Mini Normal 2157 | Over

[jankofan]

hey there! sorry I had issues with my account and couldn't physically post on this thread, but now I'm good. Having just read through the last 6 pages of the game,

I'm currently at
closer to town: koba, snow, vp, gb
closer to scum: testarossa, iconeum, billy
idk about: everyone else.
VOTE: iconeum

[jankofan]

I've read the whole game. Do you mean what gb was saying re your push on npom? If so, yeah kinda. It feels like you might've sensed an opportunity to attract some attention in your push on npom. starting a fight there doesn't jive with someone who has no agenda in this game other than solving. contrast that to snow who's sort of feeling her way through, it feels like she's legit trying to make sense of whats happening. And then how you've progressed in the game, my impression is that you're sort of annoyed at being called out, are doubling down on tone/aggression and force yourself into a townread position.

[jankofan]

I've read the whole game. Do you mean

do i agree with what vp

was saying re your push on npom? If so, yeah kinda. It feels like you might've sensed an opportunity to attract some attention in your push on npom. starting a fight there doesn't jive with someone who has no agenda in this game other than solving. contrast that to snow who's sort of feeling her way through, it feels like she's legit trying to make sense of whats happening. And then how you've progressed in the game, my impression is that you're sort of annoyed at being called out, are doubling down on tone/aggression and force yourself into a townread position.

ebwop

[jankofan]

koba tr is a sharing reads and perspectives thing, snow i've said, vp is probably the weakest townread in that pool but yeah seems helpful to town and i think we share similar perspectives on things so far, gb just seems like a chill townie in tone.
billy i'll have to review actually, weakest scum pooler for sure, testa just seems to be focusing on the wrong things and their tones reading tryhardy. iconeum is explained above.

[jankofan]

did you happen to read the post i made where it shows the faulty logic used by VP in his push on me?

VP used meta from a game where NPOW was mislynched by town, and scum just sat by. Then VP applied it to this game where NPOW is once again being pushed, so his logical conclusion should be that it's probably town again but instead ends up scumreading me.

I got the impression that in VP's game scum chose to leave them alone and eventually NPOM attracted enough attention to fuel an all town wagon on them. Whereas in this game scum (you) have chosen to jump on them early and use the concept that NPOM is safely pushable to attract neutral/positive attention

early in the game

. Pretty sure thats what vp's point was? Anyway my read on you extends past that concept and includes your progression from the early push even though it does circle back and tie in vp's initial argument.

[jankofan]

[quote="In post 430

wait you are townreading Dkkoba?

based on shared reads? with whom exactly?

and could you point out exactly what *perspective* this is you are talking about?[/quote]
yeah, i'm townreading them. Based on having come to similar tentative conclusions, namely about you, snow, vp, testa, and even their tr on datisi, its like i'm getting there.
Had a brief list of notes as i was reading the game marking tentative conclusions and like all of them? even the original reads from koba were a match with my notes list.

[jankofan]

Whereas in this game scum (you) have chosen to jump on them early and use the concept that NPOM is safely pushable to attract neutral/positive attention early in the game. Pretty sure thats what vp's point was? Anyway my read on you extends past that concept and includes your progression from the early push even though it does circle back and tie in vp's initial argument.

How could I have known that NPOW is or isn't a safe push? I've never played with the dude before.
What progression did I make according to you?

I mean, you could probably tell based on just their first few posts, i think. And i think i explained before its like there was an agenda to starting a fight with them then and there, it just didn't seem towny to me. And ever since then its like, you're sort of overeager to engage with people but only about the idea that they're SRing you because you think if you can draw enough attention to the topic of you being scum then people will be convinced you'd never be so brazen unless you were town. and thats unnatural to want to do as town imo because what would that even achieve?. and the bits where you're scumhunting don't seem sincere in comparison.

[jankofan]

Whereas in this game scum (you) have chosen to jump on them early and use the concept that NPOM is safely pushable to attract neutral/positive attention early in the game. Pretty sure thats what vp's point was? Anyway my read on you extends past that concept and includes your progression from the early push even though it does circle back and tie in vp's initial argument.

How could I have known that NPOW is or isn't a safe push? I've never played with the dude before.
What progression did I make according to you?

I mean, you could probably tell based on just their first few posts, i think. And i think i explained before its like there was an agenda to starting a fight with them then and there, it just didn't seem towny to me. And ever since then its like, you're sort of overeager to engage with people but only about the idea that they're SRing you because you think if you can draw enough attention to the topic of you being scum then people will be convinced you'd never be so brazen unless you were town. and thats unnatural to want to do as town imo because what would that even achieve?. and the bits where you're scumhunting don't seem sincere in comparison.

[jankofan]

Oops, double post sorry : /

[jankofan]

how do you feel about dkkoba's complete unwillingness to provide any kind of backing for those reads?

Its like, idk kinda frustrating if you're the one being pushed by them i guess, but they have a right to play like that i guess? But i mean its early in the game so i think its worth just seeing how they progress.

[jankofan]

janko, do you think getting annoyed at people pushing you is scum!indicative?

talk to me friend

hey there! umm its context dependant and playstyle dependant. on the whole no, both alignments probably tend to get annoyed at being pushed. Although town might be annoyed i feel like they have a strong focus in and around scumhunting and that should be visible despite their frustration. Whereas, scum can just get a bit tunnel visioned defending themselves and having a lack of general awareness about the game and other slots since they naturally have to manually direct energy toward scum hunting since they feel defending themselves and tunnel visioning on their own pressure are more vital prospects. Whereas town are naturally inclined to scum hunt and task themselves with figuring out whether those pushing them are scum. I feel like scum would focus more on the pressure/push arguments (like what i think icon is doing) whereas town would also be visibly focusing on the persons pushing them and who is scum in general.

[jankofan]

koba you stole my pagetop

[jankofan]

VOTE: terra that is E-1

[jankofan]

Hey @datisi so the reason I neglected to answer this

i'm not sure i get this? like to me it feels ico is solving and it also focused on the persons pushing them? like can you elaborate on this?

also, you're townreading me, yeah? (i'm assuming by 436) how come, i feel like our reads are complete polar oppsoites right now?

was because koba said this immediately after

ico exhibiting the scum mindset of being frustrated over being scumread over what they perceive as the "wrong reasons"

which is what I was trying and failing to say in the original post you quoted. I guess it was lazy of me to have expected you to make that connection and it looks like you just wanted a response from me and not necessarily a response to what you were asking me to clarify, so here it is.
jumped on the testa wagon because it seemed good and i didn't really have that much to add to the case so why talk for no reason yknow

[jankofan]

the posted you quoted was me trying to say what koba said in 468 just to reiterate.

yeah its a specific way of getting frustrated thats a scumtrait/scum indicative and its what koba said ^^^^^^

yeah I mean im not trying to lurk, been caught up in irl over the past couple days.

[jankofan]

andres and vp are town

[jankofan]

vp was reacting to stuff similar to how i would in their catch up post, and I'm seeing sincere motivation and perception behind andres' posting

npom could be scum. "missing" snows claim and asking her what it was instead of just scrolling back and finding it is giving me scum pings. seems to be "active lurking".

anyway i'm sheeping koba's list and would vote to hang in {testa, ico, npom}

[jankofan]

mm, yeah you're town as well datisi

no it doesn't make them scum, it just pinged me. why is that hard to understand?

if you think i didn't comment on the snow wagon for a reason, voting me and not snow doesn't really make sense

[jankofan]

, why would I fake a read to justify jumping on a wagon that doesn't even exist?
I mean yeah I think npom was trying to emulate towny idleness with that comment.
also the snow wagon thing is way more reach than the read that you're criticizing me for is

[jankofan]

@datisi Ok I guess? still feels like a reach but w/e i cant really say im familiar enough with the game that i know whos sring npom, but its moot anyway because the read isn't faked at all. npom dedicates three posts to talking about how he missed the claim asking snow what it was. my intuitions about time management say that a cursory look at the last page would've been a lot quicker than writing three posts but i could see scum trying to emulate that sense of being idle and casual about the situation.

I'm townreading you because i feel like you're pushing me and it feels like you really want to be right about your take on me and that motivation and the tone that comes with it are obviously town

im pretty sure im still tring snow. of the ppl on snows wagon ico feels a lot like scum and im not sure who else was even on it

[jankofan]

I think the reason I'm tring snow is that she seems like she'a actually introspecting and also that she seems focused on things that people who are solving tend to be focused on

[jankofan]

Translation: "I know tess will flip town, so I'm going to find a spot to park my vote that won't draw suspicion D2"

hmmm

[jankofan]

npom why was starting a wagon on me better than continuing to apply significant pressure to a significant wagon on testa? a few pages ago you said either of us would be good wagons, you must have found a distinction between us either I'm scum or they're town. which is it and why?

[jankofan]

OMGUSing my tree.

being okay with quick lynching.

Constantly accusing people of not responding to you when they have.

Being okay with GB lurking.

Being more interesting in building towncred than gamesolving.

Need I go on?

this all in the last few pages? did I miss something?

[jankofan]

was jam replaced or are they still playing

[jankofan]

bob pushing me if scum is an attempt to pocket datisi. thinks my townread on snow was a white knight attempt which only works if you're scum reading me independently since its ascribing scum motivation to otherwise normal actions.

snow's exit/Bob's entrance were also scummy

this is E-1 (deja vu)

VOTE: bob

[jankofan]

also ignores that I had snow town before the wagon started anyway and tries to paint it as if I came up with it to white knight.

[jankofan]

lol I said I had *just* read the last 6 pages. I had read the previous pages aswell beforehand while not being able to post.

[jankofan]

well guess I better respond to that "case" lol,
(1) I had read the whole game at that point and you misinterpreting what I had said doesn't make me scum
(2) yeah that response to datisi was me explaining in other words your exhibiting the scum mindset of specifically being annoyed because you're being pushed for the "wrong reasons".
(3) dumb to assume I'm sorting by associations at this stage, where did I say you and npom were partners? aside from that don't you townread each other now? lol
(4) why would I sheep datisi's reads? don't think their reads are particularly sheep worthy tbh from the impression I have of them so far.
anyway why tf do you think it's obvious i would assume datisi is right just because she's town?

[jankofan]

I agree with other ppl snow's rep out was like trying not to be defeatist in tone and Bob just reads like a classic scum rob

[jankofan]

robot*

[jankofan]

I don't sort people by how similar their reads are to me

it is a scum mindset. it's like a mental leak because you know I'm not wrong about the read but you disagree that I should have it and you've been spilling that particular emotion

[jankofan]

town!snow wouldn't be trying not to be defeatist because they have nothing to be defeated by/about. they're just being misread by people.

[jankofan]

scum are more prone to defeatism than town when they get pushed because their entire job is to survive. I said the exit post feels like it's trying not to appear defeatist.

I mean I feel like you don't understand that I'm reading people based on shallow intuitions at this stage with no flips and you're expecting perfectly logical reasons for having voted people and using that as the basis to push me is scummy aswell. which makes sense because I'm pretty sure you're actually scum.

that's actually where the idea of scum robot comes into it. scum don't have intuitions because they have the burden of not having anything to have intuitions about, nothing to solve they're just filling gaps on ways that are convenient. bob feels like he's latching onto details and trying to logic his way through reads and it's not reading that their compelled by their own statements. reading back over snow in hindsight I get the same vibe actually. contrast that to datisi who seems pretty emotionally invested in her read and push on me being justified and corroborated which would be harder to fake.

[jankofan]

also i'm just skimming along but around page 54 bob is being very townie i don't think i want to kill him : (

[jankofan]

bob pushing me if scum is an attempt to pocket datisi.

also i'm just skimming along but around page 54 bob is being very townie i don't think i want to kill him : (

lol

[jankofan]

which read is shallow and surface level? what do you want me to reconsider about?

ye seems genuine but very wrong : (

and lol yeah pretty much. why are you over complicating the game? you're obv town to literally everyone in the game

[jankofan]

Normal 2157: Succulents

Moderator: Raya36
Backup Moderator: Umlaut
Setup: schadd_
Reviewed: gobbledygook & implosion

Player List:

Spoiler: Living

1. Testarossa
   
   
2. DkKoba
   JamSV
   
   
3. Datisi
   
   
4. Alduskkel
   
   
5. bob3141
   Snowblaze
   
   
6. Iconeum
   
   
7. VP Baltar
   
   
8. GeorgeBailey
   
   
9. Andresvmb
   
   
10. jankofan
    
    
11. NoPowerOverMe
    
    
12. hellbooks
    
    
13. Billy Pilgrim

Spoiler: Dead

Events:

Day 1 Starts. Ends in

(expired on 2020-08-13 23:15:00)

lol what ico is doing right now is way more white knighty than my TR on snow earlier

[jankofan]

How about I just answer your questions on day 2 if the bob/snow slot doesn't flip scum because I kinda atm its like why bother honestly..

The snow exit post is pretty small if you're not seeing what I'm seeing then its like a shrug moment. Which posts did i reconsider.. like most of them, snow seemed to be struggling to post anything meaningful.

Having logical reads is fine but I think you'd have to be (scum pushing me right now lol) to think part of this game isn't based on genuine impressions that can't be formulated exactly in words or through logical process and I'm not seeing the genuine impressions from that slot.

[jankofan]

loool it makes perfect sense that i reconsider snow's posts after the rep in/out and the newcomer pings me scum

[jankofan]

part of why i'm not motivated to answer your questions or case bob is that I figured they were already flipping so why bother and also you're probably scum so lol

I mean i think you're trying to argue lack of effort = scum atm which is funny considering how mad you have gotten at legitimate cases made against you

[jankofan]

okay well I legit think the team are at least two of {Billy, GB, snow and ico} at this point.
I recommend hammering bob, my wagon is the scummier of the two re the people on it for sure which means bob is probs scum
datisi if I get hammered then nice going lol
unsure if there is intent to hammer on me if someone states it I will claim

[jankofan]

actually I think koba signalled intent early (speaking of which, wtf koba?)
I'm vt
hang ico after me

[jankofan]

ok koba counting on you to get ico tmr I think datisi is actually just town lmao

[jankofan]

I did declare intent, i noticed pockety vibes from u early on

ok but you said I was saying things you subconsciously noticed and vice versa so I'm pretty sure that's moreso mindmeld

[jankofan]

hang ico after me

lol no

koba, here's the thing. ico is town. without me, you're not getting him through. either start convincing me why ico's scum, or it's not happening.

what's with these dumb arrogant posts @datisi?
you act like you're the gatekeeper of ico or something lol
anyway bob is actually scum. read their iso and you'll see the survival tactics. get them, not me

[jankofan]

I'm out, gl town if i'm hanged. town is koba andres and datisi. ico bob and Billy are pinging me scum. VP and GP seem closer to town. hang ico or bob after I'm gone. tyx ciao

[jankofan]

also for those scumreading npom me and him are not scum partners so.... yeah food for thought

[jankofan]

ok hellbooks is town as well

[jankofan]

lool andres is town

[jankofan]

I'm vt you guys suck at mafia : /

[jankofan]

literally flip just flip either bob or ico tomorrow pls

[jankofan]

if janko flips town i wont forgive u

i'll forgive myself

mediocrity is easily forgiven

[jankofan]

I'm vt you guys suck at mafia : /

if its any condolonces i had no intention on hammering u and was just trying to get other ppl to spew + i heavily PR read u??? so i thought u were claiming pr and we were abt to yeet bob right then and there

yeah I kinda thought so :/. aldus is lame.
oh no what gave off pr vibes to you?
also shoutout to datisi who's probs town but counterwagoned me over a red slot #scumvp

[jankofan]

ditto 1680

[jankofan]

@raya

great modding, especially considering it's your first

you can release my PT without redactions as soon as it fits you

wp town .
I thought Andres played really well being obvtown the whole game and think that probably made the difference.
Props to vp for dismantling a guilty on them d2, that was really slick and fun to watch.