Any special reasons from those PoVs? Just curiousIn post 7, Frogsterking wrote:I'm dying to hear the explanation from the Divine Prophecy and Philosopher point of views!
![:]](./images/smilies/icon_smiling.png "Cheerful Smile"){kind=icon}
Noob behaviour lol, still feels great to crush you and Italiano as scum though. The problem is, why is this thread the General Discussion Forum all of a sudden after I was asleep?In post 25, Redados wrote:Two truths and a lie:
1. I'm scum
2. I'm not scum.
3. I will not tolerate any "noob" behavior from ShellyC this game after she fooled me last game!
Well I agree that some of my earlier questions are similar to fluff. I have gotten useful reactions from my pushing of Redados. He says that the LAMIST / OMGUS are tongue-in-cheek and in RVS, leading to this Redados interaction with you. Without my questioning and push, Redados wouldn't have conceded that LAMIST / OMGUS are NAI and shouldn't get him scumread.In post 59, MagikHorse wrote:Have you managed on getting any useful reactions or info from the questions you're asking? I'm not seeing it if you are, but it's possible that I'm just a little too drowsy on the meds I'm on and missed it (though I won't be on these meds much longer fortunately).
RVS is when we get all the info for the rest of the game. If we don't get info out of RVS, what's the point? You basically said RVS was a time to play around and not be serious, which isn't true.In post 64, Redados wrote:I disagree. RVS is a time where you goof off and vote randomly, and then you learn from people's reactions to those random votes. Once people start reacting, RVS is over and then the goofing off ends.
Excuse me, did I do nothing?In post 67, MagikHorse wrote:RVS doesn't just magically make things NAI, or else we end up in Shelly's scenario where nothing ever gets done because nothing means anything.
Yes, I was scum that game. However I have rolled town in this game, and I have actually made an effort to not rephrase / repeat what others have said.In post 71, ItalianoVD wrote:Shelly is back to her repeat posting from last game when she was scum. And by repeat posting I mean she says exactly what the other player says, almost word for word. As I pointed out.
Information instead of analysis? that's a scumtell.In post 80, Frogsterking wrote:Be patient, learn about the other players, discuss setup mechanics, give scum more chances to make mistakes, double check your reads.
Actually, why don't you like MY push compared to other players' pushes on you? Italiano also said the same thing, and I'm curious why.In post 73, Redados wrote:The other pushes on me are fine but I am not a fan of Shelly's push on me.
I did express a null Italiano read and a slightly town MagikHorse read.In post 92, MUSHSHAGANA wrote:(Example: EVERYONE has an opinion on what me, Shelly and Redados are saying. No one is talking a lot about MagikHorse or ItalianoVD.)
Yeah ok I get it, taking the slow route and not bombarding the thread.In post 98, Frogsterking wrote:It seems important to clarify that by keeping the pressure low early on I wasn't promoting passive play I was promoting cooperation, less anxiety inducing situations etc., followed by applying pressure later when you've found an ideal target (if necessary.) It also seems important to clarify that by letting mafia force the interactions I was promoting the idea that as town we don't need to throw dirt and create conflict 1)early on 2) just for the sake of getting reactions. It seems like we agree about this in general except for shelly.
I see that you feel I misrepresented what you were saying Mush and I apologize for that and it was unintentional. I feel like in general we are on the same page about best play for town.
I also wanted to point out that making scum force interactions does help to identify them. In a game where neither of the scum players are getting townread and the town is getting along the scum will be forced to make something happen eventually or they will be lynched. I think that identifying forced interactions vs organic interactions is a foundational concept of this game. My thoughts are that if you as the town start tunneling someone to see how they react the scum don't need to force anything to happen because you are doing it for them.
At the moment I am most interested in hearing more from rock, Magik and Redados. I also find it hard to imagine a universe where I'm voting for Mush on d1.
What do you mean by this? I don't understandIn post 130, Fredrick A Campbell wrote:You seemed more concerned about being right than winning the game.
This is unusual to me. You didn't explain that unvote, you just said it isn't the right move. I wonder why - you were scumreading them and they didn't even respond or defend themselves much. This sudden change of vote makes my uneasy.In post 131, MUSHSHAGANA wrote:Frogster strikes me as ... well, that would be telling. Suffice to say, I am not sure a vote on him is the right move -- at this time.
This is not an argumentation or debate thread.In post 139, Fredrick A Campbell wrote:The post above shows that you are comfortable to assign a reason for why I came to the conclusion with disregard for the reason's accuracy. I suggest you start to attempt to understand the reasons a person holds their position instead of assigning reasons for it as failing to do so will result in your unintentional misrepresentation of a person's arguments and coming across as disingenuous. I believe this will make you appear more reasonable in future arguments.
I was telling him that there was no need to teach or advise me how to defend myself.In post 148, ItalianoVD wrote:Uhh, that’s actually the basis of this game.
So you are thinking I play aggressive / hostile? Is that NAI to you? But you're right, I should be more open-minded in order to look at all the possibilities. That is a weakness of mine.In post 153, MUSHSHAGANA wrote:Shelly seems unnecessarily hostile in general, I'd say. Some people have that as a behavioral trait, scum or town, as Frederick says. I used to be one of them, and I'm not just talking about Mafia. (I've managed to mostly dial that back.)
I'd also say that you're getting too hung up on the similarities and not looking for any differences is another reason I dislike your hyper-focused pushes. And for the record: if you see no differences at all, that means you're just stuck on this read and not actually thinking about it. Different game, different time, different players all mean different dynamics and thus different behavior.
Pick at the differences and let them aid your conclusion, /then/ you're actually scumhunting. (Similarities are also useful, but you can't focus all on one and not at all on the other and still get useful information.)
Who would actually like being scumread, to be fair? AlsoIn post 183, Redados wrote:Yeah. (ignoring last game) this game Shelly has been pretty active and pushing. I don't necessarily agree with her pushes because she reaallly does not like being scumread. I am still scumreading her.
So you just unvoted them... without any explanation. Why are the arguments they made "townlean"? With all the interactions happening, not even aIn post 187, rocknil wrote:I think I'm getting strong town vibe from MUSHSHAGANA.
UNVOTE: MUSHSHAGANA
Last game I sheeped people for half of the game. This game I had a readslist since page 3, called out numerous players for being scummy, and pushed aggressively. I don't get how I am "repeat posting" or "sheeping".In post 177, ItalianoVD wrote:That’s the thing. I feel like she is playing the same exact way. You are pushing for me to see differences and don’t like that I don’t.
Mafia is a game of social deduction. Part of being a good townie is being open and being able to be seen as a townie.In post 196, Redados wrote:You and I react very differently to being scumread. When I am scumread, I don't care, because I know that over time my towniness will shine through. You get defensive.
Your push on rocknil. He is clearly pretty new. I am not a fan of how you are communicating with him. I disagree with your pushes, and I am scumreading you.
I don't know whether it's LAMIST or anything, but yes, I did notice this.In post 199, MUSHSHAGANA wrote:Redados is doing this really odd thing I am not fond of, where he repeatedly makes offhanded references to how town he is. Incessantly. It's more like it's for his own sake than for anyone else's. "Ah, yes, my confidence in being town is such that I do not crack under pressure!" Repeat until you believe. It's a bad look.
Someone has to get limmed today. I will not lim my townreads Mush and Italiano. rocknil has said nothing of substance. There is a replacement on their way. So my null read gets in the lynchpool. Apologies if this logic is wrong.In post 202, MagikHorse wrote:Shelly, could you elaborate on Frogster? Last I knew you had him as null, and I don't really understand this scumread unless it's solely on his stated playstyle.
Well, not voting would get less info than voting. You vote for someone. Not voting votes no one.In post 226, Redados wrote:I think that Van spelled it out pretty clearly. It's not the voting in RVS that matters, it's how people REACT to the voting. Isn't not voting just as powerful of a statement, given that we can see the reactions to it? The more I think about it, the more I am thinking that it's not anti-town to not vote in the RVS stage.
Someone has to get limmed on day 1. We shouldn't No Eliminate. Also, in post 66, I was referring to RVS being the basis of info for the rest of the game, like the foundation.In post 234, Fredrick A Campbell wrote:EBWOP: So, what is the plan now? We just wait till Day 1 is over with no one executed?
No eliminate only helps scum. Scum will kill one townie every day. No eliminate means we have a 0% chance of killing scum.In post 237, Fredrick A Campbell wrote:I still think nothing of note was going on. Why I suddenly dig up a post from around 130 posts prior is precisely because nothing of note is going on.
Oh I didn't mean to quote it. Accidentally quoted the wrong post. Was refering to how you said we should no eliminate.In post 240, Fredrick A Campbell wrote:While I agree with what you are saying, what has that got to do with the post you quoted?
1. You entered by saying that I behaved the scummiest but may not be scum.In post 242, Fredrick A Campbell wrote:Finally, why do you think that initial interaction with you seems like scum trying to pressure you?
I have stated my lynchpool - either Redados / Fredrick / you. I would not lim either Mush or Italiano. I am fine with lynching lurkers/VI category.In post 247, Frogsterking wrote:I think we need to finalize a few candidates for the D1 lunch.
Posting a paper is NAI. Scum appears as town-helping. I don't know why you consider that AI - scum could dig up a paper and make a compelling case as well.In post 258, MUSHSHAGANA wrote:I'm going to post my first public read: I think Frogsterking is town. If he isn't town, he's unreadable. I think his playstyle edges a bit toward anti-town overall, he's focused on game-solving over scum-hunting, but scum has no reason to give town a weapon like that paper. Arguably against their win condition to do so.
I had always thought a No Eliminate didn't help town. I don't know how the two posts are relevant. #224 was talking about how Fredrick posted a load of nonsense. #238 was disagreeing Fredrick's no eliminate.In post 251, ItalianoVD wrote:Shelly can you explain what happened between 224 and 238 and what MUSH said to make you change?
Well, a townie would vote whoever is being anti town - policy elimination. I see your logic at how you are trying to say that you never scumread me, but I feel like you are framing your attempted attack on me to save yourself.In post 246, Fredrick A Campbell wrote:I believe I have clarified this but I will do it again. Behaving the scummiest does not mean the person is aligned with the mafia. Why should I want to vote someone out whom I don't think is the mafia?
I didn't say you were prone to winning arguments. I said you preferred to win arguments or, as you put it in the same point, want to win arguments. I consider it scummy behaviour, but like I said, don't think it is alignment indicative.
In the first place, I just said you behave the scummiest. In the very post I posted indicating whom I thought behaved the scummiest, I have already stated clearly that I thought who I thought behaved the scummiest mattered less than whom I thought was scum.
What do you mean shoot? Dayvig? I would go either Redados or Fredrick - leaning FredIn post 266, Frogsterking wrote:shelly if u could shoot anyone right now who would it be
I just didn't like using maths to discredit people. I scumread them for their interactions with me - trying to push me, then backing off and trying to frame me as null. They still have not pushed anything. They have not voiced their thoughts or susses. That's erratic, pointless and non town-helping play.In post 268, MUSHSHAGANA wrote:helly didn't like my playstyle surrounding my vote of Frederick, but otherwise had no real reason to offer that might make me back off.