Mini Theme 2155: SIN: This Impurity must be Cleansed!

[Starbuck]

VOTE: NDMath

You're not a

mason

this time, right?

[Starbuck]

Whoa, I had a busy evening and workday today. Catching up shortly.

[Starbuck]

I'm the absolute worst and busier than I thought I'd be. So many apologies. I know I can show that with content and y'all shall have it.

[Starbuck]

Okay, super mega awfully late catch up is now in progress......

This game has weird roles i see.

What do you find weird?

Radical Rat said "something something sayeth

the lord

" which may be a flavor claim to Saintess, etc.

-Dumbass

Why point this out tho lol

Crumbs are there to be picked up on and not outted this early. So I second this question.


There's an awkward back and forth convo about if someone was voted for trolling or not. Dumb & Dumber asked SS to explain and it seems like Joey jumped on D&D for asking SS explain. I think D&D's push for elaboration is great, but I think Joey's quick jump with an assumption of D&D's intentions feels rushed. D&D are asking the questions to better understand. Let the original questions get answered first, then post your follow up. You can clearly see that they didn't end those statements with a period. They ended them with a question mark. Then, something interesting, is that you've got androgy's jump to a vote on Joey, which I think in the moment is understandable, but reading it later on it seems weird on the fact that I got the feeling of him defending androgy and maybe trying to sort SS/SS's thought process.

Then there's this quote:

S_S's thought process with their vote was pretty transparent

I don't care for the assumption here because, again reading it much later, I don't see the transparency either.

as an entrance, voting someone you think is trolling is just as legitimate as voting someone you think is scum. you're overthinking it, which i see as a bit scummy.

I can see the first point, but I disagree with the 2nd. There wasn't much elaboration and I find hypocrisy in the scrutinizing of Joey here and not the same amount in regards to D&D.

Not to mention, at this point, SS still hasn't given an answer to the original question that started this merry-go-round.

Nah, it's not ever clear if SS was talking about you trolling

But who in this game is trolling ... ? like who is he addressing even with that?

And both of these.


Now a vote from D&D on Joey? I think y'all blew up a misunderstanding and it's looking kinda dumb.

Ahh, yay for the other head of D&D and squashing the whole thing.

If they aren't voting them for trolling they voted without explaining their vote which is just as bad

This. Hence, why D&D's initial questions should be answered. Have they been? God, I hope so.

I like Banana's vote here, too.

Why do you think they're trolling?
Or, perhaps said in another way, why are you voting them?

The vote is just to indicate my distaste that they made me legitimately stress about what they said until I decided to ask Dunn if such a thing was possible and he said no.

This is not the climax that I was hoping for.

[Starbuck]

Radical Rat said "something something sayeth

the lord

" which may be a flavor claim to Saintess, etc.

-Dumbass

Okay well I wasn't gonna say it but yes since you mentioned it anyway I thought it could have been a saintess crumb.

I know other folks asked this both before and after this post, but pointing this out is scummy AF.

I just said it was a generic religious crumb, which it well could have been, the saintess thing just also crossed my mind. Even if it wasn't a saintess crumb it was still towny.

Even this isn't smart either. It just doesn't make sense.

I'm sorry for dropping that vote and disappearing but in retrospect I like the discussion it caused.

What did you like about it?

BUT I will say that if I were to crumb Saintess that way it's anti-Town to point it out like that.

+1

I thought the point of crumbs was to leave subtle clues to point at later, and that pointing them out would be kind of against that

Same.

As I continue reading, Jackel seems to be on the same page with me in regards to the trolling conversation.

I’ll make a ketchup post after grocery shopping dinner etc

Did you mean for this to be a pun or.......?

And hai!

[Starbuck]

Not understanding the Porkens votes on Page 8. Can someone explain?

Catboi's attitude to the game in post 181 is shit and i want to vote there now.

What's shit about it?

VOTE: Jackel98
I don't townread you.

Why?


I like NDMath's posts on Page 10.


I'm not liking redtea's 221 in regards to Banana at all. It feels condescending and "if I was in your position, I would have done it THIS way." I appreciate the elaboration, but I don't like how they went about it.

I'm also onboard with this regarding redtea:

Red’s post are the worse in the game so far; exclusively showing a scum pov, being almost too self-aware, apologetic, not inquisitive by answering for the person hes asking/talking to. He sounds like a monologue and NEE “What’s a joke?” Is more towny to me than red’s 3 last wall. It says a lot

UNVOTE: NDMath
VOTE: redtea

[Starbuck]

What's the lowdown on the Radical Rat/Porkens situation? I think I lost that in the midst of everything.

I felt it was a pretty good climax. Everyone's unsure of whether to trust it and some people are following it out of fear and then I drop a cryptic vote and leave, and then right at the height of the discussion I reveal that I knew it was a bluff all along.

Ahhh, okay. That makes sense.

What do you find weird?

Mostly the: "If you don't use colour tag blue when saying corruption you will gain corruption" nonsense we were lied about.

That's understandable. I thought you might have been referencing the difference of playing a Normal versus a Theme game.

I know other folks asked this both before and after this post, but pointing this out is scummy AF.

but I was not the one who pointed it out

I misquoted, my apologies.

What did you like about it?

arguably it was the major thing that kickstarted non-RVS discussion

True, I can see that now.

What's shit about it?

I've answered this exact question 10 times now.

Just went back to your ISO in another tab. I see it now. I asked as I saw the quote. You could have just pointed me to whatever post, too.

[Starbuck]

Who exactly are you asking to explain my vote?

The people who are voting you on Page 8.

[Starbuck]

[Starbuck]

Well, at least the user name is fitting.

[Starbuck]

I stopped counting how many people have said variations of this.

Banana has said that about quite a few people at this point.

Also, a bit meta. But i’ve seen Jackel98 multiple times online without posting anything in this thread. And they weren’t posting anywhere else, which gives me the feeling they are actively lurking and avoiding to communicate in this thread right now.

Looking at her ISO and current posts through their profile, they haven't posted at all since Friday. If anything, the mod probably needs to give them a prod and/or start the replacement process.

I'm not liking the feel of a policy push here.

[Starbuck]

I think their lack of participation sucks, too, but when you bring an outside the game element into it, that's where I have a problem.

They haven't posted anywhere on site since Friday. That's a fact. I would, instead, call on the mod to prod or replace because it seems Jackal might not have the time.

[Starbuck]

That's a fact. I would, instead, call on the mod to prod or replace because it seems Jackal might not have the time.

How do you know they don't have the time?

Did you miss the "it seems?" Or are you trying to be purposefully weird?

When someone hasn't posted anywhere since Friday and it's now Tuesday, that to me seems like they don't have the time.

[Starbuck]

Oh, you must think I'm in a PT with them or something and trying to entrap me.

How lame.

[Starbuck]

I think their lack of participation sucks, too, but when you bring an outside the game element into it, that's where I have a problem.

They haven't posted anywhere on site since Friday. That's a fact. I would, instead, call on the mod to prod or replace because it seems Jackal might not have the time.

If not Jackel then who? Has your read on redtea changed at all from their latest posts? I don't see them as a better lynch alternative at this time

@Starbuck, hoping you answer this

Oh, apologies. I missed it.

In regards to Jackal, I'm concerned about the lack of patience for a returning player because I just recently returned myself and faced something similar in my first game back. So I find the push there to be a bit opportunistic and taking advantage of a situation where there is someone who is clearly rusty and might need some time to settle in.

My redtea read hasn't changed. I do see them as a good alternative. NEE is creeping that direction for me, as well, given the above in regards to Jackal.

[Starbuck]

Ahhh, and that post above is exactly why I think Jackal needed some breathing room.

[Starbuck]

Busy last day or so. Reading through in a bit.

[Starbuck]

It's been a weird few days. Anyways....

The more I'm reading from redtea, the less I like my vote of him

UNVOTE:

Also I agree with my other head's read on NDMath - he feels like he's talking around the game without really interfacing with it

I was townreading ND, when he was scum, in Weakest Link. I'm hoping the same isn't happening here for me.

The thing about Starbuck that I like is that they pointed out the policy-feel type push on Jackel. Jackel had like 4 posts for the majority of the game. I still don't see how anyone got a scum read on those 4 posts, even on the surface level. From a POE level, sure.

This is where I was at with that, too. I have a hard time trusting anyone who says they scumread someone off less than 5 posts in the game. The opportunism behind it is strong.

im actually not sold on the jackel vote. her ISO is sparse yes but like, doesn't scream scum to me? is there a case someone can point me to? i like the NDMath vote a lot better.

I'm feeling this, as well. She feels.....lost? Is that the right word? I'm not sure. As I'm reading ND feels more viable.

Honestly, if anything, nahdia is showing scum pov while reading bell in 541. Basically, she townreads bell for not acting in a way she would expect mafia to play in this game's context. Thats scum pov

I don't feel anything spectacular about his 7 posts, thus far. The jumping the gun from Nahdia is concerning. Good post.

[Starbuck]

@Joey It clearly says "he" as the preferred pronoun for Bell. You're using "she" to describe them because I think you're looking at their av and assuming. Just wanted to point that out.

I really don't have any fresh perspectives besides being first vote on redtea, because my reads line up with 'town consensus' a lot right now.

Such as?

im really not worried with how anyone us reading our slot this game, actually. so think what you want.

Why not? if youre softing PR just for the sake of this argument its petty/scummy

Agreed. That's a weird statement.

they're generating content that doesn't feel like just treading water.

Still, though, 5 one-to-two liners doesn't equate to "generating content." I mean, I've replaced into games and have gotten told that I haven't done enough when I post more than 1 or 2 lines and really work on being thorough and understanding the game state. I think you're giving praise over something that isn't really praiseworthy, and I'm not quite sure why that's happening.

starbuck is more of a PoE thing but the redtea votes are starting to have a hint of opportunism to them

The more that redtea has posted (as I'm reading and catching up), the less confident that I'm feeling in him as scum. I'm willing to stick him back towards my null pile for now.



Also, I typically hate meta talk because it just ends up being a huge rabbit hole, but I appreciate the simple/to the point questions getting answered without it taking away from the game state.

I can think someone is town while also hating their reads and how obtusely and self-assuredly they word everything.

+1. I agree with this. You can separate the difference between someone's tone/whether or not they are genuine from what could be considered shitty reads.

I normally struggle to get a good scum read, and am very prone to mislynch because I'm prone to tunnel onto things

+1. I know this pain.

I know it’s an unpopular proposition in this game and on mafiascum in general, but flipping a low activity player like porkens who hasn’t been mentionned can actually gives a lot of associative infos.

If we were like Day 3 or 4, without other options, I could see pushing this. Day 1, it's policy/opportunism at his finest, especially with being V/LA. I just don't like this tactic and find it pretty scummy.

Also, wouldn't it be hard to tell who actively avoided Porkens and who just forgot that they existed?

I actually forgot he was here.

[Starbuck]

@Starbuck, you're saying that you're town reading NDMath and that the last time you town read him he was mafia?

Yes, in Weakest Link, he had me hook, line, and sinker. I had a great case about how town he was and everything. He and Dunnstral claimed masons and were scum the whole time. I've never felt so betrayed.

[Starbuck]

I'm a willing hammer because I think he might be pulling wool over my eyes again.

[Starbuck]

Why are you town reading him?

I'm not necessarily town reading him here because I'm trying to figure out if he's doing the same thing that he did in Weakest Link. His ISO there is like 20 posts long and I should go take a look back.

[Starbuck]

So now that Jackal has posted a bit more, have feelings changed there for those who were pushing that wagon?

[Starbuck]

I still think policy is opportunistic and am not a fan of this recent push by Joey. Again, you can just go to Porkens site profile and see he's been a bit absent the past few days.

Not sure when he turned it on within his profile, though. I do know that the banner was on his profile last night as I was catching up.

[Starbuck]

Whats the vote count? Is NDMath at E-2 or E-1?

Banana, if you had a vote, where would it be and why?

[Starbuck]

How is that significantly different from you voting redtea after 7 posts from him?

I couldn't see anything in the Jackal case, partly because there was so much that was being said for them and words being put in their mouth in their absence. In regards to redtea, I voted him based on his condescension towards Banana and to put some pressure on him to give some real opinions. It seemed to work and I'm satisfied with the result. Hence, my unvote.

Yeah they cut that out of my original post lol

I read it, but was trying to save from requoting that whole big block because that's annoying. Didn't mean to miss that line.

[Starbuck]

I'm still unsure how I feel about ND, but our deadline is coming close. Some of my town reads are scum reading him, so I'll trust their judgment.

VOTE: NDMath

[Starbuck]

He already claimed VT.

[Starbuck]

Wow, you didn’t even let him claim.

This is weird. You clearly already said above (as did I) that ND claimed, so why are you mad at Banana (if his hammer is even real)?

[Starbuck]

Thread opened on the overnight. Catching up in a bit.

[Starbuck]

Sorry guys, my last few days haven't been the greatest and y'all added 10 pages. I've been working on catching up a bit today, so I'm hoping to be all caught up by tomorrow.

Day 2 Start to Page 39

I got a tasty fruit and am a tree and can vote now

Oh yay.

I would imagine that at least one of them came from some entity other than the scumteam tho

This was my thought.

Joey had a pretty good hard on for Porky at the end there. Would scum Porky draw more attention to themselves by killing Joey like that?

Or scum hoping to frame Pork or folks who just wanted a chance to distance?

That reads list is interesting, but if you think about it. All the lower level people were people he was directly pressuring at the start or were the least active players.
In fact it almost perfectly matches up with the activity overview.

That's an interesting point.

Honestly, with the Joey kill, I'd think it'd be better to look at his townreads in this case.

That's probably the better place to start.

I thought, "Wow, this girl needs a sarcasm radar"

I thought, given that you replaced in, that you missed the claim. So no, it's not that I need sarcasm radar, it's that you need better jokes.

The question is, did Joey die because their scumreads are correct or because they’re a bit wrong and it’s WIFOM.

This is where I'm at.

VOTE: Starbuck
To go along with my starbucks coffe.

I didn't choose my username based off the coffee company. Buncha non-pop culture educated heathens around here.

No, it’s definitely a saintass.

And with S_S landing the role, that's a lot of alliteration.

Saying me/Joey were a likely scum because they are seemingly "acting in co-ordination" sounds like shit scum would say or some really stupid town.

Given Joey's flip, you seem to be riding that for all it's worth. "Joey was town, so I obvi can't be scum, guys!"

[Starbuck]

I feel like I've just been in perpetual catch up mode since this Day started and now it looks like I'm at E-2? Sigh.

I wanted to finish catching up and do some ISO reading, is there a point when there's such opportunism?

[Starbuck]

In any case, I'll finish my catch up and then get to you all.

So while I've been having a ridiculous week (lots of work stuff and my fam in CT got hit hard with Isaias) and been all over, I'm just one person. Androgybee is a hydra, with two people, that didn't post on Day 2 until Page 39? Huh. Might be some PoE to look at there.

I think Starbuck has a lot of posts that feel NAI or is just her agreeing with or other light comments on other peoples posts.
Like she is playing this game from a spectator or back seat position which I think is scum indicative.

Or IRL has smashed her in the face and she's doing her best to keep up. Where have you been until now?

I keep the site open in the bg sometimes so it stays in mind. Either I'm giving it time for people to respond/I'm busy/probably the first then the second, if I'm on for a while with no posts.

Yeah, the whole stalking someone's login in the lobby or whatever is pretty gross.

Jackel, Starbucks. Are you two even playing the game?

Not if folks keep adding an "S" to the end of my name.

I'm applying ellitell to Starbuck at this point.

She's actively posting elsewhere on site since the day started, but hasn't posted anything here other than a vague 'I'll catch up soon' post

- Dumber

Y'all added more pages which has made things a bit more difficult here. I'd like to get out of an IIOA kind of catch up and be able to do some ISO reading to collate my thoughts, but it doesn't seem like y'all are going to give me that option. I've been feeling a bit lost in this game, so obviously it's showing.

I'd like it if Jackel could explain why they're online but not posting, because right now all i can think of is 2 possiblities:
1: They fell asleep on their keyboard and left their laptop on MS.
2: They've been only posting in a scum PT.

Yeah, this is gross and near policy style bullshit. Do you have some game-related to ask her? Because all this push on folks with lower-activity is opportunistic and yes, I do typically have better activity, but this has been a weird week. I'm not exactly V/LA so I don't like to use it, but maybe I should have.

She has posted only once today, and her way of posting is very much short bites of opinions on a lot of things in succession, but rarely directly trying to engage with others that haven't engaged with her first.

Well, yeah, because I've been in near constant catch up mode and I haven't actually seen much that was directed to me. If I missed something, I welcome whomever to point it out but there didn't seem to be anyone talking

TO

me, more like people talking

ABOUT

me. That's what's concerning me.

[Starbuck]

I'll talk to you Starbuck

Who do you see as being opportunistic right now?

NEE and Bell.

One or both of the heads of D&D have played with me before, so I can't disagree with their read. I am more normally involved and caught up. I just kinda got blindsided with a big work project and trying to figure out what's happening in CT in regards to Isaias (my entire fam is up there and they are talking about weeks without power possibly - most of them are in the age range to be Seniors). So yeah, I've been distracted.

It bothers me that there have been a penchant for policy style pushes within this game and players. I mean, even down to stalking login times on the front page? It's gross. Just because someone is low activity doesn't automatically make them scum, especially when they are trying to make an effort.

I'm also concerned that Jackal jumped aboard that because I try to think the best of folks when there are longer than usual absences, which is why I stood up for her when folks went after her for the same thing yesterday. I also think androgybee's late entrance to Day 2 and shade of me (when they haven't even tried to be around) is hypocritical.

[Starbuck]

At least half of the players in this game are barely even playing

It really doesn't help solving things

Exactly, so that's why I don't get this push for policy or low activity.

I apologize for adding to it, though.

[Starbuck]

So I'm here, let's talk, let's work on it. If you wan to ISO fine, I'll give you some space and some time to do it

I appreciate this. I'll wrap up my work day and hop on a few.

[Starbuck]

Goodness, for folks complaining about inactivity, y'all add a lot of pages. Activity Overview has Banana closing in on 300 posts in Day 2 and NEE at 205. Are you a Auro alt or something? JFC.


Anyways, I wanted to start my ISO read with androgybee. Now having played with both heads separately, I'm not sure if they are having a hard time with cohesion or maybe both beeboy and Nahdia overextended themselves, but I've been having a hard time finding anything town about their slot. I haven't been able to put it into words, so I figured an ISO dive would be the best way to sort them.

From the start with that "hard claim" about needing to format "Corruption" in a certain way, things just have felt off to me. I know it was a gambit/reaction test, but I don't think it garnered much of anything other than be a distraction in a mechanic-heavy game. It was so over the top that it wasn't really believable and just kinda went against what I've seen of a town!beeboy. Finding a means to distract is more anti-town than pro-town in my book.

I touched on everything involved in the "trolling" conversation in my 295. Given that Joey is town, reading this over again gives me pause about androgy making a mountain out of a molehill over something pretty insignificant. Finding something small to blow up and twist and turn is usually a scum tactic.

So I intend to weigh in on wagons that actually have some traction right now, but my biggest scumread mid-catchup is NDMath.
228 feels very much like a bullshitted read. and looking through the rest of his ISO it's just reactive and noncommittal.

~Nahdia

This jump out of no where to NDMath concerns me because there's no talk of ND prior to this. ND is generally one of those low activity players that y'all would be complaining about. I think I may have described him as Silent Bob in The Weakest Link game where he doesn't say much, but he means what he says. Given that he has an overall total number of posts in the game over Radicat Rat (who was replaced), I don't understand how someone like ND pops to "biggest scumread."


The reads list in 463 feels like what everyone else had been saying around this time frame and nothing really new being brought to the table, other than the ND push. Then there's the whole thing about Bell "hitting the ground running" that I previously touched on in my 701 and the feeling of being misunderstood. It just doesn't feel genuine with the quick overdefensiveness of calling Joey obtuse and the refusal to clarify when quite a few of us didn't understand where that came from, as Bell hadn't really added much to the game state at this point.

All of that ended with this post

im really not worried with how anyone us reading our slot this game, actually. so think what you want.

Which Joey called them out on and Nahdia's response was "it'll make sense" in 570, but I don't get what was supposed to make sense. And now with Joey NK'd, this doesn't make me feel very confident about androgy!town.

ill also say wrt to jackel, i have no reason to townread the slot but their readlist doesnt look particularly bad for any reason to me and im pretty worried they could be a misexecution. so i'd rather we aim at a slot i actually find scummy (NDMath).

This continued to push of ND, without much to go on, while defending Jackal is quite hypocritical. The subsequent back and forth with Joey regarding ND feels quite forced, as well, and then there's this piece:

bee "doesn't townread her anymore" but agrees with me that it just kind of feels like a misexecution.

I get just being generally null on someone, but I don't understand how these two things can be true: feeling like someone will be a misexecution not townreading them. If you feel like someone will be a misexecution, then you have to be townreading them. This waffley bit is something that threw me off yesterday but being in everending catch up mode has made hard to verbalize.

I also don't like this much either:

I think the value in flipping a very very low activity player is if they end up being scum, there's plenty to read into. If they end up being town it's actually much harder to get anything useful. I would go there if I didn't have players I actively want to see flip.

I'm not sure how much you can read into the posts of a low activity player, regardless of alignment, when they (in the case of ND) only have 11 total posts in the game.


Then their entrance into Day 2 is quite lackluster and I've said it already, but plenty of folks were calling for my head and for Jackal's, but there was seemingly no similar call from the same folks about androgy. So to have a post like this come from them is laughable AF because they just described themselves:

I don't think we are slightly townie.
I think Starbuck has a lot of posts that feel NAI or is just her agreeing with or other light comments on other peoples posts.
Like she is playing this game from a spectator or back seat position which I think is scum indicative.

I feel like she is trying to go under the radar and that means she is likely scum. I am just getting a bad vibe overall.
I also think her handling of crocodilo is a little weird.

~Bee

Now with all of that said: VOTE: androgybee

[Starbuck]

Like Starbuck herself states in 1067 that she's been doing IIOA

I was kinda being sarcastic there to be fair. It's pretty shitty to be working through trying to sort the game and constantly have folks label your posts as IIoA when you're in perpetual catch-up mode because 2 people hold around 500+ posts of the game.

[Starbuck]

Hmmmm......UNVOTE: .

I need to reevaluate.

[Starbuck]

I really am the worst these past few weeks. Sorry, friends. Anyways...

Hmmmm......UNVOTE: .

I need to reevaluate.

Who else you got on your shit list?

androgy has been at the top and NEE, but I've been trusting my town reads on him and trying not to take his abrasiveness as overconfident scum.

I really need to take a deep dive at Porkens because I've played with him as scum before (the Temporal Lich Grand Idea) and as town (Mafia of Revelations) and I've been struggling to get a read on him. Hence, my near silence in regards to him.

Might be my preconceived bias speaking but starbuck's post on androbee looked like "casing for the sake of a case".

How so? I've had issues with their slot since the start.

UNVOTE: NEE
I'm gonna do it
VOTE: BananaCucho

To be fair, and it's something I've been tossing around in my head for a few days, I don't think a Banana 3P is as unplausible as Banana and NEE are trying to make folks believe with how quickly they discredited Jackal after this vote. I'm not sure what Jackal's thinking, but I think Banana is getting the near confirmed town treatment due to being a stump on Day 1 and I'm not sure if that was the best way to go about it.

[Starbuck]

As for me, I'm a Cursed Townie. I gain 1 point of Corruption if I'm not on the elimination wagon at EOD.

[Starbuck]

Treatment of Banana has less to do with him being a stump and more the way he's played where I feel like he's been actively trying to scumhunt and been pretty strong + his attitude today doesn't come off as scummy. If it's lategame I'd maybe re-evaluate but otherwise see no reason to.

At the same time, though, have you look at the Activity Overview? The colossal amount of posts and quite a bit of fluff can also be scum indicative.

[Starbuck]

I'm going to read through on Porkens, but other than that, I don't think my top choice has changed. I think it was convenient that androgy came back immediately after I finished my case and then still won't lay out what the deal is?

[Starbuck]

As for me, I'm a Cursed Townie. I gain 1 point of Corruption if I'm not on the elimination wagon at EOD.

Have to ask: why withhold this information rather than outing it on day 1?

Because that's like asking scum to just hand me corruption instead. So I figured it was better to keep it under wraps.

[Starbuck]

VOTE: androgybee


@Bell - I'm shit at crumbing. You could ISO nearly any game of mine and not find a crumb because it just plain isn't there.

[Starbuck]

Reading through on my lunch break real quick.

On bee's point about bringing up Banana as a possible 3P, I don't think it's scummy to consider every possible angle that we might be up against. It was something I was tossing about in my head for awhile and figured it was pertinent to bring to the table. I figure that I'm probably wrong, but I'd rather bring forth my thoughts than sit on them.

The thing about Porkens claim tho is that scum can have that role, testing them means nothing probably since it doesn't confirm their alignment

This was my thought, as well.

just like, the confidence he's holding himself with. it reminds me a bit of some scum norway ive seen.

I haven't played with him before (I don't think), but this is where my hold up is that I've previously mentioned.



Okay, so I read Bell wrong all this time. That was a fantastic hit on androgy's part and I'm sorry for doubting them. So yeah, big reevaluation time now.

Bee is kinda lowkey mvp here too for killing a player they thought they were saving lmao

No shit, right?

[Starbuck]

I will say that the 3P could also NOT be Banana, but I don't think discrediting the possibility to be particularly helpful.

[Starbuck]

I played with Battle Mage in Lovers mafia open 787. We were both town. He voted me day 1, kept saying i was conf!scum and didn’t care about anyone else. I call him scum along with the actual scum. Then i flip town and the bastard blames me for town losing the game.

Sounds like springlullaby in regards to me in The Weakest Link.

[Starbuck]

Starbuck since you're here, can you talk to me about Bell's flip? Does it change anything in your reads today? I wasn't really sure who you scum read before, I remember you were voting Bee and then said you were gonna dive into Porkens a bit

Bell completely pulled wool over my eyes and now I'm questioning who he read, as well as my own reads.

I feel like just about anyone could be scum at this point. My reads fell to androgy and NEE. I don't feel my case on androgy was as flimsy as they tried to make it seem. Nor do I understand how someone with such a showstopping, town PR makes the mistakes or makes themselves such a distraction. I was talking myself out of NEE given that you and a few others (I think Bell was in that group, too) are/were townreading him. Now, given Bell's flip and redtea's lack of action (while claiming the same role), I think there's merit in looking at the claimed Clerics.

I still don't think a 3P is out of the question.

As for Porkens, I'm glad we have an extension and I hope to get to his ISO later this afternoon or evening.

[Starbuck]

Just caught up some on my lunch break, I didn't have power last night due to the rainstorms in Jax last night. I should have more freedom later this afternoon.

In any case, to NEE, I've pointed out your abrasiveness, too, and just from what I've read today feels not so good in the way that you're going about it.

I think the pressure on Pork is good, but you don't need to add stuff like "you have zero charisma" or be rude. It's just a game at the end of the day.

Pork is reminding me of him at EOD in Mafia of Revelations here, which is now making me hesitate. I just need to do that ISO and sort him better.

[Starbuck]

End of Day 1 into Day 2, I mean, in regards to Mafia of Revelations.

[Starbuck]

@Mod and everyone - V/LA is on because my modem fried during today's storm. I'll be checking via phone but I typically mafia via computer, so bear with me

[Starbuck]

Now that I have a screen and can read....Porkens ISO time!

So I do think I need to give credit where credit is due in regards to Radical Rat as Porkens did call that out in his 174. Given Radical/Bell's flip, Pork's 253 on calling out RR for being over defensive is fair. I appreciate him taking Banana's POV into consideration in 290 and the fact that Corruption can also be on the Negative Utility side of things.

Then there's me asking folks to explain their Porkens votes and his whole confusion about "no one voting him on Page 8." I still don't know what that was all about.

He calls Jackal out as flipbait as early as 910. I was agreeing for awhile on that, but after Day 1 and defending the low-activity folks, including Jackal, I'm not so sure on this anymore. That ISO is next.

This back and forth continues with Norwee, but doesn't feel forced to me. I've been quite frustrated with Norwee, too. So I get it.

[Starbuck]

Hang on before the hammer please. How much time do we have?

[Starbuck]

I hit submit instead of Preview like a noob.

[Starbuck]

This back and forth continues with Norwee, but doesn't feel forced to me. I've been quite frustrated with Norwee, too. So I get it.

Wuh? Why?

Just your general abrasiveness. I've said it already. Brushing it off as "this ain't the Newbie Queue" is pretty rude when I just asked for general conscientiousness.

[Starbuck]

Since that got all effed by me hitting submit, Porkens ISO continued!

I'm not quite sure on his pool of Norwee/Catboi/DD, as most everyone is claiming them as towncore, but I do think there's merit in at least one being scum.

Then there's his claim in 1494 as Beastmaster. The redtea target doesn't make a lot of sense, but Pork didn't engage much on Day 1, so maybe he just rode a hunch? The other concerning part is redtea's claim as Cleric not targeting anyone. Did we ever figure out if he just missed the deadline to submit or didn't target purposefully?

He still tunnels pretty hard on Norwee as we continue on past androgy's suicide.

I do think he has a point with the scummy reactions after that flip in regards to DD & catboi in 1621 and 1624, and further on in 1761 with regards to catboi directing night actions.

Still harping on not voting Jackal, which will move me over to their ISO in a moment.


After going through his ISO, I think I'm still pretty null on Porkens. I've played with him as both town and as scum and I have no frakking idea. I don't think a Porkens elimination would be a bad thing today.

[Starbuck]

Hang on before the hammer please. How much time do we have?

We have 2+ days, sure I will wait for you again Starbuck

UNVOTE:

I'm so sorry. My goal was to have done this all last night and we've had some wicked storms the past few days. My modem was sacrificed to Thor last night.

[Starbuck]

Now, Jackal ISO! Wait, where did the alligator go?


Her opening post isn't a hi or "I'm excited to play," it's pointing out that Banana isn't listed on the VC.

I appreciate her 153 and the calling out of Radical Rat's now non-crumb. I can't remember. Was S_S part of the group calling RR out? I also appreciate her calling out androgy's distraction this early. I'm still wondering why androgy was so anti-town with this.

I like her back and forth with Joey in 161 and 165, while she works to sort him and her case on NEE in 422. She puts a lot of thought in this post and sorts a good chunk of folks.

I think I said it when I read it at that point in the game, but I really love her 641.

I can think someone is town while also hating their reads and how obtusely and self-assuredly they word everything.

I think she handled the whole everyone stalking her profile and looking for her on the login page pretty well. That type of shit is just creepy to begin with.

Just a quick skim through the rest because I need to actually do some work today. I don't think I'm seeing what others are seeing on Jackal. I did read with her claim in mind and she really does come off as someone just trying to figure things out.

[Starbuck]

I'd like her to elaborate on DD when she gets a chance because I've been hung up on that slot, too.

[Starbuck]

I can see Porkens tryna pocket Jackel

This was my thought.

I've tried to see what everyone found so scummy about her, but I just plain don't see it.

[Starbuck]

Yeah, so I'm good with Porkens.

I'd like to be on the wagon and avoid Corruption. I'm currently at 0, so 1 isn't going to hurt if I have to hammer.

[Starbuck]

I mean, I guess it doesn't matter either way. I'd need to be the E-1 vote to wholly avoid right now.

[Starbuck]

I'm good. I'm going to catch a Corruption regardless.

[Starbuck]

Thanks for letting me catch up and all. It's appreciated.

[Starbuck]

Sorry, I was in a meeting with my Executive Director.

VOTE: Porkens

[Starbuck]

Sigh.

[Starbuck]

Busy weekend. Catching up tonight.

[Starbuck]

Alright friends, I'm here, hi.

Also with just 1 death Norwee might have been right about us not having a 3p. Cause Bell and Porkens could have both targeted SS night 1

I was thinking this, too.

Yes, I re-thought the death after the flip - likely explanation is S_S got 1 corruption from using his ability, targeted porkens, and got 1 corruption from somewhere else. Just really bad luck there.

Didn't Bell's flip say something about multiple fruit? That would make a lot more sense than 3P. I should have thought of that before now.

If anyone else got corruption please claim it thanks

1 for not being on the wagon.

I want to review DD today.

Likewise. I was hoping that Jackal would do a good break down there because she seemed to not be so lost on that slot.

[Starbuck]

Starbuck is scum, and is banking on 3P talk today getting me eliminated and so they went for the cleric CC hoping to kill them slowly

No, I just went back to read Bell's role and I think a fruit killed S_S.

Another thing weird to me is how Starbuck didn't negotiate with us to avoid acquiring unnecessary corruption. Inherently, that hurts town, for reasons you described banana.

I was also in the middle of my workday when that happened on Wednesday midday. TMI, but my coworker was being let go because nonprofit budget cuts, I had an emergency meeting with my Executive Director, and it was just chaos work wise while trying to check in to the game after 12 pm. The last few votes, while not needing to be, were rushed right through.

I totally agree that it hurts town, but I think those rushing it through hurt town more. We weren't up against the deadline, there were like 2 days.

She (wrongly) thought the hammer got corruption no matter what, a mistake I made too before realizing it was incorrect. I think it's a mistake more likely to come from a town perspective but eh.

Yes. When I realized that it didn't, I came back to hammer and you beat me by 5 minutes or something with an excuse of "not knowing when I was returning," which was blatantly unfair given that I had been available (finally).

[Starbuck]

Oh look, more IIOA

- Dumber

Oh look, more and more discrediting.

[Starbuck]

I need to do the DD ISO. I'm not sure if I said that in my posts earlier or not.

I'm trying hard not to eyeroll at their 1999. It's rich to just have them discredit me the whole game, then ask for me to appease them. I don't think they've read anything that I've written. Not to mention, deeming everything that I post as IIoA is just lazy, at this point. I bet I could get drunk if I took a shot every time they've used that acronym. And yes, I caught up on what I missed from the thread opening until now but I need to do some ISO work and that's not happening tonight. That'll be a tomorrow thing hopefully. Tuesday is out of the question for me as its the Florida Primary.

[Starbuck]

Okay, ridiculous last few days, but reading up. Sorry friends.

[Starbuck]

I passed the hell out last night. Just reading the last few pages that I missed, so I can make sure I'm on the same page with y'all.

Catboi, I really wish you would chill, dude. You rushed the hammer yesterday because you swore I'd be gone and you're trying to do the same right now.

We have time. Breathe.

[Starbuck]

The interesting thing about Jackel's early train that I noticed on re-read is that there was some talk about her possibly freezing, since it's been a while since her last game. Something else that crossed my mind is maybe her heart wasn't really in it given the team composition? Prism was replaced a few days into the game by Porkens, and Radical Rat was replaced not too far into the game as well. If your scum team isn't talking to you/not around/getting replaced, and you're an early train... yeah the motivation may just not have been there to give the effort this game precisely due to that

I think the plan to yeet Jackal is a good one now. I didn't think it was so good Day 1 partly because she reminded me of myself when I recently returned to the site a few months ago. It took me a second to get back up to speed in The Weakest Link, and I just felt the same arguments being used against me there were being used here. That's why I stood up against those pushing policy then.

Now? I have absolutely no defense of her and I think the scumpool is in her or DD.

I need Starbuck to commit to voting Jackel.

I can commit to Jackal.

VOTE: Jackal

[Starbuck]

I know I've been absent a lot more than I planned, but I'm surprised Jackal wasn't on the replacement list yet.

[Starbuck]

I didn't receive corruption. I agree with you, catboi, on Jackal. I thought she made some great points and I wish she had been around to contribute more.

I literally have nothing going on this week, so I'll be around. Gotta do work stuff, but that's it. I need to gather together my thoughts on D&D.

[Starbuck]

I just can't say the same for Starbuck.

How so? I literally just came back in June.

[Starbuck]

I literally have nothing going on this week, so I'll be around. Gotta do work stuff, but that's it. I need to gather together my thoughts on D&D.

Ya know, for someone who's going to be around this week, you've been remarkably absent

- dumber

Yeah, I didn't at the beginning of the week. I wish I wasn't so gimped by real life shit and random shit popping up the last month or so.

[Starbuck]

her no-showing this day phase is a massive disappointment (regardless of alignment)

Oh, trust me. I hate that I haven't been able to give time like I usually can to games and I hate being a disappointment.

I truly believe that DD is the last scum. I've been trying to find time to sit and write up the case, and I finally have some time to do it this afternoon if you'll bear with me.

[Starbuck]

So starting from the beginning of their ISO, D&D says that anyone with a NU role should claim then. This frame of thinking always bothers me because I feel like giving scum more information is never in the town's best interest. Hence, why I held back from revealing mine.

D&D was a part of that whole "trolling" conversation and I know Joey pushed that pretty hard as a VT, but reading it yet again, it doesn't feel so genuine on DD's part. I don't know how to describe it as anything other than sowing undue chaos, and then acting the hero when D&D's other head comes in to squash it and all their reads change. Like I said it reads differently now than it read at the beginning of the game.

In the midst of that D&D calls out Radical Rat's Saintess crumb. We all know that RR was scum, but I still don't see the positive in calling out any crumb on Day 1. It's there to be caught, yes, but not publicly announced.

They don't mention me until their 322 where they say they scumread me, they get asked why, and say that my content feels forced and unnatural, and has ridden this tunnel the whole game since.

I never liked their stance on Jackal even from Day 1. Just take a look at this:

Was Radical Rat's religious "roleplaying" really so out of character that two (three if counting D&D) people saw it as a flavour crumb, let alone one obvious enough to just out to everyone? Like, I'll trust you guys if that's the case, but I thought the point of crumbs was to leave subtle clues to point at later, and that pointing them out would be kind of against that.

I don't know how to read androgybee's fakeclaim, if it's AI at all. I guess it could be a way to see if a PR would out themselves, but that's a stretch tbh. Like, gutwise, trolling/muddying the water seems anti-town, since we'd be operating on false assumptions about how corruption works until they either out themselves or get eliminated, but I can't find scum motivation beyond just misinformation.

Joey_, why did you immediately believe their claim, yet you questioned D&D on why they thought SS was voting androgybee for trolling? You did say overthinking is your brand.

I don't love this post, for a few reasons:
a) The first bit feels like they're trying to undermine the townreads on Radical Rat
b) the second paragraph feels like scum who doesn't know how to react to a town!androgybee's fakeclaim

(Me disliking this post is a large part of why my other head voted for Jackel)

- Dumber

The discrediting of Jackal in all regards here, in hopes to push that elimination, is pretty clear. Also, I don't see how Jackal's reaction to androgy is anything less than town, especially when D&D themselves admits in 339 that they don't even know where to put androgy between their Town and Scum reads. It's scummy AF to vote someone for doing exactly what you are already doing.

And as we go further down through their posts in the 380s, they say they lost any semblance of a townread they had on androgy partly because they dislike their take on Jackal. It's such an odd stance to take.

[Starbuck]

I hit submit instead of preview, in any case, continued:

And as we go further down through their posts in the 380s, they say they lost any semblance of a townread they had on androgy partly because they dislike their take on Jackal. It's such an odd stance to take.

They think that "a lot of AI material was produced" as a result of androgy's claim but they aren't sure why they made the claim or what they were trying to get out of it. Nor do they agree with the feeling that androgy is unenthused after their gambit got shut down. This feels extremely rolefishy to me now, given androgy's flip. Not to mention, it seems like in almost every game that I've played with beeboy since returning to the site, he has some sort of gambit to start off the Day. I don't blame anyone who is skeptical of him, but I do think this was a rolefishy stance given D&D's earlier request of NU's to claim.

Then we get down into 436 with more discrediting of Jackal/finding them actively scummy and the fact that they think someone/Jackal can't have a townread on someone/Joey who has different scumreads than them. Hell, it has happened to me and I've given my townreads benefit of the doubt when I've been apprehensive.

There's also the weird scumread of NDmath who they barely mention and then vote, but then swap back to Jackal then flip over to SS. I was going to make a point about them wanting an elimination, any elimination, and then I scroll down to this.

So much talk. C'mon guys, let's put someone at L-1.

-Dumbass

There's quite a number of vote flips before the end of Day 1 when they finally settle on NDMath.

[Starbuck]

Day 2/Pre-Androgy martyrdom:

They want to start with me or Jackal for the vote. Let's remember, that D&D mentioned me all of twice (I think) on Day 1.

They say:

I'm also not super thrilled with the compromise wagon on ndmath yesterday, and would bet multiple scumz on wagon

But they said they were scumreading him earlier in the Day 1 and then never mentioned him again. This particular statement feels doesn't feel so great from the push they gave of him and then didn't shoulder any responsibility on that front.

I can't remember who tried to shade me for bringing up a possible 3P in regards to Banana (I was obviously wrong), but I wasn't the only one who was thinking this or who originally brought it up. This is in regards to the 2 NKs on N1:

I would imagine that at least one of them came from some entity other than the scumteam tho

They reiterate that they still think Jackal and I are scummy, even though they barely said anything about me and vote scum!Porkens in 803. Banana asks for elaboration in regards to me and D&D gets on the IIoA pony that they've ridden all game since then. What bothers me about this is that D&D never actually gathers a real case on me. They just keep playing the "what about Starbuck?' card to the point that they are still doing it now.

I feel as though this back and forth with Porkens as we continue through the 900s to be distancing. Also, the continual "I'd also switch to Starbuck" comments are just lazy. They say nothing about what I've done in this game still. Given how much they hopped around on Day 1 and their continual policy pushes, they don't have a leg to stand on even at this point.

This reminds me that D&D was the first to bring up the idea of a mass claim in 993 and 996. Given how rolefishy they were acting on Day 1 (which I wish I caught much earlier), this doesn't come as a surprise that they'd push for the mass claim.

They, then, vote me in 1035 because I was catching up in another (much shorter game at the time) before conquering this one. Yet again, still not creating a case based on this game and then when I finally start getting through some catch up, they still ride the IIoA pony in 1043 and 1053. This continues down where they decide that I'm not being genuine when I'm coming back to a ton more pages each time. I don't know if y'all looked at the damn Activity Overview, but it was insane there for awhile. Even looking at it right now, Banana has a total of 620 posts in this game before he died. Norwee was closing in on 400. There was a lot of fluffposting going on that was making it difficult for me to catch up. Not to mention feeling pretty downtrodden when coming across posts like

Why are we not wagoning star again ?????????

Despite how this is being portrayed by several different people, this is not just an activity based pushed, and I do not understand why wagoning her is so hard

- Dumber

I'm really glad that there were those who stood up for me because once I got through reading, I felt like I had a better sense of the game, but I also wanted to not only add to the conversations that I missed but to have them in perpetuity/in my ISO had I made it this far in the game.

Additionally, a comment like this (and the rest of 1193 for that matter) really brings major scumpings:

I think the fact that it's so impossible to wagon her, and that there's so much resistance to it, is scum-indicative as well

I don't understand why I'm responsible for the actions (or in this case, nonaction) of the other players in the game. How in the hell is that at all AI or have anything to do with your feelings about why I'm scummy and not your feelings in regard to the other players?

After this post, D&D asks Banana, Cat, and Bell to vote me in 1194 and tries to maneuver the vote off Porkens after scumreading him earlier during Day 2. The conversation turns back to the massclaim and they ask yet another rolefishy question of the claimed Clerics in 1461. They even continue down that nothing about the massclaim changes their view of me or Porkens, even though they seemed to drop their willingness about Porkens. There's a lot more posts about wagoning me and "how about Starbuck?"

Another interesting note, that really didn't fit in with the tangent above, is that D&D considered Bell as town from when they replaced in and still after Bell claimed to be the fruit vendor in 1087, where this reaction after Bell's death makes absolutely no sense given their town read of Bell the whole time before:

i was right thinking a compulsive fruit vendor that hands out corruption is scum

[Starbuck]

VOTE: Dumb & Dumber

Getting this done because I know who needs to be eliminated today for our town to win.

[Starbuck]

I wish real life wasn't so overwhelming during this game and I could be here more.

[Starbuck]

VOTE: Dumb and Dumber

There's no one else.

[Starbuck]

@banana: it wasn't spam, and there was a sufficient amount of analysis explaining why it was star: this game literally fits the exact pattern of her scum mo
and i told you that like two game phases ago

the fact that you didn't want to listen doesn't mean that the analysis or explanation wasn't there

This is severely unfair because I did have a lot of real-life stuff going on and would have been here more if not for that. You just got lucky with the fact that my obligations worked in your favor. You still didn't make any kind of case in regards to this game, which is why you didn't get an elim on me until this very last moment.

[Starbuck]

@Bell in Dead Thread - the TV Head character from a comic that you're thinking of is Prince Robot in Saga

[Starbuck]

How much desperation is there in the scum PT?

None really. I've been by myself for awhile so it's really just the actions.

[Starbuck]

Not really. It's still outside the game bullshit. They never pulled an in-game case together on me and could have rallied all of you around it had they done so.

[Starbuck]

I wished I could have been here more. It's just working/paying my bills/staying above the redline was more important. I full on meant to be around more during that No Lynch day and then work dropped a bunch of shit in my lap. It's just the way of the beast in nonprofit life right now.

[Starbuck]

even when i lose im winning.

It was a brilliant shot.