Mini Theme 2155: SIN: This Impurity must be Cleansed!

[Dumb and Dumber]

VOTE: Radical Rat
Hydras are the best!

-Dumbass

[Dumb and Dumber]

I think androgybee are probably town!

If anyone else has a negative-utility role I think it should probably just be claimed now

- Dumber

[Dumb and Dumber]

VOTE: bananacucho

- Dumber

[Dumb and Dumber]

lol aw man I didn't realize that 0 corruption really meant I have no vote

How am I supposed to hold onto my claim past day 1 if that's the case XD

So you can't vote if you're too pure?

-Dumbass

[Dumb and Dumber]

VOTE: androgybee

Can we not troll please

Why do you think they're trolling?
Or, perhaps said in another way, why are you voting them?

- Dumber

[Dumb and Dumber]

Radical Rat said "something something sayeth

the lord

" which may be a flavor claim to Saintess, etc.

-Dumbass

[Dumb and Dumber]

Dont really understand this vote

Probably that Bee's claim is so ridiculous that it must be trolling.

-Dumbass

[Dumb and Dumber]

Haha Dumbass interpreting Smart

-Dumbass

[Dumb and Dumber]

I assumed that SS was talking to androgybee when he was talking about trolling and that's why he's voting them, but perhaps I misread / misunderstood that post.

Either way I want him to explain it cuz it doesn't make much sense to me and seems kind of off

- Dumber

[Dumb and Dumber]

Thats what I am saying, just find odds that you think SS would vote someone for trolling. By definition, it would mean SS thinks androgeny is fooling around yet thinks they are mefia for that. Why would he ask people to stop "trolling" if thats how he just found a mefia?

I'm sorry, I don't understand what you're asking me.
I said the post is confusing and seems weird. I don't have an explanation for why he made it, that's why I asked.

Like what do you think he's doing in that post?

- Dumber

[Dumb and Dumber]

Joey I really don't understand what you're questioning me about? Or what you're trying to say?

I never said he was talking about us trolling? I thought his opening post was fairly clearly indicating he thought androgybee were trolling, so he voted for them. The bits I don't understand are why he thinks it's trolling (i.e. as opposed to being truthful), or why it's a vote-worthy offense.

By definition, it would mean SS thinks androgeny is fooling around yet thinks they are mefia for that.

Like I don't know what this sentence is even supposed to mean?

- Dumber

Pedit yeah that makes slightly more sense

[Dumb and Dumber]

I'm having some scumpings off of SS and also off of Joey independently, but this thing from Joey feels more white-knight-y than partner-y to me

- Dumber

[Dumb and Dumber]

But who in this game is trolling ... ? like who is he addressing even with that?

- Dumber

[Dumb and Dumber]

ok then

VOTE: joey

[Dumb and Dumber]

I mean you didn't really answer my questions so

- Dumber

[Dumb and Dumber]

I think we have some sort of communication issue, sorry about that

I voted you for this whole train of thought not making much sense to me but my other head has explained what he thinks you were trying to say and that makes a lot more sense now.

I do think that the 'trolling' and 'vote' were linked together tho, but i think you're saying you viewed them as separate statements that did not necessarily have much to do with each other (even though they were in the same post) and wanted to know why I viewed them as being linked? Is that what you were going for?

UNVOTE:

- Dumber

[Dumb and Dumber]

I currently townread Banana
and retract my scumpings on SS and Joey, and retract my townpings on Bee

I also have townpings on NorwegianBoy

- Dumber

[Dumb and Dumber]

VOTE: Porkens

Guys flashwagon pls

-Dumbass

[Dumb and Dumber]

It's not as fun

-Dumbass

[Dumb and Dumber]

Indeed, if I tried to fit together a comprehensive picture them townreading you would make you less likely to be partners.

Perfect, since we do townread Norwegianboi.

-Dumbass

[Dumb and Dumber]

Joey is town.

-Dumbass

[Dumb and Dumber]

Why did you go this direction?

I felt that it would be amusing.

-Dumbass

[Dumb and Dumber]

I like catboi's reads in #181.

Which reads of his do you find yourself agreeing with more?

-Dumbass

[Dumb and Dumber]

So i’m reading Joey/Banana as my strongest TR’s so far. And i’d like to solve outside of those slots.

We're at the same spot. Dumber has Bananacucho at a tier above you and Joey, and mechanically it's pretty likely he's town anyway~

Joey, Bananas, D&D, Norwe townblocc! Who are we firing?

-Dumbass

[Dumb and Dumber]

Your vote on one of Redtea/Jackel98 would be appreciated based on content so far.

Sure,

VOTE: Jackel69

-Dumbass

[Dumb and Dumber]

Scumread on Androgybee and Starbuck

-Dumbass

[Dumb and Dumber]

Andro has felt a little disengaged from the beginning and I find their bluff awkward.
Starbuck's content on the last page seems forced and unnatural.

I'll try getting into more specifics at a later point when I have time.

-Dumbass

[Dumb and Dumber]

[Dumb and Dumber]

This head is catching up now, and I'll be around for a bit

- Dumber

[Dumb and Dumber]

I currently townread Banana

and retract my scumpings on SS and Joey, and retract my townpings on Bee

I also have townpings on NorwegianBoy

- Dumber

Explain?

They feel incredibly relaxed/un-tense, and are comfortable drip-dripping details about their role in a way that I think is unlikely to come from scum.
They're just posting everything that comes to their mind without a filter really, and I feel that's townie

I currently townread Banana
and retract my scumpings on SS and Joey, and

retract my townpings on Bee

I also have townpings on NorwegianBoy

- Dumber

I still like Bee even after the current events

Yeah, thinking about it some more, I think it's fine too

- Dumber

[Dumb and Dumber]

Was Radical Rat's religious "roleplaying" really so out of character that two (three if counting D&D) people saw it as a flavour crumb, let alone one obvious enough to just out to everyone? Like, I'll trust you guys if that's the case, but I thought the point of crumbs was to leave subtle clues to point at later, and that pointing them out would be kind of against that.

I don't know how to read androgybee's fakeclaim, if it's AI at all. I guess it could be a way to see if a PR would out themselves, but that's a stretch tbh. Like, gutwise, trolling/muddying the water seems anti-town, since we'd be operating on false assumptions about how corruption works until they either out themselves or get eliminated, but I can't find scum motivation beyond just misinformation.

Joey_, why did you immediately believe their claim, yet you questioned D&D on why they thought SS was voting androgybee for trolling? You did say overthinking is your brand.

I don't love this post, for a few reasons:
a) The first bit feels like they're trying to undermine the townreads on Radical Rat
b) the second paragraph feels like scum who doesn't know how to react to a town!androgybee's fakeclaim

(Me disliking this post is a large part of why my other head voted for Jackel)

- Dumber

[Dumb and Dumber]

|˄·͈༝·͈˄₎.｡oO Second line in 26 is trying to look town.

Go on ...

- Dumber

[Dumb and Dumber]

Prodge for now.
I fucked up my neck a bit and am trying to limit phone/computer use.

Nothing super serious, I'm fine, just don't want to make things worse.

I hope you're OK!

[Dumb and Dumber]

Why vote Jackel? I am town reading him.

~Bee

Why?

[Dumb and Dumber]

I liked the post on Joey felt more like solving then wolf making comments.
Like it was kinda observant I guess, shows he was pinged by Joey and either double checked his ISO or put his posts into his memory to make that kind of connection.

Ah, sorry, should have read a bit more.

I don't think this was townie really. To me it felt a lot more like 'a wolf making comments' than 'solving'

- Dumber

[Dumb and Dumber]

Town: banana, nor, joey, possibly SS
Scummy: jackel, redtea, starbuck

I keep vacillating on where to put androgybee

Everyone else: I don't know

[Dumb and Dumber]

That's actually the one bit of the post that I didn't have an issue with but I see where you're coming from

I felt like their back-and-forth with you was scummy, it felt like scum trying to make conversation about, well, nothing really

- Dumber

[Dumb and Dumber]

I agree with the third section and at the time I scumread norwee and redtea.

Who do you currently scumread then?

- Dumber

[Dumb and Dumber]

I have aproximately zero thoughts on Redtea's posts, which is problematic

- Dumber

[Dumb and Dumber]

I have lost any semblance of a townread I had on androgybee

- Dumber

[Dumb and Dumber]

Fair enough.
I'm changing up my playstyle a bit from my usual one, on this hydra, so I can understand why you'd feel that way

Is there anything you'd like to talk to me about?

- Dumber

[Dumb and Dumber]

I feel like they're unenthused more than I'd expect them to be, and I dislike their Jackel take.

- Dumber

[Dumb and Dumber]

I mean, I feel like there's been quite a lot of AI material produced as a result of the claim, but they haven't really done much with it. I'm not sure why they made the claim, or what they were trying to get out of it, given that

- Dumber

[Dumb and Dumber]

I'm also not really sure I agree with the assertion that it makes sense for them to be unenthused after their gambit got shut down

And you're proving my point? Bee's saying he did it to get reads, but other than the RR read, not much has come out of it

- Dumber

[Dumb and Dumber]

I also don't townread SS, btw

- Dumber

[Dumb and Dumber]

Spoiler:

2nd part: I appreciate your answer to this question. I also found Bee to be townie, but now they appear to be somewhat... apathetic? Towards the game. Would you agree with that, and would the apathy drive them more into the town column or the scum column for you?

I don't think they're being apathetic, or at least not anymore than they were at the start of the game if you ignore the post restriction stuff. Haven't seen scum!bee so I'd have to glance through a scum game or two of his to answer that.

I agree with the third section and at the time I scumread norwee and redtea.

Who do you currently scumread then?

- Dumber

redtea. Probably Jackel but would like more from her before I'm sure. Sorta S_S but I trust others reads of him much more than my own.

I dislike this post: the first response doesn't really convey anything beyond a disagreement, and it's quite clear bee's slot was posting less enthusiastically compared to the initial pages where they gambited. Both this one and the second response feel forced/made up. NDMath has not really left any impression at all on either of us apart from this and that's concerning.

I don't understand their reads, and that's mostly what they talk about.

Then why aren't you questioning us about them? Does "mostly talking about reads" concern you?
It's quite odd that this contributes to a strong -1.5, the top two scumreads in the game and yet there's no attempt to engagement.

Something_Smart, do you have any opinions on my slot in particular?

-Dumbass

[Dumb and Dumber]

I also don't townread SS, btw

- Dumber

Null read? Or scum read?

I like them so I'm curious as to your reasoning

Nullscum maybe?
I'm not sure exactly where to put them, but I just wanted to make it known since I'm seeing a lot of people saying they're townreading him.
I'm also not sure exactly how to quantify this read beyond 'feels a lot more passive than I would expect from him as town'
(But I also feel a little awkward using this as reasoning as I'm a secret hydra and he doesn't know who he's talking to, etc, but that really is what it boils down to. IDK. Feels a bit strange to push on that reasoning tho)

Also I agree with my other head's read on NDMath - he feels like he's talking around the game without really interfacing with it
- Dumber

[Dumb and Dumber]

What do you wanna talk about?

- Dumber

[Dumb and Dumber]

Yeah I was just speaking with my other head about how jackel's reads don't exactly match up with her actions
Townreading you while saying nor is her biggest scumread while he's your biggest townread just feels a bit off

(But then I did follow up with that I would imagine that some scum would be hyper-aware of that incongruity and would try to sidestep it/buddy the declared townread by making sure to engage with their declared townread about how they differ on that. But I'm not sure if

all

scum would approach it that way, or only more skilled/experienced scum. I feel like skilled scum would try to do the buddying, while unskilled scum might not realize they need to. Not sure how much that made sense or how well I got that across)

I don't remember who the other person is tho

- Dumber

[Dumb and Dumber]

I want to talk about the shifts in scumreads when I posted my list; everyone’s attention went to red/alligator which is great, it’s just not normal/expected, you know? The game doesn’t work like that if town are correct on their reads. I need someone to exchange their own reads with me so I can bounce some ideas

Do you feel the gamestate I am talking about? There’s a distinct lack of resistance

Yeah I feel that.
But the game overall feels unusually passive so I think that's kinda messing with things too.

And if scum is like {jackel, redtea, someone else} I'm not sure how much resistance we'd be getting anyways?
That being said, I am feeling like people are trying to shift to redtea over jackel, and while I don't think redtea's posting is great, I'm not sure that I read it as scummy, whereas I find jackel actively scummy.

- Dumber

[Dumb and Dumber]

I mean, if alligator/red were town (as if we consider theyre scum in this game) I am assuming they would be better posters

You said you’re a secret hydra, do you have aby relevant meta? Have we ever played together?

Also, I will try to reread (yes already) and try to find more mefias and i suggest you do the same
2 unviversal trs and 2 somewhat universal srs is bad

I don't think I've played with you before.
If I have it was like once, and it must have been several years ago cuz I don't remember it.

I in general don't have loads of meta with this pl, but I have played with a few people.

My spicy take for a scumread is Starbuck.

- Dumber

[Dumb and Dumber]

Let's get the wagon momentum going.

VOTE: NDMath

-Dumbass

[Dumb and Dumber]

Hmm uh

Radical Rat is still town

androgybee, D&D, catboi > rand town?

Why are we randtown?
What do you think of the fact that I scumread you?

- Dumber

[Dumb and Dumber]

We're going to go back here
VOTE: jackel

[Dumb and Dumber]

(My other head still scumreads ndmath but we want a wagon)

[Dumb and Dumber]

in particular jackal ofc, since that seems to be a focal point.

Did you guys do this? I'd like to hear what happened to that townread ...

- Dumber

[Dumb and Dumber]

If it weren't for the fact that we're inching towards a deadline with a remarkably quiescant pl I'd probably be trying to wagon you now

Ok so now that you know that I'm scumreading you, what do you think about it ?
(I did make a point of posting that a few days ago though)

- Dumber

[Dumb and Dumber]

I made a point of posting that I scumread you like on Tuesday.

OK, why does it make me slightly townier?

- Dumber

[Dumb and Dumber]

VOTE: ss

- Dumber

(I'm also not sure I believe you to be widely townread)

[Dumb and Dumber]

Huh
OK I forgot that I wrote that and do not currently believe you to be widely townread

- Dumber

[Dumb and Dumber]

I await your explanation beyond "lol he's passive"

It basically is just that tho :/
(In combination with meta that I don't know how to divorce from the read-making process)

- Dumber

[Dumb and Dumber]

I kinda think town!you would have responded (or at the very least noticed) the entire discussion I had a couple of days ago regarding my read on you tho

- Dumber

[Dumb and Dumber]

you think I'm more self-conscious as town?

almost nobody is more self-conscious as town, least of all me

when someone drops a post, especially a read list, when I'm scum, the first thing I look for is their read on me

I sometimes do this as town too but I'm a lot less likely to forget it as scum

Well, not more self-conscious, exactly, but I think that you aren't particularly likely to engage with scumreads on you as scum without a lot of teeth-pulling

Have you found any scumreads yet?

- Dumber

[Dumb and Dumber]

Have you found any scumreads yet?

No

Ok so we're most of the way through day1, so i have a bit of a problem with this ...

I'm also getting townpings from bell

- dumber

[Dumb and Dumber]

That's a tell that i've noticed in my own games too ^

And how did SS towntell?

- Dumber

[Dumb and Dumber]

So much talk. C'mon guys, let's put someone at L-1.

-Dumbass

[Dumb and Dumber]

If Norwegian were to magically flip town at some point, that would force me to re-evaluate absolutely everything about this whole game.

Major scumpings. Given Norwe already feels pretty much town, this hyperbole seems disingenuous.

-Dumbass

[Dumb and Dumber]

Smart: everything ok, bud? What's up with the loss of wim? Your tone feels off (not in the scummy sense) to me.

-Your opposite

[Dumb and Dumber]

Basically, he's thinking you are slightly townier by using his role card for his read, this is town pov (in comparison to what androgybee did)

He knows he's town

yet he's being somewhat townread by the majority of the town. Now, DD out of the blue, scumreads him. So he ask himself; Why would scum go after me when im townread? they will only be facing resistance which would be annoying/bad for them. DD is most likely town because I doubt mafia would take the time/energy to make a scumread on me here at this time of day/context/ w/e

This is such an easy thing to fake tho, I do it as scum all the time?
It's a really easy way to low-key imply that you're approaching things from a town POV, so I sprinkle statements like that in to elicit the exact reaction that you're giving

- Dumber

[Dumb and Dumber]

feel like im being misunderstood here, not sure if it's deliberate or not but it sure feels obtuse, and im not gonna bother trying to clarify further if you can't see it.

~nahdia

OK, what part is joey misunderstanding wrt your bell read?

- Dumber

[Dumb and Dumber]

I kinda townread red now too

I really want androgybee to clarify some of their read progressions (esp. the one on jackel)

I also think that I brought this up like twice already ^

- Dumber

[Dumb and Dumber]

ill also say wrt to jackel, i have no reason to townread the slot but their readlist doesnt look particularly bad for any reason to me and im pretty worried they could be a misexecution. so i'd rather we aim at a slot i actually find scummy (NDMath).

Ah sorry I should have continued reading, I didn't get to this post yet

OK so Bee does townread jackel (or at least, he said he did the last time he talked about her). How is he currently reading her? What do you think of the points I raised in 334?

I think she's been actively scummy, and I'm also noticing that out of jackel/redtea, there's been more support for redtea / the wagon has slowly been migrating towards redtea over jackel, and I'm not sure why that's been happening

- Dumber

[Dumb and Dumber]

was on my alt Tipsy)

Huh

[Dumb and Dumber]

but basically in that game and this one, most of his content is reactive to the game happening around him as opposed to proactively sorting and forming reads.

I think this is a reasonable assessment of scum!SS ^

- Dumber

[Dumb and Dumber]

Shit there's actually not a lot of players here that are familiar with me. Maybe Porkens?

(Me)

- Dumber

[Dumb and Dumber]

VOTE: jackel

Really for deadline-wagon purposes more than anything else

- Dumber

[Dumb and Dumber]

VOTE: NDMath

-Dumbass

[Dumb and Dumber]

I'm wondering if Joey was onto something ... ^

I want to start with jackel or starbuck

VOTE: starbuck

[Dumb and Dumber]

I'm also not super thrilled with the compromise wagon on ndmath yesterday, and would bet multiple scumz on wagon

- dumber

(Whoops the last post was me too)

[Dumb and Dumber]

Oh cool

[Dumb and Dumber]

2 night kills is troubling

I would imagine that at least one of them came from some entity other than the scumteam tho

- Dumber

[Dumb and Dumber]

For now, OK

But I would like to strongly reiterate that I believe starbuck and jackel to be scummy

VOTE: porkens

- Dumber

[Dumb and Dumber]

For now, OK

But I would like to strongly reiterate that I believe starbuck and jackel to be scummy

VOTE: porkens

- Dumber

Can you talk to me about Starbuck?

Her whole ISO is basically IIOA (information instead of analysis). There's like no scumhunting there, even if it's hard to notice that behind the wallposts.

- Dumber

[Dumb and Dumber]

I'm feeling a little bit unsure on Jackel, cool with the vote though.
Joey NK over Banana is mildly ? to me.

-Dumbass

[Dumb and Dumber]

I highly doubt S_S kill was scum motivated. We probably just have a bad vig or something. Because S_S wasn’t exactly prime townread material.

If we have a vig I think Porkens is an A+ shot

- Dumber

[Dumb and Dumber]

Porkens, do you have a read on my slot?

- Dumber

[Dumb and Dumber]

I think you came in to today feeling pretty chuffed at town joeys 100% townread of you being locked in, and you got a bit shook when I called you out. You posturing about your town créd and simply omgusing me for daring to question your immaculateness. In the lost charitable light I can imagine, you are scum caught for the wrong reasons. You can quote and color code that however you like.

Scum!nor is a really bad take

- Dumber

[Dumb and Dumber]

There is absolutely no way I’m wrong 3/3 on my reads at EOD yesterday. You don’t add up and you are freaking the fuck out.

I mean, do you generally have good reads?

- Dumber

[Dumb and Dumber]

I'm pretty happy with this porkens vote, but I'd also switch to starbuck if that ever became a thing

- Dumber

[Dumb and Dumber]

Should I use one of my powers?

Yes! I'm pretty sure you'd be targeted for the NK.

-Dumbass

[Dumb and Dumber]

I think Starbuck has a lot of posts that feel NAI or is just her agreeing with or other light comments on other peoples posts.
Like she is playing this game from a spectator or back seat position which I think is scum indicative.

I agree with this. Some posts of hers (the policy one comes to mind) make me feel as though she's trying to mimic what she does as town. Starbuck seems very passive compared to what I've seen from her in the past.

-Dumbass

[Dumb and Dumber]

There is another side effect that's pretty cool. Does anyone wanna guess?

If you're going to die as a result I'd rather you not , unless the side effect is *really* cool.
What is it, a venge shot?

-Dumbass

[Dumb and Dumber]

I'm gonna die anyway lol

Yeah, but it takes away one NK from scum, no? Unless you'd die without the NK.

-Dumbass

[Dumb and Dumber]

I have a hunch that scum have higher corruption thresholds for dying. Should we all mass claim these thresholds?
We're at 3-7 right now anyway, right? Pre-LyLo. Hm, maybe we should fully mass then?

-Dumbass

[Dumb and Dumber]

Before you talk about / use your ability I think we should mass claim and then optimize.

-Dumbass

[Dumb and Dumber]

But I thought that typically it was lylo when you did mass claiming.

No, it's usually the day before LyLo for a few reasons. You get a night to test claims, and in case of mechanical counter-claims you can afford to execute both, etc.

-Dumbass

[Dumb and Dumber]

Probable Pre-LyLo.

Massclaim

-Dumbass

[Dumb and Dumber]

If receiving fruit also means that the receiver gets a corruption point, the fruit vendor sounds like a scum role to me
At the very least, it's neg-utility, and should have been claimed, and ought not to have been used on Banana

I'm going to go here
VOTE: Starbuck

- Dumber

[Dumb and Dumber]

Oh that's a good point, actually, I forgot about that.
OK it's not inherently scummy in that context then

- Dumber

[Dumb and Dumber]

I'm applying ellitell to Starbuck at this point.

She's actively posting elsewhere on site since the day started, but hasn't posted anything here other than a vague 'I'll catch up soon' post

- Dumber

[Dumb and Dumber]

Oh look, star has done more IIOA

I'm oddly less interested in jackel now

- Dumber

[Dumb and Dumber]

Limited to phone posting for next few days.
Read a little about roles. I think it would be better to claim here, I gave the fruit to Banana.

We think this claim is townie, btw

- Dumber

[Dumb and Dumber]

So while I've been having a ridiculous week (lots of work stuff and my fam in CT got hit hard with Isaias) and been all over, I'm just one person

I hope everyone is OK!
That being said, I think that your current contribution to the game is largely IIOA and that you're not, like, scumhunting, but rather making inane comments to things that's happened ages ago, and that these comments aren't particularly helping solve anything

I would like to hear who you think is being opportunistic

- Dumber

[Dumb and Dumber]

Like you're acting like the game is going unreasonably fast and that you can't keep up ... when just about nothing has been happening and the game is in fact going incredibly slowly.

- Dumber

[Dumb and Dumber]

Exactly, so that's why I don't get this push for policy or low activity.

That's not why I'm pushing you, really

- Dumber

[Dumb and Dumber]

@Bell

Give me fruit again tonight. If I die (very likely) I take the corruption with me.

Eh we could take some too, I think tbh

- Dumber

(Sorry @my other head if I oughtn't to have said that)

[Dumb and Dumber]

The thing is that, imo, it's entirely possible to catchup in a non-IIOA sort of way.

Like look at her catchup posts - can you honestly tell me that she's using them to scumhunt?

- Dumber

[Dumb and Dumber]

I don't even know what her reads are

- Dumber

[Dumb and Dumber]

Why are we not wagoning star again ?????????

Despite how this is being portrayed by several different people, this is not just an activity based pushed, and I do not understand why wagoning her is so hard

- Dumber

[Dumb and Dumber]

(๑•ิཬ•ั๑) She's been stalling for time but I'm running out of patience. It's not like it's a terribly hard game to catch up on, I did it in basically no time.

Yes, exactly. She's acting like people are being totally unreasonable (and scummy) in asking her to catchup and like scumhunt, but there's only been like 12 pages or so in about 3 irl days, and it's not like those are particularly content-heavy pages ... quite a lot of it is people just complaining about the lack of activity anyways.

And *even if* she can't catchup fully - the things that she *is* posting are pretty much devoid of AI content, analysis, or scumhunting. She's posting inane comments and reactions to things that's happened several irl days ago that literally doesn't matter to anyone anymore.

I don't think it's unreasonble to want to know what her reads are at this point.

And I'm baffled that multiple people are acting like I'm placing an unreasonable onus on her to be active, or that it's scummy to expect her to actually, like, play the game.

I think the fact that it's so impossible to wagon her, and that there's so much resistance to it, is scum-indicative as well

- Dumber

[Dumb and Dumber]

Banana, cat, bell, can I ask you to vote Star please?

- Dumber

[Dumb and Dumber]

I think Starbuck is a better vote than Porkens, still.

Not totally sure I like Andro's hesitance to reveal the cost.

-Dumbass

[Dumb and Dumber]

{BananaCucho, Norwe, Catboi} we're at strong town for all of these.
My partner townreads andro, and I think the claim comes from town too: strongly think they should reveal the cost at some point at least next game day.

-Dumbass

[Dumb and Dumber]

I personally still think we need a full massclaim today considering its pre-LyLo.

-Dumbass

[Dumb and Dumber]

Checking in - VT.

@Clerics: does your role PM say "a" Cleric, or "the" Cleric?

We still haven't accounted for the S_S kill, right?

-Dumbass

[Dumb and Dumber]

I don't find the doubled cleric claim to be inherently scummy, imo; I think they can both be town

I think that androgybee has managed to claim in just about the scummiest way possible but gun-to-head I'd say they're probably town? But they certainly aren't helping things

I think it's possible that people got corrupted last night but didn't know it - iirc the OP says that people will only be alerted to a *net* corruption change. IE if their corruption gains and losses cancel each other out, they won't be alerted. like a +1 corruption and -1 corruption won't be announced since there's no net change.

So I don't think it's possible to fully track all of the corruption getting passed about.

Nothing about this massclaim has made me want to vote outside of porkens/Star

- Dumber

[Dumb and Dumber]

UNVOTE: NEE
I'm gonna do it
VOTE: BananaCucho

This isn't a thing that's happening today, try again

Can we just wagon star now? I really don't know why this is so hard to make happen ...

- Dumber

[Dumb and Dumber]

I'm not really sure how, or where, I'm holding up or derailing this wagon. I made it p clear we'd switch to porkens if necessary, but that Star was our first choice.

- Dumber

[Dumb and Dumber]

Lmao that's great nahdia
And ha i was right thinking a compulsive fruit vendor that hands out corruption is scum

Let me take a look at bell's iso for associatives

- dumber

[Dumb and Dumber]

VOTE: Starbuck

E-2 I think.

This loosely makes me think not-partners

Meh

VOTE: porkens for now until i can do a deeper dive

- dumber

[Dumb and Dumber]

This makes me rethink D/D.

Hi

[Dumb and Dumber]

VOTE: star

Actually nm

[Dumb and Dumber]

Bell was basically indifferent on porkens/starbuck while barely mentioning jackel. That is probably where we should be looking.

? I dont get this. Why does bell-scum point to jackel-scum

Given my current understanding of the gamestate, bell would have been trying to be the deepwolf, so I dont think a vote on star/porkens is clearing for them

Also did anyone else get fruit?

We dont know how ss died, right?

- dumber

[Dumb and Dumber]

VOTE: Jackel98
D/D i have a FOS on you for constantly turning the vote away from Jackel to Starbuck/Porkens today.

Star is still scummy. I'm reassessing porkens

I dont get the link between scum-bell and scum-jackel

[Dumb and Dumber]

Um those two posts are in no way clearing of star

- dumber

[Dumb and Dumber]

Oh shit guys

Claim aside, I think Norwee is probably scum

Ooooh spicy take. Go on

[Dumb and Dumber]

How can jackal agree with starbuck’s reads, when like, he hasn’t stated any. Is he even voting rn?

This is shading jackel and star both ?

[Dumb and Dumber]

Also i doubt there's a third party in this setup now.

How do you think SS died?

- Dumber

[Dumb and Dumber]

I'm not saying that one extra kill means there's a 3p, but we're missing some details that would explain his death

My working theory rn is: fruit + using his investigative ability + 3rd unknown corruption point, causing him to die

- Dumber

[Dumb and Dumber]

Oh votes reset, neat. It's a sign that I should go back to voting Norwee
VOTE: NorwegianboyEE

This isn't a thing that's happening today

- Dumber

[Dumb and Dumber]

Note that during this DD also "holds up the wagon" on Porkens as Norwee puts it, but we don't have a flip yet on Porkens/DD so I'm just looking at Bell rn

Hi, I'm quite baffled why scum!bell implies scum!jackel, or that porkens is town, or that star is town, or that I'm scummy for wanting those wagons

Like none of this makes sense to me, and to me scum!bell doesn't absolve either porkens or star and I still want to wagon star

- Dumber

[Dumb and Dumber]

Catboi what’s your read on D/D right now?

Haven't re-evaluated yet but was mildly wary of their insistence on starbuck over other options for most of the day. Will try to look back in a few hours from now.

Cuz star is scummy? Like literally nobody townreads her (hell, nahdia agreed with me that star is scummy af) so the issue here is ...

- Dumber

[Dumb and Dumber]

If DD/Bell is a team, why aren't they content to let today end in a elimination of Starbuck or Porkens?

Not a team, but I also can't defend this cuz my other head wanted it and I was kinda ambivalent, so I'll ask him to explain

- Dumber

[Dumb and Dumber]

Now, given Bell's flip and redtea's lack of action (while claiming the same role), I think there's merit in looking at the claimed Clerics.

I still don't think a 3P is out of the question.

As for Porkens, I'm glad we have an extension and I hope to get to his ISO later this afternoon or evening.

I'm sorry, this is a townie post how ?

- Dumber

[Dumb and Dumber]

Porkens is still scummy too

I really don't think the bell scumflip should change anybody's mind about either of those slots

- Dumber

[Dumb and Dumber]

How was bell angling for starbuck?

- Dumber

[Dumb and Dumber]

I'd go there too, happily

But I also want to understand why people are backing off of star and why she no longer seems to be in the elim-pool

- Dumber

[Dumb and Dumber]

Mostly cuz he placed the E-2 vote on Star?
I don't find that to be clearing

Otherwise I'm not sure what interactions you're referring to

- Dumber

[Dumb and Dumber]

Definitely an interesting turn of events.
Well played, Bell.

-Dumbass

[Dumb and Dumber]

@mod: Was part of Something_Smart's role PM hidden on flip?

I don't find information on the corruption threshold for death.

-Dumbass

[Dumb and Dumber]

I'm a Priest of corruption.

Cleric

- Norwee (Decrease corruption by 1)

Cleric

- redtea (Decrease corruption by 1)

E.H.

- Banana (Self-harm 1 corruption to increase day time by 24 hours, Can't place votes at 0 corruption.)

Beast master

-Porkens (self-harm, 1 corruption increase to target another player, sacrifice pet and lose target ability to survive if corruption is 3 or greater)

Cursed Townie

- Starbuck (+1 corruption if not on elim wagon)

Jackel -

VT

Dumb & Dumber-

VT

Catboi-

VT

(

KIA

) NDMath -

VT

(

KIA

) S_S -

Saintess

(Mod confirmed role, Jack of all trades)
(

KIA

) Joey_ -

VT

(

KIA

) androgybee (Self-destructing purification role thing...?)

Priest of Corruption

- Bell (increase corruption by 1 with loud modifier)

Not claimed:
- starbuck

HMM. Bell actually claimed his true flavor.

-Dumbass

[Dumb and Dumber]

They claimed their scum name lmao.

Yeah. Not gonna lie, "Beastmaster" also sounds a bit like a scum flavor...

-Dumbass

[Dumb and Dumber]

VOTE: porkens

- dumber

[Dumb and Dumber]

Uh huh

[Dumb and Dumber]

He's pushing two of the towniest players in the game (cat, nor), and his pushes are so far removed from the reality of the gamestate that i'm having a hard time seeing it come from a town perspective

[Dumb and Dumber]

This head is a she, btw

I took a quick skim at bell's iso and saw the star vote
My first thought was anti-partner-y, so voted for the second-best scumread

And then as i thought about it some more, I realized that given bell's positioning in the game (probable deepwolf), voting an E-2 vote on a badly positioned partner (i.e. star who's still done nothing townie this whole game) isnt clearing, and can p easily be a distancing vote

The time between the two posts ia like a handful of minutes, i was kinda thinking of all of that as i wrote those posts

[Dumb and Dumber]

This is a hard claim.

Everyone in this game has the following post restriction,

Corruption

must be said using the following code. Otherwise we will automatically lower your corruption level at night. Please do not make me hurt you I would be very sad if I did.

Code: Select all

 [color=#8080BF][b]Corruption[/b][/color]

~Bee

So the fakeclaim was that if we don’t format corruption in that way, our corruption level goes VOTE: down and RR was

avoiding

that. And that is townread why? Because some roles “might” use corruption differently, even tho those are “likely scum”?

I must be missing something

Yeah, you're right lol. In retrospect this is coming from a scum pov given how we know bell's role interacted with corruption

- dumber

[Dumb and Dumber]

So we're voting Porky, right? Good.

-Dumbass

[Dumb and Dumber]

Sup, folks

-Dumbass

[Dumb and Dumber]

Didnt get to say: I didn't say it was

likely

lol.

I got one corruption!
And fucking Norwee is dead??
...interesting choice

Ours didn't change

I still think star is scum

VOTE: star

- Dumber

[Dumb and Dumber]

We could also be living in a world where mafia has 4 players and today is LYLO

I think this is remarkably unlikely

[Dumb and Dumber]

I want to review DD today. They were on the Porkens train at the end but basically pushed Starbuck relentlessly over Porkens for as long as I remember

Cuz star is still scummy

[Dumb and Dumber]

We pivoted to Porkens, no? I personally wouldn't let him fakeclaim "Beastmaster"

-Dumbass

[Dumb and Dumber]

Or town DD realizing at 7-3 we can't afford to mislunch here and a mass claim helps us solve it?

It's convention to mass claim at pre-LyLo!

I think we should just eliminate Starbuck today?

-Dumbass

[Dumb and Dumber]

Obviously a massclaim helps scum, but it also helps town (and more), and more when you're in pre-Lylo. This is not some cunning trick I was trying to manipulate town into falling for, it's established that mass-claims on the day before LyLo are good.

At 2 corruption you're more likely to be given corruption and killed than be NK'd.

And when I said this, IIRC I didn't know that his using a power would lead to more corruption. I explicitly said a few posts after that not to use his power if he would die as a result.

Whose voting record is impressive? Most were townreading Bell. We were on Porkens a lot. If Starbuck's scum, our voting record for D2 would be stellar

-Dumbass

[Dumb and Dumber]

Why Starbuck over Jackel in particular?

Jackel leaves no impression on me, whereas Starbuck leaves a scummy one.

-Dumbass

[Dumb and Dumber]

Oh look, more IIOA

- Dumber

[Dumb and Dumber]

Look, it would be helpful to know who you think is scum today, who your townreads are, and how you think we should be solving the game

Literally nothing you've posted tonight is helpful to any of that

If someone is townreading star can you explain why?

Banana? Cat? jackel? red?

Like why is this town ^

- Dumber

[Dumb and Dumber]

I'm trying hard not to eyeroll at their 1999. It's rich to just have them discredit me the whole game, then ask for me to appease them. I don't think they've read anything that I've written. Not to mention, deeming everything that I post as IIoA is just lazy, at this point. I bet I could get drunk if I took a shot every time they've used that acronym. And yes, I caught up on what I missed from the thread opening until now but I need to do some ISO work and that's not happening tonight. That'll be a tomorrow thing hopefully. Tuesday is out of the question for me as its the Florida Primary.

It's day3
We've had two scumflips

Asking you what your reads are is not an unreasonable request in a mafia game at this phase. You shouldn't need to reread the entire game in order to give some off-the-cuff reads

I've read every single post you've written. If you think that I'm not, and that you've actually included some analysis that would indicate where you think scum is (in something less wishy-washy than 'eh i'll need to read some iso's') feel free to quote it and prove me wrong

Like this whole post is discrediting my slot and not addressing the core issue, which is that you're not solving anything

- Dumber

[Dumb and Dumber]

Tuesday is out of the question for me as its the Florida Primary.

Also I hope this goes well

- Dumber

[Dumb and Dumber]

Lest we forget Joey's reads, that may or may not have gotten him killed early...

Porkens is the sort of scum who'd unabashedly nk someone who was hard scumreading him

- Dumber

[Dumb and Dumber]

I think I already quoted this post before, it seems familiar, but I'm re-reading the whole game in sequence and it stuck out a 2nd time to me

Town: banana,

nor

,

joey

, possibly

SS

Scummy:

jackel

,

redtea

,

starbuck

I keep vacillating on where to put

androgybee

Everyone else: I don't know

Both Porkens and Radical Rat/Bell are literally no where to be found in the reads list here

I think I my lunch order this is this:

Jackel >> DD >> Starbuck/Redtea (no fucking idea really between these 2) >> Catboi

I mean they were both lurkers who were all but absent
Like I'm not sure what you expect at that stage of the game
Bell wasn't even there yet iirc

And i'm p impressed with myself that my townreads were 4/4 there, I really just need to trust myself more
(assuming you're town, of course)

Why exactly are we lower than the star/red tier ???

- Dumber

[Dumb and Dumber]

Though maybe they just knew that mafia wanted corruption to survive

Good point

[Dumb and Dumber]

porkens repeatedly referred to jackel as "flipbait" but I don't think it's past him to shield a partner that way and hope people out-wifom themselves as thinking it as whiteknighting.

I think that porkens has a p surface level scumgame, like what you see is what you get

[Dumb and Dumber]

Nah, I'm just that good
(sometimes)

But really tho can you elaborate on why we're lower than star/red beyond just 'circumstances'?
What part of my star push do you find unconvincing?

- Dumber

[Dumb and Dumber]

OK, because ...

- Dumber

[Dumb and Dumber]

P1:
No, on ELo is not fine. Especially in a game where scum may have additional instantial kill power.

P2:
a. Still stands that at 979 we did not know about Corruption.
b. I wasn't keeping track of how much Corruption he had.
c. Why does it not make sense to independently ask someone not to use an ability if the side effect means they die?
d. So I can "easily fake" concern about insta-death side effects, but it's much more difficult to fake concern about 1 extra Corruption?
e. And your final argument is that we did not display enough concern about his getting 1 extra Corruption, and that's scummy? OK - were you concerned? Was anyone concerned?

-Dumbass

[Dumb and Dumber]

Redtea then has 3 choices to heal corruption

We should be stacking the heals on someone scummy, yes? And they shouldn't be healing anyone.

-Dumbass

[Dumb and Dumber]

DD can you please explain to me what changed between these two posts regarding Jackel? The first one was made when there were 2 trains, Jackel and Redtea, with 3 votes each (and one fake-pseudo bananavote)

Well, two different heada gave those two reads
(See the signed posts)
Each of us just shared what we were thinking at the time

Kinda hard to explain the progression when there wasnt one consistent one

- dumber

[Dumb and Dumber]

I mean, i dont know what you want me to say
I wrote the first post
I didnt write the second

I cant make up a progression that didnt exist, and i think it's fallacious to expect me to be able to produce one when it's p clear that two different people wrote that at two different times

[Dumb and Dumber]

Btw our corruption didnt change last night and to the best of our knowledge we still have 0 corruption

I assume this means you cant have negative corruption

[Dumb and Dumber]

See from my pov there's 3 flip-bait-y slots
And we only have 1 miselim

So we cant just vote through the pool

[Dumb and Dumber]

Cuz i've played with scum!star before and this looks like her scumgame
Nobody has given a reason for why she's town

We havent had any corruption changes to the best of my knowledge

[Dumb and Dumber]

Cuz i've played with scum!star before and this looks like her scumgame
Nobody has given a reason for why she's town

We havent had any corruption changes to the best of my knowledge

And you haven't given a reason why Jackel, or anyone else who is "flip-bait-y" is town

What is your lunch order

Mostly because i very strongly think star is scum and havent seen any convincing reason why jackel is

[Dumb and Dumber]

*DD fucks off to the bathroom without leaving their lunch order*

*DD was dealing with irl things and her phone died*

Star > red/jackel > catboi > you

- dumber

[Dumb and Dumber]

Again pointing out that star has done no solving all day (and all game)

Also 3-1 mylo is better than 2-1 lylo

[Dumb and Dumber]

left. Gun to my head right now it'd be dumb and dumber after jackel but I wouldn't really feel good there at all which is why I want the cleric on them.

I'm literally baffled how we're lower in the poe than star

[Dumb and Dumber]

jackel is simultaneously someone I dread will flip town yet absolutely do not want in a lylo gamestate. They do seem to question joey about voting porkens in 683, give an "i agree but i'll vote elsewhere", refers to porkens as a "mega compromise" in 1107, and that's about it for their read there. Her second post was 153 which was kind of a weird comment on radical rat, basically nothing on bell.

bell and porkens ere also really light on mentions of jackel although that might just be an inactivity thing. porkens repeatedly referred to jackel as "flipbait" but I don't think it's past him to shield a partner that way and hope people out-wifom themselves as thinking it as whiteknighting.

This isnt anymore incriminating than your analysis of jackel

[Dumb and Dumber]

*of star

Why is jackel scum again?

[Dumb and Dumber]

Yeah I'm not liking how DD is just spamming "vote Star" while saying things like "no solving today" when they haven't done much solving today either

I mean, you at least know where i want to vote today
Can you say that of the person who you're defending?

[Dumb and Dumber]

what the hell lol

- Dumber

[Dumb and Dumber]

I don't understand how you townread Jackel and scum read Star

I don't really townread jackel

I just don't scumread her, whereas I actively scumread star

[Dumb and Dumber]

if it's like literally 5 to vote out i'd switch to jackel for y'all but like under duress and protest

- Dumber

[Dumb and Dumber]

I feel like we're basically talking past each other
we're basically scumreading our respective scumreads for the exact same reasons, but for some reason that's manifesting as jackel-first to you and star-first to me

the thing is that i'm willing to acknowledge that jackel is doing the exact same thing as star and that she's in my poe pool too (hence why i'd switch if we need five voters cuz we won't get anywhere otherwise) but i'm baffled that you're all but ignoring star

like i don't think jackel is town and i'm not giving her a pass
i just have personal history with star and i know this is what her scumgame looks like, whereas i don't have that history with jackel so for all i know, she actually plays town this way

like i think jackel looks bad for the exact same reasons that you do, and for the exact same reasons i scumread star

i just happen to know that it's literally scum indicative for star, whereas i don't know that for jackel

i hope that explains my position better

and i'm just baffled that you lot are all ignoring star for ??? reasons

- Dumber

[Dumb and Dumber]

aside do you have any thoughts on why you're not dead?

[Dumb and Dumber]

did u elaborate on that anywhere?

[Dumb and Dumber]

n other words, they'd rather have Starbuck around still than Jackel.

a) i'm aware that this is mostly a policy thing, i'm pointing out that it's silly to level a policy thing against jackel alone when star is doing ... the exact same thing

b) even though it's mostly a policy thing, certain people are presenting it as being a scumread

[Dumb and Dumber]

Its been 4 irl days and Jackel and Starbuck literally have said nothing

whoo, progress

[Dumb and Dumber]

Eh, Jackel does seem to me like the false-positive type. O Jackel haterz, have you read through any of his town games to evaluate the strength of your reasoning to scumread him?


-Dumbass

[Dumb and Dumber]

Why are you defending Jackel? Want them around after Star to eliminate in MLYLO?

You think scum!us would find it difficult to eliminate Starbuck in MyLo as opposed to Jackal?

I want the highest % shot. I think Jackel slot can be replaced at this point?

-Dumbass

[Dumb and Dumber]

I will vote jackel to get the quorum needed for hammer but i will reiterate that i think there's a decent chance she's flipping town and has just flaked

- dumber

[Dumb and Dumber]

@mod: Replace Jackel if she doesn't post?

-Dumbass

[Dumb and Dumber]

Sorry

I've had a shitty few days and my other head is busy.

I am not convinced that this is flipping scum but I've kinda run out of strength to argue about this anymore
But just want to make sure my position clear

I think redtea should target us

- Dumber

[Dumb and Dumber]

VOTE: jackel

[Dumb and Dumber]

Oh hey, look, jackel flipped town. We're, to nobody's surprise, leaning towards scum! Star

Our corruption, once again, did not change.

- dumber

[Dumb and Dumber]

Meh. I stand by eliminating the unreadable lurker/flake slot. Kind of a weird circumstance anyway.

No, she was p clearly flaking and we should have just let her be replaced

So does anybody object to Star?

- Dumber

[Dumb and Dumber]

Shouldn't my slot's corruption have changed if two healers targeted us?

-Dumbass

[Dumb and Dumber]

Shouldn't my slot's corruption have changed if two healers targeted us?

-Dumbass

Don't think negative corruption is possible, our corruption level didn't change n2 either
I'm slightly paranoid of catboi

- Dumber

[Dumb and Dumber]

I haven't done super much review but tbh not sure I see much reason to change my mind either ...
Star, why do you still think we're scum?

- Dumber

[Dumb and Dumber]

I literally have nothing going on this week, so I'll be around. Gotta do work stuff, but that's it. I need to gather together my thoughts on D&D.

Ya know, for someone who's going to be around this week, you've been remarkably absent

- dumber