Open 789: Two-Fold 2d3 [Game Over]

[Testarossa]

Howdy.

VOTE: Almost50

Claims to be Almost50. Is in truth Beyond50.

Eliminate all liars.

[Testarossa]

I am not really sure how to weigh in this Mena/Dann/Hiraki conversation as it looks a little bit like a personality clash too I think. At least Dann/Hiraki.

Now after reading through for the first time I liked Dann. His questions feel like there lies some intention behind to understand Hiraki's motive. I also mindmelded similar about Haven (160) and to an extent Dunn (78), minus the meta knowledge.

One thing I am wondering here is how your read has evolved here, dann? I mean you were considering Hiraki already in 148 and 151 as caught for wrong reasons, immediately after your vote, which is the conclusion you reached later in 222. It doesn't really seem like it has evolved? Or were you considering he might also has been stubborn town? Although you weren't really leaning on that either if I understood you right.

[Testarossa]

Menalque's original reason for voting Hiraki can actually be pretty easily resolved. Shame we can't weigh in on this anymore. But going by what I saw from Menalque so far it's nai anyway and it got the ball rolling, so what. I think I can relate to his confusion for Hiraki's push on him, also don't think he overreacted (where?). Him taking a step back, when he looks imo better in that conversation is slightly positive.

As for Hiraki, he misinterpreted Dann's 148 imo, but going by the fact how he even doubled down on that it seems at least genuine. The reaction test thing is eeeh, like Mena's vote wasn't even a reaction to it nor was there much to come out of it either.
Hiraki, can you explain why you think Mena overreacted in a scummy way? Is it just the semantics argument about it painting as a "hard push"?

[Testarossa]

The only ISO that I actually had to reread after catching up was teacher's.

On first glance I liked you interrogating Hiraki about several points. But on second thought I don't really get out of your participation in this where you stand in all of this? Like I get Mena's and Dann's angle in this as they are scumreading Hiraki, but what about you? Your questions are focussed only on Hiraki in this, so I assume you are more or less on the same wavelength with them? (it's what I interpret between the lines)

What did you mean with Mena harping too much over this issue in 185?

[Testarossa]

Yea, I had a scum tingles on Hiraki but wanted to try to understand him, and was trying to limit the inflection of my own views to avoid the "wont interact with scum/people thinking Im scum" routine while getting my questions answered. I found my self hard vibing with Dann when he joined the interchange, so I agree with your interpretation.

As for Mena harping a lot on it, 135 159 and 183 struck me as a lot of appeals to outside adjudicators. I liked the first one, but by the last it seemed to get kinda....much/overly directing attention?

Fair enough. Tbf I was getting scummy vibes from you, because I was considering you might be a bit on the fence here regarding Hiraki despite having a clear direction in your posts. Using that approach to form a better read on Hiraki is townie though as I think you could have let Hiraki look worse in the conversation if you wouldn't try to get more out of him this way.

You kind of answered what I would have asked to the lower paragraph in 277. I am not really getting it though, unless I am somehow misinterpreting something here. Does it look weird for Mena to appeal to the crowd when he gets frustrated in a conversation with someone scumreading him? (and his own scumread) What made it look like scum theatre? I get that you missed the detailed case of him, which made you change your mind later, but I am not really sure how you reached the conclusion, because I would think if you think an interaction looks like SvS you would be aware of each case.

[Testarossa]

I’m playing by my new fire pit with a cigar for the evening. I want to get out of my current conversational tunnel. Can anyone offer me a take on umlaut, gypyx or testa?

Mostly null on Umlaut, however I am mildly scumleaning on him in 186 for his response to Dann's 70, because of the clause with "though weak, because of multiball" which imo makes no sense in the context of Dann's post. I am aware of the multiball dynamics, however you either townlean on Dann for his stretchy page 2 reach or not, I don't see how the existence of a second scum team plays into this.
What makes you leaning town on Umlaut?

Gypyx looks null, maybe a bit careful and hasn't read everything thoroughly yet, but that can mean anything.

[Testarossa]

I'm not really a huge fan of Testa or Gypx avoiding taking a real stance on Hiraki

That's more because I struggle with getting proper reads on people who tend to be become more aggressive/heated in a conversation with specific 1-2 players about a single subject, who in my experience often just look bad if it's just about one certain subject. As you pointed out in your response to me, I am kind of assuming that a personality trait might be overshadowing a bit rn. I am null on him and prefer the approach here to see him act and behave with other people on different subjects to get a proper impression here.

[Testarossa]

1. Multiball dynamics matter because scum do want to scumhunt, just the other team. (I infer the townlean on Dann was for starting substantive discussion)

Yes, I know and in certain cases this applies to, I just think it's a cheap way to let a window open to backpedal from a townread, because multiball. That's how I got interpreted it too, but I mean either you think Dann looks like town for starting discussion or you think that it could potentially come from scum. I don't see why a second scum team would matter here.

[Testarossa]

I agree with a lot of what dram has said, but I think I feel more strongly that teacher is scum than Dann is scum.

Originally I felt we were getting similar vibes regarding teacher in the beginning with his moderate attitude, at least from your first bigger post. I am rather leaning town there atm, what is it that makes you scumreading teacher?

And yeah, what does it mean to you that Mena seems more meta focussed here? (although I think a lot of it was just site meta talk) Do you think it's alignment-indicative in comparision to your last game with him?

[Testarossa]

I am not sure if it is because it's so late or because I felt some discussions during catching up were so redundant. Tbh it felt like Mena/dram conversations aren't hardly going anywhere and I don't feel I get anything that useful out of these.

A50 being cagey about his townreads was a bit curious, his thinking makes kind of sense though. What I actually liked was his approach to his scumread Haven, he wasn't damning her, but actually genuinely tried to pass the ball to her in order to show to him that she is town. Feel ok with calling A50 town here.

I have to reread Gamma again tbh (hi and welcome!), his strong stance pro Hiraki is definitely interesting, tbh it feels a bit too strong to me to call them partners though.
I am so-so on his dram suspicion, I think "filling" the four slots for his scumreads isn't really scummy, to me it's a bit more concerning that his four reads seem to be that static. Which seems a bit odd regarding Dann and teacher, where I think he wasn't that confident as with Mena/Haven. His conviction feels pretty real to me if I go by his Haven case. Not really scummy, I just wonder if he has a tendency to get into an early tunnel.

The scummiest slot seems to be Haven, I didn't found her first posts and self-awareness that scummy. It's her acting once she got pressured by dram and A50, instead of trying to figure them out it's either excuses or lashing back. Ok with voting her, but want to read through the games that A50 pointed out by tomorrow, to draw my own conclusion out of it, if he says that this behaviour comes from her as any alignment. VOTE: TripleHaven

[Testarossa]

@Gamma:
Sorry, if I just missed it while catching up, what is your take on Dann and teacher, if you are town on Hiraki? Or are you only wary about Mena on those, that are pushing him?

[Testarossa]

Apologies, wasn't my finest idea to play two games at the same time. I am used to shorter games and it starts to show. Will try to manage. Caught up now though.

@Mena:
I think I get the gist of the Dunn suspicion, but can you explain gypyx to me? That guy is as null as you can be, his last post with the question about Dunn aside (I will just make the reaching stretch here, that it would probably imply that gypyx/Dunn or gypyx/Dann is no thing). Only curious because you bothered to say he was high in your scumreads (735) and said he wasn't really a great place to vote (851), although I agree with your reasoning for the latter. What makes him more than null? Especially because his only scummy post came in later.

[Testarossa]

Again for Mena:

As for Hiraki, I actually looked into the game you linked in 640. I am not that sure this game helps a lot though. What I got from it is that here seems to be a pattern that he preferably responds to people he is in disagreement with (or voting him) or he is scumreading, which kind of mirrors his behaviour here imo. He even had the same sassy attitude when confronted with something like being suspected for post count, which shows here too in his stance on the whole meta thing. Kind of agree however that he seemed a bit more cooperative, even if he had to explain his scumreads again. Have to admit, that I haven't read all interactions in full detail though.

What makes you think he is engaging with bad faith here in comparision and that the interactions between you two aren't awkward like that, because he simply stubbornly thinks your reasons are "bad"? (justified or not aside, because people are subjective and of course always right)

[Testarossa]

"I don't partake in my vote lingering on someone for whom I don't have strong feelings about one way or the other. I can understand all 4 votes on me however. Could the four fine and lovely people voting me detail an explanation for voting this body? Optionally, could everyone else explain their votes on who they chose? Be a doll and do it for me, thanks."

You understand all four votes on you and yet you have to ask for explanations?

How about you say what you think of your wagon? We more or less know what you think of Hiraki, what do you think of A50, me and dram?

teacher is being v. Pro social and trying to create harmony(on first impression, except one kinda weird post he made), so what are you seeing dunn?

What is teacher's weird post? Do you think this attitude would indicate town or would you tend into a similar direction as Marashu did for a while?

Are we in rvs rn Dunn. Because that looks like an rvs level accusation.

Do you think Dunn's accusation is bad? Why so or why do you think it would be wrong? (if that is the case)

[Testarossa]

Actually tried to read Haven's games, but none of A50's links worked for me, so either I am just incompetent or whatever.

Read her weird gun game though, which wasn't much of a help because she never really was under any meaningful pressure there compared to this game. I remember it was Mena who was townreading her based on former experience? Can you explain why you have been seeing parallels here? Because I think at least that game was way more different, especially because I feel her questions were more purposeful with the goal in learning about other players in mind.

[Testarossa]

@teacher:
Considering you were nullscum on Marashu, what do you make of their recent posting? Particularly about his reflection of his arguments concerning his read on you?

I am done, sorry for the multiposts.

[Testarossa]

Cool, we got a penguin. Can we keep him?

[Testarossa]

Tbh I am not really that sure what to make out of the current situation.

I agree with Dann that the lack of survivalism speaks a bit in Jake's favour. He is basically just rolling over.

However I am still not seeing anything that is changing my mind here objectively. Even after the replacement the slot looks pretty self-concerned, asking questions that aren't really leading anywhere to and no real attempts at sorting people (besides maybe Mena?). Was kind of hoping for more here.

[Testarossa]

Not feeling the Marashu wagon too much, but at least I would be interested in him explaining his transition from teacher away after rereading the game and what information he is hoping to see in a Jake flip. (alignment aside)