Micro 962: Geriatric Trio II (Town Victory)

[Klick]

Hiya everyone. I'll read up on this tomorrow afternoon.
I read about 6-7 pages a couple of days ago and the main things I remember thinking were that clidd was town and AGar looked fairly scummy.

[Klick]

Spoiler: catchup notes

SK is fairly likely town

Why does Reck think the early DK reads list has any chance of being serious?
The subsequent argument is pointless in such a way that doesn't feel like what scum really wants to do early game. Town points for Reck

Clidd is obvtown from the very start and it does good things for Bingle that he immediately thought the same in post 34.

41 is a really towny post by Datisi, SK is solving and the note to Clidd seems like a legit town observation

64 is good too, there's a lot here I agree with. And the stuff I don't agree with is easy enough to see from Reck's perspective. Probtown

I agree with the general 'bugspray is probably scum' vibes. But I'm looking forward to Bulge's contribution to the slot

81 by AGar isn't doing anything good for me and I have no issues with him being scum so far. A few blanket opinions that don't really touch or look to engage with anything. Dunno how else to describe what I'm seeing here other than like, it feels like these reads were put out because AGar needed to have reads out there and there wasn't much else to it. Kinda reminds me of PranaDevil when I was buddies with him (which AGar was also in).

43 also reeks of scum motivation. He consciously puffs up his posting to seem like there's more there than there is, while the tl;dr of the post is that he's scumreading S&K for puffing up their posting to make it seem like there's more there than there is.

This feels a bit nonsense. 43 was obvious parody of what SK were doing.

Guys, KMD is scum.

I played as scum vs town!him and my tone was basically the same I'm using here (which is why Porkens is scumreading me, because he also played as town in the same game) but KMD is kind of ignoring me.

Town!Kmd would look at my posts and vote instantly on me.

clidd makes this post because he's town and thinks he's caught Kmd-scum.
clidd does not make this post as scum, because it doesn't accomplish anything. This playerlist isn't going to be persuaded by a post like this and Clidd is aware enough to know that this won't do much for him as scum. Furthermore, clidd!scum doesn't need to randomly go in on Kmd at this stage (regardless of Kmd's alignment). It just draws attention to clidd without any payoff.

Can we eliminate me then ? 5 or 6 players are scumreading me for bad reasons (in my opinion) and this will probably continue on later stages of the game.

If we flip my slot, my opinions won't be coming from 'scum' anymore and you guys can reevaluate the wagon on SK.

It's likely that I will be eliminated by PoE too, which is another point of not wanting to be alive.

On a scale of 1-10 how likely is it that clidd-scum implodes like this while having a partner that's literally anyone except bugspray

considering clidd wasn’t in any danger, i believe him

and as scum, I think you’d always be hyperaware of how others are going to perceive you, and this kind of thing I’d think you’d think makes people like you less

~kanna

Yes exactly this.

I'm on exactly the same page as Auro in 183, which scares me a bit. I feel practically nothing about MS but like there are scummier slots atm and they're... fine. Maybe I should just BoP Auro at the end of this if I'm not feeling super convinced on any particular scumread.

I feel the same way about Bingle that I did during Team Mafia. I like what he's doing with the game, but I'm struggling to remove him from the PoE pool because I feel like it'd be really easy for him to keep me feeling relatively fine about him. My gut says to just call him town. I dunno what to do about this and I don't anticipate it changing soon. But like... I probably don't want to floss Bingle today. And I realise that's two slots that I feel very *murky* on (Bingle and MS) but them's the brakes.

i poked them with a vote and asked them to explain them, but then they rep'd out. datisi has told me bugs doesn't like scum and perhaps this is a bit of a dirty read, but it really looked to me like they repped out cause they couldn't answer questions/was off to a bad start as scum.

I feel gross using this as reasoning, but yes this is right where I'm at with Bulgespray

clidd's posting on page 10/11 is literally just solving. Again, I'm seeing their posts as entirely from a town mindset at this point. The scum play there when everyone is saying clidd isn't doing anything isn't to give some empty reads list like in 251. He'd have to know that this playerlist wouldn't he thrilled with that.

Bingle's Current Readslist:

Bingle
S&K
Agar
Clidd
MS
Reck - null line
Bulge
Porkens
KMD

@Bingle

I'd like to hear why you think AGar is town if you still think he is at this point.

So... What about all the actual lying you did? No comment?

I don't lie. Even as scum. Good scum just vote scummy townies.

Mmm Kmd miiight be town? This doesn't feel like a helpful response to make as scum

Loving everything about 259 except for the actual conclusions lmao. Reck reestablishes that he's town with that. I think Reck really doesn't like how clidd is playing and thinks the things he's doing are things that town shouldn't be doing. That would be correct, but equally sometimes town are going to play far from how you want them to, and I think clidd's play makes very little sense coming from scum. I'm hoping I can get you to come around on this Reck

I'm unenthusiastic about the Kmd push. I'm not surprised at all by the things Bingle is citing that apparently make Kmd scum, and they come across as more lazy-/bad-tells than scumtells. Kmd is responding about how I'd expect him to as either alignment as well. But like Kmd is looking like someone I'd likely compromise on if I couldn't get a better floss going. I want to get more out of their back-and-forth than I seem to be getting.

Bell's 375 reiterates the above ^ in a way that I like.

i mean that i think "too scum to be scum" is an easy thing to toss in here, but the extent to which kmd is ducking questions feels like way too far outside of the realm of "expectable scum play" and has entered a zone of "ok this is something to grasp onto"

@Reck

I agree with this as a decent summary of why a Kmd push doesn't feel quite right. It's also very similar to the reasons that I don't view the clidd slot as likely scum at all. Read through some of my early points about clidd in this post and tell me what you think? Tl;dr I think several of clidd's posts really don't make sense as 'scum trying to accomplish anything useful for their alignment', particularly the ones before he had a ton of heat on him.

Summary of my reads:

- SK and Bell are very strong townreads that I can't see myself budging on unless something drastic happens. Reck is at about that level.
- Bingle and MS are both somewhat towny, but I'm reluctant to be confident in either of those reads. I'm not surprised that Jingle and Auro are making me feel this way - dunno what volxen's excuse is. they aren't D1 floss material.
- The Kmd wagon doesn't quite feel right to me. Kmd is barely leaning town and I disagree with the reasons for scumreading him. Feels like flossbait.
- I would have no problems with flossing AGar or Bulge. Neither feels towny at all to me. I don't have super solid reasons to scumread them (I very rarely do), but I'd be very surprised if both of these players were town.

VOTE: AGar
He has had far too little attention today for how many people have casually shaded him. I want to see where this goes.

[Klick]

Not JK or MD.
After this post I'm going to look into the Kmd wagon and see what the votes there look like, considering Kmd is very likely town at this point.

@Klick: Where have people been shading Agar? I kind of thought he was a consensus tr and I don't really remember anyone expressing suspicion about him before now.

You and Kmd townread him from what I remember, but SK expressed suspicion of him with the TMI thing, Reck made one positive and two negative points about him and then put him in the top half of his reads list, and MS listed him and Kmd as the two people he thought were 'fine eliminations' in 183. I guess I'm surprised that no one has taken the opportunity to jump on him (other than SK for a bit)? Instead all the focus has been on Kmd/SK/you (and based on my current read of the game, I wouldn't be surprised if all of those wagons were/are on town).

I'm not a JK or motion detector. Motion detector should claim here because the only result they can get at this point is that KMD targeted someone.

This isn't true, is it? Motion Detector basically works as a Tracker if no other PRs are around, no?
Still think it would be correct to claim regardless.

also hi klick!!!!
klick reminds me of his entrance in that switch game
you were town there right?
did you know i played there
haha bet you didn't

Oh shit you were? Good, I was on point that game

Scumreading bugspray at this point is one thing, but there's no reason to strongly believe that scum!Bugspray would just give up and replace out because "everyone is onto me" at this stage of the game. Especially since SK already had said that their readslist was a joke before Bugspray replaced out. Datisi mentioned some games where he caught scum!Bugspray, but Bugspray also didn't replace out of those games.

I had the same impression of bugspray being likely scum for very similar reasons. I don't know bugspray very well, but it's fairly common knowledge that they strongly prefer being town to being scum and have a tendency to replace out of scum games. I've seen it happen far more often when they roll scum than when they roll town.
(And I strongly dislike having to make this argument, but it's there and it's definitely negatively impacting my view of the slot.)

Saying that he "TMI'd us as town" is basically saying that Agar is lockscum (town can't TMI), and I don't think that's merrited here.

What? This is an incredibly slippery argument - 'gut says you just tmi'd us as town' does not equal 'AGar is lockscum' and SK evidently don't think AGar is lockscum.
I also have an easy time following the AGar-TMI point and largely agree with it in concept. Unless you think it's exactly me/SK, at least one town is doing the things you're saying town wouldn't do here.


Sou and Kanna slot isn't scum, I'm like 90+% sure on that read. I'm lining up with their read on the game really easily and it makes me think they're town who thought the same things I did while reading.

[Klick]

Kmd wagon was Bingle, SK, MS and Bell. The first two were on him for a while, the last two jumped on right as I replaced in. MS and Bell votes both felt really hasty (especially considering there had just been a 24 hour deadline extension). SK vote is lazy/just sheeping Bingle for the most part.

If it's Bingle, I think they'd be pushing to protect exactly bugspray from getting attention today. I guess Bingle/SK also explains Bingle's push but their interactions don't feel S/S.

I don't think this wagon necessarily has to have scum on it yet (and if it doesn't, I'd say scum are likely to be very satisfied with the current gamestate). If there is scum, I'd lean towards MS.


VOTE: The Bulge

[Klick]

Reck if you're JK or MD you should claim it now. I will not believe you if you dodge now and claim it later. PRs aren't more important to keep alive than to CC scum with.

[Klick]

Well, at this point the only two possible counterclaims to Kmd are you and Bulge. If Bulge doesn't CC then either you're CCing or you know Kmd is town.

[Klick]

Oh what.

SK is not going to flip scum. There's a pretty solid chance that Bulge will.

[Klick]

Not like hugely, but more confident than I'd be in most other slots flipping scum?
I'm a lot more confident that SK doesn't flip scum.

[Klick]

Looool I suck.

No-kill gambit is entirely plausible in this scenario - it's got a 5/7 shot of practically guaranteeing a misfloss if Kmd targeted a townie, and they gain the kill back eventually because we're on evens.

There are plenty of people who don't make much sense as SK's partner, this game should practically be a lock. I highly doubt AGar goes for the hard bus all day yesterday. Still think it's super doubtful that it's Bell.
That leaves {Reck, MS, Bingle} in about that order. And I don't really think it's Bingle.

I'd also like to posit that 'blatantly buddying my scumbuddy' isn't a strat I'd be likely to go for as scum replacing into this game lol.

[Klick]

Hi AGar u alright

[Klick]

ok