Newbie 2027 | Doggos | Town Win

[Redados]

Hi guys. I am a 100% caught up as of right now. Can you hold off on hammering until I can dump all of my thoughts I've been compiling? But holy crap these last two pages. Holy crap. Give me like an hour to dump a bunch of posts in chronological order.

[Redados]

an hour? dude u can expect no one to post in an hour...

What? no, just no one hammer until I dump all my thoughts please. People can continue to post lol

[Redados]

I shot myself once after reading that name ngl

/\/\@f1@9001\1554yvv|-|A+

Non-voting post. Interesting. Sceptorus,

WH

y do you elect not to st

A

rt off by vo

T

ing during RVS?

/\/\@f1@ = Mafia
9001\15 = goons
54y = say
vv|-|A+ = what
found one scum, now you can claim who your partner is to make this quicker.
VOTE: shellyc

(yeah i know this wasnt the best execution for this joke but I WAS GETTING IMPATIENT DAMNIT)

This borders on cryptography and I don't like it. I know this is my slot, so shame on me/my slot.

Shelly's tone just feels off to me.
Possibly the cheesiest scumtell is shelly's posts just feel really stilted and comma punctuation anal. Like trying not to put a letter wrong. Feels like scum being careful and calculating. I get that it may just be player posting style but I dont think so.

it’s just player posting style. Shelly is really easy to scumread.

The multiple Echovision votes for Shelly were funny. That made me chuckle.

Hey now, I'm trying to solve here, and shelly just agreeing with me on most posts is why I don't townread them yet

I’m kind of annoyed that you’re trying to solve this few pages into the game.

i do it when catching up too, it's just easier for me to get my thoughts right off as i read something

just like this

I agree with this.

^ This. I skimmed before and that's was what stood out the most. But, like echo said, he didn't tell you how to vote yet and echo has been towm lean throughout so it's probably nothing, I just wanted to call him out on it. In hindsight I probably shouldn't have called him out so scum echo would think he's safe to keep pocketing noraa but it's whatever, I'm still a newbie too.

I think most of us agree that 720's accusation logic doesn't make much sense, but the question now is that if it was just made up stuff to push a scum!720 narrative of me and shellyc being the scumteam, and wanting to wagon us, or was it genuinely a newbie town!720 thought process?

May be a little too early to call, but a 720 and shelly team doesn't seem feasible but I could see them both as townies. So if 720 flips scum I think shellyc is town, and vice versa.

You're trying too hard to solve and we're only like ten pages in. I don't like this.

[Redados]

What is crumbing? also what's (self)meta? I can't find definitions for these in the abbreviations wiki doc

Crumbing is when you say stuff that you can point back to prove your point. Like if on Day One I say "hey, neighbor" and then on day four I quote it and say, see, I was crumbing the role Town Friendly Neighbor

[Redados]

What is crumbing? also what's (self)meta? I can't find definitions for these in the abbreviations wiki doc

Self-meta is when you say, "this is how I act when I am town. When I am scum I do

x

instead. Here, you can read my scumgame and my towngame to prove it."

[Redados]

What is crumbing? also what's (self)meta? I can't find definitions for these in the abbreviations wiki doc

Crumbing is when you say stuff that you can point back to prove your point. Like if on Day One I say "hey, neighbor" and then on day four I quote it and say, see, I was crumbing the role Town Friendly Neighbor

that's sounds stupid af

sometimes you need it to make people believe you. it's risky though because if mafia catches on they'll just nightkill you. It's usually more subtle than that too, I was just giving an example.

It's not a scumtell

[Redados]

You're sheeping me again. The earlier posts I made were completely focused on calling out 72offsuit for poor logic, and now you sheep me that their logic doesn't make sense...

Shelly calling out sheeping lmao

you're treating it like you're the king of the world and everything that goes against you is wrong which is not true

Shelly acting like this is NAI, unfortunately.

Echo why do you want people to think ur scum? That seems like a townie thing to do but then at the same time a scum might do that to make themselves seem like a townie. Idk have mixed feelings now.

because i haven't done anything to appear as townie so why should people town read me...

imo i've done some on the fence stuff, no reason for people to not look into my slot more

You're basically an innocent child at this point, stop fighting it

hahahhaha it's a shame we have to lim Plusjoy because he is hilarious

and if everyone universally town reads me that means i'm dead tonight and i wanna play damnit i waited in queue for a week

I don't understand how this logic works...

the way I see it is that in a theoretically perfect world, players are read on a spectrum from town to scum. Each day, the scummiest player gets limmed. Each night, the towniest player gets killed. The mid-range players survive.

If scum get limmed, that really hurts their win condition. If townies get limmed, that really hurts their win condition. If townies get nightkilled, that doesn’t hurt their win condition as much as a mislim, because *someone* has to get nightkilled and they’ll always be a townie. So Echovision you’ve made your point, now drop it. Edit: PlusJOYED explained in post 278. And Echovision explained in post 280.

I feel like no ones gonna get eliminated first day tho right? Like nothings certain so if someone dies day 1, that's just stupid

a mislim is better than a no lim, because day lims are our only way to kill scum. Otherwise, like Shelly said in 298 is true: we’re giving scum a free kill.

[Redados]

@mod can we get a vote count please? I don't want to make that mistake again.

it’s not the mod’s fault if you don’t know what the votecount it. Frequent votecounts are a luxury and a courtesy. If you’re going to vote someone like that, go back to the last votecount and do your due diligence.

Regardless of either shelly gaslighting me or me being freaking crazy apparently, I'm a lil disappointed that froster backed off. 72o looked pretty scummy to me for reasons stated, so I wanted to put pressure on them to see their reaction. I'm not looking to quickhammer anyone here yet, as I stated from the begining. I just want to hunt scum and I feel like I'm being misconstrued here.

My prior readlist still stands.

This is more town but I still stand by my statement that plusjoy is sheeping

no u

LOL

Nikahang has been prodded

VOTE: ShellNyc

nice

Nikahang has been prodded

VOTE: ShellNyc

VOTE: ShellYc

well this looks familiar

also dang these emojis r kinda cute

I respectfully disagree

wait so lemme get this right day 1 there mostly likely wi be two dead in one day if both kills happen? If so nuuuu;( not cool not cool

Yep, that’s how it works! People have to die for the mafia to all get killed. It’s the name of the game.

Posting is good but that's an easy thing for scum to do to seem townie. I'm still having paranoia about PlusJoy and Noraa

Disagree. If they are scum lurking, they are probably newbies who have no idea of what to say and are afraid of being SR. If they start panicking that will reinforce this idea. So it's good to SR them right now so we can get info out of them no matter what their alignment is.

I'd imagine an apathetic townie doubling down on the lurk or put some effort into looking town.

i disagree

for newbie games, playing scum is fun and that's what you

want to do

. you get excited and all you think about is the game, so you come on and check constantly and play and have fun

i feel like it's semi-rare to see noob scum lurking, let alone 2

Is this AI? I haven’t been scum yet but what you describe is also how I have felt as noob!town.

alright well look i can't just type 349 up then

not

steal page top...

also since i have page top i can publicly say nika stop playing the game like an ass and do something please. you signed up and committed to this, don't ruin it for everybody else. if you've got stuff going on, that's a different thing but v/la's and stuff exist for a reason. if you're just not feelin the game or don't want to contribute, there are other things that you can do than not post, not read, and when you do post, just post non-content fillers so that you don't get replaced out.

p-edit fuck you guys you took my page top assholes

it’s their fault if you miss the pagetop. Pagetops are a luxury and a courtesy. If you’re going to try to get a pagetop, post faster.

[Redados]

Oh wait I'm stupid it prolly means she was mafia and her partner got herself eliminated fast

Correct!

Frogter is playing very conservative here spitting mafia theory at us instead of actually trying to solve the game. Refraining from voting the biggest scumtell and doing IIoA.

I agree with this

omfg shelly stop sheeping me

HAHAHAHAHAH

Get jebaited, this be a kitten

I got jebaited

[Redados]

I'd like to hear more from Sceptorus.

I mean same but he just got prodded...
In case he comes back before the replacement comes, my opinion on him is that he seems to have similar reads to me which is a noobtell imo(if noobtell's even a word) He seemed to be sheeping other people which was something someone can't remember who pointed out. I personally thought he wasn't sheeping anyone bc he was only here for like the first 2 days or something and everything a lil sus there everyone's gonna notice immediately. So I thought that everyone having similar reads during that period of time was acceptable. Basically I wrote a whole paragraph which can be summarized as I townread him.

reading this makes me realize that up to this point, I could not tell you a single thing that Sceptorus has really said or done. Ugh.

hi thanks for page top ryan i appreciate you posting a few times so i can get it

i’m ryan if you didn’t know

love, ryan

I thought EchoVision’s avatar was a jellyfish cause I only looked at it peripherally but I’m now realizing that he’s a spaceman. Is this AI????

Sirius I want to hear your take on this game. you haven't been posting much so I find it unfair that I can't bring myself to scumread u which results in me only being able to scumread other people that have been talking more when u could be scum choosing to watch town rip itself apart.

LAMIST-ing by asking lurkers to talk?

I'm a very paranoid person.

NO. Noraa is acting pro-town here by trying to get the lurkers to talk, don’t yell at her here!

Who's the partner?

Who told you to use AtE in your PT

Holy baiting batman

have no idea why plusJoy decided to copy my post word for word in 400 and 401.

so now you pivot on your SR on me? because of my wall case or what

I've be SR in every game I've ever been in.Wanting stuff to happen is apparently scum I guess.
400 and 401 was a joke.

I think it’s pretty obvious that posts 400 and 401s were jokes. It was obvious. In addition, it was also hilarious.

ooh so OMGUS-ing me here interesting, very interesting

I will defend emphatically to your fake case

I am not a plan of your playstyle but I know that it is NAI. Ugh.

unless marathon games count. ok now I'll shut up before someone says I'm fluffposting or whatever lol

I mean keep posting. The lesson here isn’t, “you’re fluffposting, shut up”. The lesson here is, “you’re fluffposting, say better stuff.” Either way, keep talking and posting.

we have two days left, I'm comfortable voting within: {shelly, plus, sirius, sceptorus, nika} in no particular order.

idk if plus can ever be town in my eyes at this point
shelly was fine but idk wasn't a fan of the push on plus it seemed rather aggressive as opposed to effective i guess?

Shelly’s pushes will always be aggressive as opposed to effective. It's NAI but definitely anti-town imo.

HOLD TF UP
sirius is an se?!

SE just means you have played a few newbie games, along with a game outside the newbie queue. It doesn't turn you into Sherlock Holmes.

LOL. lots of funny people in this game this will be a good game!

The lack of scumleans/scumreads is concerning ^

at least he’s being honest. Would you want him to make up scumreads if he didn’t have any? Especially because his null pool is largely inactive. Which makes sense!

[Redados]

*SE-hat on*

@ Shelly, I think this post is something you would benefit from reading through and mulling over if you are town:

It's by word321 in newbie game 2022 in post-game feedback that succinctly articulates what I think of your slot this game

As for the feedback, I think that Ive already said everything I could say to the scum team on the last day, I guess; nothing else comes to mind
And for the rest, Id say to have an eye on objectives behind actions, or try to guess what ppl r trying to acomplish, more than direct "tells" like acting like scum; scum actively tries to play like town; what differs is in the intention behind actions more than actions.
Oc, take everything I say with a grain of salt, but I hope it helps a lil bit at least.

Amen

Rereading shelly, reads more like a newbietown who thinks every single post is alignment indicative AND is pre-occupied with themself as being town, so anyone who SRs them is scum.

AMEN

What's wrong with thinking every post is AI though?

UGHH!!!!!

I'm really struggling to get over posts 400 and 401 though.

I can understand both posting similar thoughts, but WORD FOR WORD AND FORMATTING literally verbatim is disturbing. There are like 20 ways the 2 posts could differ, from the order of 72/frog vs frog/72, to punctuation

It. Was. A. Joke.

Happy Father's Day to all the dads out there, even if you don't celebrate Father's Day today!

my guy is on the mars timezone lol

lol

Happy Father's Day to all the dads out there, even if you don't celebrate Father's Day today!

my guy is on the mars timezone lol

father day is June 2nd saturday

not in Australia

Like I said before, in earlier games I tried to devote effort to solving without worryinf about appearances. I'm still learning the game. I ended up getting elimed the same day I replaced in, and the town never really got anything from that. I've never rolled scum on this website. So this time, I'm trying to act town first solve/assist solve second so I don't die. And Shelly's agressive push on me is interfering with my solve attempts, which will probably be thrown out when I die. That doesn't help town either.

I don’t think solving is productive this early. Especially not as early as you started attempting to solve.

This is pretty townie. But all of these things fall into categories of wither genuine mistakes, meticulous obsessing on my personality, attacking me for not wanting be SR, or twisting my words/misinterpreting them. I get it, being self conscious is bad. I'm a newbie slot, still learning this stuff.

I'm gonna commit to 72o since they still feel a lil scummy to me. Their logic doesn't make sense. I'm leaning more on scum shelly, unsure how much of that is gut/prior experience with them and how much of that is me being pissy so I'll hold off for now

why is my wall scummy and 72offsuit's wall townie? doesn't make sense

your wall is worse

[Redados]

PlusJoy please claim because you're at E-1

the survivalistic mindset is so scummy upon rereading, our wincon is to kick all the scum NOT stay alive

I hate this

Fuck.
I am the town friendly neighbor.

I hate this more

Lol. Worst request for a claim and worst claim ever, even for a. Newbie game.

Agreed

UNVOTE: PlusJOYED

I dont buy the claim.

1. Total scumbucket, so i think its extremely likely just scum role fishing and trying to avert their lynch.

2. No PR is that ready to out themselves at the drop if a hat, especially not when:
A) a player requested for no hammers
B) we have replacements incoming
C) request for a claim came from their scumread
D) request came from a player who was already on their wagon And unable to actually hammer

Unvoting until replacements in.

I mean, TFN is a comfirmable claim. We can literally prove it. So I don’t think it’s a scumbucket?

Guys plusjoy outed scum here

I’m the doctor and doctor is impossible to be paired with a TFN

Hammer this right now

This game took a really fucking dumb turn. Guess I shouldn't have claimed yet but it's really disadvantagous to elim PR as they said and I didn't see how I wouldn't die at E-1 and everyone but Nora thinking im scum. But kill shelly for real, let them flip red (again) and I'll die from NK tonight

If Shelly is scum, then she is really really stupid.

I know there is a Cop or Tracker in the game. They'll prove me right.

okay buddy this is pretty scummy. We don’t need more counterclaims.

There is 1 of 2 outcomes here:
I flip red and shelly dies tonight
Or
I flip TFN and shelly gets elimed tomorrow

It's up to you guys really. I know I'm TFN but that's all I can give ya

this seems like the correct assessment.

Emblematic of being pocketed by scum

it's an easy choice. just vote plusjoy here

pedit: why would you unvote? we can wait for a 2nd PR claim to disprove (or prove) the claim

STOP. Other power role do NOT claim

Yeah I'd like the tracker/jailkeeper to claim now so we know who is scum

STOP

I agree with post 599

A town pr verifying me and damning shelly, will save us from eliming a townie here, which is the current trajectory. And if a pr counterclaims me and sides with shelly, when I flip green the game will be solved. Or vice versa.

Nope. Stop.

I'm still not reading PLUS as scum.

Or shelly.

HOW. One of them has to be scum, right?? Or am I crazy

A town pr verifying me and damning shelly, will save us from eliming a townie here, which is the current trajectory. And if a pr counterclaims me and sides with shelly, when I flip green the game will be solved. Or vice versa.

This is all kinds of wrong.

correct.

I agree with post 673.

[Redados]

I'm all caught up. I'm prepared to lim PlusJoy today.

[Redados]

I went to the last votecount and saw that PlusJoy is at E-2. Everyone is saying "don't hammer", but I should be able to safely vote and put him at E-1, right?

[Redados]

If y'all put Plus at E-1 he could self-hammer. I don't have any problems with him getting lim'd but I also do want to see 72 comment on this nonsense. Not too upset if we go for the hammer right now, but we've got a day and a bit so we aren't in a rush yet. I think we've seen enough people talk that it's pretty clear we aren't going to get a third PR claim so there's no real danger in waiting. I'm not going to plonk my vote down until we have like ~12 hours left or we finish hearing from people, whichever comes first.

That being said, there's waiting for 72's comment is basically the only reason we have to wait, and ultimately I don't think they'll get nightkilled. I won't read scum into anyone who wants to move to night yet.

Happy to see you redados, AFKs are no fun.

I've agreed with like, every single one of your posts. I agree with this one as well. Thanks for pointing out the self-vote, I was not thinking about that.

though truth be told, eliming a provable pr role is pretty dumb as town.

You or Shelly is scum. Right? Would you admit that? If you are scum, we vote you and Shelly gets nightkilled. If you are town, we flip you and vote off Shelly tomorrow.
If we vote Shelly, if she is scum, you live. If we vote her and she's town, then we vote you tomorrow. You only get to live if we vote Shelly and you are town. Right now, I believe Shelly over you, so I'm going to vote for you.

NOBODY CLAIM ANY ROLES
NOBODY HAMMER
IF YOU HAVE AN INSTINCT TO DO SOMETHING JUST DON'T DO IT[/b]

Thank you hahahaha I'll wait to vote.

[Redados]

I was actually planning to visit froster since they seemed townie before this went down but idk now

This doesn't work, buddy. If you say, " I will target frogster" and you're scum, you can just kill Frogster and say "ope he's dead oh well now I can't prove it". Or scum can kill him and frame you. Or you can just say you targeted whoever got nightkilled. So this doesn't work. We need to flip you.

[Redados]

I feel like town is throwing by not limming plus here.

We'll lim Plus.

[Redados]

I just describe a situation in which town loses from this plan and then PLUS immediately says "I like this plan"

bad timing ig

nah

Not that it matters since I'll be elimed soon, but my elim pool today is just shellyc, and my elim pool tomorrow is (72o, froster)

Bro if I had god tier persuasive skills, I would try to not have an elim today cuz I feel like no elim is better than killing a townie(some people had valid points against this but like ) But it seems a lot of peoples opinions r set in stone at this point and I hate it but also i don't know what to do. Now's about the time when I low-key wish I was an SE that knew wtf I was doing.

no elim is BAD

[Redados]

VOTE: PLUSJOY

[Redados]

I just describe a situation in which town loses from this plan and then PLUS immediately says "I like this plan"

bad timing ig

nah

Not that it matters since I'll be elimed soon, but my elim pool today is just shellyc, and my elim pool tomorrow is (72o, froster)

Bro if I had god tier persuasive skills, I would try to not have an elim today cuz I feel like no elim is better than killing a townie(some people had valid points against this but like ) But it seems a lot of peoples opinions r set in stone at this point and I hate it but also i don't know what to do. Now's about the time when I low-key wish I was an SE that knew wtf I was doing.

no elim is BAD

T^T new replacement doesn't like my reads

"I want to no lim" is not a read! No lim is BAD

[Redados]

Sorry for my misplays town. This was my second real mafia game and I'm still not very good

It's okay, it worked out! You brought a scum down with you, which is an *excellent* trade we'll hang Shelly tomorrow! I can't WAIT to see how she tried to finagle her way out of this one

[Redados]

For some meta commentary, being the town friendly neighbor is actually really hard. You want to use your role on people you think are town. You won't want to use you role on people you think are scum. But if you pick the towniest people to use your role on, then they'll just get nightkilled and it'll go to waste.

[Redados]

I just describe a situation in which town loses from this plan and then PLUS immediately says "I like this plan"

bad timing ig

nah

Not that it matters since I'll be elimed soon, but my elim pool today is just shellyc, and my elim pool tomorrow is (72o, froster)

Bro if I had god tier persuasive skills, I would try to not have an elim today cuz I feel like no elim is better than killing a townie(some people had valid points against this but like ) But it seems a lot of peoples opinions r set in stone at this point and I hate it but also i don't know what to do. Now's about the time when I low-key wish I was an SE that knew wtf I was doing.

no elim is BAD

T^T new replacement doesn't like my reads

"I want to no lim" is not a read! No lim is BAD

but I mean I feel like limming a pr is worse than not limming at all ... right?

In a vacuum maybe, but we learned a lot! And dude, we found a scum for it. That's an excellent trade!

[Redados]

For some meta commentary, being the town friendly neighbor is actually really hard. You want to use your role on people you think are town. You won't want to use you role on people you think are scum. But if you pick the towniest people to use your role on, then they'll just get nightkilled and it'll go to waste.

You want to use your role on people who aren't townreading you, so you can change their minds. But if everyone townreads you, then the scum will just nightkills you. It's actually a really hard tole to play. You going down one for one with a scum is excellent, and I wouldn't feel too bad if I were you!

[Redados]

In a vacuum maybe, but we learned a lot! And dude, we found a scum for it. That's an excellent trade!

Thats mean -________________________________-

It's not! If we do that trade twice, we win!

[Redados]

...I'm a noobie.

[Redados]

...I'm a noobie.

eh I still like plus more :3 im not happy with how you hammered someone the day you replaced in. in fact I would almost say that's a scumtell

what? I hammered because one of them is scum, they each role claimed contradictory roles. If Plus flipped town (which he did), we'll just lim Shelly tomorrow. This is fine/good.

The TFN isn't a role that really helps once you get outed, he was just gonna get nightkilled. Doctor is more useful to keep around if Shelly were town (which she's not )

I replaced in today, but I read the whole thread and caught up... do I have to wait a certain amount of hours before I'm allowed to vote?

[Redados]

update: i don't like mundivore as town

I've agreed with pretty much everything Mundivore has posted

VOTE: PLUSJOY

you assholes

oops

[Redados]

Oh wait, I think you were the fifth vote, and you unvoted.

[Redados]

UNVOTE

[Redados]

yeah wait oops, I wasn't the hammer. That was just E-1, I didn't see that echo had unvoted.

[Redados]

So it's not twilight, it's still day?

[Redados]

now the thing is...

did plus know that?

I think he (among with most of us) thought it was night. And I believe him. I think it's time to vote Shelly off the island. I would like a votecount first though.

[Redados]

now the thing is...

did plus know that?

GODDAMNIT I WAS BOUT TO SAY THIS PROVES PLUS IS INNOCENT THEN A WILD JELLYFISH RUINED THE MOMENT >:(

I am not enjoying your holier-than-thou communication style where you are judging me for hammering when you haven't cast a single vote yourself, apparently? I am not a fan.

Pedit: how am I the better vote than Shelly right here?

[Redados]

now the thing is...

did plus know that?

GODDAMNIT I WAS BOUT TO SAY THIS PROVES PLUS IS INNOCENT THEN A WILD JELLYFISH RUINED THE MOMENT >:(

I am not enjoying your holier-than-thou communication style where you are judging me for hammering when you haven't cast a single vote yourself, apparently? I am not a fan.

Pedit: how am I the better vote than Shelly right here?

"haven't cast a single vote"
have you not read thru the whole thing? I took my vote off of 72 and didn't choose shelly or plus. I will not vote for shelly or plus bc I TR them

sorry: my brain read this as you saying that you hadn't voted, that was my bad:

me? no I never voted plus ... ever

I did put thought into it. Either JOY or Shelly is scum. They have conflicting claims. One of them has to be scum. I'm not sheeping the town's opinion. I read through the whole thread, am I not allowed to have opinions?

I picked between them who I believed more. I believed Shelly more. I'm confused by your FoS.

I was going to vote for one of them. One of them is a PR and one of them is scum. I am okay if we lose a power role to lim a scum. That isn't scum-indicative.

[Redados]

I'm getting a little defensive and I don't need to be, because my actions speak for themselves.

[Redados]

Noraa, you are reminding me of ShellyC, and not in a good way.

[Redados]

Yeah. Shelly and Plus can't both be town. I understand that you would be suspicious of me Nora if you thought that, but I just don't see it as possible.

[Redados]

Setup Information

NewD3 (as designed by RadiantCowbells):

	A	B	C
Mafia	Mafia Roleblocker	Mafia Rolecop	Mafia Goon
Row 1	Town Cop and Town Doctor	Town Tracker and Town Friendly Neighbor	Town Cop and Vanilla Townie
Row 2	Town Jailkeeper and Town Tracker	Town Jailkeeper and Town Friendly Neighbor	Town Jailkeeper and Vanilla Townie
Row 3	Town Mason and Town Mason	Town Tracker and Town Doctor	Town Mason and Town Mason

Each Newbie Game will be given a setup that incorporates one mafia role from the top of a column, and then two town roles from a row below the selected mafia role.
The remaining six roles will be filled in by

one mafia goon

and

five vanilla townies

appropriately, to create a

2-mafia

and

7-town

setup.

All Newbie games use the Natural Action Resolution system for determining Night action effects.

Mafia Roleblocker

action takes precedence over a

Town Jailkeeper

action should that apply.

Mafia are able to communicate in their Private Topic at all times.

Spoiler: List of Setups

Column A & Row 1:

Mafia Roleblocker, Mafia Goon, Town Cop, Town Doctor, Vanilla Townie x 5

Column A & Row 2:

Mafia Roleblocker, Mafia Goon, Town Jailkeeper, Town Tracker, Vanilla Townie x 5

Column A & Row 3:

Mafia Roleblocker, Mafia Goon, Town Mason x2, Vanilla Townie x 5

Column B & Row 1:

Mafia Rolecop, Mafia Goon, Town Tracker, Town Friendly Neighbor, Vanilla Townie x 5

Column B & Row 2:

Mafia Rolecop, Mafia Goon, Town Jailkeeper, Town Friendly Neighbor, Vanilla Townie x 5

Column B & Row 3:

Mafia Rolecop, Mafia Goon, Town Tracker, Town Doctor, Vanilla Townie x 5

Column C & Row 1:

Mafia Goon x 2, Town Cop, Vanilla Townie x 6

Column C & Row 2:

Mafia Goon x 2, Town Jailkeeper, Vanilla Townie x 6

Column C & Row 3:

Mafia Goon x 2, Town Mason x2, Vanilla Townie x 5

Spoiler: Sample Role PM's

Vanilla Townie

Welcome!

You are a

Vanilla Townie

.

You have no special abilities.

You win when there are no longer any threats to town.

The game thread is here.

Confirm by replying with your role name and alignment.

Town Jailkeeper

Welcome!

You are a

Town Jailkeeper

.

You may target one player per night phase. This player will be protected from kills and be prevented from using their own action, if they have one, during that night phase. You cannot target yourself.

You win when there are no longer any threats to town.

The game thread is here.

Confirm by replying with your role name and alignment.

Town Cop

Welcome!

You are a

Town Cop

.

You may target one player per night phase. At the end of the night phase, you will be informed if they are

Town

or

Mafia

. If you are roleblocked, you will receive no result.

You win when there are no longer any threats to town.

The game thread is here.

Confirm by replying with your role name and alignment.

Town Mason

Welcome!

You are a

Town Mason

.

You know that [player] is Town-aligned. You also share a Private Thread (PT), located here, where you may talk at any time.

You have no active abilities.

You win when there are no longer any threats to town.

The game thread is here.

Confirm by replying with your role name and alignment or by posting in your PT.

Town Tracker

Welcome!

You are a

Town Tracker

.

You may target one player per night phase. At the end of the night phase, you will be informed what player or players they targeted with their action, if any. If you are roleblocked, you will receive no result.

You win when there are no longer any threats to town.

The game thread is here.

Confirm by replying with your role name and alignment.

Town Doctor

Welcome!

You are a

Town Doctor

.

You may target one player per night phase. This player will be protected from kills during that night phase. You cannot target yourself.

You win when there are no longer any threats to town.

The game thread is here.

Confirm by replying with your role name and alignment.

Town Friendly Neighbor

Welcome!

You are a

Town Friendly Neighbor

.

You may target one player per night phase. This player will be sent a message informing them that you are Town-aligned.

You win when there are no longer any threats to town.

The game thread is here.

Confirm by replying with your role name and alignment.

Mafia Goon

Welcome!

You are a

Mafia Goon

.

You and your partner share a factional kill each night. You must choose which of you will commit the kill. You also share a factional Private Thread (PT), located here, where you may talk at any time.

You win when the Town has been eliminated, or nothing can stop this from occurring.

The game thread is here.

Confirm by replying with your role name and alignment or by posting in your PT.

Mafia Rolecop

Welcome!

You are a

Mafia Rolecop

.

You may target one player per night phase. At the end of the night phase, you will be informed of their role but not their alignment.

Vanilla Townies

and

Mafia Goons

will both return "Vanilla". If you are roleblocked, you will receive no result.

You and your partner share a factional kill each night. You must choose which of you will commit the kill. You may commit the kill and perform a role cop in the same night phase. You also share a factional Private Thread (PT), located here, where you may talk at any time.

You win when the Town has been eliminated, or nothing can stop this from occurring.

The game thread is here.

Confirm by replying with your role name and alignment or by posting in your PT.

Mafia Roleblocker

Welcome!

You are a

Mafia Roleblocker

.

You may target one player per night. This player will be prevented from performing their own action, if any.

You and your partner share a factional kill each night. You must choose which of you will commit the kill. You may commit the kill and perform a roleblock in the same night phase. You also share a factional Private Thread (PT), located here, where you may talk at any time.

You win when the Town has been eliminated, or nothing can stop this from occurring.

The game thread is here.

Confirm by replying with your role name and alignment or by posting in your PT.

I'll go through each of the possible scenarios for you, Noraa.

A1: Cop and Doctor
-Plus is lying, Shelly is telling the truth

A2: Jailkeeper and Tracker
-Plus and Shelly are both lying

A3: Mason and Mason
-Plus and Shelly are both lying

B1: Tracker and Friendly Neighbor
-Plus is telling the truth, Shelly is lying

B2: Jailkeeper and Friendly Neighbor
-Plus is telling the truth, Shelly is lying

B3: Tracker and Doctor
-Plus is lying, Shelly is telling the truth

C1: Cop
-Plus and Shelly are both lying

C2: Jailkeeper
-Plus and Shelly are both lying

C3: Mason and Mason
-Plus and Shelly are both lying

Noraa, assuming that you are a vanilla townie, which set ups do you think we could be in? Which of these setups allows both of them to be town?

[Redados]

Assuming that either Shelly or PlusJoy is telling the truth, we have to be in A1, B1, B2, or B3. There's no scenario which lets it be possible that both of them are being truthful.

[Redados]

Idk man, I'm mildy worried if I survive I target the guy who gets NK'd or I get jailed and mafia attacks me. But idk.

If you get jailed and mafia attacks you, we'll know because there will be no night kill. That would be a success.

Try and target someone who is in the middle of your scum-town spectrum. If scum knows this and tries to aim their nightkill in a similar way because they know that you're going to target in this way, that helps us as a whole because it leaves more universally townread people in the game.

If you use your role on scum, and scum lies and gets you mislimmed, then we lim the scum.

Realistically, if you're the town friendly neighbor, you're going to get nightkilled. If not tonight, another night. But you taking the fall like that is helping less obviously town-read people get nightkilled, which helps the town as a whole. So it could be worse!

[Redados]

Your telling me that lying automatically mean your scum. This logic doesn't make any sense. I just played in two marathon games and I didn't tell the truth about my roles in one of them. Did that mean I was scum? hell no I was town cop

Yes, here I'm assuming that lying means that you are scum.

Claiming Your Role

It is almost always best to not claim your role unless you are at E-1 and have been asked to claim as part of an “intent to hammer.” This is because, as a town power role (“PR”), if you out prematurely, you are likely to be night-killed (“NK’d”). As a Vanilla Townie (“VT”), claiming early helps the mafia team narrow down the setup and possible PR candidates. An exception to this would be if a mafia player claimed your role, claiming early to counter the false claim (“CC”) would out the mafia player, and would be a benefit to the town.

Do not fake claim a power role as town!

While it may help you avoid getting eliminated, you might cause a real PR to out themselves by counterclaiming - then the mafia will know who the PR is, and you will probably get eliminated for lying to town. Feel free to fake a claim as scum, though, if you think it would help.

It is incredibly anti-town to fake claim a power role as town. Incredibly anti-town. The only time I can think of that ever working is in a particular gambit or something but that seems very risky and most likely to hurt the town. I think that it is a big reach to assume that this is the case in this situation.

[Redados]

Idk man, I'm mildy worried if I survive I target the guy who gets NK'd or I get jailed and mafia attacks me. But idk.

If you get jailed and mafia attacks you, we'll know because there will be no night kill. That would be a success.

Try and target someone who is in the middle of your scum-town spectrum.

If scum knows this and tries to aim their nightkill in a similar way because they know that you're going to target in this way, that helps us as a whole because it leaves more universally townread people in the game.

If you use your role on scum, and scum lies and gets you mislimmed, then we lim the scum.

Realistically, if you're the town friendly neighbor, you're going to get nightkilled. If not tonight, another night. But you taking the fall like that is helping less obviously town-read people get nightkilled, which helps the town as a whole. So it could be worse!

Telling everyone the plan isn't gonna help anything. its just gonna give scum a heads up

Bolded for emphasis

[Redados]

that is adorable noraa. But VT's don't lie about their role

Bruh I feel like vt wouldn't wanna say they r vanilla town bc 1)it helps scum narrow down choices for pr 2)town might eliminate u anyways bc they think ur sketch so they r thinking eh we either r limming a vt or a scum
And according to people like Redados, trading a pr for a scum is ok so killing off a vt that u think is scum I'm 100% sure is ok by these standards

Your refusal to listen and adapt to new information is really bothering me.

[Redados]

Your telling me that lying automatically mean your scum. This logic doesn't make any sense. I just played in two marathon games and I didn't tell the truth about my roles in one of them. Did that mean I was scum? hell no I was town cop

Yes, here I'm assuming that lying means that you are scum.

Claiming Your Role

It is almost always best to not claim your role unless you are at E-1 and have been asked to claim as part of an “intent to hammer.” This is because, as a town power role (“PR”), if you out prematurely, you are likely to be night-killed (“NK’d”). As a Vanilla Townie (“VT”), claiming early helps the mafia team narrow down the setup and possible PR candidates. An exception to this would be if a mafia player claimed your role, claiming early to counter the false claim (“CC”) would out the mafia player, and would be a benefit to the town.

Do not fake claim a power role as town!

While it may help you avoid getting eliminated, you might cause a real PR to out themselves by counterclaiming - then the mafia will know who the PR is, and you will probably get eliminated for lying to town. Feel free to fake a claim as scum, though, if you think it would help.

It is incredibly anti-town to fake claim a power role as town. Incredibly anti-town. The only time I can think of that ever working is in a particular gambit or something but that seems very risky and most likely to hurt the town. I think that it is a big reach to assume that this is the case in this situation.

Again I don't think noobs think things thru. I literally claimed a 3p role in my marathon game as a town cop. u look at that and say wow she's stupid but I mean noobs don't know wtf they r doing. this is legit a point I've pushed so much this game. People kept saying plus was scum bc blah blah blah but noobies don't think of those things!

Shelly wouldn't fakeclaim a power role as a vanilla townie. I can't speak for PlusJoy on this but I really think it's more likely than not for both of them that they are either a town power role or scum.

[Redados]

that is adorable noraa. But VT's don't lie about their role

Bruh I feel like vt wouldn't wanna say they r vanilla town bc 1)it helps scum narrow down choices for pr 2)town might eliminate u anyways bc they think ur sketch so they r thinking eh we either r limming a vt or a scum
And according to people like Redados, trading a pr for a scum is ok so killing off a vt that u think is scum I'm 100% sure is ok by these standards

Your refusal to listen and adapt to new information is really bothering me.

your ability to be able to change your opinion based on majority vote that fast is quite stunning too. makes me think ur trying too hard to blend in with town scum!redado

I'm not sheeping majority vote. I, along with the majority, are sheeping logic.

[Redados]

@mod can we get a vote count? I think we've proven we have too much monke brain to be able to count votes.

Mod should be waking up soon.

I'm emotionally exhausted, back in a few hours. I do think either me or shelly has to die today for the 50/50. Nothing else makes sense imo

Agreed. I will be voting for Shelly today.

[Redados]

@Mundivore
valid point on Redados. He seemed like he knew he hammered yet didn't give any kind of heads up. that's scummy imo. personally didn't see the pocketing pls elaborate.
sirius was replaced I'm pretty sure
echos play style just seems to be like that. its pretty daring but it seems like something that I feel like he would tone down if mafia and I don't see that hear so my tr on him stays.
72 is a tr for me for now
frog is null now bc I thought offering to give a free town pass to everyone that voted plus seemed a lil scummy
I have however tr'ed frog for a very long time so he might go back to that list soon

I’m mobile posting but I know what he’s referring to and I will try and find it

[Redados]

update: i don't like mundivore as town

I've agreed with pretty much everything Mundivore has posted

VOTE: PLUSJOY

you assholes

oops

This

[Redados]

update: i don't like mundivore as town

I've agreed with pretty much everything Mundivore has posted

VOTE: PLUSJOY

you assholes

oops

This

Uh no I was asking when u tried to pocket mundivore

Bolded for emphasis

[Redados]

@Mundivore
valid point on Redados. He seemed like he knew he hammered yet didn't give any kind of heads up. that's scummy imo. personally didn't see the pocketing pls elaborate.
sirius was replaced I'm pretty sure
echos play style just seems to be like that. its pretty daring but it seems like something that I feel like he would tone down if mafia and I don't see that hear so my tr on him stays.
72 is a tr for me for now
frog is null now bc I thought offering to give a free town pass to everyone that voted plus seemed a lil scummy
I have however tr'ed frog for a very long time so he might go back to that list soon

I’m mobile posting but I know what he’s referring to and I will try and find it

I also said this:

I agree with post 673.

Post 673 was written by Mundivore:

IDK I think CC'ing as Doctor to get a 100% scum kill is pretty worth it. Doctor is worth more than a townie, but on average Doctor doesn't usually get to save anyone. Doctor can turn the game with their night action, but using your role (by way of counterclaim) to 100% prove scum is better than the usual ceiling you get out of the night role (when you save someone you prove that they're town and give town an extra day of discussion). Saving two people is probably better than getting one scum (two town confirms plus one extra town kill), but I'd say Doctors don't generally get to do that on average. If I were in shelly's position, I'd do the same.

[Redados]

@Mundivore
valid point on Redados. He seemed like he knew he hammered yet didn't give any kind of heads up. that's scummy imo. personally didn't see the pocketing pls elaborate.
sirius was replaced I'm pretty sure
echos play style just seems to be like that. its pretty daring but it seems like something that I feel like he would tone down if mafia and I don't see that hear so my tr on him stays.
72 is a tr for me for now
frog is null now bc I thought offering to give a free town pass to everyone that voted plus seemed a lil scummy
I have however tr'ed frog for a very long time so he might go back to that list soon

I’m mobile posting but I know what he’s referring to and I will try and find it

why are you helping dig up dirt on urself? ur just getting scummier in my eyes

It's not AI but it's pro-town of me to answer your question.

and going and finding this stuff urself just makes me sr u harder dude

Again, it's not AI but it's pro-town of me to answer your question.

[Redados]

btw hey Redados, how's it going?

Sup

[Redados]

I don't understand why your telling me this and its making me question your intentions a shit ton please stop. I literally asked Mundivore why they think ur attempting to pocket them and you come over here and tell me why. I'm having a terribly hard time trying to understand what in the world ur trying to do with this

The answer is that I'm not trying to pocket Mundivore. I have heavily agreed with everything he had posted that I had read, and since I like to freeform and wordvomit my thoughts, I posted that I have heavily agreed with everything he had posted that I had read.

I can see how that would come across as pocketing. As the game continues, y'all will see that it was not pocketing and it was just a coincidence that Mundivore had some good stuff to say.

I have nothing to hide, so I am showing you the "pocketing" posts so that you can read them and come to their own conclusions. I am not "digging up dirt on myself" because it is not dirt.

[Redados]

Readslist

Noraa: New and confused town or scum. VERY CONFUSING PLAY, VERY POOR INSISTENCE AT US BEING TvT. Posting feels like me in 2019, few to no reads, scum!them playing chaos style to distract the town from reads

hard agree here

Redados: Gives me a DIFFERENT VIBE. Intentional "hammer", 825 wants to go me BUT VOTED FOR PLUSJOY EARLIER: contradiction. Sceptorus was also playing very agreeable which is scummy

Voted for Plusjoy, I changed my mind after seeing his reaction to being "limmed". It has to be one of you two, which I think you agree with. My limpool for today is you or Plusjoy. If it's not him it's you.

[Redados]

where is plusjoy at btw

were they hammered? im confused

I meant to hammer him but Echo unvoted so I just put him at E-1. But we all thought he was hammered.

[Redados]

Like the 4th time I've said this, but it honestly makes no sense why shelly would counter claim here. Does she think she can get away it when I flip? It seems super cocky to think so.

thank you for TMI-ing

it makes 0 sense because I'm town here and claimed to get rid of you

Shelly it's starting to get on my nerves that you think it's ok to just throw this game away. Regardless of alignment, fake claiming here is just really dumb or cocky that you think you can live when I flip green.

noraa stop being naïve, they’re not both town

yeah wtf noraa WE'RE NOT BOTH TOWN

[Redados]

I changed my mind after seeing his reaction to being "limmed".

don't listen to scum theatre, listen to good old logic please

- scum!me has no need to claim it: read my above posts ive said this enough times
- the claim was super wack and at the worst time ever
- Read plusjoy's ISO overall. I see no indication of a town mindset at all

Yeah you raise some good points and those are all reasons I voted for Plusjoy. I feel that his reaction was genuine, so I changed my mind and I would like to lim you. But if you flip town then of course I would lim Plusjoy.

[Redados]

I changed my mind after seeing his reaction to being "limmed".

don't listen to scum theatre, listen to good old logic please

- scum!me has no need to claim it: read my above posts ive said this enough times
- the claim was super wack and at the worst time ever
- Read plusjoy's ISO overall. I see no indication of a town mindset at all

If you are town, you did your job. You claimed and took down scum. The scum you took down will die. You succeeded.
If you are scum, you messed up and you will die. You will either get limmed today or you will get limmed day two. End of story.

The only scenario in which you don't die is if we lim Plusjoy today and he flips scum. However, Plusjoy claimed a role which can be verified, so why not verify it?

If you are town, it is okay to die. Why are you freaking out?
If you are scum, it is not okay to die, so I would understand why you are freaking out.

[Redados]

I did AtE at E-1 in 2019

it's exactly the same. listen to logic not emotion.

I think this might be more genuine though because he thought it was E-0.

Also we can verify his TFN claim, we couldn't verify your VT claim in N2019.

[Redados]

I did AtE at E-1 in 2019

it's exactly the same. listen to logic not emotion.

I think this might be more genuine though because he thought it was E-0.

Also we can verify his TFN claim, we couldn't verify your VT claim in N2019.

We can't verify your doctor claim without flipping you or Plusjoy.

[Redados]

I changed my mind after seeing his reaction to being "limmed".

don't listen to scum theatre, listen to good old logic please

- scum!me has no need to claim it: read my above posts ive said this enough times
- the claim was super wack and at the worst time ever
- Read plusjoy's ISO overall. I see no indication of a town mindset at all

If you are town, you did your job. You claimed and took down scum. The scum you took down will die. You succeeded.
If you are scum, you messed up and you will die. You will either get limmed today or you will get limmed day two. End of story.

The only scenario in which you don't die is if we lim Plusjoy today and he flips scum. However, Plusjoy claimed a role which can be verified, so why not verify it?

If you are town, it is okay to die. Why are you freaking out?
If you are scum, it is not okay to die, so I would understand why you are freaking out.

No one wants to die. ur logic doesn't go thru. most people have waited in the queue for a while to get into a game. u really think that just bc they r town, they r fine with dying?

Town can still win if they die, scum is much less likely to win if they die.

I'm not saying that not wanting to die is NAI, I'm just explaining why if she is town, then it's going to be okay even if she gets limmed!

[Redados]

I changed my mind after seeing his reaction to being "limmed".

don't listen to scum theatre, listen to good old logic please

- scum!me has no need to claim it: read my above posts ive said this enough times
- the claim was super wack and at the worst time ever
- Read plusjoy's ISO overall. I see no indication of a town mindset at all

If you are town, you did your job. You claimed and took down scum. The scum you took down will die. You succeeded.
If you are scum, you messed up and you will die. You will either get limmed today or you will get limmed day two. End of story.

The only scenario in which you don't die is if we lim Plusjoy today and he flips scum. However, Plusjoy claimed a role which can be verified, so why not verify it?

If you are town, it is okay to die. Why are you freaking out?
If you are scum, it is not okay to die, so I would understand why you are freaking out.

No one wants to die. ur logic doesn't go thru. most people have waited in the queue for a while to get into a game. u really think that just bc they r town, they r fine with dying?

Unflipped power role townies also don't want to die. This doesn't apply to Shelly. Town!Shelly flipped as doctor so if she doesn't get limmed she's going to get nightkilled anyway. This is something she would have had to accept when she roleclaimed on day one. Shelly doesn't get to live, whether she is town or scum, for this reason.

[Redados]

I did AtE at E-1 in 2019

it's exactly the same. listen to logic not emotion.

For anyone wondering, AtE = Appeal to Emotion

Here is scum!Shelly's appeal to emotion in Newbie 2019:

I'm vanilla town. I'm just a town, on the verge of a mislynch.
Why is this game so unforgiving to newbies? I don't see why I'm locked scum by everyone.
...

Not everyone thinks you are scum, hence the people voting for word321 instead. Relax. Someone has to get limmed on Day 1.

You know, I got my VT role PM, went into this game as a total newbie, pushed a guy that I had no idea was Mason, and just got pushed. And I'm tunneled by confirmed town. I'm legit freaking out right now

[Redados]

That's why I'm trying to get my thoughts out

Redados brings an IIoA vibe to me in this game

are you an SE now, redados?

he said he was a noob

I'm a newb. I have played in one completed game: Newbie 2019. I am a participant in an ongoing game which I will not discuss. This is my third newbie game. Outside of Mafiascum, I have not played forum mafia since 2012. I have not played any games on Mafiascum outside of The Road to Rome.

[Redados]

I did AtE at E-1 in 2019

it's exactly the same. listen to logic not emotion.

For anyone wondering, AtE = Appeal to Emotion

Here is scum!Shelly's appeal to emotion in Newbie 2019:

I'm vanilla town. I'm just a town, on the verge of a mislynch.
Why is this game so unforgiving to newbies? I don't see why I'm locked scum by everyone.
...

Not everyone thinks you are scum, hence the people voting for word321 instead. Relax. Someone has to get limmed on Day 1.

You know, I got my VT role PM, went into this game as a total newbie, pushed a guy that I had no idea was Mason, and just got pushed. And I'm tunneled by confirmed town. I'm legit freaking out right now

Don't bring up stuff like this. it just makes u seem like u hold grudges against players from game to game and that's not cool

I think using the meta of a completed game is fair. Shelly said, "I did Appeal to Emotion in 2019 and this is exactly the same" in post 940. I'm showing Shelly's appeal to emotion so people besides me can understand what she's talking about. I'm adding context, I'm not criticizing Shelly's play in that game. She played incredibly well and she fooled me 100%.

[Redados]

That's why I'm trying to get my thoughts out

Redados brings an IIoA vibe to me in this game

are you an SE now, redados?

Had to google that abbreviation!

In my catch up I did a fair bit of analysis over information. I feel like the last few hours have skewed more heavily towards information just because I felt like Noraa wasn't understanding the power role setups etc.

My general thought is that if I don't know something (like IIoA standing for Information Instead of Analysis), then there's a good chance someone else might not either, especially because we're in a newbie game. So I might as well explain in case someone else was on the same page as me.

[Redados]

Noraa, I really don't like your playstyle. I don't think it's alignment-indicative necessarily, but I really am not a fan of how you are playing.

[Redados]

Noraa, I really don't like your playstyle. I don't think it's alignment-indicative necessarily, but I really am not a fan of how you are playing.

hm I will listen to constructive feedback. tell me what's wrong with my play style

I'm having a hard time articulating it, so I'm going to go through your posts and pick out the ones that I don't like. I want to stress that I don't think your playstyle is alignment-indicative as in I'm not necessarily scumreading you just because you're posting things that I don't like. I just don't like it.

What is crumbing? also what's (self)meta? I can't find definitions for these in the abbreviations wiki doc

Crumbing is when you say stuff that you can point back to prove your point. Like if on Day One I say "hey, neighbor" and then on day four I quote it and say, see, I was crumbing the role Town Friendly Neighbor

that's sounds stupid af

crumbing just sounds stupid and a scumtell almost

Reason I don't like: bad takes

I just describe a situation in which town loses from this plan and then PLUS immediately says "I like this plan"

bad timing ig

nah

Not that it matters since I'll be elimed soon, but my elim pool today is just shellyc, and my elim pool tomorrow is (72o, froster)

Bro if I had god tier persuasive skills, I would try to not have an elim today cuz I feel like no elim is better than killing a townie(some people had valid points against this but like ) But it seems a lot of peoples opinions r set in stone at this point and I hate it but also i don't know what to do. Now's about the time when I low-key wish I was an SE that knew wtf I was doing.

no elim is BAD

T^T new replacement doesn't like my reads

"I want to no lim" is not a read! No lim is BAD

but I mean I feel like limming a pr is worse than not limming at all ... right?

I think this is a straw man. It's not like you're advocating for lynching scum while I'm advocating for lynching a PR townie. It's much more nuanced than that. We have battling roleclaims. The fact that you break it down like this makes me upset.

...I'm a noobie.

eh I still like plus more :3 im not happy with how you hammered someone the day you replaced in. in fact I would almost say that's a scumtell

I've asked this a bajillion times and if you answered I missed it; how is this a scumtell? I didn't replace in and naked vote. I caught up on the whole thread and responded to stuff in chronological order. I deserve to participate in the game and your attitude towards this makes me upset.

watch shelly be vt
I was right about plus so I believe I'm also right about shelly

Shelly has claimed a power role. She is either the doctor or some sort of scum. There is no way that she can be a vanilla townie.

There's some more stuff in your ISO but I think I've already responded to all of it.

[Redados]

I think I had a sr on redados long before u did @shelly
I could've remembered wrong but that's how I remembered it

Order of operations:
1) Shelly goes to sleep
2) I replace in
3) I talk
4) You scumread me
5) Shelly wakes up
6) You brag to Shelly about scumreading me before she did

[Redados]

if we do lynch outside of the counter claims it’s gonna have to be fast, should prob start discussion about it now

i don’t like nikahangs slot as town

lurker was replaced echo keep up with the times lol

yes i know it was but i didn't remember the guys name just his picture so i went with calling it nika's slot

I still get the two new ones confused and shelly legit just told me which one mundivore was and I have already forgotten. Whatever I'm just gonna not think of them as nikahang and sceptorus, its far too confusing

It's in the first post if you need a refresh:

Newbie 2027 | Doggos

Hosted by JacksonVirgo

Backup Hosted by the worst

Player List

Sirius9121*	ISO
Noraa	ISO
Mundivore	ISO	Nikahang
shellyc	ISO
Redados	ISO	Sceptorus
PlusJOYED	ISO	XrCyclone, MiniMegabyte
EchoVision (SE)	ISO
Frogsterking (SE)	ISO
72offsuit (SE)	ISO

* means a prod. Three prods means force-replacement

Player List

Spoiler: Living

Sirius9121
Noraa
Nikahang
shellyc
Sceptorus
PlusJOYED
EchoVision
Frogsterking
72offsuit

The Graveyard

Spoiler: Dead

JacksonVirgo - Killed by Life N0 -

Moderator

Logbook

Spoiler: Events

[Redados]

I think I had a sr on redados long before u did @shelly
I could've remembered wrong but that's how I remembered it

Order of operations:
1) Shelly goes to sleep
2) I replace in
3) I talk
4) You scumread me
5) Shelly wakes up
6) You brag to Shelly about scumreading me before she did

lol

I expressed an SR on Sceptorus early on let me find it

It's okay to scumread Sceptorus, I won't be offended

To be fair, I believe I was the first to express an SR on Sceptorus.

how is it protown to brag about when you SR-ed someone

It was a joke and it made me chuckle

[Redados]

VOTE: ShellyC

[Redados]

If you flip me, make sure to get PlusJoy tomorrow

We will absolutely do that!!

[Redados]

The stats guy in me has to disagree with you shelly, you haven't proven anything, you've only provided evidence for your point of view.

i'm a math ed major
that being said,
fuck statistics

LOL I'm taking ap stats next year ur scaring me

My least favorite class in college was Economic Statistics. But I'm sure that AP Stats will be fine!

[Redados]

Echo's quote says pokeballs

yeah that's from a hydra i made YEARS ago with someone named MarioManiac4
we were ChikoritasInAction so yeah we liked pokemon and get it bc balls

good one

[Redados]

it's not like a readslist is a super secret document or anything

If someone is universally townread, like echo, then their greatest threat is the scum nightkilling them. Keeping a reads list close to your chest can help you avoid that.

[Redados]

We can rule out a ShellyC/PlusJoy scumteam, right? Because the other power roles would make keeping up that facade impossible

[Redados]

Whats the TLDR summary?

TLDR ShellyC and PlusJoy gave contradictory claims, so one of them has to be scum.

Noraa and I argued over that a lil bit. Stats suck. We've floated the idea of not limming ShellyC OR PlusJoy today but realistically there's no way that's happening.

Pedit: oh yeah I almost accidentally hammered

[Redados]

I’m here

[Redados]

we're at 12 hours now, so I'm getting a little nervous about a no lim.

morning who's here

im here

Glad you're here! Unfortunately we're amassing a group of people to hammer you so your presence is not super helpful

[Redados]

And to clarify, so Noraa will not say that I am changing my opinion to suit the majority, here is my preference:

1) Lim Shelly
2) Lim Plusjoy
3) Lim anyone else
4) Self lim
5) No lim.

Noraa, no lim is NOT an option. No lim is very bad for the town and I do not want that. So since we're in the final twelve hours, I may change my vote. I am not sheeping, I'm just trying to get a lim so we don't waste a chance to catch mafia.

[Redados]

VC 1.13

shellyc (1)

- PlusJOYED

PlusJOYED (2)

- shellyc, Mundivore

Noraa (1)

- Sirius9121

Redados (1)

- Noraa

Not Voting (4)

- 72offsuit, EchoVision, Redados, Frogsterking

With 9 unfortunate souls alive, you need 5 votes to eliminate.

PlusJOYED is at E-3

Deadline:

(expired on 2020-09-08 12:00:00)

Let me know if there are any errors

VOTE: ShellyC

If you are town, vote for a PlusJOYED kick

VOTE: PlusJOYED

Unofficial vote count:
Shelly is at E-3 (me, PlusJoy)
PlusJoy is at E-2 (Shelly, Mundivore, 72ofsuit)

[Redados]

i'll be here in 30 mins

And to clarify, so Noraa will not say that I am changing my opinion to suit the majority, here is my preference:

1) Lim Shelly
2) Lim Plusjoy
3) Lim anyone else
4) Self lim
5) No lim.

Noraa, no lim is NOT an option. No lim is very bad for the town and I do not want that. So since we're in the final twelve hours, I may change my vote. I am not sheeping, I'm just trying to get a lim so we don't waste a chance to catch mafia.

I know it's shelly, but really guys, the only option here is to elim me or shelly tonight. And I can prove myself tonight.

I agree with you. Noraa doesn't want me to vote either of you, so I'm explaining why I don't want to do that. Statistically I would rather self lim than no lim. I am only picking from the top two options.

[Redados]

redados doing the whole noble self lim over no lim thing once again

I don't want to self lim. I'm explaining to Noraa why I'm fine with a plusjoy lim after advocating for a shelly lim because I feel like I need to explain it

[Redados]

OMGUS-ing is very anti-town imo

how tf does a total noob know about OMGUS

coincidentally plusjoy has been away. probably strategising in mafia PT

Plusjoy posted four minutes ago

[Redados]

Redados why are you wanting me over plusjoy actually

I find no rational explanation of it other than the AtE

pedit: yeah they just dipped

just AtE

red are u there still

Still here

Noraa is suddenly being very aggressive

very weird change of playstyle

pedit imma shut up for a sec

Nora's playstyle shifted with after my "hammer" on plusjoy. you can trace it right back to there.

[Redados]

I. don't. want. to. vote. for. either. as. of. right. now!!

this doesn't make any sense!!

[Redados]

VC 1.13

shellyc (1)

- PlusJOYED

PlusJOYED (2)

- shellyc, Mundivore

Noraa (1)

- Sirius9121

Redados (1)

- Noraa

Not Voting (4)

- 72offsuit, EchoVision, Redados, Frogsterking

With 9 unfortunate souls alive, you need 5 votes to eliminate.

PlusJOYED is at E-3

Deadline:

(expired on 2020-09-08 12:00:00)

Let me know if there are any errors

VOTE: ShellyC

If you are town, vote for a PlusJOYED kick

VOTE: PlusJOYED

fine i will
VOTE: shelly
unofficial l-2

Unofficial vote count:
Shelly is at E-2 (me, PlusJoy, echo)
PlusJoy is at E-2 (Shelly, Mundivore, 72ofsuit)

[Redados]

I don't want to

Noraa / PlusJoy.

game over I solved it y'all

i solved this game a few pages ago

to repeat what someone has already asked you, why isn't your vote on plusjoy then? we aren't going to lim noraa today.

[Redados]

gimme countdown
its 22:43 rn

Go to first post by JacksonVirgo. Click 'ISO'. Scroll to most recent votecount and view embedded countdown timer. We have eleven hours left right now.

redados

stop posting votecounts lol

they clutter the thread

nah I like them and one per page isn't too bad

[Redados]

red if u want to switch to plus w me i trust u enough
we can end day right now
but i think i’m more comfortable here

I feel the same way as you. Let's check in and like an hour and see if we can't get more votes on Shelly.

[Redados]

I am a lil freaked out yes. I don't like that we must lim one. scum!plus seems more realistic but plus seems more town than shelly

Here's some advice an SE gave me in my first day when I was freaked out about a potential mislim on day one:

IRL I like to make very conservative decisions, ie not gambling, because I don't like

losing

when I could have avoided the loss by not playing at all. I feel the same way about a mislim. I am irrationally afraid of a mislim.

I feel that. Remember in mafia no decision has permanent consequences until the game is over.

[Redados]

I am a lil freaked out yes. I don't like that we must lim one. scum!plus seems more realistic but plus seems more town than shelly

and so I choose to believe in my brain rather than my gut. (brains saying vote plus) (guts saying vote shelly)

The thing is that neither of these is a bad decision. Either way, we're going to lim scum within the next two days, so it'll be okay! We'll make the best decision we have right now with the information we have and if we get it wrong today, we'll just get 'em tomorrow!

[Redados]

Has anyone clicked on Sirius' profile and looked at his occupation and interests? Looks pretty sketch to me...

[Redados]

Now I'm low-key feeling bad sring u U get a free pass to the null category

I'm not offended, that's part of the game, no worries! We're all still learning how to play and part of the process is how to develop reads and figuring out what to do with them. The more you run through that process the better you'll get at it!

[Redados]

Has anyone clicked on Sirius' profile and looked at his occupation and interests? Looks pretty sketch to me...

BAHAHAHA
that's funny but I think its true that might mean he tends to like being scum

I don't think it's AI, I just thought it was funny

[Redados]

Pokemon friend!

you and I probably have a lot in common!

[Redados]

VC 1.13

shellyc (1)

- PlusJOYED

PlusJOYED (2)

- shellyc, Mundivore

Noraa (1)

- Sirius9121

Redados (1)

- Noraa

Not Voting (4)

- 72offsuit, EchoVision, Redados, Frogsterking

With 9 unfortunate souls alive, you need 5 votes to eliminate.

PlusJOYED is at E-3

Deadline:

(expired on 2020-09-08 12:00:00)

Let me know if there are any errors

VOTE: ShellyC

If you are town, vote for a PlusJOYED kick

VOTE: PlusJOYED

fine i will
VOTE: shelly
unofficial l-2

I read through plus's scum meta game from a different site he posted in 860. The main thing I took away was that there was a lot of reliance on AtE from that meta in general and that overall the quality of play was not that low.

Considering plus said they have a degree in computer science with a minor in math (1120) and when they were in highschool they played on that site that relied a lot on AtE I'm thinking it's possible they kept track of the votes and were just giving theater after the e-0.

VOTE: plusJOY

shelly does shelly things as scum and town, so far that doesn't include saccing herself for the pr, I guess we'll have to see though.

Unofficial vote count:
Shelly is at E-2 (me, PlusJoy, echo)
PlusJoy is at E-1 (Shelly, Mundivore, 72ofsuit, Frogsterking)

[Redados]

frogster come join us
it's warm over on shelly

may I ask why shelly is a better option? I am pretty undecided tbh but my brain is telling me it has to be plus and I want to trust my brain just this once

I'm happy with either as a lim. I prefer Shelly because of
1) Plus's appeal to emotion and
2) we can prove plus' role by the nature of town friendly neighbor

[Redados]

frogster come join us
it's warm over on shelly

may I ask why shelly is a better option? I am pretty undecided tbh but my brain is telling me it has to be plus and I want to trust my brain just this once

I'm happy with either as a lim. I prefer Shelly because of
1) Plus's appeal to emotion and
2) we can prove plus' role by the nature of town friendly neighbor

wait so basically bc he ... pocketed u?

No, it was based on how he reacted when he thought he was dead. He thought he was dead and acted like town, so I believe he's town.

Also Noraa, you really should vote me or shellyc. One of us has to be scum, and me/shelly won't be mad at you if you vote us. These uncertain situations is what mafia is all about

This!!

[Redados]

What makes you afraid to hammer? Talk us through it

[Redados]

Between Shelly and Plus, one of them is town and one of them is scum. If you think that Plus is town, then you should vote for Shelly. Your most powerful tool in the game is your vote. The only method we have for getting rid of scum is to vote. Choosing not to use that tool because you're afraid makes sense, but make sure you're acknowledging that so you can better overcome it.

[Redados]

INTRODUCTION AND TIPS

Thanks to Irrelephant11 and others for their contributions to these tips.

Voting, E-x, and Hammers

E-x is a way to convey how far away a player is away from elimination. For example, you should always announce that you are putting someone at E-1 (1 vote away from an elimination) so that someone doesn’t come along and accidentally vote for that player's elimination. This also prevents Mafia-aligned players from coming along and placing the final vote to eliminate (“hammer”) and claiming ignorance about doing so. You may also see E-2 and E-3 (2 votes away from elimination and 3 votes away from elimination, respectively).

Before you hammer a player, state your intent to hammer (usually done in bold) and ask the player to claim their role. This is done to prevent power roles from being eliminated, and can sometimes get Mafia-aligned players to be caught (via counter claiming). It's best to then allow other players to react and discuss the claim before hammering.

[/area]

Here is the general meta behind hammers. I would say, "intent to hammer", and then wait a bit to see how others react. At this point though there's pretty good consensus that we should lim either Shelly or Plusjoy.

I did not declare intent to hammer on Plusjoy the first time that I thought I was hammering. That's not super polite and as you can see, some people didn't like that. You should keep that in mind if you choose not declare intent to hammer.

Lims are by majority. No one will be personally mad at you if you deliver the hammer on a mislim unless you go about it in a sketchy way. Again, lims are by majority. Everyone who voted for a mislim is responsible, and by its nature it will always be at least half of the town.

Mislims will happen, and they're built into the game. The town gets two mislims before they lose. But we learn from mislims, so they're still better for the town than no-lims.

[Redados]

Alright so *declare intent to hammer*
but tbh I don't see the point here too much since he and shelly already claimed roles....

yeah I agree and that's part of why I didn't declare intent to hammer earlier when I thought I was hammering. I wasn't able to articulate that until you said it right now.

[Redados]

wait so I don't have to wait for people to react to it or whatever redados said? T^T I'm just trying to stall

You got a reaction in post 1320!

[Redados]

It's like 3AM AEST so I think it'll be several hours until we see the flip!

[Redados]

I have another critique for you Noraa. Constantly hedging and saying, "I don't want to vote, but..." or "I didn't want to vote for them" is hedging and trying to deflect responsibility. Own your votes. We're not going to give you a pass just because you make a statement like that.

That being said, if PlusJoy flips green, I won't be mad at you. But if I were to be mad at you, those hedging statement wouldn't assuage me, they would just make me angrier that you're not taking responbility.

[Redados]

VOTE: ShellyC
I am struggling to comprehend how you thought this would work today.

Did you "misread" your role card? Is this the worst gambit ever? Dude.

[Redados]

I am ANGRY.

[Redados]

Is E-3 a good place to keep her at? That seems good. We can spend the next six IRL days looking at activity yesterday with the new context.

[Redados]

Let's not put her past E-3 so that she can't self-vote.

[Redados]

Sorry for posting so much, I meant E-2.

[Redados]

VC DAY 1 FINAL

shellyc (3)

- PlusJOYED, Redados, EchoVision

PlusJOYED (5)

- shellyc, Mundivore, 72offsuit, Frogsterking, Noraa

Noraa (1)

- Sirius9121

Redados (1)

- Noraa

With 9 unfortunate souls alive, you need 5 votes to eliminate.

PlusJOYED has been eliminated!

Who was voting for Shelly? It was PlusJOYED, Redados, and EchoVision. I'm feeling like all those guys are town. In fact I am 100% without a doubt sure.

Who was not voting for Shelly? It was Mundivore, Shelly, 72offsuit, Frogsterking, Noraa, and Sirius9121. I feel like the scum lies in this set of players.

We can pack it up guys, I did it! I solved the game! I love voting analysis. Very useful.

[Redados]

I have another critique for you Noraa. Constantly hedging and saying, "I don't want to vote, but..." or "I didn't want to vote for them" is hedging and trying to deflect responsibility. Own your votes. We're not going to give you a pass just because you make a statement like that.

That being said, if PlusJoy flips green, I won't be mad at you. But if I were to be mad at you, those hedging statement wouldn't assuage me, they would just make me angrier that you're not taking responbility.

Ok first off I felt so freaking pressured to hammer. I didn't want to hammer. Thats a fact. But anyways I will get shelly eliminated bc PLUS DESERVES JUSTICE. I will make sure shelly dies for her pretty lies. Plus dw we will get a shelly lim TODAY and you will get the justice that you deserve! Ofc what redados mentioned we do 100% needa be careful of. (insert angriest emoji ever to exist) I will believe my gut from now on plus >:(

Yeah, I was just giving some input. And I did push you to hammer. I was just sharing my thoughts.

This is actually one of the most useless posts I've ever seen -_________________-

You're not wrong

[Redados]

Seriously wanna give you a fat virtual kick to the knee rn for pushing me to hammer, Redados.

I wanted you to vote for Shelly!

frogster come join us
it's warm over on shelly

may I ask why shelly is a better option? I am pretty undecided tbh but my brain is telling me it has to be plus and I want to trust my brain just this once

I'm happy with either as a lim. I prefer Shelly because of
1) Plus's appeal to emotion and
2) we can prove plus' role by the nature of town friendly neighbor

What makes you afraid to hammer? Talk us through it

Between Shelly and Plus, one of them is town and one of them is scum. If you think that Plus is town, then you should vote for Shelly. Your most powerful tool in the game is your vote. The only method we have for getting rid of scum is to vote. Choosing not to use that tool because you're afraid makes sense, but make sure you're acknowledging that so you can better overcome it.

[Redados]

Nora and Sirius were textbook town in yesterday's BW vs BW as far as theory is concerned.

I'm convinced. That means that my limpool for tomorrow (Day Three) is Mundivore, 72, and Frogster.

[Redados]

Frogster what does BW vs BW mean?

[Redados]

Like I said, I'm not upset you voted Plus. Plus or Shelly were both fine votes based on the info we had. I voted for Shelly. I really just wanted you to vote at all, and I was happy that you voted! If no one votes then we don't get any information. There need to be votes so we can 1) learn stuff and 2) lim members of the mafia.

[Redados]

UNVOTE

[Redados]

The whole player list has voted, consider this intent to hammer on ShellyC

[Redados]

*posted

[Redados]

So I think that Shelly has acted pretty scummy today. I'm going to go through each of her posts and explain why each one is, if not scummy, at the very least anti-town behavior. This is going to be a big post and by the end of it you will come to see as I have that Shelly is scum or at the very least a policy lynch based on the large amount of anti-town behavior that she has shown.

prodge

This doesn't even reset the prod timer, as the mod has explained below.

.
Prodging - A naked "prod dodge" does not reset the prod timer. To avoid being prodded/replaced for inactivity, include some game advancing content in your prodges, such as "got prodded; xxxx is still scum."

Honestly, if you're having to prodge, you're not advancing the game. This is anti-town behavior and I SR you.

VOTE: Shellyc

Self-voting is also anti-town behavior. If you're town, it doesn't help the town for you to have a vote. If you're scum, this is pro-town behavior, because it puts us one vote closer to limming scum. So actually, because I am scumreading you, this is actually pro-town behavior.

Props!

time to spam the thread

This is also anti-town behavior. Spamming the thread makes it harder to read, which only serves to help the scum.

Honestly, I'm just flabbergasted that Shelly did that. It feels very throw, I can't imagine a situation that outing yourself as scum day one is worth one miselimination...

when I get to dead thread I'll explain but not now nah

Here, you say that in the dead thread, you'll explain why outing yourself as scum is worth one miselimination. I would almost venture to say that you're admitting to being scum here. For this reason, I scumread you.

I won't let you use these 6 days for scumhunting

Not wanting to use the time for scumhunting is anti-town behavior. This wants me want to vote you/hammer you so that we can end the day and not use these days for scumhunting. Did I mention that I scumread you?

It's not the worst gambit ever. it paid off

I scumread you.

have you considered that there was a mod mistake and plus was actually scum?

This is frankly not a real option and I don't believe it. Frankly I can't believe that you even have the nerve to say this.

I TR everyone in the game at the moment

This is unreasonable and anti-town. If you don't scumread anyone, we are a) not getting good information from you and b) we are not any close to finding scum.

time to find some of my own gifs

PRs admit yourselves now!

Asking PRs to out themselves is anti-town behavior. It helps the mafia to know who to kill at night. But I am going to role reveal as the

Town Friendly Neighbor

because you asked so nicely.

do you realise the longer you leave me up the longer I have to play for scum

I scumread you.

hi SE

why are you suddenly TR-ing frog?

I scumread you.

I'll be in dead chat

remember I did that all for a reason

I think that you are scum scum scum. You are a member of the mafia. You are a werewolf. You are NOT part of the town and you are in fact working AGAINST the common goals of the town.

I have explained all of the reasons that I believe ShellyC to be mafia. For this reason, I will vote her off the island.

DIE MAFIA SCUM!!!!!!!!
VOTE: ShellyC

[Redados]

I TR everyone in the game at the moment

[Redados]

I'm gonna get nightkilled tonight for posts #1349, #1410, and #1411. The mafia can't afford to keep me alive.

pedit: FRICK OFF

[Redados]

My pet peeve is when people change their avatars. It's like as if IRL someone changed their face. Shelly let's take a vow to never change our avatars never ever.

[Redados]

shelly since you're hammered can you tell us whether you're scum or not

[Redados]

is that a yes

[Redados]

damn cause I was gonna unvote if you said you were town

[Redados]

VOTE: UNVOTE

[Redados]

VOTE: UNVOTE

[Redados]

VOTE: UNVOTE

[Redados]

I am town.

no way no way no way
I was right all along?

if Shelly flips town I will vote for you for knowing that they were both town. There's no way you could have known that unless you were the mafia.

[Redados]

I felt like my hammer was impulsive and reckless although it was extraordinarily fun. Should I have let the day play out in its entirety?

[Redados]

I felt like my hammer was impulsive and reckless although it was extraordinarily fun. Should I have let the day play out in its entirety?

too late anyways no point in asking

nah this is a newbie game, so a meta discussion will be helpful for my/our learning, etc

[Redados]

Bah!

You’re dead. Shut up.

Just FYI:

Rules

Gratefully stolen from Plotinus out of laziness.

Important

• Bah posts allowed (limit: 1, free of game related content)

[Redados]

I'm confused as to how shelly could be a rolecop cuz like mafia rolecop and friendly neighbor can't exist together right? mafia rolecop can only be in column a and fn can only be in column b. but also that means shelly was mafia roleblocker from column b. that also means that all we have left is a mafia goon so all hope is not lost? But also dude my read was a mile fucking off. I literally thought shelly was everything but the roleblocker.

rolecop is in column b

[Redados]

@ Mundivore - who is scum?

Hi 72. I came into today prepared to ask you to post more because I'm having a hard time getting a read on you. I looked over your ISO for evidence of your supposed inactivity. Most of your posts were before PLUSjoy and Shellys' role flips, but that makes sense given the proportion of IRL days before and after that hammer.

However after looking over your ISO I am lightly townreading you. So I don't feel like I have to push you as much to share your thoughts. However I would still ask that you post more and share more thoughts today.

[Redados]

@ Mundivore - who is scum?

Hi 72. I came into today prepared to ask you to post more because I'm having a hard time getting a read on you. I looked over your ISO for evidence of your supposed inactivity. Most of your posts were before PLUSjoy and Shellys' role flips, but that makes sense given the proportion of IRL days before and after that hammer.

However after looking over your ISO I am lightly townreading you. So I don't feel like I have to push you as much to share your thoughts. However I would still ask that you post more and share more thoughts today.

I would agree here bc I have a hard time putting reads together in general .... not to mention I have a worse time if they don't talk. But what I was wondering when I saw this post was : Why mundivore? A lil theory just popped up in my head and idk if it's right. it might not even make much sense but anyways here it is: so shelly was rolecop, the description of that role says that they can check people's roles. If shelly and 72 were scum and shelly used her ability, maybe they had determined that mundivore is the pr or something and now they are testing him? idk that was thought off the top of my head sooooo it might not make sense. I can try to explain it differently but that sounded about right when I read it over so ye.

This is a good line of thinking but remember that Shelly died during Day Two. This means that she was able to use her role only once, on night one.

My thinking is that if Shelly used her role night one and found a PR, that person would have been the nightkill during Night 2. This is where we get into murky territory because as town, we should not personally be speculating as to which member of the town has a power role, because then they have an easier time having targets for night kills. So tread carefully!

[Redados]

@ Mundivore - who is scum?

Hi 72. I came into today prepared to ask you to post more because I'm having a hard time getting a read on you. I looked over your ISO for evidence of your supposed inactivity. Most of your posts were before PLUSjoy and Shellys' role flips, but that makes sense given the proportion of IRL days before and after that hammer.

However after looking over your ISO I am lightly townreading you. So I don't feel like I have to push you as much to share your thoughts. However I would still ask that you post more and share more thoughts today.

Who are you scumreading?

I don't want to share them right now. It kind of has to do with that I was talking about in post 1460. I'll still be sharing some individual thoughts as they come up.

[Redados]

I was just offering a possibility that 72 is the last scum bc I feel like specifically asking one person, especially one that barely just replaced in and hasn't talked much, is a bit ... strange

I mean, Mundivore has been in the game as long/longer than I have? And he replaced in on day one and it is now day three? And he hasn't talked much? I think that 72's observations/thoughts here are totally fair.

[Redados]

I was just offering a possibility that 72 is the last scum bc I feel like specifically asking one person, especially one that barely just replaced in and hasn't talked much, is a bit ... strange

I mean, Mundivore has been in the game as long/longer than I have? And he replaced in on day one and it is now day three? And he hasn't talked much? I think that 72's observations/thoughts here are totally fair.

That'd be 'they' not 'he.' Please and thank you in advance.

Acknowledged and my apologies.

Then again Echo also had the purest townie energy ... ever so that might be the reason behind that maybe?

IMO Echo was limmed because he was basically conftown and he wasn't going to get mislimmed. I don't think we're really going to get info out of that.

And actually, we can't just sit around all day doing nothing. So let's start with VOTE: Noraa.

1. I think there's even odds you're scum so I wouldn't be upset to see you go.

2. I want to see what people's reactions to this vote are.

Okay, I'll bite. I think that 72offsuit has to be confirmed town. The reason for this is he was active when Shelly asked PLUSjoy to claim and when Shelly claimed doctor. I think that if 72 were scum, he would have told Shelly that that was an awful idea.

Mundivore was not active during this time, so I think it would still make sense for them to be Shelly's partner. It would also make sense for Noraa to be scum for the same reason since she is new and arguably would not have had the know-how to tell Shelly that it was a bad idea.

I think that one of Noraa's towntells has been her confusion and that if she were scum she would probably have a better idea of what's going on (like thinking there was a mafia roleblocker). However, in Newbie 2019 ShellyC pulled this same type of thing off perfectly; she tricked people into thinking she was noob!town when she actually had a better understanding of stuff than she let on.

I wish that the mafia hadn't killed the conftown people but I guess that's how the game works.

Sirius I go back and forth on.

Here are my preferred lims today in order:

1. Mundivore
2. Noraa
3. Sirius
4. 72
5. Redados

[Redados]

Acknowledged and my apologies.

No hard feelings.

Then again Echo also had the purest townie energy ... ever so that might be the reason behind that maybe?

IMO Echo was limmed because he was basically conftown and he wasn't going to get mislimmed. I don't think we're really going to get info out of that.

Honestly, I feel like I really don't understand why Echo was so confirmed town? I feel like I missed something, could you give me a run down for future reference?

He posted with no filter and I didn't feel like he was hiding anything. A bunch of people were also openly townreading him, which is a NK death sentence for a townie imo

[Redados]

Dude ur likely scum. Pr wouldn't ever out day 2

VOTE: Noraa
It's Day Three.

[Redados]

Actually, I'm happy with my vote where it was. VOTE: Noraa.

I think there's a good chance town has just won. Let me explain:

I'm the Tracker. Night 1, I followed Sirius. No action—unless shelly did both actions Night 1, which risks being totally shut down by a potential Jailer, then Sirius is town. Night 2, I followed Redados. No action, so Redados is conftown. By play, 72 is very likely town.

Scenario 1: Nobody counterclaims me. This makes me conftown. We kill Noraa. If that's somehow not right... well, we'll see. It's probably 72 in this case, I think it's more likely that 72 couldn't reign in a teammate than that scum would risk getting both their kill and their rolecop read eaten by a potential Jailer. However, I'm pretty sure it's Noraa at this point—I misremembered, and thought that my Night 1 action was on 72, not Sirius, hence my not getting to this sooner.

Scenario 2: I get counterclaimed. It's 50/50 between me and the person who counterclaims. We have room for one miselim, so we just kill both and Town wins 100% of the time.

I admit that this has a failure condition, but with three FoS's on me already, I think claiming now isn't too aggressive anyways. Worst case scenario still involves dodging me getting miselim'd—the only way town should kill me after this claim is if scum counter-claims.

Why did you push for PLUSjoy lim if you knew that ShellyC's claim was impossible?

[Redados]

I thought Sirius was the PR because he knew that Shelly was scum on day one. I thought they were either scum or PR. Knowing that they're not the PR makes them look a little more sketch because of the behavior that's already been outlined in addition to the fact that he refused to vote for either Shelly or PLUSjoy on day one.

[Redados]

Noraa why would you jump to the conclusion that Mundivore is scum after he outs when you can wait for a counterclaim? That was super sketch to just go "ur scum".

[Redados]

NORAA IS AT E-1 FYI

[Redados]

Actually, I'm happy with my vote where it was. VOTE: Noraa.

I think there's a good chance town has just won. Let me explain:

I'm the Tracker. Night 1, I followed Sirius. No action—unless shelly did both actions Night 1, which risks being totally shut down by a potential Jailer, then Sirius is town. Night 2, I followed Redados. No action, so Redados is conftown. By play, 72 is very likely town.

Scenario 1: Nobody counterclaims me. This makes me conftown. We kill Noraa. If that's somehow not right... well, we'll see. It's probably 72 in this case, I think it's more likely that 72 couldn't reign in a teammate than that scum would risk getting both their kill and their rolecop read eaten by a potential Jailer. However, I'm pretty sure it's Noraa at this point—I misremembered, and thought that my Night 1 action was on 72, not Sirius, hence my not getting to this sooner.

Scenario 2: I get counterclaimed. It's 50/50 between me and the person who counterclaims. We have room for one miselim, so we just kill both and Town wins 100% of the time.

I admit that this has a failure condition, but with three FoS's on me already, I think claiming now isn't too aggressive anyways. Worst case scenario still involves dodging me getting miselim'd—the only way town should kill me after this claim is if scum counter-claims.

Assuming no counter claim appears, I really like this logic. I think we should vote for Noraa today and Sirius tomorrow. I'm fine with taking an L to scum!72. I like this a lot and I look forward to seeing if there's a counterclaim.

I'll start. When I claimed to be the town friendly neighbor in post 1410, I was

lying

. I'm a vanilla townie and I do not counterclaim.

[Redados]

NORAA IS AT E-1 FYI

No one should hammer until we give everyone a chance to counterclaim.

[Redados]

I really am not sure what to say rn cuz I feel like it doesn't matter what I say, if people believe mundivore, they will eliminate me today. I mean yes I'm not that helpful, don't have the greatest reads, and prolly won't be able to live to the end of this game anyways. But town will be wasting a lim and tmrw the stakes will be even higher than today.

Are you going to counterclaim?

[Redados]

Noraa why would you jump to the conclusion that Mundivore is scum after he outs when you can wait for a counterclaim? That was super sketch to just go "ur scum".

bc I feel like at a time like this, our pr would think more carefully. Ig its just cuz when you are the one getting limmed and you know very clearly that u r town aligned, it just sucks and u feel a wee bit ig backstabbed?

do you understand the logic? What Mundivore is saying is that assuming 72 is town then we win the game. Because of that, it's worth it for him to claim because he believes 72 to be town.

[Redados]

Noraa why would you jump to the conclusion that Mundivore is scum after he outs when you can wait for a counterclaim? That was super sketch to just go "ur scum".

bc I feel like at a time like this, our pr would think more carefully. Ig its just cuz when you are the one getting limmed and you know very clearly that u r town aligned, it just sucks and u feel a wee bit ig backstabbed?

do you understand the logic? What Mundivore is saying is that assuming 72 is town then we win the game. Because of that, it's worth it for him to claim because he believes 72 to be town.

Following Mundivore's logic, if we lim you today and you're town, we still win the game! And it's all good! And there's no need for you to. fret.
Following Mundivore's logic, if we lim you today and you're scum, we (town) win the game and you lose the game. In that scenario there is indeed need for you to fret.

So I'm scumreading you a bit because you're fretting.

[Redados]

Noraa, if you're scum, your win condition right now is to make a really good case that 72 is scum imo.

[Redados]

Ok so we have Redados, Sirius, 72, Mundivore, and me.
Y'all kill me today. Someone else is nk'ed
the next day
you have Redados, Sirius, 72, and Mundivore excluding the nk'ed one
the next day
you kill sirius. someone else is nk'ed.
and then ur left with scum and one vt

1. Let's assume that Mundivore is NKd because he's the tracker. We lim you today. You're scum, we win.
2. Let's assume that Mundivore is NKd because he's the tracker. We lim you today. You're town and we move to LIMLO
-it will be me, Sirius, and 72 left. I'm conftown, I've been cleared by the tracker. 72 and I vote for Sirius.
2a. Sirius is scum, we win
2b. Sirius is town, we lose, scum!72 wins.

[Redados]

Cuz sirius and i arent scum. I am 99% sure this is true

So you're saying that Scenario 2b. from my post 1497 is going to play out?

[Redados]

Assuming that there's an equal chance of Noraa, Sirius, and 72 being scum, this gives us a 66% chance to win which frankly are odds that I like. And I think that those odds are higher based on the play of Noraa, Sirius, and 72.

[Redados]

And I don't like how just bc u were cleared ur just like oh haha if y'all die its fine y tf r y'all fretting? like dude pls try to understand that none of us were cleared so our perspective is vastly different from yours. One mislim means that scum is more likely to win. If y'all could guarantee my death brought town success, I would gladly die. But u can't and all ik is that my mislim will just mean one free nk for the scum.

I'm cleared if you believe that Mundivore is the tracker. Mundivore is the tracker and he followed me night two. There was a kill night two. He followed me and I didn't use a role on anyone. Because of this, if you assume that Mundivore is the tracker, I am conftown.

[Redados]

Assuming that there's an equal chance of Noraa, Sirius, and 72 being scum, this gives us a 66% chance to win which frankly are odds that I like. And I think that those odds are higher based on the play of Noraa, Sirius, and 72.

66% chance. the odds of scum winning is always low. they literally start out 2v7. 66% doesn't mean anything

66% chance assuming here is an equal chance of Noraa, Sirius, and 72 being scum. I think that there is a higher than 66% chance that scum lies between you and Sirius. For this reason, I am very happy with the odds of success using the proposal suggested by Mundivore.

[Redados]

And Noraa, you're the better lim today than Sirius because Sirius didn't perform a kill on N1.

[Redados]

And I don't like how just bc u were cleared ur just like oh haha if y'all die its fine y tf r y'all fretting? like dude pls try to understand that none of us were cleared so our perspective is vastly different from yours. One mislim means that scum is more likely to win. If y'all could guarantee my death brought town success, I would gladly die. But u can't and all ik is that my mislim will just mean one free nk for the scum.

I'm cleared if you believe that Mundivore is the tracker. Mundivore is the tracker and he followed me night two. There was a kill night two. He followed me and I didn't use a role on anyone. Because of this, if you assume that Mundivore is the tracker, I am conftown.

I somewhat believe he's tracker and that's why I removed my vote. Ik ur conftown and believe it but im telling u that u should try and take a look at the situation from town Sirius and Noraa's perspectives! My reads have been a lil off throughout the game so I will just tentatively say sirius is a vt bc that's basically what I think he is.

Okay, I see what you're saying. From your perspective, if you know that you're town, that leaves us with a 50% chance between Sirius and 72.

[Redados]

ALSO the scum would be stupid to let tracker!Mundivore get to LIMLO, so they can't kill me tonight. Noraa if you're town then I'll do a super meta dive over night to try and meta read 72. I already spectated his scum!game Newbie 2015 kitten.

[Redados]

I give up and if town loses, all I have to say is : y'all deserve it for mislimming thrice(plus, shelly, and whoever y'all lynch tmrw)

I think that your attitude is pretty sketch, dude.

[Redados]

Sirius, what are your thoughts on Mundivore's plan? Are you going to counterclaim?

[Redados]

I give up and if town loses, all I have to say is : y'all deserve it for mislimming thrice(plus, shelly, and whoever y'all lynch tmrw)

typo apologies I meant (plus, me, and whoever y'all lunch tmrw

*lynch
ok im really annoyed rn
I'll check back in an hour or so
if im hammered by then, sucks to suck and that's that. I wish y'all the best of luck and hope u choose wisely tmrw

Why are you annoyed?? If we lim town!Noraa I still believe that we win the game.

[Redados]

I give up and if town loses, all I have to say is : y'all deserve it for mislimming thrice(plus, shelly, and whoever y'all lynch tmrw)

typo apologies I meant (plus, me, and whoever y'all lunch tmrw

*lynch
ok im really annoyed rn
I'll check back in an hour or so
if im hammered by then, sucks to suck and that's that. I wish y'all the best of luck and hope u choose wisely tmrw

Why are you annoyed?? If we lim town!Noraa I still believe that we win the game.

dude ur whole 66% chance of winning just went down the drain but alright. 50% is not at all high imo but I mean think what u want. town's fate will be in ur hands once scum kills mundivore. you will be left with sirius and 72. I would've much preferred we found the scum today but that prolly isn't happening so all I can do is wish u the best of luck tmrw. anyways imma go break and yeah

Mundivore has laid out their info. Please explicitly say who you would like us to lim and when. After your break, def take your break.

[Redados]

Also, from MY perspective it's 66%+, from town!Nora's perspective it's 50%. I hope you can understand why I'm thinking this way.

[Redados]

Sirius, what are your thoughts on Mundivore's plan? Are you going to counterclaim?

No counterclaims.
Tracker's plan says that I was the N1 target and the N2 target was Red. This makes Red, Sirius and Mundi clear.

We lim Noraa today.
We lim 72o today if Noraa isn't scum.

You're not cleared, Shelly could have made the kill and done rolecop action N1. And to be clear I will vote you off the island tomorrow before I vote 72 off.

[Redados]

Sirius, what are your thoughts on Mundivore's plan? Are you going to counterclaim?

No counterclaims.
Tracker's plan says that I was the N1 target and the N2 target was Red. This makes Red, Sirius and Mundi clear.

We lim Noraa today.
We lim 72o today if Noraa isn't scum.

You're not cleared, Shelly could have made the kill and done rolecop action N1. And to be clear I will vote you off the island tomorrow before I vote 72 off.

As a Scum mindset, would you rather:

1. Risk Scum getting no kills and no checks
2. Take a 1 in 8 chance that the other scum is found

I don’t follow.

[Redados]

Ah I get what you’re saying. Sorry.

[Redados]

Yeah I'm feeling that of [Noraa, Sirius, 72], Noraa is most likely to be scum here. Especially with how she's acting. Hopefully 72 will be able to indicate here soon whether or not he is counterclaiming.

[Redados]

Good game everyone!

[Redados]

also great game-winning tracking and claiming by Mundivore! And great YOLOing by Sirius!

I have some questions.

@Noraa - did you not want to vote for PLUS/Shelly one day one because you didn't want to lim scum (goes against win condition) and you didn't want to lim town (because it doesn't get you town cred)?
@Mundivore, can you talk me through your voting motivations on day one?
@Sirius, can you talk me through your voting motivations on day one?

I'm excited to see the scum PT after Noraa releases

[Redados]

I'm also excited to see the dead thread

[Redados]

I think it's funny that Shelly did both the kill and the copping N1 so Sirius was NOT cleared

[Redados]

Wait I scrolled down and read the rest, Noraa did the kill so Sirius WAS cleared

[Redados]

I wouldn't have voted 72!