Micro 960: A Year of Miccros II - Game Over

[Raven Branwen]

Hiya Skitter, Lillith. Good to see you guys again. I’m still not caught up but I agree with Skitter as far as being somewhat suspicious of the associative reads this early.

While at first I leaned town on duckling for seeming to advance the game forward, he does seem to be overdoing it a bit.

His read on my slot should be quite informative.

[Raven Branwen]

VOTE: Pooky

gotta start the bussing early

Scum doesn’t usually make this kind of post about a buddy, so I think they’re probably unaligned.

[Raven Branwen]

I think Koba is currently my most confident tl.

Re: Pooky/Aldus thing could still possibly be wifom I suppose so maybe that was premature? But still it’s unlikely scum hardbusses this early in a micro.

[Raven Branwen]

Does someone else have an opinion on duck/skitter that can maybe like, help unfog my brain

Well there’s Skitter’s obviously scummy play on D1 of Lunacy which you locktowned her for while wrongly believing you were scum there. I’m seriously hoping you wouldn’t have done that as town but because you wrongly thought you were scum in that, I have no meta in which to parse you. I like you bettter than yoir predecessor here, so at least that’s a start anyway.

My point being,if it’s not already obvious is that Skitter’s D1 play here is clearly different than in Lunacy, so I’m kind of baffled how she’s duckling‘s #1 sr here.

[Raven Branwen]

eh lunacy was weird and atypical. let's go with city!

But my point is that like Lillith, like me, you wrongly did think you were scum on that. It’s a lot easier for me to make meta reads on games I’ve actually been in and I’ve seen your scumplay twice and I think you tend to be a lot more aggro as scum and your play so far here, doesn’t look particularly agenda-y to me.

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p11944570

For anyone who missed that glorious awesome game.

[Raven Branwen]

what's the other game you have on scum!me?
i guess you don't have to answer that if you don't want to out your main but i'm not sure what the one prior to lunacy was

I’m not sure if I can reference it specifically without outing my main but we also “collaborated” in that game. *hint* *hint*

[Raven Branwen]

eh it was representative of my current capacity/tendencies as scum tho
idk if aggro is the right word either

If you still haven’t figured it out, you were hardpushing obvtown RCE in that.

[Raven Branwen]

I’m not sure if I can reference it specifically without outing my main but we also “collaborated” in that game. *hint* *hint*

right, that one.
that wasn't representative iirc

Well I guess my only examples of witnessing your scumplay firsthand aren’t representative then. I still don’t get duckling’s confidence on scum!you here. I’m trying to determine if he honestly convinced you’re lockscum here or he’s scum pushing you in bad faith.

[Raven Branwen]

raven, are you townreading me rn?
and if yes, is it largely cuz i'm different than lunacy?

I have a bit of a townlean on you. That as well as that other game. I think you did some scummy things in that other game that were similar to your D1 play in Lunacy. I already mentioned your bad RCE push for example.

[Raven Branwen]

Raven I have this sinking feeling like you're going to read me wrong this game.

I just don’t see how Skitter is your #1 sr. Okay, link me games where she played exactly like this then? Because there are better votes today. You must acknowledge at least that much. I think it’s a terrible idea to risk misexecuting Skitter, possibly you too but less confident on that. Maybe, because you sound so sincere but resigned. But then that could still be in your scumrange. It wouldn’t be the first time you’ve fooled me and you were super obvscum in Starcraft. I 100% would have voted you too if A50 wasn’t so terrified of the NK.

[Raven Branwen]

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... er_sort=Go

scum!skitter picking a fight with me over nothing (which she ADAMANTLY INSISTS is not within her scum m.o. lol).

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=150&t=81720
skitter reacting to epic big fights with a similar level of sincerity (i.e. it is within her scumrange); i also think her play here disrgearding the fight reactions in general has been along a similar path of trying to feel out the gamestate and react with what looks good rather than find scum.

Perhaps my tl is a bit premature but I don’t think so because she was kind of being a bit of a tryhard in both of those games and her reactions seemed a bit overblown. Plus, I’m pretty sure I’d be strongly tl you in both of those games. I had you as my #1 tr in TM in fact. You were so bleeding obvtown in that, I was really smdh that you got misexececuted.

At any rate, if she is town, she is good at solving so even if I’m less sure now. I still think she’s not a good vote for today.

[Raven Branwen]

@pooky
just re-stating: i have like no hesitance in saying skitter is probably the overall-best player active onsite rn, across both alignments. she's also not polarised (i.e. neither alignment is overwhelmingly better than the other, which is often the case for players at rand)

This in a nutshell is why she shouldn’t be today’s execution. Now if we were talking about say FL who is brilliant as scum but not so hot as town, I still wouldn’t want to vote him if I tl him but in contrast - if that Jingle game is any basis - he isn’t particularly likely to help solve the game.

[Raven Branwen]

@Lillith, not a lot, there’s like 80 pages. However, my top tr are Koba/SSand Datisi. Dats is kind of wooden as scum from the games of his I’ve read.

@Skitter, I don’t understand why you switched your vote to me. I referenced the only two games that I got to firsthand witness your scumgame and I really don’t see what you’re finding at all scummy about that. I think your play here looks different so far than in D1 of Lunacy and that other game we played, so you’re voting me makes 0 sense. And @Pooky, duckling was pushing her which why I said what I said but I think her vote on me is bad but I don’t know if I agree with tw’s conclusion. I think her jump on me makes no sense but she’s misread me before, so she’s not one of those players I expect to correctly read me. Lunacy was an obvious exception.

[Raven Branwen]

Duck, can you read raven’s posts and tell me what you think of them? And then repeat that but in the hypothetical scenario that skitter is town

I would like that to. I have a pretty good idea how town!duckling should read me here.

[Raven Branwen]

come on, really?
i made it p clearly like 30 pages ago or whatever that i didn't think pushing you was going to go to an elim
but that i didn't know where to vote otherwise, so just stayed on you
and you've been complaining that i haven't been sorting people or developing other reads

you can't then shade me for sorting people and developing other reads. like it's kinda ridiculous to expect you can argue it both ways

If duckling is your strongest sr, than you switching to me is making me start to question your read on him. Do you no longer sr him, because I find it a bit odd that you were so confident on him being scum, yet you just abandon that read on switch to me for something that I thoroughly explained.

I only have firsthand experience of how you play scum in two games, so I was basing it on that but when duckling posted those examples I realized my tl on you may be premature but I still think you sound more sincere here than you did in those games. I obviously could be wrong about that and it does look a bit to me like you possibly view me as a compromise execution. Would that be accurate? That could still be NIA however but definitely concerning, based on your previously stated strong conviction on tw scum.

[Raven Branwen]

oh i scumread him super super strongly, i'm just not particularly interested in forcing it through to an elim rn

i think ur present tl on me is premature and stronger than it ought to be given what you've actually read of the game, and reminds me of how scum tend to slap townreads on me cuz it's often the easiest way to deal with me

I disagree that my read on you is stronger than it ought to be. I’ve played 5 games with you tops, two of them you were playing your scumgame as I’ve seen it. You can’t in good faith honestly sr me for that. What do you see as inconsistent with your play in those two games and my read on you here?

I also said that A) it was a bit of a townlean. It’s not super strong like say Koba who is like super town and B) duckling’s examples have made me realize that it was in fact premature but again, what tf else would you have me base my read of you on, if not for games I’ve actually played with you? Still don’t see how you’re seeing that as even remotely scummy.

[Raven Branwen]

oh i scumread him super super strongly, i'm just not particularly interested in forcing it through to an elim rn

i think ur present tl on me is premature and stronger than it ought to be given what you've actually read of the game, and reminds me of how scum tend to slap townreads on me cuz it's often the easiest way to deal with me

I disagree that my read on you is stronger than it ought to be. I’ve played 5 games with you tops, two of them you were playing your scumgame as I’ve seen it. You can’t in good faith honestly sr me for that. What do you see as inconsistent with your play in those two games and my read on you here?

I also said that A) it was a bit of a townlean. It’s not super strong like say Koba who is like super town and B) duckling’s examples have made me realize that it was in fact premature but again, what tf else would you have me base my read of you on, if not for games I’ve actually played with you? Still don’t see how you’re seeing that as even remotely scummy.

I think it's weirder that you singled her out

Can you tell me why? Duckling has been pushing her from the getgo and I initially viewed that as suspicious but I’m liking him a bit better now. I also did think she was playing differently here than on D1 on Lunacy and the ither game where we were both scum. I probably wouldn’t have done that had duckling not been tunneling her, so I guess from my perspective it isn’t weird.

[Raven Branwen]

oh i scumread him super super strongly, i'm just not particularly interested in forcing it through to an elim rn

i think ur present tl on me is premature and stronger than it ought to be given what you've actually read of the game, and reminds me of how scum tend to slap townreads on me cuz it's often the easiest way to deal with me

I disagree that my read on you is stronger than it ought to be. I’ve played 5 games with you tops, two of them you were playing your scumgame as I’ve seen it. You can’t in good faith honestly sr me for that. What do you see as inconsistent with your play in those two games and my read on you here?

I also said that A) it was a bit of a townlean. It’s not super strong like say Koba who is like super town and B) duckling’s examples have made me realize that it was in fact premature but again, what tf else would you have me base my read of you on, if not for games I’ve actually played with you? Still don’t see how you’re seeing that as even remotely scummy.

i don't think our past history really has much to do with how i'm reading you here

the issue i'm taking is that you've admittedly read very little of this game, but are (were) talking to me like you think i'm town and i don't think you have the basis to make that determination yet, so it seems like you're coming in with an informed perspective

even if you're saying it's only a townlean, your other actions (defending me, talking to me like i'm town, trying to buddy me) make it seem like you're acting like it's stronger than that

i think there's a mismatch between your words and your actions

I stand by what I previously said. I think you’re a really bad choice for today’s execution for all of the reasons I’ve already given. If that’s how you see it, I don’t know what else to tell you?

Is your argument now that I’m claiming a super strong tr on you based off of those two games and you think I’m somehow being disingenuous by calling it only a townlean?

All of my D1 reads are leans. I very rarely have super strong read on D1, especially as you and Lillith have correctly stated that I haven’t fully read the game. Even Koba is still a super strong townlean for me. I won’t even try to claim actual reads before a few flips. Look a Lunacy for exampe. Have you firgotten how I suddenly became super focusee after Nahdia/Chara/Dru flips? Because it was then that all of the puzzle pieces started fitting together.

[Raven Branwen]

oh i scumread him super super strongly, i'm just not particularly interested in forcing it through to an elim rn

can you talk a bit more about this?

i don't want to force it if there isn't popular support for it, it would make things Unpleasant i think

While I am 100% resolved to keep the promise I made to you, I would be lying if I claimed that anyone trying to mislynch me in any game ever would be exactly a “pleasant” experience for anyone.

[Raven Branwen]

kind of what skitter said already. you admitted you haven't read much of the game but still have strong enough read on her to come in and defend her that strongly. also skitter wasn't at risk of being executed, like for all the pushing that duck has been doing, he wasn't even voting her at the time and no one else was

Alright, this is fair but 100% NIA for me. This isn’t the first time I’ve been wrongly accused of this. I frequently get called out for allegedly having tmis on slots I defend.

[Raven Branwen]

I think skitter is saying it's disingenuous for you to only call it a townlean but defend her like you've locktowned her

But I haven’t but I can see why she might read it that way. If you knew my main, you would know that this really is NIA for me. I’ve been literally accused of doing exactly this in dozens of games, most of which I was town in.

[Raven Branwen]

i think i'll have more support for it as time goes on

I disagree with that. His initial push on you looked a lot worse than it does now or do you dispute that?

[Raven Branwen]

isn't the point of a secret alt to not be able to use meta?

Yes. :/. I know I’m more likely to be mislynched but I get so fucking triggered when people make bad sr on me off of meta, I thought the trade off was worth it. Even if I get mislynched, I still think this because nothing is really worse than having your play labeled “toxic”, which is the main reason I do it.

[Raven Branwen]

Sorry guys, I wasn’t feeling well yesterday, still am , so I’ll try my best considering. @Skitter, if you think I’m scum based off my perfectly legit reasons for initially tl you. I’m not anymore btw and I was thinking about that all last night.

Lillith doesn’t know my main but YOU do as does duckling, SS and apparently Datisi if he’s corrrect. Any one of you can metacheck me to either vetify or debunk what I said to Lillith, which is that you are sr me for something that is 100% NAI.

[Raven Branwen]

Votecount 1.10

Alduskkel (3) -

PookyTheMagicalBear, dsjstr, Datisi

PookyTheMagicalBear (2) -

Alduskkel, Raven Branwen

skitter30 (1) -

the worst

Raven Branwen (1) -

skitter30

Not Voting (2) -

Something_Smart, lilith2013

With 9 players alive it takes 5 votes to eliminate.

The deadline for Day 1 is in (expired on 2020-08-11 09:20:00).

Something_Smart is V/LA until 8/10.

UNVOTE:

[Raven Branwen]

i hope you feel better soon!

and i still feel like ur initial tl on me was quite suspect, tbh

Ty but I honestly don’t see why because when I first repped into the game, I thought that duckling was like 78% scum, I don’t think that anymore because he has made a compelling case and since dialed down his push on you but hasn’t changed his vote to anyone else. I still think you sound more sincere here than in those two games he linked but then I remember that att, I locktown read you in tm.

I’m somewhat paranoid about your unwillingness to push tw, because it’s “unpleasant”. When do you think that it would ever be pleasant? And now you’re linking me and Alsus? Based on what exactly? What pings me is that you didn’t say you have independent reasons for sr us both but that you thought we were buddies, when you earlier posted that you were suspicious of all of the you/Aldus scumreads. how do you not see the obvious contradiction in doing that to me?

[Raven Branwen]

i also do want pooky to elaborate on why he thinks me/aldu associatives would look like this given how coalition went down

i think there's scum in the people pushing/leaning into this narrative
and i may or may not have been playing it up a bit to see what how the narrative around that associative would develop

This is why I’m no longer tl you.

[Raven Branwen]

i have independant reasons to sr both of you, and additionally i think that you have partner-y associatives, so i'm not sure what you're accusing me of there
furthermore i've elaborated on all of those things in the past few pages ^

and i don't know why tw *not* pushing me is town-indicative for him

Humour me, I want to hear more about these alleged “associatives” and how is that metacheck on me coming along?

[Raven Branwen]

i have independant reasons to sr both of you, and additionally i think that you have partner-y associatives, so i'm not sure what you're accusing me of there
furthermore i've elaborated on all of those things in the past few pages ^

and i don't know why tw *not* pushing me is town-indicative for him

Humour me, I want to hear more about these alleged “associatives” and how is that metacheck on me coming along?

Because unlike you, who seems to be doing everything possible to avoid voting him, he has stayed consistent and isn’t looking for other wagons to push because it’s “unpleasant”.

[Raven Branwen]

The main reason I tl you was because you called our the you/Aldus associatives as scummy. On D1 in Lunacy, when you wrongly thought you were scum. you kept pushing the me/Nahdia are a scumteam thing, so it reads to me like you could be doing that again here.

[Raven Branwen]

The main reason I tl you was because you called our the you/Aldus associatives as scummy. On D1 in Lunacy, when you wrongly thought you were scum. you kept pushing the me/Nahdia are a scumteam thing, so it reads to me like you could be doing that again here.

Also, it highlights the difference between you and Lillith who looks as though she’s genuinely trying to sort me. Her play is very different here than it was on D1 in Lunacy when you both thought you were scum but your play here is looking similar, except I know I’m not scum here, so I’m trying to make some sense of this. Are you confibiasing me and deathtunnelling me like you did in that game we argued about in our Lunacy PT or scum making a bad faith push. I still don’t know but your only reason for pushing me is that you found my initial tl on you suspicious but you can easily verify whether or not that read is valid or not and whether what I said to Lillith is true or not, so why aren’t you doing that?

[Raven Branwen]

sorry, I'm not following the logic between those two statements. Can you explain what the difference is

In Lunacy, she kept pushing that me/Nahdia buddy thing, so her calling doing that with her/Aldus as scummy, read townie to me because without flips, that sort of thing reads to me like chainsawing but now she’s literally doing the exact same thing to me that she earlier considered scummy when it was being done to her. I don’t understand how she doesn’t see how that looks scummy and she has literally given no other reason for sr me than something that is easily verifiable as 100% NAI for me, if she actually bothered to metacheck me.

[Raven Branwen]

- i think he has partner-equity with raven (i do prefer raven over aldu)
- i've been waiting for a while for like ~content~ which hasn't happened
- he feels like he's flailing rn
- his reads are Disappointing
- don't like his sudden turn onto tw

Yes you THINK this but WHY do you think this? You thinking something isn’t a case, when you don’t bother to explain it.

[Raven Branwen]

Humour me, I want to hear more about these alleged “associatives” and how is that metacheck on me coming along?

2196

and again this isn't a meta-based read, it's based on what you've done this game, and i don't think the meta you're citing is relevant, so i'm not planning on checking it

And how tf is it NOT relevant, when you claim it’s your ONLY reason for sr me? I’d say if that is your sole reason for sr me, then it’s pretty fucking relevant!

[Raven Branwen]

Also, it highlights the difference between you and Lillith who looks as though she’s genuinely trying to sort me.

isn't she agreeing with me that she thinks the things i'm calling out as scummy are scummy? i don't get it

Her reaction isn’t overblown and reasonble and you’re literally ignoring what proves your sole reasoning for pushing me is bs.

[Raven Branwen]

i mean are you trying to argue that i'm partnered with aldu? otherwise i don't know what you're trying to say in 2246

I have no idea. I think if it’s possible based on Lunacy but I find you pushing me this hard is disingenuous because mislynching me wouldn’t hurt you if you’re scum but you obviously can’t risk mislynching tw. Tell me I’m wrong, or I will vote you.

[Raven Branwen]

because, again, it's based on your actions in this game, and how your read on me has shifted.

- started with a minor townlean despite admitting to not reading the game (scummy, irregardless of prior meta)
- talking to me like you think i'm town and defending me. i'm aware that you tend to defend townreads with tmi etc etc etc. that doesn't change the fact that your townread is basically unfounded and isn't backed up by anything. given that context, defending me is strange there. like the point isn't that you were defending me. the point is that you were defending me while you admitted that you didn't have enough context to actually develop a read of that strength on me.
- upon me calling you out on it, the townread vanishes

That is patently false and also once again not scum indicative for me. I think you are afraid to push tw because you know he’s town and you’re pushing me to avoid that 1v1. And you linking me with Aldus, which you have yet to give a single reason for is also bs.

VOTE: Skitter

Fine, let’s go 1v1.

[Raven Branwen]

i really don't understand what you're accusing me of here, so i can't exactly acquiesce with that request

You are trying to push a mislynch on me because you can’t risk it with duckling. You can always later claim you misread me but you can’t do that with duckling.

[Raven Branwen]

You are trying to push a mislynch on me because you can’t risk it with duckling. You can always later claim you misread me but you can’t do that with duckling.

you realize that if i were scum scared of pushing a mislynch on tw .... i just don't pick a fight with him?

I think you’ve be voting him here instead of me, if you were town here. I find your progression on him super weird. And you’re pushing me so that you can hopefully get a free mislynch through. Yes, that is exactly how it looks like because you have given no reason for sr me other than I initially tl’d you which I’ve already explained ad nauseum. You refuse to metacheck me which would prove that what I said to Lillith is true. You haven’t explained how me and Aldus are linked, only that you THINK this. Am I missing something?

[Raven Branwen]

You picked a fight with obvtown RCE in that game we were both scum in. Wtf are you even talking about?

[Raven Branwen]

Skitter, are you no longer scumreading duck?

i am but i feel like it's lower priority rn

[Raven Branwen]

oh i scumread him super super strongly, i'm just not particularly interested in forcing it through to an elim rn

i think ur present tl on me is premature and stronger than it ought to be given what you've actually read of the game, and reminds me of how scum tend to slap townreads on me cuz it's often the easiest way to deal with me

[Raven Branwen]

oh i scumread him super super strongly, i'm just not particularly interested in forcing it through to an elim rn

can you talk a bit more about this?

i don't want to force it if there isn't popular support for it, it would make things Unpleasant i think

[Raven Branwen]

oh i scumread him super super strongly, i'm just not particularly interested in forcing it through to an elim rn

can you talk a bit more about this?

i don't want to force it if there isn't popular support for it, it would make things Unpleasant i think

Worth noting, there isn’t any popular support for a wagon on me either but my mislynch just wouldn’t make you look bad and that is the only difference. You just don’t want to vote duckling, how much more obvious can you make it?

[Raven Branwen]

And you’re pushing me so that you can hopefully get a free mislynch through. Yes, that is exactly how it looks like because you have given no reason for sr me other than I initially tl’d you which I’ve already explained ad nauseum. You refuse to metacheck me which would prove that what I said to Lillith is true. You haven’t explained how me and Aldus are linked, only that you THINK this. Am I missing something?

- if i'm trying to get an easy mislynch why am i not voting aldu (this narrative would at least make sense if you're pushign me as partners with aldu, which you're declining to do)
- i think the reason i gave to sr you is p strong tbh. you haven't really refuted it either. the meta you're bringing up doesn't address the main points
- i gave reasons to explain the you/aldu thing. of course it comes down to what i think, that's how reads are formed. the fact that you're ignoring the reasons i gave doesn't mean taht i didn't adequately explain the associative

I already explained that my main reason for initially tl you was that you called associatives on you/Aldus scummy because that’s read to me the opposite of what you did in Lunacy on D1, so no. I don’t look for associatives until I actually see a scumflip and you 100% should know that about me. If I hardpushed you/Aldus as the scumteam - pre-scumflips, you should definitely view that as a scumclaim from me. That is my point and has been my point, I find that sort of thing highly suspicious without imo an extremely valid reason.

[Raven Branwen]

Why do you think I keep pushing the meta thing? Because if you’d actually bother to do that, you’d find your answers - literally. So, I can’t for the life of me understand why town!you won’t even look that up. You obviously clearly believe what I said to Lillith was true because you haven’t debunked it but what main points? If you’re town, then you have misunderstood me and you would actually KNOW that if you actually did the goddamned check.

[Raven Branwen]

This is so extremely frustrating. How many more times do I need to explain this? @Lillith, what do you think I haven’t made clear? Can you pinpoint it specifically because I’m at a dead loss to explain it any better.

[Raven Branwen]

i hope you feel better soon!

and i still feel like ur initial tl on me was quite suspect, tbh

Ty but I honestly don’t see why because when I first repped into the game, I thought that duckling was like 78% scum, I don’t think that anymore because

he has made a compelling case and since dialed down his push on you but hasn’t changed his vote to anyone else.

I still think you sound more sincere here than in those two games he linked but then I remember that att, I locktown read you in tm.

I’m somewhat paranoid about your unwillingness to push tw, because it’s “unpleasant”. When do you think that it would ever be pleasant? And now you’re linking me and Alsus? Based on what exactly? What pings me is that you didn’t say you have independent reasons for sr us both but that you thought we were buddies, when you earlier posted that you were suspicious of all of the you/Aldus scumreads. how do you not see the obvious contradiction in doing that to me?

Raven, can you explain why the bolded makes duck town? what about it is town indicative to you?

He cited examples of scum!Skitter’s play in two games that was very different than what I know of her scum meta. Because she doesn’t want to vote him for some reason which makes 0 sense to me. I don’t know anymore, I just know that she’s pushing a mislynch on me for bad reasons but I guess she could just be wrong town doing it too. She literally did the exact same thing to me in that game we fought about in our Lunacy PT. Her push on me is wrongheaded but I can’t ignore the obvious sincerity behind it. Sorry Skitter. :/

UNVOTE:

[Raven Branwen]

Does someone else have an opinion on duck/skitter that can maybe like, help unfog my brain

Well there’s Skitter’s obviously scummy play on D1 of Lunacy which you locktowned her for while wrongly believing you were scum there.

can you explain what about her play in Lunacy was obvscum?

pedit: oh

No offence @Lillith but is this a serious question? You know we both got a wwrole PM and strategized as buddies in that and we agreed that our only hope of possibly winning that was to hard distance each other. It was she who told me to vote her. I was super nervous because I’ve literally never done that before as a gambit but I was sure I’d be viewed as a townlock after she flipped.

To be more specific, she couldn’t seem to make up her mind whether or not me and Nahdia were buddies/ TvS and didn’t automatically decide she’d be wrong in case Nahdia flipped scum which we now of course know she did. That was actually one of the reasons I had so much difficulty correctly sr Dunn because I too thought her entrance in that game looked fake and in one of the examples duckling referenced, she literally did the exact same things with the exclamation marks.

Obviously she wasn’t obvscum by D2, her play did a complete 180 and was super townie but the point is on D1, she honestly believed she was playing her scumgame as did I. Speaking of, do you honestly think I’m playing even remotely similar here to how I played in Lunacy on D1? If Skitter is town then duck is either confibiased or scum. Like I said, when I repped in I sr his initial push on her but I think he believes his Skitter case is valid. I don’t have strong reads on D1 until I see flips, which is why it was super easy to form them on Ds 2 and 3 of Lunacy. I’m sorry for being so useless here but that doesn’t make me scum and I will literally prove that once we get some more flips.

[Raven Branwen]

i hope you feel better soon!

and i still feel like ur initial tl on me was quite suspect, tbh

Ty but I honestly don’t see why because when I first repped into the game, I thought that duckling was like 78% scum, I don’t think that anymore because

he has made a compelling case and since dialed down his push on you but hasn’t changed his vote to anyone else.

I still think you sound more sincere here than in those two games he linked but then I remember that att, I locktown read you in tm.

I’m somewhat paranoid about your unwillingness to push tw, because it’s “unpleasant”. When do you think that it would ever be pleasant? And now you’re linking me and Alsus? Based on what exactly? What pings me is that you didn’t say you have independent reasons for sr us both but that you thought we were buddies, when you earlier posted that you were suspicious of all of the you/Aldus scumreads. how do you not see the obvious contradiction in doing that to me?

Raven, can you explain why the bolded makes duck town? what about it is town indicative to you?

He cited examples of scum!Skitter’s play in two games that was very different than what I know of her scum meta. Because she doesn’t want to vote him for some reason which makes 0 sense to me. I don’t know anymore, I just know that she’s pushing a mislynch on me for bad reasons but I guess she could just be wrong town doing it too. She literally did the exact same thing to me in that game we fought about in our Lunacy PT. Her push on me is wrongheaded but I can’t ignore the obvious sincerity behind it. Sorry Skitter. :/

UNVOTE:

sorry, I don't feel like this really answered my question, which was why duck pushing skitt less and still voting her is towny to you?

I guess because initially it looked to me that his push came our of nowhere and it lookee kind of forced to me, so when he backed off, it looked like what he would do as town because in Starcraft he went straight from hard driving my mislynch to outright buddying me, so if he suddenly started doing that to Skitter, I would then probably sr him for that. And in Starcraft, his reasons for pushing me unlike Skitter were beyond ludicrous. Here he gave valid reasons, so I’m still not sure but I don’t want Skitter to be executed today, because he might be wrong. I have been fooled by wrong tonal reads before but I can’t in good faith vote her today even if it means I die, which I obviously hope doesn’t happen.

[Raven Branwen]

skitt, can you talk about what your read on bugspray was through the game?

Townie
Part of the read was cuz you werent scumreading him, and i wasnt thinking about it too much

Then raven repped in and i think she's actively scummy

You thought too in that game we fought about, remember? You were constantly pushing me in that but I was town in that too.

[Raven Branwen]

i really don't get the point of using an alt in order to avoid people making ""bad"" meta reads on you, but then constantly talking about meta *and* telling people to meta check you

I got called “toxic” in a game recently because a player lock scumread me based on completing misconstruing my meta and I didn’t exactly handle it too well. Because it’s literally the only way I can prove Skitter’s reasoning for sr me is NAI. Skitter, SS, duckling, you apparently all can check my meta. If your point is playing under a secret alt allows me some degree of control how my meta is read, I won’t deny that but you know what, since I’ve been doing that what literally happened to me in two games - I was wrongly lock scumread based on bad meta reads hasn’t happened and as I said earlier, I’d much rather be mislynched than called “toxic”.

[Raven Branwen]

@dsjstr would also like reads from you please

I'm fairly certain it is Aldu/skit, they try to get a miselim today we probably go back to aldu tomorrow, since Aldu town read me and skit you will miselim me d3 and skit tries to get another miselim d4 to win.

This however is what prompted me to unvote Skitter. Too many people are pushing this narrative which means it’s probably wrong. That the scumteam is very unlikely to be Aldus/Skitter.

[Raven Branwen]

@dsjstr would also like reads from you please

I'm fairly certain it is Aldu/skit, they try to get a miselim today we probably go back to aldu tomorrow, since Aldu town read me and skit you will miselim me d3 and skit tries to get another miselim d4 to win.

This however is what prompted me to unvote Skitter. Too many people are pushing this narrative which means it’s probably wrong. That the scumteam is very unlikely to be Aldus/Skitter.

I’ve played enough games to realize that it’s rarely that easy and since she had good takes in Lunacy, I think it would be a really bad idea to risk it if we’re wrong.

[Raven Branwen]

it doesn't help to be patronizing towards me..

How was I doing that? You know she thought she was scum in Lunacy on D1 right, so the question struck me as funny but I meant no disrespect.

[Raven Branwen]

Does someone else have an opinion on duck/skitter that can maybe like, help unfog my brain

Well there’s Skitter’s obviously scummy play on D1 of Lunacy which you locktowned her for while wrongly believing you were scum there. I’m seriously hoping you wouldn’t have done that as town but because you wrongly thought you were scum in that, I have no meta in which to parse you. I like you bettter than yoir predecessor here, so at least that’s a start anyway.

My point being,if it’s not already obvious is that Skitter’s D1 play here is clearly different than in Lunacy, so I’m kind of baffled how she’s duckling‘s #1 sr here.

"I hope you didn't actually townread skitter"
"no offense but it was so obvious she was scum. you're not actually asking why she was scummy, right?"
yeah. I read those as patronizing.

Again sorry, I honestly meant no disrespect.

[Raven Branwen]

I guess because initially it looked to me that his push came our of nowhere and it lookee kind of forced to me, so when he backed off, it looked like what he would do as town because in Starcraft he went straight from hard driving my mislynch to outright buddying me, so if he suddenly started doing that to Skitter, I would then probably sr him for that. And in Starcraft, his reasons for pushing me unlike Skitter were beyond ludicrous. Here he gave valid reasons, so I’m still not sure but I don’t want Skitter to be executed today, because he might be wrong. I have been fooled by wrong tonal reads before but I can’t in good faith vote her today even if it means I die, which I obviously hope doesn’t happen.

so you're townreading duck.. because he didn't do

exactly

the same thing that he did as scum in another game? that like, assumes that players always behave exactly the same as scum which I don't agree with whatsoever.

It would really help me a lot if he gave a read on me, then I would really have a confident read on him, one way or another.

Yes, that’s definitely possible. I think it was his “I’m afraid you’re reading me wrong” thing that made me lean towards that but I suppose it would be naive of me to 100% rule out a possible pocket. Hell, I was pocketed by flaming obvscum!Dunn in Lunacy, which is why getting his read on me is so super important, because I know how town!him would answer.

[Raven Branwen]

should I read this lunacy thing

i really find it hard to follow what you are all saying about that game

Well first thing is the title was apt. Town all thought they were scum on D1 because we all got werewolf role PMs and poor Lillith and Starbuck were mislead in thinking their hood partners were the same faction, except for the informed minority, mafiosos - the real scum. It’s a fun read anyhow.

[Raven Branwen]

I’m sorry guys I’m still not feeling well and haven’t done any morz reading today or yesterday, so if anyone is waiting on that, then we have to extend the day because it won’t be happening until I feel better, sorry.

[Raven Branwen]

<3

Still feeling super nauseous but I’ll try to force myself not to be useless. It’s kind of ironic how many parallels this game has to the game me and Skitter fought about in Lunacy. I had trouble getting into that game because I was literally super nauseous for days and she deathtunnelled me throughout the game. The obvious question mark for me is obviously her alignment and the difference is that as a result of Lunacy we’re on good terms outside of the game.

Other than her unwillingness to push duckling despite repeatedly shading him, I still can’t figure out why she would link me to Aldus, when other people are doing that to her, especially when she claimed not to like it. It’s frustrating to me in any case because she has yet to provide even a single reason to think we’re linked in any way. That is the part that makes the least amount of sense to me, even more than her inexplicable refusal to push duckling. So without doing any further reads’ catchup, that’s where I am rn. I do think it’s weird how eager Aldus is trying to get himself executed. Is he usually an anti-survivalist player in general? Does anyone know? I really don’t have a clue what to make of that.

[Raven Branwen]

maybe we should wait for him to come back before hammering

I’m fine with whatever, if we think we will get some new info or insights particularly on Aldus/dsjstr then great, because I currently have no read on either. I did ISO both of them before I started feeling so nauseous and still have no idea how to read either one and I don’t know if either one will become more readable as the game progresses.

However, wrt SS, if the following is any indication:

I hope you know I'm only booing because this game needs way more SS (and probably way less me). you're supposed to carry us to victory with logic and rationality etc etc

But not on day 1!

Waiting for him probably won’t change anything.

[Raven Branwen]

^

<3

I think Aldus looks worse but he’s putting in more effort but I have no meta on either. I did manage to skim through coalition and have a slight tl on Pooky if that helps any.

[Raven Branwen]

@dsjstr would also like reads from you please

I'm fairly certain it is Aldu/skit, they try to get a miselim today we probably go back to aldu tomorrow, since Aldu town read me and skit you will miselim me d3 and skit tries to get another miselim d4 to win.

Following the meta reads that people have because there are a ton, and knowing that two people will be lying that was the team I concluded on and the actions that they have done today make me believe that what I said earlier is their plan.

Actually he has put in quite a bit of effort but how can anyone be that certain of anything - particularly who both scum are on D1? The only times I’ve ever this certain and almost never on an entire team would be when the player clearly scumtold, which has happened in a few games but that isn’t the case here.

[Raven Branwen]

Raven if you're feeling well enough can you explain your TL on Pooky?

Yes, he is playing quite differently here than it that game and I also spectated him in another game, where he was town. Basically he sounded kind of fake and disconnected in Coalition as compared to here. You don’t think so?

Can you explain your djstr read? He seems to be locked on you/Skitter as the scumteam, yet he’s one of your strongest trs, can you explain to me why?

Also why is SS so low, even if SS hasn’t done anything AI so far, don’t you think Koba should at the very least have him at a null?

[Raven Branwen]

I know people are gonna be like haha Alduscum is just distancing but if/when I flip green please keep a close eye on skitter. I think town would be concerned that they're being seen as a scumbuddy to one of their scumreads, but skitter knows I'll flip green so she's like "eh, doesn't matter."

oh boy, earlier i was getting flak for protesting the me/aldu associative that people were bandying about, and now i'm getting flak for *not* protesting the me/aldu assocative that people are bandying about

aldu, this doesn't even make sense given how i responded earlier to the me/you thing ?

and i still think raven is scum but i don't think that i have the support just now to push it thorugh, and i also think that you're scum, so i'm fine with ending it on you now

I really wish you’d stop pushing him/me together, it isn’t helping me to tr you. Do you not see why this contradiction looks bad?

[Raven Branwen]

friendly reminder: what ever tbg is probably towbn.

??? What?

[Raven Branwen]

I don’t know what to think but everytime Skitter keeps pushing a me/Aldus scumteam, it makes my spidy senses stand on end. I thought it was scummy that Aldus was so okay with dying but now that he isn’t, I don’t know anymore.

[Raven Branwen]

I really wish you’d stop pushing him/me together, it isn’t helping me to tr you. Do you not see why this contradiction looks bad?

ok but you look aligned to me, and i think that the push on me/aldu is silly
i don't see a contradiction

tw i don't know what you're trying to say

I have never pushed you and Aldus together. The contradiction is you finding that scummy but still doing that to me, when there has been 0 flips. That’s why I tr Lillith and Datisi and duckling over you specifically because of that because you pushing us together while still apparently sr duckling looks like chainsawing to me. I like you tonally but I don’t know if that should outweigh that. If you were in my position, would you honestly be tr you for that?

[Raven Branwen]

sorry: dsjstr is probably town.

Can you explain your dsjtr read for me? Well do you think this is scum theatre we’re seeing then? I don’t know what to make of it.

[Raven Branwen]

skitter, this just seems like you're settling for LHF (me). This is twice now that you're basically sidelining your previous suspicion (the worst, now Raven) to move to a new target. It's not like all 3 of us are scum. I also don't see how you progressed from having trouble reading me to now being totally comfortable with my elimination.

And again you say you're fine ending it on me "now" but you're still not voting me.

Raven if you're feeling well enough can you explain your TL on Pooky?

Yes, he is playing quite differently here than it that game and I also spectated him in another game, where he was town. Basically he sounded kind of fake and disconnected in Coalition as compared to here. You don’t think so?

Can you explain your djstr read? He seems to be locked on you/Skitter as the scumteam, yet he’s one of your strongest trs, can you explain to me why?

Also why is SS so low, even if SS hasn’t done anything AI so far, don’t you think Koba should at the very least have him at a null?

I think a lot of his reasoning in this game sounds just as fake.

As for dsj, I don't see dsj-scum as trying to sell the idea that DC vs Koba was SvS. That doesn't make sense at all. I also think if dsj were scum then it'd be more... obvious? He seems fairly transparent in how he's thinking. Even if he's wrong about me, I can see the thought process behind his scumhunting.

I don't know what you mean about SS, because I do have him as null.

I thought you had him as a scumlean, thanks for clarifying then. My only hesitation with Skitter is would she deliberately act this scummy right next to deadline or could she possibly be faking me out and baiting me? Her play here is so super weird I can’t make sense of it. But then she apparently has quite a large scumrange. I dunno. You keep sounding better and she keeps sounding worse but that seriously confuses me. *sigh*.

@Lillith, @Datisi, @duckling, @Pooky, what do you guys all think?

[Raven Branwen]

in the moment i'm not like, struck that this is scum theatre, unless it's like very decisively planned
i think skitter is scummer tan aldus in isolation
i was doing legwork and ike fuheefhe i don't think dsj is scum


:shrug:

I agree but her play rn isn’t really making sense as either alignment. It’s almost as if she’s trying to get herself executed? Maybe I’m overthinking this. My head hurts on top of my nausea. I will vote with the majority to prevent a no lynch but it’s looking like it’s between Aldus and Skitter rn.

[Raven Branwen]

scum are more likely to be in my "oh god oh fuck i don't know"

good scum are more likely to intentionally make themselves a headfuck to read so they can slide into an endgaming position, ya

Will, if we had to vote rn for who is hands down the biggest headfuck, I’d obviously have to vote Skitter, because Aldus is making way more sense.

[Raven Branwen]

like
2378 strikes me as so Fake As Fuck
but i ain't ever in my life call out scum theatre successfully and i sure as fuck ain't starting now
actually maybe like once but it was like a year ago

Well both you and Pooky were in that game, him as a buddy and you as a mod, so I obviously trust your Aldus read over mine. But would scum!Aldus push town!Skittter here, knowing he’s next? I think my brain is beginning to turn into a pretzel. I’m just going to sheep you and Lillith on this because I’m just going in circles now. Duckling is convinced djstr is town and Aldus does as well. What bugs me is that Skitter insists on pushing both me and Aldus together while still hard sr duckling and Aldus’ point that all three of us can’t be scum makes way more sense than what she’s arguing. I just really don’t want to be wrong.

[Raven Branwen]

I have never pushed you and Aldus together. The contradiction is you finding that scummy but still doing that to me, when there has been 0 flips. That’s why I tr Lillith and Datisi and duckling over you specifically because of that because you pushing us together while still apparently sr duckling looks like chainsawing to me. I like you tonally but I don’t know if that should outweigh that. If you were in my position, would you honestly be tr you for that?

i didn't say you pushed me/aldu, but like 5 other people have
i think me/aldu is patently ridiculous, and i explained why at length
i also think that aldu's interactions with you are partner-y

it's not like i said 'all partner reads are scummy', so i'm kinda baffled that you're reading this as a contradiction

i don't think that aldu's read on me here really follows any sort of natural progression beyond 'welp a lot of people want to vote me and we're getting near end-of-day so let me manufacture a sr on someone who's under a lot of suspicion, who i'd been defending until she said she was willing to vote me to end the day'

I think a me/Aldus partner read is insane and I really don’t understand why you think I should tr you here for deathtunnelling me, pushing me together with Aldus and refusing to vote duckling? I think it reads patently dishonest of you to mischaracterize this as an omgus. If you were only just voting me/had me in your PoE, weren’t pushing me together with Aldus when there - I’ll say this again - have been 0 freaking flips!. were not still hard sr duckling but refusing to vote him, no I 100% would not have voted you or even be considering it now but I hones don’t know why you think I should be tr you for any of this? Would you be honestly if the situations were reversed?

Fmpov, it reads like you’re chainsawing. Whatever your alignment, seriously how are you not seeing this? I haven’t voted for either of you yet because I honestly have no clue who to vote for. Don’t you think scum!me would already be voting you? That’s precisely what has me so tied up in knots. You expect me not to vote you without giving me a single reason not to and I’m seriously trying to sort you but you aren’t doing a goodamned thing to help make this any easier.

[Raven Branwen]

hi and raven's positioning on me on this page is sus as hell also ?

Are you trying to get me to vote you? All I know is your posts are making my head hurt and I want it to stop. :/

[Raven Branwen]

Are you trying to get me to vote you? All I know is your posts are making my head hurt and I want it to stop. :/

you're p clearly ramping up towards that, yeah

and the people who are voting me (or are indicating they're about to) are incidentally the people i'm scumreading so like ...

No, you’d be very wrong about that. What I’d really really like is if you’re town to throw me some kind of bone, because you are giving me every reason rn to vote you and I honestly don’t know what to do. I definitely don’t want to mislynch you here but I know your read on me is wrong. I’m hesitating because i know I get pocketed way too easy and that’s seriously concerning me, that might be happening, because scum know what a super easy pocket I am. Like how did I not see Dunn’s claiming to invest me as not a blatant scumtell?

[Raven Branwen]

I think a me/Aldus partner read is insane and I really don’t understand why you think I should tr you here for deathtunnelling me, pushing me together with Aldus and refusing to vote duckling? I think it reads patently dishonest of you to mischaracterize this as an omgus. If you were only just voting me/had me in your PoE, weren’t pushing me together with Aldus when there - I’ll say this again - have been 0 freaking flips!. were not still hard sr duckling but refusing to vote him, no I 100% would not have voted you or even be considering it now but I hones don’t know why you think I should be tr you for any of this? Would you be honestly if the situations were reversed?

as soon as i called out a read on you, aldu's interactions with me changed:

he was willing to vote tw when that *had not* happened before, despite me pushing it forever, which basically read to me like he wanted to redirect me off of you and back onto tw?

the timing is incredibly suspect, no? he utterly refused tw but as soon as i said i was sus of you his townread on me magically strengthened and whe was willing to vote tw

like, from my pov, how ought i be reading that?

this is not omgus (i don't even know where omgus came into this ?)

Because you don’t see why I wouldn’t be tr someone who’s deathtunnelling me, so you think Aldus’ switch on you somehow makes ME look independently scummy? I know you’re not actually saying this obviously but I don’t see why his behaviour - considering he’s - shall I say this for the gazillionth time, UNflipped - has jack to do with me.

[Raven Branwen]

k

i would for obvious reasons vastly prefer if u stayed on aldu (and/or were willing to vote raven)

How are you still sr me? How?

[Raven Branwen]

No, you’d be very wrong about that. What I’d really really like is if you’re town to throw me some kind of bone, because you are giving me every reason rn to vote you and I honestly don’t know what to do. I definitely don’t want to mislynch you here but I know your read on me is wrong. I’m hesitating because i know I get pocketed way too easy and that’s seriously concerning me, that might be happening, because scum know what a super easy pocket I am. Like how did I not see Dunn’s claiming to invest me as not a blatant scumtell?

i mean i don't know what you want from me.
i'm not going to change my reads to assauge you or to make you feel better about me

i think you/aldu are partners
i think if you two aren't literally svs aldu is proabalby scum anyways
if it isn't aldu/raven i think there's a very strong chance tw is town

i tr everyone else i think

Dafuq? Am I reading this right? I’m just going to wait on Datisi/Lillith. My brain is turning into swiss cheese and the nausea on top of that isn’t helping any.

So, who is scum then? It’s weird to me that you sound like you believe what you’re saying yet it’s not making any sense to me. It’s not deadline yet, so I’m not going to rush this.

[Raven Branwen]

Because you don’t see why I wouldn’t be tr someone who’s deathtunnelling me, so you think Aldus’ switch on you somehow makes ME look independently scummy? I know you’re not actually saying this obviously but I don’t see why his behaviour - considering he’s - shall I say this for the gazillionth time, UNflipped - has jack to do with me.

no, i was independantly scumreading you, and then aldu's positioning around that makes me think he's aligned with you

the aldu scumread came after the you scumread, it's p clear, and is linked to the timing of him being willing to vote tw when i started pushing you

like the way you're framing it is wrong and it didn't actually happen the way you're insinuating in this post

Are you possibly actually just misunderstanding me then? I damn well know it didn’t happen like that. I deliberately framed my post this way to point out the obvious - which is that your increasingly confidence on scum!me seems to be tied to Aldus’ actions and not mine. I’m starting to wonder if you have just been misreading a lot of my posts because I think I made this one super obvious?

[Raven Branwen]

really????? what changed

well i think raven is scumy
as i try to drum up support there, aldu is suddenly willing to entertain tw (even though i've been talking about this for irl days at this point, and he's been hesitant), while being paranoid at me

liek all his posts on this page look like trying to position around a buddy who's under fire

this is what the aldu/raven thing boils down to ^

Again, nothing I say or do has goddamned thing to do with Aldus ffs! Christ.

[Raven Branwen]

what happens is aldus flips green tho

Yeah, I don’t want to vote wrong and it seems that everyone save Skitter is seeing this.

[Raven Branwen]

i mean, i explained p clearly why i dropped the tw thing and went to raven, and then you, and it was largely cuz you had some p strong associatives with someone i was scumreading; you reacted to my raven push kinda exactly like i'd expect a partner to react

and calling that out is what prompted you to drop your townread of me, so from my pov it kinda looks like i was right

The timing with your raven push was coincidental, because prior to that I was focusing on catching up with the thread. (And then some additional time passed where I was planning on isoing TW but kept putting it off because his iso is long and then I ended up not really doing it so I instead just asked you about it.)

I started to drop my townread of you because your push onto Raven coincided with your sudden disinterest in TW.

as soon as i called out a read on you, aldu's interactions with me changed:

he was willing to vote tw when that *had not* happened before, despite me pushing it forever, which basically read to me like he wanted to redirect me off of you and back onto tw?

the timing is incredibly suspect, no? he utterly refused tw but as soon as i said i was sus of you his townread on me magically strengthened and whe was willing to vote tw

like, from my pov, how ought i be reading that?

this is not omgus (i don't even know where omgus came into this ?)

And honestly I think this is a misrepresentation.

I wasn't "willing to vote TW," as I've forced skitter to admit, and my townread didn't "magically strengthen" on skitter. Like, it didn't strengthen at all.

Yeah, I think it was the exact opposite in fact. You were suspicious of her sr duckling but switching to me iirc? And that is one of the things that was eating at me too that she was hard sr duckling but being unwilling to vote him but now she claims to be tr him, so my brain - or literally what’s left of it is beyond confused by everything she’s saying now.

[Raven Branwen]

I want to wait for Lillith, since she said she didn’t want to rush this.

intent to hammer

whenever

[Raven Branwen]

oh god I am incredibly hungover D:

I still want to wait for SS to come back..? Also I’m still trying to decide whether I’m scumreading raven or I just don’t like her posting style, because some of the same things from Lunacy are bothering me I think

Please don’t hammer yet. I need time for my brain to start functioning

What is even remotely scummy about my posting style? Don’t you think if I was actually scum here, I would have already hammered? *smdh*.

[Raven Branwen]

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... B%5D=34286

Here Lillith, Skitter. this is my scumgame. Do you think I sound anything even close to that here?

[Raven Branwen]

I have to say Lillith, that posting style thing really super triggers me. Not that I’m actually in love with any of Skitter’s reasons for doubting me but at least that doesn’t hurt my feelings. I just find it super unfair for you to keep picking on me for that. For whatever reason you are prejudiced against my posting style and I don’t think that’s okay. If you’re going to do this to me in every single game, it will be super unfun playing with you.

[Raven Branwen]

Honestly the more I read your posts the angrier I become because you’re making me out to be some kind of villain when the reason I even brought this up is because I’m trying to be fair to you as a player.

It just really triggers me that you mention my posting style in general. I obviously don’t think you have bad intentions or you’re being mean in any sense of the word, so maybe it’s combination of the particular phrasing you selected plus you practically deathtunnelling me for literally pages in Lunacy, specifically because of my posting style, so it was like please not again sort of thing. Yes. I was extremely bothered by that, I probably should have told you that at the time. I just find it really hard not to take that personally regardless of intent, if that makes any sense? I’m also still not feeding well because I forgot to order my meals and haven’t been eating properly since Monday but I managed to do it in time, so I should be feeling a lot better after Monday.

[Raven Branwen]

What is even remotely scummy about my posting style? Don’t you think if I was actually scum here, I would have already hammered? *smdh*.

not if you're scum with aldu ...

So what would you have me do then? You did see where I posted my intent to hammer right but Lillith asked me to wait.

[Raven Branwen]

I want to wait for Lillith, since she said she didn’t want to rush this.

intent to hammer

whenever

@Skitter

[Raven Branwen]

i don't think you said anything out of line, lilith

It isn’t out of line but that doesn’t mean that I am wrong to take being sr for my posting style in general, personally. I can’t help it if that triggers me because it does but she is saying she doesn’t want to do that right? so I might have misinterpreted that but yeah I will never react well to ever being sr for my posting style in any game ever. It actually upsets me more than bad meta reads except I get hurt more than angry over it.

[Raven Branwen]

I think you are overexaggerating my behavior, I don’t feel like I’ve picked on you at all or been “prejudiced,” all of my posting has been game-oriented and I’m not

doing

anything on purpose.

I probably wouldn’t have reacted that strongly if it weren’t for Lunacy. Obviously if I remove Lunacy from the equation, my reaction would be overblown but I obviously can’t do that because I did feel like you were doing that to me in that game. Fair?

[Raven Branwen]

Anyway @Lillith, I really appreciate you clarifying.

[Raven Branwen]

this is a lowkey prodge but

What is even remotely scummy about my posting style? Don’t you think if I was actually scum here, I would have already hammered? *smdh*.

not if you're scum with aldu ...

So what would you have me do then? You did see where I posted my intent to hammer right but Lillith asked me to wait.

not sure i get this? you're arguing as scum you would've hammered but then arguing you're not scum because you've given intent? i feel like i'm missing something in this convo

I gave intent but Lillith wanted to wait. If I was scum I would be trying to push some kind of agenda no? I’m very clearly not doing that although Skitter seems to think my not hammering is scummy because she - still don’t understand why - thinks I’m buddies with Aldus. Basically I’m willing to do whatever the majority wants, so I really don’t get the suspicion on me at all.

[Raven Branwen]

this is a lowkey prodge but

What is even remotely scummy about my posting style? Don’t you think if I was actually scum here, I would have already hammered? *smdh*.

not if you're scum with aldu ...

So what would you have me do then? You did see where I posted my intent to hammer right but Lillith asked me to wait.

not sure i get this? you're arguing as scum you would've hammered but then arguing you're not scum because you've given intent? i feel like i'm missing something in this convo

I gave intent but Lillith wanted to wait. If I was scum I would be trying to push some kind of agenda no? I’m very clearly not doing that although Skitter seems to think my not hammering is scummy because she - still don’t understand why - thinks I’m buddies with Aldus. Basically I’m willing to do whatever the majority wants, so I really don’t get the suspicion on me at all.

Quickhammering without giving intent and ignoring what others want me to do I think is very obviously scummy, since Lillith asked me to wait.

[Raven Branwen]

so you're saying if you were scum with aldu, you wouldn't have given intent on him, but would've tried to push somewhere else, did i get that right? (i have not slept much pls excuse my illiteracy)

I think Skitter is suggesting I want to avoid that wagon which is clearly not the case. Had Lillith given me the green light to hammer, I would have obviously done so. Yes that too, Skitter seems to think I’m either waiting to vote her or switch wagons, which is clearly not the case. I’m not hedging, I’m waiting for Lillith to tell me to hammer. So far, she has asked me to wait. Waiting for Lillith to give me the green light is is no way either scummy or agenda-y, is my point. Of course, either Lillith or SS can also hammer but that won’t be because I was trying to avoid doing so.

[Raven Branwen]

yes, it is, which is why i'm confused why you're saying you would've hammered already as scum?

Because it would mean I obviously have some kind of agenda, where as waiting to do what the majority wants me to do is the antithesis of that.

[Raven Branwen]

-

I thought I was scum in that game.

anything I said there, is like, going to be exaggerated for effect???
- I disagree with the claim that I was deathtunneling you
- I’m

not

saying that I’m scumreading you for your playstyle. if I’m scumreading you based on your writing style then it is 100%

unintentional

and

my entire point

is that I’m trying to assess whether I am in fact unintentionally scumreading you for your writing style so that I can then

not do that

- I don’t believe I have singled you out as a player or even picked on you, because, again, the reason I brought it up is because I’m trying to be fair
- given that Lunacy was the first game we were in together and this is the second, I think it’s reasonable for me to need at least one game played together before considering whether it’s a playstyle thing that made me scumread you. Now that we’re on the second game, I’m recalibrating my reads based on your play in both games. You keep bringing up Lunacy but like, I’m not sure how exactly I’m supposed to undo things I did in Lunacy, and on top of that I didn’t even know you so how on earth would I have known whether this is just how you post?

Yes I’m aware but that doesn’t mean it didn’t annoy me considerably. I don’t know how to make it any clearer. I get massively triggered if I think someone is sr the way I post which never changes. I did misunderstand that you weren’t actually doing that but trying to assess if you in fact were doing that, so I didn’t think it through and jumped to the wrong conclusion, I see that now. I sometimes react to things without fully thinking them through, whether in games or IRL. Later when I reassess things. I pick up on the subtleties I missed. I have a learning disability so that may also possibly factor into that.

[Raven Branwen]

Reads on ss/my slot are based on prior players in slots?

Why is pooky so low if he hard softed tpr?

This games makes literally no sense.

[Raven Branwen]

discussion why a confirmed vanilla was killed over two claimed PRs go:

i was visited by a friendly neighbour last night. skitter is aligned with the town.

wasn't sure if you wanted it out immediately.

Pooky’s the other one right according to Lillith so this is really really weird. She was the most obvtown player but still weird.

[Raven Branwen]

I think it's still strictly ideal for me not to engage you ya

Why is that?

[Raven Branwen]

pooky is a claimed PR, dunno if you missed that

Yeah, I thought so but wasn’t sure. What are your thoughts on how tw is interacting with Skitter?

[Raven Branwen]

Wait, you’re referring to duckling, not just Pooky?

Why are you skeptical of Pooky?

Well, duckling. Pooky and you obviously can’t all be PRs, there was only one in the last YoM game.

[Raven Branwen]

I agree with Dats, I want to get others’ - particularly SS’ take on this.

I won’t be around much today, so hopefully things will start making more sense later.

[Raven Branwen]

There's been like a lot of very strange pr softing this game

Strange how? and are you referring to Skitter or Pooky? I still haven’t read the beginning of the game but didn’t Koba fake a dayvig or something?

I missed reading all of that.

[Raven Branwen]

I don’t want to sound dumb but could some very kind person, please give me the cliff notes on the Koba fake dayvig thing? Thank you.

[Raven Branwen]

i was visited by a friendly neighbour last night. skitter is aligned with the town.

wasn't sure if you wanted it out immediately.

@duckling how are you suspicious of this?

[Raven Branwen]

I am not suspicious of that
I was suspicious of skitter's EOD1

What part of that don’t you believe that she is a neighbour or the friendly part of it?

@Skitter, why aren’t you answering my question wrt Pooky? Why are you skeptical of him?

And ANYONE please give me a brief summary of the Koba thing. I couldn’t find it when I ISO’d them prior to being super nauseous, which unfortunately still hasn’t changed.

[Raven Branwen]

I am not suspicious of that
I was suspicious of skitter's EOD1

What part of that don’t you believe that she is a neighbour or the friendly part of it?

@Skitter, why aren’t you answering my question wrt Pooky? Why are you skeptical of him?

And ANYONE please give me a brief summary of the Koba thing. I couldn’t find it when I ISO’d them prior to being super nauseous, which unfortunately still hasn’t changed.

Because you can’t both believe the claim and still be suspicious of her D1, so which is it? @duckling

I believe she did visit Dats and I tr Dats, so the neighbour part of it is confirmed, so you obviously can’t take issue with that, so you obviously are doubting the “friendly” part of it, since friendly=town.

[Raven Branwen]

i think very short tl;dr is:
- koba made a dayvig shot at donc
- donc gave a "final readslist" in case it's real
- skit believed it, tw and donc didn't really
- then koba revealed it to be fake

i'm not sure if anything very AI came out of it.

Okay thanks so much for this. Skit believed the dayvig or the readslist?
Nero once fake dayviged me in a game and I kept PMing the mod to find out if I was still alive. Other people told me that that they didn’t believe I believed it was real, which I obviously did but I probably wouldn’t anymore since I’ve seen so many people fake dv people.

[Raven Branwen]

@Skitter, why aren’t you answering my question wrt Pooky? Why are you skeptical of him?

Vague generic pr claim to get out of being wagoned

Also i'm not a neighbor, i'm a friendly neighbor

While i'm here posting: we should be wagoning tw

@tw, cut the crap, if you have reasons to doubt Skitter’s claim, stop beating around the bush or I’ll vote you.

[Raven Branwen]

I am not suspicious of that
I was suspicious of skitter's EOD1

Actually

VOTE: the worst

E-1

[Raven Branwen]

discussion why a confirmed vanilla was killed over two claimed PRs go:

because... skitter and ducky are both town? :X

big yikes

Skittter is confirmed by Dats but how is duckling confirmed by this? Or am I misunderstanding this?

[Raven Branwen]

@SS,2813 pinged me in particular because he doesn’t say he’s doubting her claim. If he believes the claim than why does Skitter’s D1 matter?

[Raven Branwen]

Friendly Neighbor

Alias: none
Alignment:
Pro-town
Role type:
Investigative
Communicative
Choice:
Night
A Friendly Neighbor can target a player at Night to tell them that they are Town.

The target will receive a message saying that the Friendly Neighbor is Town.

This role does nothing else - the Friendly Neighbor does not know the alignment of the person who got the message.

Friendly Neighbor bears no association with the Neighbor role.

Friendly Neighbor is necessarily Town-aligned.

Does everyone understand what a

Friendly Neighbour

is? A friendly neighbour is ALWAYS a town neighbour.

Skitter is 100% confitown from this.

[Raven Branwen]

rooroo in 903.

[Raven Branwen]

rooroo in 903.

VT

[Raven Branwen]

rooroo in 903.

VT

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... &start=900

[Raven Branwen]

tris from 893: https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=84&t=81029

i'm a town lover. i'm effectively a VT, except i investigate and flip as a town lover. i didn't bother crumbing too hard, since glorified VT, but i did drop this:

love you too, duckee

this is why i said i believed duck when he said he's a neighbor with no neighbor. i'm a lover with no lover.

UNVOTE:

[Raven Branwen]

I think you + real vig is unlikely. Datisi shot just because of the tiny chance that you are real and Pooky is real vig but Datisi happens to be scum.

pedit: @skitter

But Dats is one of my strongest tr, so I don’t think this is a great idea? Can you explain your thinking here?

[Raven Branwen]

keep in mind that doesn't necessarily confirm his alignment, i don't see a reason why scum couldn't be a neighbor with no neighbor... but i highly doubt it at this point.

I’m not sure what to think about duckling atp but I don’t want it on my head that I possibly helped execute a town bg. I agree that not having a neighbour like you not having a lover is definitely plausible.

I also disagree with Skitter about SS not being a valid bg target. Koba did appear to soft a PR, so duckling protecting SS over vt!Lillith is completely believable.

[Raven Branwen]

it's pooky/dsjstr. discuss.

I thought Pooky sounded different here than in coalition but I tr both you and SS and if duckling makes sense as mech town, than I don’t know who else it could be.

I also don’t see how from pooky’s pov, shooting on N2 makes more sense than on N1. Lillith thought he was going to be the NK, so I really don’t understand why he would think he wouldn’t be the NK. That’s what I was expecting. Now had he not softed PR, his thinking about waiting would actually make sense but since he did do that, I don’t understand why vig!Pooky is so confident he gets the chance N2.

[Raven Branwen]

also also: the reason pooky is claiming didn't try to shoot last night (even though he knows he's in the PoE after aldus flip) is because if he says he shot and he's a blank, we might hang him because "oh well just named townie" while now he's like "oh yeah gonna TRY TO shoot night 2". discuss. and by discuss i mean vote pooky.

So, if he is telling the truth here and he shot a blank, that would confirm he had no vig powers right, so yeah I would think if he was going to test that, it definitely made way more sense on N1.

[Raven Branwen]

I don’t understand why vig!Pooky is so confident he gets the chance N2.

I'm not confident - but if I shoot on N1 and hit town and scum kill me, then town is at lylo on D2 and I'm not going to do that to you guys when I messed up on D1 already.

But wouldn’t that be even more so the case on N2?

[Raven Branwen]

Trying to decide if I would value noelim and having Pooky shoot (/me die???) more than I would value an elim atp

Yeah, that might be a great idea. We can no execute and leash him to shoot whomever the majority wants because having both an execution plus a vig would only help scum.

@SS what do you think of this idea?

[Raven Branwen]

@duckling, why would you want Pooky to shoot you though, that part I’m not getting?

[Raven Branwen]

Trying to decide if I would value noelim and having Pooky shoot (/me die???) more than I would value an elim atp

Yeah, that might be a great idea. We can no execute and leash him to shoot whomever the majority wants because having both an execution plus a vig would only help scum.

@SS what do you think of this idea?

If we’re wrong on it being exactly djstr/Pooky.

Actually, we should 100% not rush this in any case. So, I’m not good at mech, so maybe I didn’t completely think it though.

I don’t think no execution is a terrible idea but I just don’t want to be wrong wrt to Pooky, if we can confirm his role.

[Raven Branwen]

The problem is that to accept that plan, we also have to carte blanche accept you as town who will be the final person standing and I'm not sure how I feel about that.

Well. that’s why I proposed a leash, if he shoots anyone else. it would be a scumclaim basically. It depends on how confident we our on who is most likely to be scum but I think Pooky’s role could possibly be confirmable. Because I tl him slightly after ISOing him in coalition, I would prefer to confirm him if possible.

[Raven Branwen]

@duckling, why would you want Pooky to shoot you though, that part I’m not getting?

I don't want Pooky to shoot me. I want to be a be the scum nk!

Oh sorry, I misread. D’oh

[Raven Branwen]

honestly I think the only value my role can play now is that if you guys accept me as town - scum will have to use a NK on me as I will draw vs scum in a 1v1 endgame but that would require you guys to actually believe me.

if you all accept that I have to be town - scum have to NK me because they can't let me get to 3p lylo because even if we miss there, I would shoot the last scum in the endgame

But you’re not sure you’re not a blank vig, is this correct?

[Raven Branwen]

enomis was a blank vig. I'd be surprised if Micc didn't clarify that Pooky was a blank vig, because they certainly are.

I’m not familiar with that game but why even have a blank vig in a setup? I’ve heard of modified bgs before but never a blank vig.

[Raven Branwen]

does anyone know off hand if there's been a strongman in a micro in the last year?

there's been at least one (micro 909)

Welcome, [Playername]. You are a Mafia 1-Shot Strongman.

You are a member of the Mafia, along with X, who is a Mafia Goon. You and your partner share a factional kill each night. You must choose which of you will commit the kill. You also share a factional PT, located here, where you may talk at any time.

Once per game you may strongkill a player, overriding any protection they might have.

You win when the Town has been eliminated, or nothing can stop this from occurring.

The game thread is here. Please confirm by replying to this PM with your role name or by posting in your PT.

@mod how would a potential strongman affect a bg? Bgs aren’t like docs so I don’t see how a hypothetical strongman would affect anything.

[Raven Branwen]

i played in that game, it's a role madness chaos game where there's 3-5 viginaltes, and each has a 50% chance of being a blank viginalte. of course, the vigis themselves are not aware whether they're a blank or not.

vigilante*, i can't spell. also the person he's claiming to be was a blank in that game, but the role PM doesn't say that.

Yeah, there’s obviously some swing in this: you don’t have a lover, tw doesn’t have a neighbour etc. But I see your point, it’s possible he could be bluffing but then why not just say he vigged N1 but it failed? Why claim he just didn’t try? That’s the part that I’m not getting.

[Raven Branwen]

@mod, if this bodyguard and the strongman from the role PM in 3048 both targetted player A, strongman using their strongman shot, and no other relevant roles in play, who would die?

Town Bodyguard Neighbor

Welcome, [playername]. You are a

Town Bodyguard Neighbor

.

Abilities:

• Bodyguard:
  Once every Night you may target another player to protect them from one killing action. Assuming no interference with your action, if you protect a player who would be killed that Night, you will die.
  
• Neighbor:
  You are a Neighbor with [playername]. Your Private Topic is here.

You win when all the threats to the Town have been eliminated.

The game thread is here. Please confirm by replying to this PM with your role name.

Oh it’s the same game? That means both roles can’t exist in this setup.

[Raven Branwen]

it's not the same game. strongman is from 909, town bodyguard neighbor is from 930. the formatting looks similar because i modded both of those game.

Oh okay then it is possible but I don’t think a strongman would have any effect on a bg, so I think unlikely?

[Raven Branwen]

@mod, if this bodyguard and the strongman from the role PM in 3048 both targetted player A, strongman using their strongman shot, and no other relevant roles in play, who would die?

Player A would be killed in this scenario.

Really, not the bg? Okay I just thought a strongman’s kill would go through regardless but the bg would still die in that case. Maybe I’m confusing strongman with strongwilled?

[Raven Branwen]

the good mod literally just said that the bg can't stop a strongman shot

Strong-Willed
Strong-Willed is a role modifier; it usually means that the player's abilities cannot be redirected or Roleblocked. However, any result that may be attained can still be tampered with by roles that alter informational results, such as Framer. In short, it greatly increases the chance of the player's ability working like the player wants it to.

Some moderators will ambiguously use this to mean that the strong-willed player cannot be recruited (by Cult, Neighborizer, and so forth). If you are not sure, consult with the moderator.

Strong-Willed is not to be confused with Strongman.

I did confuse strongman with strongwilled.

[Raven Branwen]

for (to me) very obivous reasons, no-elimination today is literal gamethrowing:
- pooky is either trueclaiming normal vigi, trueclaiming blank vigi, or scum. (ordered from least to most likely in my opinion.)
- if he's a normal vig, then sure he gets confirmed upon no-elim and double-kill, however in both other cases we're strictly worse off tomorrow, we're at evens, we've lost an elimination, and pooky isn't resolved. we're not doing this.

pooky needs to die here, that is a blatant fakeclaim. *however*, if the rest of you are so scared of executing a claimed power role, here's what we do:
- we agree on (1) non-pooky target we execute today, and (2) non-pooky target we would execute tomorrow in 5p lylo.
- we hang (1), we order pooky to shoot (2).

this is dumb, but at the very goddamn least it's not literal gamethrowing.

How would the flips factor into that though? Don’t you think if the non-Pooky target flips town, Pooky shouldn’t shoot anyone? The idea was in place of a non exectution. Anyway, we have 2 mech cleared or in the case of duckling - not a clear but mech believable. I know I’m town and I don’t think it’s you or SS, which leaves djstr, so back to sqare one I guess.

[Raven Branwen]

Don’t you think if the non-Pooky target flips town, Pooky shouldn’t shoot anyone?

no, that's exactly when he should be shooting.

like for example, say we agree that we hang dsjstr today, and if that hits green, we hang me tomorrow in 5p lylo.

there is no difference in outcome of the game whether town!me gets murdered by a vigilante OR hanged in 5p lylo. in both cases, town loses the game.
however, in the case where i am scum, pooky successfully shooting me instead of me getting hanged conftowns him.

like, in case our target number (2) is town, we don't lose anything, but if they're scum, we gain a conftown.

I think you’re far less likely to be hanged in LYLO but I do see your point.

[Raven Branwen]

I don’t understand why vig!Pooky is so confident he gets the chance N2.

I'm not confident - but if I shoot on N1 and hit town and scum kill me, then town is at lylo on D2 and I'm not going to do that to you guys when I messed up on D1 already.

I think u should have shot, like, raven or dsjstr to test it last night

Why? Weren’t you practically screaming for duckling’s head yesterday?

[Raven Branwen]

pooky needs to die here, that is a blatant fakeclaim. *however*, if the rest of you are so scared of executing a claimed power role, here's what we do:
- we agree on (1) non-pooky target we execute today, and (2) non-pooky target we would execute tomorrow in 5p lylo.
- we hang (1), we order pooky to shoot (2).

I am probably ok with this

Also I'm wicked jester from autumnal mafia

What does that mean? How can you be a wicked jester + friendly neighbour? I’m confused.

[Raven Branwen]

I don’t understand why vig!Pooky is so confident he gets the chance N2.

I'm not confident - but if I shoot on N1 and hit town and scum kill me, then town is at lylo on D2 and I'm not going to do that to you guys when I messed up on D1 already.

I think u should have shot, like, raven or dsjstr to test it last night

Why? Weren’t you practically screaming for duckling’s head yesterday?

Like I don’t understand why you would have expected Pooky to shoot me or dsjstr over duckling from your pov?

[Raven Branwen]

the dude's name is wicked jester. actually his name is wickedestjr, but you know.

Oh okay. I was wondering how Skitter could be both a jester and an FN.

[Raven Branwen]

This might not be the best thing to say, but i have some doubts of ss as well

Pedit: yeah. Should have included tw in that

I only confidently townread dats. And i guess mechanically tw is town. Help

Do you think we have 3 PRs in this game? I did think that Pooky seemed different in Coalition but both Dats and Aldus disagreed with me. I have no meta on dsjstr at all.

Do you know how much meta Lillith has on SS? Idk he was scum with me in Trust Fall and he seemed pretty wooden in that by comparison. I think I’m okay with either dsjstr or Pooky because of my slight town meta read on Pooky, I prefer dsjstr but I’ll go with what you guys think is best.

Yeah, I think if Dats is ever scum here, we 100% autolose anyway.

[Raven Branwen]

It's moot though, Pooky already said they were enomis, a blank vig.

I don’t understand, why is he then claiming not to know?

[Raven Branwen]

Idk about dsjstr or bugs but I am definitely a weaker scum player than Raven, not that that's really relevant lol

What is your read on Pooky? You had him as one of your top towns D1?

[Raven Branwen]

Can we review why raven is town pls?

I'm getting a little wary that she isnt really standing up for her own opinions, but keeps defaulting to - i'll do whatever you guys think is best. Which i find uncharacteristic

I’m torn between my slight townlean on Pooky to thinking then my reads are wrong elsewhere but if both aren’t scim, I can’t figure out where I’m wrong. I prefer djstr > Pooky is that isn’t already clear. I think he seemed different in coalition, so I would prefer to give him the chance to confirm himself.

I also thought that SS’ EoD D1 play looked particularly townie. I honestly don’t know what you would have me do Skitter, my two strongest sr have either been mech confirmed town or mech believable, so no I don’t have strong reads.

So leaving out the mech reads and myself, this is where I’m at currently.

Dats
SS
Pooky
djstr

[Raven Branwen]

I don't think i can townbin raven rn

Wasnt lilith dsjstr's biggest advocate?
Like it's a weird kill for pooky/dsjstr?

Do you dispute that Lillith was arguably the most obvtown player at EoD 1, and wasn’t she confirmed vt? I’m not understanding your reasoning here.

[Raven Branwen]

think he seemed different in coalition, so I would prefer to give him the chance to confirm himself.

In what way?

He seemed extremely disconnected and disengaged in that. His play on D1 was definitely quite different but he seems kind of deflated now, so less sure. Still not being able to have any read at all on djstr obviously isn’t helping too much.

[Raven Branwen]

It's moot though, Pooky already said they were enomis, a blank vig.

I don’t understand, why is he then claiming not to know?

Because Micc copies the role PM's verbatim from the game in question.

That said, I would be surprised if he did not clarify afterward as he did with the Night 2 Investigatioire in the last Miccro game. So I suppose this is worth a shot.

*takes a deep breath*

Micc, if you were to include a Vigilante role from Micro 941: Brass and Shrapnel, would you choose an individual player slot and then assign that player as either a True or Blank Vigilante depending on what the slot in that game was, or would you randomize it according to the normal generation procedure for Brass & Shrapnel? And, if you did assign it according to the game, would you then clarify to the player that they actually

did

know whether they were blank or not, even though the role PM implied that they did not?

+1

Great question.

[Raven Branwen]

Were you even on coalition?

No but I skimmed through it briefly in order to try and get a more confident read on Aldus. It didn’t help me do that but I did feel that Pooky was playing differently in that game than he was here. Did you ISO him in that? I think he sounded pretty fake there. Like he could seriously be bluffing and hopefully Micc clarifies for us exactly what his role is but if he knows for certain he’s a blank vig, he needs to claim it but he sounds like he doesn’t know but I only skimmed and Dats and Aldus disagreed, so if Micc clarify SS’ question, it will help us hopefully.

[Raven Branwen]

Skitter is 100% confitown from this.

Skitter is not 100% conftown, she could be scum with Datisi

I had been putting skitter down as green :l but you're right

Well I was going to point out how we have been struggling to be able to associate two players but I noticed that Dats and Raven/bugs have been voting for the same people but never at the same time. That was what I noticed on the VC's

If TW actually softed then this obviously wouldn't be the team because there have been three PR claims which seems excessive?

Anyone have an opinion on this?

[Raven Branwen]

Also very capable of playing scum in different 'styles' so to speak

Can you link some of his scumgames? I should also ask someone to do that for djstr as well I guess. I would do it myself but the nausea hasn’t gone away yet and just posting is difficult enough for me rn.

[Raven Branwen]

it just makes me wanna kill him. i don't know if dsjstr posted a single game relevant post today.

2845 sounds pretty scummy, because he seems to be throwing shade at everyone but Pooky and SS, particularly Dats.

[Raven Branwen]

Anyone in particular i should be fn-ing?

Pedit: yeah that's what i was thinking but i settled on 'probably doesnt publicly ask a question that confirms his partner as scum'

I don’t know how useful your role is anymore because anyone who doesn’t confirm you town is almost certainly scumclaiming, so I don’t think no matter whom you visit claims otherwise, do you?

[Raven Branwen]

If TW actually softed then this obviously wouldn't be the team because there have been three PR claims which seems excessive?

Was the plan to be going after tw? Because otherwise he's shading pooky

Yeah you’re right, I misread.

[Raven Branwen]

If TW actually softed then this obviously wouldn't be the team because there have been three PR claims which seems excessive?

Was the plan to be going after tw? Because otherwise he's shading pooky

Yeah you’re right, I misread.

But the only one who can 100% clarify this isn’t saying much.

[Raven Branwen]

I want to hear Pooky’s response to all of this, I still want djstr dead for that post.

[Raven Branwen]

Skitter is 100% confitown from this.

Skitter is not 100% conftown, she could be scum with Datisi

I had been putting skitter down as green :l but you're right

Well I was going to point out how we have been struggling to be able to associate two players but I noticed that Dats and Raven/bugs have been voting for the same people but never at the same time. That was what I noticed on the VC's

If TW actually softed then this obviously wouldn't be the team because there have been three PR claims which seems excessive?

Anyone have an opinion on this?

I think this post is scummier than anything Pooky has posted but if SS is right about Pooky lying, I dunno.

[Raven Branwen]

raven, pooky hardclaimed a role the mod said he wouldn't use in his setup. like what else do you want

Yeah, I just get strong gut scum vibes from 2845 but yeah I guess it’s LAL then? But I still want to wait to hear his response to this before I vote.

[Raven Branwen]

i mean, i've literally been arguing for like a day now how they're s/s so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Yeah, I guess that my sr on djstr as a result of 2845 which is a blatant scumpost imo, is a helluva lot stronger. But you’re right, it probably doesn’t matter too much the order if he lied.

[Raven Branwen]

Micc, if you were to include a Vigilante role from Micro 941: Brass and Shrapnel, would you choose an individual player slot and then assign that player as either a True or Blank Vigilante depending on what the slot in that game was, or would you randomize it according to the normal generation procedure for Brass & Shrapnel? And, if you did assign it according to the game, would you then clarify to the player that they actually

did

know whether they were blank or not, even though the role PM implied that they did not?

I would consider the hidden information aspect of this role to be bastard enough that it would not have been used for the creation of my setup.

@Pooky, Micc is claiming you not being sure whether you are a blank vig or a real one as bastard and therefore false. I don’t understand why town!you lies about this?

After reread, I’m spiritually voting this.

[Raven Branwen]

@Pooky, Micc is claiming you not being sure whether you are a blank vig or a real one as bastard and therefore false. I don’t understand why town!you lies about this?

After reread, I’m spiritually voting this.

yea i messed this up for the town so i probably hang for this - oops my bad guys.

I'm not a vigilante, I'm actually a bomb from that game. I wanted to try to get the mafia to shoot me cuz then one of them would die with me.

VOTE: djstr

[Raven Branwen]

@Pooky, Micc is claiming you not being sure whether you are a blank vig or a real one as bastard and therefore false. I don’t understand why town!you lies about this?

After reread, I’m spiritually voting this.

yea i messed this up for the town so i probably hang for this - oops my bad guys.

I'm not a vigilante, I'm actually a bomb from that game. I wanted to try to get the mafia to shoot me cuz then one of them would die with me.

VOTE: djstr

VOTE: dsjstr

[Raven Branwen]

raven, that's a lie. please don't fall for that shit.

Well I was an SS bomb in a game. I was trying to be so super obvtown so scum would kill me but I’m never able to be super obvtown when I really try.

@djstr thinks we’re the scumteam, like how is that not seriously scummy? First he insists it’s 100% Skitter/Aldus, now you/me.

dsjstr is making my scumdar leap off of the freaking charts. If you’re so convinced on Pooky/dsjtr then the order doesn’t matter anyway and I’ll feel better executing my strongest sr.

Skitter wasn’t wrong earlier, I think I was allowing my confusion over my reads on both Skitter and duckling being wrong to affect my play but my gut is screaming at me that dsjstr is scum and I usually wind up hating myself if I ignore my gut.

[Raven Branwen]

I'd be happy to mass-claim if someone else claims TPR cuz then that would be too many - 3 I think is a decent number

What are you trying to say?

Dats i saw the bugs thing and i'm not sure that's clearing

He said that he was trying to get the mafia to shoot him at night but it doesn't work with the mass claim but earlier he was supporting the idea. He's lying, and I would have put my vote on him but since pooky is at E-2 I wanted to avoid a quickhammer.

Didn’t you just say me/Dats were the scumteam?

[Raven Branwen]

I said you are the team unless one of the PR's lied... think about my poe SS, Dats, Raven.

Are you now saying that SS is your top sr?

[Raven Branwen]

Notice how raven is pushing dsjstr instead of confscum

Because he lied? He is claiming a different role to bait the NK, you’re 100% certain that is impossible?

[Raven Branwen]

Skitter wasn’t wrong earlier,

What wasnt i wrong about?

You can’t seem to make up your mind about me. It’s scummy if I don’t take a strong stance on my reads and it’s scummy if I do. Which is it, because it seems I’m damned if I do, damned if I don’t with you. I’m not tr Pooky but I’m hard gut sr dsjstr.

[Raven Branwen]

Notice how raven is pushing dsjstr instead of confscum

Because he lied? He is claiming a different role to bait the NK, you’re 100% certain that is impossible?

No but it's like 98% impossible
What's a bomb again ?

If scum kill you, you die, different from a PGO.

[Raven Branwen]

Notice how raven is pushing dsjstr instead of confscum

Because he lied? He is claiming a different role to bait the NK, you’re 100% certain that is impossible?

No but it's like 98% impossible
What's a bomb again ?

If scum kill you, you die, different from a PGO.

When a Bomb dies at Night, they kill every player who targeted them with a killing action that Night (unless the action in question was blocked, redirected, etc., and failed to go through as a result).

[Raven Branwen]

TOWN
Skitter
tw
ss/koba

NULL
Dats
Raven

MAFIA
Pooky

If Pooky is scum, then me/Dats can’t obviously be the scumteam.

[Raven Branwen]

Not sure ur reaction to the dayvig thing is congruent with being a bomb

I still haven’t read that part of the game, I know that Dats gave me a summary but if someone could actually link all of those posts, it would be super helpful, because I’m getting the sense that without it my read on the gamestate may be flawed.

[Raven Branwen]

i highly doubt dsjstr genuinely thinks i'm a viable partner for pooky here.

As you already demonstrated with bugs ditto, which is another thing pinging me about dsjstr, his reading either of us as possible partners with Pooky makes 0 sense.

[Raven Branwen]

Dsjstr and Raven?

Is your bugspray read that solid?

Why am I scum? When I make votes that ignore my gut, I usually feel shitty.

[Raven Branwen]

@raven, it starts on page 42.

pedit: who's scum then, s_s?

Thanks I’ll check that out.

[Raven Branwen]

I don't think you are particularly, I just think it's something that Datisi should be considering more heavily than he is.

That’s why I’m voting dsjstr because I’m not convinced on Pooky but I do have a hard gut sr on dsjstr and if we executed Pooky today and he flipped town, I’d feel bad.

[Raven Branwen]

well you are like conf town with like a 70% town win rate and according to big-ego DonC like the greatest mafia player ever so who else would I put my hopes and dreams on

Have i mentioned recently that i hate being conftown in lylo :/

Seriously, why tho? I love being confitown in LYLO.

[Raven Branwen]

I'm struggling with whether Datisi's vehement insistence that I'm scum is town or scum AI because it's strange coming from either side -

Scum should know that I will flip green so it's weird to push that hard on me - however his complete lack of doubt is strange coming from a town uninformed POV - so I can see him doing this as a townie being driven by coalition -

if Datisi is town that would mean D1 wagon on me of Datisi/Aldus/Miccro Mask was all townies -

I remember SS/Raven jumping on the wagon at various points

and almost eliminating me and both players are very solid as read town across the entire town - for this meta to make sense it would mean the scum were sitting on the sidelines laughing as I got run up and were hoping the town would just hang me without them getting involved.

I don’t think I ever voted you, bugs was already voting you when I repped in. You can check all of the D1 VCs but I’m pretty sure I’m not wrong about that.

[Raven Branwen]

koba and bugspray both voted me during that time frame but koba unvoted before bugspray hammered afair

???

No one was hammered before I repped in, are you referring to some different game? *confuzzled*

[Raven Branwen]

oh right, that happened didn't it? bugspray almost lolhammering pooky?

10 mafiascum bucks on that not being s/s...

Oh, nm, I stand corrected. How much of the early game didn’t I read?

[Raven Branwen]

rooroo in 903.

VT

I've been reading everyone's role and setups and rooroo in 903 was a vanilla townie but the vanilla townie in that game won if the mafia controlled 50% of the town.

@Micc - if you included a vanilla townie from a reverse nightless game into this game - would the vanilla townie retain the original win condition from 903 where they win if the mafia control 50% of the town or would it be changed to a normal vanilla townie role?

Specifically the VT in this post:

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=84&t=81405

The game was

Reverse

Jester Nightless, rooroo was still vt in that despite the different wincon. Gamma a jester for example won by NOT getting executed and leaving the game and scum had to all die. You really should read that game, it was a real nailbiter the day right before LYLO.

[Raven Branwen]

Not sure how to get the link since it is locked :/

just copy paste the URL?

You need to press PM and can direct quote the post. You’re welcome.

[Raven Branwen]

It almost felt like Dats/Bugs were playing as masons but there are no masons...

I would really love to hear more, please elaborate.

[Raven Branwen]

It almost felt like Dats/Bugs were playing as masons but there are no masons...

I would really love to hear more, please elaborate.

Oh wait, so you don’t think ME and Dats were playing like masons, so why haven’t you revised your me/Dats theory then? And you also suddenly dropped your too many PRs theory as well. Did you ever explain your reasoning for either?

[Raven Branwen]

Raven just hasn't voted but it seems like you both want me/pooky so I wouldn't say that you two have not continued. In fact it was Raven who said that I didn't see you two as masons. I'll have to check your timing when you mentioned that 2 goons makes sense but I think you might have said that just so FoS would be put on a PR.

I feel more confident on you!scum > Pooky but unless my reads are off somewhere, you two look like the most likely based off of PoE. I also don’t understand why he claims I ever jumped on him D1, when I’m extremely sure that wasn’t the case, so no idea where he’s getting that from.

I think you completely abandoning your too many PRs theory without any explanation is weird, plus you keep saying that Dats/bugs were somehow “communicating” but you clearly aren’t seeing that with me, so why do you keep pushing this narrative? So, it just reads off to me that you completely abandon that too many TPR theory without ever explaining why and then push Dats/me as a team despite you keep only mentioning Dats/bugs as being involved with this alleged “communicating” but not me. I would think that town!you would clearly have to realize that your theory doesn’t really hold up but instead of rethinking it, you continue to pursue that narrative.

[Raven Branwen]

If I'm wrong then I'd like to be the hammer today.

Why won’t you just answer my questions? Why did you drop your too many TPRs theory and why aren’t you re-evaluating on your Dats/me team when you clearly don’t think we’re secretly “communicating”?

[Raven Branwen]

Can I ask why you don't want pooky hammered today?

I’m less opposed than I was since I don’t understand why he’s claiming things I am very confident are untrue, like me and SS jumping on him but I’m really having trouble with you continuing to pursue a narrative that is chock full of contradictions - me/Dats as the scumteam based off of alleged secret “communicating” despite only claiming you thought that of him/bugs but not him/me. You still haven’t explained why the fact that you are not seeing that with me/Dats hasn’t caused you to re-evaluate. Town tends to do that when there are obvious holes in their theory but it’s scummy that it hasn’t caused you to reacess. Also, why were you claiming that Pooky was scum due to there being too mny TPRs and just completely abandon it to push Dats/me? Do you not see why that looks scummy?

[Raven Branwen]

Because I don't know any more, I don't have knowledge on setups other than newbie. But I think I called you two out early in the day so obviously you would play like you have not been communicating it would be silly if you made it obvious.

So you don’t see it as possible that your theory could just be flat out wrong?

[Raven Branwen]

dsjstr's iso today jumps from "it's raven/dats" to "pooky is obviously lying i don't wanna vote in case of quickhammer" to "nvm PRs are fine it's raven/dats" again and like none of it is making sense

Yeah, it’s weird and hedgey, especially since he is only claiming to see this secret “communicating” with you/bugs, yet he is claiming the lack of this obvious alleged communicating with you/me clearly means we’re trying to make it look not obvious.

If he doesn’t see any evidence of us doing that but from his pov, only you/bugs, then town!him should be seriously considering that his theory might be wrong, rather than claiming we’re trying to not make it look obvious - when he has already pretty much straight up stated that he hasn’t seen anything whatsoever to indicate that you/me are involved in any secret communicating, so how is that even making an iota of sense?

[Raven Branwen]

I do which is why I would want to be the hammer... if pooky is actually bomb then I don't want to be in that ELO because of how bad I had thrown.

Why would town!you want to be the hammer? I don’t understand why you wouldn’t want to be in ELO. I don’t know what to think anymore.

But fypov, if you know you’re town, you shouldn’t want to be the hammer because that’s antitown. Do you no longer think there are too many TPRs or not? If yes, then it seems seriously super weird that you would want to be the hammer. I really don’t know what to make of this.

[Raven Branwen]

I'd be the obvious elim option and town loses, if you think that there are only two PR's then why not vote for pooky? If we assume that there are 2 goons then I would say that having a third PR would not be likely... but how do we know there are 2 goons?

I have no idea if there are too many TPRs but if there are a bg neighbour probably makes more sense than a bomb. I’d feel safer basing my vote off of play and once again you seem to be contradicting yourself. You claim you want to be the hammer yet you want me to vote Pooky, so which is it then? If you want to be the hammer than why are you trying to get me to vote Pooky when your vote is still on Dats? Like this sounds really fucked up

How can you claim you want to be the hammer in case Pooky really is a bomb but still want me to vote him? Like why aren’t you voting Pooky? You’re literally not making any sense here.

[Raven Branwen]

I also don’t understand why he claims I ever jumped on him D1, when I’m extremely sure that wasn’t the case, so no idea where he’s getting that from.

I was talking about bugspray who almost accidentally hammered me on D1 - you are playing his slot rn.

But why did you say “Raven” then? but okay I guess that makes sense?

What do you think of dsjtr’s recent posting?

[Raven Branwen]

i dont get what the hammer means. does hammer mean last vote or something different here?

Dsjstr seems to be claiming he wants to be today’s execution but he’s also trying to get me to vote you while he’s still voting Dats.

[Raven Branwen]

i dont get what the hammer means. does hammer mean last vote or something different here?

Dsjstr seems to be claiming he wants to be today’s execution but he’s also trying to get me to vote you while he’s still voting Dats.

Or is he actually saying he won’t move off of Dats unless he can hammer you? I am seriously confused by it but I’m having real trouble understanding how whichever is coming from a townie mindset.

[Raven Branwen]

Honestly visit me, the only way that you can be confirmed is if someone else learns that you are actually a neighbor.

Only way for you to not be 100% confirmed is if you go for the person that gets killed.

The v/la wasn't the problem

then i don't understand what you're trying to say and can you just answer the question plz?

I believe you are asleep now so you can see what I saw tomorrow morning, I have no idea what you were trying to say.

If I was right about the 3 PR's then you can see how clearly fmpov it is raven/dats, I don't see how

koba

could have been scum.

And how does Skitter being confirmed fit into any of this? And why by you, no less? And if you are right about the 3 PRs, then how does that point to a me/Dats scumteam when both of us have claimed vt? Nothing you’re saying makes any sense.

[Raven Branwen]

dsj's point is that skitter visiting him and him getting the pm from mod confirms skitter because then that's 2 people who got the PM from the mod.

The reason why dsj wants to be visited is because he thinks he's lynchbait so if the scum kill him to prevent skitter from getting confirmed then it's 1 less lynchbaity person in the lylo - conversely he also could think scum wouldn't kill him since he is lynchbaity and they want to keep him around for lylo

Assuming he isn’t scum, wouldn’t scum killing him confirm Skitter anyhow? Don’t you think it is far more likely scum kills duckling in this scenario?

[Raven Branwen]

skitter should visit pooky

If Pooky is telling the truth about his claim, this makes way more sense.

[Raven Branwen]

dsj's point is that skitter visiting him and him getting the pm from mod confirms skitter because then that's 2 people who got the PM from the mod.

The reason why dsj wants to be visited is because he thinks he's lynchbait so if the scum kill him to prevent skitter from getting confirmed then it's 1 less lynchbaity person in the lylo - conversely he also could think scum wouldn't kill him since he is lynchbaity and they want to keep him around for lylo

here's my dilemma

I'm pretty townish on SS Raven Datisi

Skitter basically has to be town at this point with that role right? I don't think TW is fakeclaiming.

which leaves dsj - scum

but that means one of my reads on SS- Raven - Dats is wrong.

if DSJ is town it means I'm complete wrong about the game-state.

I've re-read a fair bit but it feels murky - I'm legit super paranoid rn about a Raven/SS scum team - which would be pretty much GG for us if true.

Hey can you please clarify this? Do you sr dsjstr or not?

[Raven Branwen]

Only way for you to not be 100% confirmed is if you go for the person that gets killed.

The v/la wasn't the problem

then i don't understand what you're trying to say and can you just answer the question plz?

I believe you are asleep now so you can see what I saw tomorrow morning, I have no idea what you were trying to say.

If I was right about the 3 PR's then you can see how clearly fmpov it is raven/dats, I don't see how

koba

could have been scum.

If Dats/me are the likeliest scumteam fypov, then why fypov, does scum!Dats confirm town!Skitter? Town!Dats obviously doesn’t confirm scum!Skitter either, so either the exact scumteam is Skitter/Dats or they’re both town.

So, why do you continue to push me/Dats as the scumteam if you tr Skitter? And your 3 PRs theory also doesn’t fit with that either since neither of us are claimed PRs.