Newbie 2023 - Hedgehogs - Day 3

[innocentvillager]

huehuehuehuehuehuehuehue

[innocentvillager]

we meet again... spiderman... and NS

[innocentvillager]

wow this game is 5 site SEs, 1 pretty experienced MS newb and 3 players with decent offsite experience

hardly really a newbie, eh?

[innocentvillager]

jesus Nash looking scummy with post 1 already

why u do dis

[innocentvillager]

[innocentvillager]

brb going to solve the game NS and then we can jumpstart this game.

[innocentvillager]

Townpings from excited!IV

Townpings from Nash pointing out that "excited!IV" SHOULD give you townpings!

[innocentvillager]

My offsite experience is basically trolling in Town of Salem and somehow finding all mafia while being an asshat, works 70% of the time. Then I get banned for being too anti-PC.

huehuehuehuehue

uuu might have a bit of an adjustment here then uwu e.g. no personal insults and using the word "lynch" is frowned upon here (there's a thread about it you can go check), whereas on EM I know this stuff flies all the time

But plenty of players are super gut-oriented so that's fine, but we may ask you to explain stuff a teensy bit more sometimes just because there is the time and capacity to do so but if not whatevs

On the flip side the scumhunting style is different because it's not as real-time as something like EM or ToS, but I'm sure you'll do great once you adjust

[innocentvillager]

I’m tempted to call the o dude town Bc too scummy to be scum but I feel like it’s nai given his background

you think he's scummy? I don't get that vibe at all

[innocentvillager]

with stupid max. townie games, a townread indicates scum assuming a new/other meta/metagame player. Esp this early with 0 concrete data, only personalities. Clarity's probably too good to be true.
VOTE: Clarity
Also, good to see people finally not being AFK. Too bad I can't do the good ol' D1 fake jester cause of daystart D:

VOTE: Clarity I can get behind this

[innocentvillager]

Ouroel, you've talked a lot about your god-like ability to rxn test as TK in ToS but how's your scumgame?

[innocentvillager]

huehuehuehue

[innocentvillager]

I’m tempted to call the o dude town Bc too scummy to be scum but I feel like it’s nai given his background

I can see why you would say this now

[innocentvillager]

mehhhhhhhhhh

[innocentvillager]

^ good posting.

don’t like this

VOTE: Irrelephant

[innocentvillager]

disagree with the spidey townreads

he’s pretty nai

In fact the fact that his posting kinda makes sense is scummy

[innocentvillager]

I think everyone is null except maybe bella

[innocentvillager]

>not waiting for clarity to wake up first before switching vote

10/10 gameplay right there

thanks

[innocentvillager]

Nash is scummyyyyy tooooo huehuehuheuehue kinda like Relephant

[innocentvillager]

I’m actually finding it pretty easy to follow Nash’s POV I don’t really feel like he’s that scummy rn

disagree with the spidey townreads

he’s pretty nai

In fact the fact that his posting kinda makes sense is scummy

i refer u 2 here, not.science ! cough cough

[innocentvillager]

>not waiting for clarity to wake up first before switching vote

10/10 gameplay right there

i kind of TR this actually

[innocentvillager]

Ah I missed that

Meh we’ll see

Now y’all to me about bella

^ good posting.

vague noncommital one-liner passing off as opinion/analysis

it's a lean not a scumread

[innocentvillager]

I'm not getting lynched today

VOTE: Clarity

[innocentvillager]

what does good mean? townpost? why was it a townpost? i have so many question

[innocentvillager]

A;lthough my paranoia is echoed by village.

huehuehuehuehue

[innocentvillager]

it's not even paranoia it's more just a read

he makes a little too much sense and we're early, I'm used to Nash not really making sense

[innocentvillager]

for you? I'll say whatever you want me to~

me too NS uwu nyah~

[innocentvillager]

I don’t have a good answer for you

[innocentvillager]

at this time

[innocentvillager]

^ good posting.

[innocentvillager]

Care to explain?

huehuehue

See how bad of a post that was now?

[innocentvillager]

lmao am I just casually at E-1

Should I claim?

[innocentvillager]

yeah That was scary when I saw the VC lol

I guess townpoints to andres? he could’ve just not pointed it out? Similarly it would be nice to know who was here around that time and didn’t post but I guess we’ll never knowwwwww

[innocentvillager]

or they could’ve just let a quickhammer happen potentially

but u right it’s probably not actually that town indicative

[innocentvillager]

I’m going to struggle reading Ouroel. If I ever spend most of my posts bragging about my game style on other sites and trying to talk about elements that are completely irrelevant, then please shoot me.

huehuehuehue i like this guy

[innocentvillager]

Now forget I said anything if IV flips Scum haha

Ehhh this feels kinda weird

[innocentvillager]

hmmmmmmmmmmmmm

[innocentvillager]

lmao am I just casually at E-1

Should I claim?

curious whom you had in mind

like what role I was thinking about claiming?

[innocentvillager]

oh I thought you were asking me what role I was thinking of claiming huehuehue (probably Cop or JK, that’ll always get a nice PR to go down with me). If I was scum. If I was town probably just my actual role or whatever

Nah I was just curious if people wanted me to claim because I was at E-1 and that’s what you’re supposed to do at E-1

[innocentvillager]

I’d just like to announce btw that ouroel is confirmed town

[innocentvillager]

or is it obvtown? i forget. No, confirmed town I think

[innocentvillager]

Our is definite town now.

I agree, confirmed town.

[innocentvillager]

don’t really like andres or Walter slots, scummy vibe huehue

[innocentvillager]

i will self vote if our is still my only townread at the end of the day

[innocentvillager]

@Walter there’s not much to read The Bulge yet from. It’s mostly a gut feel. I also don’t quite get why clarity is obvTown and the wagon is dumb (or whatever it was called). It’s way too early in my mind to have such a strong Read on anyone. Except maybe Ouroel - I can see why you would have strong feelings about that slot (Town as far as I can tell, but notscience’s point in 91 about how the posting could be a conscious and strategic decision did cross my mind).

Idk man. I’ll try to explain it?

the hammer sequence comments were still eh especially that last one

Here’s another example of something that feels off, NS had kind of a specific thought that I don’t think is likely for you to have thought of independently, yet you say that you did and you also copied his actual wording, so the subtext I see is your scum!mindset subconsciously trying to fabricate analysis and pass it off as your own

Idk if that makes sense because it’s pretty nit picky and I don’t know how you can really defend against that but I do think this kind of subconscious wording slip is more likely to come from someone with a scum mindset

[innocentvillager]

like this kind of wording tell is noisy because obviously town!you could’ve worded it like that too and just not proofread or something so I’ll just say it, that would be the defense for that one in particular

[innocentvillager]

will a meta dive on iv make his posting style make sense or will i be wasting my time

nah you’ll be wasting your time

my posting style is pretty NAI tbh

I kinda just post like whatever I feel as town or scum for a particular game at a particular time

Probably a little less as scum but who knows man #selfmeta #believeme #iwouldntlie

[innocentvillager]

what does good mean? townpost? why was it a townpost? i have so many question

hi relephant

[innocentvillager]

I esp. like IV/Nash/Walter. Their reads are nice and shows a level of information expected from town. Like they don't have weird insider information or anything like that.

this is actually not a bad readslist

[innocentvillager]

@iv, I'm still not sure what you want? Do you disagree? Nash shared his thoughts in a way that progressed the game, which I think is town.

I just don’t think this stuff is any less likely to come from scum Nash, felt weird to townread that post just because it made sense

I care about stuff that’s AI not just stuff I can follow and makes sense to me

ehh maybe we’re just different

[innocentvillager]

we are all experienced enough to understand that activity and forming semi coherent reads “advances the game” and looks good so it feels like scum!us should be able to do that too and have at least as much incentive to do so

I am probably fallacying myself somewhere with wifom since it’s late but ehh idk I still think your townread on that felt kind of lazy and vague ish

[innocentvillager]

I really don’t see any reason scum!Nash doesn’t write 79 as often as town!Nash does. Anyone can pass that off as analysis and cast suspicion on me

[innocentvillager]

yeah That was scary when I saw the VC lol

I guess townpoints to andres? he could’ve just not pointed it out? Similarly it would be nice to know who was here around that time and didn’t post but I guess we’ll never knowwwwww

in case this wasn’t clear this was a gut reaction and I umderstood soon after that I shouldn’t be giving townpoints to andres for this at all, I feel like I saw this somewhere too lazy to find quote and respond directly

[innocentvillager]

ehh Our you’re not wrong that I’m kind of disinterested, I just haven’t really been vibing that much with this game rn for some reason

[innocentvillager]

[quote="In [url=https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p12038175]I really don't like this post - the 'what you're supposed to do' part feels really shady to me, and the whole wifomish "here's what I'll do if I'm scum" thing feels off - why would you go into this detail as town?

because he is new player seeking to metagame a notoriously hard to metagame game.[/quote]
lmao at how Our and Clarity both took my post literally

Maybe you’re right my memeing is getting too dangerous

[innocentvillager]

NS, can you tell me the difference between your towngame and scumgame?

[innocentvillager]

hi bulge can u put on your SE hat and not lie heeheehee

[innocentvillager]

yeah I don’t get the towncase on Clarity other than she’s eager

[innocentvillager]

also looks like whatever eagerness there was in her really fell off a cliff lately

[innocentvillager]

>giving up on the psychological bonus that is convincing yourself that you are town

can you show me how to convince myself I'm town when I'm scum? if only I could do that I would be

scumread even more because apparently my towngame is scummier

towny all the time

[innocentvillager]

I haven't played in a very very long time and when i did used to play i was generally pretty disengaged and very low-effort. I remember notscience's playstyle but I don't know about enough to describe it? from what I recall though it is often as obvious as he says, not so much from tone but moreso the content and angles of approach.

moreso the content and angles of approach.

ie the genuineness in his scumhunting is easy to pick out

so if NS says something that I think is dumb/forced for town!NS to think I should scumread him for it?

do you agree that in general scum!NS feels less engaged/lurky? would scum NS have such high activity and engage us this game as he's doing now?

what's your NS read this game?

[innocentvillager]

what does good mean? townpost? why was it a townpost? i have so many question

This feels a bit weird to me - the 'does good mean townpost' part seems pretty obviously a yes.

lmao am I just casually at E-1

Should I claim?

or they could’ve just let a quickhammer happen potentially

but u right it’s probably not actually that town indicative

Unless I'm missing something, wasn't he at E-2 here? Andre just shifted his vote off IV.

oh I thought you were asking me what role I was thinking of claiming huehuehue (probably Cop or JK, that’ll always get a nice PR to go down with me). If I was scum. If I was town probably just my actual role or whatever

Nah I was just curious if people wanted me to claim because I was at E-1 and that’s what you’re supposed to do at E-1

I really don't like this post - the 'what you're supposed to do' part feels really shady to me, and the whole wifomish "here's what I'll do if I'm scum" thing feels off - why would you go into this detail as town?

Ouroel is town because I don't think scum would be as... spewy as he is?
UNVOTE: Ouroel
VOTE: innocentvillager

not a very interesting or well thought out catch up from an "eager newbtown"

[innocentvillager]

Nash seems pretty town

I thought we talked about the main post where you thought Nash was town and you agreed with me? Are you still townreading him for that post specifically, or are there other things you're townreading him for?

As an aside I agree with the whole forming townreads D1 thing. But lately I have been putting myself into shit positions on later days by giving out townreads with too low of a threshhold because it's hard for me to psychologically backtrack against an earlier townread I made. Then I just confuse myself on D2/D3 because I've townread everyone still alive to some degree

[innocentvillager]

I think he's probably town or else he'd be coming down harder on me

can you elaborate hhuehue

[innocentvillager]

dumb no he says dumb shit all the time forced maybe

maybe

bad question

I think he's probably town or else he'd be coming down harder on me

which question was bad?

Not sure I completely understood here, I just want to clarify your stance on whether or not activity/engagement is a towntell for NS because he seems to think it is

[innocentvillager]

NS im gonna be honest that was the game I skimmed where I started to get slightly paranoid of you because i didn't see the lack of engagement really that you were talking about

pedit: Bella "town enough for d1" are you suggesting you kind of townread in an iterative process every single day, simply PoEing and hunting for a d1 elim, then rinse and repeat for d2 with a stricter town threshhold? I think what you're describing is different from just "townhunting early" because I do that too, I think a lot of people do that

[innocentvillager]

well there was that one where you forgot your scum role and completely fucked my alt but that's ancient history

[innocentvillager]

stop making sense and saying agreeable things nash I'm getting weirded out

[innocentvillager]

Is there a deeper line of reasoning to this?

it's kind of too early maybe I will do some more research later, but I'm just noting here that there's some paranoia here because I'm not used to following Nash's thought process so well, agreeing with what he says. I usually kind of have trouble with where he's going

also something something site rules something something

can't go into it completely

re Bulge and Bella resps to my questions i understand ty

[innocentvillager]

Third one. I think it's clear enough he is aware of his own meta (or at the absolute very least, presents as such) so pure amount of activity means very little to me

I just want to add here that:
-Knowing that activity/engagement is a general towntell and thing you lack is one thing. ACTUALLY fixing it and ACTUALLY generating content quickly, coherently, and genuinely engaging based on that self-reflection knowledge is hard; harder for some than others. Like I know this is one thing that my scumgame lacks a lot (I also just suck at scum), but it doesn't mean that scum!me can just deliver the same confidence and "say whatever's on my mind" verbiage as town!me.
-So this is why I was curious of this and I don't think it's a bad question. If NS is sick enough to be aware of this meta AND bridge it effectively then that tells me a lot, and it also tells me a lot if he's like me and can't. Obviously Clarity hasn't flipped yet but let's just say she flipped scum; I think Nash's "theory" about scum!Clarity knowing about this activity/engagement towntell but actually finding it very difficult to genuinely interact shows parallels to what we're talking about.

But Clarity is a newbie, and I am an experienced but poor player (especially scum). And I assume you are giving him his deserved credit and saying he is capable of ramping up the activity.

[innocentvillager]

i don't hate an Andres vote, that slot is somewhat suspicious

[innocentvillager]

I TR Our Walter NS Bulge this game I think in that order

Irdk about Relephant

Scumpool is Andres Clarity Nash

[innocentvillager]

I scumread Nash’s self vote for example but I don’t want to explain why

[innocentvillager]

I'm in a constant loop with you iv

sometimes I feel like your brazenness cant possibly be coming from scum, but the longer I dwell on any such wifomy territory the more i feel like i am being Played.

do you ever reread your old town games as scum?

I sometimes reread my old scum games as town

I haven't rolled scum yet since my most recent hiatus

except for this game

But if I were to roll scum I'm probably also in a town game already concurrently so I like to post in both threads in a similar timeframe to blur the line between my scum and town mindset

[innocentvillager]

I could clown Iv I think

Need to reread tonight or tomorrow

haha NS you have no idea how relieved I am to hear you say that.

[innocentvillager]

depends on what about jankofan you want to talk about? If it’s about like why he replaced out probably not, but I think anything else goes?

[innocentvillager]

I don't think speculation about a newbie replace our is helpful of conclusive and like....that has my Spidey sense pinging.

whats scummy about wanting to talk about it?

[innocentvillager]

she's not very... clear

[innocentvillager]

i kind of think Nash is null leaning town now

[innocentvillager]

Give me a reason to TR you Nash.

I think it's too early to have hard stances. What makes you think I'm detached?

Why do you believe it is too early to have a hard stance?

This was not directed to you at all our, yet you felt the need to answer , how curious.

what's curious about it? is there a read here? he's been doing it all game too (responding to questions directed at other people)

[innocentvillager]

hi bell i fear you have replaced into a scum slot

[innocentvillager]

I’d love to hear more about NS

[innocentvillager]

I really believe NS is town this game.

[innocentvillager]

I think scum!NS tries to pocket me in this spot and I have reasons to believe the scumread on my slot is genuine

[innocentvillager]

yes Bell he is essentially my only townread other than Our

[innocentvillager]

because I don’t think NS knows how to adapt to me

[innocentvillager]

in fact the more he scumreads my slot this game the more town I believe he is (oops gave it away)

[innocentvillager]

Bell I tend to get more paranoid on later days in general especially when I get the point of townreading everyone alive (to a degree)

You didn’t see my D1 play, it’s usually more chill and calm

[innocentvillager]

god you’re so town this game NS

[innocentvillager]

I think I’m just going to sheep NS for the rest of this game because I don’t really know what’s going on tbh

Like Bell, I could move my vote off of you, I wouldn’t mind. Would you like that?

[innocentvillager]

because he’s a much better player than me, I think he’s town, and I don’t have compelling reads ?

[innocentvillager]

UNVOTE: Bell

[innocentvillager]

Are you town? If so I can sheep you too

As long as it’s not NS or our

[innocentvillager]

The case is hes too towny to be town

[innocentvillager]

VOTE: notscience

[innocentvillager]

meh I thought about it and I still think he’s town.

UNVOTE: notscience

what were you saying again, Bell?

[innocentvillager]

ah.

my humour misses again

[innocentvillager]

oh wtf i did not realize we had a single day left.

VOTE: WaltertheDunce10

[innocentvillager]

^ seconded.

not that i'll have much time to pore over and reread carefully but... would help everyone else

[innocentvillager]

I wasn't voting you, I was voting Clarity. As you can see I've no longer voted you

[innocentvillager]

because for someone who is not used to playing long games, it is far more taxing and difficult to engage playing a long game as newbscum than it is to play a long game as newbtown

Of course the latter is possible but the effect is so much greater going in red the first time, I often see newbscum struggling a lot to engage and interact on their first long game after a little bit because they keep finding it harder as townies post to post genuine content consistently

This feels especially true when she starts off with an eager bang

[innocentvillager]

it doesn't

[innocentvillager]

Most of us know that mafia replace out more often than town

yeah but like this case feels a bit more specific, normally we'd have to speculate, here she's basically telling us she's finding it hard to engage with the long format as it goes on, and it's not an RL reason

i unvoted you because i don't want you to leave us so soon, doesn't seem your wagon is going to take off, and my SR isn't like that strong

[innocentvillager]

If you nk me i’ll Be mad that you lied about wanting to keep me around.

I'll only nk you if you scumread me or my partner, dw, you don't so that's good

[innocentvillager]

NS wheres your head at this game? Besides me

[innocentvillager]

I understand where shes coming from with it being hard to engage Our but I don't feel like you're difficult to engage with, IV. So that's weird

i think if someone tries to engage with me it's easy. you try to engage me so it might feel easy for you. bella never really tried except that one time and I find it hard to believe she found it hard to engage with me that one time. also if you catch me in a memey mood i can be an ambient noise presence

[innocentvillager]

What do you make of Nash's voting quirk?

huh

[innocentvillager]

@Iv do you make anything of it?

what are you referring to?

[innocentvillager]

as i said in 535 i dont' know what you and bella are talking about

[innocentvillager]

VOTE: andres

[innocentvillager]

i think we need an E-1 and a claim. id prefer andres but I can move elsewhere ifneedbe (other than Our, NS). there is less than a day to go and if we hit a PR we need to switch off (unless there's a cc obviously)

[innocentvillager]

TO CLARIFY no claim UNTIL the E-1 and someone wants wagonee to claim.

[innocentvillager]

^ townposting from bulge. No reason for scum to point all this out unless his partner is in there somewhere

[innocentvillager]

we dont have time bulge

[innocentvillager]

Also, 571 is a dead giveaway. There’s some clear impatience there, potentially to have my slot flipped. So if we were going to establish some counter wagon that actually reveals information, IV is the correct slot.

yep my impatience to get a wagon going with less than a day to go is a real dead giveaway there, damn! how could i have scumslipped so bad!

[innocentvillager]

Bell any updated reads on Andres given his recent posting (since you read his previous games)? is it more likely that this his town or scum reaction to getting wagoned?

[innocentvillager]

pls NS believe me i am not scum! I am just innocent. villager!

[innocentvillager]

14 hours as of this post...

we could no elim too that's be a really great strategy for town on D1. we had a perfectly good wagon on andres and we're going to just go for some last minute wagon switch? what happened to last minute wagons always hit town, NS?

idk when you said that but I swear you said that at some point

[innocentvillager]

why does this town suck Bell?

[innocentvillager]

i think you're being a bit unfair, bell. two people just aren't here. and i don't hate walter/the bulge's contributions, they have posted thoughts consistently even if not that often

pedit: okay NS's case on me is that I'm more lackadaisical than he'd expect town!me to be.

I understand why he has this read on me, and I think he's town for it as I've said before. but i am not scum this game, sorry

[innocentvillager]

honestly if NS is just going to deathtunnel me for the rest of the game and everyone suspects me just hurry and wagon me. I don't even care if you think I'm AtEing, no eliminating is horrible and I can't even really case NS back because I think he's town so I think I'm just going to get dunked at some point or another.

[innocentvillager]

Mostly most recent games:

Post most recent hiatus (both town)

Open 787 troll/bad towngame
Newbie 2017 ok mason game

Pre most recent hiatus

Open 734 lurky scumgame
Micro 760 meh towngame
Newbie 1813 bad scumgame
Newbie 1825 medicore jailor game

Pre second most recent hiatus

Newbie 1730 heavy tunnelling against me tracker game
Newbie 1727 super lurky scumgame
Newbie 1726 tunnelly towngame
snip snip
Newbie 1722 super AtE scumgame
Newbie 1717 ridiculous bus scumgame

[innocentvillager]

i haven't been scum since my most recent hiatus so I'm not really sure what current scum!me does. all i can tell you is I have a LOT of trouble with scum and I really think being active, genuine, higher energy, and stream-of-consciousness is one of my main indicators.

you saw the worst's evaluation of my meta at the end of Newbie 2017 so you can read that.

doesn't mean if im not stream of consciousness I'm not town, but if I am being so it's more likely I am town.

[innocentvillager]

That was very fast. Ty.

copy and paste does wonders!

[innocentvillager]

i can do whatever i want bell lol whenever i feel like it lol as town or scum

maybe if i had to put a finger on it... I meme less when i am in a game with more newbies. this game has essentially no newbies in it

[innocentvillager]

i don't want to talk about any PR tells i might have for obvious reasons.

pedit: NS which post?

[innocentvillager]

this reaffirms my belief that you are town and Bell is town too now.

NS is your case on me really just me being lackadaisical? again I understand why you scumread me but I'd like to at least try to defend myself against your case on me

[innocentvillager]

i mean i understand why you think im lackadaisical somewhat and i understand why you think that is scummy, to be clear.

[innocentvillager]

i just think the me NS dynamic is hilarious and I can't wait to find out the results. if I had the complete opposite direction reads that would be fucking hilarious and i would cry at how good NS is at manipulating me

[innocentvillager]

this wagon has a much higher chance to hit scum

i think i may be feeling your energy

nooooooooooooo it's not meeeeeeee

don't listen to NS

but townread him and sheep him... later...

[innocentvillager]

i might be here around deadlne we'll see

[innocentvillager]

VOTE: Nash

wherever Bell goes I go

[innocentvillager]

i think hes pretty nully

and we do not have timeeeeeee

[innocentvillager]

wait holy sdhit we are so behind pleaseeee anyone even me

[innocentvillager]

you can join my townpool walter!

btw NS, Bell are also town!

[innocentvillager]

bell, if you want to go back to Andres I can. just say the word

[innocentvillager]

of all people Ouroel was scum, lmfao wtf

everything else was pretty expected

sad I never got around to high efforting this maybe I could’ve survived if NS didn’t push me jk

gg

[innocentvillager]

I’m too good at reading NS

jk I’ll always be paranoid of u

[innocentvillager]

how do you do it worsty

[innocentvillager]

How do you write like you're running out of time?
Write day and night like you're running out of time?
How do you write like tomorrow won't arrive?
How do you write like you need it to survive?
How do you write every second you're alive?