Mini Theme 2155: SIN: This Impurity must be Cleansed!

[catboi]

ﾉ◕ヮ◕)ﾉ:･ﾟ KAWAII WAVE!!:„ø¤º°¨ ¨°º¤KEEP THE KAWAII GOING ¸„ø¤º°¨ ¨°º¤øº LETS GO KAWAII !¤¤º°¨¨°º¤øº¤ø„¸¸ø¤º°¨„ ø¤º°¨¨°ºL-E-T-S GO!„ø¤º°¨ ¨°º¤LET'S GO KAWAII !¸„ø¤º°¨¨°º¤øºL-E-T-S GO!¤¤º°¨ ¨°¤øº¤ø„¸¸ø¤º°¨LET'S GO KAWAII :„ø¤º°¨¨°º¤KEEP THE WAVE GOING •ᴥ•¸„ø¤º

VOTE: Prism

[catboi]

androgybee is town for keeping the kawaii wave going.

FoS:

Starbuck, Radical Rat, NorwegianboyEE, Dumb and Dumber, BananaCucho, Joey_ for not keeping the kawaii wave going.

[catboi]

Hm, this game has so few pages i keep confusing it for a lackluster scum PT. Post more guys!

What, keep clicking the wrong topic?

VOTE: NorwegianboyEE

Searching for a replacement for Prism

(╥︣﹏᷅╥᷅)

[catboi]

(●ↀωↀ●) something_smart is obvious town for 114.

(๑ↀᆺↀ๑) Porkens is also town for his interpretation of the claim, thinking Radical Rat was trying to avoid getting corruption lowered and being suspicious of it.

(^・ω・^ ) androgybee probably town? Banana town, I guess. Radical Rat probably town for reasons stated in response to claim.


୧(๑•̀ᗝ•́)૭ Mafia: Dumb and Dumber, Norwee, redtea


(ﾉ^ヮ^)ﾉ*:・ﾟ✧ Easy game, people~

[catboi]

I’ll make a ketchup post after grocery shopping dinner etc

Hey Catboi, any reason why you have Double D as mafia? I've liked their interactions and probing

|˄·͈༝·͈˄₎.｡oO Second line in 26 is trying to look town. I don't care for their overall questioning? They just asked smart why he thinks androbee is trolling and argued with Joey. Doesn't come across terribly 'real' or inquisitive. Townpings on norwee are totally inexplicable. Porkens vote bad. They overall come across as fake. Very gut read.

Catboi's attitude to the game in post 181 is shit and i want to vote there now.

┌∩┐(◣_◢)┌∩┐ Oh My God, You Suck

[catboi]

No, I don't think I will~ (⌒▽⌒)☆

[catboi]

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Dumb and Dumber

[catboi]

(●ↀωↀ●) something_smart is obvious town for 114.

(๑ↀᆺↀ๑) Porkens is also town for his interpretation of the claim, thinking Radical Rat was trying to avoid getting corruption lowered and being suspicious of it.

(^・ω・^ ) androgybee probably town? Banana town, I guess. Radical Rat probably town for reasons stated in response to claim.


୧(๑•̀ᗝ•́)૭ Mafia: Dumb and Dumber, Norwee, redtea


(ﾉ^ヮ^)ﾉ*:・ﾟ✧ Easy game, people~

ヾ(・ω・*) i like your reads, though the porkens one doesnt make much sense to me... any thoughts on joey? i feel like theyve still had some of the juiciest content.

~Natdia

( =´∀｀)✎ I think porkens expressing distrust of radical rat comes from a place of genuine belief that they were trying not to lower their corruption levels. It's a town thought process that goes "maybe they are scum who want corruption". Joey_ honestly does not leave much of an impression on me. Even going through his ISO, I'm not struck by whatever you see as

juicy~

. I don't think your early read on him is unreasonable as he definitely hasn't done anything towny but mostly his posts are just "meh".

@Catboi
You expressed disliking of Dumb & Dumber giving me townpings. Then you put both me and him as scum. Does that mean you considered us to have partner equity? Because that seems like a very surface level read. Can you explain your scumread on me further in case i misunderstood you here?

(⌯͒ᵕɪᵕ⌯͒)zzZ My post was never intended as a comprehensive solve, just a list of "here are some people whose posts have bothered me". Indeed, if I tried to fit together a comprehensive picture them townreading you would make you less likely to be partners. Your posts had mostly been jokey and fillery and I didn't care for that.

[catboi]

@catboi what do you think of your own ISO, objectively ?

(・_・ヾ I don't care. Why would I? If someone has a problem with my posts I can answer for it, but I'm not playing for optics right now.

[catboi]

My post was never intended as a comprehensive solve,

Actually. You did specifically say: "EASY GAME PEOPLE LELELELE" which made me believe that was your final game solve.

(,,Ծ‸Ծ,, ) And you took a page 8 post as a serious gamesolve because...?

[catboi]

Because i just played a game with someone that fucking hard tunneled me from page 2 and literally called me/another guy the scum team and i had to fight their bone headed tunnel for 10 pages before i got lynched and flipped town. Sorry if you're different, i get kind of twitchy when i see myself included in scum reads early.

(ↀДↀ)✧ I have been known to tunnel, but I lost all appetite for voting you in your responses to me.

╰(　´◔　ω　◔ `)╯ The vote of Jackel in 219 is an excellent one.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Jackel98

I had originally drafted this post with a vote for redtea, but I decided while writing it I liked jackel's content less. Her posts have look like empty questioning. redtea is still a good vote, however.

[catboi]

|˄·͈༝·͈˄₎.｡oO Second line in 26 is trying to look town.

Go on ...

- Dumber

=^._.^= ∫ if I had more I'd say it but I'm not interested in pursuing that right now

[catboi]

I think it's maaaybe a townie tinfoil thing to be suspicious of the voteless player, but it's not a strong read.

[catboi]

(⌯⊙⍛⊙) It's not a policy push, it's based on their posts being kind of...empty + kinda-sorta having several other people as town

[catboi]

I mean, it is possible she's frozen...which might not be alignment-indicative given it's her first game in 3 years. Bleh. But I'll wait to see what happens. If she flakes, I'll move.

[catboi]

That is a post

[catboi]

Nullscum maybe?
I'm not sure exactly where to put them, but I just wanted to make it known since I'm seeing a lot of people saying they're townreading him.
I'm also not sure exactly how to quantify this read beyond 'feels a lot more passive than I would expect from him as town'
(But I also feel a little awkward using this as reasoning as I'm a secret hydra and he doesn't know who he's talking to, etc, but that really is what it boils down to. IDK. Feels a bit strange to push on that reasoning tho)

~(=^‥^)_旦~ I still like my gut townread on him but he's in the category of "need to see more" along with androbee.

I have been townread by littlerally all my S pool, including two who disagree with a read I said I was 100% on (NEE’s). I am aware a confidence in my alignement doesn’t translate in a confidence in the accuracy of my reads, but neither of them (and no one for that matter) engaged with my posts calling NEE claimed town

(Ф∀Ф) What's your thinking on this behavior by them? Feels likely it could be coming from scum who are afraid to push back - sometimes scum players can't help but see the towniness in the person accusing them and can't help but feel they'll lose if they make it a fight.

[catboi]

2 unviversal trs and 2 somewhat universal srs is bad

Many slots in this game haven't really given a strong impression to me either way, it wouldn't surprise me if there were multiple scum in the null slots. But that doesn't stop me from thinking a red flip on Jackel, would help me solidify my TR on multiple players.

(・∀・) Yeah the thing is it's been a lot of activity from a handful of people (joey, norwee, and banana, who are town, and D+D who I do not have a solid townread on but am willing to wait and see there), and basically crickets from half the game. I don't take that to mean something is way, way off more than that there's a lot of people there aren't strong reads on yet. I would echo the sentiment that redtea is probably not my #1 preference for a vote today, with jackel, ndmath, and starbuck being names I'd place above them on the PoE.

[catboi]

ヽ(^‥^=ゞ) I think they're both fine votes and at some point people are going to have to summon up their courage and vote a lurker. I think either vote is fine, on a review of NDMath I don't like his posts either. Really don't like the reasoning for his redtea vote.

[catboi]

?(ﾉ)・´ω・(ヾ) I was about to ask how agreeing with a popular townread is "making waves" but you beat me to it. I don't think Bell's posts are particularly bad in and of themselves, though.

[catboi]

ლ(∘◕‵ƹ′◕ლ) That's not a hard thing to do or a towntell? Would be the easiest thing in the world to do to appear proactive. Come on.

[catboi]

Nah, i read is has NEE sr game is abysmal and just by being town and saying words, he'salready more towny than when he's mafia
(FTR I don't think NEE's s game is abysmal, I just read it like that)

(=^‥^=) That is what Bell's saying. I think he has reasons for doing so.

[catboi]

Joey, why do you hate being town read and not being interacted with if you post like that and have a cat avatar.

''Post like that''? I think my content is easily engage-able, i kinda can't help it though. My main site is a chat mafia; so I am used to react to everything and post a shit ton

I dislike being tred because it makes everything harder.

Is everyone secretly from EM or what

[catboi]

V(=^･ω･^=)v I'll vote where we can get traction among jackel/NDMath/Starbuck. Porkens is not a

bad

vote but has more the policy feel of yeeting a useless player. Bell is acting strange but not necessarily inherently scummy and would like to believe as mafia they come up with a better justification for the redtea vote than "nullread". With 2 days left we should be pushing someone for a claim.

[catboi]

V(=^･ω･^=)v I'll vote where we can get traction among jackel/NDMath/Starbuck. Porkens is not a

bad

vote but has more the policy feel of yeeting a useless player. Bell is acting strange but not necessarily inherently scummy and would like to believe as mafia they come up with a better justification for the redtea vote than "nullread". With 2 days left we should be pushing someone for a claim.

Why are you okay with any of those 3?

(＃⌒∇⌒＃)ゞ I think I've expressed this? Have not found anything they've expressed particularly townish whereas I have for others, there were good points against jackel and NDMath with regard to how they were engaging with the thread, starbuck is more of a PoE thing but the redtea votes are starting to have a hint of opportunism to them. Joey makes a decent point about Porkens though I guess.

hmm. Is there a way to isolate certain words and follow the game that way?

For example can I look up the word 'pork' and compare it to the number of times Jackal and Math have been mentioned?

(｡･ω･)ﾉﾞ There's a "search this topic" bar right underneath the topic title at the top of the page.

[catboi]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: NDMath

nyeh

[catboi]

Btw Jackel, you really need to clarify where Joey went wrong in TRing me if i'm supposed to take your read of town!Joey seriously. Do you think Joey is a bad player than is town but cannot read me as well as you can? What are your thoughts regarding this?

I can think someone is town while also hating their reads and how obtusely and self-assuredly they word everything.

໒( ⇀ ‸ ↼ )७ This is probably just scum, right?

[catboi]

(・・;)ゞ what about that post pings you?
~Nahdia

Why?

The single-liner reply lacking any real engagement with the game, only coming in to answer a question at them, it feels very off, like she's playing reactively and not trying to contribute in the way of scumhunting. And I see as I preview edit she has posted again, which makes this statement not as powerful.

I know it’s an unpopular proposition in this game and on mafiascum in general, but flipping a low activity player like porkens who hasn’t been mentionned can actually gives a lot of associative infos.

Porkens was mentionned a few instances in this game by few people, especially when he was being compared to the alligator/red scum pool. I think it would be relatively easy to see all the slots who actively avoided the porkens issue

I think flipping a player without a claim is often one of the surest paths to disaster BUT if we get NDMath to claim and decide we don't want to kill him today I'd consider that move.

[catboi]

(ღ˘⌣˘ღ) I am extremely confident norwee is town based on how he responded to me calling him scum earlier in the game.

[catboi]

No wait that was catboi so I'm back at not understanding. Sorry for triplepost

(＾ω＾ʃƪ) He gave a very emotive response when I pressured him and fought back, his reference to getting hardcore tunneled as town in a prior game I think shows he's town who was annoyed at the possibility of getting mindlessly pushed for multiple games in a row. It's an indigation that comse from wholly believing in his own innocence.

[catboi]

Yes, but it felt legitimate here so I unvoted and your subsequent posts have looked quite town in that you are actively trying to scumhunt and are saying things that make sense. That's a very generic sounding reason but I don't feel like justifying this super hard to jackel. ┐( ˘_˘)┌

[catboi]

NDMath's next post should be a claim.

[catboi]

The thing about Starbuck that I like is that they pointed out the policy-feel type push on Jackel. Jackel had like 4 posts for the majority of the game. I still don't see how anyone got a scum read on those 4 posts, even on the surface level. From a POE level, sure.

This is where I was at with that, too. I have a hard time trusting anyone who says they scumread someone off less than 5 posts in the game. The opportunism behind it is strong.

How is that significantly different from you voting redtea after 7 posts from him?

[catboi]

VOTE: NDMath

-Dumbass

Two more of these.

[catboi]

I'm also not super thrilled with the compromise wagon on ndmath yesterday, and would bet multiple scumz on wagon

- dumber

(Whoops the last post was me too)

I'm trying to remember what forced my hand there. There were a few people dragging feet on jackel.

Note: the S_S kill could also have been a townie with an NK who scumread him

（╬ಠ益ಠ) goddamn terrible shot for town.


VOTE: Starbuck

Want to look in this direction right now.

[catboi]

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Porkens

[catboi]

Hello catboi, how is your day going?

( .. ) Not great, haven't had the energy to put serious thought into this today. Porkens's bluster coming out the gates looks phony though. Need to do a more detailed look at starbuck.

[catboi]

I have a hunch that scum have higher corruption thresholds for dying. Should we all mass claim these thresholds?
We're at 3-7 right now anyway, right? Pre-LyLo. Hm, maybe we should fully mass then?

-Dumbass

I'm somewhat uncertain on this. Thinking on the corruption mechanic, it seems highly possible for a higher number of deaths per night than normal. Based on this I think assuming a traditional role distribution would be a mistake.

How about this: If any town player is responsible for either kill last night,

or

may have raised the corruption levels of one of those players which would have resulted in a kill, they need to do so today, and not hide it for later. If we get no claims then it's multiscum.

[catboi]

@Bell

Give me fruit again tonight. If I die (very likely) I take the corruption with me.

I understand this impulse but we might just want to put corruption on players we find scummy, and either they die or get caught surviving with corruption beyond the regular threshold. Would depend on if there are other potential killing roles in the setup, though.

[catboi]

There's basically 0 reason to vote norwee and the persistence of the push on him by certain players is troubling.

[catboi]

The bothersome thing about Starbuck continually defending low activity players from a "policy push" is that she has this kneejerk response while not having any real alternative. It'd be one thing if she thought this was an attempt to distract from voting someone scummier, but as it is she seems to be assuming the lurkers are inherently innocent and I really don't like that. This also doesn't really square with how she was willing to vote NDMath because "Some of my town reads are scum reading him" - given most of the people on him were active players, it would assume she's not scumreading them, so who is supposed to be left, exactly? (and also, how was NDMath somehow not a policy vote by her standards)

[catboi]

Maybe later.

dude you are the worst except the worst is better than you smh

Heyyyyyyy that name seems familiar, do they still play mafia?

Yep https://forum.mafiascum.net/memberlist. ... le&u=26964

[catboi]

This might be coming to a head.

I still don’t get this post. Is it some kind of gangster slang i’m unfamiliar with?

Common English idiom, don't blame you for not knowing it though. https://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/come+to+a+head
I think redtea is saying the amount of claims might force everyone to out? I'm not sure though. I would oppose further claims

unless

someone openly claims responsibility for the additional kill.

[catboi]

In fact, I'll put it in a new post for emphasis: If there is someone who was responsible or

could

have been responsible for the additional nightkill (via raised corruption), I want them to claim

today

. Otherwise I'm just going to assume it was an SK kill.

[catboi]

Also I'm gonna UNVOTE: because I was wanting for Jackel to get more involved, now she is and her recent posts aren't bad, and NEE is being weird about it.

Σ(´д ` ﾒ) What about jackel's recent posts aren't bad to you?

[catboi]

I agree with Starbuck's reads tbh

Σ(;･益･;;;)!!! What reads?

Not that the first two are ai in any way, but why not go after people who are the last one, or an active or semi-active player, in the meantime? Does their material or lack of not have more validity/basis? Does this not reduce the chances of a miselimination?

( >д<) Okay, but she HASN'T done either of those. It's all been geared at deflecting attention away from certain players.

Personally I'm mostly sold on catboi's idea of vig claiming, since surely we have a proper protector role. Only caveat is they can't protect the widespread townread banana at the same time. What do you think of that, catboi?

Protection is less important than setup clarification at this point and it's not like a vig needs to stay alive, if there is one. (I also absolutely do not trust the judgment of a vig who made one of those kills)

[catboi]

(⌯͒ᵕɪᵕ⌯͒)zzZ Hardly rolefoshing when multiple people have bandied about the idea of massclaiming today, and nonsensical to single that out from me. I'm saying that if the kill is not coming from town, outing roles further than we already have is bad.

[catboi]

（♯▼皿▼）Wait, this is total bullshit, both jackel and starbuck come out saying to look at joey's townreads and yet they're both trying to push norwee, who joey had as obvtown, the do-nothing lurker side of the game is actively trying to rip apart the towncore from day 1, this is very much a deliberate action even if they're not all scum, it's really easy to see what's going on.

[catboi]

（♯▼皿▼）Wait, this is total bullshit, both jackel and starbuck come out saying to look at joey's townreads and yet they're both trying to push norwee, who joey had as obvtown, the do-nothing lurker side of the game is actively trying to rip apart the towncore from day 1, this is very much a deliberate action even if they're not all scum, it's really easy to see what's going on.

They said once (1) it was worth revisiting after the flip. Starbuck has consistently doubted his reads, and we all know Jackel's simultaneous TR on him + not agreeing with his reads.
Jackel went back and didn't gain any useful info from his tr's. I don't think Starbuck has yet. But
This isn't a sudden change of narrative.

Paying lip service to a dead townie while actively working to discredit their reads is scummy, there's no excuse for it. If hey were just stating disagreement it'd be one thing but they both went ut of the way to comment on his townreads and then not ake it into account at all - this is not a genuine thought process of people looking to evaluate his opinions but words of people trying to appear conscientious.

I'll join
VOTE: androgybee do you have any solid "will/won't eliminate today"s? Seems to be a Thing.

What's your justification? Your only mention of them has been them not doing anything while you've been deflecting away from porkens and starbuck for being similarly non-contributive.

[catboi]

2 scum in {Porkens, Starbuck, redtea, jackel}, minimum.

[catboi]

(๑ↀᆺↀ๑)✧ mmm yeah that's a blatant misrep, you're not even trying to read that post honestly. Pretty sure I'm on to something.

[catboi]

No, the bolded is from D1. The only comment on his reads from today is "we should go back and look at it", and Jackel saying she couldn't make anything of Joey's tr's.

I've already stated why Porkens'/Starbuck's lurker states are different than androgybee's.

Yeah, and her takeaway was somehow in the same post "we should look at his townreads" and simultaneously "joey was killed because his reads were a bit off", which aren't compatible, and the second bit is just not a reasonable conclusion to make in any way.

Yes, your deflection and excuse-making for scummy players has been noted. What I see here is you attempting to distract from scumreads on other players which are not purely based on inactivity to one purely based on nothing. It's a thoroughly weak vote and an attempt to create a counterwagon on someone solely for being inactive, and that is a weak case to be pushing right now independent of any of the content of their posts.

[catboi]

（♯▼皿▼）Wait, this is total bullshit, both jackel and starbuck come out saying to look at joey's townreads and yet they're both trying to push norwee, who joey had as obvtown, the do-nothing lurker side of the game is actively trying to rip apart the towncore from day 1, this is very much a deliberate action even if they're not all scum, it's really easy to see what's going on.

When I said that I'd sooner look at Joey's townreads, it was in response to Banana talking about how likely Porkens would be to kill Joey considering Joey's push on them and then posting Joey's readslist. Like, my point was very much that I felt that Joey's obvtown read on Norwee could be a motive, but I have since admitted that this could definitely just be confbias wrt my existing SR of him.

Paying lip service to a dead townie while actively working to discredit their reads is scummy, there's no excuse for it. If hey were just stating disagreement it'd be one thing but they both went ut of the way to comment on his townreads and then not ake it into account at all - this is not a genuine thought process of people looking to evaluate his opinions but words of people trying to appear conscientious.

I made it clear several times that while I hard-townread Joey, I absolutely disagreed with his townreads. I thought it was obvious in context what my intention was with my pointing towards his TRs, considering my past posts. Should I stop disagreeing with a townie just because they flip, since apparently pushing for Norwee now is discrediting Joey?

┌∩┐(ಠ_ಠ)┌∩┐ When does scum kill the people hard townreading them? Hardly ever. This is total scum garbage.

[catboi]

Why are we not wagoning star again ?????????

Despite how this is being portrayed by several different people, this is not just an activity based pushed, and I do not understand why wagoning her is so hard

- Dumber

(๑•ิཬ•ั๑) She's been stalling for time but I'm running out of patience. It's not like it's a terribly hard game to catch up on, I did it in basically no time.

[catboi]

I see no good reason why catboi made that ultimatum.

There are an extremely limited number of people who could claim to have made the extra kill, and I'm not sure a vig fits in the picture with the roles we already know of. I'm concerned the extra kill was not from a town player.

[catboi]

What's y'all's reasoning for not including Jackel in the elimination pool anymore?

Sorry, I try. Helps when I use quotes but sometimes I get a little over-confident with my coherence. Or I'm on mobile, as I am now.

This is my personal pool, I expect everyone to have differing opinions on it

IMO alligator is a player who probably found themselves in a bad spot early and has been trying to turn it around. Day 2 I'm raising the bar and she's meeting the expectation for me. She seems to be putting forth an effort to solve the game. Day 3 we'll raise the bar more.

(ФДФ) I would still have jackel in my POE but would have her at a lower priority than other players. Her recent reasoning is not good but she

might

just be illogically tunneled. Should we get a red flip from starbuck I want her dead though.

[catboi]

Random question but: you seemed to hint at some ability to raise corruption early in the game. Is it possible that you caused the extra kill by targeting S_S last night?

[catboi]

UNVOTE:

Hum.
Catboi in your argument on red tea you mentioned some stuff that I feel could have applied to me as well but you directed it solely toward redtea, why?

Like what, exactly? I haven't noticed you trying to deflect attention away from certain players using flawed reasoning.

[catboi]

(ꀄꀾꀄ) Might be my preconceived bias speaking but starbuck's post on androbee looked like "casing for the sake of a case". Claim aside I didn't feel it was very convincing. Porkens is also not even trying to look town at this point.

[catboi]

(*｀Ω´*) Hot take: Porkens is telling the truth about his role, it's just not town aligned. Track on redtea doesn't make sense from a town POV aligning with his opinions from the previous day but does make sense from a scum rolecop POV.

（=´∇｀=）I think it's not implausible for there to be duplicate versions of roles in the game, and found the way redtea claimed to be fairly believable.

( ^..^)ﾉ I claim vanilla town.

~(=^┬ ┬^) The claims are confirming my fear, which is that the second kill assuredly did not come from town. Given this perspective, I'm actually much more skeptical of androbee's claim now than before. Giving someone corruption immunity seems implausibly strong. I think it needs to be resolved today because otherwise on later days they'll have the excuse that suiciding would cause town to lose. I think one of those two should be the vote today.

VOTE: androgybee

[catboi]

I'm not really sure how, or where, I'm holding up or derailing this wagon. I made it p clear we'd switch to porkens if necessary, but that Star was our first choice.

- Dumber

Why this preference, exactly? I don't get it.

[catboi]

With the claims I'd really bet against any possibility of crosskill. We can get scum or 3p today and either is fine but we have to get the 3p by day 3 (assuming it is a 3p and not some weird multiball situation).

[catboi]

Treatment of Banana has less to do with him being a stump and more the way he's played where I feel like he's been actively trying to scumhunt and been pretty strong + his attitude today doesn't come off as scummy. If it's lategame I'd maybe re-evaluate but otherwise see no reason to.

[catboi]

As for me, I'm a Cursed Townie. I gain 1 point of Corruption if I'm not on the elimination wagon at EOD.

Have to ask: why withhold this information rather than outing it on day 1?

[catboi]

I'm not really interested in voting her today anymore. andybee/porkens or bust.

[catboi]

ive got errands to run in like an hour. i'll suicide before i go unless beeboy yells at me not to. is it worth me reading catboi and redtea's d2? when i flip town, will you listen to anything spicy i may or may not say on them?

Read us if you want. I don't think redtea is that likely to be scum anymore. I don't think porkens's claim makes a difference because I think he's just scum regardless and it doesn't fit with the amount of power already claimed.

[catboi]

also like I said earlier, porkens check on redtea doesn't make any sense from a town POV. Tbh I wouldn't mind just bopping him today although I'm a little worried about the situation the kills will leave us in. (^・ω・^ )

[catboi]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Porkens

meh

[catboi]

Think if anything the dumbs deserve more scrutiny than norwee at this point

[catboi]

...hahahahaha

VOTE: Starbuck

[catboi]

Eh

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Jackel

[catboi]

also porkens is entirely off the table now, oops

[catboi]

Bell was basically indifferent on porkens/starbuck while barely mentioning jackel. That is probably where we should be looking.

The flip also makes multiple cleric roles a LOT more plausible knowing that it was possible for scum to hand out multiple points of corruption per night. Without those things would be very likely to get overwhelming fast.

[catboi]

also porkens is entirely off the table now, oops

I probably won't vote to lynch them today since basically the entire game is blown open rn and need to reread a lot of things, but why entirely off the table?

Like Porkens' scum reads are DD/norwee/catboi

And they were voting Bee

I don't see how a Bell flip completely absolves them

I thought the way they started off sussing radial rat was unlikely to be partners and Bell pushed him in a way that seemed unlike bussing. Idk, at this point I'm willing to let the claim ride and let him give results

[catboi]

Not denying it looks very awkward but given flipped flavor it seems like cleric would be an odd role for scum to have ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[catboi]

@Banana - You received notice of receiving fruit from the moderator, rather than just a corruption increase, correct?

[catboi]

@Banana - You received notice of receiving fruit from the moderator, rather than just a corruption increase, correct?

2 separate notifications. 1 was fruit received, 2nd was corruption increase, yeah

Yeah, then I don't think S_S got fruit, the likely plan was for Bell to try to hide his role by acting like negative utility, handing out a second fruit would have outed him. I think we're still looking at a 3p kill here. Also think multiple clerics makes sense as a safeguard against accumulation of corruption.

[catboi]

One of Bell's last actions was to jump off of Porkens (when they were at 4 votes) onto Starbuck (who had 1). We were getting pretty close to EOD

Note that during this DD also "holds up the wagon" on Porkens as Norwee puts it, but we don't have a flip yet on Porkens/DD so I'm just looking at Bell rn

Spoiler: Bell/Porkens

VC 2.3

Porkens (3): catboi, Bell, redtea
androgybee (2): Porkens, NorwegianboyEE
Starbuck (1): Dumb and Dumber
NorwegianboyEE (1): Jackel98

Not Voting (3): androgybee, BananaCucho, Starbuck

Deadline is in (expired on 2020-08-11 21:00:00)

With 10 players alive, it takes 6 to eliminate

I don't find the doubled cleric claim to be inherently scummy, imo; I think they can both be town

I think that androgybee has managed to claim in just about the scummiest way possible but gun-to-head I'd say they're probably town? But they certainly aren't helping things

I think it's possible that people got corrupted last night but didn't know it - iirc the OP says that people will only be alerted to a *net* corruption change. IE if their corruption gains and losses cancel each other out, they won't be alerted. like a +1 corruption and -1 corruption won't be announced since there's no net change.

So I don't think it's possible to fully track all of the corruption getting passed about.

Nothing about this massclaim has made me want to vote outside of porkens/Star

- Dumber

androgybee (2): Porkens, NorwegianboyEE

EWWW, i'm on the same wagon as Porkens.
VOTE: Porkens

Just Porkens, Catboi and Starbuck left

So far my opinion hasn't really changed from voting one of Starbuck/Porkens today, not really

Tbh, I'm leaning more toward Starbuck than Porkens rn, because I can at least point towards stuff that I find unique in porken's post that could come from town.

VOTE: Starbuck

After that Bell doesn't post much up to their death, and then things become about Bee. Idk, I'm more inclined to think if we had to choose between Starbuck/Porkens I'd still pick Porkens

Oh, I completely did not notice that because initially the VC when the mod locked the thread had Bell still on Porkens, which is why I opened the thread by voting for Starbuck before I skimmed Bell's ISO and changed my mind.

[catboi]

Catboi what’s your read on D/D right now?

Haven't re-evaluated yet but was mildly wary of their insistence on starbuck over other options for most of the day. Will try to look back in a few hours from now.

[catboi]

Lamisty?

"Look At Me I'm So Townie"-y

[catboi]

This is a wacky thought but: it's possible the other demons share a similar condition to Bell of dying at 0 corruption. I think we might want to have both cleric claims double up on their target tonight.

[catboi]

Hah! I fucking called that!

VOTE: norwee

Hey, mind pointing out where you "called that", exactly?

[catboi]

I re-read D+D's ISO and don't have anything concrete to come back with, I had been avoiding fully writing them off as town. Can't point to anything they've said that's bad, no real strong towntells, but there's some okayish attempts at evaluating and a little bit of flip-flopping on bell's claim I actually like because it feels like real evaluation. Gun to head I'd probably just guess they're town. Wouldn't vote them before porkens or jackel but would put them below the strong townreads.

A thing that's bothersome about porkens's claim that no one has brought up is how he has an ability that raises his corruption but apparently had no problem hammering on day 1, it doesn't really seem to hold that he'd be so cavalier about corruption when it potentially reduces the amount of times he could use his ability.

[catboi]

If you did bring it up I missed it, my bad. Still no explanation on the redtea check either. I'm thinking we probably just vote him and have the clerics double up on a target who claims no corruption.

[catboi]

I think we all reversed course on porkens after a re-evaluation, but the way bell was angling for starbuck felt like that was the mislynch he was trying to guide things toward.

[catboi]

This isn't a bad thought, but it would take us 2 nights to kill someone, and if maf have that same corruption eating-ability our attempts could be
fruitless
hehehe

Might be safe to double up on someone anyway, if corruption is what caused the second kill. 'nothing else it's a deterrent. Or if we wanna bank on no more corruption-eaters.

If they have other roles with the ability to steal corruption they'll need to take it from people who already have it, which is a tradeoff I'm fine with

[catboi]

Have the weird feeling jackel might be town from the "i still have 0 corruption" post even though that thing isn't impossible to fake it feels more likely a thing they'd think of as town. but then I have no idea who else could be scum.

[catboi]

Literally the only thing I want is for redtea to catch up and coordinate some night actions, at this point porkens is just actively spouting nonsense to muck things up

[catboi]

This is a wacky thought but: it's possible the other demons share a similar condition to Bell of dying at 0 corruption. I think we might want to have both cleric claims double up on their target tonight.

I re-read D+D's ISO and don't have anything concrete to come back with, I had been avoiding fully writing them off as town. Can't point to anything they've said that's bad, no real strong towntells, but there's some okayish attempts at evaluating and a little bit of flip-flopping on bell's claim I actually like because it feels like real evaluation. Gun to head I'd probably just guess they're town. Wouldn't vote them before porkens or jackel but would put them below the strong townreads.

A thing that's bothersome about porkens's claim that no one has brought up is how he has an ability that raises his corruption but apparently had no problem hammering on day 1, it doesn't really seem to hold that he'd be so cavalier about corruption when it potentially reduces the amount of times he could use his ability.

Have the weird feeling jackel might be town from the "i still have 0 corruption" post even though that thing isn't impossible to fake it feels more likely a thing they'd think of as town. but then I have no idea who else could be scum.

Note the moral flexibility on corruption. Scum/townreads don’t flow logically or naturally from the predicate

I know I probably shouldn't even bother engaging here, but what is this even supposed to mean

[catboi]

Moral relativism of corruption is that you scumread who you want based on fact A and townread who you want based on the same fact A catboi. You are twisting reality to support your desired outcome.

Those are not the same facts, though? you were cavalier toward corruption in a way that doesn't make sense with your role claim, jackel was just sort of open about their level in a way i feel is more likely to come from town.

[catboi]

Post 192 is casting doubts on people's TR's on Radical Rat, which seem less partner equity unless they have been planning to buss each other from the start.

I re-read day 1 and i'm not sure i wanna wagon porkens anymore.
:/

See I saw the same things as you, the problem is there was no progress on that anywhere and he seemed to just drop it when people were showing no interest in Bell and now he's standing up beating his chest trying to take credit for it. It's very unnatural.

[catboi]

I'll move my vote to porkens when there's a new VC, too lazy to count it myself

[catboi]

Lol

[catboi]

It takes 5 to eliminate.
Catboi said they wanted to switch to Porkens wagon. I'm considering it too.
So do you want to be the one to hammer, Catboi?

I don't know, I'll do it if people are okay with me hammering

[catboi]

UNVOTE:

Don't really want anyone but porkens, tbh. Had the thought last night of imagining interactions between a tracker role and the flipped demon and that just seems ridiculous and do not buy it in concert with the saintess as a cop role

[catboi]

I'm good. I'm going to catch a Corruption regardless.

If that's the case then you can take it? seems smarter to reduce the amount being added to the playerlist.

[catboi]

I'm good. I'm going to catch a Corruption regardless.

oh nvm I forgot he's scum so hammer won't get corruption, starbuck get on there

[catboi]

Fine I guess, it's not like we know when Starbuck is going to get back on and there's nothing else to discuss. For what it's worth I think her reactions here are probably actually slipping a town perspective but then I'm kind of left shrugging as to who else is scum.

Reminder: Clerics go on Dumb and Dumber tonight.

VOTE: Porkens

[catboi]

Red flip.

[catboi]

Yes, I re-thought the death after the flip - likely explanation is S_S got 1 corruption from using his ability, targeted porkens, and got 1 corruption from somewhere else. Just really bad luck there.

[catboi]

Also I have no idea who the last scum is

[catboi]

ｍ（＿　＿；；ｍ Yeah, I realize that now, but I couldn't help but tinfoil it b/c my imagination was too limited and didn't see how s_s could've picked up 3 corruption in 1 night.

Σ(`‐ｪ‐´) It would be

weird

if it was just jackel, 3 VTs, even in a theme game seems...too low. But then...I dunno where else to look.

[catboi]

Didnt get to say: I didn't say it was

likely

lol.

I got one corruption!
And fucking Norwee is dead??
...interesting choice

okay so last scum hands out a point, and that probably caused the s_s kill, that clears that up

[catboi]

She (wrongly) thought the hammer got corruption no matter what, a mistake I made too before realizing it was incorrect. I think it's a mistake more likely to come from a town perspective but eh.

[catboi]

We could also be living in a world where mafia has 4 players and today is LYLO

Then it would've been mylo yesterday and yesterday did not play like it was mylo. 10:3 is standard in 13 player games and with the potential for extra kills from corruption 4 players doesn't make sense. We're looking at a single scum left.

[catboi]

I think there's a pretty good reason redtea would be hit with corruption, actually: with norwee dead, he's the only player who can't have their corruption lowered overnight. Prevents any possibility of that person being cured of 1 point. Additionally, anyone else, with 2 corruption on them now, we could just ask them to hammer and remove them from the PoE if if they hammer town and die. This was a very savvy move.

[catboi]

I'll do real reads tomorrow, I want to re-read the thread in light of the flips.

[catboi]

Anyone wanna wear a tin foil hat with me? If DD is mafia, both of Porkens teammates bussed them early, right after they entered the game

I think if you look at Porkens's reaction to those 2 votes though, it speaks to some difference, though? In 253 he simply attacks RR while questioning DD, speaks to a difference in mentality - he's distancing from rat while genuinely trying to appeal to dumb and dumber. He did shade them somewhat later in his ISO, but the game he was playing might've been to just defend his teammates at every step.

*tin foil hatting intensifies*

Catboi, I dunno how I missed this before. But again, it comes off as TMI in relation to the whole Porkens/Radical Rat thing. I had like 0 thoughts about scum wanting more corruption

Show of hands - before Bell's flip, who here thought scum might want corruption? It could just be with the way my role works I just didn't think of that angle

I didn't have any thought about scum wanting corruption but thought it was a legit process from him. It was a bad read (I've had a lot of those lately). It was also a age 9 read.

[catboi]

jackel is simultaneously someone I dread will flip town yet absolutely do not want in a lylo gamestate. They do seem to question joey about voting porkens in 683, give an "i agree but i'll vote elsewhere", refers to porkens as a "mega compromise" in 1107, and that's about it for their read there. Her second post was 153 which was kind of a weird comment on radical rat, basically nothing on bell.

bell and porkens ere also really light on mentions of jackel although that might just be an inactivity thing. porkens repeatedly referred to jackel as "flipbait" but I don't think it's past him to shield a partner that way and hope people out-wifom themselves as thinking it as whiteknighting.

[catboi]

Porkens on Starbuck: listed as "feel town" in 768, says he's "starting to get bad feelings about" her in 1032, but then says he has "no interest in flipping starbuck today" in 1117, continues to go against voting her in 1197 and 1225. Need to cross-reference this with when Bell was trying to get votes on starbuck, but it doesn't quite feel partner-y? He hardly mentions starbuck after the flip.

Bell on Starbuck: he started day 2 off with busing porkens in 791, but seems to pick up on suspicions directed at starbuck in 804 and 837 and says "star’s vagueness is suspicious" in 855, wagon hops in 1063. It is kind of notable that he starts to offer a slight defense of porkens in 1337 and angles toward voting starbuck in 1489 - again it feels like to me if the plan was to bus porkens heading into the day, he'd stick to that, idk. In 1531 he continues to be doubtful of her claim which contrasts a fair deal with how he treated porkens? Just seems like starbuck was much more a misyeet he was trying to switch to from a bus vote.

Okay, so bell's wagon hop coincided with porkens reversing his read on starbuck from "bad feelings" to not wanting to flip her - this feels a lot more like him deciding to stay off a mislynch he judged as likely to happen, rather than avoiding a bus - surely at that point he'd know he was the most likely vote after starbuck and he'd join bell on the vote, the fact he didn't seems more indicative of starbuck as town than anything, else I can't see what the scumteam's plan would be otherwise.

[catboi]

I'd rather just have redtea heal dumb and dumber again if the game doesn't end today and assume they're town if they tank 3 heals given we already had an ascetic redirector flip. Bit of a gamble, but eh.

still looking over starbuck in isolation to get a look at interactions there but I'm being lazy ฅ( ͒ᵕ̳ωᵕ̳ ͒)｡o○

[catboi]

Finnally picking things up:

Starbuck on Bell: not a lot on radical rat, sh expresses suspicion of D+D for talking about their "flavor crumb" early but it's not too meaningful. some questioning in 702/705, then expresses suspicion of a joke bell made in 761. not sure she'd shade a partner like this at the end of a day. calls bell opportunistic for voting her in 1065 and 1071. The reaction on bell post-flip in 1679 and 1703 is a bit weird, since "I read Bell wrong all this time" doesn't really gel with her previous statements, as far as I can tell she never really outed a read there.

Starbuck on Porkens: Says she doesn't understand the votes on him in 306, does her annoying policy/opportunism complaint to defend porkens in 701 and 730, tries to advance the idea the joey kill was an attempt to frame porkens in 1047, says she needs to "deep dive" him in 1521, which doesn't come until a lot later and after bell was flipped. 1812 compares him to a recent town game of his, which I'm not sure I see. Whole ISO in 1885/1896 is pretty meh, and comes out null on him when it was alread pretty well decided he was going to be the day's elimination.

So from this perspective it's not great, there's a lot of stuff here that

could

be incriminating but could just as well be the product of a townie with a not great read. I think the main difference is in how bell/porkens treated her, and her overall reaction to events feels more townish than not, I buy her frustration at me rushing the hammer yesterday as legitimate. I wouldn't vote her today.

[catboi]

Ugh guys I just had a thought. Bell could give out 3 fruit right? 3 points of corruption

I'm the only one to claim getting one

One of them definitely went to the Saintass, causing their death

The 3rd one, if DD is mafia, definitely could have went to them. If their corruption started at 3, and they got a fruit that put them at 4, then Redtea targeting them tonight still isn't clearing

ughhgoijasodffijqpiowjefj;aoskdfmasdf

Wasn't going to out this yet, but read the role again. The fruit only gives corruption to town-aligned players.

(I also think Bell didn't target s_s night 1 - I think the last scumteam member gave out a corruption point, since redtea claims to have gotten one last night, and that's what killed s_s. I think bell was trying to fake being townsided with his role, and so wouldn't have been giving out multiple fruits as that'd be self-incriminating)

[catboi]

Really for all this reading there's no way I vote anyone other than jackel today, and if they're not scum we just have to solve the game from there. There's just no scenario ever where they should not be flipped and so now's the time to do it.

[catboi]

Carboi outside of Jackel can I get your lunch order?

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I'm in the midst of reviewing it. Not sure there's much point in stating an "order" when we only have 2 eliminations left. Gun to my head right now it'd be dumb and dumber after jackel but I wouldn't really feel good there at all which is why I want the cleric on them. I could extreme tinfoil you, but if you're alive tomorrow you can confirm your role anyway.

[catboi]

Cuz i've played with scum!star before and this looks like her scumgame
Nobody has given a reason for why she's town

We havent had any corruption changes to the best of my knowledge

And you haven't given a reason why Jackel, or anyone else who is "flip-bait-y" is town

What is your lunch order

Mostly because i very strongly think star is scum and havent seen any convincing reason why jackel is

I think I've gone over how they look in relation to porkens/bell? It's bothersome that you seem to not be paying much attention there.

[catboi]

left. Gun to my head right now it'd be dumb and dumber after jackel but I wouldn't really feel good there at all which is why I want the cleric on them.

I'm literally baffled how we're lower in the poe than star

In part because you've only been repetitively harping on her for what seems like forever now? And I've never really had a solid grasp of anything you've said that came across as a definitively town thought. But I'm trying to do a reread right now. Would still probably consider you cleric-cleared if it comes to a day 4, so. Meh.

[catboi]

Huh? what is going on

[catboi]

yeah at this point flip jackel, cleric dumb and dumber, if the game isn't over then vote starbuck I guess (If banana is alive just make sure he confirms his role). I could do more rereading but it's boring and I won't consider a vote on anyone else today.

[catboi]

She might have flaked, but that is a strong reason why that slot just needs to go. I think I should be the one to hammer here?

[catboi]

Jackel98 Jul 23, 01:37am Aug 17, 07:53pm 1 day 19 hours
Starbuck Jul 23, 08:47am Aug 16, 11:58pm 2 days 15 hours

might be a problem

[catboi]

@mod: can we get a prod on starbuck?

[catboi]

If both of them are town somehow it's extremely disappointing to say the least

sadly this type of thing seems to be commonplace on this site. Hopefully both being town is not the case.

[catboi]

I'm not going to reference years-old meta to check someone because it likely has no relevance, I do know you never leave that slot alive because it won't magically start to towntell in a lylo situation. It's not like we COULD eliminate anyone else if we wanted to...which makes me feel like something is fishy. But what can you do? ┐(ﾟ～ﾟ)┌

[catboi]

And I've said why I think this is a higher percentage vote? But you just keep hammering the same talking points about "starbuck IIoA" or whatever but I'vee already said her reactions feel more legitimate.

[catboi]

This is atrocious, starbuck is going to be a non-poster for 2 more days and drag things out to the deadline

[catboi]

I passed the hell out last night. Just reading the last few pages that I missed, so I can make sure I'm on the same page with y'all.

Catboi, I really wish you would chill, dude. You rushed the hammer yesterday because you swore I'd be gone and you're trying to do the same right now.

We have time. Breathe.

We have

two days

, the thread is dead, and for some mysterious reason it's 5 to vote. You are vastly understating the urgency here. Yes, my hammer yesterday was an antsy one and selfish but that's really not the same case as what's going on right now

[catboi]

Although, I guess we have the ability to get an extension, now that I remember it.

[catboi]

Is it a bad time to say I'm really paranoid of Banana?

[catboi]

I knew it wasn't on the table for today and hoped it might resolve itself, but the whole thing about not seeing a section of his role was weird to me.

[catboi]

the actual reason for that was because originally tthe vote count the mod posted on thread lock had bell still voting porkens, btw. I know that's unverifiable but it's the truth. when I saw bell had maneuvered to starbuck I changed my mind.

[catboi]

maybe it's just them

[catboi]

VOTE: jackel

agreed with redtea staying on dumb and dumber. red by iso i think is pretty town. if the game doesnt end and banana is alive make sure to test his claim.

[catboi]

because that vote count is f i s h y

[catboi]

I did not receive corruption.

Meh. I stand by eliminating the unreadable lurker/flake slot. Kind of a weird circumstance anyway.

[catboi]

I don't think a replacement was going to be more readable. But that's neither here nor there.

I want to review redtea to be sure but do think it's probably just starbuck

[catboi]

Are you saying you got a message at the end of the night? Just ask the mod what your current corruption level is.

[catboi]

Okay. Weird. Would've assumed the last demon would want to raise someone corruption level.

I just kind of skimmed but I don't think it's you. Interactions with Bell don't look paired, extra cleric makes sense setup wise and would be a fairly gutsy claim for scum, have posts look like actual scumhunting. Starbuck just looks worse overall in the way she approached her votes.

I don't actually

feel

like I've been obvtown this game in spite of what people have said, but so go ahead, do your due diligence. Ask me anything, I guess?

[catboi]

Two? And why would it?

[catboi]

Lol I haven't played in 5 years, I'm not sure any meta of mine would hold up

[catboi]

anything you pick up on is

probably

going to be inherent to my personality rather than my alignment but I am town this game and hopefully theres evidence here for that

Curious as to what you saw, though? And what prompted that dive rather than rereading this game?

[catboi]

I have not. I would do a detailed review before voting but as of right now think it's probably starbuck

[catboi]

*pokes game with a stick*

[catboi]

I want to at least give her a chance to say something, do this thing properly. Also want to hear from dumb and dumber. I'll try to reread properly tonight, I'm just bad at doing those without confirmation biasing myself. It's a weird game in the sense that neither scum was really caught with much effort.

[catboi]

I'll try to reread properly when I have time tomorrow.

[catboi]

Why, exactly? What does being the last vote matter?

[catboi]

The way you're posting scares me, tbh

[catboi]

Why, exactly? What does being the last vote matter?

Because we're the closest thing to mechanically town in this game and we're not sold you're town

- Dumber

But, nominally, why would it

matter

? if you're wrong the game would be over, anyway. It makes no difference...for town.

The way you're posting scares me, tbh

Go on

Because while I can't really deny that the way strbuck has approached the wagon every day has been scummy, and her no-showing this day phase is a massive disappointment (regardless of alignment), this reads like "I need the extra point of corruption from hammering and can't win without it".

[catboi]

And given that there's no urgency to eliminate today, I'm disinclined to give you a chance to pull a fast one.

[catboi]

Like, if you don't trust me, why not ask me anything during this entire phase? Why push for voting starbuck anyway?

[catboi]

Your suspicion of my slot also feels undeveloped, and I"m not sure where it's stemming from just now, and if you're suspicious of me ... why haven't you questioned me this whole phase?

Because it basically wasn't in question until now. I figured if you were scum concerned with corruption levels you'd probably have killed redtea. But "I don't fully trust you, so give me hammer on a different player" doesn't make sense? at all?

And yeah, we're testing the no elimination, I guess.

[catboi]

I

will

elaborate that no-elim now seems to be the best bet for today. Catboi hammering between D&D and Starbuck tomorrow is fine with me. Starbuck's comeback up there seems way too put-together to come from maf, gotta say.

Starbuck, glad to have you around.
To add a tiny point to all of that: Stood out to me there that a maf!D&D motivation behind pointing out the saintess crumb would be to get their partner locked-in as town.

Meh. Not like making cases as scum is the hardest thing in the world.

That said, keep healing dumb and dumber and see what happens. I'm not going to sweat it, let the mechanics work this one out.

[catboi]

I'm not really whelmed by the case, but that last post she quoted is interesting, Lol.

[catboi]

Probably should have said something sooner if you had an issue seeing as it's under 5 hours to go and I'm about to go to sleep (that said, was never under any circumstance letting you hammer)

[catboi]

I guess we'll find out if I made a mistake or not. Hopefully not!

redtea:

keep healing dumb and dumber, do not change your target

[catboi]

(◞‸◟；) Sorry for getting overly paranoid, thanks for not messing it up there, was hoping you'd see I just wanted to make absolute certain dumb and dumber was completely mechanically cleared. good game all, thanks to Dunnstral for modding. I liked the concept of the setup~

[catboi]

@cat: we were the closest thing to being mechanically town (i.e. because of the clerics) and we were sligtly paranoid of you and would have slightly preferred if u were committed to voting somewhere

((´∀`;)) sorry about that, I just had the sudden flash thought of "what if they need the point of corruption" and abandoned reason momentarily. Still wish if you'd had doubts about me that you'd have talked about to me more, though!

[catboi]

and at some point my other head pointed out that the easiest way to resolve the paranoia (given that neither of us was pouring loads of energy into this) was just to let you die too

¯\_▐ ☯ ︿ ☯ ▐_/¯ Fair enough!

[catboi]

Oh, I guess now I can confess: I totally misunderstood androgybee's claim and thought it was a suicide dayvig by default and the corruption removal was, like, a bonus. It ended up working that way, of course, but if I had realized the way it worked at the time I wouldn't have pressed them to use it right away. Really lucky break for town on that one.