Newbie 2025 | Lilies | Game Over

[Redados]

I know cryptography isn’t allowed so I am decoding it for everyone. I am breadcrumbing my alignment:

Look at the first letter of every sentence
At Me
Me Is So Town
I am town
Seriously Guys
Town I am town

[Redados]

VOTE: ItalianoVD for not having a stationary profile picture

[Redados]

Lol. Moving gifs are better and you know it.

ItalianoVD, if you happen to read this after the game, please change your avatar to be stationary lol

Only other player I know is Redados. How’s it going my dude?

I'm feeling pretty good and looking forward to playing again! I have a question for you: are you Italian?

[Redados]

Err I cared more about your location but thanks for sharing! There's so much to learn about everyone! I'm a gemini and I like long walks and playing racquetball every day.

Only one of those things is true but it sounded nice

[Redados]

Two truths and a lie:

1. I'm scum
2. I'm not scum.
3. I will not tolerate any "noob" behavior from ShellyC this game after she fooled me last game!

[Redados]

[Redados]

VOTE: MUSHSHAGANA

Reason: OMGUS!!!

[Redados]

Good point! MUSHSHAGANA voted for me. I am town. Therefore, Mush must be scum. Therefore, I vote for Mush. Facts. Logic. No emotional reaction whatsoever on my part.

[Redados]

By the way, what's the explanation of your vote?

Frogster, you haven't started by RVS (random voting). In a low info stage, why don't you vote?

Any special reasons from those PoVs? Just curious

The problem is, why is this thread the General Discussion Forum all of a sudden after I was asleep?

I'm not criticizing or praising (yet), but I am noting that there is a question in all four of ShellyC's posts.

[Redados]

Oh no. Shelly doing it again.

Shelly. No sheeping!

I will not tolerate any "noob" behavior from ShellyC this game after she fooled me last game!

VOTE: ShellyC

@MUSHSHAGANA I can’t say you are thinking too deep.

It is going to take me some time to get used to Mush's playstyle. My first impression is that she likes to post flowery walls of prose which are hard for me to read and get the gist of. I will need to get better at slowing down and reading those.

[Redados]

I am trying to generate information from the questioning. So you think that's a problem.

Something I want to point out is how Redados is scummy to me.
He started with LAMIST (saying it's cryptography), turns the thread into the general discussion forum, then votes with the reason of OMGUS. I would like to hear more from you, because I don't like how you are playing - a different vibe from your last towngame.

I'm not going to apologize for goofing around in RVS.

[Redados]

Last game I played with Redados I pushed him for listing a readslist on page 2, so I‘m probably not the best one to ask about reaching.

Please give me credit for having not yet posted a reads list!

[Redados]

Hmmm. I didn't think too hard on the "oh, Shelly asks many questions" thing Redados said, which may have been a mistake.

Reasons to say that:
Drawing attention to "fishing for ???" -- the information being gotten is on playstyle and game state changes. And that's not very scum-indicative. Unsure of why you'd draw attention to it -- say she's scum: put a fool in a rope factory and so on, you're just making it likely they'll play harder at hiding when they're role-fishing. And if she's town, it's a town thing to do, so it's very uninformative all around.

This is a fair assessment. My first thought was that Shelly is asking a lot of questions and they're not good questions. Then I looked at each of the questions and I would say that one of those was a good question (re: Frogster). So I didn't want to jump and say that Shelly is asking bad questions.

However, I don't think that Shelly is asking good questions either and that her other questions amount to fluff.

[Redados]

Why I made my RVS vote -- I said I had an actual reason, that makes it a way to get game relevant information. In fact, that is the actual point of RVS.

I don't think this was an important question. I don't think Shelly is wrong for asking this, I'm just saying that it's not substantial.

Why Frogster hadn't voted -- obvious.

I've already conceded this.

Why Frogster wanted to hear my reason in the specific ways he did -- not obviously game relevant, but there's literally not /anything/ to work with at that point, and it increases the amount of information she gets in his next post.

Not game-relevant and not super substantive. Again, she's not wrong for asking this.

And the "General Discussion" comment is... making the exact same observation you're saying that you're making, but as a general thing ("why is everyone focused on fluff") instead of a specific thing ("why is SHELLY focused on fluff"). And for the record, one is more reasonable than the other, since I've written more fluff by volume than anyone else and I haven't seen anyone finger-wagging at me yet.

I don't see it as an original observation, I see it as repeating someone else's observation but phrased s a question in order to make it seem substantive than it really is.

It is going to take me some time to get used to Mush's playstyle. My first impression is that she likes to post flowery walls of prose which are hard for me to read and get the gist of. I will need to get better at slowing down and reading those.

^Consider the above as me finger wagging at you.

[Redados]

Mush, thanks for your thoughts. I agree that Shelly's questions one and three were more substantive than I thought they were at first. I can admit when I'm wrong and adapt my opinion. I stand by posting that Shelly asked a question in each of her four posts.

[Redados]

Initial Impressions #1
- Redados: Posted that I asked questions, seemingly discrediting my curiosity, and I obviously didn't post fluff? But adapted his opinion. Don't like his LAMIST opening, and OMGUS voting. LAMIST / OMGUS are scumreads to me imo. Also I feel a different vibe from their last towngame in Newbie 2019.

OMGUS much?

I would like to remind everyone that LAMIST and OMGUS were both tongue-in-cheek and in RVS. As for "vibe", last game I was super stiff and then kind of relaxed my playing and posting style towards the end, and that's how I'm feeling now (kind of relaxed).

Townies are sure to act scummy every so often, and we have one person who hasn't posted and two (I think?) who have only posted once. Only one SE you could really call active. Consider we've only got between 3 and 5 meaningfully active players right now, and there's only two scum and a total of 9 players.

I feel it's very premature to push to eliminate right now.

It's fine, it's just a vote, she's pushing and being active. I'm not close to being limmed. I'm at what, E-3?

[Redados]

I don't want to press too hard when better than half of the players aren't active and have posted little useful information to make determinations with. I'd explain in more detail why it could be bad to press too hard too early, but that'd give the game away. Call it Day 2 I'll tell everyone, assuming I'm not dead. Reserving the right to say so earlier, of course, just setting realistic expectations in the longer term.

I'm not super enjoying this post.

Pushing players is fine. That's how we gain information and find scum. No, we don't want to eliminate five hours into day one. That's because the longer the day is and the more posts there are, the more information we gain.

I am not super enjoying your post.

[Redados]

Shelly is not pushing too hard. I disagree with the premise of your post. What she is doing is healthy for the game.

[Redados]

I'm not sure how I feel about Redados's reaction, and I didnt notice I was OMGUSing. Why are you relaxed this game? Any special reasoning?

Last game, I was pretty stiff initially because I didn't want to come across as scum (I was town, for reference). But eventually I figured it that if I'm just loose and post what I think, then I'll be fine.

I would like to remind everyone that LAMIST and OMGUS were both tongue-in-cheek and in RVS.

Does being in RVS give people a free pass to be so flippant? Doesn't this sort of behavior only gum up the thread and make it harder to get out of RVS, especially if more people were to do it?

You can make the statement that certain types of actions in RVS aren't useful, and that's certainly true. In what you quoted, I'm not saying "I get a free pass because it's RVS". I'm saying that it's NAI because it's RVS. Those are two different discussions in my opinion.

[Redados]

You can make the statement that certain types of actions in RVS aren't useful, and that's certainly true. In what you quoted, I'm not saying "I get a free pass because it's RVS". I'm saying that it's NAI because it's RVS. Those are two different discussions in my opinion.

Saying that this behavior is NAI because it's RVS is the same thing as saying you shouldn't be read off of it, which is just another way of saying "gimme a pass on this behavior, it means nothing". They're one and the same.

Why do you think this is NAI anyways?

I disagree. RVS is a time where you goof off and vote randomly, and then you learn from people's reactions to those random votes. Once people start reacting, RVS is over and then the goofing off ends.

In my opinion, overanalyzing RVS actions is unnecessary because the valuable information is in the

reactions

to the RVS. I could post as the first post of the game the words, "I am scum" and that is NAI because it's RVS.

OMGUS and LAMIST are scumtells, so I won't ever get to do them outside of RVS. I did them (in a tongue-in cheek way - as I literally said "LAMIST" and "OMGUS" in my posts, thus acknowledging them) because I thought it was funny and didn't matter. I still think that they are funny and that they don't matter.

NAI = Not Alignment Indicative

[Redados]

I disagree. RVS is a time where you goof off and vote randomly, and then you learn from people's reactions to those random votes. Once people start reacting, RVS is over and then the goofing off ends.

RVS is when we get all the info for the rest of the game. If we don't get info out of RVS, what's the point? You basically said RVS was a time to play around and not be serious, which isn't true.

That's not what I said. There's goofing off and then there's the learning from the goofing off. You need both.

[Redados]

ItalianoVD, ShellyC, and I played in Newbie 2019. ItalianoVD and I were town and ShellyC was scum. A lot of ShellyC's posts weren't really substantial; she would just synthesize what others posted. She was not creating as much content as it appeared on the surface.

I chalked this up to the fact that it was her first game, because when I first started playing Werewolf, I did the same thing. I wanted to participate and be part of it, and I saw what other people were saying and I kind of repeated it, synthesized it. So I gave Shelly the benefit of the doubt and assumed that she was just playing that way because she was new.

She was scum. She is kind of playing the same way so far in this game, and I'm not going to give her the benefit of the doubt anymore. I am scumreading her slightly. The other pushes on me are fine but I am not a fan of Shelly's push on me.

--

As an aside, if anyone is into meta dives, Newbie 2019 is only like forty pages long and it is the only full game of Italiano, Shelly, and myself on the whole site, and we all lasted until pretty much the end. So it might give more insight into our dynamic.

[Redados]

Thanks for the big post, Frogster!

Now both you and Mush have alluded to keeping the pressure low early in the day. I agree with the idea of not lynching until we've used all our time. But by saying, "we'll keep the pressure low", we don't LEARN anything. No one is going to care that they are being pushed because the pressure is "supposed" to be low. So I'm not really following this train of thought other than to say that I agree that we should use all of our time.

[Redados]

Prefacing by saying that this is probably NAI at this point, but I was curious so I assumed everyone else would be too:

Post count -
loz:

0

ItalianoVD:

7

shellyc:

14

Redados:

23

rocknil:

1

MUSHSHAGANA:

16

MagikHorse (SE):

7

Tatsuya Kaname (SE):

2

Frogsterking (SE):

4

[Redados]

If we are town it's usually better to let the scum force the interactions because it gives us a chance to figure out what they are up to and identify them. If you are scum you're hoping town will tunnel a lot and create a lot of noise which helps you hide and look for potential weak spots.

I agree with Shelly. I think that if everyone is active and engaged, that lets us get more information about who the scum is. If you try to let scum force the interactions, how do you know that the scum are the ones forcing the interactions? Quiet scum is scum we can't catch.

[Redados]

Hi, I'm just popping in to say that work has gotten a little hectic and I will catch up on the game tonight. I can't devote any attention to this game until later this evening.

[Redados]

Redados - They were my stated scumread. Still not looking too townie, and I am placing my vote on them for now. Would be nice to see a full response. Their recent posts have made me want to change my mind slightly though.

Just btw there won't be a full response. I'm going to keep a vote on my scumread for now and see what happens.

Prefacing by saying that this is probably NAI at this point, but I was curious so I assumed everyone else would be too:

Post count -
loz:

0

ItalianoVD:

7

shellyc:

14

Redados:

23

rocknil:

1

MUSHSHAGANA:

16

MagikHorse (SE):

7

Tatsuya Kaname (SE):

2

Frogsterking (SE):

4

This is not really helpful, given that anyone can simply scroll down to the bottom of the page, click "activity overview", and see every player's postcount at any moment. You can even get to everyone's ISOs from there too, just as you can by clicking the "ISO" button right next to the post number.

Are you just curious, or think there's something to gain from doing this? I'm suspecting the former for now given your preface.

I did not know that was a thing! I feel a little silly for ISOing everyone and counting.

Sooo, not much else going at the moment and we still have people who haven’t started playing yet.

With that said I’ve been thinking and I will admit that it’s more about ego here than anything regarding Shelly. I’m gonna back off. It would suck so hilariously bad if shellyc was scum again.

UNVOTE: shellyc

My tunnel vision isn’t gonna help the town though so...

I may be tunneling but I'm not pushing. I feel most comfortable leaving my vote on my strongest scumread, even if no one else agrees for now.

There's being agreeable, then there's busywork for the sake of looking active. This looks a lot more like the latter than the former to me, especially as they admitted themselves that it wasn't useful to do and there's a button that does it for you (though it's possible, if not probable, that they weren't aware of that).

I was not aware of the button.

[Redados]

I feel like redados was noticeably more open and aggressive during his D1 town play of the other game and it could be indicative of an alignment change but I think that's a little thin.

I'm playing this game differently so far, mostly because of IRL stuff. Last game I was hitting refresh and constantly checking the game and because of life circumstances, I am not available to do that right now. Last game was also a different type of game because there were less paragraphs and more one-liners, and I'm getting used to the new style. I'm getting used to paragraph vs paragraph. It's not an excuse, just more of an acknowledgement that I would like to get more involved with this game.

Last game too I was constantly posting reads lists and impressions as they came to me. I am struggling to develop reads right now. I feel very in-my-head regarding ItalianoVD and ShellyC; my impressions of them from last game are burned into my head and it's like the opposite of a meta read. It's not helpful and I'm trying to separate them in my head that they don't necessarily have the same roles as last game. I'm townreading Italiano but I feel like it's leftover town cred from last game so not genuine.

I'm town-reading Mush, but I don't really have reads on anyone else. Again, the paragraph style of posting is something that I need to get used to.

[Redados]

Yeah. (ignoring last game) this game Shelly has been pretty active and pushing. I don't necessarily agree with her pushes because she reaallly does not like being scumread. I am still scumreading her.

(using last game) I don't agree with Shelly's constant pushing because she was doing that last game; she kept yelling at MiniMegabyte for "scumslipping" (Mini was town). I think it's not helpful to latch onto small things and use them to justify a scumread. Sometimes you have a feeling you can't justify, but I think it's disingenuous to pull weak justification for your scumread. In retrospect, I may have done that with my initial scumread of Shelly, so I'm revising my scumread from a justified one to a gut one.

(ignoring last game) ItalianoVD has not been super active but he's posted enough. He's given reads and had conversations with people. I don't really have a handle on his alignment yet.

(using last game) something someone else said about how Italiano's playstyle might make him look scummier than he is resonates with me. I spent a lot of last game oscillating back and forth whether Italiano was scum or town and my impression is that he could hide it well enough if he were scum. It makes me scared to townread him or scumread him, although I'm townreading him now. I do feel like he was more active and off-the-cuff last game, but I haven't gone back and really ISOd and compared, which I will do at some point.

[Redados]

Yeah. (ignoring last game) this game Shelly has been pretty active and pushing. I don't necessarily agree with her pushes because she reaallly does not like being scumread. I am still scumreading her.

(using last game) I don't agree with Shelly's constant pushing because she was doing that last game; she kept yelling at MiniMegabyte for "scumslipping" (Mini was town). I think it's not helpful to latch onto small things and use them to justify a scumread. Sometimes you have a feeling you can't justify, but I think it's disingenuous to pull weak justification for your scumread. In retrospect, I may have done that with my initial scumread of Shelly, so I'm revising my scumread from a justified one to a gut one.

(ignoring last game) ItalianoVD has not been super active but he's posted enough. He's given reads and had conversations with people. I don't really have a handle on his alignment yet.

(using last game) something someone else said about how Italiano's playstyle might make him look scummier than he is resonates with me. I spent a lot of last game oscillating back and forth whether Italiano was scum or town and my impression is that he could hide it well enough if he were scum. It makes me scared to townread him or scumread him, although I'm townreading him now. I do feel like he was more active and off-the-cuff last game, but I haven't gone back and really ISOd and compared, which I will do at some point.

Hmm..

That was off the cuff so I'm curious to hear your reaction.

[Redados]

Yeah. (ignoring last game) this game Shelly has been pretty active and pushing. I don't necessarily agree with her pushes because she reaallly does not like being scumread. I am still scumreading her.

Who would actually like being scumread, to be fair? Also

not agreeing with my pushes != I am scum.

We just have different viewpoints and interactions.

You and I react very differently to being scumread. When I am scumread, I don't care, because I know that over time my towniness will shine through. You get defensive.

Your push on rocknil. He is clearly pretty new. I am not a fan of how you are communicating with him. I disagree with your pushes, and I am scumreading you.

[Redados]

Redados dodged MagikHorse's simple question in 128. While both the original post (81) and the question (105) aren't great, I find it odd that both Redados dodged the question and that MagikHorse never followed up on it. Why ask something if you're going to drop it without an answer? It's not a reactionary question in any shape or form, so there's little reason to drop it regardless of if you think you know the answer or not. This is especially true when you consider what MagikHorse said in 76 about pressure.

I more or less presumed an answer there really, as it really didn't look like he even thought about getting info from it. Doesn't help that my attention was pulled a lot more towards by Italiano by that point.

Yeah and just to clarify, I typed it up for myself by ISOing everyone individually and then I decided to post it because I thought that if I had been curious about who was inactive that other people would to, like I said. I feel like I answered the question so maybe van is grasping a little bit.

[Redados]

Hey Frederick, I just thought of a couple of questions for you! Mainly because you replaced in recently and I noticed you had just finished moderating a game.

1) Have you noticed anything telling about lobbies on this site where all of the scum players became among the top 5 most active players in the game on D1?

and

2) Have you noticed anything telling about lobbies on this site where all of the scum players became among the top 5 most townread players in the game on D1?

After going through all that trouble of answering one of you questions, I have got to know what was the point of these questions?

I think they were good questions for someone who had just replaced in. For me, it's easy to answer questions that people lob at me then to dig deeper unsolicited. The latter is more valuable, but I think that it was town-ish to lob you a softball to get you talking, because it's pro-town to have more talking and discussion.

Considering you didn't even use the right numbers for the generalized probability and you could have used https://www.dcode.fr/picking-probabilities or a similar selection probability calculator to easily re-calculate something at least distantly tangentially useful, I'm not pleased with this by any means.

(That generalized probability for a 7/2 setup, for the record, comes out to roughly a 27.7777...% chance of both scum being in a random given selection of five players. Which means your mistake was genuinely dangerous, potentially risking town deciding not to scum-hunt among actives.)

My vote stays on you.

I'll echo what others have said and say that I don't think it's scummy to give stats from a Normal game in a Newbie game. Newbies are scaled down Normals, right? Even if it doesn't scale perfectly, they're both preconstructed setups with an aim for balance, so there's still value in comparing them.

After re-reading van's post 217, I disagree with most of his points. His strongest points are his last two paragraphs, but I disagree with his push. However, I'm not scumreading him for it at this point.

Hey Van! Welcome to the thread.

What did you mean by "better ways to get info than voting randomly"? In this site, we usually start by throwing around random votes. In a low information stage,

what else can we do to get info

? I respect any suggestions you may propose.

I think that Van spelled it out pretty clearly. It's not the

voting

in RVS that matters, it's how people REACT to the voting. Isn't

not

voting just as powerful of a statement, given that we can see the reactions to it? The more I think about it, the more I am thinking that it's not anti-town to not vote in the RVS stage.

I don't like 41, for a couple of reasons:

1. There are many better ways to get information other than voting randomly. The statement made about "

voting is the only way for town to make any headway

" is both a stretch and an overreaction to a non-issue.

Is there some reason not to use your vote? Even if its totally random you should probably be trying to do something with it. Even if it's not the most effective, doing something with it is better than doing nothing.

Okay, it came up again. Yes, voting is good, because we need votes to lynch scum. I don't think it's fair for you to say the same about voting in RVS. We aren't going to (and shouldn't) lynch anyone in RVS. I'm not saying I agree with Frogster's decision to not vote in RVS. I'm not saying that I disagree with your decision to vote for Frogster because of it. But I think you're conflating here the importance of voting vs the importance of voting in RVS. The former being necessary and the latter being preferable.

[Redados]

I think that Van spelled it out pretty clearly. It's not the voting in RVS that matters, it's how people REACT to the voting. Isn't not voting just as powerful of a statement, given that we can see the reactions to it? The more I think about it, the more I am thinking that it's not anti-town to not vote in the RVS stage.

Well, not voting would get less info than voting. You vote for someone. Not voting votes no one.

"Not voting would get less info than voting". Not necessarily, I'm not sure why you make this out to be so black and white.
Mush is right when she says this:

See, all this talk about voting in RVS or not is circling an important, valuable point: all useful information comes from getting reactions. Everyone can agree on that so far, it is the one universal.

There are many, many ways to get reactions. And THAT is the goal.

This is exactly what I was trying to say, thank you.

If I feel like I have a very weak scumread and a whole bunch of nulls, why on earth would I just stay on my scumread early in the game and ignore everything else going on, Shelly? That's a surefire way to miseliminate. So I'll press where I feel will build my reads fastest, and sometimes that's on the other side of the board, sometimes not.

This is pretty interesting/insightful, and I feel a little called out here because this is what I am doing with Shelly right now. I don't think it's

wrong

necessarily to just keep your vote on your scumread, because that's what I'm doing right now. But I also don't think it's wrong to use your vote effectively to push and gain information. Basically I don't agree or disagree with your premise but it made me think.

[Redados]

Finally, why do you think that initial interaction with you seems like scum trying to pressure you?

2. You then said I was prone to winning arguments. I don't consider it scummy -

wanting to win arguments

isn't AI at all

I'm not sure if I would go as far as calling at AI but I believe that it is anti-town and unhelpful to

always

try and win arguments.

[Redados]

I'm going to post my first public read: I think Frogsterking is town. If he isn't town, he's unreadable. I think his playstyle edges a bit toward anti-town overall, he's focused on game-solving over scum-hunting, but scum has no reason to give town a weapon like that paper. Arguably against their win condition to do so.

I'll note this read is conditional: his anti-town behavior is consistently game-solving (which comes from a town direction) and his towniness is based on a single event that gives away a lot of cover for lurker scum. It's a strong town read, but it isn't unbreakable.

Can you again walk me through why sharing these reads doesn't help the town? How does it help the town for you to keep your reads close to your chest?

[Redados]

I'm going to post my first public read: I think Frogsterking is town. If he isn't town, he's unreadable. I think his playstyle edges a bit toward anti-town overall, he's focused on game-solving over scum-hunting, but scum has no reason to give town a weapon like that paper. Arguably against their win condition to do so.

Posting a paper is NAI. Scum appears as town-helping. I don't know why you consider that AI - scum could dig up a paper and make a compelling case as well.

I think it could be slightly AI. Posting a paper is pro-town. Yes, scum wants to act pro-town. But town has more incentive to act pro-town.

[Redados]

Rocknil, have you read any games here? I recommend picking a short complete game to read over. Inactivity is okay in certain circumstances but you have to make sure that you are making pro-town contributions by making infrequent large posts etc

[Redados]

...

• Redados - Aside from playing like he did last game, I feel Redados is town here. His questioning, logic, and posting has felt very town. He doesn’t go with the crowd and isn’t scared to disagree with anyone, SE or not. That’s someone that won’t be manipulated.

...

I want to acknowledge that

I

feel like my play is worse than last game. I am having a much harder time reading people and having conversations with people. Last game I felt like I had a better handle on what was going on, and I'm humbled by how few reads I have at this moment. I wanted to acknowledge that. But I appreciate your words.

[Redados]

Rocknil, have you read any games here? I recommend picking a short complete game to read over. Inactivity is okay in certain circumstances but you have to make sure that you are making pro-town contributions by making infrequent large posts etc

Rocknil, read Newbie 2019: https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=83700

It's short (relative to some other games) and it includes three players from this game.

[Redados]

Redados, I'm not sharing my read on you yet, but... presuming you are town, how likely do you think it is that ItalianoVD is scum buddying up to you? Genuine question. Oh, and do show your work, too, explain why and how you come to your conclusion!

If Italiano is scum then the odds of him scumbuddying up to me are maybe eighty percent.
If Italiano is not scum then the odds of him townreading me vocally are also maybe eighty percent. This is in the vein of something I said earlier in the game but I feel that the more I post, the more obvious it becomes that I am town. Last game, Italiano initially scumread me but the more I posted the more he townread me (I may be oversimplifying a little bit).

Therefore, I don't think his behavior is AI.

I also have a neutral read on Italiano right now, I haven't seen him post or interact enough to have a read on him.

[Redados]

I would be fine limming rocknil or Frederick A Campbell, but I would rather lim Shelly. I'm not sure I could see myself limming a different player at this point.

[Redados]

I would be fine limming rocknil or Frederick A Campbell, but I would rather lim Shelly. I'm not sure I could see myself limming a different player at this point.

Make your case on me. I will defend myself, because I am a townie. I want to hear your case on me.

To me, this request isn't helpful. If/when people scumread me, I won't jump down their throats to hear all of their points so that I can go through them point by point and PROVE that I'm not scum. That isn't feasible/helpful.

Again,

my preference when I'm being scumread is to keep posting, because that's how I prove that I am town.

Your case is "Oh shelly is scum because they are playing so similar to last game" which is faulty meta analysis. I can play like scum when I'm town because you've never seen a town game from me.

That may have been my initial read, but it is developing (or else I am tunneling). You have a couple of anti-town tendencies. For example, you are quite defensive. You say this is not AI. We can go back and forth whether or not it is AI, but it is anti-town. Another example is that you yell at people for scumslipping. That is also not super helpful. Maybe it could be helpful, but not in the way that you go about it. To get back to the meta read, you did this last game and you were scum.

You say that my case on you is that you are playing similar to last game and you were scum. My actual "case" on you (which is less of a case and more of a scumread) is that you are playing in a similar, anti-town way to last game and you were scum last game.

Still looking into ISOs. As of right now, I am town-reading Redados, but I'm not done with it yet.

Any reasoning behind it? What posts do you see that display a townie mindset?

It is his willingness to admit that he made a mistake.

Can't scum admit that they made a mistake? Town would push their suspect and would backtrack if they think their target is town, but won't scum do the same? Explain a little more clearly.

I wouldn't say that admitting a mistake is AI, but I think that it's pro-town for me to accept that I was wrong about something and admit it.

[Redados]

Pro-town and anti-town actions are NAI individually. But if you collect enough of them then you have got yourself a read!

[Redados]

hat may have been my initial read, but it is developing (or else I am tunneling). You have a couple of anti-town tendencies. For example, you are quite defensive. You say this is not AI. We can go back and forth whether or not it is AI, but it is anti-town. Another example is that you yell at people for scumslipping. That is also not super helpful. Maybe it could be helpful, but not in the way that you go about it. To get back to the meta read, you did this last game and you were scum.

You say that my case on you is that you are playing similar to last game and you were scum. My actual "case" on you (which is less of a case and more of a scumread) is that you are playing in a similar, anti-town way to last game and you were scum last game.

1. I am defensive because I fear being scumread, as me being scumread is a

step closer to a miseliminate.

Fearing a miseliminate is not anti town.
2. I only said the word "scumslip"

once

in this game. It was directed at Mush for not voting their biggest scumread. I misunderstood it - town often do scummy things, and town could act anti town sometimes

I will repeat this one more time. Just because I did these things as scum doesn't mean I can't do these things as town. My tendencies happen

as both alignments.

But I will reflect on my behaviour if you call it anti-town.

1. Not wanting to be eliminated is NAI. Being defensive =/= not wanting to be eliminated. Nobody wants to be eliminated. Not everyone is defensive when they get one or two votes.

[Redados]

Shelly. Unvote. Voting for yourself is anti-town if you are town.

[Redados]

It's pro-town though if you're scum though lol

[Redados]

1. Not wanting to be eliminated is NAI. Being defensive =/= not wanting to be eliminated. Nobody wants to be eliminated. Not everyone is defensive when they get one or two votes.

So you concede my second point? One single NAI behaviour = scumread?

My point was "you did x so I scumread you". Your response was "I only did x once". I don't concede your point. One action is NAI, a pattern is a read, like I explained before.

pedit: new guy has a very topical username for world events

[Redados]

Second reframe: Shelly is a high information target for elimination, MagikHorse is not. MagikHorse has done far less interacting with the majority of players, more bouncing off of them than pushing anything too hard. Since Frogster’s MagikHorse vote is in part based on scum-interpreted Shelly interactions, I would recommend her over him.

I am the scum lynchbait. OK I get it we need to eliminate someone. I have been not playing very well this game. I understand the reasons that I may come off as anti town. I will willingly sacrifice myself if you want to get the wagon starting.

Keep in mind I will flip green. I will 100% flip green. If that removes Redados and Italiano's paranoia, feel free to lynch me. If that gives us info, feel free to lynch me.

Remember to analyse my wagon - I am pretty sure scum will be on it. Remember if you eliminate me today and miseliminate tomorrow, it would soon be LimLo (assuming scum get the nightkills in between)

I understand that my death might bring good to the town. I will self vote if you wish.

You flipped at... E-3? That's a little soon. You're not that close to being limmed. I don't know if you're scum but this type of play is not helping the town.

You are not lynchbait. Rocknil is the best case for lynchbait right now, if I'm using that term right.

[Redados]

LavarManos you replaced Van, so I mostly want to hear what you think of the contents of his one post.

[Redados]

ItalianoVD has said that he won't be able to be active on weekends, so I want to hear a full list of impressions and thoughts first thing Monday!!

[Redados]

Shelly. Unvote. Voting for yourself is anti-town if you are town.

So you literally wanted the wagon to go on me... and then criticised me for voting myself?

Yes. You are my scumread. I would like the town to lim you. If you are scum, you can keep voting yourself. If you are town, you should unvote.

There was no pressure on you. You had two votes: one from me (which has been there since very early) and one from Fredrick A Campbell, who is in the lynchpool of several players. That's nothing!!! You were not looking like the likely lim! And then you roleflipped for no reason way too early and voted for yourself. Voting for yourself and rushing the lim is anti-town behavior. We still have 48 hours to lim. And again I want to stress that you were NOT the likely lim.

You flipped at... E-3? That's a little soon. You're not that close to being limmed. I don't know if you're scum but this type of play is not helping the town.

You are not lynchbait. Rocknil is the best case for lynchbait right now, if I'm using that term right.

You just said it's protown if I'm scum. Well, as nobody else was closed to being limmed I was starting the wagon on myself. We have to flip someone.

Nobody else was close to being limmed because we still have time and we're making a decision.

[Redados]

Redados, why do you want me to comment on the post of my own slot?
shellyc, I am catching up. It is quite late for me, but i will be sure to get my thoughts in before the deadline.

Uh, because your previous slot had only one post, so I want to see what you think of that one post that your slot previously made.

ItalianoVD has said that he won't be able to be active on weekends, so I want to hear a full list of impressions and thoughts first thing Monday!!

What is this pocketing / buddying of Italiano? That's just plain weird.

This is not pocketing/buddying, this is pressure. Italiano owes us more posts and more thoughts. He hasn't been very active this game and he's been slipping under the radar for it. He gave his lynchpool but hasn't been keeping up since then. But he was upfront that he is busy on weekends so I am acknowledging that.

[Redados]

I will not no-eliminate on Day 1, I will not do it. I will go so far as to say I will self-hammer before I do it. If that’s what is required to get a wagon to elimination, by god I will push myself to the gallows.

Did Shelly sheep this?

(I agree with mislim over no lim though of course, just pointing this out)

Yeah unfortunately I have been scumread in all the games I’ve played on this site. Even in the other forums I’ve been a part of I am generally looked at as more wolfy than villagery. I’ve been told it’s the way I read people and how I post. shelly, I actually only truly town read 3 players (Redados, Frogsterking and Frederick). I could I’ve been right a larger percentage of the time in my history, but I can still be wrong here. It’s the scumreading I still have a problem with. But those are simply the three players I wouldn’t be comfortable eliminating today.

I'm re-reading the thread and this stuck out to me.
I would like to point out that ItalianoVD was universally townread for the back half of day one in Newbie 2019. So I'm not sure how this looks.

[Redados]

and @redados i think what italiano said is consistent

That's fair, there is just a really nice quote that stood out to me that I remember from that game:

Greetings and salutations!

I just finished my first game and enjoyed it so much that I wanted to jump right into another.

I wanted to share my thoughts and feelings so far. You see, I've skimmed this thread a few times! (Mostly to see the strange bean pictures, but I read things too)

Italian-guy

is town - he is the most towniest person in this thread. Open, engaged, flexible, and spontaneous. It's like watching a puppy-dog play in the snow.

---

While I'm here, enjoy some lava flow.

[Redados]

I'm not getting the puppy-in-the-snow vibe this game not that it's AI, but still

[Redados]

Did Shelly sheep this?

(I agree with mislim over no lim though of course, just pointing this out)

I agree with mislim over no lim as well. So you are saying you are sheeping as well.

I agree with mislim over no lim. That's pro-town play.

You sheeped the "I will vote for myself before no lim", arguably.

[Redados]

IMO Redados actually looks more town to me now. their reaction to my self-vote seemed town; scum would latch onto that and quickhammer me.

Would you mind fleshing out this thought a little more? Your vote put yourself at E-2, and I already had a vote on you. If I were scum, the other scum vote could not have limmed you. So how is quickhammering relevant?

I'm putting this out there: we have 48 hours and some change. If we can get a Shelly elimination right now, let's dial back and start re-reading the past little bit of play and putting pressure where it needs to be for Day 2.

Caveat: UNLESS every active player can agree on a different target from Shelly when the time window is closer, Shelly MUST be the elimination.

That means we don't try and go for targets we begin to think are better. That sort of last minute cat herding is a terrible, terrible plan and will end in no-elimination.

Can we agree on that? Can we scum hunt while the clock runs down some, or do we need to start pushing for either Shelly or Rocknil as policy eliminations (since they're equal in "will be voted for gladly" numbers right now)?



I, for one, will vote Shelly to end the day with an actual elimination. I will vote just about anyone to do that, really, but I'm laying it down in writing: I will vote that wagon for an elimination. Unless there is overwhelming consensus to vote for someone else instead of Shelly just before the deadline, I will stand by that.

In the last game I played, this wasn't really an issue. In the final 48 hours or so, we got three separate people to E-1 before limming. Is this not common? We learned a lot from those interactions.

I only finished going through Redados ISO and how long it took me to do so is reminding me why I usually don't go through ISOs to ascertain alignment. I have found that typically I only remember the last thing made me conclude someone is a certain alignment instead of every little detail before that that brought me to the conclusion unless I take notes while reading through, which I didn't and on second thought should have.

ISOs are pretty time consuming, and it's hard for me to

determine alignment

based on an ISO. How I used them last game was more to get reads and remind myself of certain events that happen. It's great that you're coming at it from an analytical perspective, but I'm not sure if that's efficient or optimal.

I think shellyc is behaving rather townily because of her utter willingness to be the hang. However, some of you have said that she played similarly in your last game with her? That doesn't make me feel as good.
Right now, I have Italiano, MUSH, and shelly(tentatively) as town. I have Redados, Frogster, and Fredrick in my null pile. I am fine with hanging either MagikHorse or rocknil. MagikHorse because I think he has been mostly unoffensive in his posts and I noticed he tends to react to other people instead of bringing up new things. I think scum would take this route more often than not because it's quite safe and it's easy to get townread for it. rocknil because he isn't doing much.

I don't think less of you for not scumreading Shelly, because I do feel that it's a meta read to some extent. However, I really would say that not wanting to be hanged is NAI (Not Alignment Indicative). No one wants to be hang, no matter their alignment. If you're town, it hurts yourself to be mislimmed. If you're scum it hurts yourself to lose a member of scum.

As an aside, I suggest that you create an avatar! It makes it easy for me to follow your posts.

[Redados]

If we lim rocknil we get 0 associative tells as they have only townread Mush (which was pretty much universal anyways)

If we lim me you get an abundance of tells and analysis. I guess I will get my own wagon starting. Good luck to y'all tomorrow. My pure town energy will be in the dead thread.

Vote:shellyc

I wish I could say I saw this coming, but I didn't see this coming. Even then it feels like an emotional player caught up in frustration trying to be helpful in the wrong way?

You guys are right on Rocknil though. CLATS is not a great scenario without supporting reasons.

Shelley's actions are NAI (although arguably anti-town). She did THE same thing during day one of newbie 2019 where she appealed to emotion in the same way and it appeared very genuine.

[Redados]

That's E-1! I would feel better if we waited another 18 or 24 hours or so to lim, because we still have over a day and a half left right now for Day 1.

[Redados]

VOTE: Unvote with intent to vote again 24 hours from now at 9PM CST.

[Redados]

LavarManos, who would you like to lim today? (I suggest that you vote for them)

[Redados]

Your vote is the most powerful tool you have in this game. We must vote in order to win, because voting to eliminate scum is our win condition. As you may have seen others explain, if we don't reach the vote threshold, the day defaults to no elimination, which is a lost opportunity. This gives us one less chance to reach our win condition. This means that a miselimination is better than no elimination.

Day one is a low information day, since we don't know much yet. The scum goal on day one is to try and miseliminate, so as town the only information we have is that two of us are trying to push for a miselimination; we want to figure out who is doing that. Or if Rocknil is the scum, then he is not saying anything (which is frustrating because it hurts the town to not give information). Since the scum know this, they are trying to survive so that they can live to miseliminate on future days.

That may have gotten a little long-winded.

Tldr; don't be afraid to vote!

[Redados]

Honestly, Frederick at this point. I think Shelly is just emotional town, and everyone's right about the lack of info from a Rocknil flip.

If a lot of people think I'm town why in the world am I at what, E-2 right now? I am pretty sure scum is on this wagon.

I'm not sure what the point of this question is. 4+ people think that you're scum. Just because MagikHorse townreads you doesn't mean that you're cleared all of a sudden. That makes no sense.

Saying that whoever is trying to lynch you is scum is not really productive either.

[Redados]

I don't think that it's well-thought out or helpful, no.

[Redados]

I'm happy that Rocknil posted but I am absolutely baffled by the contrast between post 299 vs 457. I'm not sure if a scum partner wrote the post for him or if he just shaped up a little bit. Huge contrast.

RE ShellyC: MUSHSHAGANA perfectly said what I was trying to convey. Thanks Mush.

It's Monday. I would like to hear more of ItalianoVD's thoughts on current events.

Part of being a townie is being readable as town. I have tried to done this, and seems like I have not done it well. Besides, if I was scum, why would I not draw a PR and find the exact setup by

claiming a PR?

For example, imagine the setup is actually A2 (roleblocker / goon + tracker + jailkeeper). If mafia claimed TFN (town friendly neighbour) there, nobody would CC them as the setups tracker + TFN or jailkeeper + TFN make sense.

Maybe you didn't claim a power role because you role flipped at E-3 (and one of the votes was yourself??? you had two votes on you that were not you) so there was no pressure on you to flip other than perceived pressure (that Mush asked if anyone was against limming you.)

Also, maybe you didn't claim a power role because you didn't want to be vulnerable to a counter claim.

[Redados]

shellyc had failed to make coherent thoughts throughout this game. How is she suddenly able to come up with the idea of fake claiming a power role?

On Day one of Newbie 2019, one of the masons claimed at E-1 and there was a discussion about claiming a power role.

Shelly is not a newb in terms of strategy, I just think she's playing in an anti-town way. I would personally give her some more credit here.

[Redados]

shellyc had failed to make coherent thoughts throughout this game. How is she suddenly able to come up with the idea of fake claiming a power role?

On Day one of Newbie 2019, one of the masons claimed at E-1 and there was a discussion about claiming a power role.

Shelly is not a newb in terms of strategy, I just think she's playing in an anti-town way. I would personally give her some more credit here.

To follow up on this, I think that if she's scum, the odds of Shelly being scum-coached here are like 10% whereas if Rocknil is scum, the odds of him being scum-coached are like 70%.

Rocknil, thanks for posting a bit more. Would you mind posting your thoughts on the full player list?

[Redados]

I'm happy that Rocknil posted but I am absolutely baffled by the contrast between post 299 vs 457. I'm not sure if a scum partner wrote the post for him or if he just shaped up a little bit. Huge contrast.

I didn’t think I had any valuable things to say before. But given the situation, I won’t quietly go out to make scums game any easier.

By the way, I hope that you are now aware that your level of inactivity is frankly unacceptable. We need information on all of the players to making voting and limming decisions. If you are town, it would be really sad to waste a policy lynch on you because you aren't posting.

Get in here, and give some more thoughts and reactions!

[Redados]

It's Monday. I would like to hear more of ItalianoVD's thoughts on current events.

You know you don’t have to keep prompting me to post my thoughts. I will and do.

Maybe it's all in my head but I feel like you've been much less active this game than last.

Not alignment indicative of course because real life stuff comes up and is more important. But I keep forgetting that you're even in the game.

[Redados]

Fair enough. Like I said things have cleared up so I should be able to be more active, less so on the weekends. Ask me anything.

I'm frustrated with myself that I can't get any sort of read on you.

What are your thoughts on Fredrick A Campbell?

[Redados]

I'm curious what others have to say because to me it looks like you reacted the way you did not because of the quantity of votes but because you had some certainty they were coming from a town direction.

This is a SUPER interesting observation that I definitely missed the first time around. This may have been a slip, but I haven't really bought into the idea of townslipping and scumslipping at this point.

If you guys that are on now (redadados and italiono) want to BW rocknil instead I'll hop on it.

I am not willing to do this right now. My scumpool at this point is ShellyC and Rocknil. Shelly because I am scumreading her and Rocknil as a policy lim. I would rather lim Shelly than Rocknil. Shelly is at E-2 and will go to E-1 when I re-vote her at 9pm tonight. If someone else votes for her before then then I'll try to give intent to hammer before doing so.

[Redados]

I said I would put Shelly at E-1 at 9PM CST. It is now 8PM CST and I am now ready to put Shelly at E-1.

E-1: VOTE: ShellyC

[Redados]

Mush, I don't have a read on you.

[Redados]

Mush, I don't have a read on you.

What are your thoughts then?

I'm hoping that more thoughts come to me as the game continues.

[Redados]

We're five hours from no elimination. Could someone hammer or Shelly or put Fredrick A Campbell to E-1 so that I can hammer him? I'm getting a bit worried about no-elimination here.

[Redados]

Frederick A Campbell, you're going to bed without voting?? You haven't voted!!

[Redados]

Italiano, I'm on. Want to switch to Fredrick A Campbell so we dodge no elim?

[Redados]

I don't understand why he didn't hammer!!

[Redados]

We are out of time to discuss and Fredrick should know that he is the lim target if we don't lim Shelly.
LavarManos, *I* think that you should vote Shelly. But you should vote for Shelly or Fredrick at the very least. No elimination is bad for the town and not an option at this point.

[Redados]

You have to move your vote off MagikHorse now cause it's not doing anything there.

[Redados]

That was pretty sloppy play on Fredrick's part. Pretty sloppy.

[Redados]

No need to apologize, we got the lim.

[Redados]

Why did Fredrick not vote???? Was he afraid to hammer because he knew that ShellyC was town? Or am I overthinking it?

VOTE: Fredrick A Campbell

[Redados]

I think he couldn't be around deadline so he wanted us to discuss more. Just my thought and he can give a better answer if I'm wrong.

He posted five hours from the deadline, so I

hope

that wasn't a factor cause that cut it real close. Honestly I'm super confused by that move if he's town because he was the alternative wagon to Shelly. He didn't even start another wagon, he just straight up didn't vote!

[Redados]

I won't be around at the last hour before the deadline. Unless you guys are fine for a hammer in six hours or less than six hours before deadline, I can't place the hammer.

This seems to be his explanation.

That makes it a little bit better but I'm still not thrilled.

Redados, do you have a better read on Italiano now?

No.

[Redados]

I am still townreading Italiano and I still townread you, so I am thinking we can try to find the scumteam in the remaining pool of four players based on how they have interacted. I do not think rocknil is scum with Fredrick because there is no need to open up the day with a vote on his scumbuddy. I also do not like how rocknil chose to ignore my vote on him.

I'm a little apprehensive about being townread right now. I post in a pretty town-like manner, but I did just lead the town to a mislynch so I'm a little concerned that I'm being pocketed here.

• LavarManos

[Redados]

What makes you think Frogsterking could be scum, because I don’t think so at all.

Don't forget, he didn't vote in RVS /s

[Redados]

As far as I was concerned, my vote didn't matter. The person we were going to execute was going to be shellyc and I was convinced by MUSHSHAGANA that it was not a good idea to suggest an alternative execution, which, as it happens I didn't have. Although my scumread on shellyc waned later, I still thought it was not a good idea to make that public, for I had no alternative execution.

Your vote

did

matter. You had the potential to hammer. We could have easily switched our vote for you if we had not found someone who would hammer. I think we were pretty close to that happening.

[Redados]

What makes you think Frogsterking could be scum, because I don’t think so at all.

Don't forget, he didn't vote in RVS /s

Yeah that’s true, but did we ever solidify that that was alignment indicative?

"/s" stands for sarcasm.

I'm personally townreading Frogsterking but I'm not sure if that's because he is townreading me. So I'm trying to acknowledge that.

[Redados]

As far as I was concerned, my vote didn't matter. The person we were going to execute was going to be shellyc and I was convinced by MUSHSHAGANA that it was not a good idea to suggest an alternative execution, which, as it happens I didn't have. Although my scumread on shellyc waned later, I still thought it was not a good idea to make that public, for I had no alternative execution.

As for why I didn't hammer shellyc, I trusted MUSHSHAGANA to do it, as she said she would switch her vote over anytime but wanted to let others put their thoughts out.

What is YOUR thought on everyone’s scumread of you. At the moment the only thing I have on you is not voting and well that’s practically nothing.

To clarify, this is all I have right now as well.

Mush was onto Frogsterking and Fredrick A Campbell. And looking back I think Fredrick A Campbell was working hard to blend in. I find it more scummy than others.

VOTE: Fredrick A Campbell

What are your plans for Day 2 in terms of activity?

Also just so everyone is clear, Fredrick is at E-2 right now.

[Redados]

I notice a lot of players in this game do this and it still doesn’t make sense to me. I don’t think I ever will. How does this help the town?

It tends to happen as the deadline gets closer. I didn't really scumread either one of shellyc or Fredrick, but deadline called...

In this instance it made sense, but lots of players vote for people they townread and don’t vote for people they scumread. I’m still trying to understand if there is true strategy behind that.

Yeah, it made sense here because we were trying to avoid a no-lim.

[Redados]

Three other things I thought of is that you seem like you want to have an active voice in the town ever since you replaced in and night killing Mush is something enabling you to do that now.

Are you saying that wanting to have an active voice in the town is AI? He can't control what happened before he replaced in.

I guess I'm curious what everyone else has to say about the night kill?

I'm not sure I can wrap my head around reasons for night kills beyond trying to kill people who won't get limmed during the day. It gets pretty WIFOM. If I were to pick the last person to get limmed during the day, it would have been Mush. From that logic, Mush was the best night kill.

[Redados]

Basically killing Mush simplifies the game which is only good for scum if they are being townread by everyone and I don't believe that's the case here. It's possible, it just seems less likely.

I think you make good arguments and are good at seeming townie but selecting a night kill requires game sense and I don't know if you have that.

I am fairly townread, so by your argument, MUSH would be a great kill for me due to her variability. Then, why are you arguing that she is an unoptimal kill for me?

Frogsterking thinks I was the optimal kill.

[Redados]

I'm really curious to hear from MagikHorse's replacement slot, I think getting an outsider's perspective on D1 will help.

What do you mean by "MagikHorse's replacement slot"?

Seeking replacement for MagikHorse.

[Redados]

To be more specific I don't think either Frederick or Magik would have killed Mush if they were scum I think both would have killed Redados and between the newbie slots alone you're a lot more likely even though you and the other replacement seemed townie in your initial posts.

Are you trying to get me nightkilled? If so, please stop.

[Redados]

Are you trying to get me nightkilled? If so, please stop.

I don't like this post. Seems a little LAMIST.

I know cryptography isn’t allowed so I am decoding it for everyone. I am breadcrumbing my alignment:

Look at the first letter of every sentence
At Me
Me Is So Town
I am town
Seriously Guys
Town I am town

[Redados]

I have no read on Italiano but at this point I think I might cross my fingers and just hope he's town the same way I hope you are town.

[Redados]

I'm liking Casey. I am townreading her.

I've been thinking about it, and I think that we should policy-lim Rocknil for inactivity. Whether he is town or scum, he is going to make it to a lim-lo situation and that seems unacceptable to me.

[Redados]

I am fine with that.
rocknil said he was going to look for the scum team though, so I think we should at least give him that chance to get his thoughts out in the case he is town. In fact, if he does flip town, I will be questioning my townreads on you and Italiano.
Casey seems fine.

Who is the mafia?

No idea! Unfortunately, I am not a mind reader and my scumread game is weak af. I'll have to trust my instinct.

[Redados]

VOTE: Unvote

Consider this a ghost vote on Rocknil. Not putting him to E-1 yet because we still have time left in the day.

[Redados]

Who is the mafia?

No idea! Unfortunately, I am not a mind reader and my scumread game is weak af. I'll have to trust my instinct.

Please post a full reads list in the following format:

"Town
--
Person 1
Person 2
Person 3
--
Scum"

With Person 1 being the towniest and Person 3 being the scummiest. Please include the entire playerlist that isn't yourself. Please give us more to work with!

[Redados]

Casey, are you a teacher?

[Redados]

It's okay to be scumread, LavarManos. Everyone will get scumread at some point, and Casey is still catching up on the game. Her thoughts might evolve by the time that she catches up to the present hour. No one is trying to hang you right now; Frogsterking has voted for you, and Casey is scumreading you. This is not by any means the end of the world. In

my

opinion, you are not the best lim for today at this point.

Don't try and argue your way out of being scumread. Just keep posting. The more you post, the more that your true character will shine through.

[Redados]

Ok, I suppose I will ignore Casey's scumread on me then. I do think I have shown attempts to solve.

I'm not even sure if ignore is the best word to use. Acknowledge it, take it on the chin, and carry on!

[Redados]

What are the pros and cons of a policy lynch? Like I said, I just can't imagine rocknil in a LimLo situation. That sounds awful. I would like to make that not possible by limming him today.

[Redados]

VOTE: Frogsterking

Now I remember why I was scumreading Frogsterking.

Care to elaborate?

[Redados]

@Mod, will there be an extension for Rocknil's replacement to catch up?

[Redados]

We have a little over 24 hours left, so I think it's time to get our limpools together. I would prefer to lim Fredrick A Campbell or Rocknil today. Where is everyone else at?

[Redados]

Intent to hammer Rocknil, which will end the day.

[Redados]

I think hammering Rocknil today is risky, as I think there is both a high chance of both Rocknil-Frederick and Lavar-Frederick pair, and in the case of Lavar-Frederick they will be able to night kill a player that town reads me and force a majority off Casey's vote in D3.

Eh, I feel like Lavar is town.

VOTE: Rocknil

[Redados]

Nahdia you can release my personal thread too!

[Redados]

Redados, sorry for killing you. You were the towniest townie alive when I replaced in. Thanks for never questioning me at all. I was afraid of you the most!!

No hard feelings lol, I felt like the towniest townie which was tearing me up inside given my role! I was trying to lay low on day two for this reason

It's very funny that you say that because I had Magikhorse as kind of scummy at the end of day one, but if you look at my personal thread you will see that I had you as my TOP townread at the end of day two! You certainly had me fooled, well played!