Newbie 2025 | Lilies | Game Over

[LavarManos]

Hi everyone!
I will be rereading as quick as I can, and it seems like the deadline is coming up soon. Are there any immediate questions for me?

[LavarManos]

Redados, why do you want me to comment on the post of my own slot?
shellyc, I am catching up. It is quite late for me, but i will be sure to get my thoughts in before the deadline.

[LavarManos]

My first thought is that I like the way how Tatsuya Kaname was pretty serious in trying to declutter the thread. I think scum would like to keep people in the joking mood, and I think I am townreading him.
I also do think MUSHSHAGANA(nickname?) is slightly townie just for being so bold and posting like that.
Redados seems quite eager, but I do not know if it is alignment indicative yet.

[LavarManos]

If I have to flip to prove you right I will willingly champion my own wagon.

This is interesting! Isn't this what shelly did recently?

[LavarManos]

I think I like ItalianoVD's early push on shellyc. I have felt similarly in certain games where I force myself to think someone else is scum despite the evidence not being too great. I appreciate him being open about scumreading shellyc mainly because of ego, and I think the whole thought process comes from a town player.

[LavarManos]

I think shellyc is behaving rather townily because of her utter willingness to be the hang. However, some of you have said that she played similarly in your last game with her? That doesn't make me feel as good.
Right now, I have Italiano, MUSH, and shelly(tentatively) as town. I have Redados, Frogster, and Fredrick in my null pile. I am fine with hanging either MagikHorse or rocknil. MagikHorse because I think he has been mostly unoffensive in his posts and I noticed he tends to react to other people instead of bringing up new things. I think scum would take this route more often than not because it's quite safe and it's easy to get townread for it. rocknil because he isn't doing much.

[LavarManos]

I am almost caught up, and I have a few more pages to go. Before I finish the read...

Even then, if my plan was to be safe why risk claiming the Shelly townread when most people at the time were scumreading her?

This is true, but I feel like it is easier to townread a townie who is being scumread than to scumread a townie who is being townread as scum.
Your point about why you haven't been able to do more real time stuff is fair, so I guess I'm leaning towards rocknil then.

[LavarManos]

I think Redados unvoting is townie because he could have easily kept his vote on shellyc if she is town.
I am still not completely understanding why she is our primary target for elimination. I think her posts have been fine this game.

[LavarManos]

To be frank, I am not sure and I do not feel confident voting in anyone. My catchup was quite a skim, so I feel like I may be missing out on some important details. I'm not sure I believe in a shellyc elimination though. Perhaps rocknil or Fredrick?

[LavarManos]

I think Fredrick has been falling under the radar. He does not seem to be doing much and does not seem to be concerned with the upcoming deadline and who he wants to hang. I know I enjoyed his predecessor's posts, but I do not like Fredrick's apathy.
I think I will vote for him or rocknil today. It seems like shellyc is a strong player, so she could potentially be fooling me, but I prefer rationale to paranoia.

[LavarManos]

I was townreading MUSH because she entered the thread in a really natural and bold way. I suppose this could be fakeable, but I feel like she is also playing rather boldly and that also contributed to my townlean. Since some of you guys don't think so, can you explain your read on her to me?
Also, what is your read on Fredrick?

[LavarManos]

I will be around later before the deadline, so I will be able to hammer her (although it is not my first choice).
Redados is now a townread for me though. He also seems very natural and at-home. I know if I was scum, I would not be like him!

[LavarManos]

I am here. Should I hammer shelly?
I think Fredrick did not vote because he wanted to give us more time to discuss. I still think Fredrick is pretty suspicious.

[LavarManos]

VOTE: shellyc

[LavarManos]

I feel honored
Sorry shellyc! I think rocknil's vote felt a little forced, so that's where I'm going to start my day. Frederick had some redeeming qualities.
VOTE: rocknil

[LavarManos]

I think he couldn't be around deadline so he wanted us to discuss more. Just my thought and he can give a better answer if I'm wrong.

[LavarManos]

I won't be around at the last hour before the deadline. Unless you guys are fine for a hammer in six hours or less than six hours before deadline, I can't place the hammer.

This seems to be his explanation.
Redados, do you have a better read on Italiano now?

[LavarManos]

I am still townreading Italiano and I still townread you, so I am thinking we can try to find the scumteam in the remaining pool of four players based on how they have interacted. I do not think rocknil is scum with Fredrick because there is no need to open up the day with a vote on his scumbuddy. I also do not like how rocknil chose to ignore my vote on him.

[LavarManos]

Assuming Italiano is town, we have that the possible scum teams are
rocknil-Fredrick
rocknil-Frogster
rocknil-Magik Horse
Fredrick-Frogster
Fredrick-Magik Horse
Frogester-Magik Horse
I have already explained why I don't think rocknil and Fredrick are aligned, so I will be looking at the remaining 5 hypothetical teams. This assumes that Italiano is town which is dangerous, but I am still believing in it right now.

[LavarManos]

Assuming Italiano is town, we have that the possible scum teams are
rocknil-Fredrick
rocknil-Frogster
rocknil-Magik Horse
Fredrick-Frogster
Fredrick-Magik Horse
Frogester-Magik Horse
I have already explained why I don't think rocknil and Fredrick are aligned, so I will be looking at the remaining 5 hypothetical teams. This assumes that Italiano is town which is dangerous, but I am still believing in it right now.

[LavarManos]

@Italiano I thought you admitting that ego was driving your early push of shellyc was townie. I can sorta relate to that feeling.
One of my fears is being wrong, so sometimes I might vote someone even if I don't strongly believe that they are scum. I need to work on that.
Redados, I just think that you are town because of how eager and natural you sounded. You can think I'm pocketing you, but that is just how I feel
I will look at Frogsterking. He just seemed helpful in general, but I didn't particularly townread him. I think we can do this, and I'm still confident in rocknil being scum. Perhaps with Frogster or Magik Horse. I'm not think Fred is that scummy right now!

[LavarManos]

Why are you voting rocknil instead of me though and why do you think we are scum together? Do you really think I would choose to attack him, but have him completely ignore my presence?

[LavarManos]

Answer my question

[LavarManos]

That literally doesn't explain why you find me scummy?

[LavarManos]

Watergun missed!

I think most newbies queued up for this game because they wanted to find scum

This is fair.

your slot replaced through until the most competitive personality joined (you).

Don't you think shellyc was more competitive? Also, why do you think that is alignment indicative?

To be more specific I don't think either Frederick or Magik would have killed Mush if they were scum I think both would have killed Redados and between the newbie slots alone you're a lot more likely even though you and the other replacement seemed townie in your initial posts.

I don't follow this at all. MUSH suspected you, Fredrick, and rocknil to some extent, so why are you saying they wouldn't have incentive to kill her and instead kill Redados? This seems like quite a stretch, and you may even trying to be

intentionally

twisting the narrative. I do not know yet.

The fact you're asking for an explanation instead of accusing me of being scummy (as though you're more worried that I cheated than if I really know if you're scum or not) is another tick in the scum direction from my point of view.

I'm trying to see your thought process to see if how you arrived at this rocknil/me scumteam is a reasonable vs malicious.

I also think you were most active at the beginning of the daystart because you were the one to hammer the night action.

[LavarManos]

I notice a lot of players in this game do this and it still doesn’t make sense to me. I don’t think I ever will. How does this help the town?

It tends to happen as the deadline gets closer. I didn't really scumread either one of shellyc or Fredrick, but deadline called...

[LavarManos]

Oh well that is what I generally do.
I know some players who will fight the wagon until the end if one of their townreads was being wagoned.
I'm going to try to keep looking at the interactions. I do like Italiano's tone and his denial of being townread was townie for me. I'm still townreading Redados too.
Another scumteam I do not find likely would be Fredrick and Frogsterking. I don't think that interaction earlier today looks fake.
Perhaps the scumteam is (Frogster, rocknil)? I am not sure.

[LavarManos]

Basically killing Mush simplifies the game which is only good for scum if they are being townread by everyone and I don't believe that's the case here. It's possible, it just seems less likely.

I think you make good arguments and are good at seeming townie but selecting a night kill requires game sense and I don't know if you have that.

I am fairly townread, so by your argument, MUSH would be a great kill for me due to her variability. Then, why are you arguing that she is an unoptimal kill for me?

[LavarManos]

Yeah. I could see you bussing here. I mean what else would you really do? I feel like you need to play that way now in this gamestate or suffer a slow death.

Why would I need to bus him when I am already fairly townread? That doesn't make the most sense to me.

[LavarManos]

Are you trying to get me nightkilled? If so, please stop.

I don't like this post. Seems a little LAMIST.

[LavarManos]

Ok then
Italiano? Was Redados similarly LAMIST in 2019? Redados, I know I'm asking you a lot about this, but has your read on Italiano developed? I want to know if my townread on him is too gratuitous.

[LavarManos]

I am fine with that.
rocknil said he was going to look for the scum team though, so I think we should at least give him that chance to get his thoughts out in the case he is town. In fact, if he does flip town, I will be questioning my townreads on you and Italiano.
Casey seems fine.

[LavarManos]

LavarManos - Absolutely 100% disappointing and gross posts.

You are not going to be able to hang me with no elaboration on those reasons. If you truly believe I am scum and aren't just throwing shade, please explain to the rest of us

why

I had disappointing and gross posts. Also, I think my posts being disappointing is to be somewhat expected, and I don't think "disappointing" is scummy in general.

[LavarManos]

Ok, I suppose I will ignore Casey's scumread on me then. I do think I have shown attempts to solve.

[LavarManos]

I'm here guys. Sorry about my absence. I still say rocknil is the best hang, but we'll have to see what his replacement has to say. I'll read what I missed sometime later today.

[LavarManos]

Tracker follows the one who hammers the night action.

What does this mean?

I am not scum. Also, Redados sent me his Friendly Neighbor message N1.
I will reconsider my reads, but the scumteam might just be Casey and Fred? Idk

[LavarManos]

Lavar did you consider not outting that Redados visited you N1.

Why would I do that? I did allude to it in my first post of the day 2 here.

I feel honored

What do you mean by the Tracker follows the one who hammers the night action? yes, I do need to reconsider my townread on Italiano since it is LYLO.

[LavarManos]

Lavar I'm going to need you to do some amateur detective work or this day is going to be super painful for me.

Ok, what do you want? I do not know how to VCA either.

[LavarManos]

Sorry, I'm not really sure. I'll try to get back to you later.

[LavarManos]

Sorry, I'm not really sure. I'll try to get back to you later.

So you didn’t have any type of semi read on the slot?

I think Casey has been townie, but it is LYLO. A member of the mafia could be townie, so that alone does not prevent my vote from going there.
If Casey is town, then you are scum. I would like to believe that my townread on you is correct.

[LavarManos]

If Redados used his ability on you N1 like you said he did then why would you throw shade out there like that? I’m not liking it.

I was trying to not make it too obvious to the mafia that he had Friendly Neighbored me.

[LavarManos]

I am somewhat experienced, but quite busy recently.
Forgive me for my lackluster play. I do not see much changing irl, so *shrug*
Also, I do think it would be best if you voted first.

[LavarManos]

That's what I meant.

[LavarManos]

I think I would just try to active lurk and throw in the occasional thought or two. Nothing much.

[LavarManos]

Not yet

[LavarManos]

I just did

[LavarManos]

i am not sure how to answer that? I think I would be ok with anything for the most part.
I guess I would be mad if they claimed to be scum and got themselves hanged. But that is gamethrowing and you don't really see that much.

[LavarManos]

Sorry, I do not think I have any new ideas.
Frogster, feel free to post your VCA whenever. Time is running out.

[LavarManos]

Some might even find it a little suspicious that you are townreading me so much . . .

[LavarManos]

Italiano visited Redados N2

[LavarManos]

I'll try to partner hunt, but considering my reasons for townreading Italiano were fallacious, I might not be the most reliable.
Between Fred and Casey huh

[LavarManos]

And I'm guessing I haven't?
Well we always elim Italiano today unless you want to go risky.
pedit: oh true, mafia can't multitask?

[LavarManos]

oh they can do more than one action
I wonder what you receive if Italiano is rolecop and visited two people.

[LavarManos]

My present opinion is that LavarManos is ItalianoVD's partner.

I don't blame you for that, but I am not.

[LavarManos]

Depends on what happens if a tracker tracks a mafia who preformed both the kill and the rolecop. Do you happen to know what happens?

[LavarManos]

Thanks.
I am a little confused because Italiano only performed one action this night. This implies he is the goon. Why would the scumteam not just have the rolecop perform both a rolecop and kill? This seems like a much safer method as any motion at this point is scum, and info about PR is crucial.
BW is bandwagon

[LavarManos]

Frederick do you know if multi-action is enabled in the newbie setup?

Yes, scum can perform multiple tasks.
I am a little confused right now. I don't see why Fredrick is cleared.

[LavarManos]

So my real reports were that Fred visited no one N1 and Italiano visited Redados N2

I was coming round to townreading ItalianoVD again, actually.

Normally, I would think scum doesn't say stuff like this regarding their partner and would be more eager to bus. However, Fred strikes me as a somewhat unconventional player. Any scumgames I can skim over?

[LavarManos]

I guess he's probably clear anyway because it's better for one scum to do the kill and the other to investigate so when the tracker outs them they can claim they're the other pr.

Oh wait this is true because they were killing Redados that night, so it would make sense to just have one member perform both tasks. Since they killed Redados, any motion detected would be fatal, so they would want to keep motion to a minimum?

[LavarManos]

ok, I am fine with voting Casey soon. I believe LYLO with her will be much more annoying in f3 rather than right now.

[LavarManos]

So, what do you think about Casey, LavarManos?

I think she is the last scum, but it is fair play to let her say some things in her defense first.

ok, I am fine with voting Casey soon. I believe LYLO with her will be much more annoying in f3 rather than right now.

Ok, why do you say so?

She seems like a capable player who could convince Fred as scum.

[LavarManos]

Casey as scum does not make sense given how much she questioned the scumread on you.

She could be trying to pocket me right.

[LavarManos]

IM TOWN UNVOTE RIGHT NOW

[LavarManos]

VOTE: Italiano
I believe Casey to be the last scum, but voting Italiano is the right move given the time of day left. In addition, Italiano flipping goon should semi-clear Fred.
Vote for fast night thanks.

[LavarManos]

Frogster please.

[LavarManos]

I don’t know what to say because your reasons seem pretty good. I was townreading Italiano until LYLO where I said I was going to reconsider.

[LavarManos]

I don’t know what to say because your reasons seem pretty good. I was townreading Italiano until LYLO where I said I was going to reconsider.

Did you notice the similarities I posted between you and Italiano?

Yeah

[LavarManos]

Wow, I thought this day would’ve been over. I guess I should unvote myself.

No, I think you have been hammered

[LavarManos]

Casey, if you are town, are you okay with losing this game to a rolecop Fredrick who did not perform an action N1?

[LavarManos]

Pretty confident in Casey scum, but it would be bad play not to let her say anything wrt you potentially being scum. That said, I'll probably vote her in around 12 hours unless she suddenly convinces me in a scum Fred world.

[LavarManos]

I have arrived at a verdict.

Can you take me through your thought process?

[LavarManos]

Well...
only if you think I'm scum. If you think Casey is scum, then do as you wish.

[LavarManos]

Consider it from my perspective, I think you are town which means that Casey is scum. This means I win if we eliminate Casey today. If you think she is scum, great. I don't have to do anything. However, if you think I am scum, then I will have to talk you out of that.
That is why town Lavar would say that.
Why do you think MagikHorse wasn't distancing from Italiano? Was there anything in the quotes that you found difficult for two scum to fake?

[LavarManos]

Oh, another reason that I just remembered is how little you posted in the previous day phase as though you had no ideas to share.

I didn't really feel too engaged with the game, and I was somewhat busy.

[LavarManos]

Just how lengthy it was.

Not a good reason.

[LavarManos]

If he legit didn't take an action and just happened to be tracked, combined with all the daytime interactions, and he's still mafia? Then sure. I won't feel bad about losing to that.

Ok. VOTE: Casey.

You could, y'know, build a case of you actually feel that way. Instead you say in the post above that you're only interested in protecting your own butt.

If I believe Fred to be town and he believes you to be scum, why do I need to put in effort to convince him that you are scum? I'm not sure why both of you seem to think it's scummy that I said that.

It's like he's trying to get both Fred and I away from him, and onto each other. To him it doesn't matter which, as long as one of us votes the other.

Not really. I was open to the possibility of scum!Fred, but I decided I was fine with taking the loss if he was. I wanted to make sure you were too as that is the fair play to make.

This post makes very little sense if Casey is in a team with ItalianoVD.

I don't see what you seem to be seeing.

[LavarManos]

Fred, please recall that Lavar has been fencesitty, avoided controversy, said he's playing his scumgame.

None of these are true. I have not been fencesitty at all, and it is just that I haven't felt like I had much or knew enough to say things at certain points in the game. This led to me not doing much D2-D3, but I clearly was and am putting in (some) work D1 and today. I have not played scum yet, so I was only theorizing what my scumgame would look like. In fact, I feel like there would have been some differences. For one, I would have shied away from those interactions with Fred and Frogster. I never explicitly said that I was playing to my scumgame. After all, that would be foolish as either alignment.

There's a time for "too scummy to be maf" and this isn't it.

I haven't really been scummy this game.

His D2 he put in effort and looked like he was going to be a good townie but then decided it was too hard and hasn't done anything since.

Didn't I say that I was busy? I don't really think what I was doing D2 was hard to continue anyways.

Remember that Italiano and Lavar have zero meaningful interactions.

So what? This is completely WIFOM.

When confronted about this, they both were like "yeah whatever eff off."

I don't remember being asked about this. Must have just been Italiano.

This should be an easy-peasy call.

It should!

Let's get on the same wavelength. What has you conflicted?

Yeah, I'm wondering what made you change your mind too.

[LavarManos]

I was just messing around. Let's end this.

VOTE: LavarManos

I was town.
Don't really blame you though. Casey put in work(unless you were scum).
Good game!

[LavarManos]

Yeah, well I was glad to have one scum correct. Unfortunate that I townread Italiano so hard.
They did a good job.

[LavarManos]

Nahdia you can release my personal thread too!

I'd like to check out Redados's personal thread too