaterally deciding who it should be as opposed to trying to utilise what are several competent scum hunters in this PL is a bad choice (referring to ali, Titus, GL, moment)

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I am maybe a little off mood as I haven’t slept yet and have had pretty much and entire bottle of wine to myself and am sleeping on a futon on my friend’s floor but eh

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Just: don’t downplay people being upset with “stop crying” when you’re doing something that makes the game unfun in a way that was totally avoidable? That’s what pissed me off here, more than you seongsrning even. I mean, that was annoying but I was willing to tolerate it, you acting as if me + ali being upset and losses off wasn’t even a valid response was shitty

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Red wine, although I’ll take a rose in the heat of summer and a white if I’m breaching my vegetarianism to eat fish

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Rosé*

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you realize NK isn't in the pool right