Mini Theme 2162: Wherewolf [Game over | Village win]

[Glitch]

Hello all. I'll read from start shortly.

[Glitch]

Reading from beginning. Quoting and responding as I go.

But with not all roles in the game, and as far as I understood with no reveal upon death, it might be better to wait at first to get some more nights of information.

This is not pro-village. There is no motivation at all for town to try and keep WWs behind the curtain of the C/NC. C/NC is a great way to pressure them and out them without having to reveal

any

town PRs except the corrupt ones, which need to be outed anyway. Advocating not to reveal that information is anti-town. Scum points.

Unless anyone claim corrupt , we need to asume that the everyone besides the Skies are non corrupt.

Please help me understand this. I don't understand why we should assume that everyone besides the claimed sinner is not corrupt when we know for sure there is an entire faction of corrupts lined up in the playerlist.

yes, so when you get a non-corrupt result you'll see it was a waste

A non corrupt result is never a waste as it proves you're telling the truth
It's suspicious to me that you're describing it as such. We can't just take at face value you're not a wolf or we're gonna all be gobbled up!

townpoints
If elements is scum, scum!Skies would not say this. No reason to call that out when you could just let someone else handle it.

Are you claiming priest or am i missing something?

stop rolefishing.

townpoints for Taylor, eyebrow raised at fuzzy

I'll volunteer to be checked.

Looking at the deadline, we have a little less than 48 hours to deadline. I think we should start talking about who we want on the ballot. The talk about claiming and targeting is informative, but I know I'm used to longer deadlines on this site, so I don't want to lose the forest for the trees. We should be talking about the ballot in addition to the other stuff.

I don't know if I should SR this or TR this. It's a little fishy to me. Could ww be ballsy enough to volunteer to be checked knowing that if they volunteer it, their own publicized innocence and faith in town keeps town from suspecting them enough not to investigate them? Is this some sort of work around to not get checked? Or is this genuine? Idk which way to take this. Null but eyes on Gal.

town may have an advantage if we keep it quiet and just vote for who we think is scummiest. on the other hand, this is probably really bad since scum can simply rig the ballot by coordinating

Per the ruleset, scum does not have daytalk and their nighttalk is limited to only player names. I wouldn't be too concerned about that.

I don’t know anything about all this claiming and whatnot, but anybody that doesn’t put their hand up to be checked is a wolf.

This is so shallow. Everyone is going to say they're okay with being checked after seeing how that element pressure went down.

--

Page 6 - A50 vs Elements

A50 needs to calm down and take a chill pill but 100% of what A50 is saying is accurate here and unless something comes up on the next two pages Elements needs to go on ballot.

A50
We dont know Spicers tole... it could be a town helpful role. I hate to nuke a role that we do not know about. I dont think we should assume there is a defecror... we should be careful that there
is one. Saying that Garlon could be a defector

Elemental-
You soft claimed then danced around the role. Your actions are suspicious. Tell us why we should not ballot you?I really hope you are not the cop bc uf thats the case the town has just lost.


if we dont have a clear pick close to deadline we should ballot Skies. IMHO

This kinda pings me. Everything you wrote here is the easiest argument you could have made. A50 already made all these points on Elemental and talking about not elimming my slot because Spicer was inactive is a super easy lamist move.

i think we should put a50 on the ballot. that whole exchange i was thinking STOP MAKING ELEMENTS OUT, and a50 kept pushing and pushing for a claim. thats really not a good look.

I've leaned town on Taylor so far. But I don't get why the A50 push on elements was bad. Can you please clarify why it's a bad move on A50's part other than just how worked up he was?

i also think we should stop speculating about elements' role, and probably give elements a pass, at least for today. if elements survives to endgame itll be pretty obvious that elements is scum. no need to waste an elim on what is prolly a town pr shitting the bed

Hold up, why would elements surviving to endgame make him scum? What if he's town and wws leave him alive so he's their day target for an elim late game? This thought process doesn't follow through all the way. Are there

other

reasons you don't want us to ballot elements?

I guess I should just say now that I am corrupt. My win conditions are a little difficult, but doable. As far as who to put on ballot I accidentally did an iso of A50 and my gosh man are you always this emotional? It could be wolf theatre, but actually no I like Elements; seems the most town. Anybody that trolls like that has to be town.

what a yikes follow-up on Elements my guy lol.

I'm probably putting Italiano on the ballot. I don't really care for mechanics tbf, I'm just gonna do hunting like I usually do.

A50 was a TR to begin with and then he addressed the disaster of 159 and it just solidified him on my TRs list. I think Italiano vs Elements on ballot would be good. I was leaning towards being favorable of the idea of Elements vs Skies but the more I think through it, it just feels like we're lining up an Elements elim because no one is actually going to vote Skies, so we're just trying to lock in an Elements elimination in the Accusations phase. But if we put 2 players who are looking scummy in the ballot they can fight it out for five days while we grill them and we can have a good, genuine, and not-forced vote. I'm still not all the way caught up yet but I'm close and this is the direction I'm leaning.

That said. After a quick ISO of you, I wouldn't be opposed to having you on the ballot either. You joined the wrong game if you "don't really care for mechanics," and, "just want to hunt like usual," and then openly wanting to sheep A50's mechanics understand you announced in 160. The best way to catch scum in this setup is understanding and using the mechanics of the game because flips will not be announced. When we kill someone off their alignment is not announced so we have to work carefully and intentionally here, and your attitude regarding game mechanics don't seem pro-village.

-if he is the sinner then either him or Skies is lying and we need to execute one of them asap

If she's lying she's a great scum player, I have gotten real townie vibes from her the whole game. I'm not feeling her as the pick for the ballot.

Why should elements not claim? His disastrous soft claim has been a mess.

I'm NC. Anyone left who hasn't claimed C or NC needs to do so asap. I'll need to go back and check to see if anyone has been hiding behind that curtain. I pitch

Elements vs Italiano

as our ballot today. I think we have a great chance of killing off scum if we run both of them up and grill them for five days. The scum will have to crack under the pressure. Secondary choices would include insomnia and Fuzzy but I would much prefer the former.

[Glitch]

Ok...Am getting this straight you prefer Skies over Italian. It sounds like you not going to pick sky bc you do not think he will get enough votes so you are choosing Italian instead. Is this right or am I misunderstanding you?

No not at all. I prefer Italian over skies because I TR skies and feel like Skies vs Elements is a manipulation of the ballot phase. Ballot should be scummiest vs scummiest unless we have 100% caught scum. If we have caught scum then let's do the towniest vs caught scum that way we force the elimination because no true town would vote for the towniest and therefore the WWs can't throw the ballot phase in their favor like they may if we line up two scummies and one is town. They could work that somehow. But if we put one in ballot that we all know and agree isn't the elim that day because we have caught scum we have manipulated the ballot for us instead of the wolves.

All the said, while elements is scummy AF he isn't caught and confirmed. I'm pretty confident there is scum between elements and italiano so if we run the both in ballot and grill them hardcore then the scum will hopefully crack under pressure and we can get a clear picture of who to elim.

[Glitch]

Why aren't you claiming Italiano?

[Glitch]

Why are you asking A50 to claim???

[Glitch]

Sooo we can elim Italian and possibly get scum or possibly lose our elim tomorrow. Or we can elim elements and possibly get scum.

Question is whether or not Italian is just playing jester poorly or if he is caught scum and jester was his only way to play it off. I still say we run the both up and grill them. Elements may be a safer elim for the town but more time under the microscope for both would help resolve that more.

[Glitch]

Pine what 2 players do you want to see on ballot?

[Glitch]

If Italiano is Jester why waste today's elim on him and tomorrow's elim on no one. We don't have to kill the jester to win. Just leave him alone and ignore him the rest of the game and elim of actual scum.

But if he's actually wild hiding behind this jester facade then we are in trouble. Pine and Taylor, you two seem oddly confident that he is jester. Pine even more so because you don't want him on ballot. That's odd. If you're that confident he's not scum are you scum with him? If we flip him today should we flip you tomorrow, and if you're right about him being jester you're safe, but if he's scum then you go down too? Since you're so confident he's not scum. It's odd to me. I am not one to line up elims like that and of course anything can change in a single post. Bit with the mechanics we know about and how off it is that you dont want Italiano on ballot you have pinged me quite a bit.

Skies my bad on the wrong pronoun. I'll fix that sorry!

212 and 213. Elements blaming A50 for his own claim disaster bolsters my SR. Ballot this.

[Glitch]

A50 - Who would you suggest putting on the ballot if not Italiano?

[Glitch]

Do you have any better suggestions/cases?

If we are taking the claimed Jester out of the equation? I could maybe be persuaded to Gal but need to go back and check that again. I still want Elements on ballot. Bard claim is weak at best and 82 is not a convincing crumb. If he wanted to crumb his role he could have done a clear job but that just looks like caught scum trying to use a coincidental post as a crumb.

My next choice after elements and Italiano would be because I really dont like the anti town attitude in 159 and 160. Honestly as long as elements is on ballot I probably will vote there but the ballot phase will be important for confirming that and putting the secondary on the ballot on trial. What's your take when you ISO insomnia? Do you see enough reason to ballot him with some pressure? I feel like putting anyone on ballot is going to reveal heavily AI content from them, and insomnia seems like a good candidate there. I would hate to judge off just one incident and then I'm wrong but balloting him could help us sort him further. It's just so far the limited content is 159 and 160 that is scummy and the rest is NAI to me so ballot seems fair.

[Glitch]

It's a good idea unless we can't get enough people on the same page about what 2 are on ballot and we are running out of time. My current vote is on Elements and unless something happens in the next few hours before deadline it's staying parked there. I have every intention of eliminating that slot unless something changes. The second on ballot I would love to see Italiano but it doesn't seem like the town is unanimous enough on that to push it to assigned votes. Who would be on board with assigned votes, and if so, are you opposed to Italiano as second slot and who would you rather see? We need to pick up the pace because we are almost out of time.

[Glitch]

I'd join assigning slots for Elements as slot 1 and any of the following for slot 2 - Italiano, Gal, insomnia, Fuzzy

[Glitch]

Ebwop sorry
Assigning votes I guess I meant to say*

[Glitch]

Glitch - what makes 159 and 160 anti-town and why is that wolfy as opposed to not just...anti-town??

I don't see the difference. Your lazy attitude toward game mechanics is very off when we're playing a game where the best hunting to be done is through game mechanics. Sheeping. Lazy. Not interested in doing the work of a townie. That's scum indicative to me.

[Glitch]

I'd join assigning slots for Elements as slot 1 and any of the following for slot 2 - Italiano, Gal, insomnia, Fuzzy

I'll veto Elements from that list on the basis he can be confirmed by tomorrow.

If I could avoid placing Inso/Fuzzy on the ballot too I would. If I'm not I'm not too misguided, I'd say it's between WLC/Galron & YOU (Glitch).

My suspicion of Glitch stems from 177 in which he states this:

But with not all roles in the game, and as far as I understood with no reveal upon death, it might be better to wait at first to get some more nights of information.

This is not pro-village. There is no motivation at all for town to try and keep WWs behind the curtain of the C/NC. C/NC is a great way to pressure them and out them without having to reveal

any

town PRs except the corrupt ones, which need to be outed anyway. Advocating not to reveal that information is anti-town. Scum points.

But doesn't follow up. never mentions WLC again, and doesn't include him on the ballot candidacy!

He also is fence-sitting the read on Galron on that same post. Galron has now probably blown his cover, so that is why Glitch decided to include him on his lost of candidates on the ballot, but we know both "main" Wolf team members know the others; including the Defector, so they probably won't vote him off.

I am calling for the Town now to put Glitch and WLC on the ballot, as I am confident enough that's the correct solve. We need to collectively make sure to not vote outside these two, so if the Wolf team all vote someone else we still have one of them at least.

Note that Wolves do NOT have daytalk, so it's gonna be a shot in the dark for them to collectively vote the same person. Add to that the Jester. I am willing to strike a bargain with Italiano here: Join us.. making it possible for us to go 4 on Glitch and 4 on WLC, thus guarateeing both are on the ballot. 6-2-1 tomorrow and we do Galron, thus 5-1-1 on D3, at which point we can eliminate Italiano and have it at 3-1-0 on D4.

P.S. This is your best option, Italiano. Scum won't shoot you because they want to hunt down the TPRs. If you don't accept, then we can still try to eliminate WLC/Glitch is succession to win the game without you.

Please announce your decision ASAP.

@Town: Now who is nomibating WLC and who is nominating Glitch?

You are my top TR right now so I put a lot of weight into your reads. I'm willing to roll with Galron on ballot and wouldn't oppose WLC but WLC literally just doesn't have enough content yet to sort him. He's got four posts, only one after my catchup post. While he scored some scum points off the bat, the lineup of others with more scumpoints is still greater. ISO WLC and see how little there is to go on.

Re: Elements proving themselves tomorrow --> This is an interesting take. If someone else is going to CC bard we need them to come out ASAP. If not then I am willing to wait on Elements another day. My primary focus would then shift to Italiano because I don't really believe the whole jester gambit. Releasing a ballot on elements I would prefer Italiano and insomnia, but I would compromise and move my vote to either of them or Galron too.

[Glitch]

I'm trying to figure out why you would say that just because I'm not engaging into mechanics than that makes me lazy and therefore scum, when I have plenty of other posts and thoughts on the game that you're ignoring. Mainly the fact that you wanted Italiano balloted in that post and I'm the one that twisted the key into that engine.

In this game, spending time understanding the mechanics and game setup is the best way to catch scum. A lack of interest in that seems scummy. You asked who you were sheeping; but you clearly and distinctly said you werent gonna bother understanding mechanics and just roll with whatever A50 said. I get A50 is really townie but that doesn't resolve each player of all their town duties. Unless they don't have town duties.

Your argument back at me feels pretty OMGUSy.

[Glitch]

I'm trying to figure out why you would say that just because I'm not engaging into mechanics than that makes me lazy and therefore scum, when I have plenty of other posts and thoughts on the game that you're ignoring. Mainly the fact that you wanted Italiano balloted in that post and I'm the one that twisted the key into that engine.

In this game, spending time understanding the mechanics and game setup is the best way to catch scum. A lack of interest in that seems scummy. You asked who you were sheeping; but you clearly and distinctly said you werent gonna bother understanding mechanics and just roll with whatever A50 said. I get A50 is really townie but that doesn't resolve each player of all their town duties. Unless they don't have town duties.

Your argument back at me feels pretty OMGUSy.

I never once said I wouldn't get involved in mechanics, you're painting it out to be like that. I just don't know if it's because you're a wrong villager or a wolf yet.

One thing I know for sure is that you aren't doing a good job of reading my posts. I said I'd take it if A50 were cop checked so that I wouldn't have to bother with mechanics and follow his mechanical sage advice.

We probably won't fit well in this game together because we think differently of the game on a fundamental level so I won't really reply to you anymore unless I think you're a villager. For now I think you're moderately wolfy and discussing with you isn't really productive for anyone.

Fair counter point. I'm never beyond being corrected and I'm willing to put a bit of faith in this here since it isn't a massively strong read; I can choose to believe that I misinterpreted you or took it to a conclusion you didn't mean. But the last paragraph pisses me off on a personal level and is childish. It comes across as, "I'm not gonna talk to you until you get on my level." That's just uncalled for. A major part of this game is interacting with people you're not on the same wavelength with.

[Glitch]

I'll ask again, if I were provable Town and IVD were provable Jester, which elimination would win us the game?

This question just feels off. I can't put my finger on it but this feels manipulative. If you have a gambit or a way to figure out what's best for the town, can you stop stalling and just do it?

[Glitch]

I won't be role claiming. I'm going to check that I'm ready to move on.

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[Glitch]

If A50 isn't Town, he's probably the Madman, but I doubt there's a Madman if there's a Jester.

(...)

Glitch, Insomnia and Pine are suspicious.

Can you elaborate on these please? Why does madman mean no jester and why are Inso, Pine, and I sus to you?

[Glitch]

To both players on the ballot: if you were not on ballot and your "opponent" was the only one able to be eliminated today, would you support their elimination or prefer no kill?

I know nobody can vote for no elim but I am asking a hypothetical to gauge your read on the other player.

[Glitch]

@Glitch: Do you mind getting checjed tonight by the Clairvoyant? Yes or no, please. No ifs/buts or addendum (You can have that in a separate post if you like, just not in your response to this simple question. Thank you)

No, I don't mind. I have nothing to hide.

I need to go back to the role list and see what Galron is implying.

[Glitch]

I need to go back to the role list and see what Galron is implying.

Let me know what you get from it.

Nothing really. In reality it just means he isn't seducer but I was thinking maybe him saying that was implying his own claim. I was wrong. Still solidifying roles in my mind here.

[Glitch]

Non Votes

Italian
Garlon

Votes

A50- Garlon
FL99-Garlon
Pine-Garlon
Taylor- Garlon
BrightSkies- Garlon

Man With No Name(Garlon?)
Insomnia- Italian (?)
Element(?)
Gitz (?)

I'm on Garlon and have been checked ready to move forward for a while. I don't have anything to add and am ready to move onto the next phase. I got prodded but I just don't really have anything else to add.

Eliminating jester just doesn't seem ideal and if he's a wolf I think we will figure that out pretty soon.

[Glitch]

I tried to figure out different ways to drop yall a hint yesterday but couldn't figure out how to without being crazy obvious. Y'all have put me in a very difficult place.

All I can say is that I was not the target of the Clairvoyant last night. There's more that can be said but it's best to remain unseen.

[Glitch]

Ok.. I see what you are saying. Got confused. I think I was over thinking it.

why do you think WLC is the best choice over the other players.....to be checked.

Well thats disappointing. I was hoping some of y'all would pick up the hints to drop it and leave it alone but I have no choice now.

I am the clairvoyant. I did not want to claim because I will now be their biggest target. I'll be an easy elimination as well if a wolf CCs me. It would be worth losing a wolf to boot out my slot unless there are only 2 wolves and Garlon truly was one. I did not want to lead a charge on my target using my claim so I could stay under the radar but I don't have much of a choice here.

I had hoped to get my Corrupt result target balloted by convincing y'all to leave me alone with the hint that I was not checked, and then tunneling the scum until he was balloted. I targeted insomnia and got a corrupt result.

I know this is super WIFOMy and I am so frustrated with how this has turned out after literally the first night but y'all targeted me yesterday and there was no way to talk my way out of it without looking scummy. I don't want to die because I'm the biggest asset to our team. So I investigated insomnia who I genuinely did not know the alignment of. I SR the slot for a while yesterday but then went null on it. Had I gotten a NC result I would have said nothing until insomnia got balloted later on if we reached that point. But it got a bit more complex than that.

Votes should be on inso. My vote will remain parked there and ready to move forward. I just hope for this town's sake that y'all will move on from this.

[Glitch]

I have never played a game of mafia quite like this y'all. This is such a different set up and I've gotten completely entangled in my own lie. I have spent all day trying every which way to get out of this but after replacing in, I completely forgot there was a N0 and in doing so have totally failed in creating my own defense.

I knew the only way to get out of my night check coming back as corrupt was to claim clairvoyant and that it was crazy risky. I could have continued trying but the N0 discussion has me 100% caught and it is better that I give no fake info on N0 so as not to incriminate my partner or make a townie look more townie with whatever fake info I would come up with.

Consider this my scum claim. I'll go down with honor. I know there is no way out of this anymore and I'll be confirmed scum when I die since you'll still get clairvoyant results. So it is better for me to scum claim now and no longer provide any reads or opinions because I don't want to benefit the town through y'alls speculation after my death of anything I say from here on.

GG >:)

[Glitch]

wow.. did not expect that ww would give up so easily

There is no way out about it. I literally spent all day contemplating how to weasel my way out of it but there is nothing I can conjure up to get out of my N0 blunder without straight up fueling a town victory. It is best for me to exit after that check nailed me and there was no other way out. Wish I could have done better.

[Glitch]

lunch is a safe word that no one should have qualms about. you eat lunch during the day, and sometimes it results in death. it conveniently starts with L so L-1, lylo, etc still all work.

This is genius and will be my new word from now on, especially when scum is called wolves. Ha

[Glitch]

I’m ethically opposed to collectively dictating what PRs should so.

On with the elimination.

This tells me Pine must be the Clairvoyant or some sort of town PR.

Your daily dose of WIFOM is enjoyably sponsored by me!

[Glitch]

Glitch....
Your points are pretty mute at this point

Then you are reading a wolf much too shallow.

[Glitch]

- Hey Glitch
How are you doing...... Hope its not too bad there in Houston . Sending thoughts and prayers from here in San Antonio.

Thank you! We got close to flooding but are thankful it didn't hit our house. We are adopting our 14 year old foster son on Thursday and are so excited. We were worried the floods might close the courts so hopefully tomorrow we will have a chance for the city to drain out. Keeping our hopes up!!

[Glitch]

Sorry I vanished. Should have announced VLA but forgot to. We adopted our foster son this week and have had family in town since then. It's been crazy.

I think the best target for the clairvoyant to check tonight is me. It would be great!

[Glitch]

Lol no diapers for us. My kid is 14.

And I am well aware Taylor that I have scum claimed. It is not a prod dodge to stand by thinking the best move moving forward tonight is for the clairvoyant to check me. You should know and understand that I would think.