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UNVOTE:
VOTE: Icon
NPOM seems like he's pretty inexperienced. No way scum comes out and actually goes SRS MODE in RVS. The real goof here is Icon trying to make that seem scummy.
(In fact, NPOM was a pretty easy misyeet D1 in a recent game I played. He was similarly overeager to scum hunt, and the scum team just sat back and let that be a fail. Only took slight prodding to make it an all town wagon. NPOM was town vig that game.)YOUR AD HERE- VP Baltar
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The point is NPOM is an easy target for a misyeet. In the game I referenced, my scum team was more careful and let the NPOM misyeet happen without having to participate much (iirc, one scum member quick hammered). The particulars from any game to game are going to differ. How is that confusing for you?In post 105, Snowblaze wrote:Am I missing something here, or does that not make much sense? Why do you think Iconeum's scumread on NPOM is scum-motivated?
I think it's scum motivated because it's unlikely scum is going to come out both barrels in RVS the way NPOM did. Scum are timid little babies, afraid to attract attention to themselves early on in the game. I'm saying Icon goofed by thinking "oh, here is an easy push I can hop on to look like I'm scumhunting."YOUR AD HERE- VP Baltar
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Nothing stops him from being haphazard as scum. I'm just saying, generally speaking, scum are a cautious breed, especially early in the game.In post 114, Testarossa wrote:Like I get your thought process here in addition with your second post. But if NPOM is pretty inexperienced and an easy miselim for scum, what stops him from playing haphazardly as scum too? Scum that are going try-hard and struggling with it on page one is not necessarily something rare imo. Why do you think he is town here? Or is it rather just a consequence of you scumreading Icon?
I don't know what his scum meta is. But based on my experience with him when he was town, this would fit with his play.
Curious why you find it convincingly scummy, though willing to give you time to scan some NPOM games and come to your own conclusion on his play as town.YOUR AD HERE- VP Baltar
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Because NPOM was attacking GB for an obvious RVS vote. If you're scum, that's pretty clearly not going to do anything but bring you trouble. Whereas I could totally see an overeager town newbie (NPOM has only been on the site for a couple months) doing that because they aren't worrying at all about trouble, just earnestly trying to find scum.In post 116, Datisi wrote:baltar, could you elaborate on why you find nopoweroverme's early game as too bold to be from scum, while not icon's? i wouldn't classify icon's play so far as cautious/timid, you would?
The above feels super obvious to me, so Icon going after that would fit as scum. I'd expect a scum might push on it because it is easy to portray a terrible point from NPOM as "scummy". Contrary to what you're saying, it does feel like a timid play to me given NPOM seems like an easy target.YOUR AD HERE- VP Baltar
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I agree with this. I could easily be wrong too. This is quickly starting to feel like we are making overly strong points based on minorly different reads of a short exchange. We need more people posting and getting the game juices goingIn post 119, Testarossa wrote:There are interesting differences, but for so early I don't see any useful pro/contra arguments per meta tbh so I would rather roll with seeing more from him here.YOUR AD HERE- VP Baltar
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In post 122, NoPowerOverMe wrote:A) i don't think inoc is scum. She's just trying to read me.
B) I'm not inexperienced. I have played as another alt.
C) my playstyle tends to attract attention. I try to use that to my teams advantage on both sides, but me being mislynched as town is not uncommon.
D) I'm considering switching my vote from GB but he's not making it easy by not posting.YOUR AD HERE- VP Baltar
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Seems a bit weird he went from possibly asking serious questions ("why are you lying daitsi?) to what looks like an RVS vote.In post 121, Testarossa wrote:On another note, what is your first impression of Billy?YOUR AD HERE- VP Baltar
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Sorry! I was lazy.In post 127, Datisi wrote:
who?In post 125, VP Baltar wrote:daitsi
anyway, does knowing npom is an experienced player change your read there?
also i wanted to wait and see if npom was gonna correct baltar about being (in)experienced, but then testarossa brought up the alt, big sad.
Have you played with NPOM's alt before? Maybe I'm just making bad assumptions about experience here. That would definitely change my read of that situation.YOUR AD HERE- VP Baltar
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Shrug. I don't have strong feelings either way yet.In post 128, NoPowerOverMe wrote:Vp is Billy scummy.YOUR AD HERE- VP Baltar
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Rereading everything so far now that I'm not on my phone.
How is this alignment indicative for NPOM or anyone?In post 38, Iconeum wrote:Misses the townslip from GB,
Why?In post 88, NoPowerOverMe wrote:Sorry, but I don't believe in RVS. At least as much as I can try to avoid it.
In post 122, NoPowerOverMe wrote:D) I'm considering switching my vote from GB but he's not making it easy by not posting.
This actually does bug me. Like why are you saying "look out guys, might switch my vote here!"In post 172, NoPowerOverMe wrote:I am leaning towards voting Inoc.
Why not just vote?
Explain the wind up to me.
I looked it up (admittedly quickly because I only have so much time today). I'm going to say, it's safe to think NPOM's posting style doesn't feel strongly indicative of alignment. He definitely seems like he puts off weird vibes as either alignment and could be an easy yeet D1. I still stand by my read that scum!Icon could see that as an easy target, but that read feels softer now. (Also, see above weird vote telegraphing from NPOM.)In post 133, Datisi wrote:re: baltar, i have not played with his alt, i just remembered seeing him say somewhere he's got that account, and the join date being a few years back. i don't actually know anything about his play, i just assumed earlier join date = more experience.
*farting noises*In post 136, Billy Pilgrim wrote:Honestly the dude seemed testy, which could be scum or could be a way town reacts to jokey rvs. The fact that he doubled down on it almost feels too scummy to be scum. But i thought that overt hostility was too scummy to be scum before and that player ended up being scum. So this is something that im going to treat as a play style thing that may be less so later.
Alduskkel -- if we were going to do some dualing wagon action, who would you want run up with NPOM?YOUR AD HERE- VP Baltar
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I actually explained this already. I think it was snowblaze who asked me?In post 236, Iconeum wrote:
Look at this from HIS pov. He literally said that in that particular game, you got mislynched easily. And that scum had to do nothing for it. Everyone pushing you in that game was TOWN.In post 231, NoPowerOverMe wrote:1) I'm assuming he's guessing that you are smart enough to sense mislynch bait and you think I am it, and that eliminating me would lead to a similar result as the last time I was day 1 eliminated for little or no reason. He's not wrong, as you are holding on to your assumptions way to strenuously.
How does that make him scumread me for doing that, in this game? Where is the logic from his pov?
I was actually thinking I might have been wrong in my initial scum read of you, but your completely over the top reaction and OMGUS to a single vote is very interesting.
Let's get some more votes on Icon pls. Hellbrooks, testarossa, we got a live one over here.YOUR AD HERE- VP Baltar
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Tell me more. I'm also interested in this.In post 186, Testarossa wrote:VOTE: Billy Pilgrim
Not really away from NPOM, but I feel it's locking too much into NPOM/Icon and I don't really like Billy's posts or what he isn't doing atm.YOUR AD HERE- VP Baltar
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Oh wow, this is a completely different wave length from me. Interesting, interesting.In post 243, hellbooks wrote:scum vibes from testarossa too. no i will not be explaining at this timeYOUR AD HERE- VP Baltar
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Are you actually reading the game?In post 269, Billy Pilgrim wrote:Ok now im interested, you admit that you may have been wrong in your initial scumread. Icon points that out says your bad logic (which you've already admitted) makes you scummy and now you characterize his reaction to a bad push as "completely over the top" and "OMGUS." Please explain this logic.
I did not admit to anything regarding Icon's "bad logic" argument because it is flat wrong. Icon failed to read properly and the OMGUSed me is what took place.
I said I could be reading the situation wrong because after I did some more meta review of NPOM, this is just kind of how he plays. It certainly doesn't detract from my point that he is an easy scum target if he is town. But I was willing to say he does attract attention because of the way he posts, which would weaken -- though not entirely negate -- my initial read of Icon.
However, Icon then following up on me saying that by completely losing it for two pages that anyone would question their motives for voting NPOM and then pretending like attacking NPOM is some bold and risky stance is quite rich.YOUR AD HERE- VP Baltar
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The pocketing of me feels a bit hard, so I have a natural skepticism of that. I would agree with you that some of his posts feel a bit like busy work, though I did find myself nodding along at a couple points. I could probably make a stronger argument that Billy and snowblaze are busy bodies with little substance.In post 293, Datisi wrote:
*waves*In post 292, VP Baltar wrote:Perhaps people who have played with Icon before can weigh in and say if this is typical behavior.
ico can get very annoyed at scumreads he considers unfair, it's not scum!indicative
your thoughts on andres?
Overall, still have a null on Andres. Would rather we ran up ico or Billy.YOUR AD HERE- VP Baltar
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Tell me more Tell me moreIn post 315, DkKoba wrote:hi VOTE: ico am busy but when i was reading game b4 replacing in this slot pinged me v hard notably between pages 6-10YOUR AD HERE- VP Baltar
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What has billy done that's town?In post 341, Iconeum wrote:
I don't really feel a scum!Billy actually.In post 335, VP Baltar wrote:Ico, let's put our differences aside. Get on this Billy wagon?YOUR AD HERE- VP Baltar
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Damn, you all were super busy. I'm going to try to limit this to only the most pertinent things to avoid a giant catch up wall.
Curious what information you think we'd most glean from that? I'm not opposed to information yeets D1.In post 348, Iconeum wrote:For information purposes, NPOW would actually be a great lynch.
Why is Billy town? I literally can't remember a single thing he's done. He's like the dictionary definition of IIOA and softball questions that go nowhere.In post 357, Snowblaze wrote:Anyway, yeah, I haven’t stated any reads, but that’s more just me being my usual non-commital and cautious early game self than anything suspicious. I guess I can probably produce some now if I must.
Townleans: Testarossa, Datisi, Iconeum, Billy Pilgrim
lol wutIn post 393, NoPowerOverMe wrote:I see some are scumreading baltar and i can see where they are coming from.
Who you agreeing with? Billy, who was sheeping Ico, who was not (in my opinion) making a good point on their own defense?
This guy gets it. Hope we can stop harping on this point eventually since it's been explained like 50 times, regardless of Ico & snowblaze's insistence that it does not work logically.In post 434, jankofan wrote:
I got the impression that in VP's game scum chose to leave them alone and eventually NPOM attracted enough attention to fuel an all town wagon on them. Whereas in this game scum (you) have chosen to jump on them early and use the concept that NPOM is safely pushable to attract neutral/positive attentionIn post 427, Iconeum wrote: did you happen to read the post i made where it shows the faulty logic used by VP in his push on me?
VP used meta from a game where NPOW was mislynched by town, and scum just sat by. Then VP applied it to this game where NPOW is once again being pushed, so his logical conclusion should be that it's probably town again but instead ends up scumreading me.early in the game. Pretty sure thats what vp's point was? Anyway my read on you extends past that concept and includes your progression from the early push even though it does circle back and tie in vp's initial argument.
Speaking of snowblaze, they're another person I'd put in the "to yeet" pile with Billy Pilgrim for literally doing nothing so far to push the game forward. Particularly don't care for snowblaze's reaction to getting a few minor votes. Seemed quite exasperated to some mild pressure.
lol, excuse me, what? You the decider on what town does with Ico?In post 523, Datisi wrote:koba, here's the thing. ico is town. without me, you're not getting him through. either start convincing me why ico's scum, or it's not happening.
Also, hi DkKoba. Appreciate the zero fucks given.
Anyhow, right now we should yeet Billy or Snowblaze. Both are useless and high likelihood to be the scum who juuuuuust doesn't quite get the game state. They're both out of sync and trying to fit in like the 40 year old in a too-tight T-shirt at a singles mixer.YOUR AD HERE- VP Baltar
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It's ok, I got you. Vote Billy or snowblazeIn post 614, hellbooks wrote:eugh feel like i consumed too much in one go and im still stuck on digesting... cant really 'get' the game stateYOUR AD HERE- VP Baltar
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Who are said ppl?In post 620, DkKoba wrote:is it weird that im more paranoid of ppl who are able to vocalize their reads better and townread ppl who have confident reads but cannot explain them as succinctly?? i feel like weird brain rn
Vote Billy or snowblaze plsYOUR AD HERE- VP Baltar
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How is anyone seeing this as town?In post 653, Snowblaze wrote:
I don’t like this post, but I don’t even know if it’s AI at all. I just completely disagree on principle. (May or may not be because it’s me you’re talking about.)In post 607, VP Baltar wrote: Speaking of snowblaze, they're another person I'd put in the "to yeet" pile with Billy Pilgrim for literally doing nothing so far to push the game forward. Particularly don't care for snowblaze's reaction to getting a few minor votes. Seemed quite exasperated to some mild pressure.
(snip)
Anyhow, right now we should yeet Billy or Snowblaze. Both are useless and high likelihood to be the scum who juuuuuust doesn't quite get the game state. They're both out of sync and trying to fit in like the 40 year old in a too-tight T-shirt at a singles mixer.
The exasperation is because, as I mentioned earlier, I’ve been wagoned day one as town quite a bit recently and I don’t want it to happen again.
“doing nothing to push the game forward” - that’s kind of hard to do without scumreads a lot stronger than day-one-me ever gets unless I’m confbiasing.
“Useless”... no. Just no. That’s... really not true. I’m just approaching the game in a different way.
And even if I was “useless”, I don’t even see how that makes me scum as opposed to useless town.
1) complains about getting wagoned when never facing any actual pressure
2) says she can't scumhunt rn because it's D1
3) THEN says she's definitely not being useless, despite just saying she's not pushing the game forward.
4) then says "jk if I am useless, it's not AI"
UNVOTE:
VOTE: snowblaze
Yeet this. Snowblaze is scum that doesn't know what to do because there is an active group that seems pretty town. I get it! That's a hard spot to be in when you're scum. Tough roll. GG.
In other news:
The Ico/Andres back and forth is hurting my head a little. I feel like all these Ico interactions end up being pages of "NO YOU'RE WRONG" arguments about tiny tiny points that aren't that illuminating. We need to be looking at broader issues at this point. Snowblaze and Billy are the coasting scum here.YOUR AD HERE- VP Baltar
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My general experience is most people stay suspicious of me (or at least skeptical) until deep in the game, regardless of alignment.In post 699, Datisi wrote:baltar, do you think i should be townreading you by now? or like, do you think you've done things worthy of a townread?
It's a mixed bag. On the plus side, scum tend not to NK me early because suspicion is always kind of on a simmer. Downside is when I'm town I have a harder time getting people on my side when I'm making very sound points because they are suspicious of me for~reasons~(often that they can't explain).
I think it's bc I have a Hunter Thompson avatar instead of a cute cartoon character, but I'll never change.YOUR AD HERE- VP Baltar
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Wow cool. A different person in a different game did a different thing.
Anyone making a point that "one time I saw a person do this thing as the other alignment, and therefore that thing is never AI" is incorrect. You can make that argument about literally any point probably. You need to look at probability. Scum are less likely to be able to genuinely scumhunt D1 because there isn't much material to work with and they are trying to fake something out of nothing. Town's advantage D1 is they are genuinely trying to find scum and don't have to fake anything.YOUR AD HERE- VP Baltar
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I think you're overgeneralizing what I said about snowblaze.In post 706, NoPowerOverMe wrote:I think you are overgeneralizing. Players that are good at playing scum should be good at appearing to scumhunt. It just depends on your skill level. My point is that you can't say player X is definately scum because they said "D1 scumhunting is hard."
Also: odds are, not every player who drew a scum PM is good at being scum.YOUR AD HERE- VP Baltar
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Lol whatIn post 721, Snowblaze wrote:I don't think scum are going to have any problem with my being wagoned, but fair enough, I suppose.YOUR AD HERE- VP Baltar
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If blaze flips scum, here is her buddy. Mark your cards now bingo players!In post 726, NoPowerOverMe wrote:I'm townreading you less now due to your willingness to wagon your townreads. I'm not instantly defending it. I've actually interacted with snow. This reminds me of a previous game where town ganged up on a easy mislynch and they ended up being town. D1 lynches are more often town than scum and this just looks like town to me.YOUR AD HERE- VP Baltar
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My point is this is some garbage LAMIST posting.In post 730, Snowblaze wrote:
...because I’m town?In post 729, VP Baltar wrote:
Lol whatIn post 721, Snowblaze wrote:I don't think scum are going to have any problem with my being wagoned, but fair enough, I suppose.
Yeet
Yeet
YeetYOUR AD HERE- VP Baltar
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It's the right wagon to join.In post 733, NoPowerOverMe wrote:Wow, talk about OMGUSing. Blaze is pretty far from being lynched. Why aren't you concerned about Ico's willingness to join a wagon on her townread?
I'll advise you, the late bus position is going to look bad for you later. Buy that snowblaze stock now while it is hot!YOUR AD HERE- VP Baltar
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Says the guy losing the contest!In post 739, NoPowerOverMe wrote:This seems more like a personality contest than an actual determination of guilt.YOUR AD HERE- VP Baltar
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Have you ever even answered me or others who asked you why I'm suddenly scummy?In post 745, NoPowerOverMe wrote:Glad to hear. Want to wagon him?
Working that overtime to distract from snowblaze. I make no apologies when you are the next yeet upon scum flip. I have tried to advise you on good scum play because this town is already forming an impenetrable phalanx, and yet you refuse me!
It's sad, but a defeat of your own making.
P-edit:
I'm appealing to emotion? Scummy play in general? Alright.YOUR AD HERE- VP Baltar
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So what is the argument to not yeet you? We should trust you're going to do stuff later?In post 774, Snowblaze wrote:
And also that I’m not hunting and being useless because I don’t have strong scumreads on day one.In post 763, NoPowerOverMe wrote:The poor logic is that snow not hunting and being useless = scum.
You keep saying you don't have strong scum reads...well who the hell does D1? You have to take some level of gamble. You're trying to hide behind the lack of info D1 to not actually do anything. That's excuse making and is scummy.
Now is your chance to give some thoughts. If not, then you need to go.YOUR AD HERE- VP Baltar
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I think there is a semi-loose group right now of you, me, Ico, GB, hellbrooks with some side folks from Andres, Tess and NPOM.In post 753, Datisi wrote:mind telling me who you're finding to be the town bloccing here?
I don't think everyone in that group is necessarily town, nor do I think everyone in that group finds each other fully town. But I do think people in that group have enough town reads on them variously from people in that group that yeeting them today is a dwindling possibility.
That puts scum in a tricky spot, particularly if their members are concentrated outside that group.YOUR AD HERE- VP Baltar
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Omg, same. I almost said something earlier, but didn't want to be rude to the modIn post 779, hellbooks wrote:i use maf silver on my main and that mod color is like hilariously unreadableYOUR AD HERE- VP Baltar
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In post 790, Raya36 wrote:In post 779, hellbooks wrote:i use maf silver on my main and that mod color is like hilariously unreadable
That is readable to me!In post 781, VP Baltar wrote:
Omg, same. I almost said something earlier, but didn't want to be rude to the modIn post 779, hellbooks wrote:i use maf silver on my main and that mod color is like hilariously unreadable
Would blue be easier for you to read?YOUR AD HERE- VP Baltar
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Drop the hammer and prove it!In post 799, NoPowerOverMe wrote:VP and Hell are definately scummy. DKK is not looking good but could be bad town.YOUR AD HERE- VP Baltar
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Nope. Just at the first sign of E-1.In post 814, DkKoba wrote:also did snow claim with intent on themYOUR AD HERE- VP Baltar
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Literally everyone still on the snowblaze wagon is pretty solid town reads from most people in the game. A magical testarossa counter wagon emerges from nowhere to stop this elim?
Naw, dawg.
I need to spend some time today to closely dissect what happened, but now I'm more confident in testarossa town. Snowblaze is scum.YOUR AD HERE- VP Baltar
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I'll address this first since it's gonna be a hot second today (or possibly tomorrow) before I can do a detailed reread of the past 10 pages or so.In post 909, Datisi wrote:@baltar, i know you think snowblaze is scum and all that, but can i like, get your opinion on janko
Felt a bit mixed on jank's initial reads of the game since I didn't get snowblaze townread or ico hard scum read at that point. I don't know if he ever actually explained his snow townread.
I agree with you that it's weird to just not comment at all on the snow wagon while saying you're caught up. At the very least, my push there gave us material to look into. I could see jankofan as a snow scumbuddy who was eager to move past that wagon.
Would be interested in a jank explanation of the snow townread now.YOUR AD HERE- VP Baltar
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In post 919, Billy Pilgrim wrote:Really, self-vote already? How many games have you played on here?
In post 921, Billy Pilgrim wrote:I feel like around 20-21-22 some of this game turned into a meta conversation about how to play. I wanted to make a note of it, but I'm not sure what it means.
AM I A CRAZY PERSON WHO SEESDEAD PEOPLETHIS IIOA????
Snow, Billy, {NPOM, JANK or someone else who is tricksy scum}YOUR AD HERE- VP Baltar
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This strikes me as weird. What do you mean their partners abandoned them? What actions would you be expecting?In post 821, DkKoba wrote:u know its be funny for snow to flip scum bc it implies their paetners just straight abandoned them bc i seriously see them acting independently and thats why i tr themYOUR AD HERE- VP Baltar
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I lied. I'm just going to skip breakfast and do this catch up now.
This is my point. The speed of the wagon doesn't matter if literally everyone on it is town. We shouldn't be afraid to be right. Speed wagons that form on scum are actually super powerful because they put the scum in a bad position without a calculated response. I completely think snow is the right play and the counter wagon on testarossa is going to yield a ton of information upon flip.In post 828, Testarossa wrote:but after the wagon I am not so sure what to think of it. It kind of happened a bit too fast for my liking. But I am a bit at a loss because I am town or null on all on the wagon.
Ah, this explains what you said above perhaps. Maybe I'm out of practice here. Is scum day chat a pretty standard function? I did have it in my last couple scum games, but there seemed to be theme/setup reasons in those games for that to exist. I wouldn't have assumed all normal games have scum day chat. What's site meta currently?In post 834, DkKoba wrote:also if u think in a game with 3 scum with so many v high energy players that at the very least snow!scum wouldnt be at the very least be coached in scum chat rn, then thats absurd.
Koba and Aldsukkel are probably the worst of the testarossa votes, imo.
I actually lied, Janks vote is bad too.
There's almost no explanation of this wagon other than "tess uses a lot of words' and "I don't like snow wagon"
lol'dIn post 866, Testarossa wrote:Gosh, I can't wait for Billy to weigh in on all this. On D2.
Translation: "I know tess will flip town, so I'm going to find a spot to park my vote that won't draw suspicion D2"
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What are you on about? Asked a legit question.In post 942, DkKoba wrote:how abt u stop side shading me and say it to my face.
Why did you assume scum have daytalk?YOUR AD HERE- VP Baltar
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That's the question I asked.In post 947, DkKoba wrote:
bc literally every other game on this site has daytalkIn post 945, VP Baltar wrote:
What are you on about? Asked a legit question.In post 942, DkKoba wrote:how abt u stop side shading me and say it to my face.
Why did you assume scum have daytalk?
Is this you playing 3D chess bc lolYOUR AD HERE- VP Baltar
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He hasn't posted as much, so it is harder to read motivation. He's definitely wallpaper though.In post 940, Billy Pilgrim wrote:actually VP- why the push on me and Blaze as opposed to Alduskkel? I legit forgot they were in this game.YOUR AD HERE- VP Baltar
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No clue what you want me to say. This is my third get back here after being gone for 7 years. Didn't know if day chat was site meta now since it wasn't in the old days.In post 949, DkKoba wrote:are you going to respond with something of value or?YOUR AD HERE- VP Baltar
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I gave up on the snow wagon?In post 973, NoPowerOverMe wrote:I don't like that VP just gave up on the snow wagon, and janko is town reading him for it.YOUR AD HERE - VP Baltar
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