Newbie 2019 | Game Over!

[shellyc]

Incredibly sorry for not posting yet because of my timezone. I'm new to forum mafia and according to what I know this is still a stage of random voting.
So as town we've got to progress from the RVS into actual leads and discussion.

VOTE: T-Bone

for being a silent guy.

[shellyc]

In mafia I've played scum tends to be pretty quiet but could be apathetic town as well. Micc, MiniMegabyte and Redados seem pretty active.

[shellyc]

It's a time zone issue (I live in asia). We've left RVS and need to get serious.
The way that Redados defended himself seems town to me. ItalianoVD could go either way. N0bleNoob has posted once filled with quotes, so I don't really know.
Micc seems to be teaching/explaining and this could be of either alignment though I'm leaning on townread for this one. GeniusGamer hasn't really been very productive. Still some lurkers.
VOTE: VOTE: T-Bone It seems this lurker vote is safe for now.

[shellyc]

I mean it's a good vote and if it's a mislynch it's not too harmful as this is a lurker.

[shellyc]

When I mean good, it's all about the risk-reward analysis.
If he is scum, then great, we get rid of a mafia.
If he is town, also great, we get rid of a silent lurker.
Thus it's a good vote, better than the other options here.

[shellyc]

Well for now I feel GeniusGamer / N0bleNoob are on the quiet side, I'd probably communicate more with them. Not really getting reads so early on.

[shellyc]

I can see if anybody is going to bandwagon on that and the reactions to the vote from the active players.

[shellyc]

They would be the third vote and according to guides the third voter is likely to be a mafia pushing a mislynch. I'd reread their posts and probably change my vote to them.

[shellyc]

To answer GeniusGamer in post 82, it's the other interpretation.
Though he's talking now and im unvoting. UNVOTE: T-Bone
The true motivations of other players are unknown if you are town...
You can assume but not be sure, unless you are scum. Still early on and we can only mainly speculate. Every action will lead to more speculation.

[shellyc]

To answer Micc in post 71, I play real-time chat mafia and still don't really have a definition of "lurking" here. He hasn't posted for 5 hours and that is my definition, though I've unvoted. Micc seems to be pocketing T-Bone in post 74.

[shellyc]

It could be one, nothing is certain. Though his activity levels are going up and he seems ok to me.

[shellyc]

"Because I’m already aware of the reasons why he would do this." sounds like extra info or something to me, which would only be available to scum. So you're saying that he's either town or scum in your defense, which is what everyone is (could be town or scum). This brings us back to the starting point, yet your words suggest that you already "know" something...

[shellyc]

Thanks T-Bone, I better get familiar with the activity levels of people on mafiascum.net.
In my opinion, Porkens has been questioning people very vigorously. Investigating other players doesn't sound like something scum would do (they already know everything).
Scum come in many types, some town leaders could be scum. I'm open at this stage though Porkens does sound more town than scum to me.

[shellyc]

"Because I’m already aware of the reasons why he would do this." sounds like extra info or something to me, which would only be available to scum. So you're saying that he's either town or scum in your defense, which is what everyone is (could be town or scum). This brings us back to the starting point, yet your words suggest that you already "know" something...

Either I’m missing something in your argument, or you’re missing something in mine. Everyone is either town or scum. I provided a reason why he would do it as town and a reason why he would do it as scum. I could do that for basically any action that anyone carried out. My approach is to analyze what players do. It is to understand what they would do in certain situations and why they would do what they have already done.

It's just your phrasing makes you sound like you have extra information ("Because I’m already aware of the reasons why he would do this." ). I understand your approach; this game is to find out who's town and who's scum. I accept your argument and at the end of the day our goal is to scumhunt.

[shellyc]

@Micc: I didn't read your post 56 alright. I'm sorry for that. My definition of pocketing is to make yourself seem favourable to another player, which is what you're doing by saying you're "betrayed"

[shellyc]

As the "investigator" you still get attention, you are the one pushing others. That isn't directing the conversation away imo. Also a mafia would not have motivation to investigate, they would rather defend themselves.

[shellyc]

@ItalianoVD: So post based reads are the main thing we've got (there is vote analysis). In my opinion defending players can be of either alignment, though it often happens unconsciously as scum.

For post 75, I think that's contradictory. "not base a read off", "I too find that odd" AND "doesn't seem right" is pretty much going round a circle, and it's not advancing anything at all.

For post 78 I don't see the contradiction though, he agreed that it was in jest and told people to unvote.

[shellyc]

@GeniusGamer (post 136) Ah. I understand now, it's absolutely great to have preliminary reads.

Some reads:
ItalianoVD: Seems pretty active and was pushing GeniusGamer, which is an alright sus at this stage in my opinion, for his wording.
GeniusGamer: Was pushed and defence is average. Sounds like a fellow newbie. He's starting to talk more though. Needs a closer look.
Porkens: Very aggressive and pushing people, which is how we get info. Strongest townread for now.
MiniMegabyte: newbie vibes, kinda on the quiet side, says he's lost, maybe a little scumleaning here not sure.
Redados, Micc and T-Bone, though posting, haven't posted a ton of game-advancing stuff. (though I understand work commitments etc.)

[shellyc]

I disagreed that T-Bone was scum, thus unvoted in post 98.

My read on T-Bone changed after he started talking and I got better vibes from him. To unvote a seemingly town-ish player is what I should do.

[shellyc]

I did not. I said likely, not 100%. I was pointing out how a third person to jump on a bandwagon might be scum trying to push someone (could be town as well, nothing is certain)

[shellyc]

1. your push on Micc for "pocketing', which I agree with.
2. your push on GeniusGamer's wording, which I think is valid.

those two reasons made me unvote you in post 98.

[shellyc]

It's only a single thing and not enough for me to cast a vote. Yet T-Bone had two actions to make him seem town.

[shellyc]

Minimegabyte, you've mainly said things like "I'm confused" and "I'm a little lost". Not contributing a lot of game-advancing content and seems a lot like scum to me.
VOTE: Minimegabyte

[shellyc]

Look at that OMGUS right there. Sussing me for sussing you. You haven't been sussing and questioning people, or stating your reads, and to me you seem either apathetic town or scum.

Your posts have done almost nothing in forwarding our discussion, and most of your 10 posts were in the RVS. That's a scummy thing to do in my opinion. I'm not saying that you're 100% scum, but I stand by my vote.

[shellyc]

Better than you barely posting in the RVS. Yeah okay could be a Timezone thing but what if you wanted to see everyone else post first and then come in so you had a start on where to go? Seems a little sus to me. But anyway not saying you can’t vote me but I’m not voting you just because you voted me. Purely voting you because I feel in my gut that sometime isn’t right with you just seems off

It really is a timezone thing as Redados pointed out. What makes your gut feel like I'm scum (I'm curious)? Also, in post 121 I was saying that the scum would not have motivation to be the "investigator". You quoted post 121, so are you trying to point out that I'm

not

scum by being the "investigator" or what?

[shellyc]

@N0blenoob (post 184 / 201): How are we supposed to scumhunt without asking questions and suspecting others? Town's wincon is to eliminate all the scum and would push their scumreads and vote them. Mafia is supposed to seem town, not be town. They do not need to push scum.

Town is supposed to be the proactive side trying to find scum. Without questioning others, even at this early stage, how can we find and vote the mafia? "No evidence". We get evidence from QUESTIONING and INTERACTION.

[shellyc]

Also I was suspecting Minimegabyte for not posting a lot of game-advancing content, and you're defending him now for my "questioning". It's totally possible that you two are partners, keep that in mind.

[shellyc]

Elimination is the town's only way to get rid of mafia. Mafia will kill town in the night.

It takes 2-3 mislynches for mafia to win (2 mafia v 2 town), and 2 correct lynches for town to win

[shellyc]

Not been very active for the last hours, eh?

[shellyc]

Minimegabyte, you seem newbie town for your defense at my suspicion. I'll unvote you for now, you seem to be giving more original thoughts. UNVOTE: MiniMegabyte

What did I post in the middle that makes you scumread me? Suspecting you?

[shellyc]

Italiano, I was questioning things that stood out to me. If there’s something specific you think I’m ignoring please point it out and I’ll tell you what I think.

Humans have bias, and I think avatars have an effect on reads. How you choose to present yourself is up to you.

Here are some reads:

T-Bone kinda pinged me with his buddy buddy talk with Micc.

Genius not voting is off putting to me because I think scum can be afraid of how their votes will make people read them.

Italiano is a bit inconsistent. First calling post based reads bad and then doing quite. A bit of post based reads.

Shelly has some questionable logic and she and red have a weird synergy going on. Mostly it’s Shelly shadowing red on certain things but there’s a touch of reciprocation. Red has also given some questionable justifications.

Mini mega could be mafia based on the “confused noob” posts but also could be ropebait.

Noble noob has said nothing about mini mega and vise versa, and the “I’m glad someone saw what I was doing there” post felt kinda like unnecessary justification to me.

'

What's the questionable logic you're talking about?
Those reads being similar to Redados isn't a thing I can control, I hadn't read that post and it's probably just a coincidence. Redados gave 3 reads, I gave reads of all active players.
Also idk what interactions were "partner-like" to you.

When looking at ISO, Porkens' only comment on Micc has been how he's been playing in a "protown" way. He doesn't even include Micc in his reads. For an SE, this is quite an overlook. This could be a potential partnership.

[shellyc]

initial impressions:

shellyc - I'm a little put off that the majority of shelly's pushes have been about activity, and she somehow hasn't noticed me not being here for like three days? Other pushes such as against minimegabyte for OMGUS and "third vote on a wagon" as a tell straight out of the wiki are indications she's new to forum mafia. leaning town on the effort to make reads even though I don't think there's enough depth towards her reads being accurate.

N0bleNoob - I think that "player is controlling the narrative by making all the pushes" is a thought that comes from newbie scum more often than town. taking the initiative to push porkens is a good thought, but the execution was a little weak, made it feel like not a real push.

MiniMegabyte - in 172 minimegabyte does kinda misrepresent her contributions to the game. I'd say shelly's accusation of "mainly" posting non-game advancing content is more accurate than mini's "2 out of 10". The shelly vote and unvote really does feel like OMGUS. There's not really any other explanation or scumhunting going on there that I see.

ItalianoVD - feels pretty town. the unsureness about SE's in particular feels genuine. also thought his reaction to my push out of RVS was good. 123 is a thought from someone who is legitimately scum hunting.

Redados - didn't really think the italiano push he made was justified, but like the way he's gone about engaging about that read.

GeniusGamer - really not very memorable, even going back now to look at his ISO. I'll have to come back to this later for the sake of finishing this post

Porkens - little suspicious here because I think if porkens was scum his plan would involve coming out firing with the pushes as he has here. I have enough respect for his town game that I'd rather let him find a read and engage from there.

T-Bone - i think the page 3 RVS vote was kinda suspect, and sitting on it until page 10 is even more so. i think even if he's got a scum read on me here he hasn't gone about pursuing it in a town like manor, or done mush else in a town like manor.

Why are you on MiniMegabyte rather than T-Bone / N0bleNoob if you find them more suspect?

[shellyc]

Micc is quite scummy to me, they haven't been contributing much as an SE. Also her reads post were SRing almost everyone, which is fairly suspect.

VOTE: Micc

[shellyc]

Also Porkens' vote is still parked on me, which was made BEFORE I started talking. You're questioning people, but have not formulated an actual suspicion and voted.

[shellyc]

Explain. I don't see this occurrence happening in my posts, after looking in ISO.

[shellyc]

it's just a SINGLE READ COLLECTION. Ok, the wording is similar. Is that a SR to you, that we might be partnered?

[shellyc]

I do maintain this position.

[shellyc]

Redados, you think N0ble, genius and GeniusGamer have been passive, but I'm a SR though not labeled as "passive". Any reason for this?

The thing about Micc is they have been passive and not really making reads, after looking in ISO.

[shellyc]

Redados, why did you vote for N0bleNoob out of the 4?

Also I havent given thoughts on N0bleNoob because I don't see anything that stands out in ISO. They've been practically invisible and have been prodded.

[shellyc]

Sorry, my work's been unexpectedly busy. I'm going to read all the posts i've missed

[shellyc]

@red, no I don’t think it’s that weak. She is definitely sheeping reads, which could very well be a scum player who’s having trouble forming town-like thoughts on the game.

Yes and no, because in my head it ended up being a lower percentage of her posts than I remembered it being. She did have plenty of original thoughts.

Also, am I correct that it's also a noob thing to sheep reads too? That seems like something I tried to do in my first game was try to say SOMETHING and I didn't have original thoughts because I was pretty new to the game.

It's my first game on mafiascum, and I haven't been playing mafia for months. I don't have a ton of thoughts on the gamestate, and that is NAI.

[shellyc]

I'm going to unvote Micc, he's going to get replaced and I rather wait for the new replacement.
UNVOTE: Micc

[shellyc]

That’s fine, and I’m looking forward to seeing what the replacements have to offer. My general message still stands though: I think it’s time to consolidate on 1 or 2 folks we can come to some compromise on.

In my opinion, because Micc / N0ble are getting replaced, there's no point to park votes on them.
Minimegabyte has continued to seem townie after I unvoted them, I see him as a TR right now.
Italiano has given susses and I like his reads and logic. I don't know about alignment but leaning on town.
Porkens has been helping town advance the wincon by questioning and pushing, but has some logic I don't agree with. I see him as slight TR.
T-Bone has been pushing Micc, who hasn't posted in days. And that's it. I'd like to hear more from T-Bone.
GeniusGamer a little scummy, I agree with ItalianoVD that he is playing passively.
Redados is fairly sus. He did an OMGUS on Italiano which I think is quite odd, then reversed his statement. I see him as slight SR.
Redados / T-Bone could be a good vote today.

[shellyc]

SJReavers, Welcome to the thread.

Am I seriously a plagiarist? are you saying that I demonstrate no thought?

[shellyc]

I'm scumreading GeniusGamer. Can someone else ISO him so I know I'm not crazy? He has said practically nothing this whole game despite posting a large amount of times.

Hesitant to vote for him because of OMGUS. But I said I was scumreading him in post #294 and I haven't seen much to change my mind since then.

On the other hand, if he is scum, I would have thought by now that his partner would have told him to correct his play. So idk. If he's scum, I don't think his partner is an SE.

hmmm. I think he's probably a good vote today. I looked at his ISO and it seems really passive, not sure though

[shellyc]

Italiano, why did you hop on this BW? without any further agreement / disagreement on the vote. There are 2 people on and i'd like to hear his defense before voting

[shellyc]

The two leading wagons are Red and Genius. They both have sussed each other.
I feel like Red's ISO looks slightly better, he did that reverse on Italiano, but I see his posts demonstrate thought, unlike GeniusGamer's.

I feel like my order of sus would be (towniest to scummiest): Minimegabyte -> SJReaver -> Porkens -> Hat guy (need to hear more) -> Redados -> T-Bone -> GeniusGamer
Genius please defend your lack of contribution and passiveness, if not I have to park my vote on you
Also Porkens didn't include red in 466, is that an oversight

[shellyc]

Accidentally left out Italiano, should be this:
Italiano -> Minimegabyte -> SJReaver -> Porkens -> Hat guy (need to hear more) -> Redados -> T-Bone -> GeniusGamer

[shellyc]

I just isoed red to see what taht was about. before sharing a opinion on red, first I want u to address somethin:
U said u read 2 Italianos games to solidify ur opinion. Firs of all, u already stated u thought italiano was town before, when he first pushed. Did u read it at that point? If not, why did u find the need to search for previous games of Italiano?
Finally, why those changed ur opinion? Care to elaborate what u found and why it is consistent with town Italiano?

Order of operations:
-I read Italiano as scum
-I read Italiano as town
-(I read one of Italiano's games)
-I post that I read one of Italiano's games and that I think he's town
-(I read Italiano's other game)
-I post that I read on of Italiano's other games and that I think he's town.

I hope that was enough that you feel ready to share your opinion on me.

there r still 2 points I want:
1. WHY did u read his games (and there is no correct answer; just give me ur thought process on why it was worthwhile to invest time on reading one of his ganes)
2. What did u see on those games, maybe in a broad way, to make u think he was more townie for this

1. This game was moving very slowly at the time, not a lot of activity, so I read three games: two Italiano games and one Porkens game. I wanted to learn more.
2. Italiano in both games (and he was town in both ways) speaks and writes the same way. He has short points with his semi-spontaneous thoughts and he has long posts where he quotes people and speaks with them point by point. In both games, he makes the same sort of pushes on people. In general, I see a lot of similarities between his two town games and his current game.

The second Italiano game I read was also MiniMegabyte's first game. In that game she also did the "I'm confused" thing, so that was disappointing to see that she was still doing that in this game. She was town in that game too. That game doesn't teach me about her alignment though, because even though she played similarly and she was town that game, she either is figuring things out is scum and figured out she can keep doing that, or she hasn't quite figured things out and she's town. So that's NAI.

The game I read of Porkens was a blitz game and he played COMPLETELY differently. In the current game, he is constantly pushing and asking questions, but in that blitz game he hung back and was pretty passive and not even super active. However, Porkens has been on this site a long time, and as T-Bone said earlier in this game the more experienced a player is, the worse that meta is. So of the hundred games that Porkens has played, I don't think I learn anything about Porkens' alignment either. Plus, Porkens style in this game where he pushes and makes everyone justify their words and their actions could just be a strategy for how he plays in newbie games (he plays in a lot of games, it's tough to sift through).

So after reading those three games, I'm starting to agree with T-Bone when he says that "meta is trash". I read three games, got AI, NAI, NAI on the three people I was keeping track of, so in relation to the time I spent, I didn't really learn much.

That said, I'll probably keep reading old games and thinking like this, because it's fun and I want to stay active and involved and keep learning while helping the town. So we'll see.

For example, this post sounds like a townie post, with an attempt to read people with meta. I like this a lot, red

[shellyc]

A 3-person bandwagon. I can see how this is a solid vote, so I'm going to place this at E-1. GeniusGamer is my biggest sus as stated before.
VOTE: GeniusGamer

[shellyc]

really? I read it was E-1 but eLimination works

[shellyc]

What if he flips blue, would any scum be on the quick bandwagon

[shellyc]

I dont think there's a defining post, just looking at his ISO it's agreed that he's sus

[shellyc]

Are you trying to say that I look scummy by jumping on this BW, which I have stated that I agree with?
Are you trying to say that Town's wincon is not to eliminate scummy people?

[shellyc]

I said he was Hat Guy because I didn't really manage to read all of his posting, and the most recognisable part of him was his hat avatar
and no, I didn't copy and paste them, I just like writing things out in full

[shellyc]

Also don't miss post 505 please

[shellyc]

If I had copy and pasted, it would be MiniMegabyte, not Minimegabyte.

[shellyc]

"Oooh, that defensive reaching."
What do you mean?
and in 511 why did you discredit yourself and ask SEs to help you out.

[shellyc]

And why don't you think the others that have jumped on the bandwagon like GeniusGamer are suspect?
You have said I'm a "plagiarist" in your opening post and you're still on me. What aspect of my play leaves more to be desired?

[shellyc]

I don't think I look like I demonstrate no thought in ISO, and I didn't blindly jump on that bandwagon. I don't understand why you are trying to push me.
I said that he was passive and SR him in post 384 and even way back in post 106.

[shellyc]

Also please answer my above posts

[shellyc]

Townreading too many people is a scum meta imo
Word replaced in a few hours ago, when I made the reads list. It was not a deliberate intention of mine
Why do you think this is a scum motivated wagon when there is evidence from ISO pointing to him being scum?

[shellyc]

Also why do you think asking questions and inquiring is "continued defensiveness"?

[shellyc]

So you read GeniusGamer as town and concede this may be a mislynch?
I'm not mafia. I know PoE wise I might look bad, but I don't know how you consider me as scummy all of a sudden
For word, I haven't seen him post much, and I'd like to take a closer look at him

[shellyc]

SJReavers, didn't Redados push Genius? Although he didn't go on the wagon in fear of OMGUS, but he definitely turned the tide towards Genius

[shellyc]

Also do you think baiting and mind games are alignment indicative? I'd like to dig deeper into word's "mind game" posting, which you think are scummy

[shellyc]

Just because I pivoted, doesn't mean I'm scum. In those 25 minutes, I read his ISO, investigated the words, and decided that he would be a better vote than any other options. I also stated him as my biggest sus, which I'd like to vote off.
Dead tunneling will get you nowhere. Mafia requires a level of flexibility, being open to any new susses that crop up is a townie trait.

[shellyc]

Wow I'm at E-1 all so suddenly. Also I just read the mason claim.UNVOTE: GeniusGamer
I am a

Vanilla Townie

and I don't know where this vote came from.
Suddenly Genius roleclaims and I'm voted because of PoE? Now Italiano starts this bandwagon ALL OF A SUDDEN.
I dont understand this universal townread on SJR. He replaced in, and just gets TR by everyone.
Also I feel like Redados could be a vote here

[shellyc]

Alright so with these new events in mind. I can assume:

Town:
Genius
SJReaver
Myself
Porkens
TBone
Mini
Red

That leaves Shelly and Word (Micc) as scum

This list? how can you be sure that almost all are town at d1

[shellyc]

Here's my readlist:

Town:
SJReaver
GeniusGamer
ItalianoVD

Null:
Porkens
T-Bone
Hat Guy

Scum and/or Confused Townie:
ShellyC
MiniMegabyte

I would prefer to vote for Shelly or Mini today. Mini less likely to be scum than Shelly imo

Ok so I'm universal scum, after your universal town death tunnels me. amazing play guys, this futile attempt to get me mislynched seriously gained traction.

[shellyc]

I'm vanilla town. I'm just a town, on the verge of a mislynch.
Why is this game so unforgiving to newbies? I don't see why I'm locked scum by everyone.
SJR and Genius are town. Italiano is town-read by locked town.
Also I know that fakeclaim is impossible. Sorry I just realised SJR was the second mason.
I think word is like so much scummier here. Porkens I could see him as scum but not as much

[shellyc]

VOTE: word321

[shellyc]

All I see are reads lists putting me as scum, because of PoE.
SJR / GG are confirmed Masons.
Italiano is generally thought of as town
I don't know why the many options out there are not explored.
I think word321 / Porkens / Red is a way better option.
I'm new; I dont know how to defend myself.
But I WILL NOT SELF HAMMER. BECAUSE I AM TOWNIE, AND PLEASE STOP TUNNELING ME. I'LL FIGHT TILL THE END TO STOP THIS MISELIMINATE.
"not super unmotivating" hey what do you want me to do

[shellyc]

Intent to hammer on ShellyC

I'll give it another hour or so in case anyone wants to give parting thoughts.

Hammering me will get us nowhere. I'd rather you hammer word

[shellyc]

Not everyone thinks you are scum, hence the people voting for word321 instead. Relax. Someone has to get limmed on Day 1.

You know, I got my VT role PM, went into this game as a total newbie, pushed a guy that I had no idea was Mason, and just got pushed. And I'm tunneled by confirmed town. I'm legit freaking out right now

[shellyc]

Thanks T-Bone.
The others that pushed Genius were Italiano, Porkens, Mini.
I feel like Mini / Porkens would be scum here. Mini's not been talking a lot, Porkens could be pushing a ML there.
I feel like Red didn't want to elim him because it'd look like OMGUS, which is focusing on appearance. Town would vote out their sus at all costs.
The people that are on me now, word is suspect. I dont like how apathetic he's been

[shellyc]

I read a game of Porkens and it seemed like he was just much less pushy, but he was still town
I honestly dunno about this

[shellyc]

Wait who's on word right now

[shellyc]

Hello, hello here we go. Salutations to another day. Also YESSS, we got the scum yesterday!

T-Bone, are you saying because of the "correct" kill made, an SE is more likely to be scum? (i dont know what correct means)
I feel like Italiano is pretty much locked town here. His posts are coming from a townie mindset in my opinion, and he was TR by SJR.
Red in 713, you put it like Porkens is the only guy that needs to scumhunt. This isn't true, it's our shared objective.

At the start of the game I TR Porkens, because I tend to see aggressive people as town.
But after a bit of reading, I feel like aggressive =/= town, and scum can feign it.
I think Porkens might be a good lynch today, but i'd like to see his defense.

[shellyc]

I like Red a lot here. He's not in my lynchpool. He has posted a few long posts analysing various aspects. I feel like scum wouldn't have the motivation to do this.

Porkens, Mini, possibly T-Bone? would be my lynches.
Also you TR T-Bone in post 701 but put him in lynchpool in post 723. That's contradictory.

My reads: (in order from town -> scum)

GeniusGamer

ItalianoVD

Redados

T-Bone

MiniMegabyte

Porkens

[shellyc]

Noted with thanks Redados. I missed the NKA part.

[shellyc]

Hmmm. Where do you consider me to have "townslipped"? I don't know what you mean. But it's nice to see you reading me as townie.

[shellyc]

You're too good, and that's why I've narrowed it down to two.

Is stating the correct NK townie? I think thats NAI in my opinion

[shellyc]

I do want to ask the question as to why a lot of people are scum reading Porkens?

PoE, NKA, how his posts are NAI

[shellyc]

I like Red a lot here. He's not in my lynchpool. He has posted a few long posts analysing various aspects. I feel like scum wouldn't have the motivation to do this.

Porkens, Mini, possibly T-Bone? would be my lynches.
Also you TR T-Bone in post 701 but put him in lynchpool in post 723. That's contradictory.

My reads: (in order from town -> scum)

GeniusGamer

ItalianoVD

Redados

T-Bone

MiniMegabyte

Porkens

Might change porkens to purple zone after that post

[shellyc]

744 Okay that’s understandable I did get on and see that word321 was being voted but I didn’t vote as when I got on they were at E-1 and no claim had been made from them. When I got the time to jump back on site they had been eliminated and it was night time so if you like I can post my reads since the confirmation of the two masons and the elimination of word321

Please post a reads list, more information is good!

In regards to (1), now that T-Bone has posted his night kill analysis, I don't think that you (MiniMegabyte) are mafia.

My reads list-

Town:
GeniusGamer
Redados

Convincing Town:
T-Bone
ItalianoVD

New Town:
ShellyC
MiniMegabyte

Scum?:
Porkens

This is evolving and it's totally possible that I'm tunneling here. Also possibly sheeping because I honestly had not really thought more about the night kill until T-Bone said something.

Did you just townread everyone...

[shellyc]

Hmmm this is a really good post.

As Micc is an SE, would Micc be bussing MM, while MM distances from Micc/Word? is that possible

[shellyc]

Italiano ISO key points: (MiccWord interactions)
- I think he called out Micc in #129?
- Italiano can’t get a read off of Micc in #187
- Questioning my Micc vote in #287?
- Thinks T-Bone and Micc are having a town-town interaction in #465 (RED ALERT)
- leaves me and word as scum in #585
- Hammered word

From the above I can say that he may be partnered with MiccWord. His interactions with Micc were much more partner-ish (maybe word told italiano to bus him?)

[shellyc]

wait you already did an analysis on Italiano. didn't realise that before posting

[shellyc]

Ok finished reading your wall. That was from the perspective of Micc/Word's ISO, mine was from ItalianoVD's ISO. We both came to the same conclusion.

I agree with the save/bus development, especially after reading Word/Micc ISO. Also the lack of interactions between the two are glaringly suspect to me. I'd like to put some pressure on Italiano.

VOTE: ItalianoVD

[shellyc]

I'll start with the conclusion that Italiano is probably MiccWord's partner.

could confirmation bias have affected your analysis

[shellyc]

So now there is suspicion on Italiano when wasnt he the one that everyone was saying that he was town from the beginning? I am not eaxctly confident on this as he is playing exactly the same as the game i last played with him where he was town.

He might have improved / adjusted to feedback from MiccWord

[shellyc]

That sounds really confident from Italiano. Though if this comes as a mislim I'm not surprised the next in line might be Porkens

[shellyc]

MAY I ASK WHERE YOUR DEFENSE IS. it's been 1 hour dude

[shellyc]

Even a really massive one shouldn't take an hour in my opinion

[shellyc]

Ok I just realised you sent this. I look forward to your paragraph

[shellyc]

Me: refreshes the page every 5 mins
Italiano: still writing an essay

[shellyc]

I never said he was scum, I'm just kinda impatient.

[shellyc]

NEW READS LIST: (based on partnerships, NKA, and my old reads list)

Townie:
GeniusGamer (lock town)
Redados (his posting and mindset, also not likely partner with MiccWord)
T-Bone (he kept attacking MiccWord, thus not a partner)

Less Townie:
Porkens (I agree with his Italiano partnership speculation, but still suspect from a NKA and PoE perspective)
MiniMegabyte (Proclaims to be new town, but this "distancing" could be a scum tactic)
ItalianoVD (partnership analysis, but looks town-ish from posting, it all could be a facade, but if he flips town Porkens is sus)

My vote is on Italiano to pressure him and get him to defend himself.

[shellyc]

For the twilight posts, why would Porkens try and give word a chance to speak, when word is clearly elimmed?
Also it'd make him look bad.

[shellyc]

Otherwise, I feel like your other points are pretty valid. You two are OMGUSsing each other. interesting

[shellyc]

Consider the possibility that Porkens is scum; Porkens went back and ISOd and made the best case possible. There isn't really anyone else that Porkens can push for as scum here. Scum!Porkens would have had to make do with what they have to work with, which is that ItalianoVD looks the "worst" among everyone left that isn't Porkens.

I thought Italiano was highly townread so "worst"???
Porkens could have made a case on "mislynchables" like me and mini

[shellyc]

yeah NKA / voting / partnership wise, I feel like these two are the lynches

[shellyc]

Redados and Italiano vs Porkens and me (kinda).
I’m leaning towards Porkens' case. I buy into his partner analysis.
But I'm open to anything, but the defense wasn't super motivating for me

[shellyc]

I backed off of ShellyC after they posted. In hindsight, this was the correct decision. However in the moment it gave me a lot of pause and it was a huge possibility that I left my vote on her. I think that not switching her vote is only AI in hindsight, I completely believe that Town!Porkens would have acted the same way. Porkens pushed for shelly for eight pages, as you said. It's in character/consistent to push for Shelly's elimination there.

I dont know what he was doing there, but he seemed to think I was a "target" of sorts

[shellyc]

Yeah but I don't think him targeting you is AI because I also honestly was convinced you were scum

Why did you go off me after my defense if you thought I was scum

[shellyc]

Hi. I'm not an expert on looking into ISO. However, I have tried my best to state everything about the Porkens - Micc/Word interactions.
But here are my thoughts:
- #208 "I feel like Micc is playing in a protown way, but of course I think he’s just being a good SE." (is this distancing? hesitant to put TR because of fear for partnership identification?)
- #247 NOTHING ABOUT MICC????? (very suspect, I feel like a good townsperson would analyse every player)
- #285 "What do you find particularly scummy about Micc?" the answer to my SR. Sounds like an SE trying to prove my Porkens read wrong? idk
- #288 "Micc-T It seemed jovial to me, like trying to engender fondness." when it was totally not "jovial" in my opinion
- #328 ?????? what do you mean don't see him giving up
- #363 "Micc I am not feeling at all." this again sounds like defending Micc.
- at #466 he put MiccWord second scummiest.
- #685 "I will take another look at word hat." what does this mean, putting him at null read when he's the biggest wagon...
- then he told us to give word a chance to speak?!

In conclusion I feel like a partner is plausible from Porkens' ISO. Both Italiano and Porkens are possible partners according to what I saw.

[shellyc]

I'd like to see Porkens interact with that defense, which I feel is legit after a quick-read.
UNVOTE: ItalianoVD

[shellyc]

Hmmmm. From my PoV one scum is between Italiano and Porkens.
If Italiano flips scum, game over.
If Italiano flips townie, we should elim Porkens, right

[shellyc]

Which leaves Porkens and Redados.

Why haven't you considered Redados as a possible candidate for suspect? How about the unlikely event that both Porkens and Italiano are town

[shellyc]

*And Redados is actually the scum

[shellyc]

Suggested direction: ItalianoVD -> Porkens -> Red -> T-Bone -> MiniMegabyte
I know I am town and Genius is locked town

[shellyc]

Which leaves Porkens and Redados.

Why haven't you considered Redados as a possible candidate for suspect? How about the unlikely event that both Porkens and Italiano are town

This is a weird post. Did you mean to write this? Lol

What do you mean weird

[shellyc]

You quoted this:

Which leaves Porkens and Redados.

I had literally just said that I thought Redados was a suspect along with Porkens

That’s when you posted this.

Why haven't you considered Redados as a possible candidate for suspect? How about the unlikely event that both Porkens and Italiano are town

Do you see how I find that a weird post?

I didn't read your post before posting

[shellyc]

Yeah I look like a plagiariser, don't I.
Also I was trying to ask you to think in a different direction...

[shellyc]

I was more like trying to say:
Why are you so adamant on your case for Scum!Porkens, while this other Redados window is open

[shellyc]

Flip = more about if hes town or scum

[shellyc]

However, if I’m wrong, it’ll be 2:1 with three of (T-Bone, MM, Red, Shelly). So today, I’ll be focusing one these players.

What do you mean by "focus"

[shellyc]

Interesting. So aside from me who your pick for likeliest partner?

Italiano is as likely as Porkens to be the partner in my opinion and analysis, from ISO.
Therefore, the best play for us here is to eliminate both.

[shellyc]

If that endgame happens, T-Bone / MiniMegabyte / Redados must be the scum from my point of view.
T-Bone is my TR and he has bussed INSANELY if this partnership stands (special things might happen with a redteam of the listmods)
MiniMegabyte has held a facade of "new townie" throughout and hasn't really done many interactions to stand out.
But Micc has pushed him and encouraged GG to vote him. Unlikely partner. Also I read MiniMegabyte's first game (as townie), and he's playing pretty similar.

This leaves, Redados...

[shellyc]

T-Bone / MiccWord. Interesting.

I look forward to your case

[shellyc]

I look forward to your will then

[shellyc]

Hey. Porkens, you accept death and you are going to state your last words. I'm going to cast this vote. But please don't hammer, I'd like to hear your will.

You're dead. Here's the E-1 vote. If you flip town, we are going after Italiano.

VOTE: Porkens

[shellyc]

You disproved me as partner yesterday, hmmmm.

[shellyc]

A sudden change of heart? state your evidence.

[shellyc]

Sure you will. If I am eliminated and I prove to be town what will be your plan then? Make a case on Mini or TBone or Shelly again. What are you gonna keep making wrong cases until it’s Lylo?

I feel like Italiano is right here. Whatever you try to frame me as, I'm townie. And I'll try my best to prove you wrong. because you're

wrong

.

[shellyc]

Sure you will. If I am eliminated and I prove to be town what will be your plan then? Make a case on Mini or TBone or Shelly again. What are you gonna keep making wrong cases until it’s Lylo?

I feel like Italiano is right here. Whatever you try to frame me as, I'm townie. And I'll try my best to prove you wrong. because you're

wrong

.

Good! You will have to, because from my next standing of the gamestate, u will be target #1 if this should go to a four way.
But like I said, it won’t, because italiano is mafia.

In my opinion, I feel like Redados is more scummy with that 4 way battle.

[shellyc]

Unless T-Bone was insane bussing. Because in terms of NKA T-Bone would have made that correct kill.

[shellyc]

If Shellyc appealed to emotion as scum she did a good job and deserves to win.

I stated what I felt when I was at E-1. Because I fear a mislim. I want to avoid a mislim at all costs, especially my own.
Someone declared intent to hammer, I didn't want mafia to get the advantage day 1.
It was all genuine emotion. Not "appeal to emotion", as you put it. I was afraid and that was the defense for me to avoid that miselimination.

[shellyc]

Again, you really don't need to stress about this if you are town.

Avoiding the question? hmmm

[shellyc]

I've given my reads of the 4, what are yours?

What are you adamant that I'm the scum out of the 4

[shellyc]

Sorry, I meant something like are you avoiding Italiano's statement: "No, your plan to just keep making wrong cases."

Are you implying that you are making wrong cases if you assure Italiano to not stress about this?

[shellyc]

Because if people are so sure then there should be no need for extra discussion time.

Did you just scumslip? Town would definitely want and need discussion time; it is our way of finding the scum.

The current plan: Porkens -> Italiano -> the f4 with me, you, Redados, and T-Bone

We need to sort out the future of town. The different possibilities that may arise, even though Porkens is scummiest right now.

[shellyc]

ShellyC, you have been scum read by enough people in this game to get to E-1. It's inevitable, in a 3p situation that you are going to be the target of elimination, so you need to be ready for that. I'm calling you scum NOW so you can start to think about how you are going to defend yourself THEN. Your reaction is overly defensive in my opinion, so be prepared to explain why it isn't. And try, as much as you can, to generate as much original content as possible. Avoid repeating what others have said, even if you agree. Find a way to say it in your own words.

Do you think I have not generated original content? Also how do I defend myself when nobody has made a case against me?

[shellyc]

What do you find scummy about me? I'll converse geniunely.

[shellyc]

Yes, Porkens is scummiest. But what if he flips town?

We need to plan for our future.

[shellyc]

Yes, Porkens is scummiest. But what if he flips town?

We need to plan for our future.

[shellyc]

Please directly answer my question. We can talk.

[shellyc]

In response to your question shelly: my scum read of you was based on the way you seemed to be repeating points made by other players - many times using the same words.

So if I make more original points I am townie? That's kinda NAI in my opinion. Using the same words? So if I use a dictionary I'd be townread? Doesn't really make sense.

[shellyc]

I've basically agreed to be the elimination and Italiano has agreed to be the elimination tomorrow.

MiniMegabyte see this. This is gamesolving, making sure the scum is eventually eliminated

[shellyc]

Can I just say something, two people being scum read the most right now both willing to be eliminated? Doesn’t that seem to you that they may both be town? I’m not sure

Scumslip again? because you know they aren't scum as YOU ARE THE SCUM.

[shellyc]

Can I just say something, two people being scum read the most right now both willing to be eliminated? Doesn’t that seem to you that they may both be town? I’m not sure

Scumslip again? because you know they aren't scum as YOU ARE THE SCUM.

But given the situation why would she be saying

anything

? If she were scum, wouldn't she just stay quiet here?

that's just my thought, I mean she could stay quiet, but she'd get called out for it

[shellyc]

Ok, I'm going to read through that T-Bone and Porkens exchange and give my thoughts.

I feel like T-Bone should be the f4 elim though, at this point

[shellyc]

I’m not really trying to convince you, I’m trying to make sure they don’t give you an automatic pass on the hypothetical day 4.

Porkens, why are you so worried about the "hypothetical day 4" when your biggest SR is italiano

[shellyc]

Erratic, unobservant and poor discernment of what people say. Anyone playing like you play is bad for town. The fact that you have years of experience and are playing like this makes me scratch my head. I wouldn’t expect townyou (even if you were rusty) to play this way so the logical conclusion is that you are scum.

Italiano, what does this mean?

[shellyc]

Redados, correct.

[shellyc]

I agree that sometimes what Porkens has said has been erratic. For example, he thought my lack of paraphrasing was a scumtell.

I'm not sure he's as bad as your described though

[shellyc]

If so...then why isn't he as bad as Italiano describes? If he is as bad as Italiano describes...then he's scum.

Erratic / unobservant / poor discernment is NAI, but not helpful to town.

[shellyc]

What’s erratic was him voting and pushing for you, but saying he didn’t know who the scum was when asked.

948 sounds like a scumslip though. You seem to know my alignment, which is only possible if you were mafia.

[shellyc]

This is why I said, you will not find scum posts by ISOing. That's not me saying that no one should do it, you do what works for you. I'm saying that most posts are NAI. Even now, most of what Porkens is doing is NAI. He is never going to smoking gun ever confirm himself as town or scum. I'm the same way. When Porkens says that maybe I bussed Micc...he's absolutely right to say that because I am certainly capable of that long con. You're never going to be able to quote like half my ISO and go 'this is scum', 'this is scum', 'that is also scum', etc. in the same way I am not going to be able to do that for anyone else either. It's why on its face both my case on Micc/Word looked weak, and why even now the case on Porkens is weak as well. Strong cases are kinda a myth in mafia. That's why I opened day 2 not talking about anyone's scummy ISO, but asking about the nightkill. That I have narrowed it down to both Porkens, and yourself Red, is both a function of the game state, a function of my reads on other players, rather than any handful of posts in your ISO. If you're scum, you don't have that smoking gun set of posts either. But neither does Mini, Shelly, or Italiano either.

So do you feel Italiano is town here, T-Bone

[shellyc]

Also as you said, there are no set of posts that are "scum posts". Being erratic could be bad / newbie town. The reason why my vote is on Porkens is partnership analysis, PoE, and nightkill analysis.

[shellyc]

Redados / T-Bone / You are the eliminations from my PoV (f4 situation), T-Bone is the proposed and probable elim for now

[shellyc]

1. You've townslip over and over again. MiniMegabyte is TR, but noob town, and might not be really helpful in mylo.
2. I like Redados' posting and they literally pivoted the wagon to word321. He also did WIFOM analysis and read Porkens' games. I don't think a scum would waste time doing that.
3. Sure, T-Bone megabussed but redteam of the listmods could bring next-level thinking. Also his posting is the scummiest of the trio, and NKA fits.

Nothing set in stone, but I'd prefer Red / T-Bone as the elims in that situation.

[shellyc]

This is going nowhere, maybe Porkens gave up? He's V/LA but we dont know for how long

[shellyc]

Red, T-Bone, Shelly, MM in that order at this point I guess.

I thought you said I'm probably the scum in f4...

[shellyc]

Where did all the activity go?

[shellyc]

I'm actually less okay with your death pact but am vacillating between whether I am falling for the mist or not tyvm Porkens

What does this mean

[shellyc]

Porkens is hammered. Let’s hope this is game over, because I think it's going to be.

[shellyc]

Alright. To my surprise, Porkens flipped TOWN. Today is probably ItalianoVD's elimination, as agreed. #984 states that he would "personally lead the push to his elimination".

Italiano could definitely be partnered with word321, in terms of partnership analysis. Italiano can’t get a read off of Micc in #187 and questioned my Micc vote in #287. He said me / word321 were the scum, but voted for me. Then he illogically hammered word. Micc has little interaction with Italiano, and word doesn't mention him once.

Now, what about the f4 situation with MiniMegabyte / T-Bone / Redados / me? Although there is an extremely high chance Italiano is scum, I feel like if Italiano flips town, T-Bone is the remaining scum. From a night kill analysis perspective, he would have made the correct kill. He had sussed Micc / Word a LOT, but as SE / listmod partners, they could have bussed. It isn't impossible to consider them as partners. Also, as MiniMegabyte reads newbie town to me, and Redados' posting feels town-ish to me, I think from a PoE aspect T-Bone is the scum, if Italiano is not.

In terms of NKA, how do you think the next night kill can help us scumhunt?

VOTE: ItalianoVD

[shellyc]

But this is interesting. Shelly, you were quick to vote for me, without even a hesitation and without using actual logic. I actually wanted to vote for myself to see the town's reactions and you ma'am, your reaction was less than ideal. Your reaction was what I was looking for, not you exactly, but your reaction. It didn't matter who it came from, it was the response I assumed would come from scum. So with all that said.

"The day can be over like right now."
Italiano. You publicly told town to eliminate you. As a townie, I DID THINK ABOUT IT LOGICALLY. Didn't you read my paragraph stating clearly the reasoning why you are scum?
From my perspective, voting for you would get rid of what I believe to me the last remaining scum. From a partnership analysis perspective outlined in 3 of my previous posts, I believe you to be scum. From a PoE perspective, you are scum. From Porkens' (town) perspective and the interactions that stemmed from it, you look like scum a LOT to me. Why would any townie self-vote?

Isn't town's win condition to eliminate the scum? I don't understand why that is a scum response.

[shellyc]

It's Minimegabyte by the way. Book it.

1. So you decide to forgo the death pact?
2. Didn't you state before your preferred lynchpool was Porkens / Redados on d2? Why MiniMegabyte all of a sudden?

[shellyc]

You also seem to forget the gamestate. As the second piece of a death pact, I want to honor my commitment. Again I have nothing to hide and if my elimination gets scum then I have no issue with it. Something you will eventually know about me the more games we play together or more games you read is that I am okay with getting eliminated IF and the keyword is IF it makes sense. You may see it in the games you read from WeBL that regardless of my alignment I will more often than not accept my fate without fighting IF it makes sense and I feel that my team can win. If my team can’t win, I will still accept my fate as no amount of fighting will change it. In this case I feel that even with my elimination town can still win. What scum would say that? Come on.

If you decide to uphold the death pact, why would you stop its execution, which involves voting you?

[shellyc]

Has nobody posted here for 7 hours

[shellyc]

@Shellyc: you’re right. I don’t know. I can’t give an answer that makes real sense. I let TBone and Red talk me out of it. I will vote for myself again, but no one wants to pull the trigger, so this day will be prolonged and boring again. And maybe my vote on you is wrong, maybe not. I’m kinda lost. I did say I’d be voting for Red, but him not hammering me and being reluctant that I be at L1 made me question and rethink that slot again, which is why I am voting you right now. Mini hasn’t given her thoughts yet. We’re at somewhat of a standstill.

Why is your vote on me even though you think that I'm right?
T-Bone, I insisted to follow the death pact because I want to follow through with Porkens' (town) and Italiano's agreement.
I really want to hear more from MiniMegabyte. They have "distanced" themselves from much of the game.

[shellyc]

1. The death pact is dumb and only helpful to scum.

Why do you say this T-Bone

[shellyc]

MiniMegabyte has not been in many wagons, and wasn't on word. I don't really like that. Elimination is town's way to get rid of scum, and not using it is inherently anti town. I think T-Bone might be right, MiniMegabyte could be the last remaining mafia.

Partnership: MiniMegabyte hasn't really interacted with either Micc or Word321. Micc pushed a wagon on MiniMegabyte, but that could work as bussing, and MiniMegabyte didn't look really good at that point.
PoE: Redados' reluctance to hammer looks townie. Italiano's recent posting seem like a town that is willing to sacrifice themselves. T-Bone's ISO with the crazy Micc attacking doesn't look like a potential partner.

I want to try and push this slot and see what happens.VOTE: MiniMegabyte

[shellyc]

And what is towntold? Scumtold? What is this?

what do you mean?
Towntold = slipped as town, making posts that would only make sense if the poster has a town perspective
Scumtold = slipped as scum, making posts that won't be possible from a town perspective

[shellyc]

I think Italiano seems town-ish here. After reading the games he provided earlier, I can see that the possibility that he is town is high enough. I want MiniMegabyte to respond to my vote and post more content.

[shellyc]

I didn't follow others. I clearly outlined the reasons for voting you. I know T-Bone is also on you, but that doesn't mean I stole or copied his reads.

Being a townie, I want to formulate suspicion and discuss, but due to my lack of experience, I can't come up with too much.

[shellyc]

Tbone I can see being town because otherwise why would they stop a townie elimination? So that tells me that they are town.

1) Did you tmi slip? Italiano isn't confirmed town. "Why would they stop a townie elimination", so you state that T-Bone is trying to stop Italiano's lim. Here you imply that Italiano is town, which may not be true.
2) WIFOM: he is a listmod and very experienced. he knows if he stopped the lim and Italiano is town, he'd look great

[shellyc]

I mean I can see your point of me not being on many wagons. I guess that just because I don’t wanna be told I’m scum for eliminating the wrong person. However if you’re so sure I’m scum then sure go ahead and eliminate me. I’m telling you though if I get eliminated you’ll only have to go into tomorrow cause I won’t flip scum. But I do see your point

"don't wanna be told I'm scum". Town wants to scumhunt. Mafia want to look like town. By saying that you don't want to be told you're scum is a focus on appearance instead of finding the scum. By doing this you are either a) a townie that isn't being helpful or b) scum.

[shellyc]

You said that you've played this game on discord, right?

]

Nah I played in real life and chat room mafia, which is way more fast paced than this

[shellyc]

I'm not sure if it's AI but ShellyC is still sheeping, she sheeped on the Italiano vote today.

I didn't sheep on the Italiano vote, I voted according to the death pact

[shellyc]

Something I now see that Porkens was trying to allude to was the way Shelly sheeps. She writes her reads and thoughts as if she came up with it, but literally says what another person says almost word for word. For me it’s a bit different from the way Mini has done it or may do it. I still stand on the basis that that’s not necessarily alignment indicative, but I will say it’s very weird. Why do you do that Shelly?

Honestly what do you expect from me? Accurately point out the scum with a compelling wall of text on my FIRST GAME on forum mafia?

[shellyc]

On that subject what exactly makes you think I’m scum Shelly? Because right now you could be seen as scum for the same reason I am. However we all know that there is only one scum remaining. We aren’t going to be perfect our first few games but still have fun with it.

- Look at what I said in #1101 and #1102, you scumslipped
- From a PoE perspective, because T-Bone isn't a likely MiccWord partner, Redados' posting feels town to me, and Italiano's willing to sacrifice for town's good.
- I've been talking, listing suspects, and voting, even though what I said might be a little similar to others, because of my inexperience. You've not been very active, and haven't voted, and haven't discussed / engaged much AT ALL.

[shellyc]

I am feeling like Shelly or Mini is the scum. Leaning towards Mini. Voting Shelly.

Didn't Redados just say this MiniMegabyte

[shellyc]

Okay look I will understand if I’m the elimination for today but if I am I wish you all the best for tomorrow

So you are admitting defeat? I feel like town here would definitely try their best to stop their elimination, as if we mislim, tomorrow would be a LimLo situation

[shellyc]

We have exactly 1 more mislim until LimLo, not LimLo yet today

[shellyc]

This is really interesting from Italiano.

#1074:@Shellyc: you’re right. I don’t know. I can’t give an answer that makes real sense. I let TBone and Red talk me out of it (I am town)
#1130: Mini is the vote for today (I am town, Mini is scum)
#1133: Votes me without anything more said (I am scum, Mini is town)

Everyone left is either "Vanilla Town" or "Mafia Goon". How does a roleclaim help you change your vote without anything more said? The illogical voting pattern here is really, anti-town.

[shellyc]

Here I am at E-1. I roleclaimed before. I'm a Vanilla Town. And I'll do anything to stop this elimination. If you eliminate me today, it's LimLo tommorrow, which isn't ideal at all.

Italiano silent voting me is a bad decision at best and mafia at worst. I still believe Mini is the remaining scum. They're apathetic, oblivious and haven't been contributing much. If Mini isn't scum, it's Italiano.

[shellyc]

Can you explain your "best f3" theories? I don't get how scum!me would want you in LimLo.

I'm not sure actually. I was thinking Italiano might be scum after the Porkens eliminate, but their willing to sacrifice makes me want to lean T-Bone scum. I'll do an ISO dive and decide between the two of you after lunch.

The night kill was really weird though. Why would scum kill Redados here?

[shellyc]

So according to T-Bone's NKA, he thinks both of us... are scum. He also hammered Mini. And thought Redados was scum.

[shellyc]

From scum!T-Bone's PoV, he would want Redados in his f3 though. Look at post #1124. I can't decide which of you two are the scum yet, but I'm slightly leaning T-Bone for now.

Italiano, didn't you vote for me yesterday? You first townread me, then said Mini was the vote. But you switched to me, and now leans towards T-Bone. a townie would do anything to vote out their suspect

[shellyc]

So T-Bone you believe I'm the scum?

[shellyc]

My read order was like this after Mini got eliminated: T-Bone -> Redados -> Italiano (though not very certain). I thought Italiano might have been killed
From my PoV, I am 100% sure I am town. By trying to ask me to vote for T-Bone however, might be a scum move trying to find someone to hammer T-Bone. Still, I am inclined to believe Italiano for now. After my ISO dive, I will be fairly sure who the scum is.

[shellyc]

Italiano, you said to not overthink, meaning you want me to vote for T-Bone now?

[shellyc]

Me neither. This is game over.
VOTE: T-Bone

I won't be changing my vote.

[shellyc]

Datisi and I agreed that shelly played a very good scum game.

Thanks! That was my first game and I rolled scum, feels great to win. Good game town, SJR literally pointed out who we were day 1.

[shellyc]

Thanks George for moderating the game for a month!

My plan after the Italiano - Porkens pushing happened was to push both of them, get 2 night kills in between, then f3 with Mini / T-Bone. Well MiniMegabyte got eliminated so Italiano lived.

[shellyc]

Classic Shelly!

I did that on purpose LOL

[shellyc]

Also where is the Mason PT

[shellyc]

The mafia thread had like nothing in it for 3 days lol

[shellyc]

Good game from SJReaver, you picked out both of us and death tunneled me.

If you pushed harder town might actually have won

[shellyc]

It's *shaking* not *shivers*, for your information

[shellyc]

I was happy enough to grab 'hat guy,' however. Little did I know who the true mastermind was.

Lol I wasn't really a "mastermind", I sheeped reads for half the game.

[shellyc]

Thanks again for modding and playing, this first experience was amazing

[shellyc]

It was going to be LimLo.
I didn't consider killing T-Bone. He townread me and I could use it. He also hammered MiniMegabyte, and I could push him for that.
For Italiano, he voted me, creating a slight WIFOM situation. But he townread me for half the game, and I wanted to leave him there since he saw T-Bone as more viable scum than me.
For you, you stated you would sheep T-Bone. But T-Bone scumread you. You would vote me, T-Bone would vote you. I could hammer, but you didn't townread me anyways and might convince T-Bone that I was possible scum with the townread anyways, so I switched to killing you.
It was also an unconventional kill, giving me towncred for not understanding the night kill

[shellyc]

"Mafia member eliminated D1 = 80% of townie victory."

Favourite quote in the masonry lol, we made that 20%