Mini Normal 2163: MItGBSMoD [game over!]

[teacher]

Ok starting off if teacher flips town. Then no way does oskuka/Ydrasse have more than one scum in it.

Cant see two scum jumping on teacher pushingr after he had gained a 3rd vote so early. Scum tends not to push town wagons that high early. Let alone two.

I mean they’re probably not both scum but this is still a stretch imo

I actually agree with the logic and find lolwagon joinership mildly town indicative. And saying it/stretching too. Meaning bob gets some points for making this comment.

[teacher]

VOTE: innocentvillager is obvscumming

I have mixed feelings about this vote

Coming in without any context whatsoever - still two pages back - I’d say this is omgussy

[teacher]

that has 80% accuracy rate

Ok, is like a truthiness thing or actual data, because I gotta day it sounds hella made up.

[teacher]

Pleasure, Ydrasse - any reason to throw me a hi (have we played before?). Don’t recognize the name but look forward, etc.

[teacher]

VOTE: innocentvillager is obvscumming

I have mixed feelings about this vote

Coming in without any context whatsoever - still two pages back - I’d say this is omgussy

there isn’t a ton of context in the next two pages either

i said mixed feelings not bad feelings, so it’s more of a neutral statement than you’re making it seem

pedit: he’s either trolling or he’s that boneheaded town-type who thinks they’re an absolutely sick scum hunter and just provides free town equity

It’s hard to misportray a statement when you directly quote it, ya? I just found it omgussy, even if it is neutrally phrased.

[teacher]

can you tell me how you are not just basically saying anyone giving reads in rvs is probably town

Same way i pegged all the scum in poe of 5 players in my last game. After repping into my slot only the day before.

Oh god not another ego warrior.

[teacher]

how do you feel about the teacher wagon

In what way is this a Sergio us question on page two of any game.

[teacher]

Serious*

[teacher]

Cool, thanks for count Dat. Now I can burn it with fire for ditching the last game. VOTE: Menalque

[teacher]

teacher this is your opportunity to admit which person bussed you, get your revenge on your partner

Can I claim Swiftie as a partner, if only because I think the namesake is supercool

[teacher]

Gotta be honest that entry felt self conscious/awkward but none of y’all who have history are reacting to it - is it standard?

[teacher]

On excellent authority, you pleb, not in, unless you’ve had too much of the red again.

[teacher]

Gotta be honest that entry felt self conscious/awkward but none of y’all who have history are reacting to it - is it standard?

which one

Shelly forced RVS vote.

[teacher]

Why can’t it be both? You are definitely slow. And there’s a lot of jabber right now.

[teacher]

Notice that teacher has disappeared since my arrival. It is because he knows that what I say is true, and the curse of the alignments still rests upon us!

Actually it’s cause 8pm is my kids bedtime. Has been for the last 8 years. Wondering how much longer I’m going to keep getting away with that.

[teacher]

i agree with all of this so Shelly is town

Scum PT:
faster go pocket shelly they are great for pocketing

Wait where did it say that? Must have missed it.

[teacher]

Okay chicos, important question, how long have I been posting here for?

You mea. Like the 20ish minutes way or the since May 2019 way?

[teacher]

It took me a moment but I got it.

[teacher]

And the Pagetop too.

[teacher]

But now I’m Audi. Be well y’all.

[teacher]

And yes, the kerset logic.

[teacher]

Well I’ve phone fast skinned everything and:

I am going to be constantly behind this game

I had gut town kings from how not lurky saud started as

I feel like I did back when I started playing — like I was dropped in the middle of a ring of people who all know each other and I didn’t get half of what was going on.

For whoever said something about me not reacting to a page 2 wagon — what’s there to react to? It’s lolwagon. I love being lolwagon s, because that’s almost never the D1 lynch.

Mena, the Kerset response is going to require WiFi which my work now blocks.

Anything else need a super quick hit?

[teacher]

<3 IV.

[teacher]

Lol. What’s a town reaction to what is clearly a surface-level thought?

Pedit: no, the knowing people comment was about the speed interplay with Shelley Iv ydrasse and some others. I feel almost like it’s the newer site meta that I don’t quite have a grasp on yet.

[teacher]

Nah, you do you. It didn’t bum me out so much as feel like a different world. I’d rather not inhibit natural personalities, just commenting on how it was diff for me

[teacher]

Teacher I suggest you catch up because the pace of this game isnt really that quick

Ya but the pace of school is. I can only spend like an hour or so every other day rn.

[teacher]

fuck thats a lot of pages, ill catch up later today but i read through page 16 and my TRs are menal bob and teacher. i guess i should UNVOTE: teacher. ill put down a vote later once im caught up.

This is an odd popin, especially for the reads, when menal is pushing the slot and given trs/tls of bob and me. Feels like a way to get Mena to shift? I don’t like the post.

[teacher]

Teacher I suggest you catch up because the pace of this game isnt really that quick

Ya but the pace of school is. I can only spend like an hour or so every other day rn.

Well you are on my scum radar so find a way to towntell or ill hang you

I’m trembling in my booties.

[teacher]

Dude it’s been less than 24 hours than the game started/i confirmed. How about you go and chill out with calling me a liability when I have “work” and “life”. I play here at Ms precisely because the deadlines allow for my pace.

[teacher]

hello people. Time to gloss some pages then dive some isos. Anyone want to call out anything in particular as I begin?

[teacher]

Me:
bob (townie god) > shelly > ydrasse > andres > mena > suadade > kerset > teacher > osuka > IV (leaning more townie) >  NDMath > taylor (scum extraordinaire)

this is a very strange readlist. teacher is on the low end? shelly is at the top? kerset and saudade are in the middle? can you elaborate?

I gotta be honest, given my lack of presence, Im not sure how the positoning of my slot coulod possibly be your first question on seeing this readslist. Ditto placing Kerset -- a fairly non advancing slot) in the dead center. How are these real questions.

[teacher]

bob: Town read actually. His opener is pretty wack and that logic seems strange but I think he believes it. going against the grain and taking a risk/getting discussion going is townie as heck. TR

this is your reasoning for him being a townie god?

he could “believe it” and also be scum

i just reread that post and burst out laughing

"he was playing pretty weird and what he's saying doesn't seem to make all that much sense but clearly he's a strong believer so obvtown"

Tonereads are a thing, ya?

[teacher]

@Mena, re Saudade's Kerset logic back around page 8 (two nights ago). Its 168, about 77 specifically, but really about Kerset's ISO through that point. Saudade was prodding Kerset (and, later, me) to actually get involved in the game rather than lol-4-mason fluff, and calling the failure actually to engage scummy. (Yes this is an aside that is long past its time, but its when I got time to actually go back and get the post numbers to explain it).

[teacher]

Mena a couple times, Saud I think mebbe once. Your name looks familiar to me too, but I have no recollection of your actual play at all.

[teacher]

(you modded my game) Your turn to ask!

hard pass. This seems kinda pointless without having something Im looking for, and Im not there yet.

[teacher]

(you modded my game) Your turn to ask!

hard pass. This seems kinda pointless without having something Im looking for, and Im not there yet.

[teacher]

that has 80% accuracy rate

Ok, is like a truthiness thing or actual data, because I gotta day it sounds hella made up.

All my stats are a little illustrative. I could skim again all the the threads and give you an accurate percentage. 80% is in the right ball park though.


The reason it tends to be a light town tell is was experince as town and when playing scum. I find scum rl day one mostly are some what restrained. While town simply has no restraint what so ever.

geniune question though. Does the same co-joint read apply to IV-Ydrasse if Osuka doesnt later hop on? You seem to be saying scum dont late-join lol-wagons (a position I find somewhat reasonable). But why give that benefit to the last joiners exclusively? If anything its IV's join that takes it from RVS-2 to lol-wagon-3, so that slot gets towncred from me under the reasoning you give, but you didnt include them in your initial discussion.

[teacher]

EBWOP with respect to 754 -- I see you narrowed in 31 to Ydrasse. That I can get behind. I was more focused on the scum together thing. I also liked you sharing the thought.

[teacher]

Random response to the setup spec -- I think its pretty useless. I also think the images confirm our mod could do some funky stuff (meant in the best possible way). I could see two negative utility town roles being in the game. I know the miller was hard-claimed, was ascetic doubled-down on?

[teacher]

Thx much.

[teacher]

Kerset, whats your history with the pl?

[teacher]

Kerset, whats your history with the pl?

long ago a bit with bob, minor recent with iv, i played as scum with mena where he called me bad wanted to bus me but i played uno reverse card on him, some with saudade but only d1 and i think i had a game with daitsi

What do you make of how Ydrasse reacted to the 4-mason claim? To me it suggested a degree of familiarity that this history does not hold up. Specifically 39 but more so 180

[teacher]

Menal is giving me weird vibes atm, not sure if alignment indicative or just how they are. For those who have played with menal before, what do you think about them?

I feel pretty good about him being town, but always have a lack of confidence in my read of him (though Im more often right, I just respect his scum game).

[teacher]

@773 - Thats still a degree of familiarity I would expect to require actual shared history -- especially remembering to play it back pages later. I'll let it pass though, unless you have something more to say on it.

[teacher]

OK, shotgun readslist time after re-glossing the 30ish pages. please feel free to poke at it -- being forced to verbalize it may help refine it, but Im not willing to make myself do that work

Teach
Andres Bob Mena
Shelley Ydrasse Kerset
****Plusjoyed IV***** -- I need more reasoned takes on this line. I have had conflicting pings and havent landed on one I like. I think I like IV better of the two, but dont have a personality sense
Saud Osuka NDMath
Swifty
VOTE: swift

[teacher]

Ironically the fact that he now seems to be trying to take the game more seriously and isn’t just memeing makes me more worried than if he’d just kept shitposting

doesn't more posting help you sort their alignment? Why are you concerned about saudade not shitposting? Seems counter-intuitive

It doesn’t really feel like you’re trying to understand his mindset vs shade the reads honestly.

There’s a difference in players and play styles. The fact that Taylor buckles down as the pressure grows suggests some degre of survivalism. Saud is in my (limited) experience, a lurker player who is tunneling people known to be lurky/late game in. A way that allows fewer associatives while still looking hungry - and even getting against the grain cred.

This ain’t counterintuitive if you think about it ya?

[teacher]

Hunty* not hungry. And some other autocorrect issues.

[teacher]

Menal is giving me weird vibes atm, not sure if alignment indicative or just how they are. For those who have played with menal before, what do you think about them?

I feel pretty good about him being town, but always have a lack of confidence in my read of him (though Im more often right, I just respect his scum game).

Why do you think I’m town or like why do you feel pretty good at this point? I’m not surprised you’re TRing me exactly but like I would have expected you to be somewhat less confident (unless the bracketed corollary is that)

It’s the town for day one, re-evaluate entirely after flips position I generally come to wrt you. The bracketed, and the but, were trying to express it.

[teacher]

do people still think teacher is town

Well let's see, you've provided no case other than 451, which I and other slots have since questioned you about (e.g., 457 and 575) and you havent responded, so......mayhap you want to actually case or interact?

[teacher]

There, the feeling is mutual. Actually not really, as I can see you as town, or as scum, Ive had conflicting thoughts. Since we seem to be the only ones around you want to jam a bit?

[teacher]

Like you are Plus are the two slots Im finding hardest to sort, so do you want to walk me through your thoughts on Plus?

[teacher]

And if you don’t necessarily scumread me, what are you doing with your vote? It’s not like your vanity is exactly for pressure, and it’s not like the game hasn’t matured to the point where you should have scumreads, y?

[teacher]

Saud you want to sell me on your iv townread?

[teacher]

Saud you want to sell me on your iv townread?

You think IV is more scum than Kerset?

Nope, didn’t say that. Just said I’m super conflicted. I want people to give me reasons why they are one way or another so that I can try their thoughts on for size since I can’t seem to fit my own. Maybe it’s the absurd comment that they don’t have scumreads or case — without seeing the mindset trajectory, reading the slot is hard for me.

[teacher]

Fair nuff.

What do you think of mena’s statement that Kerset is lhf?

Pedit: I’m not good with going to L-1 rn. I’m not strictly opposed to the wagon just don’t think the day is at a point when lolhammered should start being possible.

[teacher]

Apologies for this and future errors with elimination terminology/abbreviations.

[teacher]

Low hanging fruit - someone who generally does not engage day one and therefore an easy push but perhaps a bad elimination/pressure target.

[teacher]

Yes he can.

[teacher]

Saud do you have a +rand read on plus?

[teacher]

Low hanging fruit - someone who generally does not engage day one and therefore an easy push but perhaps a bad elimination/pressure target.

this label can be given to scum or town its quite nai

Exactly. But NAI nullishness is truly rand, and therefore If we are 10:3, like 75% town, so why push lhf slot that isn’t going to change its ways?

[teacher]

No, I’m accepting menas characterization as being consistent with my own limited history as well, and nobody has suggested he is not or otherwise provided an affirmative reason to scumread the slot other than lack of engagement at which point NDMath’s four posts raise their head as probably a bigger issue.

[teacher]

Fair, and then I’m asking you to actually explain that nuance or the Algo

[teacher]

also if I have a town pool and a bunch of nais their scum equity is higher than 25% even if they have done nothing AI

Remind me of your town pool then?

[teacher]

I’ll reread for that. Thx.

[teacher]

May have done, but it didn’t crystallize for me — I’m mostly reading on mobile which I have discovered causes me to miss some posts in the skim. I thought your issue was lack of engagement, not deflection in response to that.

[teacher]

I just searched deflect* - ya I see you saying it, but it didn’t stick. My b.

[teacher]

I read the interchange where you made that argument — all early, page 8. I guess I don’t see the interchange the same way/see the scum motivation for responding to the push that way. Like it’s a negative framing response, one that scum!kerset knows would put him in a bad light. Town!kerset doesn’t care about that or pleasing you. I’m not saying I townread him for it, but I also dont get a scumread from it.

[teacher]

Ya, as a wagon on him has consistently grown/he’s remained a topic of focus. Not much survivalism ya?

And fair enough, I’m not trying to convince you tbh. I’m more kicking the tires on your read which feels a little playstyle>alignment. I don’t deny there isn’t much town advancing, but there is also an insouciance/indifference to the lynch possibility that was why I had it as out of my Compromise pool earlier.

[teacher]

Nope. Not at all. I’m playing out the counter position. Hewas the bottom rung of my reads right above the compromise pool because I’m not at all confident he’s town. I’m just equally not sure he’s the best elimination and am trying to understand why you do since you’re the wagon driver.

[teacher]

Well, no. Vote counts nmight help with understanding who I like most for scum rn.

[teacher]

I haven’t lowkeyed anything. I asked you to explain your case, and then given reasons why I’m not sold. If you don’t like hearing different views, you should try 1p mafia.

[teacher]

wagonomics is not a useful tool day one

I’m not doing wagonomics. I’m saying if you want to know what slot I would eliminate over Kerset, maybe you should look at who I am voting instead of Kerset. It’s not that hard to understand.

[teacher]

Yes, I made you repeat something you said on page 8 and then asked you to react to my issues with it and see if you could convince me. I’m so sorry.

I don’t think pressuring osuka is worth my time. And before you came I was trying to talk to IV. What’s your issue?

[teacher]

Ya, cause this sort of weak positioning but questioning (I’m open to it but have issues) is definitely how scum!me would approach a buddy who is a leading wagon target. I mean, really?

I don’t think this interaction has been in good faith. Shading me for raising issues — while not explaining why any of the issues are invalid — is hella manipulative.

Pedit: agreed.

[teacher]

I don’t think I have, and it has weakened since I posted it with the lack of engagement. That said, I really liked his early point in your RVS vote being town, especially the clarification of it. That was a mindset I could grasp and seemed actually geared towards solving and creating useful discussion. Likewise, I inferred my own mindset (lack of survivalisn) into em how he talked about Kerset. I again vibes on Andres and liked the questions to plus. Like there’s not much there but what there has been has been in tune with my own thoughts and general approach.

[teacher]

also if I have a town pool and a bunch of nais their scum equity is higher than 25% even if they have done nothing AI

Remind me of your town pool then?

[teacher]

kerset can you like provide some content though

If you want to talk about something then ask me about it directly.

kk -- why are you still on what reads as a lol-vote? What are your 4 best reads, either way, out of rand?

[teacher]

Talk to me about Andre, because I found that to be pretty towny.

[teacher]

Andre as scum is more aggressive and reactive then as town and here he lost temper after i gave shade on him.

Quote please.

Why claim Miller as scum, when theory says that has to be eliminated before lylo, and when there has already been a hard asthetic claim, which would prompt the exact setup spec it did. Generally speaking, I liked their slew of posts in the 600s.

[teacher]

Andre as scum is more aggressive and reactive then as town and here he lost temper after i gave shade on him.

Quote please.

Why claim Miller as scum, when theory says that has to be eliminated before lylo, and when there has already been a hard asthetic claim, which would prompt the exact setup spec it did. Generally speaking, I liked their slew of posts in the 600s.

Page 31.
I should rather ask, why claim it so late. Still role speculation is ineffective without revealed roles, so there is not much point in doing it.

On page 31, I found the annoyance to be somewhat reasonable. You are right that they werent/havent/dont post much, but you really did not explain where Andres did not execute on his policy of looking for obvious scumtells. You just pointed wholesale to another game -- which is a great way to pretend to have justification without specifying it. Where specifically in 2023 did Andres not follow through on his stated methodology of thinking scum would be more reserved/anxious/mistake-avoidant.

[teacher]

Where specifically in 2023 did Andres not follow through on his stated methodology of thinking scum would be more reserved/anxious/mistake-avoidant.

[teacher]

You didn't explain how exactly did you like slew of posts in the 600s. You just liked it. Any argument in this game, which is based on impression can be doubted like that and there is no way for me to prove that my insight is correct.

You didnt ask. Is this you asking? I can try to walk through it if you want, but you have to actually ask -- it seems kind of like a waste of time if you arent interested in hearing it.

Im not asking you to prove that your insight is correct. Im asking you to show me where it came from. You said he didnt follow through on his mindset in other games. I am asking where.

[teacher]

Where specifically in 2023 did Andres not follow through on his stated methodology of thinking scum would be more reserved/anxious/mistake-avoidant.

Show me a place where god appeared as non existent? I just said that such things DIDN'T APPEAR, so an answer would be everywhere. I start to see bad faith in you.

Ugh. You do realize in this post you both give me something specific to look at (check out god and Andres’s trajectory there) and then say I’m acting in bad faith for asking for something specific to look at, right?

[teacher]

Yoink.

[teacher]

K: andres doesn’t follow his claimed mindset
T: show me andres not following his claimed mindset.
K: here is an instance of Andres not following his claimed mindset. Also how dare you ask......

[teacher]

-Look! In this quote he didn't use such methodology!
>But kerset you can't prove that person doesn't use methodology just because they didn't use it one particular time.
-Yea, i guess it makes 0 sense to prove it in such way.

Is this just preemptive defensiveness? I haven’t even gone to the source you cited yet (and don’t plan to for a bit, much less disagreed with your take on it. How is this relevant at all?

Bottom line, you made a claim, and obviously should have some reason for it, ya? So what’s the issue with asking for a more specific basis to evaluate it? Just cause you’re apparently willing to “whatever your quote was” read all of 2023 doesn’t mean I am, so asking for a narrower scope is bad faith how?

[teacher]

Nd math, that’s a pretty narrow post to reenter with. What would you say is your availability generally? What are your own takes? Etc.

[teacher]

Hahahahahhahahahahahaha. Now that’s humor.

[teacher]

Bob, it might be the wine, but Im just not understanding 1133 and 1134 at all. I think you are saying the Kerset wagon has been town driven/dominated? Are you saying Taylor is also town? (I dont get "taylor doesnt feel like scum wagon -- are you talking about the wagon or the target? The remainder seems to be a tr on taylor, so maybe the target, but Im not certain).

[teacher]

Saud, you want to explain the egging on the wagon just to bail?

[teacher]

VOTE: NDMath
Coming in once a morning with a narrow post is not acceptable to me. I need to see you actually interact and play.

[teacher]

Plus, is that really all you have after the weekend v/la. No reactions to the content?

[teacher]

taylor doesnt feel like scum wagon. Feels like either counter wagon to scum or just a push on town. Rather than push based on a strat.

Bob, this is the line Im still trying to parse. What is "just a push on town" if not a townread on Taylor?

[teacher]

intent

Welcome back.

[teacher]

How was climbing?

[teacher]

Andres, you might not buy the answer, and that’s fine, but it is an answer — it counts, you just disagree w it.

[teacher]

I just don’t want it lost that I have given

intent

, since it was a page ago.

[teacher]

uhhhh at work but
teacher has been swapping his votes/sr a lot based on public opinion of those slots, he's flip floppity
he thought iv was scummy early when I did then he stopped later around when i stopped
he did the same thing with voting taylor then abandoning it
he also voted ndmath for inactivity also same time i expressed sr on slot
but then when kerset was at e1 he expressed intent to hammer and i don't think he ever even sr kerset before that

Is this TMIing a scum claim? I’m scummy for having similar thoughts to you??? I’m baffled.

Also - speed read update: @mena, I think my reads look somewhat like that but have shifted on the fringes. Bob has slid down,, Kerset down, and saud up. I’m also forming more solidified reads on IV (up, above ydrasse) and plus (down, below osuka). I think that’s about it but will give a better snapshot when not on mobile.

[teacher]

Also, lol at me being agreeable. This is probably my second most antagonistic game on site.

[teacher]

This is painful to skim. The hammer test was super obvious to me so I’m not sure how nobody else knew what softing on. It seemed like several were intentionally playing along.

On tonight to actually y’all.

[teacher]

Talk*

[teacher]

There’s no way I’m catching up on the 20 pages tonight, but I’m around for about 30 mins.

[teacher]

I’m more interested in exploring the timing around the Kerset hammer test and claim. I reread those pages and it’s OMG obvious that it wasn’t a hammer. Andres is even telling Mena “DONY” out of concern Mena is going to our the test. Like there is no chance Lerset doesn’t realize they’re not hammered, and not even at L-1 anymore. So I don’t get that claim. There’s scum circling around in that immediate timeframe, and I want to nail it down.

IV’s 1518 was certainly interesting. I genuinely don’t believe it was a PT slip, because I buy the color thing. I have never seen an actual example of one of those on MS.

[teacher]

@teacher when you get here I’d like for you to either vote osuka or tell me why I’m wrong

No. (Maybe tomorrow when I’ve re-isoed. My issue is that I don’t see why you’re right. Sure it’s a standoffish slot with some weird associatives coming from Plus (who I also suspect). But doesn’t that point to plus as a better flip? I’m also interested in rereading NDMath and Bob at this point as the low posters, and poking around at the Kerset hammer test.

On which note, Saud, can you address the unvote reasons now? Andres is making a big deal of it. I didn’t see 1101 as a crumb at the time, but perhaps others did. Why unvote? Why return with little direct interaction in between? Why hammer test? What do you make of the reaction? Etc.

[teacher]

Pedit: I see we overlapped, but could you talk more expansively on it.

[teacher]

UNVOTE:

I’m heading to bed. I’ll reassess at some point tomorrow.

I’m probably inclined to lynch in (Kerset-Plus).

Whether or not saud thought it was hammer, Kerset shouldn’t have. I know — especially as PR — exactly where Vcs on me stand. I don’t see him not knowing that ONE of of saud/IV was already on wagon, much less both. Kerset claimed at L-2, but did so wearing an attitude of being hammered, rather than responding to intent??

It people are too scared of going to claimed PR, I’m going to need some selling on Osuka>Plus.

[teacher]

Apologies again for the terminology error. Old habits

[teacher]

Kerset [5]: Andresvmb, Ydrasse, innocentvillager, Saudade, Menalque

osuka [4]: Menalque, innocentvillager, Ydrasse, Andresvmb

Presumably, y’all hopped off Kerset because of the claim, ya? So you have to presume there was scum on Town!kersets wagon, right?

Then what the hell are you doing being willing to wagon another slot with the exact same people? I mean I think most of you TR saud, so his difference does not explain this behavior.

[teacher]

Kk, then what are you doing make another slot claim rather than trusting your reads the first time round?

[teacher]

I mean, we already have 4 claims so far today, you think going for five is good play?

[teacher]

Ndmath =ascetic
Andres = Miller
Kerset = gated doc
IV = vt

[teacher]

Spoiler: the total unbelievability of that hammer test

Kerset [5]:

Andresvmb, Ydrasse, innocentvillager, Saudade, Menalque

Votecount showing wagon members just one page behind hammer test.

i think this discussion is good and yes my vote is on kerset

IV emphasizing wagon presence (in response to Saud) less than 20 posts before hammer test.

VOTE: kerset
Hammer gg

Saudade pretends to be the hammer, despite being the obvious wagon driver. But....

VOTE: Kerset fine

IV won’t let Saud do the test, and instead pretends HE is the hammer (calling out how fake it is)

guess we just wait for the flip

super meta btw anyone posting on twilight is 90% town

I’m really hoping this flips Scum so the Andre alliance can remain without paranoia!

Oh, just don’t mind us three (and others) casually emphasizing the hammer and twilight in every comment we make because that’s so typical, amirite?

Wait

Wait

DON’T

Wait

DON’T

don’t what...?

And definitely don’t double check anything because nobody has anything to hide behind all caps DONT. Just keep assuming everybody talks about a lolhammer as if it’s the worlds funniest thing.

wow good job you gamethrowed to satisfy saude ego, suck to be you bc you lost doctor by not giving me chance to claim. At least 10 players in mafiascum will learn how valueable independent thought is.

This is not a valid claim in this context.

VOTE: kerset

[teacher]

menal is saying "IV and I are never aligned". menal is arguing that IV is town, so that implies menal is scum, but it also feels like menal is anticipating a red iv flip and trying to distance. either way, menal = scum.

Fwiw, I noted the same but again think you’re at surface level If you look at the thought Mena is trying to express, it carries an implicit “IV and I are never aligned

as scum together

”. And believe me that’s an argument he makes all too often.

[teacher]

Tswizzle - you haven’t directly reacted to the claim. Thoughts?

[teacher]

cC’ing is more complicated in a normal — I tend to believe you don’t CC day one regardless, and just pocket the red for later — either D2 or D3, but that depends on crumbing and playing consistent with the red knowledge.

Also IV for someone waiting around to discuss the terrible hammer test apparently 1654 and 1827 just whizzed right by you.

[teacher]

I can see IV as possibly being with Kerset (there’s nothing like a fake hammer test to possibly spare a partner you were bussing), and I’m willing to go there. I’m pretty strong on that with four claims, we should lynch in the claim pool rather than go outside it. I’m quite positive scum will never shoot Kerset, so would prefer to resolve that given my read of the claim and the wagon (including a gut town on IV that I’m willing to compromise on)

[teacher]

Yea that last was pedit Ed all to hell. I’m sorry but Iv, sleep and get better. Rn it’s reading to me like you want out for health/sanity, or you want to eat the Guillo to spare a pr buddy. I think you just need a break.

[teacher]

i am *alright* with a kerset lim but at the same time I'm afraid they are actually doctor

Gated doc in a game that lasts at most 5 nights = pretty weak Pr.

We have two anti-town town roles claimed, implying that town must have some decently strong PRs including some kind of investigative (Miller)

If town has two strong PRa plus gated doc (the kind of power that would justify two antitown roles), then scum likely has at least gated rolestopper.

Given suspicions of Kerset, scum do not shoot but instead block (at least when town reads become sufficiently common that they are worried about overlap).

This is why I think town has to resolve the Kerset slot. I don’t think scum does it for us. And I don’t think waiting for later makes it easier to eliminate a claimed PR.

[teacher]

Hi OMGUS. How’s it going?

In what way are you the most popular slot post-claim?

In what way was swiftie when I was pushing that?

I mean, point to literally any time this game I’ve been on the leading/popular wagon in any VC?

Can’t do it? Then OMGUS.

[teacher]

I don’t TR you. I am no longer inclined to include you in my elimination pool. Changed at some point in the last 48hrs as your posting picked up/I could see more of where you are coming from. It’s more others went down than you went that far up. I think I’m going to need vca/nka to truly sort you because I haven’t had enough of your thoughts to get your perspective (though you’ve been posting more and that’s been helping too)

[teacher]

I don’t TR you. I am no longer inclined to include you in my elimination pool. Changed at some point in the last 48hrs as your posting picked up/I could see more of where you are coming from. It’s more others went down than you went that far up. I think I’m going to need vca/nka to truly sort you because I haven’t had enough of your thoughts to get your perspective (though you’ve been posting more and that’s been helping too)

Each time you don't TR each person, who just happen to be the most wagoned? You don't even read other slots in this game, all of you attention is placed on enforcing elims.

Again. Show me one time — any time — my vote has been in the largest wagon.

[teacher]

OK, shotgun readslist time after re-glossing the 30ish pages. please feel free to poke at it -- being forced to verbalize it may help refine it, but Im not willing to make myself do that work

Teach
Andres Bob Mena
Shelley Ydrasse Kerset
****Plusjoyed IV***** -- I need more reasoned takes on this line. I have had conflicting pings and havent landed on one I like. I think I like IV better of the two, but dont have a personality sense
Saud Osuka NDMath
Swifty
VOTE: swift

need VC as well?

now show me part of your content, which was about other slots then pressured ones?

Nope, not the leading wagon.

Tayl0r Swift [3]: shellyc, NDMath, Menalque
innocentvillager [3]: PlusJOYED, Kerset, Tayl0r Swift

VOTE: Kerset

And what slots would you like me to control F in my iso, because I’ve talked about all of them. Including defending you. I’m happy to have the discussion, but like the quotes show, you actually need to bring facts.

[teacher]

Crap, I’m too sleep deprived. You’re right, I took a wagon from 3-3-3 and moved it to 4-3-3. I totally look bloodthirsty for that. But at least you could point to one instance when I was in the leading wagon.

What slots do you think I’m ignoring/avoiding?

[teacher]

No, but with three days left to the deadline you’re going to sure as hell try to need to convince town if you want your vote to count. So don’t shy away from actually supporting your claim (I mean, I get how being on the leading wagon for all of 26 posts in a 2000 game makes me bloodthirsty and all).

[teacher]

ok teacher is scum

VOTE: teacher

Over first half of this game he wanted to eliminate swift, over second half he wanted to eliminate me. Now he hopes that he can support saude to get rid of me. His entire ISO is just bloodthirst to get the most popular slot voted out.

i was thinking the same thing and he brushed me off

1387. I’m not the one who brushed off the conversation.

[teacher]

Well we did just achieve 30 pages, or 40% of our game length, in 24 hours

[teacher]

You’ve already softed quite heavily today. Why make it this painful?

[teacher]

Shelley you have all caps calling them out on the soft. In what way am I exposing something that was not already being actively talked about?

[teacher]

Well I will gladly push through either of my “partners” to get an elim today if needed. I’m at Kerset>IV for my end of day lynch and think we should not be lynching outside the already massive D1 claim pool — why force another slot potentially to claim?

@shelley: how am I rolefishing rather than also expressing my own irritation, pls explain the difference between our posts

[teacher]

Also - daddy?

[teacher]

Daddy

[teacher]

I did get a fun role this time around that I've been crumbing

=softed quite heavily. Literally the same thing.

[teacher]

NOBODY ELSE OUT OR CLAIM
PLUSJOY I THOUGHT YOU KNEW BETTER NOT TO CLAIM AHHHHHHHH

WHY DID YOU SOFTCLAIM PR
WHY DID YOU JUST OUT YOURSELF
WHY DID YOU CLAIM PR NOT AT E-1

=why would you do it this painfully?

I really don’t see a difference here, other than word choice and all caps.

[teacher]

Like I don’t see how my comment was at all exposing anything that wasn’t in the posts immediately before mine and just likewise expressing my amazement at the fact that we have had 3 entirely voluntary, non-intent claims given today.

[teacher]

Mena where are you?

[teacher]

Ugh. I don’t understand the state of the game with 48 hours to deadline. Like there’s no urgency and all kinds of people trying to start new wagons.

What’s unclear to me is why Mena is stuck on a vanity on Osuka. Or Shelley on plus. Or Andres on bob. Or NDMath on nobody. Like what are you all doing at this point if you aren’t actually trying to drive a wagon through? Y’all are basically chilling on vanities. I don’t see any serious drum banging going.

As for me, I wish I could push Kerset through. I TRed his wagon, and I disbelieve the claim. I don’t think the slot self-resolves.

But the reality is that I can’t. I tried my best case on the claim timing, but too many people are too leery of whacking a claimed PR. Ok.

So what’s next? For me, it make sense to stick in the claim pool rather than outside of it. That leaves Andres, the Miller who I find very town, ndmath, the ascetic I find very disengaged, and IV the vt that I guttown on tone/energy/mental openness, but concede has made seeming slips.

I’d like the old Kerset wagon to come back together, given my read of it and that slot. I think the best slot to do that on is NDMath. I find it odd that the slot has gotten limited attention all day, despite lack of presence/sorting. Part of the reason ascetic should claim (and should usually get a D1 pass) is that it’s not a role that can be mechanically sorted and so is best removed before lylo - whether by obvtownning til shot (not happening here) or being prophylactically guillo’ed. The list of non-self-resolving claims is already at least two long if not more. Let’s take care of one now and get the wagon analysis of having actual competition in the final two days.

VOTE: ndmath

[teacher]

I suppose I was wrong on two days, but I’ll be in school/limited during the last 17 hours so was reflecting my own view toward deadline.

[teacher]

Daddy

[teacher]

with that vote it's pretty evident that you don't understand the game state

how about we all vote iv and get a red flip d1

The gamestate is a viable wagon on IV and ..... nothing-ish? Like the Kerset wagon is clearly not viable, and I don’t think I am given the expressed reads of the people who aren’t on IV. Five people either aren’t voting or are on vanities - and mostly vanities on slots that have not had to (or, better, randomly decided to) claim. I’m trying to at least get the benefit of having two competing viable wagons going into EOD.

[teacher]

Teacher's vote made me laugh ngl.
"sToP vAnItY"

*starts a new vanity, but at least pushed it*

[teacher]

Ydrasse is voting Kerset but there no way that gets to seven.

[teacher]

Ok, I will just out the crumb I left in case I was killed. I’m informed. I’m informed has scum has a rolestopper. Any further questions on why Kerset, even if doc, never self-resolves?

[teacher]

Ok, I will just out the crumb I left in case I was killed. I’m informed. I’m informed has scum has a rolestopper. Any further questions on why Kerset, even if doc, never self-resolves?

Rolestop blocks kills though?

Scum aren’t going to block their own kills, ya?

[teacher]

VOTE: kerset

[teacher]

They stop a doc from docking, so eliminating the open doc doesn’t really lose towns power, since scum would block the protection anyway.

To be clear, I’m informed at least one mafia member has the role stopping ability. I don’t know if it’s gated or anything beyond that.

[teacher]

It’s not evidence against a doc (the evidence there is the oddity of Kersets claim). It is evidence that the role claim should not prevent a lynch because a known!doc is functionally not a PR against a rolestopper. So the question returns to whether Kerset is or is not scummy.

[teacher]

UNVOTE:

Oh boy. Should have looked up rolestopper.

[teacher]

It’s not evidence against a doc (the evidence there is the oddity of Kersets claim). It is evidence that the role claim should not prevent a lynch because a known!doc is functionally not a PR against a rolestopper. So the question returns to whether Kerset is or is not scummy.

this is false

a rolestopper stops mafia's own kill, are you being intentionally obtuse

Nope. I just transposed it to roleblocker in my head. I’m kinda happy outting info isn’t a terribly bad thing right now given all the egg on my face.

Have to reconsider approach to claim knowing how it works.

[teacher]

we're splitting over

stay on kerset please

? But my logic for not self-resolving doesn’t hold, I don’t think?

[teacher]

ooh ok that's cool info

pedit osuka I KNOW NOTHING ABOUT SETUP SPEC BUT I KNOW ROLESTOPPER STOPS THE PR FROM WORKING
ROLESTOPPER CAN STOP DOC FROM MAKING A SAVE ON OUTED PR

No it cannot. Doc can still save even when rolestopped.

[teacher]

lmfao then I totally messed u

Me too. Or me more.

[teacher]

teacher do you townread osuka

No. But I have several slots I’d do before him. I need to rethink the day based on knowing how rolestoppers actually work.

[teacher]

Daddy.

[teacher]

They also responded to the claim raising the conflict fwiw. It is odd to have rolestopper, ascetic, and miller, but I don’t think setup spec is where we want to go with this rn.

[teacher]

Osuka/saud talk to me about bob.

[teacher]

Yea. And I’m now a bit worried about how he shaded my rolestopper info for a future push. I fee he took the early townreads and has been coasting by.

Really what I’m struggling with is going to him or just going to IV. I really need to step back and do a holistic take of the game now that I actually understand my information. I don’t want osuka - I don’t think scum!osuka hops in there with the correct information in any event. If scum!osuka is doing it to save scum!kerset, it just strengthens already existing associatives. And if scum!osuka and town!kerset, then why not just butt out and let me be stupid for a bit longer? Like I don’t see any scum motivation for jumping in that cluster.

[teacher]

Pedit this was at ydrasse, but agree with Shelley’s posts too.

[teacher]

but ill compromise for saudade

what is this?

I read it as humor tbh.

[teacher]

It’s not the townread, it’s the role locker-rolestopper fiasco. Why not just let Kerset momentum build — he had already established his TR, why not get the cred for a townflip, and avoid further associatives if a scum flip. I don’t see him jumping in the middle of my error if scum and stopping it. Dumb town helps scum.

[teacher]

i am *alright* with a kerset lim but at the same time I'm afraid they are actually doctor

Gated doc in a game that lasts at most 5 nights = pretty weak Pr.

We have two anti-town town roles claimed, implying that town must have some decently strong PRs including some kind of investigative (Miller)

If town has two strong PRa plus gated doc (the kind of power that would justify two antitown roles), then scum likely has at least gated rolestopper.

Given suspicions of Kerset, scum do not shoot but instead block (at least when town reads become sufficiently common that they are worried about overlap).

This is why I think town has to resolve the Kerset slot. I don’t think scum does it for us. And I don’t think waiting for later makes it easier to eliminate a claimed PR.

If ever scum roleblocker type role flips. Teachs scum equity goes up.

Why go straight to roleblocker. Why discount scum hvaing tracker/ rolecop type roles

Here — bob catches my info crumb on rolestopper, prospectively shades me if one flips (and I know one exists), and still doesn’t correct the role stop/roleblock error. This troubled me a bit at the time and now that I outted my info I can say why.

[teacher]

Yea I’m heavily debating between converting to the church of IV or bob. I think I like voting bob more but can’t convince myself it’s the right play. Time to sleep.

[teacher]

They stop a doc from docking, so eliminating the open doc doesn’t really lose towns power, since scum would block the protection anyway.

To be clear, I’m informed at least one mafia member has the role stopping ability. I don’t know if it’s gated or anything beyond that.

ROLESTOPPER DOESNT PREVENT A DOCTOR, unless its a loyal scum rolestopper or something? that sounds OP tho

rolestopper does actually, technically, yes, prevent a doctor

but it also makes the target bulletproof, so that point is completely moot

Wait it’s not moot. If a doc gets rolestopped, do they protect? I read the wiki as saying it stops night actions affecting the target, not night actions made by the target

[teacher]

VOTE: bob

[teacher]

Hey i should actually be like teacher. YOU CAN'T SAY THAT MY ISO HAS NO CONTENT UNTIL YOU GIVE ME QUOTES.

Misrep. I said tell me what a lot I haven’t taken a stance on. You still haven’t. It’s not quote me, it’s say it. And then I would find the quote to prove you wrong. I’d gladly stack your iso next to mine any day to weigh content.

[teacher]

Bob/Andres, why are you so so fixated on other games - isn’t there enough here

[teacher]

Daddy.

[teacher]

I’d guillo IV before Osuka, so count at least me out.

[teacher]

Daddy x 100

[teacher]

Daddy x 100

[teacher]

I’ve seen enough towny from Osuka to make me not want to lynch them. I think they have done sorting outside of a lazy IV push. They aren’t expressing it, but it’s in how they talk with slots and about them. I don’t know — good feels about their apporach. I discussed it around the time of my rolestopper stupidity, but I don’t see any reason for scum!Osuka to step in there at all.

[teacher]

Like do I need to repeat myself because I was stuttering the first time or?

Hi Hiraki. No I got it and I don’t disagree with you — there is a reason I was trying to consolidate a counter - but I don’t get the Osuka case.

[teacher]

Ok I buy the Ellintell argument actually a bit, and you are allowed to say that under how the rule is written.

[teacher]

@teacher when you get here I’d like for you to either vote osuka or tell me why I’m wrong

No. (Maybe tomorrow when I’ve re-isoed. My issue is that I don’t see why you’re right. Sure it’s a standoffish slot with some weird associatives coming from Plus (who I also suspect). But doesn’t that point to plus as a better flip? I’m also interested in rereading NDMath and Bob at this point as the low posters, and poking around at the Kerset hammer test.

On which note, Saud, can you address the unvote reasons now? Andres is making a big deal of it. I didn’t see 1101 as a crumb at the time, but perhaps others did. Why unvote? Why return with little direct interaction in between? Why hammer test? What do you make of the reaction? Etc.

Here was my comment on when you started pushing. I guess I don’t really see why they are scum, or at least scummier than other slots.

[teacher]

Will do - I’m mobile limited rn so not going to try to iso and quote. The rolestopper was last night when I tried to get the consolidation/counter in Kerset because his supposed Pr would be negated and not resolved by the known-to-me-to-exist rolestopper. Of course that’s not how tolestopper works, but I had kicked it to role locker and even convinced Shelley. Osuka corrected it. I don’t see how that benefitted scum him in any way to step in.

[teacher]

Low blow

It was just the use of the word stutter which triggered in my head. No insult intended.

[teacher]

Also will do on the reread, but a couple quick hits:

I don’t think you can accurately say that the game has stabilized.
As for the sustained pressure — if you TR his brief wagon, you should join those same people on bob, or at least reinvestigate that read. I shared your pings but that slot has decidedly moved for me.

More after 8ish.

[teacher]

I’m going to make dinner, you’ve given me some good thoughts. My last request for you is to reread Bob

[teacher]

Yea that overlapped and was late. Be well.

[teacher]

But do you know how long active users takes to update.

[teacher]

And actually going to be chillin w the wife so I will see you on the flip side.

[teacher]

On one hand, I dont want to hand hammer choice between wagons to Kerset/Bob. On other hand, I really do think IV is a better flip than Osuka after that weird readslist. On third hand, I like the Osuka wagon more than IV. On the fourth hand, this game is so irritating.

[teacher]

IV, if you dont scum read the people low on your readslist, who do you scumread?

[teacher]

no, Im asking who you do scumread since your on and talking.

[teacher]

Can you quote it then? Pardon me for perhaps losing it in this cluster of a game.

[teacher]

Right, and as I recall you cant give any reasons for plus and ydrasse town other than you dont think they have the range to play this way as scum

[teacher]

I just did the homework on the supposed ellitell with Osuka and I dont see it LIKE AT ALL. Im going to review the rule before I say more, but I will say that.

[teacher]

Bob>IV>Osuka for me of the current wagons, and I will shift my vote in that order to get an elim through.

I feel the way that town has NOT at all be able to get coordinated wagons really at any stage of the game other than like 12hrs on Kerset is a sign of probably two active wolves, so flips will be good.

[teacher]

You do you. Im not much in the way of a wagon driver. I just cant get myself to a scumread of Osuka. Like I TR Mena, and the "LIES" is definitely his style, but he was silent as deadline neared even though returned from VLA, only to bang the drum incredibly loudly just when town would need to coalesce. And I am troubled, given his certainty of the elli-tell and screaming that Osuka was lying, that I cannot see actual evidence of it when I try to do my homework.

[teacher]

Andres i can see ur online come here and vote osuka

I’m thinking. Like this game is devolving into two camps almost [Saudade, Teacher, You v. Bob, Osuka, Kerset] and I’m trying to find some way of breaking through the barrier. Something that convinces me that I’m siding correctly. And I can’t get there.

id say saudade, teacher, menal, iv vs. bob, osuka, kerset, plus. but bob is mostly on the sidelines, its just teacher and menal want us to think otherwise.

I very much dont want you to think Bob is on the sidelines. I want you to vote him. Id also say at this point Im defending Osuka.

[teacher]

(and Id probably include you on the bob/osuka/kerset/plus side of the diagram, its that crew your vote has been with. Ditto Ydrasse on the left side, its that crew their vote has been with). I would not be surprised to find a wolf in each of the larger pairings.

[teacher]

(above to Taylor)

[teacher]

1530

[teacher]

Im in class starting at 13:15, so will put up my final vote then.

[teacher]

i am *alright* with a kerset lim but at the same time I'm afraid they are actually doctor

Gated doc in a game that lasts at most 5 nights = pretty weak Pr.

We have two anti-town town roles claimed, implying that town must have some decently strong PRs including some kind of investigative (Miller)

If town has two strong PRa plus gated doc (the kind of power that would justify two antitown roles), then scum likely has at least gated rolestopper.

Given suspicions of Kerset, scum do not shoot but instead block (at least when town reads become sufficiently common that they are worried about overlap).

This is why I think town has to resolve the Kerset slot. I don’t think scum does it for us. And I don’t think waiting for later makes it easier to eliminate a claimed PR.

If ever scum roleblocker type role flips. Teachs scum equity goes up.

Why go straight to roleblocker. Why discount scum hvaing tracker/ rolecop type roles

Here — bob catches my info crumb on rolestopper, prospectively shades me if one flips (and I know one exists), and still doesn’t correct the role stop/roleblock error. This troubled me a bit at the time and now that I outted my info I can say why.

I highly doubt your role is legit.

Your claiming a role that would never get night killed. A weak role at that, even weaker than VC.

See menals hosted game i think were PP claimed informed bg. Scum claimed to be bg and that they were informed of a strongman role. He was just a strongman.

If you were however unlikely a informed townie. You wouldnt of outed yourself as you would want to eat a night kill.

It’s shade like this that makes me want Bob most. I mean the push on me being informed is just dumb: wouldn’t scum!rolestopper me at least know what rolestopper does? Or are you just assuming my supposed “partners” are all just equally dumb.

[teacher]

I, your second preferred lim, said that.

[teacher]

And I will go to Osuka if necessary to push a lim through. I just like it less. I’m at:
Bob>IV>Osuka of current wagons, and don’t think a flash wagon is going to happen.

[teacher]

Daddy.

[teacher]

IV, how do you have that complicated thoughts and self voted twice. I don’t get where your head is at.

Again, I’d love for the people on Osuka to explain (perhaps red plain) why Osuka>Bob. I just don’t see it, instead of the stridency with which it is being pushed.

If the bob option goes away, as it’s seeming to, I’m going to IV as the most “compromised” slot.

Is jester normal?

[teacher]

What about scum who knew they would be the rolestopped target and so claimed a town role that could be confirmed by an investigative. I don’t think we had that long pregame to coordinate, and I’m finding NDmaths limited contributions Townie, but I don’t see scum ascetic with rolestopper too.

[teacher]

wait, so you think he did mix the two up? But why doesn’t scum!teacher say he was informed about a scum!roleblocker which is what he had in mind when he actually said rolestopper?

Looking in his past scum pt


Last scum game his team had a rolestopper. So doubt he wouldnt know the difference


looking at his scum games he set up fake crumbs early. And claims to play scum as if he doesnt know his alignment

if this is true?? then teacher is just scum right

Ive never played with a rolestopper before. Ever. Any game.