NoPowerOverMe's Mini Normal Review, July 2020

[northsidegal]

ego

[northsidegal]

so if my analysis of all 12 player normals across 2019 is correct (courtesy of the mini normal archives which are courtesy of me), town's winrates across all 13 player games was roughly 66% while across all games it was closer to 53%, which suggests that smaller mini normal setups tended to be won by scum more often, which i think would suggest that they tended to be balanced as scumsided

this is just sort of background for my thought process in balancing a 12 player setup. onto specifics:

just from a setup perspective rather than only a balance perspective, i don't like the fact that you have 5 TPRs and more TPRs than there are VTs. none of the roles themselves are complex at all (which is good if you're going to have a lot of them), but it is still more than typical.

okay, balance points: innocent child + watcher that can see the mafia kill is a hard no. that interactions are really bad


here's a potential alternative setup off the top of my head (you don't have to accept it, it's just a suggestion):

Mafia Even-Night Commuter
Mafia Neighbor
Mafia Neighbor

Town 2-shot Personal Watcher
Town Even-Night Cop
Town Innocent Child
Town 1-shot Jailkeeper
Town Neighbor


the 1-shot jailkeeper slot is the one i'm the least sure about but eh, just kind of brainstorming here

if you want to talk a little bit about your thought process behind designing the setup then feel free, that might be helpful

[northsidegal]

I think there needs to be WIFOM setup in games to discourage town from winning the game based solely on what they expect the setup to be.

in practice this doesn't really happen. you're correct in that some level of red herring is healthy for the meta, but that doesn't mean that outright mod WIFOM is a good thing

at first i thought that there were only two scum neighbors and i was going to call it unacceptable – i think that a 1 town / 2 scum is close to that but still probably not unacceptable

[northsidegal]

I take it you want me to take out the miller in favor of a VT?

that was just part of an alternative proposal.

specifically, the setup as it stands is unpassable because of the IC + Watcher + Doctor, without even going any deeper into balance.

[northsidegal]

i'm here.

replacing the innocent child is not enough because doctor + watcher, as implosion said, is still a really bad combination of roles alone.

[northsidegal]

watcher itself is a role that a setup really needs to be built around to avoid the mafia just getting instantly punished by being guiltied for making (what are typically) good decisions by killing claimed power roles.

i'm going to requote my proposed alternative setup, i'd like to hear more of your thoughts on it. i am sorry to propose such radical changes to your setup, but i only do so because i truly believe that the combination of roles that you have is really unworkable for a balanced and fair game.

here's a potential alternative setup off the top of my head (you don't have to accept it, it's just a suggestion):

Mafia Even-Night Commuter
Mafia Neighbor
Mafia Neighbor

Town 2-shot Personal Watcher
Town Even-Night Cop
Town Innocent Child
Town 1-shot Jailkeeper
Town Neighbor

[northsidegal]

okay, i'll need to see role PMs for that setup and the rules that you'll be using as well

[northsidegal]

commuters have the option to commute or not, so that should be reflected in the mafia even night commuter PM

would prefer the scum neighbor PM to just list the names of the neighbors rather than the "your partner X and an opponent Y"

innocent child should say "reveal that you are aligned with the town" rather than your role, which is technically not correct

you've got a floating "2-shot watcher" in the town 2-shot watcher PM that should go. it's also a Personal watcher, not a regular watcher

the even night cop ability wording is a little strange, although it's not a huge deal.

this also isn't a huge deal but it's a change i'd like to be made, in the 1-shot jailkeeper PM change "Once per game" to "One time only" for clarity.

your VT role PM has some messed up formatting

[northsidegal]

your deadlines and prod timers are nonstandard – not something that needs to be changed at all, just something i figure is worth bringing attention to

if you're going to have day talk it needs to be for all PTs, not just the mafia PT

[northsidegal]

apart from that the rules seem fine except for the fact that you need to include a sample VT role PM in the rules

[northsidegal]

your definition of personal is wrong, check the wiki again, i linked it earlier

[northsidegal]

correct

[northsidegal]

watcher determines who visited, not if

that and the updated rules and i should be able to pass this

[northsidegal]

your deadlines and prod timers are nonstandard – not something that needs to be changed at all, just something i figure is worth bringing attention to

if you're going to have day talk it needs to be for all PTs, not just the mafia PT

apart from that the rules seem fine except for the fact that you need to include a sample VT role PM in the rules

[northsidegal]

having both if and who is kind of redundant given that telling you who visited also necessarily implies if anyone visited

just say who

[northsidegal]

i trust you but as long as you're here i figure that it's really not a huge deal

[northsidegal]

like your rules say "mafia have daytalk" even though you say they don't so it's my job as a reviewer to bring attention to that and ask you to fix it

i trust that even if you didn't post the updated rules here that you would change them but confirming that you did is part of my obligation to the players of the game

i realize that i'm being something of a bureaucrat but it's in service to you as a mod and the players that we catch errors early in the process

[northsidegal]

i might not have been clear when i said "it's not a huge deal". i meant to say "it's not a huge deal for you to post your updated rules". i need you to post your rules.

[northsidegal]

/pass