Open 789: Two-Fold 2d3 [Game Over]

[dramonic]

vote: testarossa

Been a while

[dramonic]

And you need to know this because...?

[dramonic]

2 down 2 to go

[dramonic]

1 to go~

[dramonic]

maybe later

[dramonic]

One is Menalque, duh.

I mean probably but I wouldn't quite eat my hat yet.

[dramonic]

This is interesting

Why do you say that dramonic?

Cuz hats are bad for digestion

[dramonic]

Considering they just spent 2 pages circle-jerking, I'm not sold.
That and I'm somehow at 5 out of 4, which is an issue.

vote: TripleHaven

Also teacher and marashu, with one of Dann or Menalque, not sure which since they're both spamming banter rn.

[dramonic]

Dram - we are VIBIN this game. Can I take a guess that 94 is the crux of your vote? That's where I got the pings.

All the way to 94? You are slowrollin pal

[dramonic]

Actually it's multiball, so dann/menal could be opposing scum. EXCITING PROSPECTS!

EDIT: ...Why?

[dramonic]

ITT salt about being caught for the wrong reason.

[dramonic]

except we might be talking about two different slots

Most likely, considering where your vote stands!

[dramonic]

Because I’d made very few posts at that point and want you to justify why you were saying you thought I was probably scum

At that point by association with TH, at this point you've kinda just claimed all over the thread so it doesn't really matter

EDIT: eeeeeeeeeeeeeh

[dramonic]

146 is fairly sodium rich but ymmv. Point stands

[dramonic]

Bets are open about how many appeals to the crowd we'll get from Menalque before she flips scum

[dramonic]

He, sorry

[dramonic]

i've been on this site for 10 years and some lazy poster thinks that i've figured out the game on page 5? really?

One more year and you'll do it :3

[dramonic]

That and despair.

[dramonic]

Just alluding to having reads without actually stating them?

[dramonic]

You know, if you wanna do coaching you have a qt for that guys.

[dramonic]

In post 149, dramonic wrote:
ITT salt about being caught for the wrong reason.


Don't totally get this. What's the wrong reason in this case and what's wrong about it?

I mean the entirety of TH's iso has been scummy, but it's an expression, not a specific reason.
Like being a bp sk, playing a perfect game and then scum trying to shoot you and claiming it pre-lynch of their final member.

Granted we're very far from a perfect game

[dramonic]

I'm not new scum, have played 30+ games on MU (4/5 scum winrate btw... please don't ask about my town winrate) Also that stat is dumb even if I was new scum.

[dramonic]

Also I'm willing to let Marashu off the hook for the time being.
And Dann is trying to steal my shtick and it's very unbecoming.

[dramonic]

What was Marashu being scum read for and why are they now off the hook

What have I done that changed your mind?

Nothing, but there's only 4 scum in the game so obviously I'm scumreading someone wrong and the other 4 are scummier. Bask in that glory while you can!

That entire argument between Teacher, Dann and Hiraki felt amusingly phony, but ya gotta appear like you're doing

something

or people will catch on amirite?

[dramonic]

Engaging with scum is mostly white noise.

[dramonic]

On a serious note, More than half the game has less than 10 posts and 4 players have 2 or less. At least my sassy one liners are a quick read.

[dramonic]

Your reasoning is weird, but the conclusion is sound, so IDC

[dramonic]

Engaging with scum is mostly white noise.

How do you find who scum is then? lmao

I don't need to interact with you to see you interact ya cupcake.
You're literally the only person who I don't need to convince that you're scum.

[dramonic]

I like how all the scum is in your top 4 town reads.

[dramonic]

You keep saying things like this and I just have no idea why you think I would trust that to be accurate/correct

What makes you think I care about the trust of scum?

[dramonic]

I wish someone town would ask

[dramonic]

That entire argument between Teacher, Dann and Hiraki felt amusingly phony, but ya gotta appear like you're doing something or people will catch on amirite?

All words and no concrete content.

[dramonic]

There's no solid stance at any point. It's all "I sorta see it but maybe not teehee" kind of stuff.

[dramonic]

Bets are open about how many appeals to the crowd we'll get from Menalque before she flips scum

You can still get your money in teach!

[dramonic]

(I have too much respect for his scum game to take a harder stance than that.)

OOF
My kingdom for a dayvig

[dramonic]

Okay I think I’m at like

Dann, teacher - town
Umlaut, haven
Testa - townlean
Dunn - basically null but marginally above the other two
Gypx, A50 - null
Crush - true null
Dram - scummy
Hikari - scum

Can you explain the Dram read? I agree he's being

weird

but I don't see the scum angle.

I'm voting his scumbuddy

[dramonic]

I think he was calling you an innocent child, but not the role.
And don't try to threaten me it's rude

[dramonic]

... he's calling you an idiot.
And im not literally threatened I was just responding to "ask dunn how that turns out"

[dramonic]

And that's why you're scum

[dramonic]

And that's why you're scum

[dramonic]

What is it with people this game and asking for something to sheep?

[dramonic]

dramonic does not believe in such petty and useless things as "sorting people" or "playing mafia"

Scumteam A:
TripleHaven
Menalque

Scumteam B:
Dann
Teacher

Town:
The rest


There, sorted. Can we stop trolling around yet?

@umlaut: asking for people's opinion without actively broadcasting your own is an illusion of content and a poor man's excuse to not put themselves in the spotlight.
And yes, I am always like this

[dramonic]

The narrator of a story is hardly in the spotlight

[dramonic]

There can only be 4 scum mate

[dramonic]

no sorry i sort of agree with teacher there dram, you could always have 5 scum. you'd just be wrong about someone

then again...10 years...

Of course I can be wrong, I'm not the mod, but I gotta work with what information I have right now, and that information is two blatant scum and two players whose posts are almost as numerous as they are vapid.

I would mostly not try to lynch teacher or dann today, even if they are scumreads right now, because the reasoning for their scumminess is not as sound as the one for Triple/Mena (there are empty shells of townies out there and PoE without a full playerlist is beyond shaky), but someone has to fill the mantle of scum #3 and #4 and I've no active suspicions elsewhere currently.

To be clear, just because I'm saying someone is town doesn't mean I'm not reading their posts, I will gladly reevaluate when new information surfaces.

[dramonic]

Yea, I had a scum tingles on Hiraki but wanted to try to understand him, and was trying to limit the inflection of my own views to avoid the "wont interact with scum/people thinking Im scum" routine while getting my questions answered. I found my self hard vibing with Dann when he joined the interchange, so I agree with your interpretation.

As for Mena harping a lot on it, 135 159 and 183 struck me as a lot of appeals to outside adjudicators. I liked the first one, but by the last it seemed to get kinda....much/overly directing attention?

Fair enough. Tbf I was getting scummy vibes from you, because I was considering you might be a bit on the fence here regarding Hiraki despite having a clear direction in your posts. Using that approach to form a better read on Hiraki is townie though as I think you could have let Hiraki look worse in the conversation if you wouldn't try to get more out of him this way.

You kind of answered what I would have asked to the lower paragraph in 277. I am not really getting it though, unless I am somehow misinterpreting something here. Does it look weird for Mena to appeal to the crowd when he gets frustrated in a conversation with someone scumreading him? (and his own scumread) What made it look like scum theatre? I get that you missed the detailed case of him, which made you change your mind later, but I am not really sure how you reached the conclusion, because I would think if you think an interaction looks like SvS you would be aware of each case.

I’m playing by my new fire pit with a cigar for the evening. I want to get out of my current conversational tunnel. Can anyone offer me a take on umlaut, gypyx or testa?

Mostly null on Umlaut, however I am mildly scumleaning on him in 186 for his response to Dann's 70, because of the clause with "though weak, because of multiball" which imo makes no sense in the context of Dann's post. I am aware of the multiball dynamics, however you either townlean on Dann for his stretchy page 2 reach or not, I don't see how the existence of a second scum team plays into this.
What makes you leaning town on Umlaut?

Gypyx looks null, maybe a bit careful and hasn't read everything thoroughly yet, but that can mean anything.

I'm not really a huge fan of Testa or Gypx avoiding taking a real stance on Hiraki

That's more because I struggle with getting proper reads on people who tend to be become more aggressive/heated in a conversation with specific 1-2 players about a single subject, who in my experience often just look bad if it's just about one certain subject. As you pointed out in your response to me, I am kind of assuming that a personality trait might be overshadowing a bit rn. I am null on him and prefer the approach here to see him act and behave with other people on different subjects to get a proper impression here.

That's a lot of text to say "everyone is null"

[dramonic]

Spoonfeeding is so boring =_=

Spamming the newb card to divert attention from potential mistakes

By the way; i'm new to this site and 2 week/1 week games are absolutely foreign to me (am from Mafia Universe) so i'm going to try to keep my composure, LO

TripleHaven, why didn't you vote?

Is RvS something people do a lot on here?
Once again, am new to the site.

Oh well
VOTE: Menalque

Very good example here. TH has no reason to vote, but "Oh, you guys RVS, better blend in "

By the way; i'm new to this site and 2 week/1 week games are absolutely foreign to me (am from Mafia Universe) so i'm going to try to keep my composure, LO

Apparently it's 2 weeks/48 hours
and then 10 days/48 hours
As you can tell, I didn't read the OP

Backtracking on vote reasoning. There was absolutely no mention of wagon size until confronted, until then it was "because umlaut is sheeping".

TripleHaven, why didn't you vote?

Is RvS something people do a lot on here?
Once again, am new to the site.

Oh well
VOTE: Menalque

actually

VOTE: umulaut
for sheeping

Dann, why’d you change your vote to haven?

It's very small but I didn't like how she switched her vote from you to Umlaut. You had two votes on you at the time and RVS voting you would have built a sizable wagon. I wonder if maybe she was scared off by being the third vote on a (let's say town for now) wagon and decided to switch her vote to someone with no votes yet. Also, the "for sheeping" reasoning is kinda strange considering she had just sheeped people on the Menalque vote.

It's possible this didn't cross Haven's mind at all and I read far too much into it, but it was mildly scummier than I thought Dunnstral was.

Why'd you put Marashu at the bottom of your preliminary reads list?

I voted mena because we've played together before, didn't realize they already had so many votes, so I switched off. In hinesight, the amount of votes she had didn't really matter especially because it was only RvS. But that was my logic for it back then.

mudslinging. TBH the post from Menalque is more damning than the response

Yo Dann, teacher, haven, dunn — this feels like I’m being dealt with in very bad faith, but I find it hard to judge when I’m the one someone is aiming at

Do you think that’s accurate to what’s happening or am I reading too much into this?

yes its accurate

Flipping that newb card to "I'm too good for these kind of tells", along with a healthy helping of caught for the wrong reason. That second post is maaaaaaad.

VOTE: Almost50

Hey marashu, you're mafia or werewolf this time?

With any luck, both of them will fall for the gambler's fallacy and NK me, effectively reducing NKs by 1.

I assume youre just playing along with Gypyx's joke but if not why do you think mafia/werewolf would target the other faction this early?

Partly - it makes sense to me that scum would try to take each other down so they could control the game state, Prisoner's dilemma style. They could hunt PRs, but risk being picked off if the other team isn't doing that.

Considering they just spent 2 pages circle-jerking, I'm not sold.
That and I'm somehow at 5 out of 4, which is an issue.

vote: TripleHaven

Also teacher and marashu, with one of Dann or Menalque, not sure which since they're both spamming banter rn.

Mind explaining the read on teacher and myself?

VOTE: TripleHaven

I didn't like the way she came in (and I remember hearing a stat that new scum have a higher tendency to say a greeting in their first post). Haven't really felt anything towny since.

I'm not new scum, have played 30+ games on MU (4/5 scum winrate btw... please don't ask about my town winrate) Also that stat is dumb even if I was new scum.

here's a list of game's i've opened "hi smile" in
https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/th ... ost4057419

https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/th ... ost3954031

https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/th ... ost3954038

I was scum in 1 and town in the other 2
it's insanely NAI outside of these facts but whatever

Illusion of content. Those are all questions that bring nothing to the table and denote no interest in solving the game

I’d like to see crush slot post and I still want to hear from dunn and A50

I know this is the same session (at least for me) but I want you to NOT expect much from me at this time still. You know well (ar at least should) that I don't enter the game guns blazing (unless I am a replacement who got it with lots of substance readily available). You should be happy I am -at least- not meme'ing and shitposting enough. My mind is "elsewhere" for now, but I am "watching from the sideline" and will probably jump in sometime soon.

why the quotation marks
what does elsewhere in quotation marks mean
why are you implying that meme'ing and shitposting is scummy
wh

[dramonic]

Might do Menalque later if I'm really bored.

[dramonic]

dramonic your case on me is dumb
not even half the stuff you point out is AI for me at all

[dramonic]

to the dramonic post:

1. you say i'm "spamming" the newb card then point out 2 posts. Apparently 2 posts is spamming. Also, it wasn't even spamming the newb card, it was spamming the "i'm new to this site" card which ARE DIFFERENT
2. and you were expecting me to explain my vote change back then... why? it was RvS, the votes literally didn't matter. The "umulaut was sheeping" thing wasn't even being serious to begin with either. Umulaut voting was like, the second post of the game
3. ???? how does this make me scum ????
4. Or maybe, instead of "caught for the wrong reason" it's "towny pushing against the dumbest reason to scumread them they've ever seen" I've been ML'd like 10+ times and that last part isn't even an exaggeration.
5. It's not even an allusion of content, I was just confused about the post in general.

1. "I dont know the deadlines here" falls in the same category, and you're right, it's worse, mb
2. This is the poorest attempt at emulating RVS I've ever seen
3. There's no town motivation to this sort of post, but again this is more a point against your buddy than against you. I've said that
4. Your track record of mislynches is irrelevant to you being scum here, but thanks for strawmanning
5. It's latching on to irrelevant details. You're just looking for something to question instead of scumhuntin.


Menalque continues her little campaign of Hiraki being town because he's a meanie

[dramonic]

*hiraki being scum* obviously

[dramonic]

Well now I'm real scared

[dramonic]

That was snarkier than necessary.
I don't really care about whatever read you wanna fabricate on me tho.

[dramonic]

I think the pertinent question is maybe more “why does dram disagree with my hiraki case?”

Because the main argument there seems to be “Mena is scum”

Why am I scum “because haven is scum and associations” plus I guess other stuff if he does get around to casing me

This is

I mean I guess I can maybe see it on like a very level 0 thinking thing

not a

Coupled with being out of date

Yo dram how many games have you played the last, say, 2 years?

town mentality

also 0

[dramonic]

Also can anyone do the math on how many misguillos we get given the extra scum and the 2 NKs?

assuming full fail to accomplish anything by the PRs, 2?

ML-2k-ML-2k puts us at 3-2-2

[dramonic]

and we don't want to be at 3-2-2, so I guess 1 but again, that's assuming the PRs are sleeping somethin first and scum never crosskills.


You're trying to discredit me as a player in this game by commenting on my intellect as opposed to my case. This kind of behavior is frankly unacceptable, but I'll let you paint yourself in a corner since we've fallen to that level of play apparently.

[dramonic]

It's not even grasping at straws at this point, it's like...
"... WELL YOU'RE OLD AND A POOPYHEAD SO THERE!"

[dramonic]

bahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
META? xD

[dramonic]

You don't get to be scum and say "oh it's my meta, I have immunity!" ya funny lad

[dramonic]

I *do* think you’re playing to an outdated site meta which is leading you to bad reads

[dramonic]

I don't think you understand how meta works.

[dramonic]

I’m not talking about my personal meta, I’m talking about site meta ie how people tend to approach the game as town and as scum, and I think that’s moved on from wherever it was when you used to play regularly

I don't think you understand how meta works.

Dram i wanna conclude that your bad case on me is just towny bad but the lack of anything else towny in your ISO is making me doubt that

By which you mean you don't want to try to get something going on me cuz I'll flip town and it'd look bad on your resume.
I get it.

[dramonic]

You have a very strange definition of positive-town.

[dramonic]

It is frightening how little some of you differentiate between intent and content. Just saying.

[dramonic]

It is frightening how little some of you differentiate between intent and content. Just saying.

How is this relevant

It's relevant cuz you havent been lynched yet.

@teach: at work, will respond on break

[dramonic]

Which benefits exactly are you expecting to see by concealing your reads?

Protecting my TRs. Plain and simple.

but doesn't that assume that all your TR's are going to die?

are you saying that you have control over a night kill?

:think:
VOTE: almost50

Jesus christ are we seriously ignoring this flailing?


Serious question, since I have been away for a couple years: What's with the new lingo of exile and gylo or whatever that was. Like I understand what people mean, but did we decide that lynch was no longer pc?


I really don't like the wagon on Hiraki, who's probably one of the townier player in the game rn if you actually look at what hes doing as opposed to flailing hysterically because he's abrasive.


I know Im supposed to answer something, sorry but im gonna have to doublepost.


Edit: I assume you mean me and not dan with that vote? Either way... "Teehee jk I dont want flak!"

[dramonic]

Careful voting TH guys, you're gonna get added to her very real scumlist

[dramonic]

@Teach: He actually has conviction in what hes saying and isnt trying to backtrack constantly by going "it's a joke teehee". He's also not trying to placate the people attacking him cuz hes town and therefore knows they're wrong, vs trying to repaint his posts in a different light in hopes people will relieve the pressure.

Also there's already plenty people being significantly scummier and look at that wagon composition

[dramonic]

You

really

wanna talk about flailing?
Also cant find the rule teach :/

[dramonic]

The moral of that story is kill it with fire before it can kill the town.

Edit: one is her scumbuddy

[dramonic]

Serious question, since I have been away for a couple years: What's with the new lingo of exile and gylo or whatever that was. Like I understand what people mean, but did we decide that lynch was no longer pc?

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=83525

Huh.
So what's the g in gylo?

[dramonic]

*gy

[dramonic]

Gamma

[dramonic]

LOL
VOTE: dramonic

Are you done votehopping yet?

[dramonic]

ok, TO BE FAIR- most of my games are turbos (16 minute/8 minute) games and nobody takes them seriously.

the only time town wins these types of games is if scum is obvious or isn't playing well

That would explain your earlier stated winrates

[dramonic]

LOL
VOTE: dramonic

Are you done votehopping yet?

I've voted 4 people this game
two of which weren't even serious votes

You've voted 5, 3 of which in the last 12 hours.
And they were serious until someone called you out.

[dramonic]

LOL
VOTE: dramonic

Are you done votehopping yet?

I've voted 4 people this game
two of which weren't even serious votes

You've voted 5, 3 of which in the last 12 hours.
And they were serious until someone called you out.

either way your point is stupid and me voting a lot of people is irrelevent to my allignment unless you want to convince me otherwise

like do you *actually* have a problem with me voting a lot of people or do you just want to keep shading me

Kind of a loaded question. You're scum, so I don't actually care what you do. I'm just pointing out the scumplay and it's a dime a dozen with ya.

EDIT: ~actions in previous games do not excuse actions in this one~

[dramonic]

no sorry i sort of agree with teacher there dram, you could always have 5 scum. you'd just be wrong about someone

then again...10 years...

Of course I can be wrong, I'm not the mod, but I gotta work with what information I have right now, and that information is two blatant scum and two players whose posts are almost as numerous as they are vapid.

I would mostly not try to lynch teacher or dann today, even if they are scumreads right now, because the reasoning for their scumminess is not as sound as the one for Triple/Mena (there are empty shells of townies out there and PoE without a full playerlist is beyond shaky), but someone has to fill the mantle of scum #3 and #4 and I've no active suspicions elsewhere currently.

To be clear, just because I'm saying someone is town doesn't mean I'm not reading their posts, I will gladly reevaluate when new information surfaces.

nope

yes actually

[dramonic]

It's been years and you still misgender me

[dramonic]

It is frightening how little some of you differentiate between intent and content. Just saying.

How is this relevant

It's relevant cuz you havent been lynched yet.

@teach: at work, will respond on break

zzzzzz
actually didn't you say you weren't engaging with scumreads? What are you doing with teacher then?

I'm having second thoughts about teach. I said that actually.

[dramonic]

Nvm, I thought I'd said it but apparently not?

[dramonic]

It speaks to a mindset of watching them buddy inthread actually, but okay

[dramonic]

Apparently I don't know how to scumhunt

[dramonic]

This is just not how town scumhunts at all? No one should have to "fill the mantle" of scumread spots.

You're just wrong here.

In case you missed it (I know you didn't), it's multiball, there's a second scumteam that needs to be caught here and pretending it doesn't exist doesn't make that happen. That's like playing a game with a third party, catching that third party and saying "my work here is done"

[dramonic]

There's no point in expanding on extracurricular scumreads beyond what the setup can carry. I have to lynch the first 2 anyways and by then there will be plenty more information to go around. You just assume I've no reads beyond the 4 because it fits the N_M narrative you wanna give me.

Also there's nothing arbitrary about the split, I've made it really clear that I think Haven and Menalque are scum together since like post 46.
"But dram, you said you weren't sure about Menalque being scum in 103!"
Fine then ya muffin, I've made it clear Haven is scum, and that Menalquescum is her buddy.

[dramonic]

While we're here discussing my super special lack of reads beyond 4 scum{tm), what are you thinking right now beyond me? Hard to tell since you were posting as you did your read through (and I'm too lazy to read over it again)?

Also missed 549 in the page jump: Menalque is saying my view of meta is outdated leading me to bad reads. That's preeeeeeeeeeetty much trying to defend against my scumread of him by screaming meta.

EDIT: 5/4 is bad cuz it means im gonna mislynch someone at some point? Hello?

[dramonic]

I think I see what you mean on Menalque, though I was already suspecting him a bit (that also answers your question to an extent). As for 5/4 leading to an ML, not if you're lucky/able to sniff out the proper reads.

I don't like mislynching. It means I was wrong.

[dramonic]

like no-one really explicitly townreading hiraki but no-one making an effort to defend him

[dramonic]

what part of "I really don't like the wagon on Hiraki, who's probably one of the townier player in the game rn if you actually look at what hes doing as opposed to flailing hysterically because he's abrasive." makes you think I don't explicitely townread him?

[dramonic]

sorry for triple-post, but "like no-one really explicitly townreading hiraki but no-one making an effort to defend him" I assume is not what you meant to say there, cuz unless someone townreads him they wouldnt defend him either.

[dramonic]

Oh, you think my scumreads on people outside THalque aren't genuine. Way to muddle your actual problem.

[dramonic]

Oh, you think my scumreads on people outside THalque aren't genuine. Way to muddle your actual problem.

Well yes that’s part of the issue but I think you faked confidence in order to have 4 scumreads

I think this is the first time someone accuses me of faking confidence vs calling me downright arrogant.
I don't know how to feel about this.

[dramonic]

and a 100% chance Triple and you do. I'll take those odds.

[dramonic]

joking aside (it's not 100% chance obviously), 55-60% is absurdly low and a setup to backpedal on the townflip.

[dramonic]

except nobody suggests rand

[dramonic]

... Is there a word for fake lack-of-confidence?

[dramonic]

Like I’m not suggesting rand, but I’m saying that even people renowned for their accuracy of reads I think are normally only hitting about 70% or something

55-60% is just realistic for a strong scumread on D1 with no additional info

Like I have no word for how weak-willed this stance is.

[dramonic]

I don't even mean it as an insult, I'm dumbfounded here.

[dramonic]

Like I’d rather say it’s slightly more likely than not that hiraki flips scum, and that’s a significant improvement on the random chance of finding scum

I'd probably throw myself off a cliff before trying to push a vote I'm not 90% sold on.
Figuratively

[dramonic]

I don't even mean it as an insult, I'm dumbfounded here.

some people play mafia differently from you

I know why do you think I'm vitriolic all the time.

[dramonic]

Try me

[dramonic]

Yeah, I’ve been weighing that up. I was considering not answering but I figure scum have probably talked about it in PT and what they should do strategy wise so I doubt I’m hurting town here

I think they’d probably want to avoid targeting the other team D1. I would. If the other team are guillotined then they are in a tricky situation and I think likely to try very hard to scumhunt to look town the next day/they might shoot at you if they think they’ve figured you out bc the other scumteam will probably try to finish you before too long. Also because if the other scumteam hit you accidentally they’ve turned it into an 9:2 which is a micro with an extra MG, and which definitely benefits town.

If I’m scum I want to tentatively work with the other scumteam to get a mislynch and then I probably try to kill town again. D2 I’d start really pursuing the other scumteam with a weak town who are more likely to have to work with me in a kingmaker scenario.

I'm gonna need a lot of cheese for all that WIFOM

[dramonic]

Mara, I’m trying to explain why I think dram is so wrong if town. Fmpov (knowing I’m town) dram has been pushing conftown, and three of my top townreads. My explanations for that are either (1) he’s scum (2) he’s incompetent (3) something else.

I'm really excited for the backpedal day 2

[dramonic]

Do you disagree? He was asked how he would play it, and the strat seems reasonable. If you disagree, why? If you dont, why shade it?

We're not in a vacuum or in the mafia discussion forum. Any answer given is swayed by alignment and gamestate.

[dramonic]

It's also really bad play, but that's besides the point

[dramonic]

Is that his meta?

[dramonic]

That's... Not what you wrote. Or it's real poorly worded. "If im wrong I wanna continue on my current reada"?

[dramonic]

not sure if that's a joke, just a bet on my part

It was a joke you killjoy

[dramonic]

Christ that is fast replacement

[dramonic]

Well that's not very nice now is it?

[dramonic]

The children version.

Children aren't allowed on ms, do I need to alert your parents?

[dramonic]

I’m full of shit half the time.

Walk me through the haven accusation and aftermath.

I caught TH. She flailed. They all lived happily ever affter except TH cuz she was dead.
That last part is the epilogue

[dramonic]

What part of the case I built was nebulous to you?

[dramonic]

Spoonfeeding is so boring =_=

Spamming the newb card to divert attention from potential mistakes

By the way; i'm new to this site and 2 week/1 week games are absolutely foreign to me (am from Mafia Universe) so i'm going to try to keep my composure, LO

TripleHaven, why didn't you vote?

Is RvS something people do a lot on here?
Once again, am new to the site.

Oh well
VOTE: Menalque

Very good example here. TH has no reason to vote, but "Oh, you guys RVS, better blend in "

By the way; i'm new to this site and 2 week/1 week games are absolutely foreign to me (am from Mafia Universe) so i'm going to try to keep my composure, LO

Apparently it's 2 weeks/48 hours
and then 10 days/48 hours
As you can tell, I didn't read the OP

Backtracking on vote reasoning. There was absolutely no mention of wagon size until confronted, until then it was "because umlaut is sheeping".

TripleHaven, why didn't you vote?

Is RvS something people do a lot on here?
Once again, am new to the site.

Oh well
VOTE: Menalque

actually

VOTE: umulaut
for sheeping

Dann, why’d you change your vote to haven?

It's very small but I didn't like how she switched her vote from you to Umlaut. You had two votes on you at the time and RVS voting you would have built a sizable wagon. I wonder if maybe she was scared off by being the third vote on a (let's say town for now) wagon and decided to switch her vote to someone with no votes yet. Also, the "for sheeping" reasoning is kinda strange considering she had just sheeped people on the Menalque vote.

It's possible this didn't cross Haven's mind at all and I read far too much into it, but it was mildly scummier than I thought Dunnstral was.

Why'd you put Marashu at the bottom of your preliminary reads list?

I voted mena because we've played together before, didn't realize they already had so many votes, so I switched off. In hinesight, the amount of votes she had didn't really matter especially because it was only RvS. But that was my logic for it back then.

mudslinging. TBH the post from Menalque is more damning than the response

Yo Dann, teacher, haven, dunn — this feels like I’m being dealt with in very bad faith, but I find it hard to judge when I’m the one someone is aiming at

Do you think that’s accurate to what’s happening or am I reading too much into this?

yes its accurate

Flipping that newb card to "I'm too good for these kind of tells", along with a healthy helping of caught for the wrong reason. That second post is maaaaaaad.

VOTE: Almost50

Hey marashu, you're mafia or werewolf this time?

With any luck, both of them will fall for the gambler's fallacy and NK me, effectively reducing NKs by 1.

I assume youre just playing along with Gypyx's joke but if not why do you think mafia/werewolf would target the other faction this early?

Partly - it makes sense to me that scum would try to take each other down so they could control the game state, Prisoner's dilemma style. They could hunt PRs, but risk being picked off if the other team isn't doing that.

Considering they just spent 2 pages circle-jerking, I'm not sold.
That and I'm somehow at 5 out of 4, which is an issue.

vote: TripleHaven

Also teacher and marashu, with one of Dann or Menalque, not sure which since they're both spamming banter rn.

Mind explaining the read on teacher and myself?

VOTE: TripleHaven

I didn't like the way she came in (and I remember hearing a stat that new scum have a higher tendency to say a greeting in their first post). Haven't really felt anything towny since.

I'm not new scum, have played 30+ games on MU (4/5 scum winrate btw... please don't ask about my town winrate) Also that stat is dumb even if I was new scum.

here's a list of game's i've opened "hi smile" in
https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/th ... ost4057419

https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/th ... ost3954031

https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/th ... ost3954038

I was scum in 1 and town in the other 2
it's insanely NAI outside of these facts but whatever

Illusion of content. Those are all questions that bring nothing to the table and denote no interest in solving the game

I’d like to see crush slot post and I still want to hear from dunn and A50

I know this is the same session (at least for me) but I want you to NOT expect much from me at this time still. You know well (ar at least should) that I don't enter the game guns blazing (unless I am a replacement who got it with lots of substance readily available). You should be happy I am -at least- not meme'ing and shitposting enough. My mind is "elsewhere" for now, but I am "watching from the sideline" and will probably jump in sometime soon.

why the quotation marks
what does elsewhere in quotation marks mean
why are you implying that meme'ing and shitposting is scummy
wh

The post even starts with saying I'm spoonfeeding man :/

[dramonic]

Granted, there has been a treasure of more scum instances since but Im on a phone rn and quoting stuff sucks

[dramonic]

something something angleshooting something

[dramonic]

maybe i could do it too, wouldn't that be fun?

No

[dramonic]

I think jake is town

[dramonic]

I'm not sure why Jackie is trying to intimidate Hiraki into answering questions here, but I don't think it's working. :X

[dramonic]

I was simply reminding Hiraki what happens when I die

Now, it might be the outdated meta talking, but generally the play after a ML is not to rush another ML.
It's moot cuz you're scum, but ya know...

[dramonic]

no and no

[dramonic]

VOTE: dunn

I don’t get that reference

Not touching that with a 10-foot pole

[dramonic]

Still a better vote than the wagon on him

[dramonic]

Like it's really obvious that mena just wants any wagon to pick up steam because he doesnt want his scumbud lynched

[dramonic]

watching the way that my like ~*mafia idols*~ play and win games

Out of curiosity, who would those be?

[dramonic]

I feel like Hiriki is distant. Also rhetoric is performative, but using it negatively in a way that Draco is not.

I have no idea what you just tried to say.
But yes, the owl is pretty sad.

[dramonic]

Why is this day dragging so much, can we seriously not just execute in (hiraki, dunn, gypx, A50, gamma) and move on?

So Hiraki, how does it feel to be wagonned entirely by scum?

[dramonic]

am I pocketed by Menalque?

it's possible I'm underestimating his scum game but he feels like the player most genuinely trying to solve the game rnow by a long shot

Whatever you're on, it's not healthy

[dramonic]

That’s nice

Hey guys, you can get a midgame alignment swap if you vote hiraki! Try it!

Please tell me about my Bell read in this game?

[dramonic]

Hiraki is scum or hiraki is not scum

The gamestate looks very different depending on which one of those is true

The only way to find out is flipping him and seeing what colour shows, so can we get to the doing that please instead of this endless back and forth in a no-info gamestate?

We'd get plenty more information from your flip or Jake's, the latter because his wagon is stalled for no reason, the former because we'll get to out the people who think you spending 200 posts doing absolutely jack besides ask other people to feed you thoughts you can emulate is somehow town.

I think dann is still very probably town despite a slight unease around his dunn flip flop. I doubt anything that will happen without a flip bus going to change my read on you or dann unless you were to legit scumslip which let’s face it, won’t happen

He says as he just flip flopped off the dunn wagon

I mean if we're talking about flipping for info I'm somewhat interested in Jake given that slot has been the top wagon all day

^^^^^^^^^^^^

I mean if we're talking about flipping for info I'm somewhat interested in Jake given that slot has been the top wagon all day

Okay but counterpoint

I think hiraki will flip scum and I don’t think Jake will

Like hiraki is the most productive slot to flip who I actively think will flip scum

There's nothing productive to flip from hikari. People voting him are mad that he's abrasive and doesnt want to join in the massive kumbaya nightmare this game has been, and can't distinguish between that and scumplay.
There's like... A solid 2% chance Hikari flips scum.

[dramonic]

and scum is just lightly positioning around them.

wonder whom

your broader thoughts would actually be welcome, rather than this empty aside.

also re: Jake

I just noticed he isn't voting a counter wagon despite being the top wagon himself. maybe his strategy is just to look town and hope the pressure evaporates, but the lack of any counter push at all from him is curious

I agree with this. This is why I pressured him on picking someone to focus on rather than saying "someone on my wagon is BAD!" He was unable to do that.

Wouldn’t a strong counter be more survivalist ic at this point? I’m not sure what point the two of you are making — sure it’s interesting, but how are you taking that?

Not following.

me implying that Jakes lack of a push/joining the larger counterwagon could be viewed as Townie. I’m pretty content that I’m not voting that slot today.

Why would he? I'm pretty sure he can see his wagon is stalled and this town is idiotic enough to hang themselves if he doesn't do anything.

[dramonic]

Dram who are your four scum at this point?

Menalque Jake Bell Dann.
The latter two are flexible, but I am REALLY not feeling this whole "let's lynch a lurker instead of scumreads!" charade.

I'm solidly town on Hikari and gamma
somewhat town on testa

There are other players in this game.

[dramonic]

yeah but it hasn't gone up, if that's what you're asking. if you're asking if there's more fuel, sure. is it fuel that i want to burn right now? no - i enjoy my brain cells and i understand that he's not dying today so it's not worth my time

For the same reason Jake isn't dying right now I'd wager. They're both excellent wagons, clogged by people screaming "Well my grandma's sister's cat's third niece played a game where Menalque posted, so I think he's town here"

[dramonic]

i’m hearing you complaining about cliques here draconic.
Is that a correct interpretation.

That's one way to word it.

I’m seeing a pattern of you trying to break up any consolidation of town reads.

Not sure what you mean.

[dramonic]

Ignoring the wall of AtE

Maybe hiraki or draconic will get shot and you won’t have to worry about it.

lol I'm not that lucky

You don't have to be lucky, you choose where that bullet goes mate.

[dramonic]

@bell: my username is dramonic, not draconic.
I'm not a wyrm

[dramonic]

Maybe one of draconic’s mafia idols is radiantcowbells.

I've been on ms for quite some time before raybell

[dramonic]

VC 1.14

Jake The Wolfie (5) - Almost50, dramonic, Hiraki, Testarossa, Menalque [E-2]

Dunnstral (1) - teacher
dramonic (1) - Gamma Emerald
Bell (1) - Marashu
Menalque (1) - Dunnstral
Dannflor (1) - Bell
Marashu (1) - Dannflor
Hiraki (1) - Jake The Wolfie

Not voting: Gypyx

With 13 alive it takes 7 to exile.

Day 1 will end in (expired on 2020-08-23 18:40:00) or when an exile is reached.

Bell is V/LA until Monday.

Menalque is V/LA until August 21st.

"This VC is odd. Why are there so many voters not on the same person, but then you look at me and there are 5?"

The townbloc is voting you and you're getting bussed.
We have a couple clowns voting random slots, 2 afk and teacher playing blind darts with his vote


Edit: can we stop saying people are moving down and up without specifying the ladder? I have no idea what yall are even trying to blabber about

[dramonic]

This might be your first lucid post this game

[dramonic]

Though I wouldnt consider anyone here god tier

[dramonic]

@1274
Counterpoint: Menalque just put Jake solidly in their scumpool but has called Jake slot town all game.

Saying I'm not reevaluating is inaccurate. "yep, still scum" is a reevaluation ya rude muffin.

I might take the time to dismantle the wall, but it feels like a lot of wasted energy.

[dramonic]

I don't think the tantrum is alignment indicative. I think it shows [REDACTED]

[dramonic]

I think Jake is town because I kind of doubt that scum enters the game as the top wagon and thinks “yes, I shall now commit hard to speaking in a gimmick voice for the rest of the game!”

Has your read on Jake's slot evolved at all since TH replaced out?

I think that his entrance is prob +town?

Idk I think bell was going back and forth with me on this, but I’m somewhat doubtful that Jake reps in as top wagon and thinks “yes, this is an optimal game for me to do my gimmick in!” As opposed to doing tryhardy posting

Flip side, despite being committed to the gimmick he has been kinda tryhardy

Mostly a big fat idk. I think you had a point that I don’t have town!meta on haven to make a comparison to, but she just felt townie and I like, hate the pressure on that slot apart from testa (And tbh testa’s vote there coupled with low activity is the main reason testa isn’t in my top tier of TRs)

I mean if we're talking about flipping for info I'm somewhat interested in Jake given that slot has been the top wagon all day

Okay but counterpoint

I think hiraki will flip scum and I don’t think Jake will

Like hiraki is the most productive slot to flip who I actively think will flip scum

Dann, teacher
Umlaut, testa, dram
Triple, marashu
A50
Gypx, dunn
Gamma
Hiraki

Menalque, could you elaborate on your town read on TripleHaven? Is there more to it than meta?

Not really, and I didn’t love her recent posts but overall she reminds me significantly of last game with the key exception being a lack of paranoia of me. I’m putting that down to my being town last game tho and then playing the same here, so I think it makes sense she’d be less concerned

ya'll starting scumreading me from my first post and your guys reasoning for voting me hasn't evolved since like page 10

ok, TO BE FAIR- most of my games are turbos (16 minute/8 minute) games and nobody takes them seriously.

i'm assuming thats why you found me useless in my recent games

I think this is fine

sorry these are not in order.
also I'm not gonna start looking for "th" in Menalque's iso, cuz I don't have 20 hours to skip over every instance of "the"

[dramonic]

Also, I suppose I can something I was trying to convey with my wall much more concisely.

Basically, I *really* think Menalque is town here.

If you think I am town as well, maybe take that into some consideration. Although I'm not asking you to change your reads just because mine are different.

And I know dramonic thinks I'm scum but I don't really know why I feel like he just calls me that because I defend Menalque and pushed Hiraki at one point

Your opinions on Menalque/Hiraki have little to no bearing on my read of you tho. I don't think you're allied with Menalque, so you'd have no reason to lie about your read there even as opposing scum.
Your play seems to be more centered around not ruffling feathers than actually catching scum is one major issue with you, along with pushing for lurkers vs informational lynches.
Teacher has presented similar problems, but he's so INTENSELY passive about everything that I'm ambivalent at this point because it could just be a really... playstyle. Also he seems to vote literally by playing roulette, so I dunno man.

There, you got your civil exchange, now stop being dumb <_<

[dramonic]

I might be confbiasing too, but by my second post I had scum in that game (also 1 town, but different setups and mechanics and I'm not about to reread that whole game the sake of this argument)

[dramonic]

The game I was town

[dramonic]

porque no los dos?

[dramonic]

Sorry if you’re town btw I kind of hate this sort of elimination. Because if I were a better player I would know what you were instead of putting the onus on you to show it.

..."this sort of elimination"?

[dramonic]

If we're not going to eliminate Jake after a vt claim then we shouldn't have asked him to claim at all. Eliminate teacher.

I don't see your vote on Jake.

[dramonic]

Because I don't want to eliminate him, but if you guys are going to force him to claim you should go through with it instead of backing out after a claim.

Unfortunately I only have the 1 vote.

[dramonic]

What does that entail, for those of us who don't care to metadive?

[dramonic]

Huh, thanks.
This seems like a real scum hunting perspective to me. I think he believes what he's saying, I don't agree with the tells he's using. If he's trying to hide his partner in that list, I don't see it.
The dramonic read is the worst of the bunch imo and there's nothing like an attempt to understand him in that read. Which could be scum.

You do realize the entire readlist is just people voting him are null to scum, people not voting him are town

[dramonic]

Teacher notable exception because teacher is teacher

[dramonic]

It must take a lot of effort to be this antitown

[dramonic]

It must take a lot of effort to be this antitown

"I am more amused at how there is yet to be a successful counter to the votes on me. I could have very easily have voted Marashu, but I think that Hiraki is undeniably evil."

It's more that your wagon has stalled because ??? And people are throwing votes at everything to see if it can gain traction.
It's incredibly depressing considering at least SOME proportion of the clowns must be town

[dramonic]

Still amazed that people are actively ignoring how Menalque's read of you mysteriously going from supertown to probscum.
Excellent town play all around this game.

[dramonic]

That was a syntaxic failure but you know what I meant

[dramonic]

Please don't encourage him

@Bell: show me read progression and we'll talk

[dramonic]

Also that last Bell post this was a cardinal sin but ill ignore it cuz its too much energy for little return

[dramonic]

@Bell: I'm gonna assume you're intentionally playing stupid.

[dramonic]

mena is still just town.

RCE talk about why TH likely town when you get a chance? that slot is currently the top wagon

?

[dramonic]

Maybe we can elim scum now

RCEnigma replaces Testarossa.

guess not

[dramonic]

Almost get your ass back on Jake.
@Dann: Who said I was playing in good faith?

[dramonic]

i was talking to dunn, I already know you're not

fair, didn't you grabbed the OG

[dramonic]

I like how A50 plays. I just want him to convince me he's town and/or why to vote for Jake.

I don't have/need to convince you of anything. I've already explained why I am not going to provide reads 9aside from the one my vote is on, which is obvious) and I also already explained why I am on Jake. If my reasoning doesn't convince you, just try someone else who also voted Jake (or his predecessor), and of still not convinced then don't vote him. *Shrug*

I didn't read anything prior to my entry so I must have missed it.

Please read the game.

[dramonic]

Vote your buddy plz

[dramonic]

@Bell: Temporal edited the OP before posting that you replaced in. Why I was looking at the OP in those 5 minute I don't remember tho.

[dramonic]

I dunno, the constant counterwagons to Jake feel pretty disruptive

[dramonic]

marashu, almost, dunn?
That's a strange question.

[dramonic]

I agree with the first 3 lines, but disagree with your conclusion.

I'm much more inclined (or confbiased, if you feel that way about me) to think that the repeated half-assed attempts to swing a wagon somewhere else is indicative of Jake being scum.
1. His buddy doesn't want to lynch him and have to solo the game, especially cuz they can just lose to a lost bullet.
2. The opposing scumteam has no incentive to lynch him, he's exebait to them. (I'm aware this is true regardless of his alignment). Testing the waters on other wagons is much more beneficial to them.

If Jake was town any scum coulda just taken the easy hammer when it was available with little suspicion, and to be quite blunt his continued existence benefits both scumteam EVEN if he somehow flips town.

[dramonic]

I haven't caught up but I've done a couple ISOs

I do want to point out that there's a lot of "I would vote [x] if a wagon on them happens but I'd rather compromise on someone more viable"

We do have a good bit of time so I think this is a good time to experiment with wagons

Wow, so town

[dramonic]

Probably?

[dramonic]

happy scumday dann

[dramonic]

Teacher I hope your subject isn't math, cuz that made zero sense on multiple counts.

[dramonic]

Bzzt
By your admission it would be 6-3

[dramonic]

??
Start with the current wagon (5)

• Add me (intent before and 12 hour vote now) - 6
  
• Bell (vote before, and intention to return 'tomorrow ish' stated yesterday) - 7
  
• Dunn (intent given, and desire to lynch through VT claim) - 8

How do you get 6 from that?

...You literally said bell and Dunn didnt count

[dramonic]

You can't list 4 people as a block and attribute then variable status of worth arbitrarely that's just confusing.
No wonder you teach history :p

[dramonic]

Let’s try another way, why are you not concerned about the lack of a sustained cw/the inertia of the last 4ish days?

Who says I'm not concerned? i'm very concerned that the wagon will fully stall out long enough for the horror that is this town to string up a townslot instead of the obvscum. The fact none of the counterwagons so far have been sustained isn't a concern tho because they're all built on garbage, meta and flustered feelings as opposed to scumplay. They shouldn't survive minimal amounts of critical thinking.

Jake is an easy wagon with a paused deadline. I haven’t seen a good reason for him over someone like Dunn or Marashu besides “gamestate.”

gosh, I wonder if

reading the game you replace in

would help

[dramonic]

I have tried to push through I think 3 different wagons now other than Jake this day phase

every single one has lost momentum and I'm starting to think it's not possible because the loudest voices refuse to move from Jake

I'm getting sick of this gamestate and I want it to progress and unfortunately I'm not sure that it does if he doesn't die

Keep trying, Im pretty sure itll work eventually

[dramonic]

That's already been answered.

[dramonic]

I wish yall could feel like I felt when we got the Jake flip.
I've got thoughts, but ill wait for everyone to chime in in case we have guiltoes
Edit: what teach said minus all the math

[dramonic]

I really don't think dramonic or teacher or Hiraki are Jake's partner.

I have an ego, but not to the point of aggressively yelling at every counterwagon to me bussing my buddy from page 2.
Like if someone wanted to argue I'm wolf (moot at this point) we could have a talk, but anyone calling me mafia at this juncture needs to retire.

I'll vote Bell, but I still want to wait for everyone to at least chime in.

[dramonic]

Nah, I mean more that Marashu saying he doesn't think I'm not mafia is like saying he thinks water is wet.

[dramonic]

zoom fast night zoom
vote: Bell

[dramonic]

mafia could also have rolecop which means they know the PRs anyway, not helpful unless they have something helpful

Vote: Chemist

I think there's a fairly solid chance mafia does have said rolecop and actually saw Dunn Night 2, which is how he ended up shot today. The quick night works out for them because they get to silence a strong town role against them.

I want a massclaim before we hit scum.

If we have 3 living PRs with one good result, we can win from here.

[dramonic]

...also Marashu is a claimed PR and I was the spearhead of that wagon '_'

[dramonic]

Do you realize how thoroughly fucked I'd be in a game with possibly 2 PRs who can catch me, the solid chances of a crosskill and not letting counterwagons happen this much?

[dramonic]

The remaining mafia player is either someone very experienced, very smart, or very lucky. Their kills were both on point for their win condition. Calculated risk, etc.

I'll take the compliment :p
I'd be most tempted to ex between gammaslot and chemist
...
Coincidentally, you are gammaslot

I still feel fairly strongly about mafia having a rolecop, because the dunn shot feels really... arbitrary? Scum has information over us by virtue of knowing which setup we can be in, I don't see why they wouldn't try to shoot a bigger townslot.
RCE was just meant as a low-info bullet that hit ww imo.

btw we're lynching chemist today regardless

[dramonic]

exec*

[dramonic]

Bah.
I think the game is on lock anyways
I'm the doc

[dramonic]

Gonna wait for Hiraki and Almost50's claims, but from there we can drive to the win.

[dramonic]

I guess Chemist's too

[dramonic]

I'm a gambling man

[dramonic]

nah

I'm not actually the doc.
or a PR for that matter.
Teacher kind of hit the nail on the head earlier today in regards to scum having a window to fakeclaim a PR as a goon and I wanted to block that window since there was no way they'd CC me (they COULD have, but they didn't).
Teacher and Marashu's roles are actually just named townie, we don't have clears on penguin and chkflip.

Don't think it'll matter much, since just lynching chemist ends the game, but otherwise I'd actually expect Hiraki or Almost to double-down and CC me as a goon, reading through my plan.

anyways

vote: chemist

Feel free to chastise me :p

[dramonic]

They know I'm lying chk, they know they're a goon and therefore there is no PR besides the dead cop.
It's not a risky CC

[dramonic]

I literally just explained that <_<

[dramonic]

exhibit A)
If I were scum, nobody questionned my claim. I can shoot you tonight and win because we autolynch chemist, almost and hiraki.

[dramonic]

I’m missing something, maybe?

Scum never counter claims today or tomorrow because if they do, we can eliminate both claimants and autowin.

Only scum knew we were in column C.

If we were really in column A or B, someone could have counterclaimed Dram, and town would lynch both

So Drams fake claim would have had the downside of: outting our PRs (as it did) and the upside of.....what exactly, if you do not assume knowledge that we are in column C?

You're missing something, indeed.

If we were in A/B, someone woulda CCed me and I'd just back out. Neither dies in that instance. From there we just win because your clear pool shrinks the suspects to just those 3, but if you were a guardian instead
A) neapo/tracker has at least 1 clear hopefully
B) Doc makes for 4 townslots (I'm counting myself) and it's really improbable that we miss scum 3 times in a row?


Scum knows we're in column C.
Scum knows my claim is a lie.
I think savvy scum might CC me because they know I have to back out of the claim if challenged (cuz I'm not a PR and we both know it).
Less experienced scum cowers at the claim and claim VT, revealing the setup to the town.
Everyone knows we're in C


Compare and contrast no claim today:

Scum still knows we're in column C and therefore knows both town living PRs are just named townies.
They can fakeclaim with impunity because we have no way of knowing if they're lying unless we have a living auditor who has checked them and hasn't claimed before they do.

In case you forgot, I may be spearheading but I'm not truly confirmed so I was in your "not confirmed" pile. In a vacuum I would expect whoever is alive in endgame lynched over a WIFOM PR if it comes down to endgame between the two of them not being "confirmed".


tl:dr you're gonna die, but scum has no tactics left beside play.

[dramonic]

they know they're a goon

i don't follow this either, how do they know that? i thought the roles on the mafia/wolves tables were separate?

...cuz they read their role PM? Scum knows their own role?
I don't understand how you're questionning this :p

exhibit A)
If I were scum, nobody questionned my claim. I can shoot you tonight and win because we autolynch chemist, almost and hiraki.

and since i am town, i would then lynch you tomorrow for not being dead. this is the realization that i think you keep forgetting and why this is making me paranoid

doc implies a scum roleblocker, I can get blocked and teacher shot. -> we exec one of you/almost -> I got blocked and marashu shot -> we exec almost/you -> I win


And sorry I assumed you'd catch on as scum.

[dramonic]

I might be overestimating scum here, but there is (well was) little benefit to not CC me as scum, especially after Teacher listed his investigations.