Mini Normal 2163: MItGBSMoD [game over!]

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Hello amigos, I have it in excellent authority that my buddy VOTE: teacher is scum

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Wait, *on excellent authority

Hey kids, here’s a lil tip from your old uncle Mena — don’t mix the devil’s lettuce with a very small loft when you’re already several beers in

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On excellent authority, you pleb, not in, unless you’ve had too much of the red again.

Teacher knows me too well and also is able to type too fast for my poor intoxicated state

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Why am I getting pedited so hard

Are you guys being abnormally fast or am I being abnormally slow?

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You know, I’ve had some quibbles with you in the past autocorrect but right now I forgive all of your sins

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Ydrasse is a pure soul

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Why can’t it be both? You are definitely slow. And there’s a lot of jabber right now.

Hang on, I have something for this

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Why can’t it be both?

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Ydrasse is a pure soul

p-edit STOP POSTING SO MUCH

Who, me? Lil old me?

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Okay ydrasse and Shelly are both pure souls

Teacher is almost certainly scum because I’m p sure mith made a site rule banning us from being the same alignment after we wrecked so hard our first game together

Datisi is also certainly scum, I have this as mod confirmed info from N0

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Shelly is townie
Osuka is townie

Ydrasse is trying to pocket me already so I feel I might as well just give her the TR preemptively

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Okay ydrasse and Shelly are both pure souls

those are gigantic pockets, rising star

They’re so warm and comfy tho, don’t worry about it

Also I can’t pocket ydrasse because ydrasse is going to pocket me

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i like how this game was like kind of serious on pages 2 and 3 and it’s back to this on page 6, silly me for thinking this might be an early rvs exit

I have a serious exe planned I just need more people to vote confscum with me

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Notice that teacher has disappeared since my arrival. It is because he knows that what I say is true, and the curse of the alignments still rests upon us!

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Why is IV town?

*huge but comfy pockets

Aso why is plusjoy town?

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Teacher’s avi is scary help me to eliminate him

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We’re going to do the babushka dolls thing

I’ll pocket Shelly, and ydrasse pockets me

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anyone else getting gutpings from ydrasse?

Uhh, no I’m really not actually

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yoink

GODDAMNIT PEOPLE WE HAD ONE JOB HERE

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Okay chicos, important question, how long have I been posting here for?

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i agree with all of this so Shelly is town

Scum PT:
faster go pocket shelly they are great for pocketing

Wait where did it say that? Must have missed it.

Check the new pagetop duh-doy

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Datisi why does this game not feature superior 8d/48h deadlines? For those are the deadlines to rule all other deadlines

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Okay chicos, important question, how long have I been posting here for?

You mea. Like the 20ish minutes way or the since May 2019 way?

Okay 20mins that works, my time perception is a lil weird rn and I wanted to check it wasn’t either 5mins or an hour

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Stay positive friends

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Guys

When will you realise

Vienna waits for you

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Saudade i feel like that makes zero sense but I can’t entirely judge rn

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Also it’s just such a catchy phrase

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It took me a moment but I got it.

The kerset logic or something else?

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By which I mean saudade’s logic for kerset being scum not whatever kerset has said

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vienna is a fan favorite to my family but i dont think i've ever heard them listen to a single other billy joel song

also pls not kerset

Sorry ydrasse we all decided in the scum PT that we were going to collectively pocket you so we don’t have to NK you

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Its a song lyric

Stay positive friends is a song lyric?

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im having a scum vibe from teacher

I mean I did tell u

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I don’t know the song lyric but I did find out the other day that saudade is a Portuguese word describing a sensation of being nostalgic or distant from something or someone we love

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Okay I think any logic is going to have to wait until tomorrow morning probably after a coffee

For now I have only my gut

And my gut says saudade townie?

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I shall explain, you open the thread, open up with rvs which can be an internet funny man joke vote

Much as in my opening post

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My pings off the first couple of pages are ydrasse, NDmath, and maybe osuka

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Oh, and all I remember from last night was getting a fairly strong impression that teacher was town from the way he reacted to my entrance

VOTE: ydrasse

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I said those were scumpings not a SR, and it’s because I (1) dislike the ascetic claim on opening and (2) dislike the shade on ydrasse for her RVS. Correspondingly i don’t think they’re scum together tho

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how does ydrasse feel scum to you? I think they're fairly obvtown at this point

Feels a little self-conscious I think? Like the justification for her RVS on being tempted, and then I dislike her already bringing up townblocs even jokily on pg2 just because it reminds me of the “hey what if we townbloc’d? Only joking haha... unless? Nah but really it’s just a joke”

Idk she seemed okay last night but something is just a lil off there

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Oh, and all I remember from last night was getting a fairly strong impression that teacher was town from the way he reacted to my entrance

VOTE: ydrasse

I don't like this vote without reasoning to go with and you're not caught up. We're past the random voting stage, that could have been an accidental hammer

...no it couldn’t as I saw the VC on the last page?

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mena do you have zero townpings? I think you sort of mentioned saudade but that seemed weak

Teacher and bob

Teacher I explained above, bob I just kind of like his opening of jumping straight into it? I’ve played against him as scum before and as town and this just reminds me of him being a sweaty tryhard when I think as scum he tries to be more UTR

These are basically all gut takes tho, I think the only thing I feel sort of confident on is teacher!town

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I don't see how you see NDMath as scummy but not Kerst, they both made joke claims

Bc kerset’s read as obviously a joke..?

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Also like, why do you think ND’s claim was a joke?

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I don't like menal's scumhunting/reads atm but that's NAI to me for now

Okay, why?

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oh ya forgot about teacher thanks

your ydrasse scumread is a hot take if you haven’t noticed, how do you feel about that

I feel like (1) it’s not like a fully fledged scumread and (2) I imagine I’ll feel more confident on her one way or another if I can actually get past pg2 lmao

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Why is ydrasse being townread tho?

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This is me claiming ascetic.


What if we wagoned someone who has actually confirmed?
VOTE: ydrasse

This game is 4p masonry and ydra is one of us. Any vote placed against masonry will be considered as treachery and punished with death.

Are you really suggesting that these are similar? ND’s claim is perfectly dry and arguably understandable from town, whereas kerset’s is like incredibly obviously joking and would be deeply anti-town if true

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[srs] Ydrasse is giving me subtle scumvibes rn.
They seem ... nervous? This is all gut feel and first impression though. It is the start of the game after all.

Also I’m like confused here plusjoy by you not getting my reads when apparently you had the exact same response to two of the people I’ve given opinions on?

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They’re like... really obviously not one and the same?

“This is me claiming aesthetic.” is meaningfully different from “Any votes placed against the masonry will be considered as treachery”

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Mason PT decided to rule the town through dictatorship. We need 3 player, which will collaborate with us to execute anyone we want.

Also following up with this is like... this is super obv a joke bc if we ACTUALLY had a 4p masonry then there would be like one other PR at most I think and scum would have like a huge advantage from knowing that their main job is mason hunting

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Whereas claiming ascetic is something that you can arguably do as town to try to save yourself from power, but which is definitely a debateavle thing to claim in your first post

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Wait, have I been writing aesthetic and not ascetic... Ffs

Literally tons??? And like again, ascetic is one of exactly two roles that theory is that you would claim with

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Like the two roles there’s a case for claiming off the bat are miller and ascetic

Also pls answer 379

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Okay, but that doesn’t change the fact that it’s weird for you to say you don’t get a read that I explicitly stated was based on first impressions when your first impression was apparently the exact same thing?

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Why are people voting IV?

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I'm not saying your first impression is wrong for you to have I just disagree with it and wanted to discuss it

Not but I’m saying

Why did you call out my first impressions/pings as weird/bad when I had the same first impressions as you did? Or like similar ones? That’s what I’m not getting

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Ok why?

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Because I’m now at pg8 and he’s probably at the upper end of town for me

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My own solve is Taylor / Mena / teacher

Is this a teamsolve or just three top individual scumreads?

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Wait Shelly are you an alt?

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Okay so like I think I’m roughly at

Teacher - townlean
IV
Shelly
Bob

Ydrasse - nulltown

Kerset - null
Andres
NDmath


Saudade - scumlean
Osuka

Plusjoy - scum
T-swizzle

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I feel like this is gonna be a game where I end up having to scumhunt more than townhunt and PoE my way through tho

Teacher you said last night that you got saudade’s logic for the kerset push but I’m looking at the ISO there and it reads very null to me so far

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So like, can you try to talk me through that?

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mena your vibes feel off....... are you scum?

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Ugh idk how I feel about you this game ydrasse

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my gut reads null of saudade

you’re posting a ton

let me tell you how much i dont have anything to say, but in a way that sounds like i have contributed

i like how everyone thinks they have super well-reasoned reads. like i guess its page 12 but the game is what? 3 hours old? has everyone even posted yet? chill out people. also a lot of people are giving reads but i havent seen a whole lot of vote-moving since initial rvs votes. interesting

I like, intensely dislike the first post here as just being like too self-aware and jokey about not doing anything, and it’s compounded by the complaining about people having reads? Like I feel like the town response to people giving reads is “good there’s something to work with” not “slow down, chill out”. I think high energy gamestate a are overwhelmingly likely to benefit town and think being a little salty about that speaks more to approaching the game from a scum mindset

Plus they’ve like been around at different points but none of their content really engages with the gamestate at the time imo

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Plusjoy I feel like I don’t understand where his thoughts are coming from at all, and that’s compounded with things I think are contradictory (thinking my reads were weird when I said similar things to his first impressions), I dislike the push on IV who I think is p towny so far and I dislike the confidence level being manifested there (also in conjunction with someone saying that in a past game as town he was happier to leave people as idk which speaks I think to an ability as town to be nuanced or acknowledge that his read strength may be variable as town), and then stuff that I just don’t get at all (like the thing of arguing that ND’s opening claim was as obviously a joke as kerset’s was)

Just like enough things seem off in small ways that despite him playing I don’t feel he’s town

Would prob prefer t-swizzle at this point tho

VOTE: t-swizzle

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Is talking to me gonna help or nah?

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hmm maybe we can start with your saudade read

you were gut town on them earlier what changed

I was, not exaggerating, super fucked up last night as I was playing after I got back from a get together

I really don’t remember saying saudade was town at all, I just remember memeing with him

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also does your read scale imply teacher is less townie than osuka, plus, Taylor are scummy?

Yea, basically

I don’t really feel that confident on my townreads yet this game, to the point where I’m locking people in/able to put them beyond the paranoia threshold at least for D1

That doesn’t mean that I’m lockscum on my scumreads, just like... generally happier about the bottom half than the top half. I imagine I may firm up once the null slots post more

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And my gut says saudade townie?

gotcha but yeah this

Okay that would be one of the posts I literally don’t remember making

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I don't like the mena slot. They also subtly moved their NDMath position from scummy to null after our convo about it, which he instead SR's me for. Not a problem in itself, but why would you seemingly agree with NDMath being null instead of scummy and also SR me for that?

No, I said I was scum pinged by ND’s opening

I then read the game and decided that there are other slots I prefer for scum given that ND has only 2 posts, which means that they got bumped up to null. If loads of people had been towntelling id put more faith in that initial ping

My problem with you was that you framed my entire catchup take as weird/bad despite that fypov those wouldn’t be weird takes overall because you’d had similar ones?

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I feel the same about you, I don't get your reads/tells

Okay what don’t you get?

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You’re TRing Taylor? Why?

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lurkerman

Who is this btw?

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I know

It’s cause I’m smort

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^obv addressed to IV

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my logic/reads make sense in my brain but your logic/reads don't make sense in my brain. But that's usually indicative of TvT I think

Hmm. Let me check something 2 secs

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my logic/reads make sense in my brain but your logic/reads don't make sense in my brain. But that's usually indicative of TvT I think

Hmm. Let me check something 2 secs

Yeah okay, I checked and this bothers me bc I don’t think you’ve made that much of an effort to understand my logic or reasoning for my reads? You basically asked about my NDmath thing and then argued with me for a while about whether his thing was as obv a joke as kerset’s thing or not, but like you didn’t really try to get me to go much further into my feelings on ydrasse or osuka, so I’m unclear how you were evaluating my logic at all?

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you know who is town and who is scum

well you’re right about that part

why do you say the things you say

Missed opportunity

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Mena, the Kerset response is going to require WiFi which my work now blocks.

That’s cool, I can wait

Also fwiw I think the only people I know here are you, ydrasse, bob, and Andres? (And our wonderful mod, ofc) so even if it’s coming across that we know each other really well, we don’t

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Ydrasse you seem like you’re being exceptionally nice even for you and that’s one of the things that’s been bothering me a bit

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i’m having fun and i’m in a good mood

Okay this is very good to hear but like I also feel like scum!you plays for pockets so do u get me on why it makes me uneasy?

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This game is p non-weeby imo

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This game is p non-weeby imo

Yeah but you post the most so every time i go on here i see ur avi and im like oh god why why did this happen

eh sorry, it’s who I am as a person at this point

Can you vote your weeb friend Kerset btw, hes scum

i don’t get ur logic tbh and find it weird ur pushing this angle so hard

I think kerset is v null so far

that’s fair @mena but i also don’t know what else to tell you here ?? i’m just having a good time [+ i’m actually making efforts to do things this game and solve/etc which is bc i rolled town]

Yisssss okay, I get that too (and like, if you’re in a good mood regardless I don’t wanna bring it down!) but it’s still one of those things I feel I would be remiss not to mention and I can’t help that it’s just giving me a wobbly feeling in the pit of my stomach

Idk maybe I’ll townbin you to be sorted later? I liked your shelly interaction, and tbh I like it even more now that you’ve dropped off the scumread there because that was pretty much the only thing bothering me about it

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Kerset is in my experience generally a fairly lhf player and it bothers me that saudade is going after a lhf player specifically with this instead of letting him post more and seeing if he obvscums or not

Then again teacher said he thought the logic made sense so maybe there’s something there

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@mena ur not bringing my mood down and i get it. one of these days i’ll come into a game super mean just to assure an anti-pocketing strategy

Roll scum with me and u can practice by bussing me (also okay, that’s good to hear!)

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One of us is a brilliant player and the other is yet to prove himself

Don’t worry buddy you’ll get that recognition someday

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One of us is a brilliant player and the other is yet to prove himself

Don’t worry buddy you’ll get that recognition someday

Literally look to your left you dumdum

Pfft what does a scummy mean vs the adoration of the masses

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Saudade what’s the difference between t-swizzle and kerset?

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Bc I think there is one and it’s why I think kerset is null and t-swizzle is scummy

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saudade feels like he's been trying to isolate himself from the get go but I don't interpret that as AI

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Ehh I’m going to go make food now and then catch a movie

I’m planning to not have a Big One tonight so I might be on once I get home, we’ll see

Would like to hear from bob, Andres, kerset, NDmath on the current gamestate when they’re next here

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I tentatively like Andres’ entrance, or at least he’s making me feel like I’m not insane for feeling like plus is questionable

Other than that uhhh my plan to not go out last night didn’t survive contact with the enemy so I’ve just skimmed the last page or so

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@andres are you gonna be around more at the weekend?

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early thoughts:

IV is town
PlusJoy is town
teacher's profile pic scares me
the rising star has huge pockets

first impressions is kerset feel like town

How come? I still feel very neutral there, I don’t think he’s done anything AI thus far

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My own solve is Taylor / Mena / teacher

Is this a teamsolve or just three top individual scumreads?

Wait Shelly are you an alt?

it is 3 top SR-s at the moment
I am not an alt, especially not a Hectic alt.

Ok do u wanna talk about why you think I’m scummy?

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Actually wait, another thing @andres, why do you like osuka so far? I feel like he has p good scum equity at this point in the game as someone not like trying that hard to solve but definitely trying to give of the impression of solving, and I kind of think hard pushing one person in particular is often indicative of that sort of fake scumhunting

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They both scream scum to me

Think my elimpool is still IV/taylor today. I'll do either or.

Did I already ask you what you thought was scummy in IV or nah? If I did can you link me to where you answered, if you didn’t then, why?

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ydrasse pure town energy: open, flexible, and spontaneous. Solid gold town mindset.

Okay specifically I don’t get this read? Like I think these are all things (behaviourally) that scum ydrasse is just as capable of manifesting as town ydrasse, so idg how you’re moving from these into declaring her as like strong town with a strong town mindset

I think on balance she’s slightly town atm for her interrogation of you (like I felt her questions were coming from an uninformed perspective prob when she was trying to understand your trajectory and her re-evaluation was good too) but I don’t see how you’re getting to this level of confidence from what she’s done so far?

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As in for the reasons you’re giving, if that makes sense

There are reasons to put her as town, just... not the ones you’re providing imo

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Okay I gotta run I am once again PLANNING on having a quiet one in which case I may be around to jam later but uhhhhh no promises

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Okay specifically I don’t get this read? Like I think these are all things (behaviourally) that scum ydrasse is just as capable of manifesting as town ydrasse, so idg how you’re moving from these into declaring her as like strong town with a strong town mindset

can scum!ydrasse actually do this? i only ahve one datapoint but the answer is no to me

Yes, she did it in her scum newbie and I very much believe that scum her is capable of repeating that performance

I think also, that despite going down on D1 as scum in the game I imagine you’re referencing that she’s a fast learner and v capable as both town and scum, and I think that with one very promising scumgame under her belt and one where she went down quickly, she’s probably already thinking about what she did differently from one to the other to avoid the mistakes of the latter in the future

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I’ve been calling her town? My entire point was that I think shelly is townreading her for not good reasons and I want her to explain why she feels so confident in that TR

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Like I think ydrasse is +town as things stand, but not for stuff to do with her tone or having a “generally townie mindset” or whatever the reason was

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the first post was me mocking the quoted post. i was pointing out the lack of actual content in it. the second post is not complaining that the game is active, but complaining that people are being very overconfident. its 24 hours in, we are still very much feeling each other out. i fully anticipate taking a bit longer to do that than the rest of you need, but even for people who are quick to develop reads, that was a bit premature. some people had posted fewer than 5 times.

Okay this kinda makes sense on the first point, I can see how that reads as a joke

But like where were people being overconfident in the second case? Like are you saying that early reads = inherent overconfidence or something else that I’m missing?

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Plus are you an alt/have you played a lot on different sites?

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I’m wondering based on your compendium if general scumtells from 323

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Anyway, can you like show me where the posts are from IV that have been tripping those tells for you?

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Okay well in that case follow up question: where is your list of general scumtells from and why do you seemingly have quite a lot of confidence in that?

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Chill, saudade

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@math why did you claim ascetic btw?

Also @bob do you have any more like general gamestate reads?

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I don't wanna repeat myself to saudade and menalque, I posted my thoughts on IV/taylor fast before in my readlist and I've been sus on them both for very early

Okay only I’m not asking so much about your specific reads rn I’m trying to understand what your process is to decide if you like, actually have one or not

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people were literally giving solves and i think not just for ego reasons in postgame. and people were talking like they had the game solved.

do u remember who? and like do you have a take on that either way? +scum/+town ?

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Yeah, but she’s since clarified that wasn’t meant as like a solve which is why I’m curious as to hear more on what Taylor’s reaction to it was

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Okay, I can wait, ty

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Saudade were you saying that you thought teacher was scummy bc that’s not a read I’m getting at all

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V/LA until Monday pls, turns out the town I’m going to for climbing may not have mobile coverage? So I may not be able to post at all

Got it! -D

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Saudade were you saying that you thought teacher was scummy bc that’s not a read I’m getting at all

Are you getting the read now?

I’m getting it more but like ime teacher has a pretty hard moral rule about not lying about anything IRL to gain advantage in game so I’m inclined to say his lack of presence is NAI

Also I sort of don’t think scum!him responds to me opening with a shitpush in quite such a calm manner, I think he’d feel obliged to push back a bit and he just... didn’t do that? If he continues to not post a lot I’ll reevaluate but I’m kind of happy to just leave him be for now until he can turn up more

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Actually wait, another thing @andres, why do you like osuka so far? I feel like he has p good scum equity at this point in the game as someone not like trying that hard to solve but definitely trying to give of the impression of solving, and I kind of think hard pushing one person in particular is often indicative of that sort of fake scumhunting

If osuka had highlighted something silly about Kerset, then maybe I would agree with this. But osuka’s points seemed perfectly legitimate to me. It did almost seem like Kerset was avoiding commenting on what was going on, and kept deflecting in the face of pressure. And osuka had some of the same reactions I had about shellyc’s posts but expressed them in a way that is more sarcastic and unfriendly that I would have done. However, I fully expect to see some decent takes from osuka, and until I find myself disagreeing or feeling like I’m being led in the wrong direction, I’m not going to SR it.

Osuka’s point(s) on kerset seem to be limited to “policy lynch” bc of his shitposting, so are you just agreeing with policying there or am I missing something in ISO? It feels like you’re talking about saudade here not osuka, or like conflating the two of them.

I also don’t see how osuka was having the same reaction as you to shelly when you’re hard townreading her and he opened by voting her in reaction to the same posts you’re TRing? Idgi

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hmm... aesthic and miller in a 13 man seems really unlikely.

Ehhh i think it depends on what the design philosophy was

I think it’s reasonably likely depending on the rest of the PRs

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Okay, I actually think I want this more than Taylor atp

VOTE: plusjoy

I think the attempt to go “one scum seems likely in the miller/ascetic” is more of a scum thought process than a town one, which I think is just wondering what the setup philosophy was. Whereas scum are already clued in on the setup from whatever power they have and would likely try to take advantage of roles that might become Named Townies lategame by trying to shade them/flip them early

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Stream of consciousness/genuine solvy vibe, reevaluates, good posting overall that is hard not impossible for scum to fake

Probably not as town as you and ydr I think but still up there

IV run me through again what it is that’s town about plus? Like his engagement has felt okay and I was starting doubt but I just feel like he’s approaching the game in a way that I can’t understand as being from a town PoV

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i think that the odds of plusjoyed being scum have dwindled as they posted if only like... the confidence with which they post things that honestly don't make sense (at least 2 me) has to be towny, right?

I mean, no, why does that have to be towny?

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Like I know, I know, can’t apply meta across people/sites but like I had an almost exact same response to someone in a game on mafuniverse recently where they kept pushing stuff that just didn’t make any sense to me, but they were confident and got generally townread by the rest of thread so I eased off my scumread and then they were scum all along

And like I’m getting the same vibe here where it’s like I’m trying to put myself in plus’ shoes and to understand how he’s getting to the conclusions he’s at as town and it’s just not adding up to me

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I read their scumgame and it's obviously different

This is like... not helpful and doesn’t really answer the question. What’s obviously different about it, and why do you think ydrasse isn’t capable of learning from her experiences so far to simulate more of her town behaviour into her scumgame?

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Like I think ydrasse is +town as things stand, but not for stuff to do with her tone or having a “generally townie mindset” or whatever the reason was

I consider the questioning of me as a town mindset

Okay but that’s not the same reasoning you gave in your readslist, you have a bunch of things about ydrasse generally and then extrapolated that she was town so which was it?

[Menalque]

My own solve is Taylor / Mena / teacher

Is this a teamsolve or just three top individual scumreads?

Wait Shelly are you an alt?

it is 3 top SR-s at the moment
I am not an alt, especially not a Hectic alt.

Ok do u wanna talk about why you think I’m scummy?

Also can u answer this @shelly

[Menalque]

@Mena, re Saudade's Kerset logic back around page 8 (two nights ago). Its 168, about 77 specifically, but really about Kerset's ISO through that point. Saudade was prodding Kerset (and, later, me) to actually get involved in the game rather than lol-4-mason fluff, and calling the failure actually to engage scummy. (Yes this is an aside that is long past its time, but its when I got time to actually go back and get the post numbers to explain it).

Yeah okay, but this actually bothered me a bit because kerset is like well-known to just shitpost and not necessarily do anything and I don’t really believe the thing about how making a second vote a joke vote as well is +scum

Esp given that I think kerset was still just memeing at that point and so the second vote was like, an extension of the initial RVS instead of an attempt to break into the game

[Menalque]

Menal is giving me weird vibes atm, not sure if alignment indicative or just how they are. For those who have played with menal before, what do you think about them?

I feel pretty good about him being town, but always have a lack of confidence in my read of him (though Im more often right, I just respect his scum game).

Why do you think I’m town or like why do you feel pretty good at this point? I’m not surprised you’re TRing me exactly but like I would have expected you to be somewhat less confident (unless the bracketed corollary is that)

[Menalque]

Also can u answer this @shelly

I don't SR you as much right now tbh

that stream of consciousness was quite town

but yeah something about mena just seems slightly off

I agree with some of your reads but I don't see the townie mindset

Okay, but what were you SRing in me before?

And like okay why do you think something’s off/what do you think isn’t townie about my mindset?

[Menalque]

Okay, so like I don’t think it’s impossible that town!plus exists I just think it’s unlikely atp, I’ve actually warmed to saudade since then but I’m lowkey concerned that he’s trying to pocket me

At that point I think kerset had like 4 posts, nd had like 2 and Andres had 1? Close to anyway. So why is it weird that kerset is in null at that point but not weird the others are?

And like, I don’t get why you read my questioning as trying to corner people? What do you think I’d be doing differently as town? I think I’m being fairly open and reasonable and I don’t really think I’ve treated anyone I’ve been questioning in bad faith

[Menalque]

out of {NDMath, Menalque} NDMath’s is RVS right?

I’d say mena and/or teacher are feasibly bussing here

Why would we be bussing here as opposed to defending/coaching?

[Menalque]

Ehhh i still think shelly is town I just kind of think her takes are bad

[Menalque]

mena didn’t explain the difference btwn kerset and taylor from what i can find?

That is correct, I did not

But basically, I think it was slightly scummy that Taylor made 286 which I still think was a post that is kind of trying to /look/ town more than simply is town, whereas I think kerset was just committed to the bit and I think f anything slightly town for sticking to the mason joke thing even after saudade started pressuring him

Ironically the fact that he now seems to be trying to take the game more seriously and isn’t just memeing makes me more worried than if he’d just kept shitposting

[Menalque]

this is my second towngame

please forgive me for messing up

It’s fine, I don’t mean to be mean and I don’t like think you’re a bad person or anything

I just think your reads are Not Great but that’s p normal as you’re a newbie, I have faith you’ll get to town!me in the end

[Menalque]

I would still like you to answer my questions tho

[Menalque]

Ironically the fact that he now seems to be trying to take the game more seriously and isn’t just memeing makes me more worried than if he’d just kept shitposting

doesn't more posting help you sort their alignment? Why are you concerned about saudade not shitposting? Seems counter-intuitive

To be clear, I was talking about kerset here

[Menalque]

Also I feel like taylor being a lurker and acting quite scummy, you would bus them for towncred since them going down (as they are a rather weak member of the scumteam in this gamestate) gives you a fair bit of credibility

I mean I prob would bus yes (I demonstrably have done on D1) but generally not if I think I can save someone, and I probably wouldn’t be the one to draw attention to the scuminess of my buddy, I’d fake a trajectory onto them if/when I figured saving them would hurt too much in the long run

[Menalque]

Menal is giving me weird vibes atm, not sure if alignment indicative or just how they are. For those who have played with menal before, what do you think about them?

I feel pretty good about him being town, but always have a lack of confidence in my read of him (though Im more often right, I just respect his scum game).

Why do you think I’m town or like why do you feel pretty good at this point? I’m not surprised you’re TRing me exactly but like I would have expected you to be somewhat less confident (unless the bracketed corollary is that)

It’s the town for day one, re-evaluate entirely after flips position I generally come to wrt you. The bracketed, and the but, were trying to express it.

Yeah, okay, this makes sense. I wasn’t sure if that’s what you were trying to say through the brackets etc but I think this makes sense for you

[Menalque]

V/LA until Monday pls, turns out the town I’m going to for climbing may not have mobile coverage? So I may not be able to post at all

Got it! -D

that sounds like fun

Thanks, hopefully it will be! I’m about to leave in a moment

[Menalque]

Hello my beautiful children, I am returned unto you after my spell in the wilderness

Also am v tired after 2 days spent bouldering and drinking (not at the same time, don’t worry my babies)

Can someone leave a post shortly after this one for me to read if anything important happened while I was away? I can see that wagons haven’t really moved much but I really cbf to try and think about what that means until tomorrow

[Menalque]

somehow i don't think you adopted us all

i feel like we talked about kerset a lot, some votes shifted on and off, some quiet slots came back to talk more

no i don't remember if anything worthwhile came out of it

I filed the papers before I left and when I got back the letter of confirmation had come through

Also ty

[Menalque]

plus doesn't make sense to me at all and i wanted to vote them again but they're v/la so it wouldn't even do anything

iv if you're scum i'm gonna be very sad postgame

iv is scum though

Okay but why tho

[Menalque]

bob's iso has literally nothing of note and i reckon that is, itself, of note somewhat. he hasn't posted much to be fair so im not sure how much that means if anything

I don’t think this is accurate at all after reading bob’s ISO where in the time that he has been around he’s been commenting predominantly on gamestate and on the leading wagons — like specifically he’s got a v clear progression on kerset which is significant as the main wagon, plus he’s been talking abut the CW and what that means and has weighed in on other slots, this just feels like baseless shade

[Menalque]

Why can’t it be both? You are definitely slow. And there’s a lot of jabber right now.

Hang on, I have something for this

Why can’t it be both?

shit tier shitposting

very weak, im very disappointed

[Menalque]

menalque's iso is interesting.

feels like fabricated disagreement and reads that slowly drift towards consensus while never truly getting there

, all the while trying to make it seem like the reads are naturally evolving. very odd

Go on

[Menalque]

menalque seems very aware of the gamestate he's playing in, which is good for town but better for scum. i ~think~ that's nai but i can't be sure

Also go on

[Menalque]

VOTE: kerset

L-1

[Menalque]

If anyone lolhammers before osuka responds to me it’s a scumclaim

[Menalque]

intent

Welcome back.

How was climbing?

Thanks, and it was really good! Well, like, I didn’t do great but it was very cool getting to go outside and I didn’t get toooo frustrated at myself overall

[Menalque]

@Mod why have I been prodded but Kerset hasn’t? DOUBLE STANDARD.

this is pretty town

throwing out thoughts that aren't quite polished gets townpoints

scum are appearance focused

I think this is only somewhat true tbh, and is far too individually variable to be any sort of reliable

[Menalque]

@Mod why have I been prodded but Kerset hasn’t? DOUBLE STANDARD.

because kerset has been posting in the scum PT but you haven’t duh doy

[Menalque]

Okay so like I think I’m roughly at

Teacher - townlean
IV
Shelly
Bob

Ydrasse - nulltown

Kerset - null
Andres
NDmath


Saudade - scumlean
Osuka

Plusjoy - scum
T-swizzle

mena how did you progress from null!kerset to scum!kerset?

Saudade went up a lot and I’m not as sure on any of plus/t-swizzle/osuka as he seems to be on kerset, I wouldn’t say I’m locked on scum!kerset but with a pool of (osuka>plus, kerset, NDmath> t-swizzle) I’m p fine compromising

Also if kerset flips scum i think that’s probably clearing for saudade bc I don’t /think/ he’d start bussing his buddy from like pg3 all the way through to the guillo, although I do need to check that scumgame he had with skitt again bc I feel like he played really well there

[Menalque]

please don't ignore me

I'm interested in the readshift and E-1 since it feels a bit out of place

Was literally writing a response to u fam

[Menalque]

lmfao

mena this isn't MD we can talk about reads postgame

Well, no, this is relevant bc if you’re using it as a general tell and it’s not valid it’s going to throw off your reads?

[Menalque]

How strongly do you think t-swizzle is scum, plus?

[Menalque]

OK, shotgun readslist time after re-glossing the 30ish pages. please feel free to poke at it -- being forced to verbalize it may help refine it, but Im not willing to make myself do that work

Teach
Andres Bob Mena
Shelley Ydrasse Kerset
****Plusjoyed IV***** -- I need more reasoned takes on this line. I have had conflicting pings and havent landed on one I like. I think I like IV better of the two, but dont have a personality sense
Saud Osuka NDMath
Swifty
VOTE: swift

Is this still accurate, teacher?

[Menalque]

if kerset is red i think osuka is town
i don't see scum osuka not pursuing another wagon while his scum bud dies day 1
same for teacher but to a lesser extent

Hmmmm

[Menalque]

also I dont get how you placed bob as top TR (were they ascetic claim? it's almost midnight and I can't think straight)

pedit: shady is anti-town but town could feasibly be shady.

Nah that was ND

[Menalque]

if kerset is red i think osuka is town
i don't see scum osuka not pursuing another wagon while his scum bud dies day 1
same for teacher but to a lesser extent

Is this pinging anyone else

[Menalque]

Holy mother of god how am I, king of making people pedit, getting pedited like 4 times in a row??

[Menalque]

Is this pinging anyone else

scum radar isn't going squeak from that

Yeah but like, if kerset reds then it’s a very questionable post bc I think osuka has considerable partner equity with kerset

[Menalque]

Like if kerset!scum then that’s one slot that I think is +scum trying to throw down pre-emptive cover for another slot

If I die tonight pls guillo in (plus, osuka) tomorrow regardless of flip today

[Menalque]

Is this pinging anyone else

scum radar isn't going squeak from that

Yeah but like, if kerset reds then it’s a very questionable post bc I think osuka has considerable partner equity with kerset

And like, the attempt to give osuka cred in the case of a kerset!redflip is very weak which makes it an even more ??? post

[Menalque]

I think if kerset greens then prob saudade still town? And t-swizzle prob was scum after all

[Menalque]

Go to bed shelly

[Menalque]

^i mean that in a nice way, if unclear

[Menalque]

why don't ya vote me then?
i'd prefer your vote on me rather than kerset so we can get an elim from someone i sr today instead

...huh?

[Menalque]

Is something still cryptic if it just doesn’t make sense either way?

[Menalque]

Wait what happened?

[Menalque]

If kerset flips red the partners are osuka and

teacher

plusjoy

[Menalque]

Oh lol

Okay, well done saudade

[Menalque]

I shall acknowledge your brilliance more often in future

[Menalque]

Wait

[Menalque]

Wait

DON’T

What

I’m just trying to decide if this does definitely spew plus/osuka as the others?

[Menalque]

Andres being lowkey weird tbh

[Menalque]

Awwww yis finally a pagetop for daddy

[Menalque]

wow good job you gamethrowed to satisfy saude ego, suck to be you bc you lost doctor by not giving me chance to claim. At least 10 players in mafiascum will learn how valueable independent thought is.

Hmmm

[Menalque]

also mena i’m filing for emancipation after that one

Sorry that’s illegal in this state

[Menalque]

oh, it wasn’t a hammer?

[Menalque]

VOTE: plusJOYED

VOTE: Tayl0r

?

[Menalque]

the next person to say "a pagetop for daddy" is getting a modkill

[Menalque]

Kerset are you gated at all?

[Menalque]

Also Saudade WHY! You Unvoted around there but didn’t say anything after saying it had been fruitful and then re-voted.

Is this English I’m so confused

[Menalque]

I’m not saying I want you to claim what it is if you do have one, I just want you to simply claim gated or not gated

[Menalque]

a pagetop for this daddy

Well done king

[Menalque]

UNVOTE:

I’m actually not certain if doc fits with a setup with ascetic and miller? But like maybe if gated, but ehhhhh idk

[Menalque]

I feel like if kerset is town then one of (ND, Andres) is actually probably scum

[Menalque]

I skimmed since I was last here and I’m out but it is fucking insane to suggest that we flip IV > plus imo

[Menalque]

And frankly idk if I believe kerset’s claim although i do wanna see what saudade’s thinking bc I think he’s prob still town either way

[Menalque]

who’s scum when I flip green, mena?

Osuka is the individual slot that’s most likely to be scum imo

What is your reasoning for plus being town? I straight up can’t remember, I’m p sure I asked you this before but idk if you didn’t answer or if I just can’t remember what you said

Idk I think there is a high concentration of scum in (osuka, plus, kerset, NDmath) atp

[Menalque]

I skimmed since I was last here and I’m out but it is fucking insane to suggest that we flip IV > plus imo

what???
did you not see what IV said?

I don’t see a scumslip?

[Menalque]

Also, scumslips end up being actually scum like, a very small % of the time and IV has otherwise been very townie all day? Like I didn’t think I’d have to defend him because I didn’t think things would end up so wildly swinging into something so fucking dumb

[Menalque]

who’s scum when I flip green, mena?

Osuka is the individual slot that’s most likely to be scum imo

What is your reasoning for plus being town? I straight up can’t remember, I’m p sure I asked you this before but idk if you didn’t answer or if I just can’t remember what you said

Idk I think there is a high concentration of scum in (osuka, plus, kerset, NDmath) atp

why is iv town?

Give me a hot second and I’ll towncase him

[Menalque]

saudade’s thinking

Didn't you disagree with him earlier? I don't get your views. Do you find him as authority or not?

And frankly idk if I believe kerset’s claim although i do wanna see what saudade’s thinking bc I think he’s prob still town either way

that's a big scumping from me
you trying to elim me so iv has 1 more day to live? and are that sure on suadade town? after you disagreed with him
peddit kerset agrees with me here i think

(1) yes, i did, that doesn’t mean that I think he’s any less town now and I think the level of engagement he’s had all day is strongly town indicative regardless of my initial worries there

(2) @plus specifically: hombre, I’ve been calling you an above average equity scumslot like all day, and I’ve been p clear that I TR IV all day too. The fact that you’re trying to spin this into me trying to “buy IV one extra day” is hella scummy

(3) lol imagine thinking I’d interact with a scumbuddy like this

[Menalque]

This is painful to skim. The hammer test was super obvious to me so I’m not sure how nobody else knew what softing on. It seemed like several were intentionally playing along.

On tonight to actually y’all.

It like, actually did get me but when I realised I decided to play along, and frankly it’s why I find people taking kerset’s fakehammer claim as gospel truth very off rn

[Menalque]

smh I cannot believe I’m actually having to do this

I could prob find more but honestly this ought to be enough

why is ydrasse town? And why is osuka less likely to be town than osuka

I do not understand anything

Pedit: that was aimed at ydrasse not you

From an early stage I feel light mindmelding in a good way, in that ydrasse was getting unwarranted TRs and IV wanted to check those and understand where this was coming from

can you reword the second part of that post im trying to follow it and it feels a bit like word salad rn ):

im basically just asking why you think scum wouldn’t point out “specific things” early on

your justification of “because it limits their options” felt shaky to me because I don’t think pointing out specific things “limits their options” more than any normal read

hopefully that makes a little more sense sorry I word vomit a lot

Actively seeking to communicate with others and make sure he’s understood and able to have an open exchange

VOTE: innocentvillager is obvscumming

I have mixed feelings about this vote

This is here because again, mindmeld

ydrasse is town I agree

Already having a good progression here: doesn’t try to use his questioning of the early TR(s?) on ydrasse to position against her, instead conceded that she’s town (I still think this was too early but I’ll let it slide)

sorry I only meant to quote the second one 267

VOTE: Kerset

Putting pressure on the main wagon and helping to move the gamestate forward

here’s another readslist


plusjoyed is my only real TR
ydrasse is second, small townread
Shelly is a townlean (third)
bob, osuka are weak townleans

v slight scumlean on Kerset, Saudade but they’re probably not partners

This is not a readslist of someone trying to play to the crowd imo when it would be much easier for scum!IV to just call plus scum. I think he’s wrong, but his entire approach there is of someone genuinely trying to sort the slot, not of someone looking to...??? What the fuck is IV even doing in his approach to plus if he’s scum?

Taylor might be a townlean
Menalque might be a scumlean

I don’t think IV knows me well enough (I’m not sure anyone other than teacher does, maybe bob/ydrasse) that the best way to pocket me is to start off scumreading me a little bit but then walk it back, which makes me think this is also not someone looking to play it safe as frankly scum

pretty rarely

try to push me as scum on D1 and will normally wait until I’m wrong on something and in a weaker position. It’s possible IV is unaware of this too, but at the very least he prob saw my banner and I feel like generally when you see anyone with a banner you think a little more on how you’re going to approach that slot

i don’t think I’m “agreeable” or sheepy idk why this label has been slapped on me

I have reads a lot earlier than I say them publicly sometimes

idk how much I vibed with Shellys actual thought process but I agreed with ydrasse and plusjoyed town as my main reads at the time

Ydrasse has a... massive presence this game which seems genuine and the one scumgame ive seen of her was anything but that

I think this is a good explanation for how he got to his ydrasse read despite me being much less confident in town!her atp

i am on menas side here those do feel different

It is not anti town to claim ascetic

It is obviously is to claim mason and that was a lol claim

mena your vibes feel off....... are you scum?

i feel this kinda

I like him engaging with me, trying to work through what he’s feeling about me/plus and not just siding with the person he’s townleaning, and again, I like him not trying to buddy me

ehh I don’t know how to feel about mena slot

it feels postury but I can’t really explain why thsi doesn’t come from town

{plus, ydrasse, menal}
{shelly, andres}
{Taylor}
{ndmath, bob, kerset, Saudade, osuka}
{teacher}

But like this feels like a natural progression from him realising that I’m just town and that basing a read on vibes that he can’t really articulate prob isn’t a great way to form a read after I question him on it

VOTE: kerset ok

Again, trying to be active and drive the game forward

let’s keep him at E-2 for a bit

Something that is actively proved by this post on his mindset around the vote

[Menalque]

I don’t think of myself as “fucking dumb”. I’m not a great Mafia player by any means. But I’m not dumb. And it is clear as day that there’s something wrong with the post that was highlighted and the immediate follow up.

Sorry, I tend to swing into hyperbole when I feel strongly about something

Didn’t mean to insult you or comment on your intelligence, I think you’re a very on it player but I think you’re way off here

[Menalque]

Also, scumslips end up being actually scum like, a very small % of the time and IV has otherwise been very townie all day? Like I didn’t think I’d have to defend him because I didn’t think things would end up so wildly swinging into something so fucking dumb

C’mon Menalque you don’t have to call it “fucking dumb” if you want to defend it. The thing about it is - you’re arguing something in general (which I agree with btw) instead of focusing on the specifics of what is being claimed as the slip. IV confirmed that they were probing in a way that is

decidedly anti-Town

, and they wrote something down that was clearly meant in conversation. IV defended it as conversation with themselves, but c’mon how is that believable? There’s no way you could argue that the probing per se is not anti-Town. So instead of arguing the specific point, you’re dismissing the whole thing, saying that Scumslips aren’t all that useful. Well, this defense is not striking me as particularly convincing in this instance.

Why is it implausible to ask about hating as town? When like (1) that’s what I did and I know I’m town (2) there are legit reasons that I’d rather not get into but relating to an ascetic claim that warrant probing a doc claim