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- Andresvmb
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Andresvmb He/HimJack of All Trades
- Andresvmb
He/Him- Jack of All Trades
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Hello all! I’m excited to play my first game here. Let me catch up I was not aware the game had started already. Oh and for those that will ask about my experience or where I come from - I typically play on a small rather newish forum called Mafia451. I think I’ve played north of 100 games there (if you go to it you’ll quickly realize I play basically every game). So that’s a bit of background about me. I don’t recognize anybody from the playerlist so this will be fun, though I did read a few games around the site just to get a feel for the meta here.- Andresvmb
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Andresvmb He/HimJack of All Trades
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He/Him- Jack of All Trades
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I find myself hard agreeing with most of what VP Baltar has already explained regarding Iconeum’s push on NPOM, which I thought was too much on what seemed to me as mildly defensive. So I’m going to place VP Baltar as a Town Lean, though I’ll admit that he certainly sounds like he’s been around, so could be fooling me with the tone.- Andresvmb
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Andresvmb He/HimJack of All Trades
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He/Him- Jack of All Trades
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- Andresvmb
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Andresvmb He/HimJack of All Trades
- Andresvmb
He/Him- Jack of All Trades
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Okay I did not screw that up.
I am voting here for a few reasons. I felt Iconeum was overly eager to cast a Scum net over NPOM, and I would describe the certainty that George Bailey is Town as a factor as well. I have no real certainty on whether Iconeum, NPOM or George Bailey are Town or Scum. I am not going to pretend that I have a solid answer here. But the whole Town slipping thing and arguing so strongly that there was a Town mindset just seems off to me.- Andresvmb
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Andresvmb He/HimJack of All Trades
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No particular reason for why now. I fell asleep while re-reading on my phone and I woke up and decided I would put a vote down.In post 163, Datisi wrote:hi andres, what made you vote ico *now*?- Andresvmb
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Andresvmb He/HimJack of All Trades
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Yeah I have a few leans but the only decent one is VPB Town. I actually had you down as Town since you also made the point that Iconeum's certainty on GB was suspicious in #63, but I am not the biggest fan of your vote on me for obvious reasons. I am way past the point that I SR players that vote me, so I was fine just letting that be, and still overall think you're alright.In post 166, Datisi wrote:do you have feels on any other player (other than baltar i guess)?
I felt JamSV's entrance was Towny (sense of humor is always good), and I am getting negative vibes out of Snowblaze. They were attacking VP Baltar's logic on #105 and I simply do not agree at all. Nothing wrong with disagreeing of course, but it seemed like a lot of shade in an attempt at defend Iconeum, and against a player that just seems Town to me.- Andresvmb
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Andresvmb He/HimJack of All Trades
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He/Him- Jack of All Trades
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I have not narrowed down how I feel about Testarossa or NPOM to be totally honest. Testarossa could be Town for all I know, but I was not feeling the logic in #112. I did not see the Town mindset in Iconeum so aggressively stating that GB was Town and had Townslipped, which Iconeum used as a reason to suspect NPOM (as confirmed by #50). But I mean there seems like there's a real attempt by Testarossa at figuring out what's going on.- Andresvmb
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Andresvmb He/HimJack of All Trades
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He/Him- Jack of All Trades
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Well I do not have any back story with any of you, so I would not know whether Ico's certainty makes him Scum or not (I know more than a few players that are actually extremely good at spotting small things and making very accurate reads, particularly when they have played with each other many times over). I am just explaining the rationale behind some of my views and my vote.In post 169, Datisi wrote:hate to break it to you, but while ico's certainty about george is somewhat suspicious, i don't really think he's scum for it. have you missed me saying i think ico's town in 93? do you think my vote on you makes me more likely to be scum?
by the way, please link posts using the post tags
Code: Select all
[post]126[/post]
becomes: 126
Voting me does not say anything to me about your alignment in a vacuum. But I am new to this place, so before putting a vote on me, your average player would have maybe asked me a few questions or tried to figure out where I was coming from. If you think I have a Scum mindset after engaging with me, then that's whatever.- Andresvmb
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Andresvmb He/HimJack of All Trades
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No of course. Scum make good points all the time - they have all of the information after all. My overall view is just not much changed. I am trusting my original instinct and will update as things evolve.In post 171, Datisi wrote:i'm not a master at reading ico. i was just pointing out that your reasoning for thinking i'm town (me making a point about ico's certainty) might not be true (i don't think he's scum right now) - so i'm wondering how that knowledge affects your read on me.
snippets like"I am way past the point that I SR players that vote me, so I was fine just letting that be, and still overall think you're alright."and"But I am new to this place, so before putting a vote on me, your average player would have maybe asked me a few questions or tried to figure out where I was coming from."make me think you're vaguely not a fan of my vote. i'm hoping to get more concrete opinions out of you, if that makes sense.
And I can't say that I feel particularly strongly about your vote on me. It's early, and it's not easy to make accurate assessments on other players yet.- Andresvmb
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Andresvmb He/HimJack of All Trades
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He/Him- Jack of All Trades
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I think what Iconeum is doing is somewhat remarkable. I’ll say this upfront and perhaps this is an area of disagreement with VP - yes, Scum can be cautious early, but there’s more than a few players that much prefer to be aggressive and push their way, particularly when the Town seems disorganized.
183 and 184 are quite interesting, in that they miss the heart of VPB’s point. VPB appears to be arguing (I will caveat, this is what I’m interpreting the argument to be) that NPOM’s entrance was abrasive, which is probably more likely to come from Town than Scum (Scum being careful and all). And then, arguing that Iconeum is taking advantage of NPOM’s defensive entrance to push a player that Iconeum knows is prone to being voted by Town, since Town might easily misread NPOM’s defensiveness for scuminess (and have done so in a previous game). Not completely unreasonable. Iconeum seems offended by this argument, and first votes VPB for making it (saying his conclusions don’t make any sense), and then me for agreeing.
189 is funny. Iconeum and I have never played before. They have no idea how I play Town or Scum, how I phrase my arguments as either alignment, or what my skills/weaknesses are. Yet they seem to believe that they can point to one post of mine agreeing with another player and come to the definitive conclusion that I’m Scum. Notice that it also comes as a hedge regarding their vote on VPB, followed by a switch onto me in 193. Yet after all of that, they feel like they need to speak directly to me, asking me to re-read VPB’s ISO. Why? If I’m surely Scum, then what is there to convince me about?
Now, again, I’m not trying to say I know for a fact that Iconeum is Scum. That would be absurd. And it’s just not a skill I have. However, the reaction is obviously way over the top, and I don’t see the Town motivation. Not everyone that believes you are Scum can be Scum. But instead of probing or trying to figure out where we are coming from, the primary response was aggressiveness followed by two votes.
208 - I am wholly unmoved by this, and it’s just a blatant appeal to emotion. I mean this is an obviously Scummy post.- Andresvmb
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Andresvmb He/HimJack of All Trades
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Ah no wait, 210 seems to actually explain the reasoning behind the SR on me - my “huge fencesit opening”. I thought the meta here involved being somewhat detailed about your views. Can someone explain this one to me? Because from where I sit, this looks like a completely made up reason justifying an action taken after a vote on them.- Andresvmb
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Andresvmb He/HimJack of All Trades
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NPOM is making a lot of consecutive posts I agree with. Namely, 224, 226 and 231. In fact, the last one meshes quite well with what I’m arguing. I share VPB’s caution about the intent to vote thing (in my experience, when Town feel a certain way, they tend to just vote directly and not make a show of it), so on balance I’m not convinced NPOM is Town, but I’m leaning that way.- Andresvmb
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Andresvmb He/HimJack of All Trades
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I will accept this. I don’t agree it did not make sense, but you are probably right in that I was reading more shade into your post than there really is.In post 194, Snowblaze wrote:
That’s... not what I was doing? I was just pointing out something that didn’t make sense?In post 167, Andresvmb wrote:I am getting negative vibes out of Snowblaze. They were attacking VP Baltar's logic on #105 and I simply do not agree at all. Nothing wrong with disagreeing of course, but it seemed like a lot of shade in an attempt at defend Iconeum, and against a player that just seems Town to me.- Andresvmb
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Andresvmb He/HimJack of All Trades
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The last paragraph in 112 from Testarossa is what’s keeping me from calling Testarossa hard Town (any update from you on this @Testarossa would be appreciated). The whole approach, the way Testarossa asks questions (for example in 113), all seem to come from a Town mindset for me. For example, the observation regarding the RVS vote from Billy Pilgrim after making a strong argument that NPOM was Scum is a good one. 114 assumes a devil’s advocate type position also, which again is totally reasonable (and the probing about what’s driving VPB’s read of NPOM is definitely good).In post 197, Snowblaze wrote:@Andre, can you explain your thoughts on Testarossa in more detail? 168 just feels like you’re saying “I would call her town except I disagree with her reads so I can’t”.
So yeah, at least initially and after re-reading the ISO, I see Testarossa as Lean Town.- Andresvmb
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Andresvmb He/HimJack of All Trades
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I am shading Iconeum for speaking to me directly because it is not genuine probing. Notice that they only attacked me as definite Scum after I voted them, yet felt it was still important to try and direct me away from them (presumably, if I question VPB’s logic, and realize it’s wrong, I’ll move away). So for me, that ship has sailed to some extent. They are obviously going to disagree with VPB’s assessment of the situation - that’s fine. It’s the stated agitation about two players probing their slot that just seems Scummy to me. I did not count all of the votes on me, but it seems as if I’ve garnered more votes than Iconeum, yes? You don’t see me lashing out at people for their view. They are wrong, and I’m hoping I can seem more obvious Town as the game goes along. But again, none of you have played with me again so I could not possibly expect that everybody is going to read me correctly.- Andresvmb
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Andresvmb He/HimJack of All Trades
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Also, your skepticism about me being non-committal is fair. But step into my shoes for a minute - this is literally my first game on this site. Do any of you expect me to have pinpoint reads about players that have a lot of experience playing Mafia? I’ve been around right - the guys that sound the best and can keep their cool and make solid arguments are not always Town. If anything, VPB’s style of play very much strikes me as someone that can manipulate Town quite well. If I was saying that VPB was definitive Town or Scum, then you should be more worried about my alignment.- Andresvmb
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Andresvmb He/HimJack of All Trades
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- Andresvmb
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Andresvmb He/HimJack of All Trades
- Andresvmb
He/Him- Jack of All Trades
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189 seems like a strong attack no? And I’m not making super broad points about how everybody plays Mafia. But do you not agree that the agitation and obvious anger from Iconeum (Caps seem like an effective way of communicating anger) are not a bit over the top over two votes?In post 261, Datisi wrote:
i actually didn't notice ico attacking you as "definite scum", could you point that out? and like, you're saying as if "lashing out at votes = scum" and "not lashing out = town", which is not always the caseIn post 253, Datisi wrote:andres, is there a difference in your mind between ico's 210 (the part about you) and my 162? if so, can you talk about it?- Andresvmb
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Andresvmb He/HimJack of All Trades
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I have not been fencesitting. Please point out to me how I’m playing like I’m sitting on the sidelines waiting for people to chew each other out.In post 265, Datisi wrote:
if skepticism about you being non-committal is fair, is skepticism about you being fence-sitty also fair?In post 258, Andresvmb wrote:Also, your skepticism about me being non-committal is fair.
[snip]
If I was saying that VPB was definitive Town or Scum, then you should be more worried about my alignment.
also very disagree with the second point, but dunno how AI that is- Andresvmb
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Andresvmb He/HimJack of All Trades
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You’re entirely focused on the one read I gave much earlier, but are not looking at the rest of my posts. I won’t be voting VPB soon. I think VPB is Town. I believe we are coming from similar places. VPB is experienced, so I am not going to pretend I’m married to this read.In post 271, Datisi wrote:
this is what i see as fence-sitty. "could be town but uhh he could be fooling me." are we using the terms differently?In post 126, Andresvmb wrote:So I’m going to place VP Baltar as a Town Lean, though I’ll admit that he certainly sounds like he’s been around, so could be fooling me
I mean I was called as a huge fence sitter by Iconeum. This is the sort of thing that is typically reserved for players when they see a wagon building, have expressed a view that said player is Town, but they leave an opening to hop on to that wagon to ensure that Town is eliminated and not Scum.- Andresvmb
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Andresvmb He/HimJack of All Trades
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That is quite clearly not what I was doing (putting words in your mouth). I’m being dismissive of the argument that I have been fencesitting or sitting on the sidelines (made by Iconeum) because it’s a bad one. And since you seem to be siding there, I was asking you to point out how my play can be interpreted this way.In post 272, Datisi wrote:
also i never said that, so please don't put words in my mouthIn post 268, Andresvmb wrote:Please point out to me how I’m playing like I’m sitting on the sidelines waiting for people to chew each other out.- Andresvmb
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Andresvmb He/HimJack of All Trades
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Assume for a moment that I have you wrong (I don’t think so, but bear with me). And that you are not convinced I’m Scum. How is this supposed to be helpful again? You are free to tunnel me all you want. I’m interpreting your reaction and arguments as mostly coming from a Scum mindset. But maybe it’s just how you communicate.In post 277, Iconeum wrote:
you quote me right now where i'm calling you definite scum or i'm tunneling you for the rest of this game- Andresvmb
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Andresvmb He/HimJack of All Trades
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- Andresvmb
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Andresvmb He/HimJack of All Trades
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When a player immediately votes back someone who is voting their slot, it very often gets looked at as OMGUS’ing because it is hard to see such a move as genuine. If I had to boil down my skepticism of your slot into one argument, it would be that.In post 287, Iconeum wrote:
this is the definition of omgusIn post 285, Datisi wrote:
voting someone purely because they voted you?In post 283, Andresvmb wrote:Also, can somebody other than Iconeum come up with a definition of OMGUS’ing that most of us can agree on?
it's clearly not what i'm doing
and i'm extremely sick and tired of these misreps
I also find the constant appeal to emotion difficult to interpret. You appear “agitated” and angry or upset about how VPB and I are reading you. This is not constructive.- Andresvmb
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Andresvmb He/HimJack of All Trades
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It’s funny, I can be guilty of this too. But I try my very best not to be openly hostile because when these arguments get heated to the point where there’s no turning back, and it actually contains both Town, Scum can so easily hide behind it.
I think my suspicion and vote are fair, to be fully transparent. But I also want to see some players that have not posted for a while come back and share some views.- Andresvmb
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Andresvmb He/HimJack of All Trades
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Can you point me to a game where Ico has had this reaction? I was reading Smuggler’s Port (in which Ico was Town and survived until Endgame) and the way in which they approached the game and responded to some limited pressure seems very different to me.In post 293, Datisi wrote:
*waves*In post 292, VP Baltar wrote:Perhaps people who have played with Icon before can weigh in and say if this is typical behavior.
ico can get very annoyed at scumreads he considers unfair, it's not scum!indicative
your thoughts on andres?- Andresvmb
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Andresvmb He/HimJack of All Trades
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I did not read the setup in detail - I was more looking for combativeness after a SR read. What I’m seeing in that game is a much more relaxed attitude in general, probing players who still don’t read Ico as Town with some light-hearted jabs.In post 295, Datisi wrote:i mean, it is very different because very shortly after receiving said pressure, ico claimed Port Authority, which made him confirmed town, so... (also how do you miss that when the entire game was revolving around it?)
i can probably dig around our games later on, i'll get back to you.- Andresvmb
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Andresvmb He/HimJack of All Trades
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I’m keeping Testarossa, Datisi and VP Baltar in my Town pool, and I’m going to lay off Iconeum. Frankly, Testarossa’s deference to Datisi there, and my TR of both, means I am probably barking up the wrong tree.
I’m liking hellbooks and GB’s push on Snowblaze, so VOTE: Snowblaze. There’s not a whole lot of posts from hellbooks, but certainly a lot I can agree on. And Snowblaze’s ISO strikes me for sure as a lot of busy work, some empty questions, and no stances or reads. GB highlighted the relevant post from hellbooks in 307.
@Testarossa, the only thing I can say about why Ico might have pushed a Town slip type argument in favor of GB to go after NPOM is if Ico wanted some easy Town cred defending the guy most under pressure, who say Ico knows is Town. But now that I see this in writing, I will admit that I feel it’s a stretch. It would have been a lot easier to go after NPOM directly and not rely on a secondary read for it.- Andresvmb
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Andresvmb He/HimJack of All Trades
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See my last post above.In post 303, Billy Pilgrim wrote:@Andres - I see you think Icon is scummy and VP is town. You have any other reads?- Andresvmb
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Andresvmb He/HimJack of All Trades
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I can see that you disagree. To be honest, I don’t feel like explaining myself multiple times. It’s in my ISO. Definitely why I feel how I do about VPB and Testarossa is there. I also feel like Datisi has made a lot of valid points regarding Ico. It would be silly for me to ignore all of that.In post 323, DkKoba wrote:why are they in your townpool lool- Andresvmb
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Andresvmb He/HimJack of All Trades
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I’ll catch up more properly later I actually have to do some work today - just instinctively, I can’t say that I find DkKoba Scummy. I’ve hopped off Ico you all can see that. But the push seems obstinate and genuine. What’s the point of sticking out like that as Scum if the wagon is losing steam and you’re just attracting a lot of attention? Why not vote for someone who is barely here even? Does this really seem like the play of Scum?- Andresvmb
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Andresvmb He/HimJack of All Trades
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I’m not clearing DkKoba. But their entrance has been sarcastic from the very start. Just look at how they have been responding to my reads. And the self-voting is whatever. I have self-hammered while screaming for someone’s head as Town. Sometimes you have to do what you have to do to help the Team.- Andresvmb
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Andresvmb He/HimJack of All Trades
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Specifically 323, 328. Also, drunk posting is more often than not Town postingIn post 512, Datisi wrote:sarcastic?- Andresvmb
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Andresvmb He/HimJack of All Trades
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In any case, not everybody wants to spend a tremendous amount of time explaining themselves. I have seen a lot of players simply act on instinct and vote. The objective is to suss out Scum, and yeah it’s usually better not to annoy other people so that your wagons succeed, but not everybody plays like that.- Andresvmb
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Andresvmb He/HimJack of All Trades
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It’s Andrés. And why would I care about pocketing your slot? Everybody is hating on you hahaIn post 521, DkKoba wrote:Im probably gettimg pocketed by andrew but i need all the support i can get on the ico wagon- Andresvmb
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Andresvmb He/HimJack of All Trades
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Andresvmb He/HimJack of All Trades
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So when I put out a read that has some caution because it’s not strong, I’m fencesitting. But when I put out a stronger TR, I’m pocketing?In post 627, Datisi wrote:
i do not know (◕︿◕✿) andres is giving me that big Pocketing Koba Vibes, and just, pointing out in 322 and 327 how he's probably barking up the wrong tree, how his townreads are townreading ico, how i'm making a lot of valid points (and also pointing out there's no longer voting ico in 507 for some reason?) and is just like that now back. however i'm not done talking to janko and he's kinda Not Here right now so it's a bit hard judge where his head's at.In post 623, NoPowerOverMe wrote:@Datisi who is the wolf on Ico? Let's wagon!
You have been very strongly defending Ico, and that made me doubt myself. But I have also said multiple times that I really do think Ico is Scum. You aren’t really trying to get my motivation or look at things from my perspective. You just think you’re right and I’m wrong, and therefore I’m Scum. Well you’re wrong. And why are you surprised that I’m back voting a slot that I have been consistently arguing against?- Andresvmb
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Andresvmb He/HimJack of All Trades
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Ico has directly engaged people voting their slot to try and dissuade them not once, not twice, but three times! All in one day. Calling each and every one of those players Scum, and placing votes there immediately after facing pressure. This is not your typical Town play. I really don’t understand why this is all being dismissed as oh, but Town can also do that.- Andresvmb
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Do you think it’s even remotely likely that three different players all on D1 would separately make arguments against one Town slot, at different times and without obvious coordination (I hate to point this out but I had already moved off you when DkKoba came in and started aggressively pushing you) and all those players be Scum? So why have you decided each and every time to attack the players who seem to have more openly suspected you early in the game, to the point where you’ve placed three different votes on those three different players? Could it be because you take votes as personal slights as Town and feel like you should push all those players? Maybe. I just think it’s more likely that this is Scum motivated - and a real fight for simple survival.
And what’s my Scum motivation for hopping back on your wagon exactly? I already know it’s not an easy choice. In fact it feels very annoying to have to do this. So why is my vote now finally revealing enough for Datisi to vote me? There’s so much resistance to this that honestly I almost can’t resist it. So yeah, that’s how I’m reading the situation.- Andresvmb
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I’m just going to also state this because it’s becoming rather tedious - meta arguments from the player themselves are not convincing. Listen I’m not great at hunting Scum. I’m not. I’m far better I think at pointing out Town and figuring out the game collectively via process of elimination. And my gut is telling me that Dk is just Town. I just think they have the game broadly right. So that’s why I am where I am. But I’m not hiding behind Dk. If we are wrong then yeah I suspect it’ll cost me. And that’s fine. I’m really trying my best here.- Andresvmb
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Okay but you’re getting in people’s faces only after they found a reason to vote you. That’s the interesting part. It’s not just that you’re confrontational right. Because if that was it then sure, that could be a good way of sorting alignment. Making people trip by rattling their cage can work. I’ve definitely seen it, though I’m not a big proponent of this because it’s just difficult to keep things under control.- Andresvmb
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Asking how many Scum are in a game is not a bad question. I had a general sense for how many Scum - but site meta can vary. In my home site, Scum have such a bad record that games are Scum sided on purpose by Mods on average, with more Scum than you would typically expect. I get that this is the forum for more normal mechanics, but it’s still not ridiculous. And I don’t find it AI in any case.- Andresvmb
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It’s difficult for me to trust that you will point at the correct AI things to read your slot by, wouldn’t you agree? So I’m using my past experience to look for things I typically see a certain category of players do (at least to start), and see if they’re pointing me in the right direction. Then I’ll see more information, and recalibrate. Obviously reading games where you’ve played might help, but people are also constantly correcting for what they perceive to be Scum tells so it’s not fool proof.- Andresvmb
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You’re overextending my argument and making it sound absurd. I never argued that you had “instantaneously” voted players after they voted you. That would so bad and obvious that only a terrible player would do that. But it’s a rather quick progression from seeing a vote against you to placing a vote on them.
What DkKoba is doing btw - of ignoring you because they strongly SR you. That’s totally expected. You can’t convince Scum that they’re Scum is the logic. Far more experienced players than me have consistently quoted this back at me.- Andresvmb
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I think it’s not an accurate statement that DkKoba has not been engaging with Datisi. They’ve clearly exchanged views on other players (Testarossa for example, where they disagree). Datisi seems very set on their ways, and is completely unwilling to vote for you. Clearly DkKoba feels otherwise. Sometimes convincing one player is not worth the effort.- Andresvmb
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I’m not engaging Aldus on their read of you because we’re diametrically opposed, and they can read my reasoning and decide for themselves. I don’t have to fight every single player to come to my point of view. That would be far too exhausting.In post 661, Iconeum wrote:
but i also don't see you engaging with aldus on why he's wrong or wrightIn post 659, Andresvmb wrote:I really don’t see how you’re bleeding Town - I think that’s a terrible assessment. It’s fine if they want to excuse away some of what you’re doing because they’ve seen you do it elsewhere or whatever, but argue that it comes from certain Town... I’m going to disagree on that one.
why is that?
as for the bleeding town part... you'll have to ask him. But I think I know.- Andresvmb
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You know, the vast majority of games I play are short deadlines. Typically 48 hours, and rarely longer than 72 hours. So what I’m doing is I’m waiting on players to express themselves on the leading wagons of the game (that tend to form quickly), making a decision, and then re-ordering the game based on new information from the flip. I explain myself most of the time, but extensive case building just seems silly to me. This constant inflating and deflating of wagons is super tedious, and the vast majority of it is useless when sorting players. It’s the hard stances that matter, and the motivation behind them. For me, how people express themselves about the leading wagons and their reasoning is critical moving forward. I want to see that happen. This constant back and forth isn’t helpful. And I won’t figure out everyone’s alignment D1. But you can probe players once you have more information - and we just don’t have that yet.- Andresvmb
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Also I’ve seen some posts from Datisi and Ico asking me about which points I was saying were good ones when argued against Ico being Scum (like 674). Well, the main point being argued for why Ico is Town is that a lot of the reactions we’re seeing here are from frustrated Town, and simply Ico’s personality (e.g. 469). I can’t dismiss this entirely right. I think DkKoba and VPB are Town. I know I’m Town. So all those “retaliatory” votes I’ll call them (my interpretation) don’t vibe well with me. But if it’s driven by personality (and I do rely on meta for a lot of my reads typically, though obviously hard to do in a game where I don’t know anyone), then I would think your read is more likely to be accurate than mine. And why do I Town Read you Datisi? Well, you have been probing me pretty hard over my views, and I think it has a lot to do with the fact that you don’t agree with me obviously. But despite you know voting me, I can’t say you have written me off or tunneled me, and it feels genuine.- Andresvmb
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@Testarossa I don’t know what to make of Ico voting Snow. I’ll be honest - it’s entirely dependent on what Snow flips if they do. It’s a rarity that I get to call the Scum Team completely D1, so I’m not assuming that all of a sudden I got them both right and this is a bus. I doubt it. I haven’t gotten strong Scum vibes from Snow, but I can’t say I’m a huge fan of not taking any strong stances D1 at all. Snow is arguing that they are a cautious player. Sure. But you shouldn’t be surprised people SR that, since it’s a typical Scum position to take.- Andresvmb
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@NPOM, I can’t square your 222, 224, 226 and 231 with your 679, which explains your vote on me. You were basically in total agreement with VPB and my early push on Ico, and then you turned around and voted me arguing that disagreed with my push on Ico, and said that you couldn’t see “the Town purpose” in 682. The last few posts I’m quoting came around when the wagon against me seemed to be building some steam, and the earlier ones came when the momentum was decidedly against Ico. Care to explain?
Of course, now you’re back to SR’ing Ico for jumping on Snow, who they had claimed a TR earlier on. How has the last sequence of events influenced your read on me?- Andresvmb
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847 - @Snow, please explain how I’m “fence-sitting”. Please. I’m waiting.
{VPB, hellbooks, Me} as a Scum pool is, from my POV, pretty awful. And yeah, I’m still SR you Snow. But there’s too many TR’s being thrown your way from people I am TR’ing that I thought I would avoid your slot for now.
857 - @Testarossa I was somewhat swayed by the argument that you are being overly hedgy. I also find it interesting that you don’t seem to participate all that much in the game until you’ve been run up. And you’re right, it is a bit of a 180 since I did put you in my pool of players I would not vote for earlier. But much like Ico, I think it’s a personality thing - you’re careful and analytical from what I can tell, and I tend to TR that. But if I’m being honest, that’s primarily personality driven. Your 858 is valid, but I’m already suspecting NPOM and have repeatedly called him opportunistic, so I’m not surprised they voted you. You TR NPOM though (861) is, I would argue, kind of silly.
862 - you know, I have my convictions, but I’m also practical. There are some players I really wouldn’t vote right now [Datisi, VPB, DkKoba], and there are others that if enough of the people I am beginning to trust vote there, I will also.
And yeah, your Scum Pool is way too broad, so I’m fine with my vote. You have 7 players (865) in it, which is literally more than half the game.
The criticism about my “smooth” transition from Ico to Snow btw is quite ridiculous, given how hard I fought that fight just to get nowhere. - Andresvmb
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